What are the best ways to build an email list in 2024? What strategies are still relevant? Want to know what's working and what isn't?

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SOME EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS: 

(0:33) Want to carry on with the conversation? Join our FREE Facebook group. 

(1:38) Be a guest expert on other people's podcasts. 

(16:00) Speak in other people's memberships and paid groups. 

(21:17) Speak at live events. 

(29:23) Leverage your social media channels. 

(31:03) Ask people to click on the link in your bio. 

(36:18) Leverage a free Facebook group. 

(42:03) Leverage 'swaps' and affiliates. 

(51:49) Join The Email Hero Blueprint. 

(53:36) Subject lines of the week.

Useful Episode Resources

Related episodes

Landing Pages For Lead Generation – How To Create The Most AMAZING Landing Pages To Attract More Subscribers To Your Email List.

How to Grow your Email List When You Have Less Than 10k Instagram Followers, Helen Perry spills all.

How To Grow Your Email List Using Facebook Pages (Without Ads) – Rachel Miller Moolah Style!

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Join The Email Hero Blueprint 

Want more? Let's say you're a course creator, membership site owner, coach, author, or expert and want to learn about the ethical psychology-based email marketing that turns 60-80% more of your newsletter subscribers into customers (within 60 days). If that's you, then The Email Hero Blueprint is for you.

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Unknown 0:18

Unknown 0:29

Gather round heroes. This is the new email marketing show with Kennedy and Perry tune in each week and learn the email campaign strategy and what's working right now to make more sales from that email list of yours.

Unknown 0:44

Unknown 1:10

Unknown 1:25

currently from email marketing heroes, and this week I cut my cheek shaving for the first time in my life. I'm nearly 40 years old have never done that basically in Newcastle upon Tyne in the Northeast of England.

Unknown 1:35

Alright, so Kennedy, we get the question a lot. What's working to build the email list? Does this still work? Does that work? what's trendy? What's happening now? What are all the cool kids doing to build their lists? So let's just jump right into it. I want to start with my favourite, which is leveraging other people's audiences speaking on their podcast speaking on their podcast now don't get it twisted. I'm not talking about having your own podcast which is also a good idea but you will grow your audience faster. Get them on your list when you fish in a pond that's already been stocked. Okay, so who has an audience that would benefit from you? And how do you get in front of them? So speaking on other people's podcast, being a professional guest expert, and I'll just say full disclosure, I've never had the discipline to do my own podcast. It's never been something I wanted to do, but I'm a great guest for other people. And that has grown and grown and grown and grown my audience. The key is not just to be on there not just to say, hey, I can speak about anything and everything but have a couple of interesting hooks that get their attention. Also to find a way to get them in your boat, right? If we're talking about fishing, what's the bait you have to have a strong call to action, a checklist a cheat sheet, something they can give you their email for some people will say, Oh, you have to have a good freebie. I don't like to call it a freebie because it's currency. You're gonna get paid with their data. So what can you get while you're speaking on that certain subject and make sure what you're talking about lends to what your business is about. But

Unknown 3:01

also a mistake I've definitely made like in the early days of like getting other people's podcasts. I was like, hey, I'll talk about anything. We were like, Oh, you're really good. Like your time management's amazing. We can talk about that. And I would show up and go, This is my morning routine. And this is how I set myself up for the day. And that wasn't helpful in moving people to my audience, because they're like, oh, have you got a time manager programme? I'm like, No, I see. My marketing. And you know what sometimes will happen and I think one of the things that we all have to get good at here is being a great guest in spite of the host because not everybody is a great host. Not everybody is good at that. So you have to be a great guest in spite of the host whatever happens with it, however good the host days of being a host, they might have a loyal audience who loves them, but it doesn't mean they're gonna be great at hosting guests on their podcast. So one of the things we have to do is like, for example, there was a podcast I was on, like years and years and years ago now, and they want it and my business was about email marketing. And all they wanted to talk for the first like 20 minutes of a segment interview was my career as a performer and how I ended my and what did I do in the past and I was like, this is not serving me as well. I'm thinking internally, so all I did was started moving the conversation and actually help them direct the conversation because it might have been the fact that if someone's not a very good interviewer, it might be that they they've actually got themselves stuck in a loop and the like, how the hell do I handbrake turn out of? We're talking about this topic what you've accidentally ended up stalking, but how do I move it on the topic that I know we're supposed to talk about is actually gonna help my audience. So if you're able to spot an opportunity to do that, while they're sort of pedalling in their minds themselves? How do I do this? Because I think about all the things I'm doing as a host, right? You can give them that, that that way through and all I would do, if you end up in that position, I don't give you the problem and not give the solution today, folks. So one things I do is I'll start relating their question to my topic. A politician will be like that wasn't political politician answers, right. So they'll say okay, so used to be a full time performer. So how were you able to like how you would have the confidence to go on stage and be like, you know, having confidence in anything boils down to two things. One, it boils down to knowing what you're going to do. And secondly, it boils down to the number of reps you had in the past. It's a bit like the first time you send an email out, you're like, Oh, my God, I don't even know what I'm doing. And then after that, because you look about offered a load of emails, but then things blew up. People didn't hate me, and now the host because he then relieved going. Now we're talking about emails, thank God for that. So you're able to just take that the base of what they've sort of trapped in and if it's not serving you or the host, move it on to a different discussions. So being really good in spite of the host important the other day, and I'm curious to hear what your thoughts are on this, Gary, how would you go about what's your approach to identifying which podcasts you should be on?

