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ARK: Survival Evolved as Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with ZombaeKillz
Episode 122nd September 2020 • Pixel Therapy Pod • Pixel Therapy Pod
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ZombaeKillz, rising Twitch streamer star, joins the Pixel Therapy podcast to talk Blacktivism, invisible disabilities, parenting, and her video game history. Then, she shares how ARK: Survival Evolved taught her how video games could help her manage and overcome chronic pain-- and how she built an inclusive community of gamers on Discord that continues to grow and push back against the "overwhelming monolith of whiteness" that Black folks, non-Black POC, queer and transgender folks, and the disabled and chronically ill community often experience when trying to break into the video gaming industry. Other topics covered: what's it mean when streamers say 'no politics?', gaming with kids, privilege, dealing with racists sliding into your DMs, being on 75 Discord servers, survival games, poop management, paying it forward with love, self-care, living with lupus, moving through grief, lifting each other up, the Black Lives Matter movement.

About ZombaeKillz:

ZombaeKillz is a variety streamer, activist, BLERD and swear word extraordinaire. Zombae's popularity has exploded in her year-long career-- she's appeared all over the internet, from streams with Lowco, to chatting on Spawn on Me with Kahlief Adams, to mentions in articles from GameStop and TIME. As an activist and community organizer, she advocates in Jackson, Mississippi for the rights of women who are incarcerated, people who are houseless, and the hungry. Follow ZombaeKillz for "C+ gaming but A+ entertainment!"

Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/Zombaekillz

Twitter: https://twitter.com/ZombaeKillz

Donate to Draw A Smile in Jackson, Mississippi: https://www.drawsmile.org/donate/

About Pixel Therapy

New episodes drop every three weeks on Tuesdays. Learn more at pixeltherapypod.com or follow us on social media @pixeltherapypod. If you like what you hear, please take a moment to rate & subscribe!

Transcripts

ZombaeKillz:

And I love that people feel safe enough to be

ZombaeKillz:

that vulnerable in my space. And I will protect that space with

ZombaeKillz:

my life. And that's the community I want to build not

ZombaeKillz:

just in my discord but in my viewership. I want when you come

ZombaeKillz:

into my chat to feel like you just walked into a room of your

ZombaeKillz:

best friends, and we could just talk about whatever, because so

ZombaeKillz:

many streamers have like a whole bunch of rules, right, that are

ZombaeKillz:

super shitty and coded heavily for protecting whiteness.

Spencer:

Yes.

ZombaeKillz:

I'm just gonna be real - you're shitty. Hey, big

ZombaeKillz:

streamers who say no politics, fuck you.

Jamie:

Welcome to Pixel Therapy, the video game podcast where we

Jamie:

look at the games we play through the lens of the player,

Jamie:

where what you play is just as important as how you play it,

Jamie:

and where emotional intelligence is a critical stat. Every three

Jamie:

weeks we bring on a guest who may or may not consider

Jamie:

themselves a gamer to discuss one of the games that made them

Jamie:

and changed them and all the feelings they have about our

Jamie:

favorite pastime. I'm your co-host, Jamie, pronouns

Jamie:

she/her.

Spencer:

And I'm your co-host, Spencer, pronouns, they/them.

Jamie:

And this is Pixel Therapy. So pull up an armchair,

Jamie:

feel free to lie down on the couch, and let's talk about our

Jamie:

feelings. Spencer, what are you playing?

Spencer:

I'm glad you asked Jamie. I, well, I - it's not

Spencer:

very surprising, but I'm continuing to play Ghost of

Spencer:

Tsushima. Um, unfortunately, I turned to Ghost of Tsushima in a

Spencer:

place of - I was, I was very exhausted this weekend. We

Spencer:

actually had a very jam packed weekend, you and I of some

Spencer:

interviewing some really cool people.

Jamie:

Very cool people.

Spencer:

But I'm like an introvert and I'm pretty like

Spencer:

quiet when I'm alone. And so I felt like I needed to sort of

Spencer:

just retreat, get to pet some foxes like, take a peaceful ride

Spencer:

with Nobu among some deer. And I gotta say, so I just got to the

Spencer:

end of Act Two. And let me say first here, just some very mild

Spencer:

story emotion spoilers. If you're someone who doesn't want

Spencer:

to know anything at all about Ghost of Tsushima, feel free to

Spencer:

jump ahead a couple 15, 30 seconds. But essentially oh my

Spencer:

god, end of Act Two huh.

Jamie:

There's a blow there.

Spencer:

There's a blow. Okay, listen, Jin - I think the more

Spencer:

that I played Ghost, like, yes, the game itself functionally is

Jamie:

Yeah.

Jamie:

pretty straightforward. You know, you're, you're fighting

Jamie:

Mongols, you're leveling up, you're unlocking weapons and

Jamie:

armor. But I really find that that narrative, the, the

Jamie:

combination of the music, the narrative structure, and the

Jamie:

acting to be honest, like I find it to be a very emotionally

Jamie:

riveting story. And I I've really invested in Jin as a

Jamie:

character. Like, I guess, I'm used to playing silent

Jamie:

protagonists. And I have a very active imagination. So I usually

Jamie:

apply very rich character backgrounds on to folks that I

Jamie:

play, and well Jin isn't necessarily a silent hero. He is

Jamie:

very stoic, but there's something about him that I just

Jamie:

find very emotionally rich. I find him very earnest. Very

Jamie:

gentle.

Spencer:

He's a very, he really speaks with his eyes, like you

Spencer:

can really feel the the burning intensity inside of this man.

Spencer:

Um, and I like the way that he is sort of defining masculinity

Spencer:

for himself, defining power for himself. I find for me

Spencer:

personally, this story of, you know, not really knowing who

Spencer:

your father was, and having who he was told to you through the

Spencer:

perspectives of other people who you then learn maybe were biased

Spencer:

in how they spoke of this person and it's up to you to, to, to

Spencer:

find that peace with yourself. Like, I don't know, I find him

Spencer:

very relatable, both as a trans masculine person, as an Asian

Spencer:

person, as a, you know, there are lots of stereotypes about,

Spencer:

about Asian men about being submissive or being weak. And I

Spencer:

think that this game is a great reminder that, you know,

Spencer:

kindness and strength just because someone's quiet, or just

Spencer:

because someone isn't the loudest or biggest person in the

Spencer:

room doesn't mean they're not strong and powerful. I don't

Spencer:

know. I love this guy. Love me some Jin Sakai. Um, yeah. What

Spencer:

about you? What are you playing?

Jamie:

Well, I did finish Ghost of Tsushima this week. And I

Jamie:

really enjoyed it. I think we want to probably have a deeper

Jamie:

conversation about that when we've both finished it. I don't

Jamie:

want to spoil you, or anyone for that matter. And actually last

Jamie:

night, I cleaned up the last of the trophies and got the

Jamie:

Platinum.

Spencer:

Nice.

Jamie:

I primarily play on PlayStation. And I do like to go

Jamie:

for Plat I, you know, I wouldn't say I'm an avid trophy hunter,

Jamie:

but if I like a game I like to get the Platinum in it so I did

Jamie:

do that. It's a really fun Platinum experience for anybody

Jamie:

who's into that kind of a thing. It's not too difficult, feels

Jamie:

rewarding. And you do get some cool armor for getting the

Jamie:

Platinum.

Spencer:

Do you have like a strategy for going for Platinum?

