058: Making your skills transferrable to future career opportunities with Candina "Dina" Janicki

Artwork for podcast Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth

Episode 12 • 13th November 2020 • Holding Down the Fort by US VetWealth • Jen Amos

Jen Amos 0:00

Welcome to holding down the fort, a podcast show dedicated to curating knowledge, resources and relevant stories for today's military spouses so they can continue to make confident and informed decisions for themselves and their families. Because let's face it, we know who's really holding down the fort. I'm Jen a Moe's, a gold star daughter, veteran spouse and your host for holding down the fort by us that wealth. Let's get started.

Right Hey everyone, welcome back to another episode of holding down the fort. I am your co host, Jenn aImost. I'm excited because every time we get to do another episode, it means that I get to introduce another incredible person in our community. So I want to introduce you all to Kadena Jen Nikki, can Dina Nikki also known as Deena for short, is a career services provider and facilitator with a specialty in military community aiding transitioning servicemembers, veterans and military spouses in both her career and volunteer positions. Dina has been a military spouse for 20 years. And as a mother of three, she has also authored the article, opportunity found chaos theory for Military Spouse Employment, which talks about the advantages of chaos theory of careers for aiding military spouses. Dina, welcome to the show.

Unknown Speaker 1:23

Thank you for having me.

Jen Amos 1:25

Yes, I'm happy to have you. Let me start by just asking, how's it going? What are you doing in this pandemic life that we are currently living right now?

Speaker 1 1:34

It is going I think I'm like everybody else. I'm just taking things kind of day by day. We were talking earlier, my kids have gone back to college. And that's a scary proposition right now. So little worried about them. But also, you know, realizing that we've got to take steps. So just day by day. That's where I'm at right now, just day by day.

Jen Amos 1:56

Yeah, definitely. We were talking offline a little bit about the process that it took just for your kids to go back to school. For people who maybe don't have kids, why don't you share a little bit about what it took for them to go to school again?

Speaker 1 2:10

Well, for both of them, so they're both at university, two separate universities, and each one has their own outlines, but they had to be tested. Before they went back to school, mandatory masks, there's some social distancing rules that they're going to have. And the classes are going to be kind of a mixture of hybrid online, in class a little bit, it's kind of you can tell the schools are kind of taking it day by day to see how they're doing. But both schools that they're attending, it's fairly done. Wonderful, and keeping us up to date and aware of what could be happening. So

Jen Amos 2:47

yeah, that's great to hear. And it's so bizarre, and I feel like you know, COVID-19, like the debate on it is so polarizing, some people absolutely believe in it. Some people just don't, they just think is all a hoax. Either way, it is important that when you are in a public setting to take those precautions, because even if you don't believe that you at least create peace of mind, I think for everyone else, in my opinion. And I know my husband and I had fought wearing masks for some time until eventually I remember one day I went to a grocery store. And before I could go in, right at the door, it said, Please wear a mask or like, like you have to wear a mask where you can't come in. And that was like early on in the pandemic, I think it was maybe in April or something when that happens. And it was like the first time I wore a mask in the grocery store. And when I walked in, like everyone was wearing a mask. And I think that's when it hit me that oh, my gosh, this is this is real. And I have to take this seriously.

Speaker 1 3:42

Right? I did rather, to me the risks of not wearing it and being wrong are worse than the risks of wearing it being wrong, if that makes sense.

Jen Amos 3:51

Yeah, I hear you I saw on Facebook, you can change your default picture to you know, it said, I think like earlier on the there was a filter that said like stay home, save lives or whatever. And I had felt the same way. It's like, I would rather be wrong, I would rather you be right. And I'd be wrong. And we make it out of you're alive, like that is totally fine. I will completely just praise you for knowing that this was all fake and whatever. But until then it just seems like this is our new normal. And it's going to be a new normal for quite some time. So it's interesting. And I had spoken to a couple of people in our community who actually kind of feel like this is normal for a military family to adapt in this way. And I'm curious if you had felt that way as well at the start of this pandemic to be like, Well, I've sort of been through a version of this before, and I'm going to be okay.