Unknown 5:17

That's a good question, because a lot of people get stuck into that, oh, I need to be on the big ones. Go after Lewis Howes. I need to go after Amy Porterfield. I need to go after know, first of all, does that person have an audience that's primarily made up of people that are your audience, your type of audience? Let's use Louis as an example. Louis has you know destined for greatness? It's big. It's generalist. I would also say probably age 40s and under primarily male if I have a midlife topic, like, you know, one of my topics is the million dollar midlife. And so if I'm gonna pitch that, like, that's not Louis's audience, listen, I have friends. I actually lose his first coach, and he's got a big reach, but is it a reach that's useful for me? Not really. So it's kind of silly. So it'd be it's actually better and you have more engaged audiences typically when you go for the mid level or the lower amounts of the rabid audiences is what I'm saying and people that are super fans of smaller things, but you first decide by the audience, not the host. Please don't be starstruck. Please don't be starstruck. Think of who their audience is. And if that audience is a really good fit for you, and then start there. The other thing is, are they you know, a really engaged audience. So I would say probably the Kelsey brothers, they have the number one podcast in the world right now, from what I understand, and they're super fun. They're really engaging. Is their audience a call to action audience though? Do they buy do they go do or are they an entertainment, primarily podcasts? They are a foreign numbers podcast, rightfully so sponsorship deals, clicks, traffic, those kind of things. That's not probably who you want. The audience that we're talking to right now. You guys are business owners, and you want people that are going to move to action to something else. So I would say just be really mindful of that. Also in line with what you said, be willing to rescue the interviewer. You also have to make it easy for them to say yes to you. So to really, you know, Hot Titles and hooks that point directly to something useful for their audience, not something that they talk about all the time, but something useful and unique to their audience.

Unknown 7:07

I mean, how many times do we get pitched on? Hey, can I be a guest on the Email Marketing Show? I would love to talk about why email marketing is important for businesses looking weak like we don't have that.

Unknown 7:16

So make it easy for them to say yes, absolutely. But

Unknown 7:19

carry having specific talks like even if I was to go to a general business or marketing podcast, you've got business that gives them macro category, you've got marketing as the next one down. I'm still not gonna pitch Hey mentor by email marketing, because they've definitely talked about email marketing before. Whereas if I show up in my pitches, hey, I'm going to share with your audience the structure of the one welcome email they need which is going to XYZ, how to send an email every single day when I'm driving your audience. That's what I'm doing and saying yourself, having a specific topic within and pitch two or three things because then you can say hey, I can come and talk about these topics. And the question you're asking in the pitch email is which one would be most suitable? It's the kind of either all kinds of sales techniques

Unknown 7:54

or Yes, it's the yes or the yes, that's exactly what it is. Also, it needs to be interesting. You know, for our work week was a best seller for a reason like it got our attention. I was talking with a client about a year and a half ago. He does wealth management, yawn. Snooze, right and and his clients and potential clients are seven, eight figure nine figure business owners and so he was pitching podcasts on Oh, I can talk about anything related to entrepreneurs and finance, etc, etc. as well. This is why nobody's booking you. Yeah, yawn. So instead, we came up with two topics and one was I said, Here's what I would look like if you said to me, why am I rich but broke rich but broke why more revenue isn't always the answer the secrets that the truly wealthy really know that you know, the book The Millionaire Next Door, which Yeah, so rich, but broke how many people you and I know so many business owners that are rich but broke right they can't like they're super stressed out? Anyway. So you have to think of like a super hot hook. And here's another secret is your content is your content is your content, your content, you don't have to create new content for every podcast, you you create a couple of hooks, but really what you're talking about what you're talking about you and I could create 15 hooks for why campaigns are essential and it's absolutely sounds like different topics.

Unknown 9:01

Here's the thing I really liked we've talked about this before we hit record on is that today's episode was if you're in the beginning phase of figuring out what are the hooks that really get people to pick up areas and pay attention lean into you guessed podcasting on other people's podcasts is the best way of testing that out. When I started this business. We had no budget we had nothing for ads. We didn't already know how to communicate the importance of the hooks and angles. We didn't even have most of the frameworks or the metaphors, every framework that we teach now, inside of email hero blueprint without email marketing heroes, audience, every single framework you hear us talk about was developed in conversation. There are very few of them. I sat and strategize and wrote on a doodlee pad. Very, very few of them. Most of them are like me trying to explain a point to a host. And if you know them about the idea of train carriages that I've often talked about, that was in a conversation with someone Someone asked me on a podcast, how do all these campaigns fit together? I know how they fit together but I didn't have a metaphor and have a really good way to spy on that. That came through talking about it, the more you talk about it. So again, if you're still like, I'm too early, I don't have my hooks. I don't have my my frameworks. So I can't be a guest on the podcast. This is the time you should because you get to go through this and I'm talking I must have done 300 Maybe more podcast guest episodes on other people's podcasts over the last couple of years easily, easily. So that's what I'm gonna be doing before we move on to the next tip because we are going to do this we are going to be a bit briefer on the other ones but to make sure this is not like a seven hour episode.

Yeah, but there's some overlap some of these principles we're gonna apply to numbers two through seven.

Absolutely, absolutely. But one of the things I love that you and I were discussing was when you've been um, definitely that we haven't done this yet. I'm definitely going to do this right. When you've been a guest on other people's podcasts. Yeah, this is cool, isn't it? You're gonna go create your own playlist on Spotify and other platforms right? Of all of the shows you've been a guest on it okay, if some of them you went so hard to do having a bit of a shitty day are you sort of right that wasn't really very good. Don't include it of course, but but now you can if people are thinking about having you on their show you can say here's a playlist of all the shows I've been on and they just by seeing a playlist of your name next to all, oh, it'd be on these podcasts. And even if they're not famous ones, the quantity of these people shows that you're experienced as a guest because I can tell you now, as someone who was interviewed as a host on a show, lots of guests there are good guests there are great Yes, there are terrible guests. And you want to make sure that when we're attracting people in we're reducing the risk of recording a dud episode. We don't want to do that.

