Artwork for podcast The What's Next Podcast
What's Next with Steve Dennis
Episode 820th April 2021 • The What's Next Podcast • Active International
00:00:00 00:15:38

Share Episode

Shownotes

We speak to Steve Dennis, author of 'Remarkable Retail How to Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Disruption'.

Steve gives us an overview of the retail industry; the impacts of shopping mall oversupply, lack of diversified shopping experiences and the evolution of e-commerce. Steve also takes us through 'The 8 Essentials of Remarkable Retail', a framework that guides brands in the design of enduring, highly profitable and intensely customer-centric growth strategies.


**ABOUT STEVE DENNIS**

Steve Dennis is a leading global retail influencer, keynote speaker & consultant, Senior Forbes Contributor, and bestselling author, ‘Remarkable Retail'

Steve Dennis is a consultant, keynote speaker and author focused on retail growth and innovation. He has been named a top global retail influencer by multiple organizations and his thoughts on the future of shopping are regularly shared in his role as a Forbes Senior Contributor. His new best-selling book is "Remarkable Retail: How to Win & Keep Customers in the Age of Digital Disruption" and he is the host of the Remarkable Retail podcast.

During a 30 year career as a senior executive at two Fortune 500 retailers–and more recently as a strategic advisor–Steve has worked with dozens of retail, consumer, luxury and social impact brands to inspire, catalyze and design their journey to remarkable results.

As a sought-out keynote speaker, Steve has delivered talks on six continents, sharing his unique perspective on what it takes to reignite customer growth in a world of constant change and shifting consumer preferences.

He has contributed commentary to Bloomberg/Business Week, the BBC, CNBC, CNN, the Harvard Business Review and the Wall Street Journal, among many others.

Steve is currently the President of SageBerry Consulting. Prior to founding SageBerry, he was the chief strategy officer and SVP, multichannel marketing for the Neiman Marcus Group.

Steve received his MBA from Harvard and a BA from Tufts University.



**FOLLOW STEVE**

stevenpdennis.com

twitter.com/stevenpdennis

www.linkedin.com/in/stevenpdennis/

-------------------------------------------------------

**FOLLOW US**

INSTAGRAM - www.instagram.com/activeintworld

TWITTER - twitter.com/ActiveIntlUK

LINKEDIN - www.linkedin.com/company/active-international-uk

KARIM - twitter.com/karimkanji

PODCAST WEBSITE - www.thewhatsnextpodcast.com

Transcripts

Speaker:

- [Steve] Well, hi, I'm Steve Dennis.

Speaker:

I'm a consultant, author and speaker

Speaker:

on retail strategy and innovation.

Speaker:

I've been in the retail industry a really long time.

Speaker:

I don't really like to talk about it.

Speaker:

And I'm also the author of "Remarkable Retail,

Speaker:

How to Win & Keep Customers

Speaker:

in the Age of Digital Disruption."

Speaker:

- [Karim] Thank you, Steve, for joining me today.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Thanks for having me.

Speaker:

- [Karim] So, the book, "Remarkable Retail"

Speaker:

it's coming out at a...

Speaker:

It's very timely,

Speaker:

obviously not only over the past number of years,

Speaker:

have we had a growth in e-commerce,

Speaker:

but this pandemic has really changed people's buying habits.

Speaker:

And I know one of them has been and I know many people

Speaker:

have taken advantage of calling up or going online

Speaker:

and ordering groceries or whatever the case may be.

Speaker:

And then picking them up curbside, right?

Speaker:

There's this curbside pickup phenomenon

Speaker:

that we've been seeing this year.

Speaker:

And you mentioned...

Speaker:

You obviously mentioned that in your book,

Speaker:

but you also mentioned in your book about the customer

Speaker:

is the channel.

Speaker:

And you do reference consumers picking up groceries

Speaker:

or shopping curbside.

Speaker:

And I'm wondering if you could explain more

Speaker:

about this customer as the channel thing.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Yeah, well, one of the biggest mistakes

Speaker:

that a lot of retailers have made over the years

Speaker:

not just during the pandemic is thinking of e-commerce

Speaker:

and brick and mortar as largely distinct operations.

Speaker:

And I think what the pandemic has done is number one,

Speaker:

really reinforced the idea and accelerated the stats

Speaker:

around how consumers start most shopping journeys

Speaker:

in a digital channel even though the vast majority

Speaker:

of those digital shopping journeys

Speaker:

end up involving a store in some way.

Speaker:

But in particular what happened with the pandemic

Speaker:

is yes, we saw more kind of traditional e-commerce growth,

Speaker:

but we saw a lot more of this behavior

Speaker:

where stores are involved in what people call e-commerce.

Speaker:

So that's the curbside pickup that's buy online

Speaker:

or return to store.