Speaker 1 4:43

I haven't really thought about it that way. I think for us, you know, we live on a military installation. So we're used to having someone else kind of dictate a little bit into our personal lives where I don't think happens as much outside of this community but I'm used to someone said meaning that you they can come into my house and look at it if need be, or that kind of stuff. So it wasn't difficult just to follow it was actually, in a way, it's kind of nice because you have that comfort of someone else saying, this is the way it's going to be. And this is how we're going to handle it. And it kind of gives you a feeling of safety, or at least it has, for me, I worry a little less on the installation than I would off, if that makes sense.

Jen Amos 5:25

Yeah, I believe you. Because I think out here, it's a free for all. Everyone sort of has different opinions and a different take on this, where I could imagine, you know, being on base, it's like, they just tell you what to do. And you're already so used to it's like, yeah, okay, you know, and knowing that they probably put a lot of thought into that. So that in a way, you sort of have that peace of mind, like, okay, like, they wouldn't just do this just to do this, you know, they're doing this for our safety and, and if anything, I have someone to blame, if like, Thanks, go bed. But you know, as you said, I can imagine just the peace of mind, like knowing that someone else, something bigger than you is looking out for you and telling you exactly what to do. And also knowing that the community is doing the same thing. Well, do you know why don't you share also a little bit about, you know, going through this new normal, what has been keeping you busy or excited nowadays.

Speaker 1 6:18

So I was blessed that I already worked remotely from home. So I've been continuing with work and I have been continuing with just developing ideas, really just in my work life in general, we're working on a little bit of like curriculum. And so getting to play again, in some of the areas that I've studied before, like looking back into chaos theory and happenstance and how we apply these to our military community, which includes, you know, veterans and spouses and children to a certain degree as they're looking for their job search. And right now, with the pandemic, there's the added, how do we do all of these things? And how do we help people find employment, when they're already have some established challenges, and now we've got the challenge of what's happening on a global basis. So for, you know, a military spouse, for instance, that's looking at a permanent change of duty station and PCs. And maybe they've been looking into a job or looking into what they're going to do when they get there, they've probably been unable to leave right away and get there, they've been delayed because of what's happening in COVID. And that's going to cause some issues, and then what's available out there right now to even work. And the exciting part of that is, I think the discussion on remote employment has definitely increased across the board, and our population and specific for my population that I'm a part of as military spouse, this is exciting to see. Because the opportunities for spouses just exponentially gets bigger when we start including remote options and more remote options and different types of remote work where there's the opportunity to possibly build some stability. And, you know, that's was always my biggest challenge is we would get somewhere and I would search and it would take me six months, seven months to find a good position that I could be happy at or that I could grow at. And sometimes it worked. And sometimes it didn't. Sometimes I loved my job. Sometimes I hated it. But I would try to see what I could get out of it, what I could learn. And then it would seem like I would get into a groove, and things would be going good. And I'd be starting to feel like I know what I'm doing. And I'm there and then it would be orders. Here we go again, like great. And now I've got to try this again. So it's going to your employer and saying, Hey, do you have opportunities where I'm going? And most of the time, it was no, yeah, yeah. No. Do you have remote opportunities? No, we don't. Okay, well, I'm willing to give you a recommendation. And then I start the process over again. And that has been my last 20 plus years of my career is just going through that aspect. And it's what led me to what I do now, because I learned the hard way I like to tell people, you know, it's been an adventure and I've stumbled over every tree in every hole, you know, reroute myself to get back on and look at alternatives that you know, maybe take me off the trail for a while, but get me back in because it hasn't been linear. And there's not really been a way for it to be linear just because of what my spouse does for a living. Yeah, and we could have we could have made the option that I stayed somewhere and continued and then that was an option. And at times with certain positions that I've had, it was an option we actually really fully discussed. But for our family, it just didn't work that way. So this has been a little bit of a challenge. But it's what led me here. And it's where I found, what I was good at and what my passion was. And if I can help another spouse, avoid some of those little holes, then it's worth it to me. And that's what led to the article. That's what led me to do my certifications and try to grow in this field is to say, hey, what do you do, when you can't just transfer your job, you just can't transfer what you're doing. And this is what you went to school for. This is what you love this is you know, maybe even what you grew up saying you were going to do, and then you fall in love, and you marry this person. And they their position doesn't allow you to do that. Where does that leave you? So that's kind of just how I ended up here. And that's what's nice about like chaos theory. And what attracted me to that was that it focuses on that upheaval, that chaos, that chance, the unpredictability, and how do I set myself up in the best possible way? To use that almost to my advantage? And to navigate it? If nothing else? How do I navigate this chaotic life of a career military spouse?

