Angela's 43 and farms beef, dairy and arable crops, but years of physical graft are already taking their toll. Living with arthritis, she says she's feeling "pretty worn and torn" and worries about what the future might hold. The AG Show catches up with her to hear how she manages the day-to-day realities of farming with the condition.

It comes as researchers at the University of Worcester look into the impact arthritis is having across the farming industry. Their study hopes to build a clearer picture of the challenges farmers face and identify practical ways to help, from lifestyle and diet changes to simple adaptations on farm.

Also on this week's show, we bring you the latest on bluetongue, the Sustainable Farming Incentive and a newly launched BYDV tool designed to help growers manage risk.

And away from the day job, find out which member of the team has taken a plunge into open water swimming, and who's set themselves the challenge of eating their way around Britain's bakeries.

SOME USEFUL BITS (FROM AHDB & BEYOND)

Arthritis + Farmers

Bluetongue virus latest news | AHDB

Heatwaves, drought and dairy resilience: How farmers are coping in 2026

Sustainable Farming Incentive 2026 (SFI26): scheme information - GOV.UK

SFI cost benefit tool | AHDB Tools

BYDV tool

GET IN TOUCH

Charlotte, Hannah, Phil and Producer Martin would love to hear what you think! Got feedback, stories, or ideas for future episodes? Drop them a message at [email protected].

Sign up to the AHDB Preference Centre so that you can:

• Easily update your preferences and contact information
• Get information on the latest AHDB events, webinars, market insights and more
• Receive important updates such as disease alerts

I love open water swimming, so I was like, let's try and indoctrinate everyone else in the team to come and do it too.

I didn't go. I was too slow to book into the lake, which I think it's funny that a lake can be full of people. No more room.

The best quote of it was, well, that was a lot less worse than I thought it was going to be. So that's a glowing review really, isn't it? I think.

Was it your idea?

Yeah. I thought, let's go and do something social and usually it's like, oh, we're gonna go for lunch and we go to like a really dire pub near the office.

And yeah, it was really good and I think it helped the water.

I think the water was like 21 degrees, so it's pretty warm still now, Obviously I'm quite comfortable with open water swimming, but listeners, if you are not. And Hannah, Phil, I don't expect you to go out because I don't know how comfortable you are with it either.

Make sure someone knows where you're going. Make sure it's somewhere that is safe and that you're allowed to be. Have a toe float if you be sensible.

Can I just say, I don't think Charlotte was mentioning the two pubs that are the closest to hq because I have frequented them and I do like to frequent them. So I don't agree with that statement if it was directed at those two.

Hi, I'm Phil Maiden.

I'm Hannah Clarke.

I'm Charlotte Forkes-Rees and welcome to The AG Show.

On this week's show, we're focusing on arthritis and its impact on farming.

I feel like I'm at the beginning and I really worry about what I'm going to be like when I'm 80 years old. I know I will be crippled.

Angela is one of several to already take part in a study that looks to understand how those working on farm adapt to help produce. Guidance on how best to live and work with the condition.

If you've got a person who's avoiding doing things or stopping doing things, that has an implication for productivity and it affects potentially the farmer's bottom line as well.

Plus, we've got a roundup of some more topics of note that are affecting farmers right now, including blue tongue.

And a reminder, new episodes of the Ag show drop every Wednesday at midday. Available wherever you get your podcasts.

And we've got audio and video versions available for every show. Just make sure you subscribe so you.

Don't miss and do get in touch. We love hearing from you. Comment on any of our social posts or email agshowdb.org UK Arthritis might be.

Something many people associate with getting older, but for farmers, it's a condition that can make an already tough job even harder. A new University of Worcester study is exploring how arthritis affects people working in agriculture and and what more can be done to support them.

You may recall on last week's show I spoke to Angela Turney, who farms dairy, beef and arable near the Malvern Hills, talking about the impact the hot, dry summer has had on her business. Well, she's back again, this time to share her experience of living with arthritis while keeping the farm running.

Now, I spoke to Angela as well as one of the study team, Dr. Victoria Jones, earlier and I began by asking Angela when she first realised arthritis was becoming a problem.

Well, my story kind of goes back to the beginning of time, so I've always walked with a limp. My entire family walk with limps. Everyone seems to be. It's either a psychological or a physical farmer's limp that we have in our family.

