This very special episode is in celebration of Sanctity of Life Sunday. Listen in as Entrusted Ministries Director and longtime Christian journalist Tom Strode discuss the biblical basis for the dignity of life, the historicity of this debate, and what we can do as believers to live this principle out.

They're the joyful agains our children shout on the swings, the

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exhausting agains of cooking and laundry,

and the difficult agains of discipline.

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So much of what we do

as mothers is on repeat.

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So what if we woke up with clarity,

knowing which agains we were called

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to, and went to bed believing we

are faithful in what matters most?

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We believe God's word is

the key to untangle from the

7

confusion and overwhelm we feel.

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Let's look up together to embrace a

motherhood full of freedom and joy.

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Happy sanctity of life Sunday

and welcome to this very special

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episode of the again, podcast.

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I'm your host, Stephanie Hickox.

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And today we'll be listening in on a very

important discussion between Tom Strode

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and Betsy Corning on the sanctity of life

and the dignity of every human being.

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Before we begin to listen in on

this truly informative dialogue.

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I want to share a little bit about Mr.

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Stroads impressive resume.

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Tom Strode has worked many years in

Christian journalism and public policy.

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He recently retired from the Baptist

press as the Washington DC bureau chief.

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And he held that position for 32 years.

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He has served in Christian

journalism for 40 years.

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And was also a correspondent for the

ethics and religious liberties commission.

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Or E R L C as we'll refer to it here.

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And though I could tell you

much more about his resume.

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I think what others have to say about his

character is even more impressive to hear.

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One man said it is not an

overstatement to describe.

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Tom is one of the greatest writers

in the history of Baptist journalism.

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Former E R L C.

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Vice-president called Mr.

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Strode.

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One of the finest man, he has ever known.

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His example of gracious faithfulness

has influenced many Christian

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men and women working in DC.

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He said he could always count on

Tom to search out the whole truth of

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an issue and to report it clearly.

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And a longtime bioethics consultant

referred to Tom as the consummate

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professional, competent adept and

ethical, and a giant of personal and

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professional integrity in every way.

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Our listeners know Betsy Corning

as the author of entrusted

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with the child's heart.

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And she has been praying for Roe V.

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Wade to be overturned

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for almost 50 years and this past June.

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Her prayers and the prayers of many

faithful followers of Christ and pro-life

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advocates had their hopes realized.

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But we want to make it clear.

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This isn't about debating.

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This is about embracing God's word and the

truth that reveals and living that out.

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That our love of the Lord would

extend outside our front door.

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And that we would be the hands

and feet of Christ to this world.

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And that inside our homes.

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Knowing the truth that God truly

cares for every human life.

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would energize and renew

us to care for our family.

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Well, and to know that God has

a purpose for every human life.

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May you be blessed, strengthened,

and encouraged to wholeheartedly

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foul and the truths of God's word.

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And may the Lord reveal to you

how you can practically live

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that out in your home and beyond.

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Thanks for listening.

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Betsy: Hello, Tom.

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Welcome.

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Tom: Well, thank you.

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It's a pleasure to be here, Betsy.

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I'm so grateful for the Ministry

of Entrusted and it's kind of you

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to enable me to be a part of this.

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Betsy: Well, in our discussion so

far, it's been very interesting to

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see all of your insight and wisdom

about what's happened over, really,

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not just your part as a reporter.

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in the last 40 years, but

just through the centuries.

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And we would like to update our listeners

on really what's been happening in this

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whole issue of the sanctity of life

and abortion and other related issues.

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Hopefully it serves to really

enlighten some people that.

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For me, I wasn't up to date on a lot of

the things that I've been reading lately.

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And I feel that often the

public legs behind what's really

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happening behind the scenes.

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So hopefully this will be helpful.

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I know it's going to be deep and I

know it's going to be eye opening.

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So we really thank

everybody for listening.

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We do believe in the Bible and

the authority of God's word.

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So.

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Tom, let's start with talking about,

how the Bible addresses the issue of

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abortion and the sanctity of life.

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Tom: Well, thank you, Betsy.

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And you're right.

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I mean, that is where we need to start.

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But the Bible's.

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picture of life, human life, it's

worth really is established quickly in

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the very first chapter of God's word.

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And Genesis 1, 27 describes God creating

human beings and the first human being

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after he created other creatures.

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And in this case, it says that, so

God created man in his own image.

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In the image of God, he created him.

