On this episode we’re diving deep into the art of communication, chatting about how great communication isn’t just about tossing a bunch of words into the air like confetti; it’s about knowing when to zip it and really tune in. Podcast-whisperer Jennifer Lee Gunson spills the beans on why interviewing can be trickier than a cat on a hot tin roof, revealing that sometimes being over-prepared can block genuine connections. We also explore the nitty-gritty of podcasting as a business—spoiler alert: it’s a hustle, and chasing numbers is less important than finding your passion and purpose. So, if you’re itching to kickstart your own podcast or just wanting to become a better communicator, grab a cozy seat and listen in—this episode is packed with nuggets of wisdom that’ll have you saying, “Aha!” in no time!

Takeaways:

1. The art of communication is about listening just as much as it is about talking, so tune in!
2. Podcasting is a marathon, not a sprint, so love what you do to keep going when things get tough.
3. Engaging your audience means treating them as individuals, not just a faceless crowd, so connect one-on-one!
4. Becoming a great interviewer requires practice and a willingness to listen more than you speak, it's a skill to master!
5. Passion and purpose in your podcast are far more valuable than chasing numbers; let your love for the topic lead the way!

Links referenced in this episode:

1. ignitemyvoice.com

Companies mentioned in this episode:

1. Ignite Voice, Inc.
2. J Pod Creations
3. CBC
4. Helix
5. Juice Newton
6. Billy Bob Thornton
7. Jian Ghomeshi
8. Amy Poehler
9. Call Her Daddy
10. Kit Carson

Your voice is your superpower. Use it. Welcome to Ignite My Voice. Becoming Unstoppable, powered by Ignite Voice, Inc. The podcast where voice meets purpose and stories ignite change.

Deep conversations with amazing guests, storytellers, speakers and change makers.

If you're not passionate about what you're talking about, don't do a podcast because the there are gonna be days, and I'm sure you guys feel this too, that you're like, why are we doing this? It's so much work.

Our guest today is Jennifer Lee Gunson, entrepreneur, podcaster, and founder of J Pod Creations. Someone who knows firsthand that great communication isn't about filling the space with words.

It's about knowing when to stop talking and start listening. Jen shares why interviewing is one of the hardest skills to master. How being over prepared can actually block real connection.

And why people can always tell when you're not truly tuned in, even if you think you're asking all the right questions.

We dig into the reality of podcasting as a business, the hustle behind the scenes, why there's no silver bullet to.

Building an audience, and why passion and purpose matter far more than chasing download numbers or instant results.

So if you're thinking about starting a podcast, growing one, or simply becoming a.

Better communicator, this episode is packed with insights that will change how you listen and how you show up. Here's Jen.

I think what the mistake, I mean, what we teach in classic media is if you're interviewing somebody, it's great, but there's a third person always there, right? The listener or the viewer. And you always have to be aware that they're part of the conversation.

I think a lot of beginning podcasters see the person they're talking to and totally forget there's a listener or a viewer. And if you could put the third person in the room, like three friends, you would see the third person getting bored. It slaps you in the face, right?

You see that? Okay, they're tuning out. Oh, I gotta change the conversation or get their attention.

And one of the big mistakes in beginning podcasters is they don't realize they're trying to hold someone's attention. They're talking to involve someone else instead of themselves, where they just internally talk.

And I think that comes from the.

End and it never ends.

They're so nervous, they're so concentrating on what it is they're trying, trying to do and talking to the person and getting the information out that they've forgotten about their other friend in the room that's sitting there. Listening to the conversation.

You're right. They're worried about themselves. Thinking about themselves instead of who you're.

Talking to and being, you know.

Well, that was the other mistake. And this one goes onto that.

And this is the tool that I use from BCIT is the other mistake is people don't realize that they're actually only talking to one person. And this drives me nuts on podcasting because I feel like we're back in the old day radio where they're like, hey, hey, everybody.