It turns out in my 20s I was diagnosed with hip dysplasia and I hadn't got any hip sockets, so they were literally like flat. So they were completely worn out. So I had both of my hips reconstructed, which was pretty mega.

And off the back of that, follow up scans have shown that they were almost so worn that I've got arthritis in my hips. So they're both on borrowed time and hip replacements are imminent.

But I kind of keep going and trying to eke out as long as I can before I have to have one. I've also got arthritis diagnosed in my left knee and I'm actually going for cortisone injections tomorrow, so it's quite timely.

I've got terrible shoulders, effectively my whole body is broken and it's a gradual thing. I wouldn't say there's been a pinpoint in time where it went wrong. I think just wear and tear.

I mean, I'm 43, I shouldn't have this much wear and tear, but I'm pretty worn and torn and then obviously.

You're farming on top of all that.

Yeah. So it's chicken and egg. I think the farming definitely doesn't help.

It's physical and you're constantly pushing your body to the limits and you keep going on despite the pain and despite the tiredness. Probably definitely not helping.

Working in wet, damp conditions, milking, parlours, wellies, heavy mud laden waterproofs and the winter is definitely worse for me than the summer. Footwear is a massive thing. I talked to Victoria about the subject when we talked about the study.

Heavy boots, heavy wellies, really unsupported footwear in the winter is a killer at the moment. I can't believe I'm saying this, but Crocs and Skechers are my go to.

Not the coolest of things, but they're lightweight, they're easy to slip on and it's a complete game changer in the summer for me.

Yeah.

Oh, you definitely don't knock Crocs. You're in the right audience here. I've got a couple of pairs. They're brilliant.

Oh, my. You milking a pair of Crocs and you just rinse your feet off afterwards. It's amazing.

So can you tell us a bit, Angela, about your system, about your farm?

Yeah. So we are. I'm fifth generation beef, dairy and arable farmers.

So we're farming in Hani Swan, Worcestershire, in the shadow of the Malvern Hills, where the rain shadow of the Malvern Hills. So we are super dry at the moment, like unbelievably dry. We milk 300 cows. We've got just under 900 head of cattle at the moment. And we are carving.

We've just started carvings for autumn block. I've just, literally, before I raced in here to do this, flew out in the field and tagged eight carves. So we've definitely got going and started.

So, yeah, the physical wear and tear really starts to kick in for me now because calving is pretty brutal. It's long hours bending down, manhandling calves. It just does a lot on my legs.

I was going to say that you've got a lot going on on farm. Are there any particular jobs that you really struggle with?

Pretty tired after a milking. When we're milking 300, it's three, three and a half hours. It's just up and down on concrete, up and down steps, twisting, leaning. I know that's.

I can definitely feel when I've done quite a few milkings in a row on my back and my shoulders, everything. And I think people who milk cows have quite a lot of physical, repetitive, sprained shoulders.

This shoulder, for me is a killer and that's the one I put the clusters on with. So, yeah, you notice that there's certain things that build up as problems. Yeah.

I mean, it's hard enough if you're. If you don't have something like arthritis, but I mean, how have you managed to adapt how you work on farm?

This is bonkers. But I don't stop. If I stop, it's so the wrong thing. So people will say, oh sit down, you must be tired or have a break, you're tired.

If I stop, I can't get going again. So someone will say sit down. I'm like, no, no, I'm good stood up. So it's not exactly a solution.

But the whole keep calm and carry on thing is definitely applicable. So I spend a lot of my time on the go and then I crash when I stop. Probably.

I've already alluded to footwear, painkillers, possibly things like how I step up or down from machinery. I subconsciously have probably now trying to be much more careful about high impact or jolting, jolting things.

But in the heat at the moment when you're racing around and you're busy, you tend to just disengage the brain and just crack on with what's job in hand. So I'm not exactly the best one to talk about how to overcome these problems because I seem to be creating them faster than I'm solving them.

Well, it's, you just, you have to carry on especially like, well, with any farming but you know, milking cows especially, you've got to do it every day, twice a day, three times. You just, as you say, you can't stop. You just have to manage and crack on almost.

Angela, your arthritis has affected and affects how you work on farm. I wonder how has it affected your life beyond farming?