Spencer:

Like I've never attempted that myself. I'm very much a "I'm in

Spencer:

it for the story" type of player but like, what's your sort of

Spencer:

drive behind going for Platinum?

Jamie:

Yeah, I mean, my drive. A part of it is probably like just

Jamie:

the collection collectathon-iness of it of like

Jamie:

having it and feeling like the game is fully completed. And,

Jamie:

and feeling like I've done you know, when when you have a good

Jamie:

Platinum, I think it - usually the trophies are set up in such

Jamie:

a way that it's encouraging you to experience the full breadth

Jamie:

of the game, especially with an open world game. If you are

Jamie:

getting the Platinum, then theoretically, you've seen a lot

Jamie:

of the the magic that the developers have hidden within

Jamie:

the world. It's you know, the trophies are set up to encourage

Jamie:

you to go find that kind of stuff. When it's a good trophy

Jamie:

list. There aren't always good trophy lists, but when it is, I

Jamie:

think it's really getting you to experience the fullness of what

Jamie:

the game has to offer. And especially when I like a game,

Jamie:

like it's cool to see that fullness. But in terms of

Jamie:

strategy and how I go about it. Usually, when I start a game,

Jamie:

I'll just look up the Trophy Guide for it. And most trophy

Jamie:

guides will at the very beginning of it have a very high

Jamie:

level like overview of how you would go about the trophy. It

Jamie:

will also rank the difficulty of the trophy, how long it takes to

Jamie:

get the trophy, that kind of stuff. And I'll kind of decide

Jamie:

based on that if I'm even interested in getting the

Jamie:

trophy. So if it's like a really difficult trophy to get I'm

Jamie:

like, Okay, if I superduper love this game, and I want to

Jamie:

challenge myself that way, maybe I'll go for it. But I'm gonna

Jamie:

put this aside for now. If it seems attainable. If it seems

Jamie:

like it's not gonna be a ridiculous hour investment then

Jamie:

I'll kind of look through the overview and see what they

Jamie:

recommend. The trophies or the trophy, the platinums I go for

Jamie:

the most frequently are the ones where you get to play through

Jamie:

the game initially, without worrying about trophies. I think

Jamie:

it does kind of ruin the experience for me to be really

Jamie:

stressing about getting trophies while I'm playing the game.

Jamie:

Because then you can kind of just turn the whole thing into

Jamie:

following a guide really closely, or I don't know, you're

Jamie:

just - it takes you out of the experience of the game. So

Spencer:

Yeah, I can see. Yeah,

Jamie:

Yeah, that's kind of what I'm looking for. And a lot of

Jamie:

games, especially open world games. Usually there aren't

Jamie:

missible trophies that's kind of you know, those guides will tell

Jamie:

you if there's any missible trophies, and usually if there

Jamie:

aren't, and I can play through the game initially and just

Jamie:

experience it, and then do either a second playthrough or

Jamie:

like a cleanup at the end of the game. Those are the ones I tend

Jamie:

to go for the most. Because then it's just a reason to spend more

Jamie:

time with the game and see more of it. Yeah.

Spencer:

I love what you said about the trophies being a way

Spencer:

to appreciate like all of the magic that the devs have set up

Spencer:

because it's so true that you can get so caught up in rushing

Spencer:

through in the heat of the moment when you're in a game. I

Spencer:

say that as someone who is very fired up in Act Three of Ghost

Spencer:

of Tsushima, but you know, there is a rich, rich world where

Spencer:

everything has been placed just so by up to like hundreds

Spencer:

sometimes of people working tirelessly for months. So yeah,

Spencer:

I can see trophies - Platinuming games - is a great way to just

Spencer:

appreciate that.

Jamie:

Yeah, for sure. So then, with that, with the Platinum

Jamie:

behind me, I've been playing Tell Me Why. Which is DONTNOD's

Jamie:

new episodic narrative game that just released on Xbox I'm not

Jamie:

usually an Xbox gamer, but we do have an Xbox in the house. So I

Jamie:

booted it up spent about two hours installing updates and

Jamie:

then downloaded Tell Me Why through Game Pass which you

Jamie:

know, I'm not an Xbox gamer, but I Game Pass really is a hell of

Jamie:

a deal. I was able to get the first month of it for $1 so

Jamie:

basically I've got access to this full Tell Me Why game for

Jamie:

$1 and if you don't know anything about Tell Me Why or

Jamie:

DONTNOD - DONTNOD created the Life is Strange series. They

Jamie:

have two games before this. They're all episodic, meaning

Jamie:

that they periodically release a two to three hour narrative

Jamie:

episode of the game. And then the story is continued across

Jamie:

further episodes. The first two seasons, both centered on young

Jamie:

folks who suddenly find they have some sort of supernatural

Jamie:

ability and, and how that impacts their lives. Tell Me Why

Jamie:

is not technically a Life is Strange game, but it has that -

Jamie:

the same elements. So it's about a twin brother and sister, the

Jamie:

brother is a trans man. And they had a traumatic experience in

Jamie:

their childhood that resulted in the brother being sent away to

Jamie:

juvenile detention facility for about 10 years. And they've just

Jamie:

reconnected. They're - the source of the traumatic

Jamie:

experience resulted in the murder of their mother. And they

Jamie:

are going back to their hometown to clean out their mother's

Jamie:

house, now a decade after the events and they realize in the

Jamie:

process, that they have this ability to share memories and

Jamie:

re-experience memories from their childhood. So that's kind

Jamie:

of the supernatural element and the the setup for the story. And

Jamie:

Spencer, we actually, so I've played the whole first episode,

Jamie:

but we actually played the first hour of the first episode

Jamie:

together. And yeah, what was your, what was your initial take

Jamie:

on, on watching that hour of the game?

Spencer:

Yeah, that was really fun. Because I, I have not

Spencer:

played an Xbox for a while. Sorry, Microsoft. But when Jamie

Spencer:

said, when you said, I have an Xbox, I was like, Well, I'm

Spencer:

coming over. Masks were worn.

Jamie:

Yes. Masks were worn.

Spencer:

But yeah, I was excited to read about Tell Me Why

Spencer:

because Tyler Ronan, the main character, was played by August

Spencer:

Black, who did the voice acting, as well as the motion capture

Spencer:

for Tyler. Um, so it was really awesome to see a trans masculine

Spencer:

actor playing this character and to hear that it was developed

Spencer:

in, in conjunction with collaboration from GLAAD. And so

Spencer:

I was really looking forward to the story. I think, too, I came

Spencer:

into it with a little trepidation, just because all we

Spencer:

knew going into the first episode was just that, it was

Spencer:

heavily implied that I mean, I guess this is mild spoilers for

Spencer:

anyone who hasn't played more than like, 10 minutes of the

Spencer:

game. But um, you know, the story opens heavily, implying

Spencer:

that Tyler, after cutting his hair as a child, incited

Spencer:

violence from his mother, who attacked him, because of his

Spencer:

gender identity, and then that resulted in her being stabbed to

Spencer:

death, and so in self defense. You know, it's a, that's just

Spencer:

something like, I think in general, when we talk about

Spencer:

violence, and trans media like, we often are referring to things

Spencer:

like being misgendered, and facing harassment, being

Spencer:

villainized, like all stereotypes, that become

Spencer:

exacerbated in a video game or, or movie telling. And so, I

Spencer:

think part of me too, was just sort of reacting to, you know,

Spencer:

the trans masculine experience itself isn't really talked about

Spencer:

a lot in the mainstream, like, really, like, if you if you go

Spencer:

on Wikipedia, and look up, trans representation in films, like,

Spencer:

when you look at the list of trans masculine representation

Spencer:

in films, there's like six bullet points. When you look at

Spencer:

the list for trans feminine representation in film, you see

Spencer:

hundreds of titles. And that's not to say that, you know, we

Spencer:

shouldn't be highlighting the experiences of trans women,

Spencer:

like, we definitely need to uplift the voices and stories

Spencer:

and experiences of trans women, especially Black and Brown trans

Spencer:

women. But what I what I am saying here is that I just feel

Spencer:

like there is woefully little, for trans masculine folks to

Spencer:

look to to see ourselves, and when the very little that we do

Spencer:

have is mired in the kind of violence that we see in at home

Spencer:

in our in our families. And sort of sensationalized in that way,

Spencer:

you know, made this very dramatic opening for a video

Spencer:

game. You know, it can be a little painful. And I I'm not at

Spencer:

all like, I have enjoyed the very first hour that we played

Spencer:

together. I said earlier, I'm super excited that this game

Spencer:

exists and that there is more to come. Like, I want to be 100%

Spencer:

clear that I know that there are two more chapters coming. And

Spencer:

I'm very excited to see where they take this story. And, you

Spencer:

know, it's not on any one trans male character to carry the

Spencer:

narratives for all of us. I think if anything, this will

Spencer:

hopefully open the doors for more. Um, but yeah, I just I

Spencer:

think too, I'm coming from a very personal place.

Jamie:

Yeah.

Spencer:

My relationship with my own mother was was very much

Spencer:

strained by my initial coming out. And so I'm bringing my own

Spencer:

lived experience and perspective into that. But yeah, I found

Spencer:

that, you know, it's very rare that you get an opportunity to

Spencer:

just fully step into the perspective of I mean, I can't

Spencer:

like - this is, as the media around it has proclaimed, like

Spencer:

the very first AAA title to have a playable trans main character

Spencer:

and and that, in itself is an awesome victory. And I'm, I

Spencer:

think, that August has done an awesome job with his own

Spencer:

contributions to the writing and acting of this character. And

Spencer:

I'm very, very excited to continue playing it or to watch

Spencer:

you play it. But yeah, having finished the first chapter, um,

Spencer:

how are you feeling?

Jamie:

Uh, I feel. Yeah, when we stopped after the hour that we

Jamie:

played together, and you were kind of sharing some of what you

Jamie:

were thinking with me, I couldn't help but agree. And I

Jamie:

don't want to get into spoilers here now. I think we want to

Jamie:

finish the game, and then maybe have a deeper conversation about

Jamie:

it. But I did finish the first chapter over the weekend. And it

Jamie:

does seem to be setting up a narrative that, again, if you

Jamie:

don't want to know anything at all about what's going on with

Jamie:

Tell Me Why then then dip out for about 20 seconds. But I'll

Jamie:

just say that, at the end of the first chapter, you do learn that

Jamie:

kind of the narrative that was initially set up in the first

Jamie:

hour is not exactly what we're going to get moving forward that

Jamie:

that things have been misunderstood. And, and now

Jamie:

we're actually going to try to try to learn more about the

Jamie:

history of this traumatic event that occur between this brother

Jamie:

and sister. And that it that it isn't as - everything isn't as

Jamie:

it initially seemed.

Spencer:

Dun, dun dun.

Jamie:

So I'm sorry, I'm interested to see where that

Jamie:

goes. I do think DONTNOD as a developer, their games, there's

Jamie:

always something in them that feels a little bit hokey and

Jamie:

stilted slightly like, it doesn't feel exactly like true

Jamie:

human interaction, but they do something special that I don't

Jamie:

think a lot of other games do. And they do seem to be trying to

Jamie:

bring narratives to the forefront to the AAA space that

Jamie:

you don't see told in that space very often. And in a lot of

Jamie:

ways, I just kind of wish they didn't think that they - and I'm

Jamie:

saying this about even Life is Strange seasons one and two as

Jamie:

well. Their, the narratives always have to center around

Jamie:

violence, and trauma. And I, maybe this just isn't what AAA

Jamie:

games are ever going to be. But it would be interesting to see

Jamie:

stories like this told about, about identities that are

Jamie:

subordinated that don't have to center them in, in, like

Jamie:

dramatic trauma to make them interesting to a mainstream

Jamie:

audience or to use that as a hook to draw people in. Because

Jamie:

I would be just as interested in Tyler's story if he hadn't been

Jamie:

accused of the murder of his mother.

Spencer:

Yes, thanks. Yeah. Thanks for saying that. I think

Spencer:

that that's awesome. Yeah, yeah.

Jamie:

But we're gonna talk about more. We're gonna talk

Jamie:

about that more in a future episode, I'm sure. But now we

Jamie:

don't want to delay any longer. We want to get you into the

Jamie:

interview that we have this week. The amazing ZombaeKillz

Jamie:

came and chatted with us. And Spencer and I were just

Jamie:

completely enamored with her. She's, I just felt myself

Jamie:

feeling the whole time we're having this conversation like, I

Jamie:

wanted to stop recording, get up and go out and like, do

Jamie:

something she is - she's so inspirational. She's just - the

Jamie:

way she talks about games and the way she thinks of games and

Jamie:

the way she thinks about community organizing. And the

Jamie:

way she kind of knits all that together was really, really

Jamie:

powerful stuff that I felt very moved by. And she kind of made

Jamie:

me want to go play ARK Survival Evolved, which I'm not a

Jamie:

survival game person at all. And I'm sorry, Zombae, I probably

Jamie:

won't go play it because I don't know that I have the time

Jamie:

investment for 30 days of raising a dinosaur. But I did

Jamie:

almost want to go play it.

Spencer:

Yeah, like you said, I mean, we had just met, we just

Spencer:

met Zombae during this interview call, but in that as soon as I

Spencer:

started talking to her, I felt like she was someone that I had

Spencer:

been friends with for a while, like, we were really able to

Spencer:

like the many different ways she thinks about games that the way

Spencer:

that she applies her love of games, to how she thinks about

Spencer:

parenting, how she thinks about community is just really, really

Spencer:

awesome. And I think exactly what the time is the kind of

Spencer:

ideas that we want to celebrate on this podcast. And you know,

Spencer:

before she got into streaming Zombae had a long, continuing

Spencer:

career as a community jail reform activist right in her

Spencer:

home of Mississippi, she'll talk about that too. And I just think

Spencer:

that this is an awesome first episode that I'm very excited to

Spencer:

share.

Jamie:

Super excited. So without further ado, here's our

Jamie:

interview with ZombaeKillz.

Spencer Icasiano:

ZombaeKillz, Thank you so much for joining us

Spencer Icasiano:

in the virtual Pixel Therapy studio. Zombae, do you want to

Spencer Icasiano:

maybe introduce yourself?

ZombaeKillz:

Hey, guys, I'm ZombaeKillz. I am a local big,

ZombaeKillz:

fat black chaotic content creator. I'm also an activist

ZombaeKillz:

and a mama. I primarily focus on creating content around whatever

ZombaeKillz:

I'm feeling at the moment and being transparent, which is like

ZombaeKillz:

a new approach, I guess, to streaming because, you know,

ZombaeKillz:

it's a very manufactured and but well, the internet's just

ZombaeKillz:

manufactured in general. But uh, yeah, I tried to make content

ZombaeKillz:

about things that I feel like are important and touch on

ZombaeKillz:

important issues. Maybe it's parenting one day and, you know,

ZombaeKillz:

breaking cycles of abuse or, you know, trying to de-train

ZombaeKillz:

ourselves from ways of thought that are incredibly ineffective.

