Welcome back to ADHD-ish! In this episode, host Diann Wingert sits down with her client Steph Cotrell for a candid and relatable discussion about what it really means to build—and rebuild—a business when you have ADHD traits and life throws you curveballs. 

Originally hired to help Steph Cotrell grow and scale her successful business, Diann quickly uncovered some uncomfortable truths about her business model, specifically how her notion of collaboration revealed a lack of boundaries, which led to burnout. 

Their coaching journey took an unexpected turn as Steph was faced with redefining her work, grappling with exhaustion, and eventually reshaping her business to prioritize authenticity, personal connection, and family in the wake of a heartbreaking loss.

Together, they explore the challenges of managing emotional labor, the reality of ADHD-driven blind spots, and the courage it takes to rethink your path when everything changes. 

If you've ever felt caught between ambition and overwhelm or questioned how your neurodivergence shapes your entrepreneurial journey, this episode is for you. 

Here are 3 key takeaways from this conversation:

Scaling “as-is” can scale your problems, not just your profits: Before trying to grow, pause to check if your foundation—relationships, workload, boundaries—truly supports the life you want.

• Give yourself permission to redefine success: It’s not all-or-nothing. You can reshape business relationships and paths to fit changing needs, values, and energy levels.
• Clarity fuels action: The sooner you move from overthinking to taking action (even messy, uncertain steps), the faster you learn, adapt, and build the business—and life—that truly work for you.

Mic Drop Moment: 

"You don't have to be the glue holding all of this together.  If you enjoy working with them, work with them, and if you don't, don't."

Connect with Steph Cottrell: 

Website: https://www.blueelephantcreative.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bluelecreative/

How Steph discovered me: 

ADDItude Magazine webinar:  “How to Build a Business That Works for Your ADHD Brain” 

Want to hear more Client Success Stories?  Click here for the custom playlist 

Is it time to redefine your success as a business owner with ADHD? 

I have two openings for one-on-one coaching engagements, starting in January.  The first step is scheduling a free consultation where we talk about your goals and see if we are a good fit.  Click here to book yours now.

And, don’t forget to leave a comment on Spotify (I personally respond to every one) or leave a review so more ADHD-ish business owners can find THE podcast full of real talk and real solutions for neurodiverse business brains.

© 2025 ADHD-ish Podcast. Intro music by Ishan Dincer / Melody Loops  / Outro music by Vladimir /  Bobi Music / All rights reserved. 

G: Sounds like a plan. It was definitely a twist in the story I don't think any of us saw coming.

H: You came with a very successful business that you were very fortunate to have. Repeat business, referral business, and you were collaborating with other people who I like to think of this as a business, a team without walls. So, you have your own business, and the other people you were collaborating with also had their own businesses. But I quickly began to discover that instead of what I would call a true collaboration, you were the one bringing in the business and doing most of the work, doing most of the marketing, doing all of the selling, and really kind of feeding work to these other collaborators like a mama bird feeds her baby. So when that became apparent on, I think, our second conversation, we started having some uncomfortable questions and answers. What do you remember about that?

So not only was I getting the clients and the work in, I was having to see every aspect of every piece of the work all the way through to the end of the project. And it just, you know, as we talked more and you asked more questions, I just kind of realized that, like, oh hey, oh, I’m doing all the work. And I'm only getting like a third of the benefit of that. So maybe I want to pause here and take a little think and figure out, you know what do I see coming next with this collaborative team.

H: Yep. And, you know, it's one of the reasons why I do a very thorough job of screening my clients because I know that there are going to be some uncomfortable truths that are going to be surfaced. We all have blind spots. We all have biases. And the vast majority of us, and us, I mean entrepreneurs, small business owners, creatives, independent professionals with ADHD traits, the vast majority of us have some pretty shitty boundaries. We often give other people more credit than they deserve. We like this idea of, you know, all for one and one for all. We're all row, row, row your boat together.

But when we look a little closer, it's like, wait a minute you're kind of like that kid in middle school who everybody wanted to do the group project with because they knew they could just kick back, you would do all the fricking work and they could share in your A. And that's what came true and what I think was difficult and really to your credit and also our relationship was very new at that point. Like, you had a positive impression of me, seeing me on the Additude magazine webinar and decided to reach out. We had a consultation, we decided to work together. We got started, everything was positive. You were optimistic, I was optimistic. And then I'm like, hey, wait a minute, are we going to I would love to help you scale your business, this is super exciting. You had the right attitude, the right motivation. You were resourceful, resilient. You were ready to do the work.