I used to love to run and that was kind of my mindfulness. Go and just ramp around some fields, have some headspace and go run, running. That's completely out the question now.

I've taken up rowing as an alternative which I quite enjoy because it's not so high impact, although it is repetitive injury so I probably should take up knitting or something. But it doesn't really affect my life other than the fact that I think I probably don't go crazy like I probably used to when I was younger.

But maybe that's just age, but I'm conscious like if we go to a wedding I won't wear the highest heels anymore because I know the next day I'll be suffer or if I'm tired and achy and all my friends are going out. I just think now I've stopped and now I just need to just take the weight off and to get going again is quite hard work.

So it's probably only marginal things that it affects. But I think it starts, it does start to affect your social life. My Motivation.

So time with my family, when I come in the evening, they'll all tell you that I just crash out and lose interest and sort of vegetate. My daughters in the background nodding now. So I'm probably. I almost.

I'm running my body to the limits and then when I stop, I stop and I don't really make much time for anything else beyond farming.

And that's a hell of a toll that's taken on your body.

Yeah. I think my greater concern is I feel like I'm at the beginning and I really worry about what I'm gonna be like when I'm 80 years old.

I know I will be crippled. That makes me really sad because I feel like I know what the end game is and I know that I'm going to be bent over doubled.

I'm going to be walking with an even more pronounced limp than I do now. I'm going to have. I mean, these fingers, you know, they're all clicky and crunchy. I'm still be a gnarly old woman probably sooner than I should.

I feel like I'm aging faster than I probably deserve to be, and that's really difficult.

What sort of advice would you have to any other farmers who might, you know, think I might have the start of arthritis or they might be struggling with similar symptoms and they've not, you know, gone to a doctor and sorted it?

I think my advice to any farmer, which is ironic because I don't actually take my own advice, is to look after yourself, to not burn out and not push yourself to the limit. But then I'm talking to farmers and we're all the same. We're our own worst enemy and we do keep going.

We're so resilient that I think it's an interesting study because I think. I assume that most people you're talking to have got the same mentality as me. I'll put my animals before myself.

So I was going to say, yeah, there definitely is a bit that bit of that. But one thing that is coming through is the difference between farmers and farm workers.

So farm workers obviously can walk away from the farm after their shift in the way that you can't. And that's relentlessness is very much a pressure on farmers.

Whereas farm workers that I've talked to have talked to me about doing things like yoga and Pilates in order to sort of help their body. But I'm sure. I know you do, Rowan. Angela. But I'm sure yoga and Pilates is time consuming for you as well.

On top of everything else I was going to say about preventative stuff, another thing that's come through which, unsolicited by me, people are giving advice to their younger selves or to young farmers. And one of the key advice is not to push your young body too much just because you can do things, not not to do them.

So they're saying to me, if you can pass on one piece of advice, could you pass that on to young farmers?

One female farmer said to me, you have to remember, you know, when you're sort of 17, 18, your body still isn't formed and so you think you're invincible and you can do everything and your whole life is ahead of you. But now I'm looking back and I really wish I hadn't done half the things that I'd done.

I'm definitely in that category. And now I'm mid-40s and I'm thinking, I feel like I've brought my 80s, probably into my 60s, you know, sort of thing.

I definitely feel like I've pushed my body and now I'm paying the price, for sure. I say I go rowing. This sums things up. It's been so busy and manic with the dry weather, the drought, feeding cattle and stuff.

I haven't made time to go rowing for three months. So it kind of says it all. I was going twice a week.

So again, it kind of shows that we're terrible at making time for ourselves when we're putting farming first or always, certainly before our bodies. And when you say cures, I mean in terms of treatment and cures, I mean, there isn't one, is there?

It's just a case of managing something that you've done to yourself. Or is it genetic? Or is it. I mean, I don't really know enough about arthritis to know. Should I be making sure that my daughters get checked for?

I mean, they've been checked for hip dysplasia, so they don't have to go through the same operation I did, which was pretty invasive. But how can we tell we're going to get arthritis before we get arthritis? We can't, can we?

Arthritis uk, who are one of our funders of the study, the other being the Nuffield Health Foundation. It's not conclusive.

And in the general population the statistic is around 17%. So you can see there's quite a bit different.