Jen Amos: 11:39

Yeah, and before we jump into the article, I really feel like this time is a military spouses time to shine, honestly, you know, like, just like what you mentioned with your story, it was just always hard to find a job and when you have one to sustain it, because you have to move. And now remote work has become a staple for so many companies. And you know, I have a friend who her primary mission with her business is to help spouses get employment remotely. And I asked her I was like, so how's it been like, since you know the pandemic, just like I am so busy. She was like, I need to turn off my computer on the weekends and like not look at my phone on the weekends. That's how busy I am. Because I just can't I'm just like nonstop now. And it's just really cool to see. I mean, despite all the tragedy, and all the inconvenience of this all it seems like military families and spouses are actually thriving in this. And I think that they should be the leaders and say like, Hey, change is normal. Just normal. Let me show you how to navigate this. You know, in a very cool, suave. No, not really, I know, it's not like always that way. But it's more so just that familiarity and having that resiliency and, you know, having normalized chaos already, you know, in your life, and I think now's the time really to highlight military spouses and what they've gone through and, and how they continue to navigate these unpredictable waters, I think.

: 13:04

Yeah, in the spouse, community, just the remote work. The entrepreneurs, I'm always impressed by how many entrepreneurs I know, that are military spouses that have looked at this career field, in this career world in the realistic expectations of what their life is and what their constraints are, and have said, I'm gonna make this work. And I'm gonna find a way to make this work. And that's, that's your friends starting the business to help other people find remote work. It's the home based businesses, it's the Etsy businesses, it's the you know, giving each other a handout. I mean, in no response community as a whole. I'm always impressed with the, I guess, just creativity. You'll come out of it. And spouses are resilient, and they are natural. I won't say natural, but they're networkers you have to be because it's not just about your career, I get to new location. And I've got to figure out the best schools and I've got to figure out where to get a dentist and where to get a doctor and who I'm going to use for my car and little things that you don't really think about all the time. But when you have to about every two to three years, get a whole new set of all of these things, you get really good at finding information. You get really good at figuring out reviews and how to figure out what's because you don't have time to play around. And I don't have years to figure out who the best dentist is going to be for my kids. I need to know now. So I'm going to reach out talk. I'm going to network. I'm going to ask questions. I'm going to join organizations that maybe I wouldn't have done before because that's where I might make my next friend and we You know, we have to remember that aspect of it to the social aspect, you know, you get, you get your family, you get your tribe. And then you know, you got that tribe that, I don't know, Fort Hood. And then it's time to leave. And thank you social media, which has totally changed our lives, I use a lot less steps than I used to. You know, you get over here in Fort Benning. And it's like, Okay, I've got, how do I get my new tribe? And how do I establish that new connections, and we're doing all that stuff on our personal side. But all of that every last bit of that translates into the career side, whether it's in job search mode, or if it's in career development mode. It's all about networking and talking to people and being open to opportunities and being open to chance. And there's the the same thing. It's like a Roman philosopher that says, you know, luck is just opportunity plus preparation. That's how you get luck. And when we're talking about chaos theory, or we're talking about happenstance theory, which is another theory of career development, what they're playing on is, how do I set myself up to take advantage of those opportunities that are come here and to be prepared for them, so that I can be the one that locked out into that job? You know, she or he was so lucky that they found that position? And it was like, Well, no, there's a certain amount of luck. But there's also a lot of prep that goes into either, because you have to be prepared to take on the opportunity, you've got to be willing to take the risk, you have to