ZombaeKillz:

Or maybe it's prison reform. Or maybe it's talking about, you

ZombaeKillz:

know, your vagina, who knows, whatever you feel like talking

ZombaeKillz:

about in my chat, we could talk about, and you know, maybe we'll

ZombaeKillz:

play some games at a C+ level. So that's pretty much me though.

Spencer:

That's awesome. And I love to hear you say that, like,

Spencer:

part of the reason this podcast exists. I mean, most of the

Spencer:

reason this podcast exists is because - so Jamie and I have

Spencer:

been playing games for a long, long time. And it's something

Spencer:

that we've like, our, our friendship is built on

Spencer:

discussing games together and things we like and our hobbies.

Spencer:

And, but we rarely see ourselves reflected in the media community

Spencer:

surrounding gaming. I'm a trans person. I'm a Filipino x person,

Spencer:

mixed race. And

ZombaeKillz:

I'm Filipino too. Did you know that?

Spencer:

No!

ZombaeKillz:

Yeah. I'm not - my dad's Black and Filipino. And my

ZombaeKillz:

mom's a white Irish woman. So yeah,

Spencer:

Okay. I Oh, my God, I'm half Filipino, half Irish -

Spencer:

What? Oh my god we got kababayan [Tagalog for "fellow Filipino"]

Spencer:

action up in here. Okay. Love it. Okay, amazing. Well, so, you

Spencer:

know, we just we want to hear from people who, you know, we

Spencer:

can share we can relate to share experiences with. And, you know,

Spencer:

I don't necessarily identify as a gamer, but I love games. And

Spencer:

so I'd love to hear from you. Like, what's your history with

Spencer:

video games?

ZombaeKillz:

I've been playing video games. As far as I can

ZombaeKillz:

remember. Um, I started out on Atari, just in case you were

ZombaeKillz:

wondering how incredibly old I am. I started on Atari. You

ZombaeKillz:

know, I played Pong. I did. I played so many games. But

ZombaeKillz:

BurgerTime was like my first big game that I played that I loved.

ZombaeKillz:

That made me I guess a gamer. And games have just been this

ZombaeKillz:

thing. My parents loved playing games with me growing up. So

ZombaeKillz:

that was really cool. You know, because not everybody has

ZombaeKillz:

parents that game with them. Like, and my parents were young

ZombaeKillz:

enough and cool enough that playing games was just part of

ZombaeKillz:

our life and part of our culture. And then I was always

ZombaeKillz:

kind of a tomboy, you know, I guess, which I don't know if I

ZombaeKillz:

like the term tomboy so much. Because it's, it's a little

ZombaeKillz:

problematic. But you know, I'm a child of the 80s. So we're just

ZombaeKillz:

gonna go with that. But yeah, I was, I was always very, like,

ZombaeKillz:

all my friends were all males. And so I always wanted to hang

ZombaeKillz:

around them and play video games and in the 80s you know, they

ZombaeKillz:

were really enforcing the girls play with dolls and boys play

ZombaeKillz:

video games. I'm sure you guys know that the 80s were trash.

ZombaeKillz:

Um, so pretty much at that point. Like everything I did was

ZombaeKillz:

considered male-oriented. I, you know, wrote a skateboard. I

ZombaeKillz:

played video games. I watched Ninja Turtles and Ghostbusters

ZombaeKillz:

and asked for those toys growing up. And I also did pageants. So

ZombaeKillz:

it was a very weird dichotomy. I was a pageant kid. Little Miss

ZombaeKillz:

Maryland 1989.

Spencer:

Oh,

ZombaeKillz:

but yeah, you know, so

Spencer:

What was your talent?

ZombaeKillz:

My talent was dance. I did Janet Jackson and

ZombaeKillz:

Paula Abdul, you know, Opposites Attract. And yeah, it's like,

ZombaeKillz:

y'all, it was embarrassing. But, you know, that was like my life.

ZombaeKillz:

And gaming was just such a big part of like my community

ZombaeKillz:

experience and how I bonded with people and formed bonds like so.

ZombaeKillz:

I think as I got older, that became how I made friends. And

ZombaeKillz:

now it's such a cool thing because I mean, the internet

ZombaeKillz:

makes you able to, I mean, you have this global reach of

ZombaeKillz:

friendship now that's incredible. We don't have to be

ZombaeKillz:

in the same room next to each other and you can find the love

ZombaeKillz:

of your life on the internet while playing a game. Your next

ZombaeKillz:

best friend while playing a game or I mean, it's it's wild,

ZombaeKillz:

right? Like I'm a kid of the 80s. So I've seen it go from, in

ZombaeKillz:

such a small amount of time playing video games with my

ZombaeKillz:

partner. Yeah, playing video games with my pop to now, having

ZombaeKillz:

people in Malaysia reach out to me about launching a game for

ZombaeKillz:

them on the internet like, y'all it's just wild.

Spencer:

I mean, I just saw you streaming Samurai Jack for

Spencer:

Cartoon Network. I mean, yeah, it's all over the place.

ZombaeKillz:

It's so great. Also that's a really good game.

Spencer:

Oh, man, I yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking forward to

Spencer:

that I'm playing Ghost of Tsushima. Right now, so once I

Spencer:

get through that, that's my next, the next, next title. So

Spencer:

Zombae, you had just spoken on community, and that being a

Spencer:

really important part of why you game. And recently, you appeared

Spencer:

on the A Lesson in Blackness reunion episode of Spawn On Me.

Spencer:

And something you said that really stood out to me was, um,

Spencer:

you said, "If I can focus on what's important to me and my

Spencer:

community, that's what I'm going to do." And I was wondering if

Spencer:

you could speak a bit more about the relationship between your

Spencer:

community values and what you bring to streaming.

ZombaeKillz:

So community was something when I first started

ZombaeKillz:

streaming, I didn't have a big grasp on what it meant in the

ZombaeKillz:

streaming world versus what it meant in my life. Because

ZombaeKillz:

community is something that's important to me in my life as a

ZombaeKillz:

Person of Color, as a Black woman, especially living in the

ZombaeKillz:

South, finding my community has been a safe spot in my

ZombaeKillz:

existence. It's the very thing that has helped me thrive in

ZombaeKillz:

such an oppressive environment, right? And when I came into

ZombaeKillz:

streaming, I kind of thought community was all about like a

ZombaeKillz:

bunch of people that wanted to watch you play games, like maybe

ZombaeKillz:

they hung out with you because they found you moderately

ZombaeKillz:

attractive, and were weirdos. You know, there's a lot of that

ZombaeKillz:

- there is a lot of - but what I wanted to do was make a

ZombaeKillz:

community of people that were able to see themselves reflected

ZombaeKillz:

in the community, because that is so hard in streaming. Seeing

ZombaeKillz:

big, fat, Black people that are happy to be fat and happy to

ZombaeKillz:

love themselves, seeing the trans people in my community,

ZombaeKillz:

like my best friend, Pikachulian, who is a great

ZombaeKillz:

trans streamer who I love so much. Um like, seeing, you know,

ZombaeKillz:

people that are you know, they're non binary that are in

ZombaeKillz:

my community, seeing people that are just, you know, thriving and

ZombaeKillz:

being their best selves, is what I've fostered and I've created.

