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How Simplifying Marketing Strategies can Lead to Business Growth | RR266
Episode 2669th July 2024 • Relationships Rule • Janice Porter
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In today's episode, I talk with Caroline Crawford, owner of Cultiveight Communications. She’s been rocking the marketing world for 13 years and has valuable insights on how to connect with clients and build those natural relationships that make a business thrive. Caroline has some great tips on training your team to communicate just like you, and she breaks down why an integrated marketing approach is the way to go.

We get into some fun stuff, like the story behind the name of her company, and some serious talk about the challenges businesses face with limited resources and rising market pressures. Caroline shares her thoughts on the differences in communication styles across generations in the workplace, and why understanding your audience is key to authentic and effective marketing.

She’s got plenty of advice for solopreneurs trying to keep their voice consistent on social media and for anyone feeling overwhelmed by marketing tasks. I promise you an episode that will enhance your understanding and approach to modern marketing challenges.

You’ll learn about:

  • Integrated marketing approach for businesses with limited resources.
  • Scaling back marketing efforts for better results
  • Marketing strategies for various types of businesses.
  • Communication Skills in the Modern Workspace
  • Balancing personal and professional communication styles based on age and audience.


You can reach Caroline at: caroline@cultiveightcommunications.com

Website: http://www.cultiveightcommunications.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ccrawford22

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cultiveightcomms/#

Free 3 Step Guide To Cultivate Your Competitive Edge : https://www.cultiveightcommunications.com/competitive-marketing-guide


A little about me: 

I began my career as a teacher, was a corporate trainer for many years, and then found my niche training & supporting business owners, entrepreneurs & sales professionals to network at a world-class level. My passion is working with motivated people, who are coachable and who want to build their businesses through relationship marketing and networking (online & offline). I help my clients create retention strategies, grow through referrals, and create loyal customers by staying connected. 


In appreciation for being here, I have a couple of items for you: 

A LinkedIn Checklist for setting up your fully optimized Profile:  

An opportunity to test drive the Follow Up system I recommend by taking the  

3 Card Sampler—you won’t regret it.   


Connect with me: 

http://JanicePorter.com 

https://www.linkedin.com/in/janiceporter/ 

https://www.facebook.com/janiceporter1 


Thanks for listening! 

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Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a note in the comment section below!


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Transcripts

Janice Porter:

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this week's

Janice Porter:

episode of relationships rule. My special guest today is

Janice Porter:

Caroline Crawford. Caroline is a marketer, a marketing and

Janice Porter:

communications expert. And she's coming to us from sunny Florida,

Janice Porter:

which I say that it's usually sunny there compared to where I

Janice Porter:

am. So welcome to the show, Caroline.

Caroline Crawford:

Thank you so much for having me, Janice. I'm

Janice Porter:

excited to be here. My pleasure. So I know

Janice Porter:

that you've been in this business for about 13 years or

Janice Porter:

so and basically, didn't think didn't know I'm not sure if you

Janice Porter:

got there by choice, or by chance you fell into it. But I

Janice Porter:

think that you love what you do from what I have gleaned in

Janice Porter:

conversations with you. And I am going to start by asking you a

Janice Porter:

Caroline is the owner of a company called cultivate

Janice Porter:

communications.com. And when I just say it, I think the word

Janice Porter:

cultivate. And when I look at it, I know you spell it

Janice Porter:

differently. And I'm curious to know why. I mean, I know it's,

Janice Porter:

it's, and I asked because I started to write it when I first

Janice Porter:

you know, wanted to know more. And of course, I just stopped

Janice Porter:

myself and look at what you had said. So was it by design? And

Janice Porter:

if so, is it a good thing? Or is it turning out to be

Janice Porter:

frustrating? And I do have to ask because I'm curious.

Caroline Crawford:

I appreciate the question. And not many

Caroline Crawford:

people, some people ask, and when they ask, they're like, Oh,

Caroline Crawford:

that makes so much sense. But no, it was intentional. I knew I

Caroline Crawford:

wanted a relatively neutral name for the company. But something

Caroline Crawford:

that was also not just like, some random word, I wanted it to

Caroline Crawford:

also be have some sort of meaning to it of what we are

Caroline Crawford:

really ultimately trying to accomplish. However, I also

Caroline Crawford:

wanted to make it personal. And so my initials are CEC. And so I

Caroline Crawford:

wanted so when I don't know the word cultivate came up, and I

Caroline Crawford:

realized that was something I could kind of manipulate a

Caroline Crawford:

little bit to make it unique, make it stand out a little bit

Caroline Crawford:

because there's there are other businesses with cultivate in it

Caroline Crawford:

and things like that. And so an eight is my favorite number. And

Caroline Crawford:

my birth month, so there are some there are some intention.

Caroline Crawford:

Yeah, personal little, like nuggets in there or easter eggs

Caroline Crawford:

in there as you if you will. But yeah, that's basically where it

Caroline Crawford:

came from. So

Janice Porter:

it wasn't like a marketing ploy, per se. No, no,

Janice Porter:

I

Caroline Crawford:

really wanted to be ever since started my

Caroline Crawford:

company, I wanted to be very intentional with it. And it

Caroline Crawford:

started with the name. Okay.

Janice Porter:

All right. Well, that's, that's good to know. And

Janice Porter:

I'm glad. And Carolyn has a podcast as well called the edge

Janice Porter:

effect. And I kind of liked that as well. But yeah, so just just

Janice Porter:

my curiosity. Okay, the other thing I was say comes out of

Janice Porter:

your, your bio, which I want to ask you, Caroline is on a

Janice Porter:

mission of supporting more business leaders to secure an

Janice Porter:

integrated marketing approach that goes beyond typical

Janice Porter:

marketing gimmicks. Alright, so. And I and the one thing I wanted

Janice Porter:

to say first, and didn't, you also let you want to address

Janice Porter:

challenges faced by businesses, such as limited resources, and

Janice Porter:

market pressures. So those things you you care about? And

Janice Porter:

you look for ways to help clients that are on a limited

Janice Porter:

budget? But what do you mean by an integrated marketing approach

Janice Porter:

that goes beyond the typical marketing gimmicks? Let's talk

Janice Porter:

about what you do and what was special about what you do?