talk to people, like everybody, everybody needs to know that you're job searching, or that you're looking for a dentist or what you're doing so that you can get those recommendations and you can get that person that goes, Oh, you were in education, right? Well, I'm pretty sure I heard at this meeting the ad centers hiring a new counselor, dude, you know that? Did you look, I can reach out that kind of stuff happens all the time. And you know, I'm talking about it specifically in career just because of what I do. But anybody I think that's been around our community knows this happens all the time in everything. You know, I have a child that hates the dentist's and is scared to death. Oh, yeah. Well, you know, my neighbor's kid is the same way. And they see, you know, Dr. Houston, you should go check out Dr. Houston, because you know, he's really good with kids. So that kind of stuff. So all of those things that we've put into place to be resilient through this life, just in life, in general, those same qualities and techniques can be applied to the job. And that's where the key comes in. And that's what chaos theory is about. And happenstance is about, it's about lining yourself up to be able to take advantage of those opportunities. So constantly exploring your environment. So even if you're happy and you're in a position, and you found that position, and things are going great, you'd have to still be open to what's out there, you kind of got to be scanning the environment, you have to make sure your friends and your family and your connections know, once you brand, who are you? What do you bring to the table? What do you like doing you and you have to be kind of creative. So you have to know your skills, and you have to know your competencies. And that goes back to knowing your brand. What is it that I like to do so for spouses, I think, especially when we're talking about switching careers, or let's just be honest, not every military location is located next to a big huge city with a lot of opportunities, or some have very minimal opportunities, and they're not great locations, or you may even be overseas where you legally are very limited on Russian work. So we have to be creative. And we have to be able to find opportunities that don't necessarily match up with the job title that we gave, or the exact major we went to school for. So if you're a human resource major and you've you've worked in HR and then you get stationed No, no in Italy, and there's no HR jobs and there's no this what are you going to do? You're going to not work? Are you going to try to find something else? If you have an understanding of what about HR Did I enjoy what was the things about it that I was actually good at not the job title itself, not the industry itself? What was it that I really liked about it? Well, you know, I liked doing orientations. I liked instructing people I liked helping them learn their job. I enjoy that communication. Okay, well, that's training. What else can I do? What else can I train? What else look at so now I've just opened up my opportunities. I'm not limited to just an HR job now. I'm like, Okay, well, maybe I could be a trainer and Watson involved in that, and what do I need to look at? Or maybe it's not, you know, I'm looking around and it's not open. There's no training opportunities open. But there's an administrative professional in that area. And maybe that's a little bit of a step back. But you know, our family can make it work. I know that's a step in the door. Right, right. Do I take that step? For me, I think back to when I was a kid, and I thought, Oh, I'm gonna get this career. And I'm just going to get promotion, and it's going to happen. And that's the way it works. And I'm just going to move up. And at a certain point in my life, I got really kind of down and really kind of depressed, because I thought, Here I am at a certain age, and I won't say what age. I'm about to go off into their careers, and I don't have a career. And that's how I thought I sat back and I thought, I don't really have a career. Where am I going? What am I doing? And that was kind of that was just depressing. It was it just kind of got you down. And I was talking to my tribe, and I was talking to friends. It's like, No, you have had a career. It's not straight. It doesn't just climb a mountain. I've had some steps back and some steps forward. But what I do know about myself is that everything I've done, has strengthened my skills, and it strengthened my competencies, and it's led me to where I want to go. So that is career development. That is a career path. It's just outlined by job titles, and it's not outlined by a company.