Speaker:

It's online orders that are fulfilled by stores.

Speaker:

So if anything, it's actually

Speaker:

kind of ironically turned out that stores are going to be

Speaker:

even more important for a lot of retailers,

Speaker:

even though we've obviously seen

Speaker:

a growing shift to e-commerce.

Speaker:

But you know that shift to e-commerce

Speaker:

has been going on for 15 years.

Speaker:

Like that in itself is not new.

Speaker:

- [Karim] Yeah.

Speaker:

- [Steve] So the idea of the customers as the channel

Speaker:

is not to think about e-commerce versus brick and mortar,

Speaker:

it's to say, well, it's the focus on the customer

Speaker:

and our job is to figure it out how to reduce the friction

Speaker:

between shopping across those channels

Speaker:

but more particularly really elevate that experience

Speaker:

and in away that is truly remarkable,

Speaker:

which is really the thrust

Speaker:

and underlying principle in my book.

Speaker:

- [Karim] And previous to this pandemic,

Speaker:

the discussion around e-commerce has always been

Speaker:

e-commerce will grow at the detriment of bricks and mortar

Speaker:

but I think we've seen that one sort of needs the other.

Speaker:

E-commerce for grocery stores,

Speaker:

at least here in in Canada and in Toronto

Speaker:

needs the grocery stores in the neighborhoods

Speaker:

to fulfill that.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Yeah I...

Speaker:

Right. Oh, I'm sorry.

Speaker:

Go ahead.

Speaker:

- [Karim] No, so I was wondering whether or not

Speaker:

you had always thought in this way

Speaker:

and whether this will continue even post-pandemic?

Speaker:

- [Steve] So I think couple of things are going on there

Speaker:

that's important.

Speaker:

One is there's an aspect of online,

Speaker:

which e-commerce and sort of,

Speaker:

I hate to say traditional e-commerce

Speaker:

'cause that sounds a little bit funny,

Speaker:

but if you think about e-commerce,

Speaker:

at least in its early days,

Speaker:

it was sort of a better catalog,

Speaker:

mail order catalog business.

Speaker:

It basically use technology to automate ordering

Speaker:

but the basic fulfillment was very similar

Speaker:

to what catalog company has been doing forever

Speaker:

which is to pick, pack and ship a product

Speaker:

in the central distribution location and mail it to you.

Speaker:

I think that was e-commerce

Speaker:

that has been the bulk of Amazon's business for example

Speaker:

other than digital downloading.

Speaker:

So that sort of e-commerce is really great

Speaker:

for certain kinds of products,

Speaker:

largely around where it's just convenient to order it online

Speaker:

and have it show up at your home or office.

Speaker:

So, and that part of e-commerce for the most part,

Speaker:

doesn't really involve a store.

Speaker:

You may go to a store to check out the product

Speaker:

and order online,

Speaker:

but a lot of e-commerce and particularly

Speaker:

what's happened in the last several years

Speaker:

and really accelerated by the pandemic

Speaker:

has involvement from the store

Speaker:

because the customer is either going there

Speaker:

to talk to a sales associate or get ideas

Speaker:

or put an outfit together or whatever and or I guess,

Speaker:

the store has a role in fulfilling that order.

Speaker:

So it's been going on and I think just generally people

Speaker:

have been a little bit too black and white

Speaker:

about talking about e-commerce and the main thing

Speaker:

is really blended altogether.

Speaker:

The kind of pure e-commerce

Speaker:

for the most part doesn't really exist.

Speaker:

Even some of these newer brands that started online

Speaker:

they're all opening stores

Speaker:

because they realized that there's a big aspect

Speaker:

of commerce that is a merger or a hybrid

Speaker:

of physical and digital.

Speaker:

- [Karim] I know e-marketer recently was talking

Speaker:

in one of their episodes about the future of shopping malls.

Speaker:

And so when you think of adjusting

Speaker:

a black and white framework you think,

Speaker:

"Okay, shopping malls are going to end,

Speaker:

no need to go into store and walk around and stuff."

Speaker:

But I'm curious whether there's a reinvention

Speaker:

of shopping malls when to keep this in mind.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Well, I hope so.

Speaker:

I think, again, there's a little bit of the devil

Speaker:

in the details.

Speaker:

I mean- - [Karim] sure.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Shopping malls have been losing...

Speaker:

I mean, well, one in the US in particular,

Speaker:

but I know in Canada in some other markets,

Speaker:

there was a real boom in building shopping markets

Speaker:

and shopping malls and shopping centers

Speaker:

for the past 20 years.

Speaker:

And so one of the things that happened in general

Speaker:

was that the capacity that was developed

Speaker:

in malls and shopping centers was much greater

Speaker:

than the demand overall.

Speaker:

So there was going to be a reckoning at some point.

