My Child Is An Addict: Navigating Addiction as a Father with Stephen Randell

Episode 4 • 16th May 2024 • The Akkeri • Matt Howlett

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Stephen Randell

Addiction doesn't show up one day as a full-blown out-of-control thing. It’s little hints and you watch it chip away. I don't care what color you are. Where you grew up, how old you are. We're built for connection and no one connects with anyone who is not authentic. Who I am is a hurt father who feels like he failed a lot of days.

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Stephen Randell

Who's still working on it, who’s trying to try to tell a story, to help somebody. Because it helps me.

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Matt Howlett

You are listening to the Akkeri podcast, a show about men and masculinity. The challenges that modern men face, and how to chart a better way forward. I'm your host, Matt Howlett, mental health coach and founder of The Akkeri. In this episode, I'm talking with Stephen Randell. Steve is an accomplished business leader, speaker, and author whose impassioned advocacy a stamped the hearts of his audience.

00;00;47;20 - 00;01;16;25

Matt Howlett

Author of My Child Is an Addict Navigating Through Your Child's Addiction. He focuses on transforming challenges into a life of genuinely living. Steve shares what it was like to be a father of a son who struggled with, and eventually lost his life to drug addiction. We talk about his struggle to process that loss through the writing of his book, the authenticity that we both crave and look forward in relationships, and how the courage to be real in relationships can play a big role in men finding support we all need.

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Matt Howlett

Well, I'm so glad that we can make this happen. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this.

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Stephen Randell

Yeah, well, thanks for asking me. I think it's a it's a great thing to do. I've really enjoyed listening to the couple of podcasts about why you so far appreciate love. love your intro, what you're telling the story. I relate to that a lot from the past. Just came to the Crusaders, to the musician part. Yeah, I came up through all the same things, right?

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Matt Howlett

Right. Yeah. So we both grew up in Newfoundland in the Pentecostal church context, I guess.

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Stephen Randell

Absolutely. Yeah. Wow. Steeped in. And I say things steeped in it.

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Matt Howlett

Well, that is how I'd love to start. If you could just give me just a rough background on yourself, because I've only met you once.

00;01;57;15 - 00;02;15;26

Stephen Randell

Well, yeah. Grew up in a council church, just with a minister for that great guy who did great work it my late teenage years and kind of moved away from that and and went off in this. We often joke. I went away and joined circus. I all I thought I wanted to be was a rock star. So I got in bands and that's what I did.

00;02;15;26 - 00;02;37;12

Stephen Randell

I went on the road for a long time, right. And, and a great like, you know, that I wouldn't do it again. Yeah. Well, at the time, it was still fantastic. I had a lot of fun and got to see the world, which was really cool, nice. And eventually, as I'm sitting down, you know, I got a, I developed a big interest in, in just business sales, marketing.

00;02;37;12 - 00;03;03;22

Stephen Randell

I didn't know I had those interests. And people love people and teens and things like that and that I totally stumble upon that. I just I came off the road and I was burnt out and didn't want to go out for another six weeks or whatever it is. And I took a job at a music store. I said, well, I know music, and I met these great guys who work there and girls and, I just kind of started to snowball from there into, like took a leadership role.

00;03;03;24 - 00;03;25;12

Stephen Randell

And I was helping build this team. And, and it's just something that, I could do. I had a lot to learn, but I had an natural tendency toward. So then did it grow from there? And up to just in the recent years, I was, overseeing, chain of retirement homes in design and this big operation, very, very big business.

00;03;25;14 - 00;03;45;28

Stephen Randell

And during that, as when I went through some real personal tragedies and changes, and that's when I finally said, stop. You know, one thing about me, I'm, I'm all about momentum, which is good. Served me well in a lot of ways. We can certainly burn you out quickly, too. So I'm still working on the finding the balance in that.

00;03;45;28 - 00;04;05;07

Stephen Randell

But when I just stopped all that sort of, you know, I've been writing for a long time and not focused on finishing a book. Not after wrote notes and journals and stories and and as you can tell, I tend to be a storyteller anyway. And I done so much that I've never had this focus. Like to complete a work.

00;04;05;09 - 00;04;21;18

Stephen Randell

But after everything that happened, I stepped away. And now now it's the time. Now I'm going to step away and say, hey, I'm going to complete this body of work and finish, go up and tell the story. and yeah. And that's what brings us here. So that's, that's, that's in a nutshell of my years.

00;04;21;20 - 00;04;30;07

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing that. Like we met, I was meeting a mutual friend of ours and, just chatted over a couple pounds of, wings.

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Stephen Randell

Wings? Yeah, yeah.

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Matt Howlett

And then I actually mentioned tonight to a buddy of mine, John, John Hilliard, he mentioned. Yeah. He said, oh, yeah. Do you know him very well? Savage bass player.

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Matt Howlett

So there you.

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Stephen Randell

Go. Tell John I said go. John was a thank you. Yeah.

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Matt Howlett

You're not paying for that one. Yeah, yeah. So I saw your post. well, actually your posts that Pete had shared and. Oh, that sparked my interest right away. Now, a couple people have shared it. So that's great that that's getting out there. And, you shared a couple chapters with me, so I'd love to jump right into that.

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Matt Howlett

There's a section that, I mean, it's well, I'll just let people feel what they feel. It hit me in a in a very strong way. I'll just read this out. This. Okay. So this is from chapter one entitled Riding the Roller Coaster. The first time my son Zach died was just a short while after his 18th birthday.

00;05;23;08 - 00;05;44;27

Matt Howlett

The kind, funny, charming young man with a smile that never failed to light up a room died slowly, though his physical body remained. The person I knew and loved gradually slipped away while being replaced, piece by piece, by a burgeoning addict, like a terminally ill cancer patient who, despite best medical efforts, cruelly suffers and fades away till they are no more.

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Matt Howlett

We too, as parents, are forced to stand by helplessly and witness their heartbreaking decline. We watch our precious child's physical and mental capacity slowly fade away and become a shell of who they once were. That is.

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Stephen Randell

Yeah.

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Matt Howlett

Yeah, that's. There's a lot there. that hit me. I don't have any experience with addiction. I don't really know anybody. I worked for a couple years in, in youth care. so there was parts of, you know, my experience that was coming, coming back there. But, I mean, tell us, tell us more where did this, start for you?

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Stephen Randell

You know, it's interesting to hear someone read it back to you because I, you know, I've been writing this in bits and pieces over the last couple of years. Certainly the past six months it's been came to fruition here. So I had to go back over that body of work. And when you're right, well, I won't speak for all or I can only speak for myself.