It was all green lights all the way down the road then I'm like, wait a minute. If we scale this business as it is, we're going to be scaling exhaustion, we're going to be scaling overwhelm, we're going to be scaling fatigue, we're going to be scaling resentment. And what you've been willing to tolerate up until now, which is you doing most of the work, I don't think you were even aware of because you were so used to doing it. And I think I forget what you referred to it, I think you referred to it the day I burst your bubble or something along those lines. And you needed to take a minute, like a couple of weeks to process that, because it changed everything about how you felt, not necessarily about yourself as a business owner, but about those relationships which had gone on for quite a while.

G: Yeah, they were both very lengthy relationships in my life and in my business life. And it was, and you're correct, I do refer to it as the day Diann burst my bubble. It was a shock, really like, I can't. I hung up the phone and I was like, oh wait and it did, it took me a couple weeks to really process through what we had talked about and kind of what you had uncovered, because I couldn't not agree with it.

It was in fact what I was experiencing. And as you said, you know, scaling that business meant scaling my own detriment. And it was like, I don't want to do that like, I want to be on a more positive path and a more stable one moving forward. Because I definitely was feeling all of that burnout and exhaustion from the year prior to where I had essentially doubled the revenue that my company brought in. I didn't get to keep all that because there were two other people involved, but I had worked hard and accomplished that. And I was tired getting all those projects sold and then getting them through.

People that owned their own businesses that were like me. But what I discovered was everyone who owns their own business isn't necessarily like me. So it really kind of became a juxtaposition that I was kind of making up for the slack and lack on that side, even though I wasn't their boss and they weren't my employee and I didn't have to do the day to day management part of it.

H: Yeah, I think you said it's like I unloaded a husband and I acquired two others.

G: Yeah.

H: And I think it's, you know, the truth is there is a lot of emotional labor in the work that we do. Whether you're a coach, a consultant, a service provider, an independent professional, and absolutely if you're a creative. And all the different hats that you wear, you know, there's the creative, there's the administrative, there's whatever marketing you need to do, there's the sales, there's the admin, there's all of that stuff. And let's face it, with ADHD, we struggle with our executive functioning. And that shit gets used up when you're the one who's managing every project and making rain.

You're the one who's going out and beating the bushes and getting, you know, and you're very, very amiable and it's easy for you to develop relationships. But when I think of all the people who've said, I don't want to have a boss, I'm going to start my own thing, but they don't actually want to take responsibility for wearing all of those hats. So finding someone like you who is a genuine solopreneur and is willing to wear all those hats, that's like saying you have your own business of having all the benefits of being an employee, really.

G: It really is, I think in reference to my ex-husband, because I was about a year out of divorce when we started working together. One of the things that I felt like was really emotionally taxing during my marriage was the fact that, you know, my husband essentially put me in the role of you're the only breadwinner. So not only was I now paying my bills and making sure there was food on my table, it's like I'm sharing this now with a whole other person with a whole other set of bills and a whole other mouth to feed. And it just the level of stress and responsibility that that placed on me over the course of my marriage, like, that was one of the very strong contributing factors to why I ended the marriage in the first place.

And I kind of woke up and found myself right back in that position. Because if I'm doing all the selling and I'm the one finding all the clients and all of this, like, I'm essentially the primary breadwinner of this group of business owners. And it's the pressure you don't want to let them down. You don't want to, like, not find business. You don't, you know, want things to fall through the cracks. You don't want the client to be upset. Like, there's just so much emotional charge and all of that and it just exhausting. And I had just left it and I found myself right back in it again.

H: But even though our relationship was pretty new, at that point, you said, I need to take some time and think about this, absofreakinglutely and you did pretty quickly. Because there's actually a grieving process that goes on when we've been working with someone and we realize they're not like me. They're not showing up. I'm just making this big old assumption that this is how I roll as a solopreneur. They're solopreneurs, they are probably the same way. That assumption benefited them at your expense. So you came back two weeks later, you sorted it out, you dealt with the feelings about it, the anger, the disappointment, the hurt, maybe the shame. Like, why didn't I figure this out sooner? But it didn't affect our relationship.

