The central theme of this podcast episode revolves around the multifaceted nature of pastoral counseling, particularly as it pertains to supporting missionaries in their unique challenges. Chris Martin, a seasoned pastor with extensive experience in counseling, highlights the integral role of both spiritual and psychological principles in pastoral care. He emphasizes that pastoral counseling intertwines the application of biblical truths with insights from behavioral sciences, thereby equipping individuals to navigate life's difficulties with a profound understanding of their relationship with God. Throughout the discussion, Chris offers invaluable insights into maintaining healthy marriages and families while serving in the mission field, underscoring the paramount importance of prioritizing these relationships. Moreover, the conversation highlights the necessity of resilience, responsibility, and healthy mentoring as foundational elements for effective service and personal well-being among missionaries.

Takeaways:

• The importance of prioritizing marriage and family for those serving in missions cannot be overstated, as it is foundational to their effectiveness and well-being.
• Resilience in missionaries is characterized by their ability to bend without breaking under pressure, relying on God's strength and support.
• Pastoral counseling uniquely equips individuals to address both spiritual and emotional challenges faced by missionaries in the field.
• Effective mentoring involves establishing relationships with experienced individuals who can provide guidance and support throughout the missionary journey.
• Prayer support is essential for missionaries, fostering a deep sense of connection and encouragement amidst challenges encountered abroad.
• Acknowledging the stress of transitions for missionaries is crucial, as they navigate the complexities of adjustment both to and from their mission fields.

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Welcome back to the Clarity Podcast.

So excited to be here today with a new friend of the podcast, Chris.

Chris, welcome.

Thank you.

It's good to be here, Aaron.

Thanks for having me.

Chris, you and I got to spend some time connecting a few weeks ago.

For those who have not and do not yet know who Chris Martin is, will you share a little bit about yourself and then I'm going to jump into asking you some questions?

Sure, that'd be great.

Well, the Lord has blessed me with the opportunity to be in pastoral ministry for 42 years, and some of those years were spent overseas serving through the International Mission Board, specifically in Thailand, along with my family.

Family.

We went with three kids, returned with four.

We had no intentions of returning to the US except for the occasional stateside assignment.

But the Lord had other plans and impressed on us along the way that he wanted me to return to do graduate studies and counseling and make counseling ministry a focus of our work.

So we returned.

I did that.

Thought we'd go back quickly with the International Mission Board and Member Care because that was a new thing with the board at the time.

But again, God had other plans.

And I'm married, have four children, four children in law, and just had our eighth grandchild.

So lots of joy around our household and thankful to God for all these things.

Wow.

It's hard to believe you look a lot younger than that to have already have grandchildren and.

Yeah.

And just an honor to spend some time with you and Chris.

I said before we hit record, Chris has been an encouragement to me as I've stepped into this role leading and serving in member care.

And we got to spend some time together a few weeks back and it was just an encouragement to me and some wind to my sails and so I'm grateful and thankful for that.

Chris, you mentioned that you served as a pastoral counselor.

Can you describe that unique role of what a pastoral counselor is?

And yeah.

Can you share about that for us?

Yes, I'd be happy to.

And by the way, Aaron, the encouragement and support is mutual.

I appreciate you.

I appreciate what you're doing with this podcast and it is a blessing to me.

So thank you.

Grateful to God for you.

I appreciate it.

Yeah.

And defining pastoral counseling.

Pastoral counseling is really a combination of applying the truths of our Christian faith to along with insights from behavioral sciences to help people engage and move through life?

Well, it's counseling provided by someone who's trained as both a pastor and a counselor.

And it's biblically and theologically sound as well as psychologically informed and specifically Christian psychology.

While drawing on insights from Christian psychology, it emphasizes the importance of our relationship with God and the application of biblical truth to life.

Wow.

Wow.

And my assumption would be, Chris, that uniquely positions you to care for missionaries that I often say are involved in a spiritual war.

Right.

You shared you lived in Thailand and the realities of being on the field and the spiritual nature that comes with that.

