Diane Zelinsky’s one-woman Fringe show, Clutter Is My Life Partner, is all about helping people actually get rid of their clutter — with humor, heart, and a little bit of gentle tough love. I’m Chris Lindstrom and Diane and I dig into why clutter isn’t just junk: it’s memory, habit, and sometimes trauma wrapped up in boxes that give you a headache and hide the good stuff you actually want to enjoy.

Check out the episode on Just Can't Not wherever you get your podcasts or on Lunchador.org!

https://player.captivate.fm/episode/c3fe126d-2120-4a6a-8e27-fbd8741ae89c/

We explain the basics — why paper is the sticky, villainous starting point, how collections become hoards when there’s no intention or display, and why decluttering is more about storytelling and joy than shame. Diane walks audiences through real-life examples from her talks, her journalism background, and even dog-sitting gigs, and she promises the show is a laugh-out-loud, relatable one-woman comedy where you might actually walk away with free stuff she’s giving away. If you want practical, compassionate tips plus some good old-fashioned storytelling, come see her at the JCC’s Center Stage Theater on Sept 15 (6:30 pm) or Sept 19 (12:15 pm); tickets are $10 at rochesterfringe.com, and you can follow her on the “Clutter Is My Life Partner” and “Gentle Decluttering” pages.

Mentioned in this episode:

Joe Bean Roasters

Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!

Well, that music means it's time for another episode of Just Can't Not.

I'm your host, Chris Lindstrom, and this is part of our previews for the Rochester Fringe Festival, the ESL Rochester Fringe Festival, happening from September 15th to the 26th in scenic downtown Rochester, New York.

Go to rochesterfringe.com to get your tickets for as many events as you can possibly go to.

And you do want to go to as many as you can go to.

And I'm here with a guest.

Guest, why don't you introduce yourself?

I'm Diane Zelinsky, and my show is called Clutter is My life Partner, and it's based on my entire life of dealing with my stuff.

So this is.

This is a cool show.

The tickets are $10 and.

And the shows are on September 15th at 6:00, clock, 6:30, 6:30.

I apologize.

And all the shows are at the Center Stage Theater at the jcc, which is a tremendous, tremendous venue.

So let's just dive into what is the show.

So this, you know, Fringe offers so.

Many different ways to express yourself.

So many different formats, so many different options.

When you were deciding, hey, I want to do a show, how did you decide on the format of the show?

Well, I have been doing decluttering talks at local libraries and churches and retired teachers groups for several years.

And I found that there were people that were showing up at more than one.

And I said, oh, my gosh, I have groupies.

And they said, well, your show is just so much fun to come to.

And I leave inspired.

So I just keep coming.

So I thought, well, gee, that might be a kind of a fun fringe show.

And it's giving me the opportunity to get rid of my own clutter.

Ooh, see, you know, I love that too, because, like, it's like you're doing the thing that you like to do.

That you feel like you're.

You can help others with, and that.

People gravitate to somebody that cares really hard about what they do.

I think that's one of those things that is.

It's hard to define.

And that's authenticity, right?

It's honesty and how you're conveying these.

Thoughts to different people during these talks.

And so many people are so terrified.

Of doing the talking part of being up in front of others.

And it's no surprise to me that people gravitate to that because you seem like a genuine person.

Thank you.

So what I'm kind of intrigued about.

Is what is your relationship?

What's your relationship personally to clutter?

Well, I claim that I'm a creative person so I can find a use for just about everything, which means it's hard to get rid of it because I'm going to need it next week.

And I think I got that from my parents.

And my father grew up on a farm and he could fix anything using other things.

Like he fixed the starter in my car with a copper plate from an old clock and superglue of course, I.

Mean that's the obvious path there.

Right.

Well, and I find it very interesting.

Because that's like, that is very reminiscent of my experience as, as a kid through my, through my years.

My dad, you know, grew up, my dad grew up very poor, you know,.

Real, you know, old school poverty.

I didn't have enough food, you know, lived through a lot of damaging times and traumatic experiences and kept a lot.

Of things from that.

We ran our own small family business.

So it was greenhouse Christmas trees.

So there's no end to what is theoretically useful.

Right.