So obviously that's not good statistics I'm giving there because we, you know, that's a Farmers Weekly was a small sample, but it kind of is indicative when anecdotally, when I'm out and about and I'm talking to farmers, more people say they've got it and don't say they've got it.

And that kind of statistic, I guess, backs up why you're doing your study as well. Yeah.

So our study isn't statistical, so all. So one of the things that we're doing that's different is talking to farmers.

So farmers such as Angela about their lived experience of farming with arthritis. There's been quite a few previous studies globally, with big clusters in Sweden, South Korea, Australia and America.

But they rely more on clinicians reports and health surveys like the Farmers Weeklies one, and actually asking people what it's like to live and work with arthritis as farmers and farm workers. That's the thing that hasn't really been done before.

So that's the gap that we're kind of fulfilling and where we're kind of working towards is a report. One of the things is a report that farmers and farming organizations can use to then say this is what it's actually like to farm with arthritis.

And another sort of thing that we're working towards is some information about living well whilst farming with arthritis. And then we're going to do some stuff with young farmers around prevention. That's where the study is kind of working its way towards.

And we'll have more details of the survey when we pick up the conversation with Angela Turney and Dr. Victoria Jones a little later in the show.

You're listening to the ACT show now. We haven't done it for a while, but let's take a look at some stories that have been catching our attention in the news.

If you don't mind, guys, I'll go first. It's quite an important one, really.

We know blue tongue's been a major ongoing concern for many farmers across the country and we've already seen a huge surge of cases in the southwest of BTV3. The disease is expected to continue spreading into the early autumn and at the moment the predictions are it could peak at the end of September.

Well, this is now getting talked about a lot more. And in the mainstream media, it's been discussed on ITV and Good Morning Britain and as well on various parts of the BBC.

And I noticed on the BBC website, the news website, one Shropshire farmer Richard Yates has been speaking about the risk that farmers face with considerable losses in livestock. He's actually vaccinated his sheep and cattle and he's very much urging others to do the same.

One issue he's also raised in his conversation with the BBC is farmers being able to get hold of a vaccine.

So I thought it's worth us pointing out that we know Ruminant Health and Welfare are saying all three main vaccine suppliers are working to bring additional stock into the UK at the moment in response to the exceptional demand that they've had. And significant deliveries are expected for wholesalers and further European stocks being explored over the coming weeks.

So it's hoped that there will be enough vaccine to be available for those that need it. And the key message remains that it's not too late to vaccinate.

And if you're a farmer looking to source vaccine for your livestock, please go and talk to your vet as soon as you possibly can. Finally, I just wanted to say that if you do have a suspected case of blue tongue on your farm, please report it immediately.

And bear in mind it is a notifiable disease, so you should be reporting it by law.

If you want to find out more about the virus and how it's been impacting farmers and vets across the country, then please listen to our Ag show episode that we published on 12 August. Everything discussed in that episode remains very relevant now.

Yeah, good one to flag there again, Phil. Charlotte, what have you been reading about this week?

I have been looking at updates that there are for the sustainable farming incentive. So the government has announced an extra 50 million pounds, which would take the SFI 26 budget to 290 million.

This increase is very much going to be welcome, as I'm sure you can appreciate, because how many of our farm businesses have been facing high costs, lower outputs and drought pressures? That would be all of them.

Now, currently we are at the end of window one and that is going to close no later than 28th of August, so in literally just a couple of days. And the second application window is due to open September, with the exact dates announced by DEFRA after window one has closed.

With this additional funding being added to the second SFI application window, it's increasing its budget for that second window from 180 million to 230 million. Pounds.

Farmers are also going to benefit from temporary flexibilities within the ELMS agreements, including removal of grazing and cutting restrictions, permissions to establish fire breaks on land, and more time to establish actions where the dry conditions have made planting seed mixes impossible.

But do note these are temporary adjustments and there is full guidance available on the government website which I'll make sure is linked in the show notes.

And I think my really key takeaway would be just encouraging farmers to start prepping now and making use of the SFI Cost Benefit tool which we have on our website.

And that will really help with assessing actually the likely financial returns of different SFI actions on that individual farm business per farm basis.

So the tool is really there to help make informed decisions ahead of application windows closing and just really can help you with deciding what's going to work well on your farm. So also make sure that that's linked below too. Hannah, you been reading anything interesting?

I have.