Like, I'm doing an info commercial. And it's like, no, you're not talking to everybody. You're talking to one person. Because I'm in the car. I don't have a busload of people in my car.

And so I love the. I think this came from. Sorry, Kevin, again, one to one communication. And that's the thing is like, I remember you guys tried to trick us.

They're like, when you're on the radio, how many people are you talking to? And they're like, millions. And they're like, no, actually one person. And this can be used in podcasting. And I tell everyone to do it.

It's like, you're not talking to millions of people. Even if you have a podcast that has millions of people, you're still giving everyone individual attention.

Because if I'm driving the car, I'm walking the dog, I'm cooking dinner and I'm listening to you, I want to feel included as a listener. I want to go on that journey with you. I don't want to go on the journey with everybody else that you're talking to.

That's a damage of YouTube, isn't it? Just the classic YouTube.

Hey, everyone.

Bye, everyone.

Oh, please. Shooed me.

And it actually takes the pressure off when you stop thinking, thinking about the room as being filled and you just talk to one person, then you don't feel so uncomfortable or worried. You can just concentrate on the conversation. You know, it's not that hard.

Yeah, but not many people do it except for my clients because I make them.

Do they follow? I mean, they pick up what you're saying. They do believe in what you're saying.

They do.

And even people that I have co hosted with that maybe have not been from a radio background, they listen like, obviously I'm not perfect and everyone has someone. Well, no one is something different. And I'm not putting like, there's some amazing podcasters out there that aren't broadcast trained.

But again, it's an art and a skill that you have to Work at. And going back. I didn't finish.

The point on prepping is that with questions, probably my biggest pet peeve is when you're interviewing someone, you're not listening. And a lot of. Another mistake. People don't listen when they interview. And with podcasting, so many people want to do an interview format.

There's actually many other type of formats out there, too, and I don't.

I guess it's the sexy one, because everyone sees you interviewing celebs or other people, but interviewing is the hardest one, and it took me, like, a good 20 years to do it.

I remember, and I don't think I shared this story with you guys, but I. I remember when I worked up my first radio gig up north, and I was talking to somebody that was a Canadian celeb on the Rio, and they were my first one, and it was. I bummed. I bumped hard, and my boss said, I wanted to rip the microphone out of your hand.

Oh, no.

What did you do so bad?

I don't know. I feel like I was really prepped. Maybe that was the problem. I was too prepped because I wanted to make sure.

I was worried about being perfect.

Perfect.

You didn't listen. Maybe.

Maybe I didn't listen. The guy kind of had a bit of a chip on his shoulder, too, so that wasn't very typical. Yeah. And I didn't know what to do with it.

Now I know what to do with it.

What would you do? What would you do different?

Well, now I just feel like I naturally would do it better.

Like, it's hard to explain, like, because I've now interviewed many different celebs or people of note that I just feel like I have a better conversation with them. And that's the thing is, it's like, listening is such a huge part because how do you hear? And I've noticed this on so many podcasts.

So many people miss really good pieces of gold because they're not listening. And a lot of the time, the guest, whoever it is, doesn't matter if they're celebrity or not.

They will give you the answers you want, but you got to listen for them.

Yeah.

And then people will be like, well, they didn't answer my question. It's like, well, actually, they were giving you a hint down here.

Well, and there's so many stories embedded in all of the interviews, and everybody has a story. They don't have to be a celebrity or anything. There are stories there always. It's having a sense of listening for story. Right. What nuggets in There.

Oh, I'm curious, I'm curious about that story.

It's the number one skill in acting.

I'm on stage right now and I find that the better performances I have are when I listen, really listen to what the other actor's saying and the feelings come out and then you can, you can work with that. You know, when you're interviewing, that's the same thing.

You can work with that other person's energy and get underneath of that conversation of what they're saying based on the questions that you've already prepped.

So important, so important. And I come from a theater background. That's what I was training before I headed to bcit because I thought I was going to be an actor.