Speaker:

And the pandemic is really forcing that.

Speaker:

But the other thing is that a lot of this shopping malls,

Speaker:

not all but a lot of the shopping malls really

Speaker:

were highly dependent on apparel and were highly dependent

Speaker:

upon department store anchors.

Speaker:

Most of which have really been struggling

Speaker:

for many, many years.

Speaker:

And in fact, a lot of people say,

Speaker:

"Oh, well, e-commerce really is what has caused

Speaker:

these department stores or malls to get in trouble."

Speaker:

And actually, if you look and particularly

Speaker:

until recent years, most of the market share that was lost

Speaker:

by department stores actually went to off-price retailers

Speaker:

and discount mass-merchants and fast fashion companies

Speaker:

and other specialty retailers.

Speaker:

It wasn't so much that it was captured by e-commerce

Speaker:

plus all of those stores could have e-commerce themselves

Speaker:

like a e-commerce didn't have to be the reason

Speaker:

that some of these stores or some of these malls

Speaker:

got into trouble.

Speaker:

But it is absolutely the case that a lot of these malls

Speaker:

were overly reliant on concepts

Speaker:

that really didn't innovate enough

Speaker:

and consumer preferences just switch

Speaker:

to many more off-the-mall formats

Speaker:

and then more so on an e-commerce.

Speaker:

But I think what you generally see is

Speaker:

that the very best malls,

Speaker:

particularly the ones that are more,

Speaker:

have a stronger tenant mixes

Speaker:

and maybe a good mix of restaurants and entertainment,

Speaker:

I think most of those will do pretty well

Speaker:

without a tremendous amount of change.

Speaker:

But the malls that didn't reinvent themselves

Speaker:

and have just a ton of space devoted to retailers

Speaker:

that are really dinosaurs in this era,

Speaker:

I mean most of those are either going to get bulldozed

Speaker:

or really need to reinvent themselves.

Speaker:

So we'll see.

Speaker:

I mean, it's hard to attract capital,

Speaker:

I think to invest in some of these more mediocre malls,

Speaker:

the malls that have a good customer base, a good tenant mix.

Speaker:

I think, they need some reimagination

Speaker:

but I suspect that the top 20% of malls will do pretty well

Speaker:

once we get beyond the pandemic.

Speaker:

- [Karim] That's really interesting.

Speaker:

And I'm curious about this one.

Speaker:

So small independent companies,

Speaker:

they may or may not have a retail location.

Speaker:

Maybe they are working with your traditional grocery stores

Speaker:

to get their product on the shelves,

Speaker:

but they've started to open up

Speaker:

their own e-commerce capabilities, right.

Speaker:

So yes, they might have some product on Amazon

Speaker:

but they've got their own Shopify store.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Yeah.

Speaker:

- [Karim] I'm wondering if there's an opportunity

Speaker:

in e-commerce outside of Amazon,

Speaker:

outside of being reliant on shelving fees

Speaker:

that these companies have with their own store.

Speaker:

Can they compete even with free shipping

Speaker:

and things like that that Amazon provides?

Speaker:

- [Steve] Well, it's certainly it's certainly tough

Speaker:

for the smaller guys to compete with the big guys.

Speaker:

And what I generally say is that you need

Speaker:

to really make the different or understand the difference

Speaker:

between what I call and talk about a little bit in the book

Speaker:

as table stakes and differentiators.

Speaker:

And by that, I mean there are some things

Speaker:

that you just have to do to be in the game.

Speaker:

So it's pretty hard to imagine how a retailer of any size

Speaker:

can have at least basic e-commerce capabilities.

Speaker:

And so thankfully, there is Shopify and there is BigCommerce

Speaker:

and there are ways to get those basic functions.

Speaker:

But you have to be really careful not to chase your tail

Speaker:

and gauge in a race to the bottom essentially,

Speaker:

trying to out Amazon Amazon.

Speaker:

- [Karim] Yeah.

Speaker:

- [Steve] So generally, I think figure out

Speaker:

those basic features that keep you in the game

Speaker:

but then it's going to be more about leaning into those things

Speaker:

that can really make you different.

Speaker:

So how can you focus maybe more deeply

Speaker:

on a particular set of customers

Speaker:

or offer unique and different products or offer service?

Speaker:

What's that thing that can be different enough

Speaker:

that a set of customers care about

Speaker:

that Amazon really for the most part or it could be Walmart

Speaker:

it could be whole host of other big retailers.

Speaker:

What are those things that customers will value

Speaker:

that you can uniquely deliver on?

Speaker:

Because if you start in a race to the bottom

Speaker:

or start in a race with Amazon,

Speaker:

I mean, you're basically going to get to this race

Speaker:

to the bottom

Speaker:

and Amazon's always going to have lower prices

Speaker:

and be able to kind of out supply chain.

