Shownotes
Have you built a life that looks right on paper, but quietly feels split in two? Dr. Sonia Luckey, a board-certified psychiatric and family nurse practitioner and award-winning author of The Seventh Gate, joins host Sana to talk about what happens when a part of yourself has to stay hidden just to function in the world.
Sonia shares two decades of walking between two worlds, Western clinical care by day and shamanic, spiritual practice by night, and what it finally cost her to keep them separate. This conversation offers a grounded way to bring the clinical and the spiritual together instead of choosing one over the other, plus the early warning signs of a divided life that show up in women long before they realize what's happening.
About the Guest:
Dr. Sonia Luckey is a board-certified psychiatric mental health and family nurse practitioner with over two decades of clinical experience. She is the award-winning author of The Seventh Gate and founder of The Nightingale Way, where she blends psychology, spiritual psychology, and holistic modalities to help people integrate mental health and inner alignment.
Key Takeaways:
- A divided life often starts small: swallowing your words, keeping parts of yourself "off the record" in settings where they don't feel welcome.
- Clinical and spiritual approaches aren't opposites. They can work as layered tools in the same toolbox rather than an either-or choice.
- Early signs of a divided life in women often look like burnout: poor sleep, short temper, feeling like an imposter, or freezing when asked what you actually do.
- Separating a situation from the interpretation you add to it is a key step in noticing and correcting unhelpful thought patterns.
- Anxiety and depression aren't inherently bad. They're data points pointing to something in your life needing attention.
- A short, regular practice of stepping away, even just a few uninterrupted hours, can offer the clarity that a full retreat isn't always possible to take.
Connect With the Guest:
- Website: https://www.sonialuckey.com/
- LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sonia-luckey-dnp-285b019/
- Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sonialuckey/
- Book: The Seventh Gate: A Novel of Awakening and Inner Power
Episode Chapters:
[00:00] Living Two Lives That Never Touch — opening reflection on building a life that looks right but feels split
[04:30] (approx.) Two Decades of Hidden Practice — Sonia's own journey between clinical work and shamanic training
[10:15] (approx.) Why the Gap Exists — reframing Western medicine and spiritual healing as a continuum, not opposites
[15:00] (approx.) The Desert Story — a diabetes patient, a shaman, and what happens when both worlds work together
[20:45] (approx.) Early Warning Signs in Women — the quiet burnout signals that show up before anyone notices
[26:30] (approx.) Tools, Not Dependence — teaching people to become their own counselor through a simple framework
[31:00] (approx.) Changing the Cultural Narrative — rethinking what it means to stay home, speak up, or choose differently
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Transcripts
00:00:07 Sana: Welcome back to Inner Peace. Better health, dear listeners. I am Sana and for today's episode we are going somewhere where I believe that, you know, when we look at our lives once again, you know, it's kind of an introspective thing that I'm going to talk about when we can build a life that works perfectly on paper, like, you know, you get your good grades, you have a great, let's say, an academic record. Or maybe you just settle, you know, you're good to go, you're good to go have your job or build your business up, get settled. And, you know, you kind of have a template set like your life goals. I mean, the career credentials and then, you know, everyone around you, they respect you. But then do you think, do you ever imagine or do you get that feeling that you are kind of quietly living two separate lives that never quite touch? Yeah. Think about it. Think about it. But while you think about it,
00:01:14 Sana: welcome back, all of you to Inner Peace, better health once again. And listeners, today we are sitting down with someone who is an award winning author of The Seventh Gate, which is and she's a board certified psychiatric and family nurse practitioner, speaker and a guide whose work bridges psychology, consciousness and spiritual awakening. After more than two decades in mental health, my guest became fascinated by experiences that traditional clinical models couldn't fully explain. So let's get started and let's welcome our guest doctor Sonia Lucky. Doctor Sonia, welcome to the show and such an honor.
00:01:55 Sonia Luckey: I'm delighted to be here. Thank you so much.