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Male and female, he created them.

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And so we see, unlike the other creatures

that are created by God mankind, human

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beings, who it says he made male and

female, were created in his image.

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And he confirms that in Genesis

chapter nine, after the flood that

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brought judgment upon the earth,

except for Noah and his family

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and the animals that were spared.

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God tells Noah there that he's

going to require a reckoning

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for the taking of a man's life.

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And in the reason he gives in

in verse 6 of Genesis 9 is for

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God made man in his own image.

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And so he's saying that capital

punishment is Is a result of murder

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of the taking of a human being's life.

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And so that provides basically the

umbrella for the Bible's teaching on the

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dignity and sanctity of all human life.

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And then when you consider

as we are at this time and on

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this podcast the unborn child.

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We see that the Bible uses, in some

cases, language for the, in its

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original languages, for the unborn child

that it also uses for young infants.

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Luke is maybe the best example.

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There's the word that's

used for baby there.

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Brephos is how we would translate it

from the Greek language to describe

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John the Baptist when he's still

in his mother Elizabeth's womb.

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But then it also is used, that's in

Luke chapter 1, in Luke chapter 2 that

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same word is used to describe the baby

Jesus in the manger on two occasions.

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And then Luke 18 That same word is

used to describe infants and babes

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who are brought to Jesus by their

parents for him to touch them.

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And so there are other ways in which

the Bible affirms the dignity of the

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unborn child as a member of the whole

human family that has human dignity

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and sanctity, because it's made, or he

or she, Is made in the image of God.

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Betsy: And not only made

in the image of God.

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But life begins.

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I think that's a big question

that society has raised, is

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when does life actually begin?

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And of course the Bible tells us

that life begins at conception.

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So and we can see some verses obviously

the whole Psalm 139, which David is

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speaking there about how the Lord formed

his Fashioned his unformed substance

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and you know all his days were known

before there was even one of them.

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So we understand that too and as

believers we we embrace that understanding

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that life begins at conception.

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So we were discussing briefly a book

that is now out of print called Third

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Time Around and that book sort of talks

about Nothing new under the sun, right?

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That this is the third time around there's

been this major push for abortion and

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can you just briefly tell us, I guess

that book was written by a pastor, George

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Grant, and he actually lives in Franklin.

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Tell us a little bit about his book and

why he wrote it and the history behind it.

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Right, and that I think is really

important for us all to consider as

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Christians in the 21st century that this

viewpoint of the church based on scripture

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and the church's ministry in the pro

life arena has been around for centuries.

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Tom: Um,

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George Grant in this book Talks about

the fact that infanticide and abortion

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have existed through the centuries, but

so has the church's pro life ministry.

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He cites the a document known as the

Didache, which is subtitled, The Teaching

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of the Twelve Apostles to the Nations,

that was came, came into existence around

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the turn of the very first century AD.

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And in it, The Didache says there

are two ways, one of life and one

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of death, and there is a great

difference between the two ways.

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And later it says, You shall

not murder a child by abortion,

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nor kill a child at birth.

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So we're talking about early, early

church history, and this viewpoint that

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the church held that abortion was murder,

and infanticide is murder as well.

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And so he traces this history and

one of the people he focuses on in

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one of his chapters in the, about the

early church was Basil of Caesarea.

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He was the Bishop of Caesarea

in the fourth century AD.

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And he taught and worked and led his

church to oppose abortion and infanticide

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and to develop pro life ministries.

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At this time in the Roman Empire

families could just abandon

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children after they were born if

they decided they didn't want them.

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The father could make a decision

whether that child would continue

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to be a member of the family and

they had these walls in Caesarea.

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Where they would expose the

children and they would die there.

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And and he and others, the deacons

in his church, went out one night

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and actually tore down the walls

to demonstrate they were not going

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to stand for that at this time.

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And then, through the centuries, the

church has continued to have this pro

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life view and this view of the dignity

of the unborn child and all human beings,

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not only in starting ministries to

vulnerable people, starting hospitals.

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But continuing to support the pro

life cause for pre born children.

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He talks about in this book the missionary

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When people like Amy Carmichael William

Carey, David Livingston, and others,

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Opposed abortion and infanticide and

ministered to those women in need

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as part of their gospel ministry.

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And so what we do now as the

church is just building on the

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heritage we have, which is based

on obviously the word of God.

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And I thought your point about

David writing in Psalm 139 is, is.