So does that pastoral counseling role help speak into those spaces?

Absolutely, because you can take the behavioral sciences principles and not find those spiritual principles within them.

It's not that they don't have value.

They have tremendous value.

There's also truth within those principles, but they're subordinate to the biblical truth that we profess.

And so we need to know, not only from scripture, but also from our life experience and service what it's like to serve the Lord in every way, including face opposition to serving the Lord and when we commit to following the Lord in ministry, whether it's within the US or overseas.

And I tell people all the time, if you're a Christian and you're on the planet, you're in world missions, you could be in the US or you could be overseas.

And if you're active and committed to that mission, the enemy is going to hate that and he's going to fight against it.

And so, yes, the pastoral counseling includes supporting people who are not only moving through what we might think of the usual challenges of life, but also people who are facing spiritual resistance from the enemy of our souls in doing that.

So being equipped and prepared to.

To help shepherd them through that as part of pastoral counseling.

Yeah, I appreciate it very, very much.

Chris, when it comes to missionaries, how do you encourage couples to care for their marriage and their families?

Well, first of all, I emphasize the priority that marriage and family are.

You know, marriage is the first of two institutions established in the earth by God, the second one being the church.

Interestingly, when Jesus describes his relationship with his people, the church, he uses the language of marriage.

He's the bridegroom, the church is his bride.

And that places a high priority on the marriage relationship.

In my opinion.

It defines it as a sacred trust, a calling, and it has the potential to be a powerful witness for us in the world.

And so I describe it as the highest priority relationship among humans.

Second in priority, only to our relationship with God through Jesus Christ.

And of course, biblically, families arise in the context of marriage.

So family is also a high priority, a sacred trust, a calling and a witness.

So I emphasize to people going overseas, hey, the work you're going to do is significant.

It's important, but it's not more important than the work of your marriage and your family and the joy of your marriage and your family.

So fortunately, the Bible has a lot to say about marriage and family and parenting and supports giving that high priority to care for marriage and family.

So in addition to the pastoral care and counseling, we also have clinical counselors who are marriage and family therapists on our team in support of marriages and families.

We, in addition, provide marriage retreats, marriage and parenting seminars and resources, along with the marriage and family counseling.

And I'll share this.

Some people listening may know Dr. Jerry Rankin, who, when we went overseas, was the, what we call the area director for mission work in Southeast Asia.

We served in Thailand, and he was going to be my boss when we arrived on the field.

And we had an opportunity to meet him before departure and had an opportunity to ask any questions we would ask of him.

And the first question that occurred to me to ask was, what advice would he give to a couple going overseas for the first time who's never lived overseas?

And I was expecting him to give me some, you know, snappy church planning technique or something like that.

And what he said to me is something that I've taken to heart and I have endeavored to practice ever since then.

And he said, take care of your relationship with God and take care of your relationship with your spouse, and everything else will fall right into place.

I found that hard to believe, first of all, hard to believe coming from, like, a chief strategist of our organization, but also that that would be the first advice that he would give me.

But taking that to heart and then observing Jerry and his wife Bobbi, live out their lives and their service overseas, they practiced that, and it went well with them.

It wasn't that they lacked hardships or trials or struggles, but God was good to them and giving their marriage that priority and their relationship with God.

That priority, I believe, is a key.

And so I share that with personnel going overseas.

Every opportunity I get.

Yeah, great word.

Two things I think of, Chris, is one is, as I've said and had the honor, it truly is an honor to care for people, and it's an honor to care for missionaries.

And I'm grateful.

I do see that Majority of the time that people, when they're struggling, it's not necessarily a missiological challenge.

On the field, the enemy seems to come and attack families and, you know, and our kids.

And I've shared a few times, you know, oftentimes we're as happy as our unhappiest child.

I think Dr. Dobson said that.

And so when our kids are not doing well, the enemy's attacking them and parenting and the importance of that and transitions, it can be a super.

It can be a challenge and great wisdom and focus on God and family and the rest will take care of itself.