Speaker:

So- - [Karim] Yeah.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Pick your battles, pick those basic things

Speaker:

to keep you in the game

Speaker:

but pick those places where you can really win

Speaker:

over the long-term.

Speaker:

- [Karim] And wondering if this delves

Speaker:

into to this next question.

Speaker:

In the second part of your book,

Speaker:

you outline and you go into detail about

Speaker:

what you call the eight essentials.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Right.

Speaker:

- [Karim] And so I'm wondering Steve,

Speaker:

if you could quickly go through these eight essentials

Speaker:

and I'm wondering if there was one

Speaker:

that might be the most underrated one.

Speaker:

One that's most overlooked I would say

Speaker:

by brands or companies.

Speaker:

- [Steve] Sure. So I'll just quickly mention what they are.

Speaker:

So the first six I do talk about as being table stakes.

Speaker:

In other words, if you're not pretty good at them,

Speaker:

you're probably at a disadvantage.

Speaker:

So number one is digitally enabled.

Speaker:

So this is the idea of really using digital technology

Speaker:

to enhance the customer experience.

Speaker:

Number two is human centered,

Speaker:

which is just a little bit different spin

Speaker:

on thinking about customers, I guess, in a broader way.

Speaker:

Three is harmonized,

Speaker:

which is some of what we were talking about earlier

Speaker:

which is really understanding how to blend digital

Speaker:

and physical in interesting ways.

Speaker:

Fourth is I'm probably going to screw them up in the order,

Speaker:

but fourth is mobile.

Speaker:

This really is a recognition of that mobile is,

Speaker:

when we talk about digitally-enabled shopping journeys

Speaker:

more and more of that is because customers

Speaker:

are shopping wherever they happen to be

Speaker:

on sort of some smart device.

Speaker:

Fifth is personal, which is idea of treating

Speaker:

different customers differently

Speaker:

and personalizing the experience.

Speaker:

Six is connected which is really leaning

Speaker:

into just how we're more connected to people,

Speaker:

whether that's through social media or getting reviews

Speaker:

and other things.

Speaker:

And then the two differentiators I talk about are memorable

Speaker:

which is how do you create an experience

Speaker:

that is really so much better

Speaker:

than what the competition can do

Speaker:

that literally customers will talk about

Speaker:

which is the key idea of remarkable.

Speaker:

And then eighth is radical

Speaker:

which is mostly about needing to constantly innovate

Speaker:

and build a culture of experimentation.

Speaker:

As your question about which one is the least appreciated.

Speaker:

I think it's probably personal.

Speaker:

I think particularly for smaller retailers,

Speaker:

well, I guess really retailers of all sides,

Speaker:

the really big guys sometimes tend to lean on

Speaker:

a one-size-fits-all approach.

Speaker:

And that often doesn't meet customers in a more...

Speaker:

As a customer intense and relevant way

Speaker:

as they would like to.

Speaker:

I think for smaller retailers, the opportunity is

Speaker:

if they've got that local knowledge

Speaker:

that has some unique products,

Speaker:

they have the ability to do more personal experience.

Speaker:

They can really leverage that.

Speaker:

But I think there just oftentimes tends to be this tendency

Speaker:

to do the easier or more efficient thing

Speaker:

which is to tend to treat customers a little bit

Speaker:

like they're all the same.

Speaker:

And that's where you can really get into trouble

Speaker:

as a big guy by allowing interesting segments

Speaker:

for competitors to go after.

Speaker:

As a smaller guy, it's sometimes just chasing your tail

Speaker:

trying to out Amazon Amazon, or out Walmart.

Speaker:

- [Karim] Steve, thanks so much for this conversation.

Speaker:

I've really enjoyed and appreciated it.

Speaker:

If people want to get ahold of your book

Speaker:

to read more about your thoughts as it pertains to retail,

Speaker:

where can they go?

Speaker:

- [Steve] Well, all of our social media generally,

Speaker:

@ Stephen P. Dennis.

Speaker:

My website is www.stevenpdennis.com.

Speaker:

And my book is available on Amazon

Speaker:

and just about anywhere else books are sold.

Speaker:

So you should be able to find it anywhere again.

Speaker:

- [Karim] Again, thank you so much, Steve.

Speaker:

- [Steve] You bet. It was great talking to you.

Speaker:

- [Narrator] Power your advertising.

Speaker:

Working with Active International enables you

Speaker:

to fund your advertising

Speaker:

using your company's own products, assets, or even services.

Speaker:

We have over 30 years of experience

Speaker:

connecting and bringing value to businesses

Speaker:

all over the globe,

Speaker:

helping many brands scale up into household names.

Speaker:

Want to achieve more from your marketing spend,

Chapters

Video

More from YouTube