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Stephen Randell

But for me, if I write 30 or 40,000 words or probably 150,000 words, because you're right it and rewrite it and go back later, say, now, I don't like the way that came out. I'll write something different. So here in that, honestly, Matt, it's I think that's summarized the whole thing. If I had to put it in a one paragraph, that's that's it.

00;07;03;20 - 00;07;29;05

Stephen Randell

That's that's the whole experience of what happens. And it's, it's so hard to listen to. It's so hard for me when I have to reread this about editing purposes, what have you, but I really believe that sums it up. That's what happens. addiction doesn't show up one day as a full blown out of control thing. It's a little hint like, oh, they're acting a little different.

00;07;29;08 - 00;07;48;23

Stephen Randell

or that's a weird reaction or, you know, it's things like that, and then you watch it chip away and all of a sudden that again, that nice personality or all the former had with friends or people coming over and come all the same, whether I was going out now, all those little change, you start to go, this is not the same.

00;07;48;24 - 00;08;06;14

Stephen Randell

And then as a parent, you don't get trained on this stuff. So all of a sudden your child is acting differently and then you don't want to be overbearing, right? So you're like, well, maybe they're just growing up now. I'm hoping that I'm holding on to a 12 year old. And I got to realize they're 16 now and as parents can do.

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Stephen Randell

And so you second guess every move you make, right? And I've talked to it's got to be hundreds now of of people. And they tell me their stories and, and I appreciate that. But I can tell you as you're talking I can finish your sentence, I don't I because they need to get it out. But the similarities are unbelievable.

00;08;27;10 - 00;08;38;01

Stephen Randell

Right. It's like everyone has the same story. Yeah, it's a different person and they get their own personalities that go with that. But you look at the underlying theme, it's all the same story.

00;08;38;08 - 00;08;55;05

Matt Howlett

Yeah, I, I could see that with, my grief is a big part of my story. loss of my mother and my father both died to cancer. And when I hear other folks share their stories of, you know, losing a loved one or losing a parent, it's, there's definitely a lot of similarities. Like what you're saying.

00;08;55;12 - 00;09;16;04

Matt Howlett

Could you just give us a bit of a context of how your story started? Like, do you have more than one, child? Was Zachary your only child like that? When you started to learn or notice the changes in his life, in your home life around that time period, can you just, like, paint a picture for us of what that was like?

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Stephen Randell

He was my only child. So, up to 17 and 18 years old. I mean, he was superstar. Okay? You know, we can all of stories. He loved playing hockey. He loved golf. He had a driver's license, girlfriend or two here. There. He worked at the local Walmart, you know, at Burger King, and saved up his money.

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Stephen Randell

Was responsible with his money. But I felt like I did a good job, like I was having that sense of pride. Like, of course I can. I can break to the neighbors about my kid because he's he's doing it. And he was talking about, maybe wanted to be a chef. We had a couple different ideas. And so everything was going exactly what you would hope your children do.

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Stephen Randell

and, and his sheer luck. I suppose he was just a pleasant person, you know, he was just that easygoing, happy person. He had lots of friends and lots of good news stories and I remember very well the first time I saw, some weed, on his bureau, his room was on him, and I was just, you know, and I, I kind of went like, okay, you know, I played the van I smoked last week, the day.

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Stephen Randell

So me, stuff like that didn't freak me out. I was disappointed, but I had like, okay, you were this age, what were you doing? And I tried to be a bit cool about it. Yeah, honestly, internally I was bothered, but I had to go like, okay, let's, let's when you look at you've got the all the pros and cons where he was hit nine over ten.

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Stephen Randell

So I'm going like I'm really going to beat up. So but we had a great open relationship and and yet this one kid will never lie to you. He had no fear of telling me what was. Which was great too. And, so I did ask him about it. Kind of brushed off. And that's something I do just well, you know, just be careful.

00;11;00;13 - 00;11;17;17

Stephen Randell

That stuff is, you know, just the gateway thing. I had that little talk with them. Right. Well, I really believe that all the time was just that, like, just, you know, you're doing great, but my things get a hold whether I should slow down on your path. And that was. And that was all. It went and went great years ago.

00;11;17;19 - 00;11;38;18

Stephen Randell

Don't worry about that, that sort of thing. But it wasn't long before behaviors shift. the first thing I noticed was that, and I keep talking. I use a Pleasant Gardens attitude. Yeah, he was harder to get along with, and it was more those little shifts that, you know, what I call them now, learn to call them red flags.

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Stephen Randell

Right? It's like like like, okay, this thing like.

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Matt Howlett

Something big enough of a difference that you would notice it and question. Yeah.

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Stephen Randell

And now not like his past. I'm very I'm very aware red. Tonight's little small red I call them with like social indicator. Something ain't right right now I think we all do that to ourselves. By the way, is that we rule them out. It's only a small thing. That's just me. And I did it when I saw those little behavior changes with him.

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Stephen Randell

Now, if I was reliving that today, knowing what I know now, I would 100% catch those red flags because now I see it. Red flag. It's not big or small. It is red flag. It's a red flag. Pay attention to something. you might be the biggest thing, but it could be a huge thing on its way. And so, so I did that.

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Stephen Randell

What I do then, what I used to do that, I said, okay, and I kind of talked myself off my own ledge and said, okay. But then it just and once it seemed to tip a balance, like we knew he was using other things. That's what it really shifted for me, because all of a sudden I something's wrong.

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Stephen Randell

So it it was slow and gradual or when it moved then it was like just an escalation of like this other human being.

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Matt Howlett

How did you spot that? Did you see drug paraphernalia? Did did he talk to you about it?

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Stephen Randell

No, it wasn't a move to talk with anymore. Then it was more abrasive. That's in you're into the rescuing trying to save and trying to meet somebody different. Choose different. And at that point, you know, just really quickly where got this other person, which is very confusing. And I my heart goes out to people dealing with it because I, you know, it's like you're looking at the same person and you're trying to deal with them the way you've always dealt with them.

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Stephen Randell

You know them intimately, and all of a sudden it's like talking to a different human being. But it's confusing because you're looking at the same person, right? But the rationale is gone. Your agreeableness is gone. And took me a while to pick up on this, and really know this is true, but once they type a certain point, the drug is always first.

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Stephen Randell

The drug is first. Someone's not friends. It's not money, it's not relationship. It's it's it's drug first. And when you're dealing with someone at that stage, so you not for every solution you want to never get a rational action. Compassion right to argue in black and blue with them. And the drug is first. Yeah.

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Matt Howlett

What just a rough estimate. I'm curious as to the timeline. When you first noticed changes in behavior, you saw the weed, in his bedroom to, you know, the bigger changes in attitude. And you know that he's using something, you know, stronger.