Good stuff.

Good stuff.

Chris, Advice for those who are serving solo.

I know within our organization, and I.

My, my cousin Sean served as a journeyman way back in the day in a place I don't think I'm supposed to say.

And so it was way back in the day, so he was a journeyman, but he went single and served single.

So for those I know, that's a unique part.

There's some unique challenges when you're serving solo.

We're grateful and thankful for those who follow God's calling in that season of their life and time in their life.

Any words of wisdom for them or things that you encourage people that are going over solo or single in their service?

Yeah, on the field.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And, you know, I talked about the priority of marriage and family, and you see priority placed on singleness.

So I think singles are aware of this already, but sometimes, if I think it's appropriate, I will remind them that they're in good company.

They're in the company of Jesus and Paul.

And in our denominational context, one of our star missionaries over the course of our history is Lottie Moon, who served in the mid to late 19th century, and our annual offering for missions is named after her.

We place a high value on all our personnel, and singles have some uniqueness to them, as you said, that needs to be acknowledged and supported.

So one piece of advice I give is, like Dr. Rankin suggested to me about marriage and my relationship with God.

I would say also to singles, take care of your relationships.

Take care of your relationship with God.

Take care of your relationship with your sending support network, your sending church, and the people in that congregation who you know and love and.

And you know, they know you and love you and they're praying for you.

Take care of your relationship if you're on a team with your team members.

But if you're.

You're in a setting where you're the only person there, and that's not unusual.

Take care of your relationship with the other M's that you do have some contact and interaction with, even if they're geographically far from you.

It's important to keep those connections.

And then relationships with locals are very important and very powerful.

You mentioned TCKs.

The enemy knew that's where to attack us.

We weren't going to go home because we were facing, my wife or I were facing some particular hardship.

But the hardest struggles we had were related to the struggles our kids had.

And so we had a local couple in Thailand who took an interest in our family and became very close to our family.

They did not have children, but they loved our kids.

And so relationships with locals can be huge for your encouragement and support.

And I realized we're talking in the context of singleness.

We were actually jealous, if you will, of some of our single journeymen who worked with Thai students because those Thai students would just take them in and relate to them like family.

And they were the people who learned the language the quickest.

So those relationships with locals can't be overestimated.

The importance of that.

And this will help keep you from feeling alone and isolated and lonely.

A second piece of advice would be keep good boundaries.

You know, I think one vulnerability singles have is that others too easily assume that, hey, they've got time, they're free, so to speak.

And singles are vulnerable to being overloaded.

And so keep good boundaries to protect yourself from overextending and over functioning and becoming overburdened and overwhelmed and then possibly burning out.

And the last thing is have a life outside of work.

Identify interests and activities around you that you can participate in that are not work related but are life giving, renewing and refreshing for you so that can help, you'll be restored.

And as you're hearing this, you're probably thinking, well, this is advice for everybody.

That's true, but it's especially important for singles.

I appreciate it, Chris, and great wisdom and value.

You know, as I obviously Heather and I went over, we went overseas, we had kids already, we had our daughter in France.

And that's a season of life, you know, that I've not experienced on the mission field, but just and serving, having the opportunity to serve others, recognizing there's some uniqueness to it and want to be respectful to that.

So I really appreciate the wisdom and insight you've shared.

Chris, some other questions I got for you.

What are, what are one or two things you think that maybe missionaries underestimate about serving overseas and the impact on their mental health, maybe on the mental health of their family.

Okay.

From a macro perspective, I think two of the things that, that we underestimate are the hardships that we'll face and the goodness and power of God.

The hardships are likely to be harder than we expect, and the goodness and the presence and the power of God is likely to be greater than we expect.

And so there's great grace and mercy and tenderness and provision in his presence.

So we don't need to fear the hardships because that goodness and power of God is going to be great for us.

And then from a micro perspective, I don't think we tend to expect the possible challenges that are going to arise with teaming.

If we're on a team, including interpersonal conflict, and then challenges prioritizing family and work.