I did some acting stuff, but that's a thing that I took from it is you really do need to listen because how do you react if you're not listening? And that's why acting is reaction.

Well, how are you curious if you're worried or focused on yourself? You're not curious about the other person at all?

No. And you don't make them feel comfortable either.

Like the interviewee can tell when you just want to get it done and you just want to hit things for you and they don't want that. The reason that these people come on the show is they want you to talk about them. They don't want you to just quickly get it done so you can get.

Or you don't know anything. I always remember my Juice Newton story. Remember my Juice Newton story?

Yes.

Oh, come on, tell us that story.

I was in London, Ontario, was on the air and you know, around the loop of the, of the Great Lakes, Toronto and Hamilton and Chicago and everywhere. All around there you get famous people coming through all the time. Right.

Do you remember who Juice Newton is?

No.

So she was a one hit wonder, really. Pretty little thing that was huge at the time. And there wasn't a lot of information about her.

So I just went, well, whatever, I'll just ask basic questions.

Oh dear.

She sat there all nice and I started with something like, well, it's raining today. What do you think of the rain? I don't know, something stupid.

Right.

And I always remember this pretty little thing. She just lost it.

She just unleashed with anger for what felt like 30 minutes because she'd been from city to city with interviewers that weren't paying any attention and knew nothing about her. And I paid the price. They want to know that you know something about them and you care, right?

Yeah. I knew about this person But I feel like it's a very similar experience that I had.

They exploded. Yeah.

I think that maybe they were, you know, they were quite well known in the US And Canada. Maybe they, this is my theory. Maybe they were upset that they were traveling through Fort St. John doing a nightclub, not a stadium.

So again, I think that's important to note is whoever you're talking to, you got to realize people have bad days. It might have not been personally to you and I, like I said, like, we don't know what happened in their life earlier.

Oh, yeah.

But that's a big thing.

Another mistake when you're interviewing people is not taking the account that people are human and you don't know what's gone in their life to bring them to this point. So regardless if you're interviewing them on the podcast or radio, you should understand, like, where their career was and maybe be gentle with them.

Depending on who you're talking to or.

Don'T judge a book by its cover, they may not be what they look like. Because the next day I had a heavy metal band, Helix.

Oh, yeah, I know. See, I know Helix. I was on a rock station though.

So Helix came into my control room and I was terrified. I had just gone through that Juice Newton experience and these five big, huge leather bound monsters came in. I was gonna get killed.

And they were the sweetest guys. They were just awesome.

And talking about, you know, interviewing with respecting people's time and who they are, giving them credibility by doing your research. There was a classic example of Jian Ghomeshi on CBC who interviewed Billy Bob Thornton.

That's the one. I thought about it. You brought that up in our class.

Oh, my go. That was an incredible listening experience.

Billy Bob Thornton's PR people had said, do not ask him about his acting career because he's here to be talking about his music career. First thing Jian Ghomeshi said was something about his acting career. And Billy Bob Thornton said two words.

Every time he asked him a question, Billy Bob Thornton answered in two words. And Jian Ghomeshi had a hell of a time back dragging words, but he didn't respect what was asked.

I know he was pushing the envelope, but he pushed the wrong person. So I guess, you know, it's all. You have to understand what's happening in front of you and go with it. You never know what's gonna happen, do you?

You don't know what's gonna happen. And you have to. Yeah, you like, I'm all for pushing the boundary, but you also have to, like, push in the right thing.

Like, you don't really want to piss people off unless that's your goal for your show, I guess. But also, too, if one person has that experience now, you know, it's not like radio.

People will still go in because they're brought in and it's the radio, and usually they're touring or whatever they're trying to promote. But, like, on a podcast, they don't have to go on your podcast. Even if you have the top podcast, they don't have to go on your podcast.

So that's the thing that I think people don't realize is, like, even when you get to the top and you have lots of listeners and stuff, you know, if you piss off the wrong person, they will go tell their friends, and then they won't go back on that podcast. So you really got to be careful, because people don't need to do podcasts.