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Stephen Randell

Yeah, I would say it was probably in his 18th year somewhere in there that I first started to notice things. Yeah. And I would say it was probably about he was 20 ish when it was really like, this is a problem. Right. And then it was, you know, then you go from there onward and it's it's fine to manage and learn how to deal with all those things.

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Matt Howlett

All right. can you tell me a little bit about what you did do? Because I know you worked with him and you mentioned you had a close relationship. There's a couple references in there where you guys had moments where you. It was still the boy that you remembered, you know, speaking to you. You know, I love you two.

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Matt Howlett

Dad at the, you know, as you go off to work was one, one story. But what was it that you you did do with him as a father to help him out of that? I think rehab was was one of those things.

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Stephen Randell

Yeah, well, we had several attempts at that. some were successful in the short term, we'll say work for a little bit. Again, I'm very careful not to make generalizations, but I am making one right now. I'm not saying every once experience like this, but again, in my experience now I'm talking to many, many groups and individuals. It seems to be a common denominator up in this way.

00;15;43;01 - 00;16;12;12

Stephen Randell

First thing we do is we're flailing around trying to figure out what to do. Right? There is no well, as you say, you and you have a new baby now, house. And of course with that, all parents are figuring it out, you know, and they get better at baby number two. They're probably a little better at because, you know, and they're not too worried about every little thing and, and but when you have this, I mean, you're sitting there like what do you do the first thing typically certainly.

00;16;12;15 - 00;16;33;20

Stephen Randell

Okay, I'll speak for myself. What I did was doing the exact same thing that I've always been doing was try and have a talk with them, have a sit down rash, rationalize with them. One I didn't know at the time I was talking to a different person. So my strategy. So I got used to, helping raise a good young man no longer worked.

00;16;33;21 - 00;16;58;20

Stephen Randell

And that was very confusing. This is like, why was this always worked out? Well, he you still work? So I was so busy trying to get back to hit that 17 year old boy. That's where we gotta get back to. That's the goal, right? I didn't know at the time that 17 year old boy was gone. And that was a heartbreaking realization that came a long time later, that he was never coming back, even if he got well again.

00;16;58;22 - 00;17;17;01

Stephen Randell

Right now, it's going to be dealing with a 20 something year old recovering. It is not going to be the 17 year old boy who worked at Walmart or Burger King, right? You don't play hockey, right? So the all these realizations came later. And so you write me, you know, I'll use the term again, play around trying to figure out.

00;17;17;01 - 00;17;43;17

Stephen Randell

And then it starts looking for suggestions from people. I went to therapy myself. I met the group sessions. everything all based around how do I fix him? and again, I can't remember one parent that has spoken to me that hasn't, somewhere in the conversation said something that resembled an paraphrasing. I can't figure out what I did wrong.

00;17;43;19 - 00;18;08;14

Stephen Randell

I can't figure out what I did wrong. Yeah. I now I can look at you because you didn't do anything wrong. But we go to the self-blame first because we must have. Right? Right. And so I spent a lot of time, even in group sessions, in private security. I was sitting there looking to therapist. You got to point out what I did wrong, how we fix it so we can go back and save.

00;18;08;16 - 00;18;20;29

Stephen Randell

And that was I spent well, session after session in that until we finally he taught me that, you didn't choices or choices and, you live with choices. You don't. You can't fix people.

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Matt Howlett

Yeah. We can't fix people. We can help people. You know, we can come alongside. And it sounds like you. You did that. I mean, even in the language that you just used a second ago, like you felt like you were flailing around at first, it probably felt like that. And maybe in reflection, sometimes it still feels like that.

00;18;36;16 - 00;18;52;09

Matt Howlett

But I'm willing to bet that it was actually quite good. You know what I mean? That the support that you offered the the the putting yourself out there, like I see what you're going through. I'm here to help, I love you, I want the best for you. You know what I mean? I that comes through in your writing at least.

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Matt Howlett

You know I can't speak to what you actually did in the moment.

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Stephen Randell

But you do what you can. You do everything you can. I was talking with someone just the other day that your son is right in the middle of him. It's a mess, you know, it's family time at a very difficult time. And I looked at the mom and I said, and like, you talk about a great family who's doing everything they can, you know?

00;19;14;10 - 00;19;33;12

Stephen Randell

And I looked at the mom, I said, you have to realize you are doing everything you can, however unfairly. You know, there are certain things you can't do. And that was my frustration, too, because I was a fixer. I could fix anything. You give me enough time, resources, I'll, I'll, I will figure it out and that I couldn't.

00;19;33;19 - 00;19;47;11

Stephen Randell

How about the most important thing I ever wanted to figure out? I. And it took me like a game, you know, a long time to learn that you ever. You can at some point, you have to accept some things. You cannot. You.

00;19;47;14 - 00;19;57;00

Matt Howlett

Is that what made the writing of this book? and I'm quoting, you know, one of the most frightening things that you've ever done, like the self-blame and the reflection and the.

00;19;57;00 - 00;20;18;04

Stephen Randell

Well, this the vulnerability. Right? I think it's very common. We we tend to present our best foot forward. And for me, I certainly will. 80% is in control. a responsible, you know, and hopefully a good person in society. At least I want to be that person I endeavor to be. When I decided I was going to write and I was going to think it was just me, another.

00;20;18;04 - 00;20;40;03

Stephen Randell

And so, like I said, that I am not doing this unless I'm ready to say it, like it, it's come what may. And from that much, much in my own head, I'm sure, from my own self-doubt. Now I'm self-critical anyway because I have high expectations. Oh, I just imagined everyone who was so much smarter than I criticized what I wrote.

00;20;40;05 - 00;20;56;22

Stephen Randell

that he didn't know what he was talking about. So that was very difficult for me. That was the first part, just the whole self-doubt this morning. But the care, right? You know, it's just something I should just journal and write and keep and be therapeutic for myself. And that's good too. A lot of people do that as they should.

00;20;56;24 - 00;21;14;18

Stephen Randell

And and the second part that was probably make it the most frightening was as I wrote, I had to read it aloud. You know, though, as you know, it's not just a story about my sex life. It's, you know, it's different sections that there's a lot of that in there. But in the parts where I could tell real stories, you know, reliving.

00;21;14;18 - 00;21;41;15

Stephen Randell

And it's not an enjoyable experience. You know, writing is a lonely experience. You need to be. I need to be, from my home writing concentrate and think. And then when you're reliving it, there's there's times that you just you couldn't get it out. And sometimes you felt it was that was really flowing like a get the story out like I and it's, I felt it's pretty good or coming out the way I wanted it to come out, and it's so personal.

00;21;41;15 - 00;22;02;00

Stephen Randell

But I still feel like if someone came up to minutes of your story and saw or that stupid I would, I almost feel like it was a personal attack on me and Zach write this as a soul personal, of course. Again, despite that, I decided come what may, I'm putting it out and no regrets. And I'm glad I'm,

00;22;02;03 - 00;22;03;12

Stephen Randell

I'm super glad I did.