00:01:59 Sana: Okay. Um, Sonia, I kind of am imagining, um, there is a connection. I mean, you you have been in psychology, so it's the kind of the clinical conventional, industry or category or segment, whatever we can call and then something which, it's kind of has its own not pros and cons, but I think there's a lot of divided opinions on that. You know, some some may call it woo woo, some may call it, you know, you won't be able to understand because you haven't gone through it. So it's quite an interesting blend here. So I'm kind of seeing, you know, two separate like, you know, streams here. So if you can share with our listeners how it all blended, how it all panned out, like what was the journey?
00:02:47 Sonia Luckey: Well, it started actually when I was very young. At the beginning of my career, I had always been interested in spirituality and not just, I mean, regular spirituality, but also, um, what we would, what people call alternative medicine, you know, shamanic medicine, um, cultural things. And early in my nursing career, what I noticed is that there were lots of people who would come to me for regular health care, but I knew because they were from different cultures, countries and different cultures, that they also had beliefs and practices that that they weren't talking about. And so I started asking them about that as part of their practice and really started it's things all this all these information started to come out and people really shared the different things that they did in order to take care of themselves. And as my career progressed and I became more interested in the spirituality, I also had to keep it separate. Right? So Friday, I was a clinician and a nurse practitioner in very Western. Right. But evenings and weekends, I was a Reiki healer, a shamanic practitioner. Um, I studied curanderismo and like just, I studied all these modalities because I loved them. And what I found was that after twenty years or so, I was really living two lives. And for a while it was not a problem. But over time, I really began to feel that it was having an impact on me to have these two very different lives and knowing that one of them really wanted to come forward, but I had to keep it under wraps and on the weekend.
00:04:42 Sana: I mean, twenty years, twenty years. And and that's why, I could actually, uh, connect the dots in there because it's like, um, not, I mean, this, this particular, uh, scenario that I'm sharing, it's not exactly connected with, with your, uh, you know, journey here, but then I believe I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. It's like, two years back, you are in the traditional nine to five scenario. You just are trying to set your footing in the corporate world. But then you, you come across something and you just try to manage both of the things together. Like, you know, generally we would call it as a side hustle That's right. Come back and your entire day goes in your office and then maybe in the evening or late nights, you are doing it only for one single reason. I believe for me it was the passion or the interest of exploring something very new and different from what I was usually doing. So it was helping me to explore more about myself. Uh, for you, it was, you know, you already had, uh, you know, your leaning, your alignment towards spirituality, uh, and not the kind of spirituality people would immediately, you know, imagine about, but it is something, you know, which is very different from the clinical settings. So I can understand, I mean, it was definitely, uh, energy consuming for you. Exhausting.
00:06:13 Sonia Luckey: Yeah. And it's universal, you know, I mean, you, you said that, that you thought it was pretty different, but I really have found that it's quite universal. And where it becomes universal is in what you just said, where you feel like you can't cross something, like there's a line or a boundary that you come up against and it's like, oh, can't talk about that. We need to like where you kind of start to swell at some point. And I started doing this, I would swallow my words and it's like, okay, I can't say that in this setting. And then what would happen is then the way I dealt with it is that I would do my regular medical visit. And then at the end of the visit, I would say, okay, so now we've done this piece of it, but I want to ask you an extra question about what you're doing. And then I would end up having a separate discussion. That was it wasn't so much off the record, right? Because, you know, and, and I would document it really as the mental health slash spirituality, which everybody in the, you know, in the Western medicine will say that's very important, but yet it doesn't really get addressed. And so that's where I saw the opening to, to kind of get my foot further in and crack that open to say, you know, this is important to include, you need to ask these kinds of questions. And these are the kinds of questions and discussions to ask and how it affects somebody. You know, I know that when I was not allowed to express that that lack or not that lack of, but that inability to express it in whatever setting I was is what really started ultimately to impact my, my satisfaction at work. It impacted my, what I felt was the, the, the care that I was giving someone like I couldn't give them my one hundred percent. I had to stop at ninety six percent, you know, or whatever it was. So that's when I realized that this is something that really needed to be addressed, because then I started to see it in my patients and in my clients, the women that were having mental health issues. And when we really dug down deep beyond the anxiety, beyond the depression, beyond the burnout, that was the bottom line of it is that they couldn't express something that they wanted to put into the world that they knew was important, and they felt like they didn't have the avenue to do it.