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A good illustration of another way in

which the Bible affirms the dignity

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and sanctity of a pre born child.

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He not only talks about being formed

in his mother's womb, but Others write

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similar things as well in the Bible.

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Jeremiah, Isaiah, and the Apostle Paul

all talked about God's claim on their

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lives when they were still in the womb.

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And so, we really have

a wonderful heritage.

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It's a heritage that goes against the

culture that we live in now and that

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Christians have lived in in the past.

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Betsy: And what a wonderful thing to

think about our heritage, that the Lord

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has created each of us in his image for

his purposes, and he knows that purpose.

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I think that ought to really encourage

every one of us, that God has a purpose.

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For our lives.

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And I hope that our children

grow up knowing that and knowing

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that they're, they're actually

very special and beloved by God.

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In fact, it says in Ezekiel,

all souls belong to God.

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And I really love that verse also.

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You mentioned here that the

father could dispose of his child,

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sell the child into slavery.

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It was my understanding from some recent

research that this was a lifelong thing.

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And I was really taken by that.

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The Bible is so contrary to life being

cheap or insignificant or not meaningful.

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It definitely has purpose, and that's

a part of the sanctity of life also.

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You mentioned some of these

people that didn't just work for

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abortion, but they also worked

for treating people in hospitals.

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Give us an example of how The

sanctity of life really spreads

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into other areas of life.

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It's really not just about the abortion

issue, but it's about the dignity

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of life in several different arenas.

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Tom: No, you're exactly right, Betsy,

and I think that is really important.

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A lot of the focus for me early when

my pro life convictions and efforts

207

was just focused on the unborn and,

and have to realize based on Genesis

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1, if nothing else, that that statement

that every Human being is made in

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the image of God, that the very first

person was made in the image of God.

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It covers everything, everyone, and it's

not governed by the health of a person,

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the age of a person, the condition of a

person, the skin color or ethnicity of

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a person, the gender of a person, even.

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It's all encompassing, and so when we

think of other Ministries are other

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people in different situations other

than the pre born whether they're

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people who have Down syndrome or other

conditions, whether there are people

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who are poor, whether they're terminally

ill, whether they're elderly, whether

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they have, Alzheimer's and dementia, and

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trafficking victims refugees, immigrants,

everyone is made in the image of God and

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we, in relating to everyone, even our

opponents on this issue and other issues,

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we need to remember that person is made

in the image of God and is deserving.

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of protection in life, but also

respect as an image bearer.

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Betsy: Yes, I agree, and I think we're

going to come back to some of those

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issues to some degree, but let's go

back to where we are right now in

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this country because it's, it's a big,

some big changes are going on, and of

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course when that happens, then we're

going to have some big challenges.

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So, As far as Roe v.

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Wade goes, I mean, I would like our

listeners to really understand how

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did this third time around happen,

and when did it kind of start?

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It sort of formulated earlier

than the 70s when the Roe v.

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Wade decision was made, but can you

give us some background on that?

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And, and who were Roe, and who were

Wade, and how did this all come to be?

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Tom: Okay, sure.

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You know, abortion was not outlawed

by the states at the beginning

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of the American Republic, but in

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actually enacted a ban on abortion.

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And after the Civil War a, kind of

a coalition, even if they weren't

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working together so much, of churches,

denominations, doctors, and even

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the early women's rights advocates,

were working to protect human life.

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Some of the, we, some women, Who are

considered early feminists like Susan B.

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Anthony and Elizabeth Stady Canton.

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were pro life.

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They weren't working to give

women the right to abortion.

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They saw those children, unborn

children, as deserving of protection.

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And so by the 1880s, all states

in America at that time had

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some form of abortion ban.

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Now they may have different from state

to state, but largely abortion was

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banned in the 1880s in the states.

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Well, you jump forward about 80 years

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Some states legalized abortion.

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Most notably, New York.

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New York State did not have

a residency requirement.

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So, women would travel from other states

to where their, where abortion was

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illegal, where they live, to New York.

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To have an abortion.

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And in fact, in the 1972, the year before

abortion was legalized in this country,

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more than 100, 000 women traveled just

to New York City to have abortions.

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And then everything changed

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That was the date of the Roe v.

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Wade decision.

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In that decision, the Supreme

Court justices voted 7 2, to strike

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down all state bans on abortion.

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So what they did was wipe out every

state restriction on abortion.