00;22;03;19 - 00;22;22;02

Matt Howlett

Yeah, that resonates with me. Even in that first episode that you mentioned where I just told my story, I felt like if I'm launching this, there's so much of this is is about me. well, not not about me, from me, from my story. It's based on my experience. You know, what I share with the men that I work with?

00;22;22;02 - 00;22;40;14

Matt Howlett

This is a lot of my own experience. You know, it's it's different from therapy, but what I was saying is that resonates with me a lot, because in that first few weeks where I was trying to formulate what it was that I did want to share, because I have to say, it's a Coles notes version. I'm 43 and that episode was about 17 minutes right?

00;22;40;16 - 00;22;58;22

Matt Howlett

So I you know, I shared the things that kind of stuck out to me the most that were the hardest, the things that I learn the most from. But how how did you like I know what it took for me to process that and get through that, to actually hit record and then stop editing at some point. Because, you know, I that was hard for me to do.

00;22;58;23 - 00;23;11;22

Matt Howlett

There was definitely some pauses and things in there that I just needed to clear out a bit, but for the most part, it was unfiltered. How did you get to that point where you, you know, sent this to an editor and you're putting it on the internet?

00;23;11;24 - 00;23;30;10

Stephen Randell

Yeah, that was that was a rough day. Well, to your point about your story, by the way, I think before I tell you that, I got to say, I think that's what engaged me the most. And I think that's what people want to hear. you know, the old adage, like, people don't care what you say, they know how much you care.

00;23;30;13 - 00;23;51;18

Stephen Randell

And I think you actually talked that you became a real person because that's to me, though, we had no lunch together before. But when I listened to your opening introduction of Right Now, this all fun, I was really engaged. Like, this is a great story. This is someone's got something to say. And though I know I get it, you feel like this is strange.

00;23;51;18 - 00;24;16;19

Stephen Randell

I'm talking about myself. Yeah, that's not to be discouraged, because that's super important. Yeah, because people want to know who they're listening to. And if it's authentic and real and watching proven that. And so again, when I wrote all this stuff, okay, now I, I was only one song. Right. And so through Family Connection, they hooking up with a really great editor.

00;24;16;19 - 00;24;33;16

Stephen Randell

And I remember the day like I'd already postponed it a week was, you know, I had a day. I had put deadlines on myself. I knew I was like, I'll never get this done right now. Yeah, because I knew it'll never be good enough in mine. It'll always be something, you know? So every time I read, read a chapter, oh, I could change the way I said that or that line read.

00;24;33;16 - 00;25;02;06

Stephen Randell

Too funny. Yeah. Here's a better word. So I did that a lot. The to finally got to the point. That's it. And I sent to the elder a week late. But then I kind of like kind of dust off your hands and said, okay, come what may. And then it came back for, you know, say a revision, which was a godsend because stepping away from for a little bit, I think going back, I actually had reported more content, which beefed up a lot of stuff I was doing through through her suggestions.

00;25;02;06 - 00;25;25;05

Stephen Randell

And I was like, okay, that's good, you know? So also at that point, I actually started to I was over the hump of like whether someone likes it or not. I was like, I just want to be the best. And I felt like I could do. Yeah. And so when I did that, and that's the part where actually her first thoughts are to be back through as a book, not as picking myself apart and picking the story apart.

00;25;25;08 - 00;25;32;24

Matt Howlett

Right. So even in your own mind, what you were doing is finally starting to become real in the outside world. I get that. Yeah, yeah.

00;25;32;27 - 00;25;56;22

Stephen Randell

Yeah. And then then the last version, I mean, what they it was coming back to me and I was away from it for about ten days, and I got full and done ready to go massage your manuscript back. And I sat down, I read cover to cover, and I was like, okay, I've told the story and it's okay.

00;25;56;27 - 00;26;18;13

Stephen Randell

Yeah, not that it's, you know, I'm a big reader, so I can easily go compare it to some great writer like, oh, I can't do anything close to it like that. But I just read this. The story I want to tell, and I felt mean. We told and I honestly, I was content. I'm not I was I, I finally got over the hump of perfection.

00;26;18;15 - 00;26;39;21

Stephen Randell

Well, you know, it says what it needs to say. And I do believe that those who can relate, it will certainly be a source of certain encouragement and maybe and maybe a little bit of me, a little bit of wisdom in that thing that's in there. Yeah. And, yeah, just from my experiences, as I say earlier in the book, like I don't have a that was behind my need to qualify.

00;26;39;21 - 00;26;51;06

Stephen Randell

I need to talk about this in a medical field or whatnot. Sure. Yeah. So I actually that was finally the point. I was like, I can't I felt like, all right, it's done now. This is a technical part of my job.

00;26;51;08 - 00;27;11;17

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Could you could you talk to me just specifically about what that experience felt like? Because so much of what we get stuck in is the feelings of it. All right. You are going over it. You you think it's not good enough. You think people are going to question your credentials? You think people are going to question your authority?

00;27;11;20 - 00;27;14;07

Matt Howlett

What did that experience feel like?

00;27;14;09 - 00;27;33;06

Stephen Randell

Well, I think they will. I think the problem was for me, I was very much like to your exact words, like, what is this too? Probably don't do this, but to do this. And someone said to me, well, they probably are. So what are you going to do? Quit? I'm like good point. I'm doing it anyway. And that was it.

00;27;33;07 - 00;27;53;02

Stephen Randell

That was a big weight off my shoulders because I spent, I didn't realize how much time I spent in that of the self-doubt. I always knew I had it, I wasn't unaware of it, but I think doing such a vulnerable project, to me personally, it really well done. And that's when I was like, Holy cow, I really do this now, you know what?

00;27;53;07 - 00;28;11;24

Stephen Randell

What are people going to say? Is this many others? What if someone reads it that I really care about their opinion? They think it's, you know, lousy. Yeah. But you know, at the end of the day, I highly recommend it now, because once you go through it, you realize. What do you got to lose? Really? Like, what do you hung up on?

00;28;11;24 - 00;28;12;27

Stephen Randell

Really?

00;28;13;00 - 00;28;20;28

Matt Howlett

Yeah. So self-doubt, maybe a bit of fear if I'm. I'm correct. Like, or at least concern. Worry of what others might say.

00;28;20;28 - 00;28;22;17

Stephen Randell

Oh. Oh, more than a bit.