00:08:40 Sana: MM. Now it makes sense. It makes sense. That's exactly. I want to ask you, uh, Doctor Sonia, because. And I'm, I'm just, having this very, uh, not generalized, but whatever I know, uh, because, I mean, not exactly. We have a good idea about the clinical part of the psychology here, but mostly when we see at the traditional settings in psychology, it's about the diagnosis, the therapies, the, the, what kind of pills or solutions are suggested or advised. Um, and then on the flip side, if we talk about, um, the ways, around more in a spiritual settings or more on the soul level settings, or you take the example, excuse me, of, of, you know, for example, plant medicines, um, or, some alternative ways they have their pros and cons. Why do you think that this there is still a bridge or not bridge a gap between both of these? Is it because that um, one setting, it is completely science. It's based on research and, and all the, you know, practical methods. And one is completely, uh, woo woo or, uh, something which cannot be measured and, and proven something like that. That is why this gap still remains. Or is it because of something else?
00:10:10 Sonia Luckey: No, I think they're related. And I think what has happened is that people have put it into this either or category. You know, it's like it has to be on the western side, the science and the studies and all that. And then on the other, the other, what flip side, if you will, is it's, it's more experiential. It's handed down through cultures and medicine people and over thousands of years sometimes. Right. And where my work really comes into play is the bridge between the two, because I think it's actually a continuum because I was able to bring both of those in. And I'll give you an example of one of my favorite patient stories. Um, years ago, early in my career, I worked in a diabetes clinic and a young man came in and a normal blood sugar, um, for diabetes purposes is like eighty to one hundred twenty, right? First thing in the morning. And this young man came in and his blood sugar was eight hundred, okay. Which at that time, you know, would land you in the hospital and they would put in an IV and like it was an emergency. Right? And so he's in my clinic and he's young. So because he's young, he's able to just walk and talk and, and communicate. And I told him the gravity of the situation and what I needed to do. And he said, please. He goes, you know, he was Native American. And he said, just let me go out into the desert with my shaman and I can take care of this. And I, you know, basically had to say, I can't let you out of my clinic like the medical guidelines. Right. And I and I had to negotiate with him and say, you know what? Let's I won't put you in the hospital. I'm going to keep you here in the clinic. But let me start the IV. Let's start some of this treatment to get you down to a safer level. Yeah. And I will. And, you know, this was hours of a negotiation. And but ultimately, I said you can I'll let you go as long as you promise to monitor your blood sugar. And I taught him how to use a meter and all that, and if it reached certain parameters, he agreed to come back in. So we did that, and he came back three weeks later after being in the desert with a shaman, and his blood sugar was perfect. It was just perfect. And I asked him what he had done, and he had taken the medication for a few days. And then, but everything else that he did with the cultural. And a lot of times when you look at these cultural medicines, the plant medicine and all these things, they're complementary. They're not against, you know, they're you if you if you can understand how to layer them together and work with them to lay them together, then there are extra tools in the toolbox, which is what I always did with my patients. And so he came back and I actually took care of him for years. MM.
00:13:09 Sana: No, it's, it's a, it's a very, um, I think it's a very, it's a perfect example here. Perfect example because I mean, yeah, I mean, here, the, the, the degree of the situation, the seriousness, it's very high. It was very high. And of course, you cannot just let couldn't let the let the person go or, you know, or have the conditions where the risk is higher. Um, but then how do you decide, Sonia, that, you know, in your own practice when something calls for a clinical lens versus a spiritual one?