And I honestly felt like that could have gone a totally different way, because sometimes people aren't ready to hear things that happen to fly out of my mouth because I think they're necessary and beneficial. That could have gone really sideways but you had made a commitment to yourself in engaging me in this process, and you thought things through and said, okay, I got to figure this out. I got to decide how I want to think about it and now I'm going to make some changes. Which you came back after two weeks and said, so here's what I've decided. It was really impressive.

G: And I think there's something that you said in that time that really, I think helped it sway one way versus the other, and that was that you weren't saying I couldn't work with these people. You weren't saying that I couldn't collaborate with them. What you were saying was, you don't have to be the glue holding all of this together. Like, if you enjoy working with them work with them and if you don't, don’t. And I think that that permission to just not have to be all or nothing really set the foundation for that time I took to think about it to say, okay, well, what do I want?

Because one of the people I was collaborating with, I've known for a long time. I really actually enjoy working with her a lot. We have a great vibe together and knowing that I could just step back and not have to cut off was just the permission I think I needed to really look at the situation honestly and ask myself, what do I want out of this? Where do I want to be in this relationship and in this sort of co working that we're doing? And I think that helped me just not think, oh, no, Diann told me I can never talk to her again, you know, because that wasn't what you were saying. And so I think by vocalizing that during our last call before I took that time to think, it really opened my mind to the possibility of you can craft what this relationship looks like.

H: Absolutely. I think, you know, sometimes if somebody shows up to a consultation and says, so, I've taken this as far as I can on my own, and now I just need you to tell me what to do, and I'll do it. And I'm like, I will do no such thing, I have raised three children pretty much as a single parent, and I'm not starting over with you. And also, I don't want anybody to be co-dependent on me. You know, like, my goal is, hey, here's what I see, here's how I see it affecting you and I think you have several options. You can continue as you are and maybe just tighten up your boundaries. You can continue in this relationship in a renegotiated way with a new set of conditions.

Or you could say, I think I need to start dialing down on this and building something that doesn't require me to depend on people who are not as dependable as I am. But you're right, I think it's not my responsibility to tell you what to do, because something tells me you've had other people do that, it hasn't gone so well for you, you're like, yeah, just tell me what to do. So you were like, okay, what do I want to do? And that does take some thinking, because most of the time we're just doing what needs to be done and not thinking, well, if I could take this in any direction I want to, what do I want to and you came back with a very clear plan.

G: Yeah. And I think it too, it kind of led into helping support me through the next thing that comes up that we'll talk about. But it really was, you know, the first time that I really took a pause and said what do I want? What do I want to do? What do I want to get out of this business? Because I kind of, I had a 10 year career in marketing and web development before I ever started my business. And so when I kind of segued into my business, I kind of just kept going in my career. And when I had the time and the pause and the question laid before me, it was kind of like, oh, well, I'm just doing these things because I can, but do I really want to? Like where is my passion in the business? Where do I get the most fulfillment out of the work that I'm doing? And that led to some, you know, really interesting clarifications for me as well.

H: That's such a good point, Steph. And I'm really glad you mention it because most people who start their own business start it in the field that they've already been working in right. That it just makes the most sense because you probably already got connections, you might already even have some leads. A lot of people I've worked with, their first clients, once they go out on their own, is a previous employer. So it's what I call a soft landing, you're not like just taking a flying leap off the building and, you know, figuring it out on the way down. You're like, oh no, I'm just kind of transitioning over but most of us are talking about a blind spot. Most of us are completely unaware that with all this steam built up around, I don't want to have a boss anymore, I want to do my own thing. We literally recreate a job where we work more hours for less money and no benefits.

H: Well, we know you know how to do long term relationships. So this is a good thing but not all long term relationships can run on autopilot. Sometimes they need to be revisited so let's dig into after that couple of weeks of, you know, shock and disbelief and you went through the five stages of grieving that the business you thought you had is actually not the business that you had. You came back with a plan that put your ability to be present for your aging parents in a much more flexible and consistent way.

Because after the divorce, you moved, you relocated so that you could be closer to your parents who were getting older and thought, you know, I can scale and grow my business, but that's going to mean more emotional labor and more managing of people and all the headaches that I've already been dealing with for fuck ever. What if I right size the business, depend on fewer people and just make things easier for me to work a more reasonable number of hours and kind of be there, you know, if my dad needs to go to a doctor's appointment or my mom needs help with something, like, I won't think, oh shit, I don't have time for this, I've got client deadlines. I've got this, I've got that. And so but very quickly after you made your new plan, the plot thickened even more.