Jen Amos: 21:30

Yeah, I really like how I mean, just from listening to you, it really sounds like what you're talking about is encouraging military spouses to redefine what career looks like for them. Just like what you said, it may not, if ever be a linear path. It could be, you know, what did I enjoy the most about this job? And what's a similar type of job that can provide or that offers that same thing that I enjoyed doing? And so yeah, I think it's a very unique way to look at it. And it's very validating, and encouraging, because, you know, you have the spouse who is constantly having to reinvent themselves, while the service member is up and up, you know, is like they are the ones with the linear career. And it's almost, I can almost see maybe the resentment between two, it's like, oh, you're the one building your career. And here I am constantly having to start over. I mean, obviously, there's more to that conversation. But I like how the way that you reframe it and say, like, you know, don't see this as a loss, see this as more skill sets, you know, to add to your resume,

: 22:40

and to further define what that careers eventually going to be, because sooner or later they're going to retire or get out, depending on what the pathway is for your family. For ours, you know, my husband is going to be retiring. And the joke in the household was always when he retires, it's his turn to follow me. And then I ended up with a remote job that I absolutely love. And now it's well, what do you want to do? Yeah, figure out where to go. But each position that I've had, I learned something from either learn something I really loved, or I learned something I really don't love, you know, that I'm like, No, that's not something I really want to do. And I have strengthened certain skills, and I have been consistently developing. So I can't tell you what my job's going to be 10 years from now or five years from now. But I can tell you that I will be doing the things that I love to do. And I'm just looking at this as a journey of I'm getting there. It's just taking little time. And it's a little bit of struggle. And it's a lot of risk. Yeah, the other side of it is just, and this is probably the biggest struggle that I have, and I still have to this day, is taking the risk, putting myself out there taking the action. And that could be you know, I was teaching and I'm really enjoying this, and I love this. So now I'm going to look into furthering my education in that area, or I'm going to volunteer to go do things or I'm gonna go join, you know, I can't remember the name of them. But the My dad used to call them supper clubs where they teach you to speak publicly. There's an actual name for him and my memory is horrible sometimes. But taking advantages of those opportunities and always learning never stop learning never stop growing. And if I can frame it in that way, then every step that we've taken has been a step in my career development. I am advancing in my career, I'm just advancing it in in a different way than maybe society has framed it all this time. If nothing else, at the end of the day, I can sit down and I can make myself a list and say this This is what I'm good at. This is what I'm not good at. This is where I can help. And this is where my personal mission lies. For me all these years, one thing I have definitely learned is no matter what I'm doing, I need to be in a position where I'm working with people and helping people, I have to make those connections, because that's the value that work brings to me, someone else may find that I don't want to work on people that I am better doing it myself. So maybe I want to work, you know, in a data center or something like that, where I don't have to interact with anybody but the data generalization, there's far more to data centers, but you just get to know yourself in a way that I think not everybody gets. I've learned more from those step backs. And I've learned more from those steps into different areas than I have the ones that I intentionally took, because I thought it was leading me that way.

Jen Amos: 25:56

Yeah, absolutely. It sounds more about following the breadcrumbs than, you know, maybe that milestone and maybe that destination. Because I mean, although we could wish we can get to that clear destination that we've put on our vision board, and everything. And I think this is a good lesson for life too. Because, you know, it's very commonly known, at least amongst my peers that when, you know, a lot of my friends ended up not even using the degree that they graduated with. And I remember for me, in college, I had changed my major three times. And by the time I chose my third major, I wasn't really interested in the profession that it would have led me to, I was more interested in the skill sets, I was more interested in, you know, becoming a better communicator, becoming a better people person, you know, and that's what I felt like that my degree had given me. And I'm so glad that I saw it in that way. Because if I look at my life, I didn't take the traditional route, I should have, you know, with my bachelor's, and for a long time, I kind of thought like, oh, in a way, I'm a failure, because I didn't do that linear path. But eventually, like, I was, like, you know, college is college, like, no one has it figured out like anyone anyway. And I just think I just, I don't know what it is about the school system. And maybe this is good for your kids to know. But I mean, I'm sure you've talked to your kids about this already. But it's like, I think the time in school is just like a time you would have at a job, it was just a certain time in your life where you're, you know, really into a certain topic or study. And that was sort of your job, that was your focus. And after that, it's okay to transition into something new. And I just love your talk and your language around shifting, because I think even for myself, I still battle in my head like, well, you know, I wasn't able to stack up all the blocks, I had to stack up different piles of blocks and justify, you know why I'm qualified to do anything. So I just love that it's the way that you're talking, there's a different way to look at your career than to look at it in the traditional way that, you know, our school system has taught us and society has taught us there is a different way. And I think that more people need to hear this and understand like, you're okay, you're doing just fine. You just have to kind of reframe, or look at your skill set a little differently and realize what you're doing in your personal life does translate to your professional life. And it's just having the right people to work with, you know, such as yourself, Dina to really bring out or to make that translation, you know, from your personal life of resiliency and adaptability to your professional life.