ZombaeKillz:

I've created a community where people can come in, and they see

ZombaeKillz:

themselves somewhere in my community. It's hard to do in

ZombaeKillz:

gaming because I'm in like, 75 Discords, so I'm just gonna be

ZombaeKillz:

real with you guys, right? And in those 75 Discords I don't see

ZombaeKillz:

myself in almost any of them. Most of them are these weird

ZombaeKillz:

echo chambers of White cis maleness, um, or you know,

ZombaeKillz:

there's some White women in there but the Black Girl Gamers

ZombaeKillz:

Discord is probably the only place I've ever felt like I saw

ZombaeKillz:

myself and have been able to feel safe in but my Discord

ZombaeKillz:

recommend, like, I don't know, I see a rainbow of myself. I see

ZombaeKillz:

myself through this like prismatic lens in my Discord,

ZombaeKillz:

and it's made me feel really happy and safe and comforted. I

ZombaeKillz:

can go in there. My friend died yesterday, so I lost a friend of

ZombaeKillz:

mine. So I was going through a huge - it was a very sudden

ZombaeKillz:

accident so I was going through a huge wave of grief yesterday

ZombaeKillz:

and I've had a lot of loss in my life so I cope better than most

ZombaeKillz:

people. It's unfortunate, but I also have a really good

ZombaeKillz:

therapist. Thank god shout out to my therapist - you're lit,

ZombaeKillz:

Jen.

Spencer:

Therapy 2020, people

ZombaeKillz:

Yeah, please God fix yourselves. We can all start

ZombaeKillz:

to heal a little bit um, but I was able to go on my Discord and

ZombaeKillz:

be like guys, I'm lost. You know, I'm lost. I'm upset. She

ZombaeKillz:

was 23 years old. 23 years old, you know? Um I could go in there

ZombaeKillz:

and cry. Yeah, I can go in my Discord and literally get on a

ZombaeKillz:

Discord call and cry and people will get in there. We have

ZombaeKillz:

somebody in our Discord who is realizing that they are a trans

ZombaeKillz:

person. And they are trying to walk through that right now. And

ZombaeKillz:

I was so happy to see another trans person on my Discord, pull

ZombaeKillz:

them under their wing and say, "Hey, do you want to talk about

ZombaeKillz:

this? Or are you having these feelings and these thoughts?

ZombaeKillz:

Like, do you need to like discuss moving you know, forward

ZombaeKillz:

with this and how do you feel comfortable? And do you need

ZombaeKillz:

information?" Same with people who needed therapy in my

ZombaeKillz:

Discord. There's somebody my discord who's been having

ZombaeKillz:

serious issues with family, and they were like, "Hey, what do

ZombaeKillz:

you guys think about therapy?" And I was like, "Oh, baby, let

ZombaeKillz:

me tell you. Therapy is great. Let's go." And I love that

ZombaeKillz:

people feel safe enough to be that vulnerable in my space. And

ZombaeKillz:

I will protect that space with my life and that's the community

ZombaeKillz:

I want to build not just in my Discord but in my viewership. I

ZombaeKillz:

want when you come into my chat to feel like you just walked

ZombaeKillz:

into a room of your best friends and we could just talk about

ZombaeKillz:

whatever, because so many streamers have like a whole

ZombaeKillz:

bunch of rules, right that are super shitty and coded heavily

ZombaeKillz:

for protecting Whiteness.

Spencer:

Yes.

ZombaeKillz:

I'm just gonna be real - you're shitty. Hey, big

ZombaeKillz:

streamers who say no politics, fuck you.

Spencer:

Yeah, what does that mean?

ZombaeKillz:

What's that mean? Oh, it means, you know, it means

ZombaeKillz:

you don't want to talk about my Blackness, it means you don't

ZombaeKillz:

want to talk about my friends. transness, it means you don't

ZombaeKillz:

want to talk about my bisexuality, it means you don't

ZombaeKillz:

want to talk - Your streams are not safe spaces. You're just

ZombaeKillz:

labeling yourselves as big old, not safe spaces. It's like a

ZombaeKillz:

danger zone when I see that stuff. And yeah, yeah, no, no,

ZombaeKillz:

go.

Spencer:

No, I just think it's also so clear that people who

Spencer:

say "no politics" are also people who think of politics as

Spencer:

something that they can opt in and opt out of. It's not

ZombaeKillz:

it's fantastic levels of privilege.

Spencer:

Mm hmm.

ZombaeKillz:

It's like, "Hey, I'm super privileged! Check me

ZombaeKillz:

out!" Like I'm just living through - I'm be-bopping through

ZombaeKillz:

life super privileged, also, please donate to me to my

ZombaeKillz:

already privileged, uninformed life. And people be buying it. I

ZombaeKillz:

mean, there are huge streamers. And people keep supporting them,

ZombaeKillz:

y'all. I don't know if there's anything we could do in 2020 is

ZombaeKillz:

defund asshole streamers. I would love it. Let's defund and

ZombaeKillz:

de-platform these idiots that think they can opt out of

ZombaeKillz:

politics?

Spencer:

Yes, on every platform.

ZombaeKillz:

On every platform, but in streaming in particular,

ZombaeKillz:

because this is the space I'm in the most right now. Defund cis,

ZombaeKillz:

White streamers.

Spencer:

Yes, yes.

ZombaeKillz:

That aren't doing the work of allyship. If they're

ZombaeKillz:

allies, let's give them a little money. Let's help 'em out, you

ZombaeKillz:

know, boop 'em on the nose for doing a good job. But yeah, I

ZombaeKillz:

think that, I just want to foster the most strong and safe

ZombaeKillz:

community I can. And I and I want to empower my community, I

ZombaeKillz:

want them to wield our community like as a, as a shield from the

ZombaeKillz:

shittiness of this world right now. We live in a world where my

ZombaeKillz:

very existence is a threat. My very existence is being

ZombaeKillz:

exterminated. My very existence is political. And that's really

ZombaeKillz:

sad.

Spencer:

Right.

ZombaeKillz:

And if somebody can slide into my stream, and feel

ZombaeKillz:

like they matter, their life matters. Then I'm doing the

ZombaeKillz:

right thing. And I'm changing my little corner of the world. It

ZombaeKillz:

doesn't have to be big. I don't care if there's one person in my

ZombaeKillz:

chat or there's 200 people in my chat. I want to continue to, to

ZombaeKillz:

grow a community of people that feel loved, whether we're

ZombaeKillz:

talking about the dumb stuff, the fluff, as I call it, the

ZombaeKillz:

fluff, or whether we're talking about the super serious issues,

ZombaeKillz:

and I bounce back and forth. I mean, I'm, I'm a human, I'm

ZombaeKillz:

dichotomous like I can talk about the dumbest and fluffiest

ZombaeKillz:

of things. But I also add a lot of levity to a lot of situations

ZombaeKillz:

that people normally don't find themselves adding levity to.