Caroline Crawford:

Yeah, I, when I'm talking about an integrated

Caroline Crawford:

marketing approach, it is. I think when you look at the

Caroline Crawford:

industry and for anyone who's hired outside, particularly

Caroline Crawford:

outside marketing resources, obviously, because once they're

Caroline Crawford:

in house, they're way more integrated, of course, right.

Caroline Crawford:

But with outside marketing resources, there is a disconnect

Caroline Crawford:

that happens, understandably, so justifiably. So right, is

Caroline Crawford:

because it's a totally separate company, they have margins to

Caroline Crawford:

make, they have to apply what they do in a very structured

Caroline Crawford:

way. However, when you are working with a company that

Caroline Crawford:

potentially has limited in house marketing resources, even if

Caroline Crawford:

they have some, if it's not, if they don't have a dedicated

Caroline Crawford:

resource, for instance, and they're putting all their eggs

Caroline Crawford:

in, in this one agency basket, or even if they've got a couple,

Caroline Crawford:

it doesn't really matter at that point. But what starts to happen

Caroline Crawford:

is that there's a huge reliance on the internal team, to have

Caroline Crawford:

the agency truly support them in the way that they need to

Caroline Crawford:

because I think when when some when an agreement kind of first

Caroline Crawford:

comes into place. You know what you need, right? Like, that's

Caroline Crawford:

how you start the conversation with an agency, they're able to

Caroline Crawford:

tap into what you need. But when it comes to marketing, and I can

Caroline Crawford:

really only speak to marketing, of course, but I'm sure, maybe

Caroline Crawford:

it applies into some other bleeds into some other areas.

Caroline Crawford:

But marketing in particular is an area within a business where

Caroline Crawford:

you can have kind of cut and dry tasks, but the implementation of

Caroline Crawford:

them, there's so much behind the scenes that happens, you know,

Caroline Crawford:

you have one social media post, like three social media posts a

Caroline Crawford:

week, but what you're not seeing behind is how are those social

Caroline Crawford:

media posts getting created, there's research involved,

Caroline Crawford:

there's creative involved, there's rounds, feedback,

Caroline Crawford:

rounds, all these things. It's just an example, right? And so

Caroline Crawford:

when you're working with an outside resource, they have to

Caroline Crawford:

stick to what's in that retainer, right. And there's not

Caroline Crawford:

that much wiggle room outside of those specific deliverables,

Caroline Crawford:

because they have to guarantee something. But so what starts to

Caroline Crawford:

happen is, as the company grows or just evolves, their

Caroline Crawford:

priorities shift their leaves a little room to truly expand the

Caroline Crawford:

scope in a way that works and is flexible enough, that doesn't

Caroline Crawford:

essentially have to have another conversation about revising the

Caroline Crawford:

complete agreement, things like that. Again, not there's ways to

Caroline Crawford:

do it, there's, you know, not to agencies have found a way. But

Caroline Crawford:

what starts to happen, in particular, when when talking

Caroline Crawford:

about an integrated marketing approach is that there it is,

Caroline Crawford:

siloed off. And so their job is focused on whatever you've hired

Caroline Crawford:

them for. But because they aren't in the aware of all the

Caroline Crawford:

happenings in between, unless you are communicating with them

Caroline Crawford:

specifically about these things, they can actually support you to

Caroline Crawford:

the best of their ability in the way that you actually need to be

Caroline Crawford:

supported. Because you don't know what they don't know it's

Caroline Crawford:

not second, it's not second nature to share with them all

Caroline Crawford:

the happenings going on because you don't know you don't want to

Caroline Crawford:

bombard them with things. So our approach is a little bit

Caroline Crawford:

different. And that we actually embed ourselves into as though

Caroline Crawford:

we're almost like an in house team. And so that's how we are,

Caroline Crawford:

that's how we integrate and basically create this integrated

Caroline Crawford:

marketing approach to where we treat us like as you would as

Caroline Crawford:

though you just hired an in house marketer. Because that

Caroline Crawford:

way, we at least our team thrives better, when we are more

Caroline Crawford:

aware of what's going on, even if we don't have to act on it,

Caroline Crawford:

right? Even if we know that if we know something's in the

Caroline Crawford:

pipeline, or we know the mindset, or we know how you're

Caroline Crawford:

working, even if just this is how that people communicate

Caroline Crawford:

amongst themselves. This is how you, you're communicating to the

Caroline Crawford:

client, as much visibility as we have to how they naturally

Caroline Crawford:

operate, the more we have the ability to cater our strategies

Caroline Crawford:

and the services that they need to truly deliver them in the way

Caroline Crawford:

that works for them without adding an extra layer of

Caroline Crawford:

responsibility to them. And I think that's what happens a lot

Caroline Crawford:

of time with more traditional marketing agencies or structures

Caroline Crawford:

is that it requires someone dedicated to manage that agency

Caroline Crawford:

and to truly be, exactly and to truly have that kind of

Caroline Crawford:

collaborative, dynamic. So

Janice Porter:

even you know, when I think because I'm just,

Janice Porter:

you know, a solopreneur, but when I think of times when, when

Janice Porter:

I have thought about having someone do social media posts

Janice Porter:

for me, I can't let go because it's, if I'm not going to do it,

Janice Porter:

and someone's going to do it for me, they're not me. And so it

Janice Porter:

takes the time to make them understand my voice for them to

Janice Porter:

do it, I might as well just do it myself. And so on a bigger

Janice Porter:

scale, I kind of see what you're saying in the sense that you

Janice Porter:

really have to understand the client and you have to be the

Janice Porter:

client really, to speak their, their words to to be that

Janice Porter:

company. Right. And yeah, and

Caroline Crawford:

I think to what again, why it's like, it's

Caroline Crawford:

a little bit different is because traditional agency

Caroline Crawford:

dynamic is they are siloed off, they have to focus on one the,

Caroline Crawford:

the areas that you hire them to so PR as an example, right,

Caroline Crawford:

they're focused on that thing, however, to for them to be able

Caroline Crawford:

to do their job better and even like beyond, you know, to really

Caroline Crawford:

have it be so, so effective in a way that especially when you're

Caroline Crawford:

working with company that has limited resources, they have to

Caroline Crawford:

really have more of an understanding of what's going on

Caroline Crawford:

the moment that there's kind of a disconnect with what's

Caroline Crawford:

happening in the company, to what they're doing. You start to

Caroline Crawford:

see this like fracture in the dynamic and it doesn't and

Caroline Crawford:

things start to be a little bit less proactive. It's a lot more

Caroline Crawford:

reactive because they all they can really do at the end of the

Caroline Crawford:

day is risk font to whatever you're delivering to them and

Caroline Crawford:

saying, so with an integrated approach, and I appreciate the

Caroline Crawford:

example you use with social media, it's like, yes, you have

Caroline Crawford:

to kind of train people to know how you operate to know what you

Caroline Crawford:

like. And they can kind of shape it and mold it as you go.

Caroline Crawford:

Sometimes it may just simply evolve. But when you are

Caroline Crawford:

integrated with marketing, especially with limited

Caroline Crawford:

resources, you can be so much more strategic in how things are

Caroline Crawford:

done, and also more realistic about adoption, too. So adoption

Caroline Crawford:

with marketing for certain processes, is really critical,

Caroline Crawford:

right, like so you can have a process with someone who's doing

Caroline Crawford:

your social media posts, where you set up a process where you

Caroline Crawford:

feel comfortable with the tone that they're extracting from you

Caroline Crawford:

the knowledge that they're extracting from you, but they're

Caroline Crawford:

still doing some of that legwork. There is a process that

Caroline Crawford:

can be set up. But if there's a certain part of the process that

Caroline Crawford:

you're like, well, this doesn't work for me, because you prefer

Caroline Crawford:

to handwrite notes versus writing it in like a project

Caroline Crawford:

management system. This is a simple example. Right? But that

Caroline Crawford:

also needs to be taken into account, because you can it

Caroline Crawford:

doesn't matter, the scope of process you deliver, it doesn't

Caroline Crawford:

matter, the strategy doesn't matter anything. If you can't

Caroline Crawford:

actually, if you if no one's willing to adopt this process to

Caroline Crawford:

execute it. It won't get done. And so how do you essentially

Caroline Crawford:

build strategies that are easily adopt a bowl? And how do you

Caroline Crawford:

build strategies that don't feel like you have to completely

Caroline Crawford:

shift your mindset, which again, make it harder to adopt that

Caroline Crawford:

change?

Janice Porter:

Right. Okay, that makes sense. So you? How would

Janice Porter:

you say that sometimes you want to cut your marketing your

Janice Porter:

marketing efforts in half. And that can actually lead to

Janice Porter:

increased engagement and new leads. And it's funny, because I

Janice Porter:

think you're talking about some, I don't know if it's just social

Janice Porter:

media that you're talking about. But I just saw something

Janice Porter:

recently, because you know that I'm, I'm a LinkedIn trainer. So

Janice Porter:

I talked to people specifically about LinkedIn, not about the

Janice Porter:

other. I have nothing. I've no expertise in the other social

Janice Porter:

media platforms. But what I do understand is that on LinkedIn,

Janice Porter:

I find newbies will come over and they'll post post, post post

Janice Porter:

post, and it's ridiculous. But they haven't got their profile

Janice Porter:

up to snuff, and so on. But they think that more is better. And

Janice Porter:

it isn't necessarily, and I think this is maybe what you're

Janice Porter:

talking about, but maybe not so can you

Caroline Crawford:

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And it's along

Caroline Crawford:

the it's definitely along those lines. So what happens and

Caroline Crawford:

that's a great example, that's just in the realm of social

Caroline Crawford:

media. But what happens often, and social media is a perfect

Caroline Crawford:

example of this. But just speaking generally. So often,

Caroline Crawford:

when people are trying to go be aggressive with their marketing,

Caroline Crawford:

they just put themselves everywhere, they take advantage

Caroline Crawford:

of every single channel. So a lot, that's why like, often

Caroline Crawford:

you'll see companies with like, all the different social media

Caroline Crawford:

buttons at the end of their emails, or websites or whatever,

Caroline Crawford:

right? And then you go and you see you're like, Oh, that's

Caroline Crawford:

interesting. Or maybe their Twitter is lacking or their

Caroline Crawford:

LinkedIn, you know, it's just not, they're just copying and

Caroline Crawford:

pasting the things or not actually paying attention to the

Caroline Crawford:

actual platform. Again, just using that example on on

Caroline Crawford:

LinkedIn. Right? This happens a lot like and so I had this I

Caroline Crawford:

have one example where I had a client where she came to me, she

Caroline Crawford:

was so burnt out with marketing, she had no idea she was just so

Caroline Crawford:

frustrated. She was like, nothing's working, I'm doing

Caroline Crawford:

everything I'm doing all the things and she took all the

Caroline Crawford:

advice from all these other marketers and she just did

Caroline Crawford:

exactly that. And so what we started to do was really peel

Caroline Crawford:

back to the core of what is right for her business

Caroline Crawford:

obviously, set aside set aside the what's right for your

Caroline Crawford:

client, what is right for her business, what is and that means

Caroline Crawford:

what is right for her, she was solopreneur so in this sense, we

Caroline Crawford:

really scaled back about okay, well, these channels are not

Caroline Crawford:

performing well. However, let's just say okay, Twitter was not

Caroline Crawford:

performing well, but Facebook was doing okay, an email you

Caroline Crawford:

know, email is unnecessary channel but it wasn't performing

Caroline Crawford:

well. She was doing YouTube videos she was doing a blog or

Caroline Crawford:

article right all of the thing that's a lot. I like that's a

Caroline Crawford:

mouthful, right? And nothing was doing it and I and so I kept

Caroline Crawford:

asking her and drilling in like, what do you like doing? The only

Caroline Crawford:

thing she liked doing was writing those articles. So I

Caroline Crawford:

said stop everything. And basically, we essentially She

Caroline Crawford:

took the articles that she the one thing she likes doing,

Caroline Crawford:

that's where she puts the most time and energy into. And she

Caroline Crawford:

enjoys it. So it doesn't feel like a heavy lift, right. And I

Caroline Crawford:

taught her how to repurpose what she's doing and spread it into

Caroline Crawford:

intentional channels. So scale back the number of platforms she

Caroline Crawford:

was on, she wasn't even really on Twitter, she never logged

Caroline Crawford:

into it, she just had an automated service kind of

Caroline Crawford:

reposting links that were not necessary. So you're not

Caroline Crawford:

actually taking advantage of the platform itself, and being

Caroline Crawford:

social on social media. And that shows. And so it is along those

Caroline Crawford:

lines of if you are not paying attention to what you are

Caroline Crawford:

actually doing, if you're just doing it for the sake of doing

Caroline Crawford:

it, stop doing it, like there's no point you're not going to

Caroline Crawford:

less you put energy into it, you're not going to make it

Caroline Crawford:

perform better. So what she did was she readjusted her emails,

Caroline Crawford:

she adjust, she's scaled back on whatever social media platform

Caroline Crawford:

she just worked, did not feel natural to her. And we're not

Caroline Crawford:

overly aligned for the business that she was in. She focused on

Caroline Crawford:

the blogs and use that as sort of this driver to dictate, okay,

Caroline Crawford:

where should the blogs go? Right. And she did that within a

Caroline Crawford:

month, she cut her marketing efforts at an at least by 50%.

Caroline Crawford:

And she said she started to see more results. So that's an

Caroline Crawford:

incredible transformation. And she's happier about doing it,

Janice Porter:

of course. And there's so much actually in that

Janice Porter:

that example. So the first thing, and I didn't hear you ask

Janice Porter:

this question, but it has to be it was suddenly in there. So

Janice Porter:

first of all, you asked her what she liked to do best. And that's

Janice Porter:

so important. And and, you know, where do you feel most

Janice Porter:

comfortable is what I asked my clients? Or, you know, a great

Janice Porter:

question, where do you feel most comfortable? But the second

Janice Porter:

question, I think that's that's really important is because it

Janice Porter:

might mean a shift is where are your clients, your or your

Janice Porter:

prospects? Right? There's no point hanging out on Twitter, if

Janice Porter:

your clients are on are on Tik Tok. I mean, it doesn't make

Janice Porter:

sense to me. However, I think, you know, we all have a range of

Janice Porter:

clients and types of clients. But if we aren't comfortable on

Janice Porter:

that platform, there's no point that's the first thing. And so I

Janice Porter:

think that was the smartest thing to say to her. Then the

Janice Porter:

other thing that you said, I love that you then taught her

Janice Porter:

how to repurpose the blog posts and use snippets of them in

Janice Porter:

different ways that say, and that makes a lot of sense. And

Janice Porter:

then the third piece, it just rings true to me and actually

Janice Porter:

goes back to what you were talking about earlier, and I

Janice Porter:

wanted to ask you about is when but I'll start with here, where

Janice Porter:

she was doing. She was starting to get more traction, but she

Janice Porter:

said to you, none of it's working. I'm not you know, this

Janice Porter:

platform isn't working, the platform doesn't do anything,

Janice Porter:

you have to do the work. And so it's the work of posting, but

Janice Porter:

it's also and more importantly, the world of engaging right now

Janice Porter:

are you you're like you, you did mention putting up the things

Janice Porter:

and then nobody looks at them to engage to see she was obviously

Janice Porter:

looking originally because she wasn't getting any engagement.

Janice Porter:

But you it's very important that you in my estimation, whatever

Janice Porter:

you're doing that you pay attention, right, so that if

Janice Porter:

somebody doesn't engage, you start and continue that

Janice Porter:

conversation. That's how business happens through

Janice Porter:

building relationships, which is what I'm all about. Right? But

Janice Porter:

when you know, Jose gonna say, oh, when when you have a team

Janice Porter:

that goes to somebody as business and starts to do their

Janice Porter:

marketing and learn who they are and and build out the content

Janice Porter:

for them, let's say? Do you take the responsibility of teaching

Janice Porter:

them how to respond? How to engage? Or do you just assume

Janice Porter:

that they'll take that part over?

Caroline Crawford:

I think it is definitely dependent on the

Caroline Crawford:

client and the dynamic. The reason being is because you may

Caroline Crawford:

if let's just say you're engaging with someone who is a

Caroline Crawford:

social media community engagement expert, you want to

Caroline Crawford:

hear their advice, right? You may not know the best way,

Caroline Crawford:

right? So I think in that instance, it depends. However,

Caroline Crawford:

most importantly, it has to feel like you and kind of going back

Caroline Crawford:

to what you mentioned before of like, in sort of reiterating of

Caroline Crawford:

like there has to be this intention behind the things that

Caroline Crawford:

you do and that's with everything with marketing,

Caroline Crawford:

however, and that's why I asked what do you like doing because

Caroline Crawford:

you can make the argument that you could kind of justify

Caroline Crawford:

anything that the quote unquote clients will want, right? It's

Caroline Crawford:

like, oh, well, the clients are on Twitter. Yeah, okay. You're

Caroline Crawford:

gonna get some clients Who are on Twitter? Because that's just

Caroline Crawford:

the way the world works masters, right? So there is definitely

Caroline Crawford:

this balance. But when it comes to like actually engaging, you

Caroline Crawford:

have to think about what's actually realistic for you. And

Caroline Crawford:

again, it kind of goes back. So it does matter. How are your

Caroline Crawford:

clients engaging in the platform, for instance? So in

Caroline Crawford:

the case of LinkedIn, how do you how does your ideal client

Caroline Crawford:

engage on LinkedIn? Are they engaging on LinkedIn, because

Caroline Crawford:

that's also telling, but also, like, there are some CEOs, right

Caroline Crawford:

that don't even touch LinkedIn, they're on it, but they don't

Caroline Crawford:

touch it. They it's like a ghost town. So I know I can't, my

Caroline Crawford:

content isn't really going to reach them on LinkedIn, I have

Caroline Crawford:

to find for what, right? So I think when it comes to actually

Caroline Crawford:

hiring someone and getting someone on board and saying, how

Caroline Crawford:

do you engage, you still have to train them to say, this is how I

Caroline Crawford:

naturally operate, they should be looking at, and you should be

Caroline Crawford:

sending them emails about how you communicate with clients, I

Caroline Crawford:

actually always ask my clients send me sample emails, when

Caroline Crawford:

you're talking to clients, I want to know your tone, I want

Caroline Crawford:

to know how you're signing off, I want to know if there's, you

Caroline Crawford:

know, if there is always any improvement to be made to

Caroline Crawford:

certain communications, but I don't, at a certain point, you

Caroline Crawford:

don't want to mess with the natural flow, it's not going to,

Caroline Crawford:

you're not going to be able to adopt that. And so when it comes

Caroline Crawford:

to sort of, again, scaling back and and when you do hire, if you

Caroline Crawford:

do hire a team, it no matter what you're doing, you still

Caroline Crawford:

have to pay attention to what feels most natural to me. And

Caroline Crawford:

how do I interact with the clients, because if there's a

Caroline Crawford:

disconnect, that's going to be shown in the sales process, and

Caroline Crawford:

that could potentially rescue the sale or rescue a client who

Caroline Crawford:

signed on if there is a disconnect. So you want to keep

Caroline Crawford:

it and that's what develops a brand, right? People know me,

Caroline Crawford:

and they know that, who I am online, who I am on podcast, who

Caroline Crawford:

I am with in my client meetings, my family, all the things, it

Caroline Crawford:

actually does not change. Obviously, there's tone, there's

Caroline Crawford:

professional, you know, professionalism, but it doesn't

Caroline Crawford:

change. And so that's why I like keeping that consistency is so

Caroline Crawford:

important. And the more you can train someone else who's doing

Caroline Crawford:

it on your behalf, to learn you to know you to also believe in

Caroline Crawford:

you. And I think that's why that the agency or outsourced

Caroline Crawford:

relationship is just so important to nurture, and

Caroline Crawford:

develop that rapport. And the only way I know how to do it is

Caroline Crawford:

to like, like I said, just be all up in their business. And

Janice Porter:

that's really good. And it makes me think of

Janice Porter:

something though, because Okay, so the give me like three

Janice Porter:

examples, if you can of companies that you work with

Janice Porter:

just an example, it doesn't have to be the name of the company,

Janice Porter:

but like a solopreneur that does this or, you know, a company

Janice Porter:

that's, you know, that sells candles or like, just give me

Janice Porter:

three different examples. I just curious about something I'm

Janice Porter:

always curious

Caroline Crawford:

of, of how they

Janice Porter:

know, just just the three different types of

Janice Porter:

companies that are your best clients.

Caroline Crawford:

Gotcha. Okay. So we work with companies, we're

Caroline Crawford:

actually not, we don't, the verticals don't totally matter.

Caroline Crawford:

However, we are our like bread and butter service base, or

Caroline Crawford:

software as a service, essentially, anything that

Caroline Crawford:

really like relationships are have a heavy part of the

Caroline Crawford:

process. versus, you know, direct to consumer product, we

Caroline Crawford:

that's not necessarily our specialty, but when it comes to

Caroline Crawford:

who we serve, or types of companies that this is really

Caroline Crawford:

what the structure look like, looks like they either our need

Caroline Crawford:

to invest in marketing, but have no idea where to start, like the

Caroline Crawford:

questions are always around marketing, and they're either

Caroline Crawford:

lack of awareness, potentially, or just analysis paralysis. When

Caroline Crawford:

it comes to marketing we work

Janice Porter:

with why don't we do that? Get my products or to

Janice Porter:

get my exactly, so

Caroline Crawford:

they don't do anything? Yeah, exactly. So and

Caroline Crawford:

then it's companies that need more visibility on marketing or

Caroline Crawford:

are working with marketing, but it's just not working the way

Caroline Crawford:

that they want. And so that's why the actual industry or

Caroline Crawford:

specialty doesn't really matter. We really are focused on that

Caroline Crawford:

developing and optimizing that marketing function. Okay,

Janice Porter:

so would you say that the people that you work

Janice Porter:

with range in age like from, you know, millennials to Baby

Janice Porter:

Boomers or, you know, like, are they do they run the gamut?

Caroline Crawford:

They say they do, I think we look at marketing

Caroline Crawford:

readiness, right? So if someone's not ready to actually

Caroline Crawford:

invest, there's, when you first start a business, this is

Caroline Crawford:

particularly the case of service based businesses, you do have to

Caroline Crawford:

do a lot of the legwork yourself in the sense of building those

Caroline Crawford:

relationships and I know you can speak deeply on this right. And

Caroline Crawford:

with your episode coming out a little bit coming out soon you

Caroline Crawford:

will you everyone here can hear it. But that said you do so

Caroline Crawford:

there is this kind of balance and I think that is oh Is the

Caroline Crawford:

balanced SERPs based businesses. However, eventually you want

Caroline Crawford:

your marketing to start working for you. And that's where you

Caroline Crawford:

need to start thinking about how do I want to invest in it? How

Caroline Crawford:

do I really want to, like be guided? And so when it comes to

Caroline Crawford:

the age range, I don't, it doesn't really matter, the ages

Caroline Crawford:

in particular, the specific age of the individuals, but moreso,

Caroline Crawford:

the age of their marketing. Okay, I've worked with companies

Caroline Crawford:

that have been around for 1530 years, and have never really

Caroline Crawford:

gone all in on their marketing, you know, okay,

Janice Porter:

well, I'm leading up to something here. So what

Janice Porter:

I'm looking at is, you're young, I know, you're you say you're

Janice Porter:

older than you look, because you look really young. But you know,

Janice Porter:

I'm gonna great skincare. It's all good. It's all good. But you

Janice Porter:

probably have some younger employees as well. Yes. Okay.