: 28:37

I could say, also talk to each other. That's something I don't think I did enough, especially when I was younger. I didn't talk to anybody. I like other military spouses. I didn't talk to other people outside of maybe like my family about what my journey was and what I was looking to do and what I had done. And one thing I have found is I've been a little more open and mixer talking to more people, I mean, little things like for years and years and years, my social media, LinkedIn anything to do with the potential of finding a job, had nothing on it that ever identified me in any way as a military spouse. That was like, no, no, no, because I was scared. Right? Right, that it would be used against me that would hold me back from jobs. It did hold me back from jobs I have and I've heard of it. Other spouses have had this instances where there's someone has said, I like you, and I think you're a good fit. But I need someone who's going to stay. And I couldn't promise that I would be there five years from now. And it wasn't until years later, I realized that nobody can promise they're going to be five years from now. Nobody can promise they're going to be there a year from now because life happens. chaos happens. pandemics happen. We have no guarantees. All we can do is bring the best of what we bring forward. One challenge to that and that's that's where I'm going back to Talking to people beyond just them becoming advocates for you, and knowing what you're looking for, is getting an understanding of what you truly do bring to the table. So through talking to others, through talking about the jobs that I've had, and the things that I've done and sharing those stories, we're able to help each other identify those transferable skills, those competencies, what you're known for, send out a little survey to friends, family, coworkers, old supervisors, people that work for you, that you know, would be willing to and ask them, hey, what about me? It's like a rock star, like, what did I do really good? What could I work on a little bit more? If you have to summarize my professional brand? In words, what would you say? I did this, I did this as part of a program that I was doing. And I sent it out to like my dad, who, by the way, was brutally honest.

Jen Amos: 31:01

Thanks, dad.

: 31:04

Workers, I send it out to previous supervisors. And I got a really good group back. And when I was done, I was reading through these emails. And I can't remember exactly offhand what questions I asked, but they were similar to what I was just using as a scrambles, I think I asked what do you want to say? What's my biggest strength? What was my biggest weakness? Brand, that kind of stuff? And what do you think my motivation was, would be another good one to ask? And I was shocked by how similar all the answers were. And then I looked at it and I thought, is this what I want everybody to think? Is this what I want for my brand? So there's that aspect of it as well, yeah. But it really helped solidify for me what I do bring to the table. So now I'm talking to someone or we're having these conversations, and I can speak to that. And I can say, maybe I'm not that perfect round ball for that round area that you have. But I'm malleable enough that I fit there. And I found it and I can grow in this area. And I might not know how to do that specific thing right now. But let me tell you what I can learn. And I can learn on the fly, and I can be resilient, and I can fail forward and I can grow. Give me that opportunity. And we talked about the in career services, the hidden market, most jobs are not readily available there. And that's how you access that hidden market is through conversations. But you have to be able to converse about what you are and who you are and what you bring to the table, and how you can make those translations for that recruiter for that interviewer. So they're not trying to figure out how does your not so perfect background with a few little gaps here and there and weird job titles fit into this position. Instead, you know yourself well enough, you know, your background well enough, you've talked to people and have them help pick out things for you. So I think overall most military in general, and I think that extends to a lot of their families are kind of humble. You don't see a lot of braggarts or anything, or at least I haven't in my experience. So they're not always great about talking about themselves. It's everything's the team. Everything's the man. Right?