Mine is kind of crop specific, it's more combinations of letters but we did speak about this a few weeks ago like the other stuff, but barley yellow dwarf virus, BYDV's BiB come quite a bit more of a problem in recent years and we've just launched a new tool to help growers manage the risk of BYDV in their crops. So the new tool considers many more risk factors than the previous tool that was used, the Aphid TSOM tool, and that's been around for several years.

But this, this tool goes one step further. It's based on decades of aphid biology, science, virus epidemiology studies and computer modeling and its also puts crop economics at its heart.

So you can use the tool to make informed sowing, date and risk based spray decisions for BYDV susceptible varieties.

The tool has been developed in conjunction with farmers to make sure that it's practical, that it's easy to use and it actually makes a difference on farm.

Our research shows that using it alongside local knowledge can reduce the number of insecticide applications and protect more yield than the previous TSOM tool did where BYDV is present in crops. So we'll put a link to the tool and more information about it in the show notes, but please do go and check that out.

A little bit of a light hearted one now to end our new section. Martin, I'm sure your ears are gonna perk up at this.

I saw in the grocer that Gregg's is bringing out its new autumn menu and the steak and Stilton bake is gonna be back. How pleased are you about that.

Oh, great stuff, great stuff. Love a bit of steak and Stilton.

It's had a seven year hiatus which I can't get over because I feel like I remember them not that long ago. So pretty good that it's back, especially with some of the challenges that have been going on with beef prices.

I think I'm gonna have a look.

At this Greg's autumn menu because I'm gonna see what else is on there because I'm not gonna lie, I'm not a massive fan of Stilton. I like a cheese but not Stilton because what else is gonna tickle my fancy other than the classic sausage, bean and cheese melt?

What about a buffalo chicken pizza slice possibly you're gonna. Oh, I'm happy. Pumpkin spice latte's gonna come back. They've got that coming back on 3rd of September and that's my wedding anniversary.

So I might get Mrs. Charlotte, Mrs. Charlotte, Mr. Charlotte to go and take me for a Gregg's date to go and get a pumpkin spice latte at Greggs.

Now. Why couldn't I marry someone like you? A very cheap date.

I'm just happy to go out.

Other bakeries are available, by the way, there are lots of other very nice bakeries. Point out I've been to an independent local bakery today because obviously all of my food is baked.

Let's return to our big topic this week, arthritis. We all know farming is a hands on job, so when arthritis gets in the way, it can have a huge impact on everyday life.

Which is why a team from the University of Worcester wants to hear from farmers, farm workers and their families to better understand the challenges they're facing and the ways they're adapting to keep doing the job that they love.

Earlier we heard from Dr. Victoria Jones, who's leading the project, as well as dairy, beef and arable farmer Angela Turney. I asked Victoria if they've got any early findings that she was able to share.

One of the key things which is sort of different from the American study.

So in the American study, which is a bigger study of farming and disability which has gone on for 20 years, they talk a lot about adaptations and about physical adaptations around technology. So people padding out gear sticks or adjusting seat heights or making sort of homemade kind of technical changes to, you know, their machinery.

But what I found so far, so we're early doors, so the next lot of people I interview might say something different, but at the moment people are saying that the adaptations that they make are something that Angela mentioned just doing something differently I. E. Coming out of the tractor differently, but more people are saying about avoiding things, minimizing doing things or stopping doing things because they're worried about accidents. So that's another thing that's come through is people's fear of having accidents on the back of having arthritis.

You're probably talking to the most accident prone farmer that's ever been on this podcast. And some of my accidents have definitely been as a result of aches and pains, so I can definitely endorse that one, that's for sure.

But people are talking about things that they just used to do, you know, as a matter of course, didn't think twice about it, but, you know, things like rewiring things, which they would just normally do, and then when their fingers are going, they just feel frightened that they might not do it properly. For example, accidents that has, you know, big implications.

In a farm, if you've got a person who's avoiding doing things or stopping doing things, that has an implication for productivity, for example.

Even the kind of slowing your mobility, which then affects your ability to do stuff, affects productivity and then affects potentially the farmer's bottom line as well.

It also, I think, makes us frustrated. So when you think, oh, God, I used to be able to do that and I can't do it anymore.