If we're going out married and also with kids, there's going to be that tug between family and work.

And they're going to be, if we're on a team, we're going to see people who have different lifestyles and work styles.

And if someone's working more than we're inclined to, we might feel pulled along in the wake of that, especially if it's our team leader, you know, so we, we need to, to take care that, that we're giving marriage and family and other relationships the priority they need to have while also prioritizing work.

And, and we need God's guidance and grace for that and also encouragement and support from co workers and possibly member care.

Yeah.

You know, on a lot of our teams, we would say we're like family, but the reality of it is you bring a lot of different families of origin into a new family.

Right.

And so it's not a marriage.

I'm not trying to say it's marriage, but it, you do, as you said, work styles, I loved how you said that.

Work styles, lifestyles, you're bringing all that together and then you figure it's going to be this harmonious relationship.

And the people we've had the opportunity to serve with, you know, we, we've grown to love them and value them.

But there's, there was also some butting of heads and some friction points as you learn each other and you have, you bring those families of origin into how you, as you said now, how you navigate conflict, how you, how you work, how you maybe discipline your kids, the decisions you make with your kids, husband and wife relationships and what that looks like.

And it's, it is a, you bring all that into a milieu and hey, we're going to work together.

Challenges Challenges can arise.

And so yeah, it's a, it's a unique thing.

And I.

What I would say the other thing is, Chris, is the value of the people I've had the opportunity to serve with.

I probably would have never known them.

And you talk about the gratefulness to God and the gratitude.

It's amazing how God brings.

I'm in a season just of thankfulness for the people that God has brought into my life that I couldn't have orchestrated, I couldn't have planned, I didn't know.

Some of them to help me grow spiritually, some of them to help rub some rough edges off of me, some just at the right time to be wind in my sails and the honor to walk with them in some hard seasons in their life and do the same for them.

And so as you said that, you know, the hardships we'll go through, but also God's greatness and his power in that.

Such a, such a profound word.

Such a profound word.

Anything else on this, Chris?

Yeah, I agree with you.

You know, I look back on some of the things I thought were conflict, you know, my experience, I find that frequently conflict is really misunderstanding.

There's something I didn't know, there's something I didn't understand and that set me at odds with someone.

And once I knew and understood, there was no conflict, you know, it was such a blessing.

And I've learned so much from people I thought I was in conflict with, who were challenging me appropriately and encouraging me, and especially people who were senior to me on the field.

You know, they just knew so much and had so much to share.

And yes, I am so grateful for the people I've had the opportunity to serve with.

And that's actually the favorite part of my job now is the people I get to work with, the people we serve.

It really is like family.

Yes.

Including family conflict, but also including, you know, love and care.

Yeah.

And encouragement.

It's.

It's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah.

The scripture says be kind and tenderhearted, forgiving others as Christ has forgiven you.

You know, I think that the challenge for me, it's not an excuse, it's just, I think a reality in transition.

And when you're at a different setting, that kind and tender hearted thing is sometimes doesn't come natural.

At least it doesn't come natural for Aaron Santa Meyer.

But back to that dependence, as you said, dependence on God and the gratefulness that he helps us in those seasons.

But a verse I've repeated often over the 20 plus years I've been in this line was just to be kind and tenderhearted.

And a lot of times my frustrations with other people were when Aaron was not being kind and tenderhearted.

And so a lot of it fell, fell on me.

One of the things, Chris, you shared was that you shared an acronym to help navigate whether someone is suited to stay and serve.

And I'd like to take a few minutes just to explore these.

So the first two you mentioned were resilience and responsibility.

Could you unpack those?

And maybe the general question is how you've worked on developing this.

And the conversation is we have conversations with people at times we do believe people call, but sometimes it's, it's time for them to return home.

And as they navigate that, I've just found that can be a nebulous conversation.

And so since you shared this to me, I'm like, this is gold.

And I give you credit when I share it, but I'm like, this is, this is a gold piece of gold that we, we need to get out there.