It's this, this implement is super useful.

Collecting vintage tools, well, we might need those.

And we also ran a sports card.

Shop and gaming card shop.

So all of that stuff.

And now we're actually, we're towards, you.

Know, now we're actually having to divest a lot of those things because he's in his, probably his last year or.

So and now we're, we're gonna have to go through all of that old stuff and there's just like an acre of.

Not an acre.

It's an exaggeration but there's so much stuff.

And I imagine it's pretty common to.

Hear those kind of stories about, you.

Know, family things that cause, you know,.

You know, more extensive clutter situations.

I've been through that with my parents home too.

And everything was neat and clean.

There was no papers lying around or anything.

But it was an 11 room house with an attic and they lived in it for 70 years.

So I could go up in the attic even until last year and find a doll I had when I was five years old.

Oh wow.

Because it was in an old trunk and as long as the old trunk was just sitting there, it wasn't doing anything wrong.

Why bother with it?

Just leave it.

I just found in one of my last trips where I was starting to go through some of the card stuff, actually found my childhood stuffed animal that was made for me by my mom.

And like what, what did.

There are moments, you know, with never.

Throwing something away that feel, that can feel very special.

But there's also a lot of mental.

Weight that comes with that constant clutter.

Right.

Not just.

Not just having things, but not having.

Them as tidy or having them organized in a very specific way, it's a.

Problem because many times you can't find what you're looking for.

And what happens is you end up rushing out at the last moment and buying something because you can't find that special pair of scissors or whatever, so it can overtake you.

And also, you can't find things that you want to enjoy in your life because the clutter is keeping you from actually enjoying what you bought the clutter to prevent.

Yeah.

And I think that's also kind of the core message, right.

Is how do you have the most enjoyment in life?

And there's, you know, there is great enjoyment in reminiscing.

There's great, you know, great enjoyment in these things.

But if you can't find them or.

If they get damaged because you're not.

Storing them properly or all those things, like, it's.

It's not adding joy to your life.

It's making your life, you know, a little bit harder than it needs to be.

I. I tell people, especially with photos, and I said, if you can find a shoebox with good photos that tell stories, and that's the description of a good family photo, is can you tell the story behind it?

If you have that, you don't need 25 photo albums that have no labels on the back.

Well, yeah, and I think that's the other thing, too, is you're able to.

It should bring these, you know, telling.

Maybe a grandkid telling, you know, telling somebody that doesn't know these family stories yet.

That's the joy.

It's not the holding.

It's the telling.

It's the.

You're reinvigorating these stories that life has brought you.

Exactly.

Like even.

There's a story of my brothers and sister growing up where we all had plaid shirts in front of a big pair of green legs at an amusement park.

Now, does anybody know where that is?

Oh, geez.

No, I was thinking maybe.

Maybe Minnesota or North Dakota.

No, it was in the Adirondacks.

Oh, you know what?

I Now, so remind me.

I think I've seen that.

Yes.

Because I've been many times old for it.

Okay.

Old Forge.

Yeah.

And it was Enchanted Forest.

Yes.

And the reason why that photo is important is because my mother made these plaid shirts so that when we got to the park, we could.

All the kids could go off on their own.

These.

The oldest I Was the oldest was nine, and we went down to, like, four.

And she just said, you kids go off in the park.

And all the parents were sitting by the entrance.

The kids were running off on their own.

But she could tell who we were because we had the matching shirts.

And I'm sure, you know, those.

Those might have been stored forever.

And it's a little harder to wear when you're not nine anymore.

Yes.

But we have the photo to tell the kids today, like my nieces and nephews and their kids.

Yeah.

Those kids are never more than four feet from their parents in public.

Right.

You know, and.

And our parents, we could be half a mile away, and they would, you know, oh, they'll be home soon for dinner.

Yeah.

Oh, I definitely had that experience as a kid.

I think, you know, realistically, I'm pretty close to the last generation that had that.

Right.

Was like, I remember as early as first grade or kindergarten, I would be,.

Like, in the middle of the winter, a half mile away in somebody else's.

Land with this dirt mound that we.

Call the haystack that we sledded on no more than 100 yards from a creek that if we went down to in the middle of winter and you fell into, which you definitely could have.