So my dad suffers with arthritis and there's things that I know he used to do without a second thought and now he's like, oh, I can't lift that anymore, I can't do that. Or my hands don't work like that. I step in and I help him.

But I can see that he's frustrated at the fact that he's having to ask for help, which we're also not very good at as farmers, to ask for help. So. Yeah, that's definitely true.

Yeah.

So that's another thing that's come through from gps is that if a farmer comes in to the surgery, then they know it's a kind of serious condition because they will leave it to the last minute before they come in. So it's. If they've come in, they know it must be coming to extreme.

Yeah, I mean, I think farmers are quite well known in the NHS for, like, there's a limb falling off and they're like, oh, I think I need to get this seen to sort of thing. I think we're pretty good at either doing homemade remedies or using uddermint. Like, my whole family are sponsored.

Like, there's not many people that go to bed with a tube of uddermint. Next to their bed as like a deep heat solution sort of thing.

My sister just sponsored cycle ride up to Blackpool and they were sponsored by Uddermint and they just. Which was quite telling. A young pharmace one I only know I have arthritis because of the other problems I've had.

I haven't been to go and have my arthritis diagnosed. They've X rayed me to see how my hips are and they've said you have arthritis.

My knee is a problem at the moment and I've got all sorts of tendon ligament issues and he's like you've got arthritis in your knee. So it's almost like even talking to you with somebody with arthritis it's only by default that I found out I've got it.

It's not because I've actively wanted to get a diagnosis. I think we almost self diagnose ourselves and think well I've got arthritis in my hip, it hurts, there's not much I can do about it.

So what's the point in going to the doctors for them to tell me that I need to rest or go to pilates?

You know, don't, please don't give me physio exercises because you know, I think when you, when you've, when you've had a day on your feet, the last thing you want to do is then feel like you're pushing your body, which is wrong because I know you should be doing it but turns out I'm really bad at helping myself.

I think just on the diagnosis point I think that's quite an interesting one. Victoria, if people want to get involved in the survey, do they need a diagnosis to take part?

No. So farmers are really good at self diagnosis like as Angela just alluded to. So no.

To be part of the study you can have a clinical diagnosis or you can be self diagnosed and we talked.

About it's not only the impact on yourself with arthritis, it also affects the rest of the family. So is that something that you're looking to capture in your study as well?

Yeah, definitely.

So at the Moment we're recruiting 30 people for initial interview, so a one hour interview and talking to them about their history of their farming career and the history of their arthritis and aspects of their practices and processes around farming and also how they navigate and adapt their arthritis around their farm work. But amongst those 30 people, we then want to recruit 10 who we'll do a more intensive study with and look at the families as well.

So at the moment we haven't got to that part of the study. We're still recruiting for the 30 and we're looking for people who are either diagnosed or self diagnosed with arthritis.

And it can be any form of arthritis as well.

Often people have multiple forms at the same time and often don't realise they've got multiple forms, might have focused in on one and not realize they've got other ones. The study is based predominantly in Worcestershire and Herefordshire and so we will come to people's farms in those areas.

However, we will talk to people who are from other counties in the UK and where we want to do that and we'll talk to those people on Zoom. You have to be over 18 and you have to be willing to be recorded. So they're the criteria.

And if there's anyone listening that thinks they might want to get in touch and get involved in this survey, how can they do that?

Yeah, so we've got a website, arthritisandfarmers.wp.worc.ac.uk so that's a mouthful. Arthritisandfarmers.wp.worp.ac.uk but I'm also aware that there are people who would prefer to write to us, us in physically snail mail.

So if they write to the arthritis and farmers. University of Worcester Faculty of Science and the Environment and the postcode is. I've written it down, WR26AJ. It will get to me.

And we have had people write to us, which has been absolutely extraordinary because we're so unused to getting physical letters about things. It's a real treat when somebody writes a letter to us. It's just so cool.

Like having a pen pal.

Yeah. No, but it's just so lovely because we just don't get letters anymore, do we?

They're so special.

Not handwritten letters like that. No.

So Victoria came to my house, which is. It was lovely because it was like an hour off from the farm, but I was still doing something worthwhile. And it was quite a good therapy session.

Session, actually. Victoria asked me lots of interesting questions that I didn't think were going to be relevant, like why'd you farm?

And there was kind of a bit of a buildup to sort of, you know, what's it like, and things like that. And actually quite enlightening because you don't really.