No, they don't, do they? And we're so grateful you're here because you didn't need to do this.

It's weird to me, though.

You'Re on that seat.

I know. I was like, hot seat. I never get interviewed. I've only been on a few.

And two, you're my teachers, and now I have a company where I teach you guys about podcasting.

It's very weird, but you have new skills that we don't have. And one of the questions that I had for you was about promotion, sales, marketing for podcasting.

Is that a different attitude when you're looking at working on the business side of it, other than the performance side of it, what do you do differently on that side?

Yeah, well, it's so interesting because when you work for a radio station, you have all these departments, pr, sales, everything. When you do your own podcast or when you do a business podcast, you have us. Yes, but you have to basically create all the departments.

And I always tell people doing a podcast is like, sales. It's no different. You have to do business development for your podcast.

Because if people don't know that you have a podcast, then you're not going to get any listeners. So I was like, you have to hustle your podcast like you would hustle your business.

Because I work with a lot of entrepreneurs or realtors and stuff that are great at selling. And now I'm like, now sell the podcast. So there's so many different things you can do.

Because the neat thing about podcasting is there's not a one size fits all. There's no silver bullet, which we'd all wish for to make it easy.

But, like, some podcasts are great at doing newsletters, and that works for them to get listeners. So some podcasts do a lot on social media, like TikTok or Instagram, and that's where they get their people.

Some people are really good at getting people to follow, like word of mouth and like going to networking events and getting people. There are so many ways to market your podcast, but it has to be right for you. Like, I have a realtor that's got a podcast. And he.

I said, what works for your business?

And he said, when we go to sell houses, believe it or not, he said, our top thing is our mailers or leaving a brochure at the house when we door knock. And he said, that's how we get all our business. And I said, great.

Now add a QR code to your mailer for your podcast, because all the information that would be on that mailer and it's a way for them to know you put your QR code on the mailer. So it's just find different things that you do already in your marketing strategy. And adding the podcast to that sounds so simple. I know.

Or the biggest one that I tell people that I'm like, let people know you have a podcast. Because most people don't.

And I said, when you're networking specifically, if your pockets is tied to your business, obviously don't do it in, like, a sleazy way.

But, like, if I'm talking to someone about something like home building, and they're like, oh, I'm a home builder and, you know, we're building homes. And I said, oh, I do this podcast for Haven Measure toys cut once. And they're like, oh, I didn't know there was a resource like that.

They're like, I'm like, yeah, make sure you follow us. We don't talk enough about it. Again, you need to listen to what they're saying. And most people won't say that they have a podcast. Do you guys.

I'm gonna put you in the hot seat.

When you're out talking.

Do you tell people you have a podcast?

Yeah, I'm really proud of it. I really enjoy it. It's one of my fav parts of my day. I love talking to people like you. I love the whole energy of this thing. Yes.

So, yeah, I'm very proud of it. Kevin.

Well, we're doing something a bit different too, right? We're not just trying to sell a product like a lot of podcasts.

You shouldn't be Trying to sell a product on your podcast.

Oh, I know. Just that's how much we hear most podcasts, though not from my clients. No, of course not you, Jim.

Whereas we're trying to change the world and create a movement and creative community about ideas and stuff, Right? So we treat it a little differently. And, yeah, we tell everybody, join our.

Movement, join your movement, but that's the way you should be doing it.

In all honesty, when I sit down with clients, it's like, you really have to make sure that you have the right goal for your pockets and actually think. I asked you guys this when I first chatted with you. I was like, what's your goal for your pockets? You told me. And that's a thing.

A lot of people were like, we use it as business development. We want to meet other people in the sector. Like, these are great goals. Too many people are focused on, oh, well, I want listeners.

And it's like, well, no, you need have a goal besides listeners. Like, if you want to create your podcast because there's certain people that you want to meet and have on, that's a great goal.

Something eventually will come up for that.