00:13:47 Sonia Luckey: So my personal feeling over, over time is that evolved is that, you know, nearly everything has a spiritual basis. It all has a spiritual basis, right? Um, and when it gets ignored is when then it becomes more of a physical issue. And what I decided really was that there were plenty of people that are out here, um, willing to do the medical model and prescribe the medications and do that. So I actually stepped away from that practice. And now what I do is that I work on the other side of the continuum more in the spiritual side, helping guide people who are interested in using these other modalities, but also being having the guardrails of keeping them safe. Right. And what to look out for and applying the spiritual psychology, which is it's more than talk therapy. So I do pull in the psychology and those tools because those make really good frameworks to work within. But I'm talking about, I mean, I'm using cognitive behavioral therapy. I'm using the normal modalities, but the language within that is spiritual. So that I'm doing blending them together so that, yes, we'll go through these frameworks and they're very successful. But at the end of the day, when you say, okay, now that you've processed whatever this issue or problem was, let's talk about what it means for you spiritually. How is that going to help you rise farther and advance your spiritual journey? And like, how do we use these situations that we discuss in mental health to help further ourselves and make ourselves better and make the planet better and make the spiritual journey more meaningful? And that's the difference, I think.
00:15:40 Sana: MM. I think one thing for sure, which you mentioned a few minutes back, is, you know, um, these are tools in your toolbox and they're complementing each other. So I think, uh, of course, you know, when it comes, it's not about choosing which one is right or wrong, but it's a fair tension to hold because I think a lot of practitioners, they feel pressured to pick one lens entirely. Like, you know, um, I mean, honestly, honestly, I mean, I would have been in a spot because it's it's a lot of pressure. But then I also believe that, uh, what you are saying here, it is requiring holding both without collapsing either or without, you know, uh, dehumanizing or criticizing in a bad way.
00:16:32 Sonia Luckey: Correct. Yes. Because sometimes you do need medication, sometimes it's necessary. Right. And so on the other side of it, what's really important is the foundation. So what foundations does someone have when they walk in? I mean, I've got a great toolbox and it's pretty big, but it's been built over time, right? So when someone comes to me and the first thing I'm doing is an assessment, right? And I put my psychiatry hat on when I do that, because I want to, again, make sure someone's going to be safe and that there's not something else that that might impact. Like sometimes there's a medical need that needs to be addressed, but to really say, okay, like, where's your foundation? Like what foundational practices is someone using? Is it Reiki? Is it mindfulness? Is it meditation? Like what? What do you have? And I start, I start there and then if they if I'm seeing gaps in their toolbox, then then I help fill it in and teach them some practices that for me are absolutely foundational to be able to hold your center when you're moving around in the world every day, because we all can't sit on our cushion with our eyes closed all day, much as we might like to. You have to go out and deal with people. So when the world is really throwing something at you, what are you able to do in the moment in order to maintain who you really are and and still and then be the light that you are in that situation because we all can't quit our jobs and go live in a mountain, you know, in a monastery either. So, so that's really my focus is really giving people everyday practical tools that, um, that help them tap into their innermost resources and still developing those inner resources as we work together.
00:18:24 Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean.
00:18:25 Sana: Absolutely, absolutely makes sense. that's, that's what is actually the more important thing because, uh, for a very long time, uh, all of the, the marketing or the conversations or the resources, they have been putting stress more on this, you know, alternate version that, okay, you have to leave everything and, go somewhere and find your peace. But it is not possible for everyone. I'm not saying that it's not possible at all. I think it's a choice, but then it shouldn't be like a random choice, you know? Uh, because we cannot just escape everything and seek for bliss or calmness or, you know, a good life.
00:19:08 Sonia Luckey: And there are so many ways to do it. I think that's the other thing is helping open up the possibilities. Like for example, I mean, I would love to get away, but I can't. And I personally take a personal Sabbath each week where I come into my office and I close all the doors and I like, I cut off from the world, but instead of doing it for weeks or months, I do it for a period of eight hours or ten hours. Or if I'm really lucky, I'll, you know, I'll do an overnighter with that. And so but that's enough to really help me clear, like really practice my tools. Because the other thing is that, you know, it does afford you the clarity to do a deep dive and, and it's, and doing that deep dive with yourself is, um, really how people, I think go by leaps and bounds because there's not the interruptions and the extra noise. And so being able to sit down with my tools and work through, okay, what am I thinking about? What do I want? What's not working the way I want to in life and be able to evaluate it through steps and through a framework. And I always come out with something more. Always without fail. That's exciting.