I mean, as much as I moan about aching and stuff, but I've never really moaned to somebody who's actually really wanting to know about my moans and be really kind of quite interested in them rather than just going, shut up, Angela. So, yeah, it was really good. So, effectively, it's an hour's worth of free therapy if nothing else.

So, yeah, there's incentive to do it.

I know.

No, Angela was brilliant. And, yeah, so if you're like Angela, you find yourself under the cosh, really, and very busy.

I try to be as efficient as I can with the interviews, so I'm not taking up too much of your time. And the time that we have is productive as well.

I think my main thing to add is that as farmers, we're pretty dedicated to what we do, and that's why we very stupidly put our bodies through what we put them through. But we put our animals first, the welfare of our animals.

We prioritize the weather and getting work done around these crazy, extreme weathers we're having. And then we seem to put ourselves right down at the bottom of the list.

And it's almost like when we can't carry on doing that, that's when we decide to get help. And then we become really useless because we're accident prone. Like me being in pain makes me tired. I go to bed at night with this.

I describe it as a hot coal burning inside my hip. And nothing, no amount of positions, pillows, anything I can do to alleviate that.

And so I have a bad night's sleep, and then I wake up in the morning to milk, and it's like Groundhog Day doing it all over again. And my biggest regret is probably getting into this position or maybe not doing more to help myself.

Probably being a tight farmer and not investing in better footwear. From a hip and knee point of view, I would say that footwear is the be all and end all.

I mean, when Victoria came to see me, I made a lift up my wellies and my winter waterproofs that were dry. And I said, this is the weight of what I'm carrying around with me, let alone the jacket, let alone the mud and everything else.

And we're dragging our bodies with this, effectively a backpack, you know, all the time. You know, weight on your shoulders.

Footwear is a real big thing for me that I think could massively change those that wear wellies 16, 18 hours a day, because wellies are terrible for our feet. We all know that. And because I get through so many wellies, because Calmuk just seems to eat wellies alive. I don't spend. I won't go and spend.

But some people go and spend hundreds of pounds on a pair of high heels they wear once or twice. And I'm wearing wellies seven days a week for hours and hours. I'm not making the investment in footwear. And that was a big mistake.

The scope there for somebody, though, because I had a look after our conversation of what was available on the market. And the good ones are really expensive and that's out of some people's reach. So kind of cheap or affordable ones that are.

That have good footbed inside and are not going to wear out out so quickly. I think if somebody brings those to market and then they quids in, probably.

I know I maybe should do that. Can we keep that out of this? And I can like make my fortune.

As a business.com or something. I tell you what, there'd be a. Yeah. Big market.

Yeah.

They just. You can't have zips because zips and calm up don't work. They can't be Velcro because Velcro farmers hate laces, so they can't be lacers. Yeah.

We'll have to find out what. Cable ties, maybe or bailiff. They'll have to be away doing them up. Yeah.

I think that's an important lesson, though, is to just try, if you can bring yourself up the top of that priority list a bit as a farmer, isn't it? Yeah.

But Angela's not alone in saying that. I mean, that's almost. The farm workers, as well as the farmers were also saying that the priority was whatever the task was on the farm.

So whether it's looking after the livestock and their wellbeing goes. Is the President always.

This has been an absolutely fascinating interview and conversation. So thank you both so much for your time. And we've got all the details for that arthritis study in the show notes.

If anybody listening wants to reach out and get in touch and be involved in that. But I think that's probably all we've got time for this week, guys. I don't know about you, but I'm gonna go cool off in that pond.

Take your toe float, which I. I.

Only just found out that a toe float isn't for your attaching to your toe, it's for towing along behind you.

Yeah.

The more you know, every day is a school day.

We'll make sure that a link to toe float is also saved in our show notes, along with all the other acronyms that we featured in our new section today.

But yeah, and we'll have a comprehensive list of all the baked bakeries up and down the UK that Phil's visited. That's the one. The ones in red, Phil. In fact, they'll all be in red, because it will. It'll be the ones Phil's visited. So there you go.

Email address agshowhdp.org UK give us the bakeries where you think Phil should go to first, but also what we should be calling you. Anyway, Hannah, Phil, Charlotte, well done for another show. It's time we say cheerio.

Cheerio.