So, yes.

So let's start with maybe generals, general ideas on how you developed it.

And then, and then those Rs of resilience and responsibility.

Well, this is one of those things that truly came from the Lord.

And I can tell you how I know this.

How it occurred to me was a concept in computer technology.

And I am not a computer guy.

I'm pretty technologically challenged.

My team members will tell you that I'm not an IT guy, but I was reflecting on the kinds of things that bring people home or the kinds of things that interfere with people's service and create hardship for them and for others.

And somehow I can only credit the Lord for placing this on my mind.

I thought about the concept of RAM in computers.

And RAM stands for random access memory.

It's essential for performance, responsiveness and efficiency.

And when there's not enough ram, you get significant performance issues, including crashes and freezes.

And so I knew that much about computers because I experienced it.

But then I thought about that, the application to M Life, and came up with this acronym.

Our organization is big on acronyms.

Maybe yours is too.

I'll make some up every now and then just to see if people are paying attention.

They'll say, what's that?

I'll say, I don't know, I just made it up.

But, but, but this one I'm serious about.

And it is rams, R A M S. And so the, the, the rams are responsibility and resilience, agency and accountability, maturity and mentoring and support.

And so if we don't have enough of these rams that we're talking about today.

We're going to struggle on the field and could run the risk of crashing.

And I need to know what my capacities are.

I need to know what my limits are in these areas.

And I need to be before the Lord, seeking him to help me develop these things.

And this is one place we need to be careful because this can sound like worldly business concepts rather than spiritual formations.

And we need to remember Romans 12:2, that we're not to be conformed to the world, but rather transformed by the renewal of our mind.

And so this is about transformation, dependence on the Lord for transformation.

And so we also need to be careful that we're not thinking of these things as things that we're supposed to be doing on our own.

But like the fruit of the Spirit, we're completely dependent on God for these things.

I hate to admit that it was in midlife that I was reflecting on John 15 and read the verse, apart from me, you can do nothing.

I'm in my 40s, and I'm thinking that's, you know, that's really true.

I shared that with my children, and I said, you know, you don't have to wait until your 40s to believe it.

Or I realize that this is really true.

It is absolutely true that apart from him, we can do nothing.

As the Apostle Paul said, it's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.

And so we need to understand that Christ is our source of the rams, and growing in the rams is a response to and a result of his presence, his grace and his power in our lives.

Good word.

Good word, Chris.

And I think that's one of the things I learned in my first term was I thought God was excited for me to go to Burkina Faso.

And then I realized, well, he doesn't really need me.

He wants me to be there.

His kingdom is going to reign, and we know the end of the story, and he invites me to be a part of it, but it's not dependent upon me.

And I say that kind of tongue in cheek.

But there was some of that, as you said, Christmas, learning, Chris, that idea that I couldn't do anything without him, and.

And I needed him in my life each and every day.

So, Chris, when it comes to resilience and responsibility, can you dig a little deeper on those two?

Okay, so.

So in this context, resilience is.

Is like elasticity and flexibility.

I love the.

The scripture.

A bent reed he will not break.

And so how much Can I bend without breaking?

And one thing I'd like to say about this is these are not things that I consider myself an expert or a master in.

These are things that I am learning also and depending on the Lord for also, I've got to grow in resilience.

I need to have the capacity to bend and not break.

And that's a point where we rely on God.

I, on my own, may not be able to handle something, but I can do all things through Christ, who is my strength.

And so that's the resilience in this context is elasticity, flexibility, the capacity to bend and not break.

And then the responsibility in this context is I'm going to own my stuff, I'm going to accept responsibility for me, and I'm not going to engage in blaming others or circumstances.

And we need to note, sometimes others are to blame for stuff, sometimes circumstances are to blame for things.

But I only have control over myself.

That's a quality of the fruit of the Spirit.

And I tell people in counseling if they're struggling in a relationship, when it comes to adult relationships, self control is the name of the game.

And so responsibility is in that category of I'm going to be responsible for myself and my stuff and not blame others.