G: Yeah, it was when I relocated here, it was to be closer to my parents, but both of my older siblings also live here with their spouses so we kind of all congregated back. And in that pause, one of the things that I realized was just, you know, my parents are aging, I wanted to spend this time with my family. I wanted to make those memories while I still can and also have my business be successful and that was very important to me, that balance. And then, you know, I was thinking, 5, 10 years I'm looking at my next plan. I'm gonna have this balanced business, yada, yada, and like you said, have the ability to help my parents when I could.

And then my dad went to the emergency room and it kind of all just spiraled from there. Just unexpectedly, he was not feeling well and it turned out that after a lot of tests and X-rays, he had stage four lung cancer. So it was pretty much a ticking clock down to what's going to happen next. And I mean, I shut my business down like, I still had client projects that I was trying to work on, but I wasn't doing any marketing, I wasn't finding anything new, I was just 100% focused on my family. And going through that experience, I think solidified even more that for me personally, it is incredibly important that I have a balance between work and my family because my dad unfortunately passed away about 54 days after that diagnosis.

And there's apparently just a lot that one has to go through and deal with. And just, you know, it wasn't even me directly it was really my mom going through it and then me trying to be there to support her. And it became even more clear that, like the type of business that I was building had to be amenable to last minute urgent, Mom's calling me at 10am because she's thinking about something and got to work on something. So it kind of almost a business that can be interrupted without me and my ADHD lack of focus getting scattered all over the place. So that's kind of the balance that I've been trying to strike in working with you is what does that business look like.

H: And you know what, I think this one of the reasons why I've been so grateful that you were willing to come on the podcast with me and kind of recreate the story is because I think a lot of people would just think, oh, my God, my life is just going fucking sideways and I cannot think about my business right now. I cannot, I don't have time to talk. I don't want to talk to you, just like, release me from my contract or put it on pause. Maybe I'll see you next year like, I just need to do this. But you and I made the decision together to take a little pause and continue to work together.

Not to reinforce or sustain the business you have, but to redesign it for the future. Because even though your dad is now sadly gone, that puts even more focus on your relationship with your mom and your siblings. It also renewed your awareness that I'm not just going to hang it up. I'm not just going to say, I'm just doing this and maybe I'll get back to this later. You're like, no, I need to re-envision my business in such a way that it is portable. I can you know how I always talk about the swapping the on off switch for a dimmer switch? I can dial it up when I can and I can dial it down when I can't. And I can do so without letting people down, my family or my clients or myself.

And I can make the money that I need to make so that I can continue to live the way I want to live and not be constantly stressing out and worrying. Some of the things that we did and it was just starting when your dad got sick, you were starting to refocus on what would it be like if I was just a solo operator. I was not collaborating with other people, I was not bringing in business that required other players. What if I redefined the scope of what I do? And we did that and then we redefined the scope of who you do it for. Let's talk a little bit about those decisions.

But I like to have that personal relationship with my client where it's me and them and we're like creating together and we're working on their business and their project. And I just, I lost so much of that collaborating with other people that I really missed that aspect of it. And then I really, in simplifying and sort of getting back to that personal relationship, I really wanted to have that flexibility like you said, you know, being able to come and go on project work when I needed to come and go, you know, kind of thing. So it was very personal to me that I get back to really that was what was most fulfilling in the business for me, which was those, that ability to have that personal connection with every client.

H: I think it's really fortunate when we can find our way back to the things we enjoyed the most. Sadly, it often takes some sort of trauma or tragedy to really reorient us to what matters most. And it's one of the reasons why I start my work with all of my clients with doing a values clarification exercise. Because oftentimes, especially if you've been a business owner for a while, as you and I both have the values that we had, the things that were most important to us when we started the business sometimes get, you know, I think of it as like losing the plot line.

It's like it's a series that just goes on for eight season and you kind of forget like, what, what, what was this all about? But also there's so much noise in the online business space. All the big names are telling us scale, scale, scale. If you are staying small, you're playing small and you're leaving money on the table, you have limiting beliefs. And it's like I mean I had a very successful career as a clinical social worker. I climbed up the food chain over a period of years and ended up being a clinical director of a huge agency.