Yeah. And that's something I heard somebody mentioned recently. And that's why we talked about it when they said, Oh, we also have a Spotify list of stuff we've tested on for years when people have said to me, Oh, I can't afford this or do you have any examples of you speaking or blah, blah, blah, I would just say if you'll Google my name, and the word podcast, or Google my name and YouTube, you'll find all my free resources. I would love to coach you that way until something else was possible blah, blah, blah. But also what I found out is a lot of people were bugging me to speak because of my sheer body of work that was around they want to know you can string sentences together, etc. But here's another ninja tip and let me coach everybody for a minute. Here's a ninja tip once you create that Spotify playlist, also put it in your own email sequence and part of your super signature or in part of your getting to know you sequence because it's also Authority building with your own potential clients. It helps them bend you and what we know is that vendors are buyers so Oh, yeah,

yeah. You just made me think because while you're gonna be things to other places, you could put this playlist. One would be if you have an application form as part where you have like a place where they don't meet the criteria for whatever whatever reason, part of that No, could be bad, but by the way, pretty much what you said, Carrie, hey, go check out these resources because the more people listen to you, the better the other places, if you have an expiry page when your offers have expired, like what I recommend everybody do is have a singular expiry page that once an offer expires, you send them to that rather having lots of expiring pages, one for each offer. Just have a centralised one that you always use. And again, be like hey, here's some other things you could buy from us but also, if you want some other free stuff, here's my Spotify playlist. You

know what else to other places? Look at us, just like we could spend the whole episode just on this, but two other places you could put that would be on your unsubscribe page, and also on your 4040 That's

cool. That's cool. I love that. I love that. That's really awesome. That's really cool. I love it. Your folks love it.

So we're both taking notes because we're both about to implement the

follow up I'll just get together and chat Well, like I hadn't thought before know when I was creating stuff I just you know, which is why I'm loving doing the show with you. So let's get into some more. So we've reset the frame with how these things get applied. You can apply a lot of that to these other things. The second one and this was huge. This has been huge for me, and email marketing heroes was speaking in other people's paid groups did test going and speaking in their freedoms like they have free Facebook groups and conversions on those the attention and the level of gravitas that was have wasn't worth it for us worth testing. By the way it's worth testing that might be for you. I would never say don't do anything but in that paid groups I'm talking about in their masterminds online and offline presentations. In the membership to a guest training. Now again, you just want to let people know that there is some way that they can connect with you. And you want to maybe mention that at the beginning. I highly recommend you do mention at the beginning like hey, I'm from this resource on this website and again at the end if people want to hear from you. So again, same way you would research which podcast you should be on, go and research other people's communities that are paid, approach them and say, Hey, he has a really, really specific topic that I can help your audience with. Would that be interesting? Oh, he has a couple of topics with with either of these be interesting on which one of these would be interesting. The great thing is those groups are full of people who already have proven that they like to invest in learning about a related topic. These are not people who are just listening to podcasts and just looking at free content on YouTube. And just Alan reviews, these are people who see that this topic you're talking about it's so valuable to them right now. They are willing to invest or as I like to call it, they've got a credit card and they know how to use it

and they're not afraid of buying online and they trust the person that they've already paid. And here's the thing about human psychology, which is ironic me telling you about human psychology. But here's the thing about human psychology is we love to prove ourselves, right? So if I say I'm already paying Kennedy, and Kennedy endorses Kerry, I like to be right and affirm how much I trust Kennedy. And so therefore, I'm also going to trust Kerry. It's really very powerful. But here's what I hear people in the audience already say in Kennedy is Oh, but how will people know how do I pitch these people? How do I get on with these people? Let's go back to point one being on people's podcasts. You can do direct outreach. But here's one thing I can promise you you're not doing humans. Listen closely to your your new favourite business coach. I'm going to tell you, it's not in the Ps of your emails. People don't know that you're doing this. People don't know that you're speaking you're not mentioning it in your emails. You're not mentioning it on your socials. And so here's how you do one of your PS on your signature line or your social posts and it has to be periodically when your mouth is open. Your business is open. You have to say I've got two killer talks on this title and this title. Do you or someone you know have a paid membership and you need a week off? Or you need an extra module on blah, blah, blah, I would love to chat with you about that possibility who do you know, tax compensate, you know, bah, bah, bah.

circulate that. Yeah. And I think you could even be more indirect if you can do definitely want you to direct campaigns around what you just said. But I think you could also every time you give a guest training, get a selfie about trading. Take a screenshot of the Zoom Room when everyone's having a great time and or even have the comments people are going absolutely ballistic about how fantastic you are and go and put on social that's what I did. Wow, we had such a good time training for x y Zed Company X Y Zed group. That was fun. Watching this other people always DM you going, could you do for me how much is I don't like it. When you go. Do you know what it is for you? It's free because I can get other value from it. And the other way you can do it is you can you can say to people you can like put like a basic Legion post. So rather than being as explicit, as you were saying, Carrie, one of the things I did was I knew I wanted to talk to other people's memberships who were about business and marketing. Yes. So I put into our existing community. Who Who else's community are you a member of Yes. So I just want to know who they are. And because there's no point in you go and say, hey, I want to be on any particular podcast, I wanted to attend Amy Porterfield. If for some whatever reason, none of our customers or none of our audience are even in her world. Whereas if I find out they're in somebody else's world I've never even heard of because a lot of coaches and all of our spaces that we're getting, we're going to head to the heads up about them and they usually being tagged as well without even having to ask. So speaking it was groups massively valuable, massively valuable. Yeah. Now this next one, sorry, go ahead.