I was talking to a school at one point, and they were saying that their students actually create podcasts in the classroom and then use it to get jobs afterwards. Because the job market is so hard and doesn't mean that they're going on, go on and speak on a podcast ever again.

They're just using it as a way of, like, if I want to, say, work in it, who would I like? What are some of the companies that I'm interested in? Why wouldn't I pick different people to talk to? And then they get to know me.

And then when a job posting's up, I'm not just waiting in this, like, thousand pile pool of resumes.

Are there so many podcasts that the market is saturated now?

It's not saturated. So that is the biggest lie.

And the reason it's not saturated is most people can't get past pod fade, which means that most people, you guys are episode 30, so you're well past pod fade.

Pod fade. I like that.

Fade, yeah. So this is the term. This is where my podcast terms come out. Not my broadcast terms, but podcast.

I don't know if they've changed it because I feel like eight is a lot, but when I first started my company, they said most people can't get past making eight episodes. I feel like it's less now because I feel like most people are three. But, yeah, apparently once you get past eight podcasts, you're golden.

You're committed to it.

Is that because there's so much work in terms of getting the guests and producing? We're lucky. We have a fabulous producer. Thank you, Dan. We love you. And they don't know how to do that.

And then they got to market it, and they've got to sell it and they've got to promote it. Is that part of that business too complicated?

Like anything, there's no instant gratification. And that's the problem. People don't want to take the time to do it.

And because it's so much work, they're like, everyone expects that they're going to put a podcast out and they're going to get billions of listeners tomorrow.

Meet Joe Rogan.

Yeah. And that. That's the thing is podcasts are slow growth.

Like, I've gone to conferences where there are people that are now on the stage talking, that make money, and that's their business, and they're like a top podcast in a category. But they said it literally took them five to eight years to get there.

Wow.

But it was them slogging it for how many years?

And that's another big thing people forget is, and I think relates to pod fate, is a lot of people, they start a podcast, they're not passionate about what they're talking about. If you're not passionate about what you're talking about, don't do a podcast, because there are going to be days.

And I'm sure you guys feel this, too, that you're like, why are we doing this? It's so much work. But you love it. And that's the thing is, like, you've got to go in, and this is like, anything, you gotta love it.

Thinking that you're not gonna make a dime on it ever, because too many people want to. Like, it's like social media. People are like, oh, I want to be on TikTok and have thousands of followers.

Well, I know people that took them years to build up their TikTok. Again, people don't have patience.

And I think that's the biggest downfall is, like, you just can't put a podcast together and expect that you're gonna get a whole bunch of people listening tomorrow.

Patience. Well, that's a great concept.

I think from a consumer standpoint, too. There's the illusion, Right. It looks easy. It looks like it all happened overnight. And so from a consumer perspective, you go, oh, that's.

I could do that easy. I'll just chat in a couple of podcasts. I'm famous. It isn't what it looks like. Right.

It's. It's a lot of work, like anything.

And that's the other thing of why people think it's saturated, too, because podcast has had such a buzz in the last few years. Everyone hears podcast. So I even know when I talk to people, they're like, what? What do you do? And I said, podcasts.

And they're like, oh, like, that's going to work. And I said, no, no, you don't understand the industry because it's actually very young. And that's. It's interesting.

They compare it to radio when I go to the conferences. And they said that it is still in its first inning compared to radio, because it's just.

Even though it's been around for quite a few number of years, it's still like a little infant because you don't remember, like, broadcasting, dentistry, medicine has been around for, like, a long time. And like, podcasting has only been in the last, like, how many years? 20 years? Less than that. Yeah.

Oh, it's only been big. Yeah. Probably 10 if it's in its infancy. Where do you see it going in the future?

I think that's a big question, Kevin.

Well, come on, Jen, you're a pro.

I know, but I feel like it's gonna go so many places. So anyways, there's a few things that I think is a good bellwether. First off, last week I was watching the Golden Globes.

They had a podcast category, so that was really exciting.