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They decided that their, the reasoning

was that there was a right to privacy

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in the constitution and that right

to privacy protected a woman's

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right to choose to have an abortion.

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On the same day, There was

a companion decision, also

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approved by 7 2, known as Doe v.

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Bolton.

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And in that decision, the court legalized

abortion for women after the viability

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of the child for health reasons.

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And those health reasons,

they said, Included physical,

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emotional, psychological,

familial, and the woman's age.

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Anything that was relevant

to her well being.

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So what ended up happening was that

made abortion just an expansive right.

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What I think was rightfully

called abortion on demand.

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And and so for the next almost

50 years, it's estimated that

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63 million Unborn children were

aborted legally in this country.

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and obviously there's opposition to that.

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Out of that, the pro life movement

was already there, but it really began

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to develop after the Roe decision.

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And a year later, the first

March for Life was held.

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It's been held every year

since then in Washington, D.

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C., and was again

yesterday in Washington, D.

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C.

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Tens of thousands of

people gathered together.

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To march for the sanctity of human life.

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Betsy: So, who was Roe, specifically?

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Who was that woman?

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Tom: Well, those who were trying to

overturn Texas's abortion law, at least.

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And as it turned out, they had

accomplished overturning all state bans.

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We're looking for a woman

to provide the test case.

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And so, Jane Rowe, as she was known in

the case, was actually Norma McCorvey.

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This became known later.

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She was a woman who was interested

in having abortion, agreed to

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be a part of the test case.

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And and so, Wade was Henry

Wade, who was the District

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Attorney for the Dallas County.

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And so they challenged the abortion

rights lawyers, challenged the

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Texas law on behalf of Jane Roe.

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And and it went all the

way to the Supreme Court.

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The court obviously agreed with them.

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Maybe beyond their wildest dreams, I

don't know, in what they actually ruled.

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And it received criticism

even from liberals.

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Lawyers after that.

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There were some lawyers.

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legal scholars like Lawrence Tribe of

Harvard Law School, like Ruth Bader

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Ginsburg, who was a women's rights

lawyer at that time, but then she became

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Supreme Court Justice in the 1990s.

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And they were critical, not of

the ultimate decision, they agreed

310

with abortion rights, but they were

critical of the court's reasoning in

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coming to the conclusion they did.

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In fact, Ruth Bader Ginsburg said it

was sweeping, and it was really doctor

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centered rather than woman centered.

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Betsy: Very interesting.

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Well, we understand that not

everybody is going to think of

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human life the same that we do.

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We understand that we're presenting

here the Christian worldview, that

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we believe that God created each

individual in his image and, and has.

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Worth placed on their lives.

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And so we protect that life,

but we understand that there are

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people that don't believe that.

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And because they don't believe that

that has implications for life also.

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One of the things that I've learned

recently, which was so interesting

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was that if you don't believe that

human life was created by God or in

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his image, then your explanation.

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for the purpose of life or the

beginning of life changes dramatically.

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And if we all evolved and if we all

evolved from the same matter or material

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as animals or any other living organism,

well then we have something in common

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with them and we are no better than them.

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So that is the new thing that is

out now that I've heard is being

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called a Speciesist or Speciesism

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a speciesist is somebody who believes

that human life is superior to the life of

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any other life, even the life of animals.

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Well PETA, which is the acronym

for the People's Ethical Treatment

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of Animals, defines speciesism

as the human held belief that all

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other animal species are inferior.

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Speciesist thinking involves Considering

animals who have their own desires, needs,

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and complex life as means to an human end.

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And so, it was coined in 1970 by Richard

Ryder in a privately published pamphlet.

340

And then that idea was carried

on from Peter Singer and

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popularized in Animal Liberation.

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So the main idea there is because

we've all evolved and we're

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really all the same matter.

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We shouldn't think of ourselves people

as more Highly evolved or more special

345

than animals or other living organisms.

346

So when you think about that, you

see the implication of that kind of

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thinking that a baby isn't really

how we regard a baby, a preborn

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baby, or a person that's infirmed.

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What happens is we start thinking

of how we can constantly invoke

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ourselves into the evolutionary

process that they believe.

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taking place and constantly improving it.

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And so we get this whole new arena

or area of bioethics and biogenetics.

353

But before we get back to

that once I was looking up

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the leading cause of death in babies.

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And they don't even mention abortion

because it's so vastly higher number than

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any other cause of death in an infant that

they, they just don't even include it.