Before we do that, I need to I need to adjust some thinking on something. Let me coach you for a minute because you just said I'm going to speak free for you for you. It's gonna be free. We don't ever speak for free for you. I'm going to speak in exchange for and then you create a different currency so I'm going to speak but here's here are my requirements. My requirements are I need a copy of the raw footage that I can also use for myself. I would also love a post that you do social proof posts that you do have as you know, a testimonial and then also the ability to point people towards lead generation, like just just know what your currency is because we don't speak for free. We don't speak for free otherwise, we're a busker. You know, otherwise, we're just hoping somebody drops a quarter in our cup and I just I really want to change your brain about not you personally, but that's a really good I love that. I love that. And that makes you a paid speaker that makes you a paid speaker. So, so live events. Let's talk about that. Yeah,

this is your special I've done a lot of it, but I don't, it's not my entire world and you've made a career for a while speaking at live events. So let me Intro This speaking at live events onstage in front of people. When people can really see you in real life and you're no longer just a head and shoulders on the internet and they can see how tall you are. What your shoes look like. And they can even see you around the coffee table during the breaks. If that's possible. You are way more trustworthy and you have their attention in a way that they're generally not, you know, dealing with feeding the dog during the web I once had during an online talk. I was given Carrie I once had. I was giving a talk it was really great read, but they're supposed to have their camera on and they were shaving their head. The person was having a shave while I'm talking. That's never happened in real life in person event, I've done something because that'd be really funny. Maybe

you just haven't done enough of them. A lot of people will say, say Oh, I just want to be alive speaker right? How dare you. How did you get started? Blah blah. Ironically, I got started by number one or number two, like I my goal was never to be onstage speaker Believe it or not. I was doing BlogTalkRadio back in the day with other people. I was on their free conference call.com You know, teleconferences in their paid memberships. And people called me and said we probably can't afford you but would you come speak to us live? And I was like, people I've been told my whole life to shut up and people are about to pay me to make some money. So so that was very exciting. Very, very exciting. But But again, like I mentioned a minute ago, you always have to have a currency a lot of times we get sucked into Oh, I'm going to speak and I'm gonna be so important and obvious liberty, I'll just go to it for exposure. Well exposure just means your neck and freezing. It does not pay your bills. You have to develop. You have to develop what the currencies are that are acceptable for you. And so speaking at live events is really great. And I you know, now what I say is I'm a specialist in high energy mega audiences. I prefer to 1000 or more people in the audience when I speak, and I can promise you, I'm getting paid in multiple ways.

I'll say by everyone who just heard you say of tooth that you know, 2000 plus mega audiences. I mean, I don't know about everybody else. But like, that sounds terrifying to me, but it's what

you're doing right now. Totally. And so why does it matter if they're in person or if they're behind the screen? I mean, that's just I

told her as a person who's entertain audiences like 600 I'm cool. 1000 I'm good. 2000 When I can't see the whites of every single person's I guess the same as now. Yeah. But for most for a lot of people that idea of being in the room and hearing their breath.

Well, you know, I love a bigger audience. It's all just the collective audience to me, but here's a it's a mindset shift. So let me just tell you about a funny conversation with my 20 year old this last week because I typically will hire one of my kids to go with my plus one number one so they can see me work number two, so they can help me work number three, so they can themselves work anyway. So she said, Okay, what's our audience like mom and I was telling her about this one that I just got a contract for blah, blah, and, and suddenly my highest keynote fee ever and and so we were talking about it, and she said, how many and I said, Well, it's just 4000 this time, blah, blah, blah. And I kept going, and she said, Well, Mom, it's okay, I bet some of those bigger ones will call later this year, like, like, Oh, Mom, I'm sorry,

that's shoes too tight.

But here's the thing, speaking at live events makes you an instant celebrity with those people in that audience. Part of how you get paid is in content, like the pictures I don't have to sell myself. As a speaker because I've got arena pictures right I've got paparazzi pictures, it's fine. Some people don't even care what I'm talking about. There's like Oh, we didn't have her because she did that. Speaking at live events can grow your list because why? Well, number one, you're going to talk about your socials number two, you're going to offer them something of value they can get on screen, you know, so something on your slides that leads them to a generation lead generation page. Yes, even if you're getting paid to speak there, you still want to be able to follow up with them after because you're probably not the only speaker and they're probably distracted or whatever in the bathroom or on a break or at the bar or whatever. You still need a way to follow up with people. So my only caution about that is if you're a paid keynote speaker like me, sometimes the audience's I speak to are not the same as what my online products are. So

it's basically no you don't have a product to upsell you want to basically think of speech as the product

is the marketing right? So what I know is that depending on who the audience is, sometimes my keynote fee is way more expensive because I know that's where the the engagement is.

If you'll think in your head, okay, I want to be worth 10 grand but don't because a number of you have to have a number yes 10 grand sometimes five grand of that might be in money and the other five grand might be in leads, photography footage, whatever. So that's why I always used to teach other entertainers as well. If you're gonna go into a gig, think about your fame, it's 10 grand, you need to get 10 grands worth of value. And some of that value might be in money in actual payment. And some of it might be in other things. Sometimes it'll be an all in money, which is great.