We weren't nominated. I don't understand.

Yeah. How come we weren't there?

Jen, Jen, Again, you guys are only how many episodes? 30.

30.

Come on.

We got past pod fade, so we're good.

So we should be up for awards pretty soon. Golden Globes.

It was interesting because, yes, it was a celebrity category. Amy Poehler did win.

But that being said, podcast celebrities, meaning that people that did not were nobodies that really only made their art in podcasting, were nominated against the, quote, unquote, traditional celebrities that were actors. So, like, Call Her Daddy was one of the nominees as well. So I was like, that's a good sign because they're not just using celebrities.

Smart list was on there, like people that were actors that had a following. This woman had grown her following. Yeah. And she just hit on something. But she said her podcast for quite a long time, too.

And so Amy Poehler did win, and I heard her podcast is phenomenal. The thing I liked about it, though, when she accepted her Award was she basically said that podcasts don't make themselves. She thanked her producer.

I love that because people don't realize how much goes behind the scenes, especially at her level. She probably has a full team behind her, like a movie production.

And so that's the thing is, it's like, that was really exciting for me because I was like a. She thinks her producer. And two, they. We. We just recognized what a podcast was. Nobody recognized before what a podcast is. We hear it about it.

Obviously, there's a lot of, like, buzz around. A lot of top people do it, and it's a huge industry, but no one recognizes it on that stage.

And so I think I told people it's just the beginning because then they could have a lighting category for a video podcast and they could have an editing category. Like, all the categories that we see for film and television could be used as podcasts.

Because we don't look at podcasts as a big production. No, we don't, but it is.

Yeah. It's using all the same.

It's just another form of media techniques.

Yeah. So I think that's really exciting because I think we'll see more of that. And then the other side is.

And I've been saying that might be a little controversial, is I love traditional broadcasting. Obviously, that was my first love and that's where I wanted to get into it.

But I honestly see, and for my company, I say podcasting is broadcasting because I do see podcasting merging more and taking over from the traditional media because obviously we've seen a lot of cuts lately and something that probably isn't discussed on this podcast. And one of the big cuts was the global helicopter is no more across Canada. So that's just showing us now that, like, things are going.

And I don't like to think negative because I said, yes, it sucks that people are losing their jobs, and I don't want that to happen. And. And we're seeing so much change in it. But I also think we're going to start seeing some good.

We're just not bridging that gap between podcasting and traditional broadcasting, even though, as we discussed earlier, there's so many similarities. And so I tried to tell people, I said, we're not as much as we want to think, like, oh, we're podcasters, we're cool.

Like, we're not part of the old, like, broadcast.

We are because, like, and this is where we're kind of controversial, because in my mind, when I look at podcasts and I come from a broadcast background, A lot of the stuff we're doing is we're not reinventing the wheel. Like I said, everything that I use, I've used in radio.

Yes, maybe our audiences are a bit different and maybe I'm tweaking my message depending on it, but really the only difference is that you're not listening to me on a terrestrial tower. So I think we're just seeing a shift. So there's so many things to think about in the future, but not, not bad things.

I just think we're, we're heading into. Well, we're in the digital age, but.

You know what I mean? Further in. Hopefully, hopefully some of the bad things about legacy media we leave behind, you know.

What bad things?

Yeah, there's none. Wasn't there. Well, you know, the not paying attention to the audience, paying attention to the advertiser entirely.

And your audience is just whatever, they'll just come along, you know, podcast is much more about the audience. I think it is.

And it's more niche and that's.

That's good, that's important. That's a, that's a shift that was needed and you don't pay attention to your audience and it goes away. Right. And sure enough, that's what happened.

And that's the thing, it's not a widespread audience either. Like you said, you can niche down. Like, I know successful podcasts that are just on fly fishing, but there's a market for that.

Like you said earlier, you want to build a community. Like, that's the neat thing about podcasting is you don't have to, like, try to get viewers every day to such a wide mass.