Jen Amos: 33:24

Right. very collectivist. Yeah. My

: 33:27

conversations with other people, other people will point out, wow, that's super cool. You did that? Did you think about this. And there's even an exercise that I'll do with clients sometimes where you put like three of them in a group and you tell them just talk about what you did in your jobs, and then like tumor, and we'll take notes, and we'll pick out skills and cool things. And then when they read it back, the other person's like, oh, never even thought about that. Yeah, recall. So if you take that aspect, and you have those conversations, you take that research, and then you really research what that company is looking for. And what that job is, you can make those connections for the interviewer for the recruiter for the person that you're talking to. So they don't have to do any extra work. You're already doing it for him. Yeah, that's powerful. That's gonna help you advance your career. That's how you're gonna find, okay, I was training in education. And now I got here and there's no higher education around here. There's no schools, but Oh, lo and behold, they have an insurance company and there's a position as a corporate trainer, well, how can I translate the training that I did? What made that up? That translates into this position, and you'll be amazed at what really does translate, but if you make it for them, yeah, easy for them. You're more likely to get a response.

Jen Amos: 34:47

Yeah, to me, it sounds the two key things that you said that stood out to me is, being in community with people in the same situation as you and from that learning how to be a really good communicator. Communicating, you know, letting people know, putting it out there, what you're looking for, and then being able to communicate that to recruiters. So those are the two key things that really stood out. And, you know, even for myself, you know, we're a veteran family, it's like you and I think to myself, like, how do I apply that? You know, in my life? How do I, you know, what do I do? And, and I think that's what I love about why I love podcasting, because I feel like I get that immediate feedback from people like, oh, that's what they liked about me. Oh, that's what I tend to enjoy doing. So I could talk about that. Because even for myself, I was thinking about, like, how I had to update my bio recently. And I was like, I was like, what? Like, how do I summarize all these things that I've done so far. So I just, I really feel very reassured and encouraged through the things that you're saying. And I hope that for our listeners, they feel the same way as well. Obviously, I love how this and I just said this, you know, before we started, we didn't really like dive into the article, which is completely okay with me. Because as I said, I wanted the heart of this conversation, to really humanize the military community and what they're going through and really just believing in yourself and knowing that you just need the right tools to fill out your resume correctly, and know what you know, what your skill sets are, and everything. And so I just appreciate you sharing all of that. I do have one more question for you. And I heard this, I think in a previous interview you had done. And let me know if you remember this or not, but you said in this interview that when your personal life aligns with your professional life, you have found your calling. And I thought that really stood out to me, I actually sat with that for a while. And I just wanted to ask you like, do you feel like you found your calling in what you're doing today?

: 36:40

Yes, yes, it is not an exact match. And that's part of what I've learned after all these years is there's no exact matches, and it's not what I thought it was going to be when I was younger. But what I do professionally, and where I'm at, personally, they are in a match. And I feel good, good. With what I do. I don't think anybody always likes their job or likes, this likes every aspect. But at the end of the day, I'm doing what I think I was called to do. And if the world changed tomorrow, and this exact career specialists position type thing didn't do I think I would still be able to do my calling, because when it gets down to it, it's just going to be helping people in a different way than just exact now, I know the direction I want had. And then the big thing for me is, I know what's not good for me and what is good for me. And that has been 20 plus years of lessons that's from, you know, starting out. I think my first job, my first official paid job was McDonald's, and my aunt got me that job I worked for a bail bonds company for when I was 18, making phone calls to try to help find bail jumpers, and having an interesting world there. And, you know, higher ed to where I am at now. I know what the common themes are. And for me, it's, I need to be useful. Like I'm making a difference. I need to feel like I'm giving back to a community. And for me, that's why I say right now, personally, professionally and all lines up. What I'm doing on my personal side, when I'm doing on my professional side is giving back to a community that has been challenging for our family, but has given our family so much. And I would not be the person that I am today, if I had not married a gentleman who was willing to give back to his country and give back to what he's doing. You know, and it's weird when I think about it that way. But it truly, it comes down to that. I mean, that one decision affected my life, my children's lives everybody's life. And I just you know, I'm thankful for what he does. And I support him in what he does. But it is definitely affected who I became. Yeah, absolutely. How much it would when we got married, that I do.