Wow.

No.

Love it, Chris.

The next level, next letter in that in Rams is a.

And you list accountability, agency.

What are some of the reasons that these two are important?

For somebody that's, as you said, relying on Christ, These are not things that we pursue, produce, center ourselves, are we.

But we're dependent upon him.

But as you look in that resilience or the ability to stay on the field and function, those two words come to mind.

Yeah, I'm going to start with agency.

And in this context, agency could be described as initiative, self control, self determination, but not in isolation.

In the context of community, I'm in a mission community.

Even if I'm geographically far from other people on my team or in my organization or other mission organizations, I could be out there solo, but I'm.

But I am in a missional context that involves others.

And of course I'm among locals, and so that's going to be part of my community.

So agency can sound like independence in this context, but it's really about initiative, self control, self determination, all under God.

So when we use the word self, we got to be careful because it's again, a reference to Paul's statement.

It's no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me.

And he, through the Holy Spirit, is guiding myself.

I'M dependent on him for these things.

But I've got to have enough agency to be able to get myself up in the morning and get myself out the door.

It's not that I don't need God's grace or help with what awaits me out the door.

But that's what I mean by agency is that ability to take initiative and be a self starter to a certain extent, all under the grace and guidance of God and with his help.

And then accountability is an awareness of the others around me and relating to them responsibly and appropriately.

And that can almost sound like a contrast to agency.

Like hey, wait a minute, you're talking about initiative and self starting and self determination.

But again not in isolation with awareness of the others around me and relating to them responsibly and appropriately, which includes humility and faithfulness to God and to them.

So I'm accountable to God and to others for myself and my relationships.

Yeah, I love this Chris, because I, it just gives, I'm a structure guy, I'm a science guy.

So this gives this, I think it gives great structure one for me to pray through, you know, because you once again back to that.

We're dependent on Christ.

I think it gives a structure for me to pray through and say God help me grow.

I'm dependent on you for my resilience.

Growing in responsibility, agency and accountability.

Because I think sometimes we can, like I said, as I said earlier, it becomes nebulous, this idea.

But it just, I love it because it gives, it gives structure and so it's been something that it helps me pray through.

Yeah.

In this season of life.

So the next letter was M. So maturity and mentoring.

How can these two impact missionaries ability to serve?

And then I'm going to ask you about what healthy mentoring looks like.

Okay, so maturity in this context is mental, emotional, relational and spiritual capacity.

Some people like to refer to emotional intelligence.

That's certainly included in here, that concept.

But mental, emotional, relational and spiritual capacity.

And this is something we're growing in.

And the reason I put maturity first ahead of mentoring is by the time someone gets in the application process to become a missionary, there should be a certain level of maturity there.

But prior to that, mentoring is first, you know, I'm not going to have this, this maturity, especially in this context without the mentoring of some, some people who have gone before me.

And these could be people person or they could be people who've lived before us.

Like I've got this group of mentors I refer to as the dead guys.

They're people like C.S.

Lewis and G.K. chesterton.

And you know, they've had a big impact on my life, but they're now deceased.

But their writings live on and I've learned so much from them.

But then also people in person, like I mentioned Dr. Jerry Rankin, who mentored me when I was on his team in Southeast Asia and many, many others.

When we went to the field, there was no member care, but we found our leadership and our team members to be so caring and supportive that we felt very well cared for.

We're grateful that there is member care now, but we're also grateful that there are others not on the member care team who are also caring and supportive and serve a mentoring role for our personnel working overseas.

And then mentoring is basically training for growth and development in these things.

Yeah, and you know, I can learn from someone that I might be mentoring.

You know, they may have a piece that I've not been aware of that they contribute to me.

So to be on the lookout for, to be mutual and reciprocal, it's not necessarily one way, but it is important to have those so called seniors who've gone before us and are able to speak into our lives to help us grow this capacity.

Healthy mentoring.

Chris, any, any thoughts on that?

Yes.