Because that's the thing is when you, you watch traditional media, they're trying to make it for everyone, which is great.

Just waters down the.

But it's hard because, like, especially now when we're in this siloed world of how we even listen to stuff. People listen on their phones, people listen on their computer, people watch YouTube, people watch TikTok you.

It's really hard to catch everybody at the same time. So you really have to have a medium, like, where you can actually, like, niche down and get to your target audience.

Because widespread's not gonna work anymore because everyone listens differently and at different times, like in their routines, walking the dog, going to the gym before bed. Like, they're not clocking in at like 8 o' clock in the morning to watch the news.

Well, I think if you think bubbles, if you try to appeal to all the different bubbles that are in their own world, Hating everybody else. You gotta water your content down so far so you don't piss anybody off that you don't appeal to anybody. Yeah, and that's a problem.

You know, one of the negative sides I see in podcasting was like AM radio in the US years ago, that it is assembled an audience quickly based on right wing politics. You know, and radio made that mistake for a while. Some of podcasting is doing the same thing.

I mean, we talked about a local guy here who has moved from broadcasting doing the same thing. Who do we talk about again?

Are we gonna say his name?

Oh, yeah, no, absolutely.

Kit Carson.

Kit Carson. Kit Carson's a Vancouver personality who did the same thing, who went MAGA crazy. Went right wing crazy. And it works, right?

You can boil down to that core audience quickly.

Well, that's the only thing that I think about podcasting is because obviously working in broadcasting here, specifically in Canada, we're governed by the crtc. And with podcasting, there is no governance. You can do whatever you want.

You can lie, you can cheat, you can steal. Yeah. Whatever it takes.

You can swear.

Yeah. Which is, you know, it's good for freedom of speech. But then also too, we might create problems in the future where.

And with the use of AI, we're starting to see it too. Like it can clone people. It can. And do things. So it's like you could have a lot of misrepresentation and you can ruin people's livelihoods and stuff.

Jen, now you're coming. Now you're coming down to our side. This is what we do towards the end of each of our podcasts. Right.

Is we go, remember, we're about making the world a better place. We are about challenging the bullies that seem to be leading in the political right right now. We're about giving a voice to everyone. So you're right.

We're trying to steer this in a certain direction to build a community for the better. What tips would you have for us to try to make the world a better place?

What steps can we take to build that community and counter this right wing bully thing that's going on in the world right now?

Wow, that is like the million dollar question.

We're putting you on the bank.

I know. I was like, come on.

I don't know.

I think I'm gonna be the interviewer again. I don't know if I like being the interviewee. We never did a class about what it was like to be the interviewer.

It's gonna be authentic.

Jen, tell us what you've seen I think to build a community to combat obviously what's going on. It is still putting out positive, authentic, positive messages, though. And I think being honest.

And that's the one thing I do like about podcasting, is that you can be more truthful on a podcast. And people resonate more when you talk about what's going on in the world on your own personal.

And again, it's not ruffling any feathers, but people like it when you do talk about your opinions and you're more authentic because there are some days that you look at the TV and you're like, what is going on in the world? And you're like, I don't know, I feel sad. And that's okay to say on a podcast, opposed to back in the day in radio and even talk radio.

We never really talked about our feelings, say happy things.

That's it.

We never did.

And that's a connection. Right? And that creates a connection when you can talk about your feelings.

But the reason why podcast is so, well, is like, especially to, like, some people that have been able to really move the needle on when it comes to mental health and stuff. They're. As much as it's scary, they're honest with their audience of what they're feeling or what their body is going through.

And I think, oh, they're vulnerable.

Yeah, yeah, it's great. And that's why we connect more. So I think it's like we have to have a v. Vulnerable positivity to.

Kind of move the needle, let people in. I'm curious about the conferences that you go to.

What kind of ideas and thought makers or what are they coming up with in terms of leading the industry?

Oh, you guys are asking some tough questions. I want to be on the other side, man. There's so many different thoughts.