You're never getting out of.

Right.

But that's.

That was.

It was the thing.

Right.

You had that different kind of freedom, but at the same time, you know, it was a lack of control, which now is more the style.

But I think that also comes with the stuff.

Right.

You feel.

You want to feel like you're in control of your environment, and sometimes these kind of things make you feel out of control.

So when you're.

When you're doing your talks and you're discussing with people, I imagine it's a little interactive as well.

I'm.

I imagine you will have worked with people that have.

Clutter is like, the very nicest way.

To talk about it.

Right.

You people that, you know, experience, you know, going through major, you know, major.

Amount of stuff or hoarding or those kind of things.

I imagine that has to be very.

A very challenging thing to do because it's so.

There's so much shame involved in a lot of these things.

I once had a client that would not let me in her house, but we sat on the front porch for four hours, and she cried about her clutter.

Yeah.

And she said, thank you, Diane.

And at the end, she let me in her house.

And it was.

Trust me, it was not as bad as others I have seen.

And after that she said, you just helped me so much.

I'm gonna call you.

Never heard from her again.

But I think it was the trauma of even telling me this.

But I also don't work with people at that level because I think they need mental health support, and I'm not qualified.

I don't have any background in mental health.

I can just say, listen, I went through this myself.

Yeah.

I am one of you.

Yeah.

Well, that's.

I think it's the difference between, like, you know, being a professional organizer, you know, working with somebody and helping them.

Is a very different thing than.

Yeah.

Because it's.

It's rare that, you know, those situations that are so extreme are not tied to trauma and all these other things, you know, And I can say as many negatives as I can about, you know, the.

The publicity and the extreme versions that.

Are shown on TV shows and sometimes.

Handled with a lack of delicacy.

And, you know, admittedly, if you're watching.

Those, sometimes you feel that lack of delicacy about, you know, just clean it.

Just clean it up.

Just.

Just clean it up.

There's so many layers to all these things.

When you're talking about that shame, that moment of working with somebody and having that release of being able to talk to somebody that understands you.

I think it's what so many people need to in these situations.

They just want to be seen as a whole person and not somebody who is dealing with this specific situation.

In fact, I am not an organizer, and I tell people I'm a terrible organizer, but I can help you get rid of your stuff.

And once you get rid of your stuff, your own natural organizing gifts come out.

Because if you have too much stuff, it's like playing a Rubik's Cube or something.

You're just trying to get things in the right spot, shoehorn them in.

Clutterbugs are fabulous at being able to shoehorn stuff in places you can.

Cannot believe.

Oh, absolutely.

So how would you describe.

So was this more of a passion project?

Was this your career?

How did this fall into your life?

Well, I. I just thought it would be fun to take it to another level.

Yeah.

And see what I could do with it.

Because, I mean, I had a varied career in journalism and.

And I was a journalist, and then I worked in public relations.

I worked for local school district here in Rochester and a university.

And then I went on my own as a freelance writer, and then I did decluttering.

And then I'm also a dog sitter and have, you know, so it's Like I'm a jack of all trades, but clutter has always been with me.

And it's interesting cause now that I'm living in other people's homes as a dog sitter, I see how other people live and for most of them, I'd say 99% they want to have their house spotless.

If someone's moving in, they don't know.

So you know, you can really jump back and forth between one day I'll be with a clutterbug and the next day be in this spotless dog sitting house.

And back and forth it's.

And then my own stuff and now my parents stuff.

Yeah.

Do you find.

I mean, I have to imagine like the.

I'm gonna use the wrong term, like the sociology part.

Just like you're getting to see so.

Many different ways of life through all of your varied experiences.

Is that something you found?

Like you're not judging but it's like,.

It's interesting to know how everybody does everything they do.

It is actually quite fascinating.

I mean, I was in an old Victorian house in Lyons and they had a.

What is it?

Not the smoke detector?

The other one.

The other gas.

Oh yeah, Carbon monoxide.

Well, they had it in a high place and the walls were so high in the house I couldn't reach it.

And it was start to beep and I couldn't.

And it was so high up that I didn't have a ladder in this old house.