00;28;22;18 - 00;28;51;18

Matt Howlett

More than a bit. Okay. I'm being nice, I suppose. Yeah. Well, I guess that so your, your recommendation for everybody else to do it or whatever it is that they're looking at I suppose not just to write a book, but like, why would you recommend that? And I think I already know the answer. I feel that I have probably the same answers yourself, but what did that do for you to put that on paper, to go to the editor, to come back, you know, to make the improvements on it and to put that out into the world.

00;28;51;18 - 00;29;04;28

Matt Howlett

You've already had some conversations. You mentioned you were talking to a mother. Was it just recently, or at least a, you know, a family that's going through a similar situation? Yeah. What did that process of putting your story out in the world do for you personally?

00;29;05;01 - 00;29;25;20

Stephen Randell

Well, it it is a good reminder of how valuable this is when someone brings a true, authentic self to a room, to conversation, to a relationship. That's all anybody ever wants. I don't care what color you are, where you grew up, how old you are. That's all we're built for. Connection. and no one connects with anyone who is not authentic.

00;29;25;25 - 00;29;42;23

Stephen Randell

You can have a transactional relationship and have a nice conversation. Me? I want lots of rooms. I say hello, people, shake a hand and meet them and that's it. Yeah, we have no really, we have no relationship and that's normal. What I'm talking about. If you want any real connections with people, you have to bring your authentic self.

00;29;42;23 - 00;29;59;12

Stephen Randell

And people love that. After things have happened to me, the amount of people that showed up that I didn't know, I had emails and phone calls and people walked right into my office at the time, and they come in and say, listen, I just want to say blah, blah, because I know you'll understand. And they just don't know.

00;29;59;12 - 00;30;28;17

Stephen Randell

It's very personal stuff. And just like, wow, they were sitting there with that buildup for who knows how long because I was willing to say it out loud. well on paper, what have you people also have felt like they had permission like, okay. And there was a connection with this person I understand. So the value in that for whatever you're doing is that people will rally behind you, connect with you, the right people.

00;30;28;19 - 00;30;46;03

Stephen Randell

You know, and that's that's key to the right people. So some of the quote unquote wrong people, not to me want to say that, that they may dissipate, they may fade away. Well, I would hypothesize or eventually go find out that's a good thing. Might be a little strange in a moment, but you'll qualify. And that's probably a pretty good thing.

00;30;46;05 - 00;31;06;26

Stephen Randell

and the right people will rally around you and hold you up. I can tell you the past year and a half, especially the more people that have said to me, man, you have got some seriously good friends. And I say, I do, and I could not be more grateful. because everyone around me is authentic as I am.

00;31;06;28 - 00;31;30;08

Stephen Randell

And if they're not my people, that's okay. I can love them at a distance and still say hello to them. Yeah, but it has changed everything for me that way. Like my relationships are good. they're authentic. They're real. I don't spend time with people in the time of in serious time. The people who aren't just good people like you and I got common friends, and they're true people.

00;31;30;08 - 00;31;55;14

Stephen Randell

I get a lot of people like that now, but that came from me, my throat, my hands, and this. I don't have it all together. I'm hurting here. Yeah, I'm falling apart some days. you know, I do this too much. I'm trying to lessen this distance. I'm working on it. Yeah, right. But you do enough of that, and I'll tell you, it's the real people who gather around you because they're craving it, too, right?

00;31;55;17 - 00;32;13;03

Stephen Randell

Yeah. And, I think if we could all just be authentic as humanly possible and just, you know, I. I don't want to be cliche, dude, I'm speaking the truth. But, you know, I don't think speaking your truth means that you go in there. You go in the happy hour. Certainly. everyone. All your problems either.

00;32;13;06 - 00;32;14;12

Matt Howlett

Time and place. Right?

00;32;14;19 - 00;32;38;21

Stephen Randell

Solid place. But but you're in the right time and place. You can encounter people. So, like, I don't have it all together. Yeah. You saw me on stage playing that look really cool, but I'm not I don't that's not me. That's something I do sometimes and love. It is super fun, but that's not who I am. You know, who I am is, heart father feels like he failed a lot of days.

00;32;38;23 - 00;32;55;19

Stephen Randell

We're still working on it. We're trying to tell a story to help somebody because it helps me. You know? I'm all those things, too. And I hope that's okay, because it has to be. Yeah. I'm not going to try to put on what's used to, say, put on ears. What are that for that on I put on here.

00;32;55;19 - 00;32;58;07

Stephen Randell

So is that the old nuclear expression put on ears.

00;32;58;10 - 00;32;58;28

Matt Howlett

I'm not sure.

00;32;58;28 - 00;33;05;17

Stephen Randell

Yes okay. It's something like that. Anyway, I really basically just pretend to be something you're not.

00;33;05;19 - 00;33;08;06

Matt Howlett

Okay. That's not something I've had.

00;33;08;08 - 00;33;09;08

Stephen Randell

No, that's.

00;33;09;11 - 00;33;13;09

Matt Howlett

But there's a lot of different things that I haven't heard. Yeah. Because got a lot of those.

00;33;13;12 - 00;33;16;07

Stephen Randell

Things now that's, that's another book we could write.

00;33;16;11 - 00;33;40;27

Matt Howlett

Yeah. There you go. I'd, I'd be curious to contrast the, like, the good or the ideal male relationships. Those that that were really supportive during all this time and continue to be supportive now with those that that really aren't because you mentioned, you know, those folks who you don't really have an authentic connection with, you know, you're not going to you know, you're not going to be mean to them.

00;33;40;27 - 00;34;16;25

Matt Howlett

You might not cut them out of your life even, but you probably won't give them a ton of your time, right? Yeah. So what does that relationship look like? Because I believe that's the ideal. I believe that's what that is. One of the main reasons why I'm doing what I'm doing to encourage men to to take the risk, to be a little bit more vulnerable in their lives in general, but especially in their male relationships, because that's the only that's the only way that we can be authentic and get the support that we really need to to be understood, to be accepted for who we are and to be reminded in those relationships that who

00;34;16;25 - 00;34;32;10

Matt Howlett

we are is, is okay, and we are okay the way that we are. You know what I mean? Like you're saying that, you know, you're you're still a guy that's figuring it out. I don't have it all together. None of us really do. But we often want to seem as if we do. Okay. So, like, what is it?

00;34;32;10 - 00;34;44;02

Matt Howlett

What is the ideal male relationship for you from your experience? You know, with with Zachary going through addiction and going through that loss and even though figuring out life, you know, after all of that.

00;34;44;05 - 00;34;56;27

Stephen Randell

Well, I can tell you with my core male friends is I could call them anytime, day or night. there's nothing I couldn't say. Right. And they could do the same, and we're all sure of that.

00;34;57;00 - 00;34;58;02

Matt Howlett

That is a beautiful thing.