Janice Porter:

Yes. So I guess I've been into watching something lately that's

Janice Porter:

been doing the divide between the Gen Z then the, what is

Janice Porter:

next? What comes with?

Caroline Crawford:

I've lost track? Yeah. Baby Boomers.

Janice Porter:

Gen Y, I think millennials. There's, and then

Janice Porter:

Gen Z.

Caroline Crawford:

And then I think I thought Gen Y was there.

Caroline Crawford:

I don't know.

Janice Porter:

So my question, though, is, when you get someone

Janice Porter:

that that works for you, who's young? And even, like, you know,

Janice Porter:

totally brought up on on social media. Sure. And don't have

Janice Porter:

necessarily the same social skills. The older people have.

Janice Porter:

Yeah, I'm saying everybody that's older has social skills.

Janice Porter:

Don't get me wrong. But you're in the you're in the field of

Janice Porter:

marketing, you're sending a team of people into learn about

Janice Porter:

someone's business. So you got to find the right people. Am I

Janice Porter:

right? That can Oh, yeah, that can brought draw them out. And

Janice Porter:

so I would imagine, there's training involved in younger

Janice Porter:

people being able to do this, because it's not a natural

Janice Porter:

thing. I don't know, I just feel that like, I trained a young man

Janice Porter:

the other day on LinkedIn, who is a videographer, and he's just

Janice Porter:

come out of university, and he's starting his business. And a

Janice Porter:

friend asked me if I would help them. And you know, I have a

Janice Porter:

soft spot for students. And so I did. But I feel as though it's

Janice Porter:

difficult for that young person to talk to somebody who's

Janice Porter:

experienced, but not in video. Sure, he's got the video thing,

Janice Porter:

but it's just the conversation. It's the relationship again. So

Janice Porter:

it's just something that came to me. And I just wonder if you can

Janice Porter:

speak to that, if you know what I'm talking about.

Caroline Crawford:

That is to such a fabulous point. And no

Caroline Crawford:

one has ever asked that. And I And actually, I was just talking

Caroline Crawford:

about it today with a mentor who, essentially, when it comes

Caroline Crawford:

just to answer the first part of your question, but if you don't

Caroline Crawford:

mind, I have some more speak on it. The when it comes to

Caroline Crawford:

training the team, I've I'm very particular with how I

Caroline Crawford:

communicate. Because I, obviously my bread and butter is

Caroline Crawford:

communications, which is fair, but I, there is a level of

Caroline Crawford:

communication that I cater to, because that's how I built my

Caroline Crawford:

reputation while I was in house, and I let that bleed into my

Caroline Crawford:

business because I felt that it allowed it built a lot of trust

Caroline Crawford:

in the relationships I have with my clients and the people I

Caroline Crawford:

worked with, so that I had to train my team, you have to be

Caroline Crawford:

responsive. Obviously, this is we're all human, right? We're we

Caroline Crawford:

all have life, things to do. There is reason here. But you

Caroline Crawford:

have to be responsive, you have to be extremely respectful. And

Caroline Crawford:

you also even in my job descriptions, I put you have to

Caroline Crawford:

be compassionate and empathetic. Because people you don't know

Caroline Crawford:

what people are going through the clients that have come to

Caroline Crawford:

you I know when my client is basically taking out her stress

Caroline Crawford:

on us. And or, you know, it could be with any clients. And I

Caroline Crawford:

think because I dealt with that, while I was in house, I was able

Caroline Crawford:

to see, I was dealing with a lot of different personalities. So I

Caroline Crawford:

had to kind of adapt. And I think that's something that I

Caroline Crawford:

do, I've just always kind of been able to do just for my

Caroline Crawford:

life. But I think I've had to, I've had to take those who are

Caroline Crawford:

younger in their careers and say, and kind of teach them

Caroline Crawford:

essentially basic human principles in my mind, and at

Caroline Crawford:

least the way that I naturally operate. And then, you know, and

Caroline Crawford:

I did this at the beginning, and I do think it helped because I

Caroline Crawford:

never had to do it again is I'd see a response to something and

Caroline Crawford:

I'd say this is how we can take it to the next level in terms of

Caroline Crawford:

how we cater to our clients and really elevating that customer

Caroline Crawford:

experience. So how we just communicate in general. So I

Caroline Crawford:

think there was a lot, there definitely was a certain level

Caroline Crawford:

of training. I wasn't like so nitpicky, but I was like pay

Caroline Crawford:

attention, like when how I learned was I paid attention to

Caroline Crawford:

everyone who was communicating around me. And especially those

Caroline Crawford:

the bosses I had, and how did they communicate? How did you

Caroline Crawford:

know? Some were better than others? And things like that,

Caroline Crawford:

right? So I just absorbed and I also had to find my own way to

Caroline Crawford:

speak to because because there is that level of, you know, yes,

Caroline Crawford:

you want people to be individuals. But if especially

Caroline Crawford:

with a team, you have to have some sort of cohesive, dynamic,

Caroline Crawford:

right. And so there's a little bit of a balance there. But I

Caroline Crawford:

think that's incredibly important. And I think for

Caroline Crawford:

people, especially if you're reaching out to external just to

Caroline Crawford:

speak a little bit broadly, not just team related, related to

Caroline Crawford:

the team, but within this applies to client to audience

Caroline Crawford:

segmentation, essentially, you have to speak in the language

Caroline Crawford:

that people understand. So how I speak to marketers it, or

Caroline Crawford:

solopreneurs, for instance, who are younger, and their business

Caroline Crawford:

is very different than how I'm going to speak to the 30 plus

Caroline Crawford:

year old business see, right? If they and I look at how are what

Caroline Crawford:

are they going through? What's kind of Top of Mind what's sort

Caroline Crawford:

of their purview? So solopreneurs don't have as much

Caroline Crawford:

knowledge, and they're not thinking and it's diff in a

Caroline Crawford:

certain way that, for instance, that 30 plus year old business

Caroline Crawford:

CEO would think that's not to say either one is better than

Caroline Crawford:

the other. Excuse me, it's just different. So just to put it in

Caroline Crawford:

a concrete example, talking to someone who's in corporate, you

Caroline Crawford:

have to think what did they love the most, they love data, they

Caroline Crawford:

love logical explanations, you can't think in a, it's the

Caroline Crawford:

person, not the personal stuff, the emotional stuff is taken out

Caroline Crawford:

of it. Whereas when I'm speaking to a solopreneur, I'm a lot more

Caroline Crawford:

empathetic, I'm a lot more speaking to their person, like,

Caroline Crawford:

what they may be going through personally, I'm still infusing

Caroline Crawford:

that data and that logic, and vice versa, I still apply my

Caroline Crawford:

empathy to that other CEO that has, you know, has been in

Caroline Crawford:

business for 30 plus years. But I just apply it differently. And

Caroline Crawford:

so how I approach them is different, it's a little bit

Caroline Crawford:

more formal or sophisticated, or maybe it's a little bit more of

Caroline Crawford:

it that is totally dependent on the specific person. But I think

Caroline Crawford:

I hope that answers your question in the sense of there

Caroline Crawford:

is this, it doesn't matter the age you are now it matters who

Caroline Crawford:

you're speaking to. And it's always about that sort of client

Caroline Crawford:

first mindset of yes, it won. Can I speak to that person at

Caroline Crawford:

that level? There are some that like, they're like, I don't I

Caroline Crawford:

know, people who are like, I want nothing to do with

Caroline Crawford:

corporate. And they want, they don't talk that way. And that's

Caroline Crawford:

totally okay. And they don't also offer services for that.

Caroline Crawford:

Right. So I think it's just finding that balance and, and

Caroline Crawford:

seeing how can I infuse my personality and still

Caroline Crawford:

communicate authentically, but in a way that they do understand

Caroline Crawford:

in a way that they they can I can find that sort of common

Caroline Crawford:

ground with them. And again, I think, to what you do, right,

Caroline Crawford:

you your focus is helping people see how they can find common

Caroline Crawford:

ground with others. And I think that's so so incredible.

Janice Porter:

Yeah. And, you know, I think the reason that I

Janice Porter:

that I was drawn to you off the bat, Caroline, when we first

Janice Porter:

spoke is that you that you're you do come across as a really

Janice Porter:

good communicator, you're a good listener, you listen, and then

Janice Porter:

you explain Are you you know, you reiterate what someone has

Janice Porter:

said, and I think that as a leader, as a boss, for the

Janice Porter:

people on your team, that's a really good trait. And I think

Janice Porter:

that I'm just concerned that when I talk to a young person

Janice Porter:

who's grown up in this world of looking at their phone, they

Janice Porter:

don't look at anyone in the eye, and they don't really know how

Janice Porter:

to communicate, and I'm generalizing, I get that, but I

Janice Porter:

just thought that, that it was something do you as a, as a

Janice Porter:

boss, look at those traits and whether they'll work for you to

Janice Porter:

for that to send them out as your, you know, your

Janice Porter:

representative of a good communicator, right, because

Janice Porter:

they have to finance so I love that. Thank you so much. Okay,

Janice Porter:

last question about your business. If you could change

Janice Porter:

one thing about the marketing industry, what would it be and

Janice Porter:

why? Ooh,

Caroline Crawford:

that's a great question. I think more

Caroline Crawford:

people need to say no to clients, I think and that's a

Caroline Crawford:

hard one because obviously they want the money. I I've, I've

Caroline Crawford:

been caught in this, this is not I'm like, I'm throwing myself in

Caroline Crawford:

the fire with them. Right? It's so every business owner, I think

Caroline Crawford:

can relate to that sort of sentiment. But the thing that I

Caroline Crawford:

have realized is that marketing, the businesses don't know what

Caroline Crawford:

they don't know. And so they lean on the marketers, and the

Caroline Crawford:

marketers are really good at marketing. And so they may be

Caroline Crawford:

able to accomplish what the business thinks that they need.

Caroline Crawford:

But what happens so often is that when they need it something

Caroline Crawford:

or like their needs evolve, or the second you start doing it,

Caroline Crawford:

some other things on earth, and that's, that's the natural

Caroline Crawford:

evolution. But what starts to happen is you end up becoming in

Caroline Crawford:

this kind of rigid, dynamic, and like I said, if there's a

Caroline Crawford:

disconnect between the company and the agency, a riff starts to

Caroline Crawford:

happen. And so but and I think a lot of the times, it happens

Caroline Crawford:

because the company was not ready for what the agency can

Caroline Crawford:

provide. And so because it mark, a lot of people look at

Caroline Crawford:

marketing, so siloed off, which, again, is why I take that

Caroline Crawford:

integrated approach, because we look at marketing from an entire

Caroline Crawford:

systemic level, we're looking at everything, we're teetering on

Caroline Crawford:

the lines of operations at that point, right. And so, but what

Caroline Crawford:

happens is that you hire an agency that, again, is siloed

Caroline Crawford:

off, they can handle several different services and call

Caroline Crawford:

themselves for full service, there are still gaps in what

Caroline Crawford:

they provide, because they're not looking at it from a sales

Caroline Crawford:

standpoint, they're not looking at it from an operations

Caroline Crawford:

standpoint, how it's impacting the internal team. And I think

Caroline Crawford:

they don't, they don't know, they don't know until they know,

Caroline Crawford:

and neither does the agency sometimes, right? Like they all

Caroline Crawford:

they can do is respond to potential need that they are

Caroline Crawford:

qualified to serve. Respect. Like, again, not, this is the

Caroline Crawford:

situation, but there is a gap in the way support, marketing

Caroline Crawford:

support is delivered. But there's also a gap in the way

Caroline Crawford:

businesses view marketing, they see it siloed off, they see it

Caroline Crawford:

as the bottom of the barrel source for the allocation for

Caroline Crawford:

budget, they have a mistrust in marketing. They just they just

Caroline Crawford:

don't see the value of it, or they don't also see the

Caroline Crawford:

challenge behind

Janice Porter:

it's like a bottomless pit for some people,

Janice Porter:

right. Yes, yes.