And I'm like, I'm ready to hit it, you know.

It was very stressful.

Take a broomstick and start whacking at it.

I know, I think I might have done that just to get the COVID off.

Because you know those little things people don't think about.

Oh yeah.

And they go too.

I know.

As soon as they go, they go.

And then when you have these mystery beeps in houses, you know.

But it has been interesting.

But all my.

When I had clients with clutter, I only felt compassion and because but for the grace of God I could go there.

Absolutely.

And the way I've gotten out of it in the past was I would invite my mother over because that will clean my house in a minute, you know.

So what's for you?

What's your stickiest typical thing that starts like, you know, there's always a process, right.

You might have everything exactly the way you want it.

And there's always this place that starts the.

Oh, maybe it's the slippery slope of.

Clutter is starting for you.

Where's the stickiest place where clutter starts to build paper.

Paper.

Like, I decided I wanted to go on a lot of hikes, and I said, you know, I don't know, Western New York.

So I went ahead and I'd see an article in the DNC about the five best hiking spots.

So I said I just rip it out of the paper, and then I have, you know, something on Facebook and I print it out.

So then I have that paper, and then pretty soon I've got places to hike.

In the living room, in the dining room, on the table.

They're all over the place.

And then I say I should go on a hike.

I can't find the paper that I'm looking for.

So is paper first?

Paper is terrible.

See, and that makes so much sense.

To me because as.

I don't know, I'm going to say a fellow nerd, you know, somebody that.

Loves learning about as much as I can learn, you know, that's where my life becomes.

You know, the.

That intensity of wanting to dive into something, wanting to know about things as much as possible.

Doing the research will drive me into.

Many different directions and sometimes intense hobbies.

That burn fast and those kind of things.

I imagine that's something you see often as well.

Well, yes.

I mean, for part of my clutter, I tried to find solutions, and then I thought, ebay.

Well, that is.

Talk about a slippery slope.

Because then I started to go to sales to buy stuff that I knew I could sell.

And then pretty soon my house is filled with stuff.

And then all of a sudden, the market collapsed.

Yep.

And I have all this stuff and.

But I think, well, the market will come back, you know, and, you know, that.

That's.

That's a problem.

And, you know, and buying all the books and stuff for decluttering, and then you have, you know, I think, well, I'd rather read the book than actually do the decluttering.

So, yeah, and that's.

That's the old sunk cost fallacy.

When it comes down to all that.

Right.

It's like, oh, I have a ticket to the Bills game.

I'm using an example from when they were bad, because that's when I watched the Bills is when they were not very good.

It's like, oh, the bills are 4 and 11.

It's December, it's 10 degrees outside, it's going to be snowing.

Is it really a better value for me to go to the game or.

To be comfortable and warm at home?

So what.

I'm kind of intrigued.

So there's this.

There's a show that I listen to,.

Called Judge John Hodgman.

So he's a.

He's a podcast read.

He's done a lot of advertising.

He's on the Daily show, and he does a podcast that I greatly enjoy listening to.

And they do a lot of small complaints, right?

These are fun little things from people.

That are quibbling or just different things.

And one of the things that they've.

Always talked about is there's a.

There's one fundamental difference between a collection.

And a hoard, and that's a display case, is there's this intention, right?

There's an intention behind it.

And I think that's the biggest thing is with anything is there's.

You're just having stuff, and then there's an intent.

And the intent requires action and decisions to say, hey, I want people to see this.

Is that part of your process to say, hey, you like this stuff?

You know, show it off, make it.

Part of your experience?

Well, that actually happened because I had a beautiful china cabinet, and years ago, I would.

I would stuff Tupperware in it.

And a friend came in who's actually a great organizer, and she said to me, you know, you have this beautiful case.

You should be using it for display for your beautiful china.

Why do you put Tupperware in it?

I said, well, I need a place to store it.

She goes, it shouldn't be there.

Yeah.

So that kind of taught me a lesson about that.

Well, and that's also like, you know, when we.

When you walked in, you're like, oh, there's, you know, all the bottles up.

For me, it's having, you know, I.

Want to tell a story with the ones that are on a specific shelf.

Right.

They're there for a reason.