And I ended up being harassed, I mean my last two jobs for other people, I got laid off for the one and only time in my life and then I spent a year being harassed and I decided, this is a wake up call. And what do I actually enjoy most about this field? And what I actually enjoyed most is the one on one personal, intimate ability to have impact and I still love that. Yes, could I have a huge platform? Maybe? Could you have a huge platform? Maybe. But you learned in a very painful way that that's not actually what has the most meaning for you. You don't love that. Maybe you love the idea of it or maybe you've just heard so many messages that tell you that's what you're supposed to do. Yeah, you went with it.

G: Especially in the creative field like the number one message to all creatives everywhere is you should be an agency and it's like, not everybody wants to be an agency. The other thing that came out of that time and that thinking was just how like how adamant I am that like self employment should be a choice that everyone has. And just wanting to really help people like myself that were going from that full time career into more of a consulting role, it was pretty easy to narrow down to a niche where it's like, oh yeah, B2B consultants, which is what I do in a marketing aspect, you know, I want to help them grow. I want to help them have that polished professional online appearance that their expertise deserves so that when they're representing themselves to a potential client or someone, you know, they feel that level of confidence because they're like, I know look good. I know I sound good, I've got this. Like, I am the expert that I am, and I'm going to show that to you today.

H: And I think you had other options, though, that we played around with and just I want to bring this up because this is so common, and everybody thinks it's cringe and they think they're the only one that does it, but this whole business about, you know, narrowing down to your target market, your niche, your ideal client. Like who because you've been doing this for so long, you've worked with so many different types of companies, and I could work with all these different people, but who are the group that I most want to work with and why? And I think we narrowed in and focused on, and you were, yep, this is it, I'm all in. We started mapping out the strategy for that, and then I think there was a moment of, well, maybe.

G: I came up with another one.

H: Yes, you did. Maybe not actually, at this point, I don't even remember what it was, but it was like, within a few days, you're like actually…

G: It was with doctors what it was, was. I had done a project last year for a concierge obgyn and just absolutely adored, loved working with her. She's just an amazing partner and project, and I continue to work with her to this day. And so we started talking about, well, maybe instead of consultants, we look at concierge doctors because they don't have good marketing right now. Like, they don't have a solution that's easy to go to. And we took that fork in the road, and you went right down that road with me, and we talked about it and went over the options. And then ultimately, in the end, I came back to you and I said, I'm really passionate about this group of people as well, but I think where I want to stick is with B2B consultants, because that's just really where my heart is, and that's where, I feel like I have the best, the most experience and the most strengths to offer. And so, yeah, it's easy to find niches it's really hard to find your niche, is what I'll say.

H: Indeed. And also, I want to say this, that the more experience you have and the more different types of folks you have worked with and enjoyed and gotten a good result from, it's like, well, I could do this. I could do this, I could do, I have done that. I mean, I got great results with these people. Oh, and, and let's not forget about those product-based companies like I did for them that they didn't even, we didn't even set out to do. Like, you have this track record of success in all these different niches.

It is incredibly hard, Steph, when that's the case, as it is with many folks with ADHD, because we like variety. And if something seems interesting or exciting or challenging or fun or we just really fall in love with the client, we're like, I can do that. We don't think, shit, I've never done that before, this looks really hard. We're just like, I want to do it. And when I want to do something, I find a way to make it awesome because that's how we roll. So being able to have that as your background and say, you know what, I could do this, I could do that, I could do the other thing, but I'm going to stick with this and feel good about it.

G: Yeah. And that was a big part of it too. Just in deciding between concierge medical and B2B consultants, it was like, she was great. The ob gyn was great, but how many doctors out there are going to be great like her?

H: Yep.

G: And I wasn't sure I could answer that question, but of all the consultants I've met over the years of my career, they've all been pretty great, minus a few, you know, outliers. But that's every place.

H: And also it's like you say, it's near and dear to your heart because you are an independent consultant who works with businesses so why not leverage that? I mean, you relate to their strengths, you relate to their struggles. And the struggle most B2B consultants have is how to create an online presence that is aligned with their skill and expertise and that's exactly what you do. So it's a good fit for them and it's a good fit for you. Now after that, we refined that and said, okay, I'm sticking with it. And I may get a wild hair about something else that I feel like running off with, but we're not going to go there.