Yeah, which is fine, too. You just have to know but yes, you can absolutely build your list. And that can be your compensation if you go for lead gen or to sell from the stage, but make sure it's a good audience match and you're not speaking for your ego or for vanity because ego doesn't scale right? ego doesn't scale and it doesn't matter. So some of the forms of compensation are you know, contract you're gonna sell from stage cash is just gonna pay me enough just to show up and be there or it's going to be content because maybe I'm new and I need this picture blah blah blah sometimes

you think Hey, actually, I want to deliver this as a bonus so look more value optimist before Well, I'm like, I need to buy your bonus for this other course I'm putting together to make it not affected another course that's the bonus. I want this talk to be live from this really cool room. So I'm going to do it as that. So really think about getting more value out of the things what we're saying, right? Yeah, so

I have a funny story about that old school story is that I was speaking in Boston at a small event several years ago, several like 15 years ago, and they said could you do a section over lunch? We have a lot of people your talks create a lot of questions about social media that tells you how long ago it was. And so could you just chat with them over lunch about XYZ how to leverage social media? I'm like, Sure, absolutely. So I got out my little handheld digital recorder. It's before our phones did everything. I got out the handheld digital recorder tucked it into my shirt, gave that talk. Then afterwards, I used that audio recording from my shirt as a lead gen. Last count that I saw before I take it down. I had built like 17,000 leads based on that content that I created at that event over lunchtime on a spur of the moment talk. So speaking at live events is great, the energy is good, the energy is different, and it can be a really powerful way because it's basically like them having binged hours on your YouTube. You have immediate credibility. They have to wonder if you exist because you're right there. They don't have to wonder if other people are affirming you because you've been hired to be there and elevated because of the stage. So it really is a perfect storm of good ways to build your list except that you just need to make sure it's the people that you want on your list. Yeah,

that's really important is really important. So we can talk about live events, we probably will do a full episode on that at some point we need to do one. So we're gonna crack on number four of seven. Holy moly number four of seven. Seven Ways people dream list probably four is your content on your socials. So really briefly, if you're really good at social media, if that is your skill, then you can be doing lines, you can be doing reels, but make sure within those things where you're showing your expertise, sharing a little tip or sharing a little bit of actionable content or thought provoking content, sharing some value, but then make sure you also give some kind of call to action and tell me what to do next. What is the next step? So you might share a little tip about your topic and they say if you want to learn more about this, go check out go and opt in. And remember what's really nice is going from a free platform, which is algorithm based, let's just say it's Instagram, getting people to move from that strain to buying while possible. There are some people who are amazing at that. It's way easier for most of us mere mortals to get them to go from watching free content that they weren't expecting to show up because it's on the algorithm and just scrolling to a free lead magnet, which is again, building that email list and moving people from socials into radio a few different ways your call to action could be go check out the Lincoln bio, which we'll talk about in a second. The other call of action which is very common right now is comment the word bananas or whatever something that's relevant to to your to the topic below and I'll DM you the information so you can use bots, many chat that kind of thing to have people automatically you have when people drop a certain word of certain keyword in the comments below your video. It will DM them and follow up with them and get them onto your list. So content on social media and one of the things you're huge on though Carrie is moving people to the Lincoln bio and that's on number five on our list.

Yes so I think talking about content on your socials we really need to focus on getting them to a point where they are saying to you tell me more. Tell me more not tell me more. Nobody wants to be sold more. We do love to buy but we don't like to be sold to So tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more but too many of us are using our socials and getting friendzone because we're just being the best friend we're casting ourself as the best friend and I say this from experience for years and years years I was the Meg Ryan when really what you want to be is the Nicole Kidman right everybody wants to hang out with Meg and they want to date Nicole so so that being said, you have to make sure you're not just posting cuz they're like, oh yay, there's Carrie instead. It's uh, here's what's next Tell me more. Tell me more. Tell me more like the grease on Lincoln bio though. If the link in your bio goes to your web page. Stop that mess right now. If the link in your bio goes to somebody else's page, stop that mess right now. It needs to go to a link tree or to a specific lead gen page. When I say link tree I don't mean the service. I mean something where they're going to decision pages. I call these decision pages. I want to yes or no. Next, right if they go to your web page and they click around and they get distracted number one you don't know they were there. Number two, you can't follow up with them. Number three, they get overwhelmed. Number four, the next cat video or coffee video or political video distracts them and they leave. If they go to a decision page. All they have to think is Yes or No. Give me the deed

with ease. It's actually those third party services which are like the link tree service. You don't need to have that. First of all, there's usually a banner on the bottom advertising link to a lot of different ones with these right and the banner along the bottom advertising that service which means you are leaking your leads through to them when they like oh I really want to pay it looks like this. And now that you've lost them, you don't need to have that you have to pay for that service. Use the landing page builder you already used to build your opt in pages lead pages, your sales pages. That's what that's what we've done. Yeah, we have a simple mobile first designed landing page which is just a bunch of primary links. And also right on there. We have an opt in form right on that thing. So you're going to click a thing. It's right there. Give us your name and email just send me this really cool thing or get on newsletter or something and we like to podcast you can link to your automated webinar or your live webinar. You can have a lead magnet on there. You can have a one of the links could even be to your if you want to skip the cube and jump straight to the most the best help you can give them your paid programme then they could go and jump to that so we want to give people those options right there now but just use your landing page builder to do it.