Now, the rest of them are, you.

Know, on shelves and organized and everything.

Else, but the ones that are on a specific shelf are there for a.

Reason, because there's either it's something I want people to ask about or, like,.

I see, like, oh, there's some vintage.

Stuff in the middle.

Well, I got that for my grandfather's.

House, you know, after.

You know, after they moved out, because.

He stopped drinking when I was.

Before I was born.

So all the stuff I found from.

So I have stuff back into.

I have an unopened bottle from the 70s, from the mid-70s.

And, like, okay, I'm excited to then crack into that and taste it with.

Somebody at some point.

Like, what an exciting thing to do.

But I think that's the option of.

Showing something is, oh, when we're talking about the stories, Right.

You want to talk about the story about something.

And for me, it's.

How do I describe my passion to somebody?

I think that's the opportunity you have.

If you go past quarter and you.

Get towards, you know, showing off the things that you love.

Mm.

Mm.

Less can be more.

Yeah.

If you talk about it.

Yeah.

And it's more.

More for life than it is for anything else.

So I guess what I'd like to know, like, as we're wrapping up is you.

You've done all the different things in life, Right.

So do you have something that you.

Are now you've been thinking about that.

You're like, oh, there's another angle I want to do.

Like, I've been enjoying the clutter thing.

I'm liking doing shows.

Do you have something else you're looking,.

You know, that you're angling towards that's.

Driving you from other passions?

Well, last year my goal was 625 goals because it was a landmark birthday year.

It's the year 25.

My birthday's on the 25th.

I did all these goals this year.

I was shocked to find out I actually reached my goals.

So I thought next year might be my year of no goals.

Oh, I love that.

And I thought maybe I should just sit around and do nothing for a year and see what happens.

But then I thought, well, then I'm next.

Yeah.

But I just thought, I've been so busy.

Wouldn't it be nice to do nothing?

Yeah, well, I think there's.

There is some.

There's some opportunity to.

Forcing reflection and forcing those moments of downtime to say, hey, maybe, you know, do I want to refocus on something else?

Because the constant doing, you know, is.

Something that, you know, I'm.

I'm always struggling with, is the constant doing.

Right.

I. I have a day job.

I have my passion projects.

I have, you know, any, you know, an athletic thing that I do.

And my schedule is super busy most of the time, and it's hard to.

Take that step back and reflect and.

Decide, hey, do I want to do more?

Do I want to do less?

Do I want to do something else?

I imagine that would be something that would be valuable during that time as well.

I know.

And then I said, then I could write about it.

I said, I've reached my goals in life now.

What?

Yeah, you know what?

I love the idea of writing about it too.

Do you find that writing is your.

Comfort zone when it comes to getting your thoughts out and communicating?

Yes, because I did start my career as a journalist.

More of like you'd call a lifestyle reporter.

Sure.

And so a little while ago I wrote for the now it's the Rock City Writers Group, a piece about how I dated my cleaning guy, which I will talk about in the show.

So the whole piece was about it.

We had nothing in common but my house.

But I didn't wanna break up with him because, gee, the house will miss him so much, you know, So I mean, stuff like that.

I said, oh, whoa, come on, everybod.

Everybody's in demand.

They're calling you.

No, I find that fantastic.

Right.

Like this is.

It's.

So.

You're being able to tie those life stories into this kind of show.

Like what, What a delight.

And I guess that's.

Yeah, let's finish off with this.

Would you call this a one person show?

Would you call this a discussion?

How would you describe the show format wise?

A one woman comedy show that everyone can relate to.

And they will walk out with more than just a good feeling because darn it all, I'm gonna get rid of some of my clutter at that show.

I've got stuff to give away, folks.

Well, so I think that's a great way to end it.

Tickets are $10 at rochesterfringe.com and is there any place you want people.

Do you have a place where people can follow you?

Otherwise?

I do have a page called Clutter is My Life Partner.

And I also have another page called Gentle Decluttering.

Oh, so that sounds very nice.

So there you go.

Well, Dan, thank you so much for coming over.

This was a delight.

Make sure you go to rochesterfringe.com to check out this show and all the other shows and we'll see you out on the fringe.

This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore podcast network.