Healthy mentoring I think looks like what Paul describes in Titus 2.

Teach what is appropriate to sound doctrine and set an example by doing what is good.

It.

And Dallas Willard refers to us in the discipleship context as apprentices of Jesus.

And I love that concept.

You know, we can wear out a word like disciple and discipleship, but when I think about apprenticeship, I have a strong concept of what an apprentice is.

I've got friends who are in the trades and they have apprentices and I know them well enough to know how that works.

And so an apprentice is someone who attaches himself or herself to a master and observes not only what they say but also what they do and puts that into practice themselves under the guidance of the master and then becomes a master themselves like a master plumber or master electrician.

And so to have those kinds of people in our lives, this would include elements of teaching, training, wise counsel, example, and providing opportunities to practice to become proficient and able.

I love what Jesus said after he washed the disciples feet.

He said, now that you know these things, you'll be blessed if you do them.

You know, he set an example of serving even, even the lowliest needs, no matter who you are being willing to do that.

And, and I know it's true in your organization it's True.

In ours, we place a high priority and value on servant leadership.

And I've seen this in our senior leadership, who are great mentors.

If we'll observe them and follow them even as they observe and follow Christ, as the Apostle Paul said, you know, that, that we can, we can learn so much to put into application, that will be a blessing to us and others if we'll do so.

Yeah, good.

Good word, Chris.

Got one.

Well, we got the letter S, and then I got one or two more questions for you, and then I'm going to ask you, see if you'll pray for us.

So the last letter in Rams is S. And what does healthy support look like on the field?

And maybe one home assignment also.

So what does that, what does that healthy support look like?

Yeah.

So first and foremost, it's prayer support.

You know, before returning to imb, I worked in another nonprofit setting and learned pretty quickly.

I can work really hard raising funds, but really what I need to be doing first is praying.

And not just about fundraising.

I learned from the beginning of ministry that a large part of, say, sermon preparation is prayer.

You know, I'm not in the Word, I'm not facing the commentaries.

I'm on my face before the Lord in prayer.

And there's no greater support than prayer support, whether it's me praying or other people praying for me.

And when we served, our Women's Missionary union kept a calendar of missionary birthdays.

And so people who were following that calendar were praying for you on your birthday.

And I could tell you that the seven greatest days in our seven years of overseas service were my birthdays.

Not because I was having fun celebrating, but because people were praying for me and things were happening, you know, and there is power in prayer.

So first and foremost, prayer support and these things we know we need financial support.

And I believe God's going to provide.

It doesn't mean we shouldn't ask or fundraise.

The Lord will lead us in that and lead others to give.

It's not something we have to generate.

God's going to move in our life and in our supporters lives, our financial supporters lives.

But we do need financial support.

It costs to be where we are in some places a lot more than others.

We need logistical support.

I need someone to help me, whether it's a team member or a local.

I know I need someone to help me arrange housing and transportation and schooling for my kids if I have them.

So logistical support is important.

I need strategic support.

I don't know everything about where I'm going I need people who know to help me identify what strategies are going to be effective here.

And I need care, whether it's medical care or member care in the form of pastoral care and counseling, other types of encouragement or advocacy as needed and appropriate.

And so that's a, that can sound like a contrast to agency, too.

Hey, if I've got agency, why do I need advocacy?

We really need both.

You know, there could be a limit to my agency and a point where I need an advocate.

And of course, thank the Lord we have an advocate in Jesus Christ.

Amen.

But also we need the advocacy of our brothers and sisters, whether they're in the US Praying for us and supporting us in these ways, or on the field with us, serving alongside us.

And this leads to another S, which is sustain.

I can sustain being there by God's grace with his help, if I have these kinds of support.

Yeah, good, good words, Chris.

I love.

Love the, love the structure of it and love the, the acronym.

It's.

It's helping me, and I believe it's going to help those who are listening into this.

Chris, one last question, and then I'm going to ask you to pray for us.

What are some intentional steps someone can take during their transition to and from the field?