Spencer:

Mm hmm. I mean, I think that that comes from like as you

Spencer:

mentioned earlier, you know, as marginalized people, um, we have

Spencer:

to develop like a thick skin, we have to be able to take the

Spencer:

grief that's handed to us and move through it and move past

Spencer:

it. And I think that it's incredible that as someone who

Spencer:

has experienced a lot of loss and grief and pain in your life

Spencer:

that you're able to, you know, protect others, protect younger

Spencer:

people, protect people who don't have support systems from having

Spencer:

to go through the same thing. I think games are a place where I

Spencer:

know that I've gone to be safe to be alone to to escape from

Spencer:

what was going on in my life, and be in a place where I was

Spencer:

not treated like an alien or like a monster just for

Spencer:

existing. I mean, maybe I was an alien or a monster, but everyone

Spencer:

loved that about me.

ZombaeKillz:

Yeah, be a beautiful alien. Aliens are

ZombaeKillz:

dope.

Spencer:

You mentioned a bit how your own parents game with you.

Spencer:

Does your love of gaming influence your parenting style

Spencer:

with your own kids?

ZombaeKillz:

Heck yeah, my kids are big old gamers. My 11 year

ZombaeKillz:

old is a Minecraft and fortnight junkie right now. She is like

ZombaeKillz:

the most incredible little architect in Minecraft. She and

ZombaeKillz:

her cousins. my nieces and nephews, have their own realm

ZombaeKillz:

and a couple of my streamer friends kids are also in there.

ZombaeKillz:

So it's like a little protected, like online virtual playground

ZombaeKillz:

for them and she's currently working on a cherry blossom

ZombaeKillz:

tree. But she loves building and it's so cool to just see her her

ZombaeKillz:

takes on things and where she goes. Like my games don't really

ZombaeKillz:

influence her games, but my gaming influences her to feel

ZombaeKillz:

comfortable. And I've seen her come out of her shell because

ZombaeKillz:

two years ago, my kid was super shy, like super, super shy, and

ZombaeKillz:

she wasn't gaming. She didn't have an Xbox yet. And, um, she

ZombaeKillz:

just everything was like, she was super quiet and she didn't

ZombaeKillz:

want to talk so. And then she got an Xbox and started talking

ZombaeKillz:

to some people. And now she's like, Hey, guys. And she's this

ZombaeKillz:

whole, like, She's out of her shell. And she recently came out

ZombaeKillz:

to me, which was like this big thing. And it was on the front

ZombaeKillz:

page of Twitch. I don't know if you saw that we did that.

Spencer:

Oh, that's cool.

ZombaeKillz:

Yeah, for parents day. But we talked about her

ZombaeKillz:

coming out story, because there was a kid in my chat that came

ZombaeKillz:

in and said, I'm thinking about coming out to my parents. What

ZombaeKillz:

would you say if your kid came to you? And I said, Phoenix,

ZombaeKillz:

let's talk about it. And she was like, okay, and I said Phoenix,

ZombaeKillz:

What did I say? When you come out to me? She's like, I said

ZombaeKillz:

that you love me no matter what, and that you're happy and that

ZombaeKillz:

you love me and whatever I want to do you love me, regardless.

ZombaeKillz:

And I was like, Yeah, so, you know, sometimes your parents

ZombaeKillz:

might not do that. And, and that's okay, too. No matter what

ZombaeKillz:

you're valid like you are valid and you are loved somewhere even

ZombaeKillz:

if your parents are assholes. That's their loss. You know,

ZombaeKillz:

like, and so I find gaming to be this way I get to, I don't know.

ZombaeKillz:

I yeah, my parenting gets to come out and my five year old

ZombaeKillz:

son, Minecraft junkie. my four year old daughter, she just

ZombaeKillz:

turned four. Hello Neighbor addict. So yeah, and she likes

ZombaeKillz:

spooky stuff. I know. She likes spooky stuff. So she loves being

ZombaeKillz:

scared. And I'm like, bro, you're four. But she loves being

ZombaeKillz:

scared. Like Fallon. And she's very precocious. But Fallon she

ZombaeKillz:

loves like being terrified and pretending to be scared and like

ZombaeKillz:

she's hyper intelligent and which is it's tough. That's

ZombaeKillz:

tough. Having a really smart kid y'all [laughs] genius.

Jamie:

She's playing hello neighbor at four. I feel like I

Jamie:

can't even wrap my head around that game.

ZombaeKillz:

My kids love hello neighbor. They love Bendy and

ZombaeKillz:

the Ink Machine.

Jamie:

That's awesome

ZombaeKillz:

games I never would have played but yeah, Fallon is

ZombaeKillz:

big on Hello Neighbor on the Switch right now. So yeah, we

ZombaeKillz:

and my husband's a huge gamer. You know, he does deep machine

ZombaeKillz:

learning and AI programming. So he's like a huge nerd. He plays

ZombaeKillz:

Final Fantasy 14. I think is his main game and Star Citizen. So

ZombaeKillz:

like super nerd super nerd games. But yeah, you know, we're

ZombaeKillz:

just a gaming family. And it's something that we like doing.

ZombaeKillz:

And we like, tabletop games, a lot like board games. We,, our

ZombaeKillz:

board game collections...

Spencer:

I mean, Jamie has a wooden version of Settlers of

Spencer:

Catan. So yeah,

ZombaeKillz:

I have a wooden, I have a wooden monopoly. Like,

ZombaeKillz:

I'm there. I got it from Target. I was really excited about it.

ZombaeKillz:

Yeah. Yeah, I think gaming with my kids is it also just helps us

ZombaeKillz:

or even just them playing has developed their intelligence. So

ZombaeKillz:

much. My son had a very gross fine motor delay with his

ZombaeKillz:

sensory processing disorder. And working the controllers and

ZombaeKillz:

stuff for Finley has taught him so much more control. And also

ZombaeKillz:

sensory processing. He's what they call seeker. So he seeks

ZombaeKillz:

like physical input and stimulation constantly. 24

ZombaeKillz:

seven, and it presents very much like severe ADHD, pewpewpewpew

ZombaeKillz:

and video games, schoop

Spencer:

Mm hmm.

ZombaeKillz:

And he's in it, and he's able to focus. So the

ZombaeKillz:

cathartic levels of what video games have done for my family is

ZombaeKillz:

pretty great, too.

Spencer:

That's awesome. That's incredible. Um, you know,

Spencer:

speaking of like, the family coming together gaming,

Spencer:

streaming, like, you haven't been streaming for that long.

Spencer:

It's only been a couple years, right.

Jamie:

One year,

Spencer:

One year. Oh, my goodness, one year. So how did

Spencer:

you get into scream Ah, screaming How did you get into

Spencer:

streaming? And what's what's the story there?

ZombaeKillz:

So I started out a couple years ago, and I tried to

ZombaeKillz:

shoot my shot at streaming. And then I was diagnosed with

ZombaeKillz:

uterine cancer, and got very, very sick very, very fast. I

ZombaeKillz:

have lupus. And it became emergent that I needed to have a

ZombaeKillz:

hysterectomy and a whole bunch of other things. Immediately, I

ZombaeKillz:

found out and within three days, that's how fast it was. It was

ZombaeKillz:

like, three days later, you know, I was going through a lot

ZombaeKillz:

of health issues. And so I kind of stopped streaming for a

ZombaeKillz:

little bit because I had to basically take a year of getting

ZombaeKillz:

my life back together to where I wasn't in pain and stuff. But as

ZombaeKillz:

I was going through my recovery, I was feeling very isolated.