Yeah, and since everybody listening is already building their email list in some way, shape or form. Please for the love Don't overthink this, just send them to something you already have built until you build something else. Yeah, stop overthinking it, stop over researching it stop thinking you have to optimise it stop compiling a folder of the best opt in pages that you've seen. Don't go look at 10 influencers and see what their LinkedIn bio is. Stop it. This is why you're not making more progress. What I'm going to say is just put up one opt in form and if you do a link tree or link page, every button they push should go to an opt in form. I disagree that you should lead them to a sales page. If you're leading. It should be a two step sales page because I want to recognise that the most valuable thing to me right now. Stop being busy doing nothing. point them to the email bio. You know why? Because we're nosy. We're nosy and if I see a piece of content if if Kennedy scrolls by in my feed, and I the first place I go is to his profile. And so then where do I go research? Oh look, it's an opt in page. Oh, that looks interesting. Let me get this checklist. Even if I only have three seconds. I can always come back to that later. I can come back to that later if they save your video or save your Tiktok or save your whatever they may not come back later. How many saved things do you guys have on Tiktok Instagram or Facebook right now that you never ever go back to again.

I have never I don't even know where to go to look at the same stuff. I've struggled with recipes. Mostly,

we say that it benefits the Creator, not the consumer. So what if you really want to serve more people? If you really want to help your audience, you are going to follow up with them and we need to stop dating casually and we need to start moving people into relationship. And the way you move people into relationship is you get their details. That's how you get paid. They're not freebies they're transactions, do the link in your bio. This applies to point number 123 and four your link in your bio should be working for you. I don't care how much you paid for your pretty website that you spent too long on. I don't care how gorgeous your speaker real video is. I don't care about your VSL I don't we want their email, otherwise we cannot follow up with them. Period, end of story stuff that mess up. Okay, now this is one that we disagree on. I say disagree. This is one we have different preferences about this is one of Kennedy's favourite. This is one I no longer leverage. It doesn't mean it's not good. You know what I mean? Can I pause for a coaching moment?

Oh, here we go. Okay, I'm gonna sit down and because stuff I was gonna

note, I'm not coaching you on this. What I'm saying? If I'm looking coach, I meant to start this way. I meant to start this way and say please, for the love Do not think you have to do all of these things or even more than one of these things. Please pick one thing to focus on the fastest when and when you should be doing right now while you're still listening unless you're driving is your like in your bio should already be changed. What are you waiting for? Stop it. Go do it right now. But don't focus on all of these things. Don't say oh Kennedy said I have to do this series that I have to do that. You don't have to do all of them. You asked us what's working. This is what's working. Pick one focus on one to mastery finish something for Pete's sake and then move to something different or optimise the one thing so this is one thing that we do differently. I do not leverage this method because of personal preferences which we can talk about if we get time but anyway, Kennedy loves this one. And it's the free Facebook group, working famously for Kennedy. Let's talk about that. Yeah, I mean, it was one of the very when I was looking at how to grow the podcast, actually this exact show, I was looking at different ways of doing that. And one of things that came up was a free Facebook group. So I started going down to the sort of that way on that. And what's really nice about having a free Facebook group is one, you can use it as a really good lead magnet weirdly for the other things we've talked about. So when you're speaking on other people's podcasts, on stages, live events, on your socials. You can tell people during your own podcasts like we do, we can mention the free Facebook group, and it is the lowest resistance lead magnet I have ever ever seen. Because people feel like it's not as big a commitment as going for an opt in right, a vote when they join your Facebook group. You weren't going to ask them if they would like to it's optional, give you their email address. So we're generating leads through that and we generate leads every single day multiple leads every single day through that fake Facebook group. But what's really nice is as well as you driving people to a if you work on making sure that group is engaged. Facebook goes oh, this is a place that keeps people on the platform. What does Facebook want? It wants to keep people on the platform. So you're not working against the algorithm. You're feeding the algorithm exactly what it wants. You're keeping people on platform. So what is it going to do? It then starts recommending your group to other people who it thinks will join the group or similar the types of people in your group. And so having a free Facebook group, setting it up and just make sure it's got a good name, which has the kind of thing your audience is going to search for because people do search on Facebook groups about that topic and getting people into those Facebook groups. So having a free Facebook group has worked well have I sometimes wanted to like shut the whole thing down and burn it. Yes, because I've been burned out. But that's okay. We can go with the different seasons the different feelings that we have at different times. But having a free Facebook group is a great way of not only building your email list, but if you put engagement content in there, you can understand your audience really well because you can ask questions, find out what their big problems are. So you can create products or services or even free gifts that will actually help them and that they'll actually want. You can also find out what's really a problem that everyone keeps talking about so you can create solutions for that. So it also creates this idea of community that you're not this sort of faceless person who just sends them emails who just is on that webinar. So yeah, I love a free Facebook group.

Unknown 2:30

What I love about it, what I do love it, I'm not against them. I don't use it for myself. What I do love about it. It's it's a really low lift. There's no cost involved. You can start yours today as soon as you go change the link and all your BIOS literally start went today. You know it does require some care and nurturing one of the reasons it does not suit my style or my lifestyle is because of all the audiences I speak to it would be too all over the place. That happened to me before with my email list as well as all my social and community also because of the age and stage I am and I am also an empath you have to know yourself. I'm an empath. I'm an HSP highly sensitive person. And I have four children we deal with, you know, some mental health issues in the family. I had to know when I was being pulled at too much. And so engagement and community is something that I cut strategically so that I could control it in different ways I needed you know I needed different things on my terms but again, I have over 20 years with my audience and I've had an active email list since then. So I think you just have to know yourself but I do love the low cost low lift low technology. I love that there's 7 billion people there I mean, I mean 7 million people there billion I don't even know So third largest country.