00:20:25 Speaker 4: Yes it is.
00:20:27 Sana: and for the women you work with specifically Sonia, what does living a divided life actually is? Are there any common early warning signs, you know, that you see repeating across very different women? Something that shows up before they consciously realize that you know what's happening.
00:20:47 Sonia Luckey: Yeah. A lot of times it starts, I think the earliest warning signs are when it starts to look like burnout, right? Um, because usually what's happening is that, I mean, women do. They're taking care of children. They're taking care of parents. They have their job, they have a career. They're trying to build a side hustle. They want to work, focus on their spirituality. And when it all starts to run together, and then they feel like they can't do any of it because they're trying to do all of it right. Then we start to to see the signs of like, you're not sleeping very well. You're short tempered. Um, you, you know, sometimes women will go through like they start feeling like an imposter. Um, or if they try to do, if they're, if they're trying to build a business or build their spiritual life and someone says, what do you do? They freeze, right? They feel like they can't really talk about it. All of these things feeling overwhelmed by just the practical piece or the technical piece, or feeling like they don't have support or community, or feeling guilty for trying to take time for themselves. All of these things, and they're not bad. I mean, anxiety is not bad. Depression isn't bad. It's information and they're data points. And so what tends to happen is that women start beating themselves up about it, right? Because they feel like they should be a certain way and they should have done like they start shooting everything. And really what they need is to sit down and kind of it's really helpful to talk it through with somebody and give themselves grace and admit, yes, this is time that we're taking on a lot. And it is common. And as much as people would like to put it out on social media, how great they're handling it all, they're they're not. That's the truth. And so when we look at the truth and we allow that, then we can start to notice where is what we want to express and be in the world being interrupted. Like what, what are those situations and how is it showing up in our thoughts and in our emotions and in our body and in our behavior? And, and then from there, I teach women how to like, separate that situation from the interpretation that they're adding to it and remove like the cognitive distortions, which is really just thoughts that are trying to be protective, but they're misfiring and they're instead either making the situation worse or keeping you from moving forward. And then after that, then they can take the steps forward in a more conscious response that they want. And then once they're able to decide this is the meaningful change I'm going to make or what what's, and be able to also look inside them along the way and see what's happening with their feelings. And you know, what happens in their body, right? Because if you're all tightened up and you're going to get an ulcer in your stomach, if you're not doing it the right way, not the right way, but if you're not paying attention to your body, and then how do you carry it forward? You know, it's like a four or five step process and it's not hard. But, um, most people don't until they break it all down, they don't really realize that there are those steps. but once they have it, then they can work themselves through it. And so, um, and I have a short worksheet that I use like in, in a workshop or just with someone, like if they've only got ten or fifteen minutes to think it through and I'm happy to share that with you for your listeners. Um, but it's a great introduction. And then once they learn that process, now they've got tools and that's always my goal is to teach my clients the tools so that they can be their own counselor and their own counseling and not have to depend on me or anybody else to be able to move forward. It's like it should be. It's between you and your soul and, and open up and let the heart and the mind connect together so that you can have that conversation with your soul. Then you're going to be able to fly.
00:25:03 Speaker 4: I mean.
00:25:04 Sana: Of course, of course. And I think, I think just, kind of, um, a few thoughts here. I mean, first of all, I think your, uh, experience in the clinical world also kind of becomes a, becomes an added advantage here because, um, at least, there are situations where you need medical attention as well. So there, you need guidance from someone who is qualified and, you know, um, they are, they have practiced and, and they have a better idea about, you know, where to exactly apply. So I think that's an added advantage. Um, secondly, you mentioned about, you know, the divided life, especially for women, I think there's a, there's a huge cultural component here as well. Sonia because, um, you know, especially, um, in many cultures, you know, when um, towards the women being more liberalized and being more in the more freer to becoming freer to choose, you know, whether they want to have a career, whether they want to become a businesswoman or whether they want to, um, get into something which is very different from the usual, you know, uh, streams or career options. There are always questions around, you know, like if you want to also just become a simple homemaker, then also this question, if you just want to have like you become, want to become a working, um, you know, let's say a working mom or something like that always there are questions and then, you know, there's a cultural component where, um, you know, when you are going outside, you, you feel the freedom because you know, you don't have that kind of environment. Probably probably back at home. It is more restricted, more rigid, and you are in certain stricter boundaries. So it kind of feels like you are caged in. You cannot Express your emotions fully. You cannot have the liberty to have your own schedule. So you know, there's a lot of expectations.