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So that being interesting, somebody

actually did make an attempt to do

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some research and include that and

was obviously completely Prevented

359

from getting that information out.

360

But we should say along those lines

that abortion is really under recorded.

361

And I think that the numbers are much

higher than the numbers that we have.

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I've heard higher numbers.

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I'm sure that, that you have too, but

along that lines, it's become pandemic.

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It's circulating around the world.

365

And as we know, the one child policy.

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That was, took place for

about 25 years in China.

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China boasts having aborted close

to 400 million children, babies.

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So we see this not just as an issue

in the United States, but a global

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issue of how people view human life.

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And we have the understanding that

they're not necessarily going to agree

371

with us because they're coming from

a completely different worldview.

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So we just want to make sure

that people understand that.

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Tom: I'd be glad to comment on what you

were saying there especially at the start.

374

There are obviously people

that disagree with us.

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And and we as Christians are going

to go come from the perspective

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of what does God's word say.

377

But, you know, some people try to

just say, we're trying to impose

378

our religion on other people and and

make religion an opponent of science.

379

And they say, well, we believe in

science, but the science really

380

confirms what the Bible has taught.

381

A child at the moment of conception

has his or her whole genetic code.

382

That's not going to change.

383

Scott Klusendorf, who's the head of

the Life Training Institute, has an

384

acronym known as SLED that he uses

to describe the difference, the, the

385

fact that really there's no difference

between an unborn child and a born

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child based on whether they have.

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worthy life.

388

And SLED is Size, Level of Development,

Environment, and Degree of Dependency.

389

And he says, you know,

your size doesn't matter.

390

Yes, an unborn child is smaller

than a born child, or a child

391

who's older, or a human being.

392

But that doesn't make that

person the size of a person.

393

Doesn't determine whether he or she is

worthy of protection and the level of

394

development, yes, but a five year old

isn't as developed as a 25 year old.

395

So, we're not going to say, well, that

the five year old's life is not worth

396

as much as a 25 year old's environment.

397

Does it make a difference if a child

is in the environment of his mother's

398

womb as opposed to Maybe several minutes

later, being outside his mother's

399

womb, does that mean that he or she

is unworthy of life and protection?

400

In degree of dependency

I can see in the future.

401

I am going to be, could be

really dependent on other

402

people to continue in my life.

403

A newborn child for months is, and

with years really, is so dependent

404

on his or her mother and father

and to, for almost everything.

405

And people with dementia, people

with debilitating diseases.

406

Can be dependent.

407

Does that mean now we're not worthy?

408

Well, it's not a matter

of our quality of life.

409

It's the fact that we

have dignity in our life.

410

Steph: That's part one of this.

411

Very stimulating conversation.

412

And part two will be coming shortly.

413

In case this episode has brought about.

414

Feelings of regret or remorse.

415

For any acts in your past.

416

I

417

just

418

Steph: want to remind you

of what God's word says.

419

If we confess our sins, he is faithful

and righteous to forgive us our sins.

420

And to cleanse us from

all unrighteousness.

421

That's fun in first, John one nine.

422

As Betsy says in interested, why

carry something around with you every

423

day that Jesus has died to forgive.

424

Is his sacrifice or forgiveness

too small for your sin?

425

It is not.

426

Betsy will touch on this in

part two, a little bit more.

427

Whatever our regrets are in life.

428

The Lord.

429

Is bigger than it all.

430

And his forgiveness..

431

Extends to our deepest sins.

432

.

Thank you for listening.

433

And keep caring for those

image bearers in your home.

434

We know how hard you work.

435

And the Lord certainly does too.

436

We know you're busy, Mama, so

we are truly grateful you joined

437

us for this episode of Again.

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If you're looking for more information

about building your home on the

439

foundation of Jesus Christ, head to www.

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EntrustedMinistries.

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com to learn more about our study for

moms, Entrusted with a Child's Heart.

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This scripture saturated study

has blessed families around the

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world, and we want it for you, too.

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Before you go, I want to pray

this benediction over you

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from 2 Thessalonians 1, 11 12.

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We're rooting for you.

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To this end, we always pray for you,

that our God may make you worthy of His

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calling, and may fulfill every resolve

for good, and every work of faith by

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His power, so that the name of our Lord

Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in

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Him, according to the grace of our God.

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And the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Amen.

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Until we meet again.