00;34;58;06 - 00;35;17;01

Stephen Randell

We're all sure of that. Like, Like, come get me. I'm in a jam or someone's coming to get, you know, I mean, I wouldn't have to make a lot of phone calls. I'm okay. And you're happy to help? I mean, I had someone just recently, like, call me up and be your friend and said, you know, I got this going on, so we'll just come on.

00;35;17;01 - 00;35;40;20

Stephen Randell

We'll figure it out. You know? And the fact that they knew they could reach out to someone without judgment or or, you know, I think I screwed up, you know, I mean, I, I need this or that or, you know, and it's, it's been, I swear I get most out of it. They do like to support people like that who are willing to admit that sometimes they need support, as we all do.

00;35;40;22 - 00;35;52;01

Matt Howlett

Right? That that first admittance, though, that that takes a bit of a risk. Right? Like what what what does that feel like? Do you think that that that experience is universal for for us as men?

00;35;52;03 - 00;36;13;08

Stephen Randell

I think so, I think so, I don't think any of us want to do it. We want to feel like we're strong all the time, and that's part of our game. That being said, and I, correct a little bit only to say what we often forget is getting over that personal hump, like you were saying, is actually shows how strong you are and on top of your game you are.

00;36;13;11 - 00;36;19;09

Stephen Randell

And that's that's the part we've really I think we've said universally since we've had trouble with connecting that.

00;36;19;12 - 00;36;20;23

Matt Howlett

Yeah. Well said.

00;36;20;26 - 00;36;43;15

Stephen Randell

And I think realize that is the part that you need to get past because you do. You realize that's when people really go like the amount of people have said to me and I say this humbly and I mean this sincerely, oh, you're so resilient. You're so strong. You're so brave. When I was going through and saying, when I was saying like, I didn't feel any of that, I certainly think, I think I'll go be strong today.

00;36;43;17 - 00;37;06;15

Stephen Randell

I think I'll be extra resilient today. Like, this is feedback I got right. And I was like, thank you, but are you sure? Are you talking about me? You know, I just have those feelings and that's been the massive difference when I was kind of falsely forced into it and now here I am, I'm dealing with these things and, and had people come back and say things like, get me started.

00;37;06;15 - 00;37;32;12

Stephen Randell

The light bulb start to go off. Like, that's what people actually recognize as strong guy I want to be. We all want to be the ground game all the time leading the charge. And by the way, those those are not bad traits but lousy leaders, you know? But there's a difference in being a leader and being strong who you are, being confident to being so caught up in your own self and hiding everything that's really going on that you're actually falling apart.

00;37;32;15 - 00;37;48;27

Stephen Randell

You can carry facade for so long, but you will fall apart. The cracks will show time. Yeah, so it's, when people can realize, yes, you can be strong, but being strong is not always just that facade. And I think that's the universe. We got tangled up a bit too much.

00;37;48;29 - 00;38;02;27

Matt Howlett

Yeah. the second episode that I released was, with my psychologist, Ron Johnson and, talking about his book, actually, it's entitled balls. how, men finding good. Yeah, yeah. Great title.

00;38;02;27 - 00;38;04;22

Stephen Randell

I, I listen to it, I listen to it.

00;38;04;23 - 00;38;04;28

Matt Howlett

Oh.

00;38;04;28 - 00;38;06;18

Stephen Randell

That's great. Yeah.

00;38;06;21 - 00;38;27;16

Matt Howlett

So balls. Yeah. Men finding courage with, I'm going to mess up the order because I do. Every time men finding courage with work, women words and wine and wine is a pseudonym for addiction. And he basically says that I'm 100% paraphrasing that when when men don't, show the courage to to be vulnerable, to look inside the process, those feelings, it often leads to addiction.

00;38;27;18 - 00;38;41;09

Matt Howlett

You know, when we're not willing to to feel sadness, to feel fear, to, you know, really dig in to our experiences, you know, face them and feel them and finish them. It often leads to things like that.

00;38;41;11 - 00;39;04;06

Stephen Randell

Definitely. Yeah, I was in I was in therapy. Private therapy had to be a year for the first time I ever said the word sad. my therapist actually looked at me, said, we call it what it is. You're sad. You're sad that you're past relationship. You're sad, you're solid. You're sad. Apparently, I have to talk about this week after week after week.

00;39;04;06 - 00;39;23;04

Stephen Randell

And I never use the word. Yeah. I was like, well, you know, I'm struggling with this. And, you know, I think there's a better way we can do this all in the six. Yeah. And, since you're saying and that was that was a breaking point for me where I went like, I never said that word. You said you've never used the word.

00;39;23;06 - 00;39;33;07

Stephen Randell

Yeah, because I had trouble admitting that that was it. And now I have no problem using the word like, yeah, I'm sad that happened. Like that makes me sad.

00;39;33;09 - 00;39;50;02

Matt Howlett

Yeah. You're telling my story there now to to a certain extent, I was definitely. And and I still am the fix it. That's my, That's my reflex. Yeah. You know, and my fiance. So, you know, I was having a challenge at work or just anything at all. And not just people who are even that close to me.

00;39;50;05 - 00;40;14;19

Matt Howlett

I want to be able to fix things. I want to be able to make things better. Right. And so I often avoided my feelings. I sip, I suppress them and depress them right and end up feeling depressed because of it. Right? Like it's. But, it's it's freeing. Like I tell men that it's it's truly for one, it's empowering to recognize that, you know, I am an emotional being, right?

00;40;14;19 - 00;40;37;28

Matt Howlett

I have emotions. And when you get to the place where you can own that, you can use them, you can use them because sadness is love based, right? It tells you I've lost something that, you know, I love, right? That's what it is, right? Because if someone says something to you, that's that's mean. Okay. Well, that's like affecting your idea of yourself.

00;40;37;28 - 00;40;58;21

Matt Howlett

Hopefully you you love yourself. That said, you know, my mother was, diagnosed with cancer. It was a surprise in, in January and she passed in April. You know, at 56, I lost my mother at 56. And here I am now, you know, getting remarried, buying a house with my fiance, doing all these things that I would love my mother to be here for.

00;40;58;21 - 00;41;16;18

Matt Howlett

And I have to tell my fiancee, like, Dana, I'm sad. Like, we just actually, had an offer accepted on a house, and we're, like, related. We can't wait to live together, you know, very, happy time in my life. And my mother is not here. That's incredibly sad.

00;41;16;21 - 00;41;17;26

Stephen Randell

She very sad. Yeah.

00;41;17;26 - 00;41;32;19

Matt Howlett

She'd be over the moon excited. So that tells me, you know, for one, I love my mother very much. I miss my mother. She was an important person in my life. There's there's all kinds of things that that opens up for you when you're able to recognize her.