Jen Amos: 39:15

It's like you didn't know what you were saying I do to entirely like the whole picture of what you said. Yeah. Or what you agree to when you said I do. Yeah, I was

: 39:23

a you know, as a military brat. So it's not like I wasn't around the king, right? As my mother and I talked one time, there's definitely a difference between being the child be the spouse so

Jen Amos: 39:35

I actually let I want to go ahead and really wrap up on that. No, actually because I know that right now you have two kids that are in college, what have you taught them or maybe modeled to them, you know that in terms of, you know, career have they picked up the same lessons from you that like, oh, I should focus on you know, what feels like my calling, what you do in your career. Do you teach ought to your kids as well?

: 40:02

I do. I don't know how much they listen, because just like when it's coming from mom doesn't, it doesn't use much. But I've tried to show through action. I've had discussions with them. But like my oldest, I have three, my oldest graduated from University of Mississippi. Two years ago.

Jen Amos: 40:21

No, wow. Congratulations.

: 40:24

Sure. But I remember when she was starting to go to school, and there was the discussion about what she wanted to do. And she's a performer and she's an amazing performer. That's not just mom bragging, she really,

Jen Amos: 40:35

I believe you.

: 40:37

But there was a part of me, even after all of this that was like, Oh, who I don't know about this. Yeah, we, you know, you have to follow your passion. You have to follow your route. And I remember she called me not too long after she had started school. And she was in her second year. And she's like, you know, I think I want to add education on she was a musical theater. Major thing I want to add education on just so that I have a few more experiences. Yeah. I was like, okay, and she kind of went for that way. And then, you know, fast forward, she graduated, she she does student teaching. She hates it. Like, no, no, I want to perform I want to do this and the chance of working at Disney and costuming and doing that kind of stuff and definitely affected her. Yeah. But I have seen and that's where I'm going with this is she did pick up the lessons at some point because she's now in a position that a lot of people are where her normal role her normal career, what she was doing, it's not available to her replays aren't happening right now, Conrad's talking right now. She had actually got her very first paid gig. She was going to be little Sally and a play and tickets to go out there everything and Pandemic hits. Yeah, forgot to perform her very first paid gig. And I know that for her, but she's doing exactly what she has watched me do for years and learn to picked up on is what do I do? And what did I learn in school? And what do I have in my toolbox right now that I can do something while this is on hold while I'm starting to work? And how can I do something that will maybe still help me advance? area? And those are the key things of you know, just thinking outside of the box?

Jen Amos: 42:32

Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Well, Dina, thank you so much for our conversation today. I feel like you're so encouraging. I can feel your motherly vibes in our conversation. And I can only imagine that the spouses that are listening to this episode will really appreciate your kind words of wisdom and encouragement and everything. So I know we hinted a little bit at the chaos theory of careers, for people that are interested in possibly, maybe reading more into that or getting a hold of you, how can they find you?

: 43:05

Best way to find me is reach out to me on LinkedIn. That's just my full name@linkedin.com. So it's convenient to indicate LinkedIn, I am always willing to have a conversation. Just reach out again, I'm still in the learning process. I'm like everybody else I'm growing and you know, taking each day at a time and I'm sure even today, I'll get done with this conga, oh, I shouldn't have said that. Or maybe that said this. But it's just taking taking those little actions. So I appreciate that you reached out and wanted me to do this. And if people get one thing from it, and I feel that it's good, and it's been worthwhile. So yeah, definitely reach out. And if I can help in some way, or if I can't, if I can point someone in the right direction, I'm more than willing to be a helping hand. I've had a lot of them through this last 20 years, and I wouldn't be where I am without other spouses and stuff that were willing to step in and help me.

Jen Amos: 44:00

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Dina. And to our listeners. We hope that today's episode gave you one more piece of knowledge, resource or relevant story, so you can continue to make confident and informed decisions for you and your family. We look forward to speaking with you in the next episode. Tune in next time.

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