We're just going to, you know, just going to put a pin in it, in that butterflies or let it fly away. This is what I'm doing and pretty quickly after that, I have to say, one of the things that was so rewarding about working with you, Steph, is that when you made a decision you went into action very, very quickly, and a prolific amount of action as that. So once we decided that, I think it was probably a week or so before you'd rebuilt your website and we started mapping out your marketing campaign and, I mean, you were just going for it.

G: We were going yeah, I think it was a week or two weeks. I redid my entire website, like, the whole thing, and we repurposed some materials that I found on my Google Drive. Like, we were really able to tap into a good what I think was like a core direction for the marketing and the messaging and where we wanted to take it. And, you know, for me, it's like, when I think about consultants, I think about reputation is everything, and a poor website design is a poor reflection on your reputation. So it's kind of the angle we took with that content. And I visited it the other day and reread through the whole website again, and I'm just so pleased with where it ended up. And I actually already I had somebody send me a compliment on it the other day, too, so that made me feel extra good.

H: Nice, and I think this is, you know, I think the ADHD creativity gets ignited when we feel a sense of clarity and confidence, when we're still in confusion, when we're still in, well, this or that and, yeah, but what if and all that. It's okay to have some confusion, it's okay to have some doubt. It's okay to start going in one direction. And as a result of taking action in that direction, you realize, nope, this ain't it. That is not wasted time. That's not a mistake. That's not being lost. That's literally figuring it the fuck out in the doing. And that, I think, is one of the reasons why we had the outcome that we had. And even in the midst of trauma and loss, why you were able to end up where you wanted to.

And I think coming, you know, you're very resilient, obviously, but more than anything, you are able to go from thinking, deciding to acting quickly and decisively and I think it makes such a huge difference. So many of us get caught up in the what if and then, well, first I need to and I better learn this thing first. And it's like, I think that we just keep adding to the prerequisites that we think we need to do before we can take action. I promise you, the ones who take action quickly figure things out faster and you are a prime example of that.

G: Yeah. And I think, too, just losing my dad had a big impact on me as well, in the sense that it was so sudden and so out of the blue that it just made me not want to dither on things anymore. If it feels right and it feels good, I'm gonna go for it. It's kind of become like my new mantra. And I think that as we the more we talked and worked together and kind of worked on the website and stuff, it was just like, this is it like, this is the right choice. And I am all in on it because I just I'm not gonna overthink it. I'm not gonna dither about it. I'm just gonna do it and if it works out, great. If it, you know, doesn't also great like, I'll have learned some stuff from it. But, you know, there was there's just no reason to wait, like, it just it was, yeah.

H: It's a different kind of urgency right? Like, I think, unfortunately, a lot of folks with ADHD, you and I included, because we had conversations about this. It's like we manufacture urgency by procrastinating. We know there are things we need to do. We know that we need to make a decision. We know we need to figure something out. We know we need to rebuild our website. We know we need to hire a coach. We know we need to post more frequently on social media. We know we need to whatever, whatever. We know.

G: We know.

H: But usually we wait or fuck around or over complicate things so that we're doing a bunch of things that don't actually move the needle because we're avoiding the thing that actually will help us figure out. You cannot figure out whether you're doing the right thing in your business, in your head. You have to take action in the world. That is the only way to prove whether you're on the right path or not. You cannot do enough thinking. You cannot do enough planning. You cannot do enough preparing. You can't listen to enough podcast episodes or read books or watch people's webinars.

You need to act and I say, I have so much appreciation for the fact that you were able to take advantage of the pain of your loss to realize life is short and you have no idea what's coming next. Don't wait. Don't wait. It's a totally different type of urgency. It's the reality that life is uncertain and none of us can predict the future so take action. Don't overthink. You will figure it out and you are an embodiment of that.

G: Yeah. I don't know how many other people experience this, but I think that there's a certain level of fear in that procrastination in my brain. Like, my brain is thinking, oh, well, what if, what if, what if? So I put it off, put it off, put it off. And I mean, I just don't think we should be afraid anymore you know? Like, I think that when you have ADHD, it kind of can make you feel like an outsider. It kind of can stall you out. You don't quite have the normal norms of everybody else, and it just, you know, but that's also what makes you super special. And, yeah I think leads to a lot of, like, my creative energy and what I'm able to do in the work that I enjoy and it's like, you know.

H: So the message is, don't wait. Just don't wait.

G: Don’t wait. Just go for it.