Unknown 3:55

Seven people are on there. At least seven

Unknown 3:57

at least seven of your avatar are on there no matter if you think they're on Facebook or not. They are I can promise you they are so that's that's a good thing about Facebook group. It does require some care and nurturing you don't plant your lawn once and the grass continues to grow. You have to water you have to fertilise you have to weed it. And those are all things that you're going to have to do in your Facebook group. So also I think it's really how most helpful if you have a specific angle of your group, right a specific angle and you have to have questions don't have a free public group have questions filter them as they come in, get their email as they come in. Those are always going to be your best people but let's move to the next thing if you feel like we flesh that out. Let's talk about affiliates. Now I think a lot of people want to skip to this because they feel like this is a shortcut. They feel like this is a miracle thing. They're believing all the hype they're seeing online but let's talk about the pros and cons of having an affiliate to grow your list bear.

Unknown 4:54

Yeah, absolutely. I mean by affiliate what we mean is some other people who have got an audience who are who would be interested in what it is that you do they go tell their audience about what it is in exchange for something. And that could be a literally straight swap. So when I was only when I have my one of my very first online businesses was when I was inventing and selling magic tricks to magicians, and in that world there was no such thing as proper, like paid affiliates. So when I launched my book, what I did is I when I was doing I was launching it, I would go to other people who I knew had released books recently. And I would tell them, I would promote their book to my list. Because I knew at later when I said to them, Hey, and I didn't want I didn't want any money for doing it. I just want to tell people about your amazing new trick or book or whatever it's going to be. But then I knew that later on when I launched my book all of those people will be mailing their list about it. So this was just a straight swap. You see these people do and like they do swaps where we'll we'll do a collaboration on our Instagram or we will do Facebook group Facebook Live swatter swaps. We'll do it in each other's Facebook groups or Facebook pages. This is just straight swap out. Talk to your audience. You talk to my audience, everybody's happy. You can be as simple as that, oh, you could go more commercial quote unquote, proper affiliate stuff, which is where, hey, if you want to throw up my offer, I'll give you a percentage of the sale. So it might be 20% might be 50. In some cases. It might be 100% I've even seen 150% of the sale because you know what your back end is. And then of course I have seen people where they pay their affiliates per lead that they get them for free. So Hey Mister, mister or missus affiliate. Will you please tell your audience about my free lead magnet? I'll pay you $1 For every person who signs up to my email list. If the thing is with affiliate stuff, you have to know your numbers. If you don't know your back end numbers, you can end up giving away the farm and going out of business. Even if you're giving away 50% to affiliates. By the time you factor in the time to approach affiliates, the payout of affiliates refunds and rebuilds, like all of this stuff. You want to make sure that you're not putting yourself at risk. Okay. So and again the the problem with affiliates is that can be in some industries, an expectation of you promote me, I'll promote you. That doesn't always work because sometimes you will have something which is appropriate for their audience. But what they are selling right now doesn't really fit for you. So be very firm about the fact that this is not a automatic reciprocal promotions that uation if it's a fit at the time, I'll do it. But I just want to make sure that we set up from the very beginning. Yeah,

Unknown 7:35

and again, when you're looking at low lift low technology, or you're just starting out or you're waiting in I do love just swaps. So I like Facebook Live swaps. Like hey Kennedy Can I come into your free group and do a Facebook Live and then you can go on my Facebook page and do a live and we'll just chat about our thing. No strings, no tracking, no whatever. You know, I think where people get caught up is back to when we talked about being starstruck about podcast. I think people say well, but I don't want to ask Kennedy to Mel for me because his list may not be the same size as my list or my list isn't big enough or, you know, people that have lists arrogance or snobbery. You know, I would say some of the smaller lists or Facebook groups or audiences have a higher engagement and higher involvement and higher credibility of their authority than others do. And also you can't underestimate the fact that it only takes one of the right people to hear you at the right time. We talked about this in the planning session. I was on Periscope for approximately five minutes when that was a platform I

Unknown 8:48

thought about but I never did you mean Did you ever have a clubhouse account? I never did. I never

Unknown 8:52

I never went to clubhouse. I always just go get my name so that somebody else isn't broadcasting in my name, but I went to Periscope for about five minutes. And I did a training series for two days, like 30 minutes or whatever. Anyway, I think it was talking about Brad, one of my acronyms for something foundational anyway. I didn't know the people that were there. I didn't put a lot of effort into promoting it. But one of the people in the audience was a CEO of a billion dollar company that happens to be in one of my target markets for audiences. They asked somebody in the audience who was a super fan of mine, like do you know how to get in touch with Carrie I would like to go directly to her within two days. I got a cell phone call from this CEO saying wow, I'm in Vegas. Can I fly you to Vegas? While I'm here? I would love for you to do a live stream to my audience. She didn't say what would you teach? Bah bah bah. She'd already seen me in action surely see me? Can you come teach that to my audience on my company sponsored live stream I'd love to talk to you about doing our convention of 15,000 people. Wow. So she flew me out to Vegas within a couple of days. I flew out there we had lunch, literally met her walked onto her live stream within 30 minutes to her entire company because of the trust she had already felt and seen with the audience. Got off of that and she said how do I hire you to speak at my conference? And I said actually, that's not how I like to work. I said the truth is from what I understand the company is going through right now and bla bla bla bla bla bla I prefer like a 15 to 18 month runway where I partner with you. I don't like to be a hit and run Speaker I like to be a partner with speaker and look at growth and coaching and leadership etc. She said how much is that going to cost me I told her she agreed like that. And one of those moments I went dang it. I should have said double. I should have said double Reva Yeah, and I said that out loud. And she said You're right. I paid it. So So learned a few lessons but essentially that turned into 15 months, multiple six figures, because I was on Periscope with just a casual audience but the right person was there. So all that to say please stop dismissing smaller audiences because you never know who's there. You are not an A list celebrity, get over yourself and quit thinking that it has to be big numbers. It just has to be the right people. And you don't know