And the thing is, it's like there's so many different types of podcasts, which you don't realize. And that's the other thing. It's like, because some of them are really niche. It's. They're kind of creating their own way.

And like, a lot of the different thoughts of like a, you know, we can get in the whole video debate, video and podcast debate. And that happens every conference, which everyone leaves the conference and they're like, I still not sure if we should do video.

So, so, so that is a thought. That's one big thought is video and podcasts. And that stems from. Obviously YouTube is now part of the podcasting game. They have.

YouTube is recognized as a player. They have their own YouTube playlist on your channel. So it operates no differently than like a Spotify or whatever. You just pick your podcast.

Some have videos, some do not.

I always say that you just have to be on YouTube because again, this is where podcasting differs from traditional radio or traditional media is the searchability factor. Because we talk about that in the comments too. It's like, how is your podcast being searched? Because that's what it is. It's a big thing.

It's like making sure it's on your website correctly making sure that you're getting the SEO juice from your podcast on your website. What is your titling title? Oh, you and Kevin and I spent an hour trying to come up with a tell title for your podcast in general.

Uh huh. That was a toughie because I was always fun, but a toughie.

And people don't realize that's a lot of the. The hard work. Yeah, everyone's like, oh, I have a Puget, so I'll name it this. And it's like, no, it's not that easy.

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope. We went through how many? 8, 10, I don't know, 15, 20.

We were all on our phones, like Googling, like constantly. But that's something too. It's just like making sure you're podcast is titled properly. Like I said, for the whole video thing.

Everyone always asks my opinion on this because again, this is a hot button topic. Do I do video?

My thing is, and I feel like you guys will appreciate this, is that you just have to be on YouTube, but it doesn't have to be video because if you're not comfortable with video, learn how to do the audio first and learn how to tell a story and learn how to be conversational and be good at that. You can always add video. And that's why. And again, that's a controversial topic because there's two sides and they're very vocal.

But the video is coming in and it should. Some podcasts are amazing on video, some podcasts are not because some people are not great on video.

And again, it's getting that comfortability factor with it. Does it mean you're excluded from beyond YouTube? No. They have an RSS feed. It will pull up your podcasts. It will just take what? Just be warned.

It will take whatever art you have associated with your podcasts. So if you don't love that art, then change it. But that's the thing is it's like there's so many different things when it comes to video.

And I could go on about it, but I always Tell people again, people might like my answer, but I tell people, get comfortable with audio first. I know that's where I came from.

It makes sense, though, because audio was well before video anyways. And if you can master that, then you can master the art of video.

You really can also find out because like I said before, you spend all the money on video going and everything like that. Find out if you like doing it first. That's the thing is, like, what if you get to it and you're like, I hate podcasting.

Yeah, yeah.

Which could happen. And you're like, oh. You're like, no, thank you.

Selling your stuff on Marketplace.

Or like, what if you get an office?

Or not an office, sorry, get an audience with your audio podcast and people love it and you start to gain a real big following and you really start to get into it, then you can add video too. Not saying you have to wait to that point, but you obviously know then your idea is working before you invest more time and more money into video.

Very wise. When's the next conference?

London coming with me?

This convo just defines that communicating isn't about sounding impressive. It's about making someone feel heard. Jen leads that.

That idea of working with the other person's energy, being curious and staying human, that's where the real connection lives.

And whether you're interviewing someone, leading a team, or just having an important conversation, people know when you're present, and they sure know when you're not.

Jen also gave such an honest look at the work behind podcasting that it's not instant, it's not effortless, and it definitely isn't one size fits all.

But when you care about what you're sharing and you stay connected to your purpose, that's what carries you through the slow growth and the learning curves.

Connect with us at Ignite My Voice for coaching with one of our talent developmenters and join our retreat coming up in Mexico in December.

A chance to decompress and reconnect to your authentic self. It's not just a getaway, it's a reset for your voice, your body, and your spirit. Ignite my voice.com.

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