ZombaeKillz:

Pain was just starting to be the thing that I focused on daily,

ZombaeKillz:

and I wasn't able to get out of my head with pain, and I don't

ZombaeKillz:

like pain medication. So It just affects me really badly,

ZombaeKillz:

unfortunately. So I just couldn't do anything but like

ZombaeKillz:

lay in bed and focus on pain. Well, I started playing games

ZombaeKillz:

more and more and more. And I started realizing that gaming

ZombaeKillz:

was cognitive behavioral therapy for me, gaming was helping me

ZombaeKillz:

deal with my anxiety. And it was making me focus on something

ZombaeKillz:

other than pain, which was allowing me cognitively to like,

ZombaeKillz:

train myself to when I was gaming not be focused on pain.

ZombaeKillz:

So I was feeling less pain, as my therapist put it um.

Spencer:

Wow.

ZombaeKillz:

And so I started to realize like this was helping

ZombaeKillz:

me. And not only that, like depression was lifting like, I

ZombaeKillz:

was not feeling suicidal, I was not feeling stressed out, I was

ZombaeKillz:

not feeling like I was impossibly crushed under the

ZombaeKillz:

weight of my physical limitations. And so I decided I

ZombaeKillz:

was gonna start going live on mixer because I started over on

ZombaeKillz:

mixer a year ago, I started pushing that button, and just

ZombaeKillz:

going live and just talking to people. And I started to realize

ZombaeKillz:

that I was making friends, like real genuine friends who cared

ZombaeKillz:

about me and checked on me, because when you're sick, like I

ZombaeKillz:

am chronically sick with lupus, people don't care, to hear about

ZombaeKillz:

your sickness all the time. Sometimes it can be a lot for

ZombaeKillz:

people, which is fine, they have an option to opt out, but we

ZombaeKillz:

don't, and talking about my pain, or my disability is valid.

ZombaeKillz:

And I found communities of people who cared about it. And I

ZombaeKillz:

found communities of people who were doing the same thing who

ZombaeKillz:

were chronically sick, or who were ill, or who were disabled,

ZombaeKillz:

who were also gaming. And I was like, dang, and and I would have

ZombaeKillz:

these conversations with people about things like race, because

ZombaeKillz:

it would come up, obviously, because I'm black, or they'd say

ZombaeKillz:

something racist, and I was able to talk to 'em. I'm like, bro,

ZombaeKillz:

you know, you just said the N word. You do realize, like I'm

ZombaeKillz:

black? No, I didn't know you're black. And it's like, yeah. And

ZombaeKillz:

I started realizing that these conversations I was able to have

ZombaeKillz:

and changing minds and talking about tough stuff like prison,

ZombaeKillz:

because people are like, Oh, yeah, I hope they kill him in

ZombaeKillz:

jail, blah, blah, blah. But I was able to, like find these

ZombaeKillz:

conversations and realize, these people probably never been

ZombaeKillz:

exposed to someone like me in their life. Not that they were

ZombaeKillz:

terrible people, but they were terribly ignorant, or

ZombaeKillz:

uneducated, and I had a chance to talk to them. And I have

ZombaeKillz:

changed many hearts through playing video games. And I

ZombaeKillz:

started to realize that this was kind of what I wanted to start

ZombaeKillz:

doing. And then I started to realize about talking about

ZombaeKillz:

looking at streamers, and I wasn't seeing myself reflected,

ZombaeKillz:

I wasn't seeing fat black women at the top who are body

ZombaeKillz:

positive, and, you know, doing that stuff. And I was like,

ZombaeKillz:

Damn, like, where's where's me? You know, like, and so I said,

ZombaeKillz:

Well, I guess I'm going to be me. And I want Phoenix to look

ZombaeKillz:

who's my daughter, I want Phoenix to look and be like,

ZombaeKillz:

hey, there's me. Um, and my kids started looking up like, black

ZombaeKillz:

people playing Minecraft, or black people playing this and

ZombaeKillz:

she couldn't find anybody. We eventually found a black

ZombaeKillz:

minecrafter which was cool. Um, but like, it was a dig.

Spencer:

Right

ZombaeKillz:

It was a very deep dig. And I guess that just kind

ZombaeKillz:

of fuel my fire to, to start doing this and start putting

ZombaeKillz:

myself out there. And the more that I started putting myself

ZombaeKillz:

out there, I realized that there weren't people putting

ZombaeKillz:

themselves out there as much as I was there aren't people

ZombaeKillz:

talking about their pain, their sadness, their joy, their

ZombaeKillz:

traumatic life experiences, their race? what they're feeling

ZombaeKillz:

like while they're gaming? Yeah, it just wasn't a thing that I

ZombaeKillz:

saw anywhere. And so I'm just kinda out here winging it. And I

ZombaeKillz:

don't know, I just found a love that I did not know. And I am

ZombaeKillz:

technologically deficient. So it's definitely been a journey

ZombaeKillz:

for me making these productions from home, but as long as I can

ZombaeKillz:

keep going, I feel like this is where I want to be.

Spencer:

That's incredible. I mean, like, it's so true like,

Spencer:

just because these sources, like when you saying trying to find

Spencer:

black streamers who are playing Minecraft, like, it's not like

Spencer:

there aren't black folks out there playing Minecraft. It's

Spencer:

just that the people who get the most attention are the people

Spencer:

whose voices get uplifted. I think it can be very easy to see

Spencer:

the gaming community as this monolith of like cis white

Spencer:

maleness, and I think that it's the space you're carving out is

Spencer:

just just awesome.

ZombaeKillz:

I'm trying I I want it you know, I think somebody

ZombaeKillz:

said it to me the other day like, you know, and I and I've

ZombaeKillz:

kind of compared this before on other podcasts but like, I'm

ZombaeKillz:

looking at these people me and me and CeddyOrNot talked about

ZombaeKillz:

this. I don't know if you know CeddyOrNot but hysterical if

ZombaeKillz:

you're not following Ceddyornot on Twitter, guys, you are

ZombaeKillz:

missing out on great greatness. Okay, um, but Ceddy had me on

ZombaeKillz:

his very controversial podcast and we talked about the reality

ZombaeKillz:

of these things is, I don't want to be like anybody else in the

ZombaeKillz:

streaming. I got nobody to look up to. I got pockets that I look

ZombaeKillz:

up to. I got money that I want to, I want to get to that level

ZombaeKillz:

of financial stability and success. But as far as a

ZombaeKillz:

physicality, or a genre of streamer, I don't got it. So I'm

ZombaeKillz:

just literally out here being like, I guess this is fitting to

ZombaeKillz:

be me.

Spencer:

Yeah.

ZombaeKillz:

And hopefully, I'm encouraging other people who

ZombaeKillz:

don't have someone to look at to, to kick down the doors, you

ZombaeKillz:

know, lube up and slide through a window, baby, like whatever

ZombaeKillz:

you got to do, you know, whatever you got to do to get in

ZombaeKillz:

and make your space, take it, take that space, take up space,

ZombaeKillz:

take it up every chance you get. And I want to encourage people

ZombaeKillz:

that you might not see you, and that might feel really

ZombaeKillz:

discouraging. And it does, there are days where I'm like, dang,

ZombaeKillz:

do I want to fight. And then I remember, there ain't nobody

ZombaeKillz:

like me, baby. And there's other people sitting there looking for

ZombaeKillz:

somebody. And if they can see my big old self, and they can see

ZombaeKillz:

me and hear me, then I might encourage them to push a little

ZombaeKillz:

bit further. And you might be the next person to encourage

ZombaeKillz:

someone to push a little bit further. And you might be able

ZombaeKillz:

to reach back and help someone else. So don't give up. Don't

ZombaeKillz:

give up. I know that whiteness is overwhelming. It's

ZombaeKillz:

overwhelming in every day of our life. It's overwhelming in the

ZombaeKillz:

media that we consume. It's overwhelming in our communities

ZombaeKillz:

that we live in. It's overwhelming in our justice

ZombaeKillz:

system it's overwhelming in ou healthcare system. whiteness i

ZombaeKillz:

so overwhelming and scary. An baby, we can still take u

ZombaeKillz:

space, our own space, dismantl white supremacy every chance yo

ZombaeKillz:

get. Baby, I pour a little s gar in white supremacy's gas

ZombaeKillz:

tank every

Spencer:

Yes, yes. Thank you Zombae. And yeah, I think you're

Spencer:

exactly right. Like, we have to dismantle we have to abolish the

Spencer:

white supremacists in our own minds, the one that speaks

Spencer:

inside of us telling us, you know,

ZombaeKillz:

it's crazy that they have hijacked our internal

ZombaeKillz:

monologues.