these platforms. They have to just be the right audience. Like just a quick example. For example, when I do an affiliate promo very rarely, but sometimes I'll have I'll promote somebody else's offer. Yeah, I usually I will almost always get a message from the Creator saying how the hell you do and there's obviously very weak people. The guy who who founded the thing I was promoting was like, how are you doing this? I need to see your emails I need to get into your campaign. Because exactly that thing I don't have the biggest email list even though I run email marketing heroes. I don't have the biggest email list. I do have the best relationship with my list.

Yeah, and the other thing I would say is that not only do you you know have to go with the engaged people and know that there's a little bit of everyone everywhere. You never know who that person is connected to. That's listening. But I have people that have come to me and said, Oh, well, a friend of a friend heard you on entre leadership or a friend of a friend heard you on the Ziggler podcast or a friend of a friend heard you did this. And so we want you to come do this. And so you never know where it's going to go but you can't and I don't want to use the word viral, but you can't spread if you're not out there. And if you're not out there because you're waiting on one of the megas to agree to promote you you're missing out on everybody else. So

you're missing out on learning like you want to get I would say you want to get this wrong. You don't want your first gig to be at the Royal Albert Hall in London. Your first gig to be at ASHA in a shady backroom with a pub strings in your guitar snap. That's what you want.

Chris Rob, I think is Chris Rock that did this series on talking about how he shops a joke like how he when he's writing new material to work on one joke for weeks and he goes into the crappiest bars and small because he said I'm Chris Rock if I'm going to bomb I want it to be in front of people and what am I shows? And so I think we have to be willing to do the smaller audiences also also also little coaching covert tip on repurposing is that when you're on some smaller shows or smaller Facebook's you can still use that content because you might hang up and go. That was amazing. I've never been that good on that topic before. Oh, I really love how that wrapped up. And then you take that video and you chop it up and you put it in other places or you use it to pitch yourself to other people. But you can't get better if you're not doing so. Affiliates is not always about going to mega lists or making a complicated or setting up a lot of swapping go back to barter. It's how we function since the beginning of humanity. Go back to bartering.

And there's no tax on that you seeing

tax no paperwork required.

I'm gonna give you an extra bonus tip before we get into the next section of the show. And that of course we said was gonna be seven things. But of course the eight thing that we should all be thinking also at seven and a half really is paid advertising. We've got to figure out paid advertising. It's still a great way of building your list to lead magnets through paid offers, through webinars through challenges, whatever it's going to be, of course, paid advertising across so many different platforms is still working and an absolute treat. Absolutely. I mean, of course, one of the things to remember with all of this that I really want to drive home folks, please listen to this carefully is yes, it's important to bring new people into your email list. But so many people get caught up and paralysed by a need to have a bigger email list somebody sent me yesterday. I've only just started and I've got a tiny email list. I said how many people she said 600 I said that is not tiny. If you had 600 people for even a room. Well how would you feel she was like I would be shitting myself and I'm like absolutely you'd be Delray be terrified it goes you would be whatever your list size is doesn't matter. The actual aim of the game is how we are converting those new subscribers. That's the focus. Yes, you want to implement some of the stuff we talked about today, maybe one or two things that we talked about on today's episode, but what I really want you to focus on is while you're building your email list, how is your scale at converting those new email subscribers? That's the real focus and that's the thing that not that many people are talking about. And that's the reason our business email marketing heroes even exist because everyone's teaching how to grow your email list, how to run ads, how to have a great lead magnet, all that stuff we're getting more people in. The truth is if I could have an email list of three people and it made me enough money a year, I'd be happy with that. It's easier. That's what we talked about in our email hero blueprint. Our email hero blueprint is the entire blueprint of how you maximise the sales from however many or few email subscribers you've already got. Because when you're making more money from them, you can invest in more lead generation you can invest in more nice things that you like to do. If you haven't already enrolled in email hero blueprint. Go check it out, but all the details about exactly how we do this with you over email hero blueprint.com That's email hero blueprint.com And now it's time for this week's subject line of the week. So this is July I send out and it's the words bloody cheek and this I usually split test my subject lines to see what's going to work the best I recommend really does that. And this was the winner of the two I can't and what the alternative one was. Now but anyway, I think the reason this works is there's a phrase in ad we say in England, which is that that person has got a bloody cheek. That means like, they've got a real nerve to be doing that like how GTR they are doing that. So it has that double meaning. And actually weirdly it was the thing I told about this topic this episode, which was at the fact that actually cut myself shaving, which was I had a bloody bloody cheek. So the reason that that subject line works is it has a lot of that compound curiosity. I've turned the story into a common phrase and people want to lean into that and go, What is he talking about? So there you go.

And in Still Thanks player. Share else. Tell it

There you go. And in the US is still translate, even though it means something very different than the US it's very literal in the US. Still gonna make me want to open it for sure. All right, so there we go. This is Kennedy and Kerry. Thanks so much for listening to the whole show today. Listen in the spirit of what we've been talking about today. Be sure to hit subscribe on your podcast player. Share it with someone else. Tell them how much you enjoyed it and we'll talk next week. Make sure you hit subscribe

you. you hit some. subscribe