00:27:13 Sonia Luckey: Yeah, yeah, it does depend on what that individual environment is, because there are some women that love being at home and they don't want to go outside. they, that's, that's their the introvert, the extreme introvert. Yeah. But I think it's the, I think what, what you're kind of coming toward here is the, the narrative. Yes. Like what the cultural narrative that's here. And so the, the component of that, I think what's unique and exciting about where we are now in this time is that we are getting to change the narrative and define it in different ways as we move toward the new earth. And I think we can now speak up about the things that are happening in our society, in our world, that that we don't want to continue and that we don't prefer. And by speaking our voice and putting our expression out there, it's offering the alternative. And it's like what this podcast does, right? Like this is like it used to be or still is for a lot of people, their idea of entertainment is, is watching something that can be very violent on TV. Right. I can't watch, I can't do I know I can't do that, but people like that's how they quote relax. And it's like, okay, well, let's, let's offer another alternative. What if, you know, what if we tried it this way? And what if we defined these things and put out and gave these options? Right. Um, I mean, there's nothing simple about being a homemaker, that's for sure. And there's so much, I think especially women who stay home feel like they aren't contributing, but it's like, come on, you're creating the humans that are going to run the world, teach them and, and, and, and teaching them the values and the way how to move in the world. So what better way to to know and practice that yourself so that we can teach our children? I mean, my dream is really that we can start teaching these principles and practices that we talk about to children at a younger age, instead of them having to figure it out in their twenties and 30s and beyond, you know, like, like, let's make that part of normal, growing quote, normal growing up.
00:29:28 Speaker 4: Absolutely.
00:29:30 Sana: Sonia, before we close, if we can, uh, tell our listeners where they can find you, uh, the seventh gate and the worksheet that you mentioned so that we can share with them once we are sharing the episode with them.
00:29:43 Sonia Luckey: Yes. Thank you for that. And The Seventh Gate is the novel that I wrote. Um, and where it came from is these, um, the spiritual psychology practices and process that I was teaching my patients. I was actually writing it as a self-help book and telling one of my patients about it until she said, you know, Doctor Lucky, I know I need to learn and use these skills, but at the end of the day, I'm tired and I just want to read a story. And so I thought about that and I'm like, okay. So I made it a story that demonstrates what the skills look like in practice. And that became the seventh gate. So it's available, um, like at Amazon and all the normal places. It's also on my website at Sonya lucky dot com. And on the website, there is the option to follow the story or follow the science, which is this, these other pieces that we've been talking about. So this worksheet is available for free. And there's actually a workbook that goes with it. And shortly there will also be like a video, like a thirty minute video that teaches it as well, so that people have a choice of how they look at the tools and take them in and, and hopefully get started on their journey.
00:30:57 Sana: So listeners, as you all know, I'll have all the links and details in the show notes or the description section, so do find all of that attached along with this episode. And thank you so much, Sonia, for this. Um, I think really crucial. And, um, you know, a very, uh, I think it was a, it was a, it was an enlightening conversation. Thank you so much.
00:31:22 Sonia Luckey: For me as well. Thank you. Blessings to all of you.
00:31:26 Sana: And thank you to all of you listeners, beautiful listeners who have been such a beautiful part of Inner Peace Better Health podcast. So if you think, if you realize that you got some value from the this thirty minute episode, do share this with your friends, your colleagues, your loved ones, your acquaintances, and do follow the podcast Inner Peace, Better Health on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you're tuning in. But I'm Sana and I'll be back soon with another episode. Thank you so much.