Spencer:

Mm hmm.

ZombaeKillz:

That is wild to me. Yeah. Why that we have allowed

ZombaeKillz:

them to hijack our internal monologue.

Spencer:

It's coded to

ZombaeKillz:

People don't even talk about that.

Spencer:

Mm hmm. Yes.

ZombaeKillz:

They've hijacked our internal voices. When you

ZombaeKillz:

look at your party and you feel like oof, blah, blah, blah.

ZombaeKillz:

That's the white voice. It really is. That white voice is

ZombaeKillz:

what told you that. When you go, I wish that my hair wasn't so

ZombaeKillz:

curly.

Spencer:

Why? Yeah,

ZombaeKillz:

Curly hairs fucking lit. Like, why is curly hair

ZombaeKillz:

considered unmanageable?

Spencer:

Mm hmm.

ZombaeKillz:

Why is white good and black bad? Baby they have

ZombaeKillz:

hijacked every part of our beings.

Spencer:

Yes.

ZombaeKillz:

On a cellular epigenetic level, they have

ZombaeKillz:

traumatized us. It's now encoded into our genetics. No, sugar in

ZombaeKillz:

the gas tank everyday, burn it all down. Molotov cocktail that

ZombaeKillz:

shit out of your life. And we got to continue to do this. We

ZombaeKillz:

got to continue to be loud take up space and not let them win.

Spencer:

That's right. That's right.

Jamie:

Yeah. I mean, I was thinking even you talking about

Jamie:

how there are as many folks in even the gaming space, or, I

Jamie:

think in general, just showcasing pain and

Jamie:

vulnerability and sadness and like just being honest in that

Jamie:

way. And that That, to me is white supremacy culture, this

Jamie:

idea that we have to be perfect that we can't show our flaws

Jamie:

that we can't be vulnerable,

ZombaeKillz:

That's how they're able to take over and colonize.

ZombaeKillz:

They don't show empathy. They don't show weakness. They're

ZombaeKillz:

able to colonize because they operate in inhuman ways.

Jamie:

Yep. It's dehumanizing is exactly what it

Jamie:

It's gross. It's gross. And so I'm gonna try to just be a

Jamie:

little humanized on your timeline. If you see me, and I

Jamie:

know like, a lot of brands aren't gonna aren't gonna love

Jamie:

me, right? Like, I am not gonna get the giant sponsorship from,

Jamie:

you know, whoever. Because white supremacy is so prevalent, they

Jamie:

don't see financial gain. From my being and Baby, I'm

Jamie:

priceless. Hmm. They couldn't afford me if they wanted to. I

Jamie:

got Logitech. They love my voice. They support my voice in

Jamie:

ways y'all can't even imagine when we talk about white

Jamie:

supremacy in our Logitech meetings,

Spencer:

Oh, that's, I love to hear that.

Jamie:

That's awesome. Yeah,

ZombaeKillz:

Do you know we had like a little mixer and they

ZombaeKillz:

were all we were all talking about things and, you know,

ZombaeKillz:

activism and they were just nodding and happy in agreement.

ZombaeKillz:

An Asian man is on the Logitech partnerships management team.

ZombaeKillz:

You know, I there's disability, people with disabilities, trans

ZombaeKillz:

people in my group, black people, white people, I mean,

ZombaeKillz:

anything you could think of blind gamers, you know, like,

ZombaeKillz:

completely disabled gamers, you know, I mean, we have everything

ZombaeKillz:

in that Logitech sponsorship group. When I'm in that room, I

ZombaeKillz:

feel like I am in like, a diversity pamphlet it is like

ZombaeKillz:

woah okay. Okay.

Spencer:

I mean, a lot of companies talk about diversity

Spencer:

as if it's a special issue or something to be resolved in your

Spencer:

spare time. But like, you have to integrate like, like

Spencer:

dismantling white supremacy involves changing, like we said,

Spencer:

the way you think the way you interact, the way you intake

Spencer:

everything around you, and question everything around you.

Spencer:

And you can't do that. Unless you're, you're immersing

Spencer:

yourself in that work every single day. So I'm happy to hear

Spencer:

that Logitech has been doing that.

ZombaeKillz:

Logitech's doing it. So if you're spending your

ZombaeKillz:

money, spend your money with somebody who really does walk

ZombaeKillz:

the walk, I have realized in this space, there are a lot of

ZombaeKillz:

companies that will use diversity as a way to garner

ZombaeKillz:

consumers into spending money, and fuck that it's shitty. I'm

ZombaeKillz:

just gonna say it's shitty. It's like rainbow consumerism ew

ZombaeKillz:

gross, gross Shame on you, during Black History Month,

ZombaeKillz:

during the BLM resurgence, as I like to call it, because this

ZombaeKillz:

has been going on forever, everybody, hate to break it to

ZombaeKillz:

y'all. Um, these companies reach out to us, we'll help you and

ZombaeKillz:

then they ghost they've ghosted, so many of my friends, or you

ZombaeKillz:

know, they've rejected them for partnerships, because we don't

ZombaeKillz:

have the same metrics as our white peers. Of course, we don't

ZombaeKillz:

have the same metrics, we make up point 05 percent of gaming.

ZombaeKillz:

Our metrics are gonna be point 05 numbers, you should

Spencer:

How do you get metrics without platforms like without

Spencer:

people lifting you up?

ZombaeKillz:

It's disgusting to me. That's why I a bunch of my

ZombaeKillz:

friends got rejected for a specific brand that I will not

ZombaeKillz:

name. Yesterday, it was all over Twitter, they encouraged all

Spencer:

Off the record.

Spencer:

these diverse people to apply and then rejected every single

Spencer:

one of them. And some of those people are fantastic. Some of

Spencer:

those people are so fantastic and doing work and are having

Spencer:

their names int triple A titles and doing crazy stuff. And that

Spencer:

brand rejected them. It's because that brand, doesn't give

Spencer:

a fuck about anything but numbers. And what they think

Spencer:

financial gain is going to be versus actually supporting and

Spencer:

uplifting, and proving that their brand cares. And showing

Spencer:

that people of color have access to their brand. I'll tell y'all

Spencer:

later, but I won't. I won't, I won't. I won't out 'em yet.

ZombaeKillz:

Also, they also pulled a sponsorship from a show

ZombaeKillz:

I was on because they didn't want me talking about rights

ZombaeKillz:

issues because it was too hot topic something

Spencer:

Too political? The P word?

ZombaeKillz:

You know, we hate th