00;41;32;24 - 00;42;00;03

Stephen Randell

Well, it's it's been said. It's been said that, and grief is just loss with no place to go home. And when I read that, it's like, yeah, but yeah, I think you can find places for that to go. And you have like just acknowledging to your fiancé or whomever, but appropriate. I'm sad about that. But then you're process, so you're not repressing all of these things and which will come out.

00;42;00;05 - 00;42;16;00

Stephen Randell

You're coming out just probably in a bad way and you're going to show up somewhere. But the fact you can say like, okay, well, we can be sad together. That man is not here. And I'm very sorry for loss. That's a very that's a tough one. Thank you. But because you can acknowledge it, you know, I'm sad. Mom.

00;42;16;03 - 00;42;34;00

Stephen Randell

That's that's a that's really unfair. And it is. But in fact, you can say it because you sit down and you bury and you act like, well, I'm okay, you know? Yeah, I'm a big boy. Well, next thing you're going around ticked off that your mom's gone and now it's coming up in other way and whatever. And everyone's different to how they react.

00;42;34;04 - 00;42;48;29

Stephen Randell

Well, it's coming and it's not coming in a good way. So more man like you're saying what more men especially no one should be to one side, I suppose one of seems like men are a little more trained to be tough in the shell.

00;42;48;29 - 00;42;53;04

Matt Howlett

And 100%. Hell yeah, that's a safe bet.

00;42;53;07 - 00;42;56;20

Stephen Randell

The women, the women we know generally are just way better at it, you know.

00;42;56;20 - 00;42;59;19

Matt Howlett

So it comes a bit more naturally. You know, that's totally fair.

00;42;59;26 - 00;43;20;24

Stephen Randell

Yeah, yeah. And and and and then growing up their best behavior they've learned that's okay. We learned that that behavior might be as okay. Exactly. My dad, a wonderful human being who taught us much. And I will always be grateful for her to continue to learn from him. But I mean, he was top guy. He was the guy's guy.

00;43;20;26 - 00;43;42;20

Stephen Randell

He was a he's a leader and talent seeker, like, you know, athletic wrestling box. You know, like love going in hunting and fishing. Yeah, he was the guy's guy. I didn't have all of that. I had some interest in. Those were not like eating. Right. And so what you learn that behavior like you got to be on top of things.

00;43;42;20 - 00;44;07;08

Stephen Randell

And he was so, so good at that. And so you come up you think you got to emulate that. And I think a lot of men live that way. Just like I think again, goes back to what you're saying earlier, we sometimes lose the best we can lead and be strong and be all those things, but we still can be vulnerable in that and and acknowledge who we are, what we are, what we're feeling.

00;44;07;11 - 00;44;11;12

Stephen Randell

And and I believe that actually roundswell better makes you stronger.

00;44;11;16 - 00;44;39;02

Matt Howlett

Exactly. I vulnerability is strength. It takes courage right to to stare at, you know, the deepest, darkest parts of yourself. And sit there with your feelings that it's not an easy thing to do. And the bigger the feeling, the bigger the experience. Like losing my mother was, was probably the biggest, or the hardest thing I've ever been through outside of of what happened with my first marriage.

00;44;39;02 - 00;44;59;29

Matt Howlett

And that's that's probably the hardest thing because, you know, mom didn't mom didn't really choose that. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, the other situation was it was a choice. Was something that, you know, someone's decision hurt me. and, you know, caused a chain of events in my life. But, you know, for mom to get cancer and just be taken away from us, it's,

00;45;00;03 - 00;45;17;00

Matt Howlett

Yeah, it was a completely different thing. And, it it took time. And there's still moments like, you know, even today, like, I was just telling you, it's an ongoing process where that that grief has defined, it was it. Grief is just love looking for a home. So you said.

00;45;17;02 - 00;45;18;29

Stephen Randell

graciousness, love with no place to go.

00;45;18;29 - 00;45;20;17

Matt Howlett

But no place to go. Okay.

00;45;20;19 - 00;45;41;04

Stephen Randell

Yeah, but, you know, when it comes to that, again, I did this eight weeks of grief counseling, and so I signed up and did that and very valuable experience. But but in that you get everyone to teach you something. But I certainly learned from that. But maybe it's it's never going to stop completely those waves of grief.

00;45;41;06 - 00;46;03;09

Stephen Randell

I think you learn to manage them better. You sure? We hope you do. You'll learn how to process them better, and I think the blows will soften over time. But as I got over the part of saying, well, when I get over it, I don't run around expecting to get over my loss, right. I, I worked really hard at learning to live with it.

00;46;03;11 - 00;46;23;07

Stephen Randell

And then and part of that just going full circle was writing about like, that's part of learning live with it now I can take it. And hopefully, you know, do something good with it. You know, someone wrote me a really nice note just, about six months ago, I, I certainly kept it. And they said, you know, you can go honor his life.

00;46;23;07 - 00;46;45;12

Stephen Randell

Now we're making the most of, you know, and that was profound. And that meant a lot to me. It's like, yeah, I can do that, that I can do that. And that's me going back to the fixer doer. That's something I can do. Yeah. And that was I think they wrote it as a nice note and encouraged me, but I don't think they realized the impact that had on me.

00;46;45;15 - 00;47;01;04

Stephen Randell

And that changed my whole thinking of, okay, I'm going to finish this and I'm going to put this in and vulnerable to this and critics be damned. And, you know, whatever it's coming and if it helps one, it'll be worth.

00;47;01;06 - 00;47;06;02

Matt Howlett

on that note, when will it be available? Is it available now, the full version or leave? You're still.

00;47;06;07 - 00;47;27;15

Stephen Randell

In it. So, preorders are available right now. Just a couple days ago. So you go to my site, you know, Stephen l ranger.com and, book is there. You can preorder now. It'll ship later in May. so that's happening now. So it's available on my site right now by Jill. Knock on wood, I can't control Amazon.

00;47;27;18 - 00;47;48;29

Stephen Randell

but, it should be on Amazon right around there. It's in the process, you know, there's approvals. Yeah. And listen, I haven't bought a book on Amazon before, so you step on it now. Yeah. so we're going from that to Amazon to an audiobook and you know, and whatnot. Eventually it'll be on store shelves. So it's a it's a process right now.

00;47;48;29 - 00;47;51;28

Stephen Randell

You can order it right now today on my website.

00;47;52;00 - 00;48;15;02

Matt Howlett

Awesome. one more thing I'd love to hear your thoughts on that stood out to me from, one of the chapters in your book. You talked about Zachary's funeral. And again, I'm going to try and paraphrase here. It was something like it was all types of people that were there from all different walks of life. There was, you know, successful businessman.