That's a great question, because it's a huge transition.

And yeah, it's, you know, going to the field for the first time is a huge life change and transition, and then returning each time can be a big transition.

We were on the field over four years before we returned for the first time to the US and we did experience reverse culture shock.

You know, we, we thought things had changed so greatly, but really the changes were in us.

There were changes in the US but.

But it was really a lot of change in us that had happened, and we really had to adjust and adapt after that first term.

But returning can also be in the context of retirement.

And, and I think retirement in any context is one of life's bigger transitions.

And so we need to know intentional steps to take when we're going through these kinds of transitions.

So the first thing is identify and engage appropriate ways to move through the stress of the transition.

Those transitions are stressful.

And we speak of transition generally as including an ending of something and in between or neutral zone and then a new beginning.

And so ending can involve a sense of loss and grief.

Even if you're coming back for a short stateside, you're leaving people and work behind and you're going to have feelings about that, including grief and a sense of Loss in ways.

And then you can feel disoriented in the in between and the neutral zone and then challenged in the new beginning.

Like when we go overseas for the first time, you know, our personnel are coming out of roles in which they, they've been leaders, even experts, and, and then they're going to a place where, where they're an ignorant outsider.

You know, and ignorant doesn't mean stupid.

It means I. I don't know.

It's true.

It's true.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I have the traffic tickets from driving in Bangkok prove how ignorant I was.

And some of my first opportunities there were with the police officers who stopped me for traffic stop, you know, so, so that's a, that's a challenge.

So, so what do we need for that?

We, we need spiritual and emotional support.

We need to know healthy ways to grieve the losses that we're experiencing and the emotions that swirl around that.

We need to know how to say goodbye.

Whether it's just for, for a time or, or possibly permanently if I'm coming home for the last time or coming to the US for the last time.

By that time, home feels like we're observed.

Yeah.

And the US Feels like the, the foreign setting.

I need to know how to connect purposefully and meaningfully in my new setting.

And so going to the field, we need orientation and preparation.

Returning from the field, we need debriefing and reentry orientation and follow up.

And that follow up is so important.

I've heard from so many M's who retired that they felt acknowledged and honored at their retirement, but then dropped after that.

And that follow up is so important.

And so we're starting to use the language with churches.

Think of yourselves not only as a sending church, but also a receiving church.

You're sending people out, but then you're receiving them back when they return, for whatever reason, at whatever time.

And how do we receive them?

Well.

And support and encourage them well on returning.

Wow.

Good word, Chris.

It's been an honor to spend some time with you today and thanks for sharing your wisdom and your insight.

Chris, will you pray for us that God will use this conversation to encourage those that are listening in and.

Yeah.

Will you pray for us today?

Yes, I'd be happy to.

Thank you, Father.

We are so grateful to you that these things we've talked about today are from you.

You are so tender and merciful and gracious and kind.

You are so understanding and compassionate and responsive to us.

And you give us what we need to be sustained in life and in the work that you call us to, I pray that anyone listening to this podcast will remember that they are a person in whom you delight.

You love them, you find great pleasure in them.

When we're in a different setting, perhaps feeling alone and isolated, it's easy for us to be hard on ourselves, but that's not your attitude towards us.

I pray that everyone listening to this would know that they are a precious, beloved child of yours in whom you delight and just by your grace, take that to heart and be blessed in that and blessed in your presence.

Lord, it is a privilege to be about your work.

As Erin acknowledged earlier, you don't need us for this, but you desire us for it.

And it's a privilege to follow you in the work that you're doing around the world.

World, may we always remember that it's your work, not our work, and the greater part of it is yours.

And we can count on you for your part and we can count on you to help us with our part.

And so I pray that we'll be encouraged in that way and that this will be a source of assurance in your spirit and confidence in your spirit that we can live wherever we are in the world, doing whatever you have us do in the world, with a great sense of your presence, your goodness, your help, your encouragement and your support that it's truly well with us and we are truly kept in your peace.

In Jesus name, Amen.

Amen.