Caroline Crawford:

And so you get and that's what starts to

Caroline Crawford:

happen, right? They, they I think you get ad agencies who,

Caroline Crawford:

again, they want the revenue, that person saying, Okay, I'm

Caroline Crawford:

comfortable spending 8k on ads. There's not one sale that came

Caroline Crawford:

from those ads, because that company was not ready. But the

Caroline Crawford:

agency was not saying no to that company. Right.

Janice Porter:

Right. And I'm appalled at how much it costs

Janice Porter:

for, like, online ads and things like that these days. Yes. Yeah.

Caroline Crawford:

And on that no two ads are now becoming more

Caroline Crawford:

accessible. However, you still have to manage the ads. So

Caroline Crawford:

therefore, you have to pay someone to actually do the

Caroline Crawford:

strategy, manage the ads, update the budgets, all of things. But

Caroline Crawford:

then again, what happens is that marketing is very expensive,

Caroline Crawford:

because there's so much that goes into it so many resources.

Caroline Crawford:

You it's very hard to find generalists who can kind of do a

Caroline Crawford:

bunch of different things and mold things together and have it

Caroline Crawford:

be you know, and have it all be connected, which is why it's so

Caroline Crawford:

siloed off. But that is the problem in the industry. And

Janice Porter:

that's not what you do. You like to read

Janice Porter:

everything and take everything into Yes. Love it. Well, okay,

Janice Porter:

so just a couple of quick questions before so one is if

Janice Porter:

today, what's your favorite way to get information? Do you

Janice Porter:

listen to podcasts? Do you read real books? Do you listen to

Janice Porter:

audiobooks? Do you watch videos? What do you do?

Caroline Crawford:

Oh my gosh, I absorb it all I am. I am someone

Caroline Crawford:

that I'm a big self development junkie. So I'll read self

Caroline Crawford:

develop development books and kind of any of that type of

Caroline Crawford:

stuff. I listened I do listen to podcasts, some of which are more

Caroline Crawford:

entertaining than others. Each and then yeah, right but your

Caroline Crawford:

favorite right now I'm I'm really into the here to help pod

Caroline Crawford:

it's it's more of a parody podcast for free advice, but I

Caroline Crawford:

also love smartlace and armchair experts. Those are my favorites.

Janice Porter:

So smartlace and one that you may not be ready

Janice Porter:

for but my other favorite is wiser than me with Julia Louis

Janice Porter:

Dreyfus.

Caroline Crawford:

Oh, no. Okay. Yes, they do know. Yes, of

Caroline Crawford:

course. She

Janice Porter:

interviews women who are wiser than her and older

Janice Porter:

than her. Okay, so there's two seasons she's in second season

Janice Porter:

the first season she starts with Jane Fonda. It's like brilliant.

Janice Porter:

Oh,

Caroline Crawford:

amazing. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, I'll

Caroline Crawford:

definitely check that out. So yeah, I love all those podcasts,

Caroline Crawford:

some of which I liked some more entertaining ones which is the

Caroline Crawford:

word of help once it's not a very serious either way, but I

Caroline Crawford:

do absorb when I'm on social media I'm I follow accounts that

Caroline Crawford:

I can learn from. I also am very observed and just try to absorb

Caroline Crawford:

all the things around me. So I, a lot of the times when I'm

Caroline Crawford:

creating strategies for clients and even for myself, I look for

Caroline Crawford:

inspiration at actually, for companies that are not at all in

Caroline Crawford:

the industry that the client is in but I look to see how I can

Caroline Crawford:

apply it you know, some principles that they do you or

Caroline Crawford:

just kind of study that and stuff like that. So I'm,

Caroline Crawford:

honestly the world is basically how I learn things. And I'm also

Caroline Crawford:

a chronic signer upper a free trial. So I always like to like,

Caroline Crawford:

see what what's happening. What tools can be syndrome

Janice Porter:

a little bit like me a little bit of the squirrel

Janice Porter:

syndrome, right?

Caroline Crawford:

Yes, exactly.

Janice Porter:

Because there's so much out there to learn and

Janice Porter:

know so much out there. You just don't know. You just have

Janice Porter:

sometimes have to stop. That's all. But anyway, so this has

Janice Porter:

been a delight. Thank you so much for the edge effect is

Janice Porter:

Caroline's podcast, you can find it on everywhere you guys. Yep.

Janice Porter:

And cultivate communications. It will be in the show notes. So

Janice Porter:

pay attention to how it's spelled. And go and visit her on

Janice Porter:

her website. Anything else you want to add last words?

Caroline Crawford:

I just want to say thank you so much for

Caroline Crawford:

having me if anyone is like I said, struggling with their

Caroline Crawford:

marketing and just has no idea where to start. Come to us. We

Caroline Crawford:

know exactly how to kind of get you out of that. Overwhelmed,

Caroline Crawford:

stuck feeling. So

Janice Porter:

sounds good. Thank you so much, Caroline. And

Janice Porter:

to my listeners. Thank you again for being here and remember to

Janice Porter:

stay connected and be remembered.

Caroline Crawford:

Thank you Janice.

Unknown:

You're welcome.

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