00;48;15;04 - 00;48;21;08

Matt Howlett

There were folks that were, were, were down and out. Some of Zachary's friends, Shulman showed up with two black eyes.

00;48;21;10 - 00;48;21;29

Stephen Randell

Yeah.

00;48;22;01 - 00;48;27;28

Matt Howlett

And you mentioned something like, this is what church is supposed to be like.

00;48;28;00 - 00;48;55;08

Stephen Randell

My dad, you know, being a retired minister, of course. And, who who gave a beautiful sermon at the at the, at the service and who God bless them, like you talked with a guy who knew how to adapt to situation. You know, number one's his grandson, you know, so he's a training course. But to go to the broadest audience you could come up with, you know, that was that was what was that?

00;48;55;08 - 00;49;16;22

Stephen Randell

And it was a and 150, 200 people was in the room was full. And after he I mean, he was visibly moved as we all were. Sorry I the motion. But you know, when he came in after and after we had no get together with folks family after the service and he said, I've never seen in all my years.

00;49;16;25 - 00;49;37;21

Stephen Randell

And my dad, you know, he did a lot of great things. He like, he ministered to in prisons. And he wasn't just in a one small church. And he had the culture there, which is wonderful for those who that fit that wasn't him. He was very outside and going out. So he was he was very cultured. He understood that everyone was in the church going on Sunday morning.

00;49;37;21 - 00;50;04;02

Stephen Randell

You know, and but he said to me, I had never seen service ever. And I said, dad, isn't that what church supposed to look like? How much you are? We're all here for one common reason, and you're all welcome. And, you know, when the service ended, we were out in the porch. I greeted every soul that came as we left.

00;50;04;02 - 00;50;24;12

Stephen Randell

Every single one. I don't know how long it took a long time. And I why I mention in the book it came two black eyes as he came right up to me. I'll never forget. And he said I was praying this act. And I said, I know you were sick, that I only drink now. And he was like, he just wanted.

00;50;24;14 - 00;50;42;24

Stephen Randell

He was so desperate for some many. He wanted something to see who he was. He was trying. Now he was born for in any party, he probably just kind of a decent kid, but he was banged up. Like, I know what strung out looks like. I've been, yeah, closer to it. And I've won for many a time. And I can remember.

00;50;42;27 - 00;51;03;28

Stephen Randell

And I said the fact that he came, come as you are. And he was right behind him. And also he's a very successful person and a well known person sitting right behind. And I thought was very interesting. we're all sitting together. No one's looking around. So why are they here? Who's that? And there were several stories that day along those lines.

00;51;03;28 - 00;51;26;18

Stephen Randell

That one was had a lot of impact on me. I've since followed up with friends friends and try to see how it. And honestly, I don't know I'm still any more, you know, but that's a journey he's on and will only wish the best for him. But in that room, all I could think like, you know, yeah, we had people singing songs that weren't church songs, that's for sure.

00;51;26;18 - 00;51;56;10

Stephen Randell

And we had some people sing a song that would be more of a church song and we had different speakers that would be talking different topics. We had lot of people from everyone. Yeah, you know, it's a member just off to the side. Took me a few minutes when I was up, given the tribute to him. I look down and I realize, you know, like three young fellas there and I say, young folks, I'm going to guess 18, 19 kind of.

00;51;56;13 - 00;52;14;29

Stephen Randell

And there were two ladies with badges on, like, the elders. They were chaperons facing the East Australia daytime. Right. So they had gotten past they could come to the school. It was an incredible room to be in and we were all breathing. Get, get to the other side of us like we're all together. I don't know if we all could figure this out.

00;52;14;29 - 00;52;18;20

Stephen Randell

We get a lot of room service. Go on. I think we could hear a lot of things. Yeah.

00;52;18;22 - 00;52;22;18

Matt Howlett

Yeah. And that's that point. There is what stood out to me in that.

00;52;22;24 - 00;52;23;12

Stephen Randell

Yeah.

00;52;23;15 - 00;52;44;20

Matt Howlett

It wasn't it wasn't about, fixing church or fixing religion or, you know, any type of, nominal base program or anything. Yeah, nothing like that. It was just about the fact that when people are real, you know, when we come together and recognize that we're kind of all in this together, it doesn't matter what stage you're at in life, how successful or unsuccessful you've been.

00;52;44;20 - 00;53;12;18

Matt Howlett

It really doesn't matter if we could all just be who we are. And you know, take that risk. You're not always going to be received well. But I fully believe that you have to choose vulnerability. You have to put yourself out there. You have to, you know, be courageous to to form that relationship. And and those types of relationships are the key to like a healthy, functioning, happy society burn on.

00;53;12;21 - 00;53;20;06

Stephen Randell

Hundred percent on percent. I think we make a lot more complicated and it has to be something for sure. Yeah, yeah.

00;53;20;08 - 00;53;42;20

Matt Howlett

Well, Steve, I appreciate you coming on. I feel like there's so much more that we could. We could chat. I'd love to have you on again at some point in the in the future. I hope the the book just blows up. I think what you're doing is helpful. And I think it's just the start, you know, I mean, I feel like we're at similar phases and in a way, like, you know, you're putting out your first book.

00;53;42;22 - 00;53;57;10

Matt Howlett

Yeah, this is so 3 or 4 of, you know, something that I've been building and thinking about for a while. And I wish you all the best, man, I, I love the the feeling that I'm getting from you and from the book and it I think it it can only do good things.

00;53;57;13 - 00;54;12;26

Stephen Randell

Yeah. And that's the goal right. And hats off to you. Thank you for having me on. I really appreciate that. And I know you're going to do great because how you're able to. But, you told me great things. so I really appreciate I mean, let me come on a chat for a while and,

00;54;13;02 - 00;54;13;17

Matt Howlett

Appreciate it.

00;54;13;23 - 00;54;17;03

Stephen Randell

That's all. Well, you can reach out and, the. We can all do that.

00;54;17;06 - 00;54;20;05

Matt Howlett

Definitely. All right, brother, thank you so much.

00;54;20;05 - 00;54;22;17

Stephen Randell

All right, all right, man, take care of yourself.

00;54;22;20 - 00;54;23;26

Matt Howlett

I. All right?

00;54;23;29 - 00;54;26;22

Stephen Randell

I'll definitely.

00;54;26;24 - 00;54;51;06

Matt Howlett

Thank you for listening. I hope you found some value in this episode. If you have, be sure to share the podcast with a friend and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. You can find the akkeri on socials at the akkeri and on the web at the akkeri.com. You can find Stephen and his book through his website Stephen L randall.com. That's Stephen with the pH and Randell is spelled R A N D E L L.

00;54;51;09 - 00;54;56;04

Matt Howlett

You can also find him on social media at Stephen L Randall.

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