In this episode, Joel (Heidi Build) hijacks the mic for an unfiltered conversation about the realities of building in Australia.

We break down why builders can feel “owned” by a client for years after a contract is signed, how viral “circus build” videos damage trust in the whole industry, and the difference between educating and selling when builders share their work on social media.

We also get practical: if you live in a typical 1990s brick veneer home (single glazing, gaps, limited insulation), we cover the first upgrades that improve comfort and indoor air quality, including draught proofing, ceiling insulation, and ducted bathroom and kitchen ventilation.

Start with draught proofing. Seal the gaps. Stop the house bleeding comfort.

You don’t have to be a tree-hugging hippie to want comfort and health. You can still love your V8s.

We finish on a solid reminder for builders. It’s okay to step back. It’s okay to realise you don’t like being the builder. It’s okay to run a smaller business. It’s okay to define success by profit, lifestyle, and sanity, not just turnover.

CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00 Introduction

01:01 Rapid Fire Nerd Check

05:21 Money Tightness and Numbers

07:59 WIP and Builder Finance

14:30 Trades Pride and Tool Skills

16:09 How Hamish and Matt Met

21:35 Apprenticeships and Passive House Path

23:14 Cost Talk and Comparisons

24:38 Why Building Feels Expensive

27:19 Wood Fires vs Airtight Homes

37:54 Bad Builds and The Gap

41:43 Licensing Upskilling Debate

45:49 Social Media and Industry Lift

49:20 Restoration vs New Builds

51:20 First Fixes for Homes

01:02:27 Sustainability Money Traps

01:07:04 Rapid Fire and Wrap Up

01:10:00 Mindful Moment Closing

Our Sponsors:

Pro Clima - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/proclima

MEGT - https://mindful-builder.captivate.fm/megt

Connect with us on Instagram: @themindfulbuilderpod

Connect with Hamish:

Instagram: @sanctumhomes

Website: www.yoursanctum.com.au/

Connect with Matt:

Instagram: @carlandconstructions

Website: www.carlandconstructions.com/

Mentioned in this episode:

Proclima Sponsor

Righto, welcome back to the Mindful Builder, except today, unfortunately

for the listeners, Hamish and Matt have lost control of their own podcast.

I'm Joel from HeidiBuild, and for one episode only, this

is now the Mindless Builder.

There'll be no blower door tests, no thermal bridges, and most importantly,

no one saying building envelope.

We are here to find out who Hamish and Matt actually are, whether Passive House

builders can still be fun at a barbecue- … and how two blokes this nerdy somehow

built a podcast people actually listen to.

So strap yourself in This could be educational, but I'll do

my best to make sure it isn't.

This one is for the rest of us builders and tradesmen.

All

right.

We can Brilliant.

I love that.

So just for reference, Hamish has got his me- uh, Joel's meta glasses on for that.

So, uh-

I, I actually had the idea before, uh, I was chat- chatting with Joel yesterday.

I go, "Wouldn't it be cool if we all had meta glasses on and we're all just looking

at each other without the cameras?"

Just be like…

Yeah.

It'd be sick.

And that would, that would be hilarious.

It'd be an

editing nightmare.

It would be absolute editing nightmare.

Righto, boys.

We're gonna warm up with some rapid fire questions.

Okay.

All right.

We're just gonna get things moving here.

Who's the bigger building science nerd?

Matt.

Yeah, I'd probably say.

That was convincing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The bigger building science nerd.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Is that because of your science background?

I love data.

I just- Yeah … numbers make sense to me.

Yeah.

Okay.

Fa- You- Yeah … you s-

you, you went to university as well

Yeah, but I didn't do, yeah

Hamish has got a very good idea.

Like, we're both… Like, we're talking, like, minuscule difference here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

Do, do you know what, though?

Like, I think I, I get all of it at a really, really high level

and I, and I can ans- I could sit and answer most questions,

but do you know where I struggle?

I actually forget the numbers.

He'll get into the granular

stuff.

The, the numbers and the granular stuff, like the- I'll get

technical.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All right.

Who would last longer on a volume build site before having a mentee B?

Matt.

I, I, I would, I would last longer, I reckon.

I definitely- You would last longer.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah.

100%, Hamish.

' Cause I, I could throw a tool belt around and I'd, I'd actually

enjoy throwing frames up.

Yeah.

You'd, you'd, you

could- I'd enjoy, I'd enjoy the intensity

… you could let go of all the passive house-y stuff-

Oh, actually,

no.

So- … a little bit.

Like, just if you were framing, could you get in that framing headspace?

I could get in the frame headspace for sure- Yeah … 'cause I just,

I'd, I'd look at it- But could you

just whack it up?

Are we talk- So what concept we talking?

Are we, are we-

Volume build.

Oh, wait, wait.

Like, where that's not my- The opposite end to you guys … but that, yeah,

but that's… No, but there's two parts of… So what I've learned to

understand about volume build is like-

He's, he's the more detailed guy

… Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

No, I think I'm figuring it out now.

Yeah, but like vol- volume build, like, as I've learnt listening to SBA

podcasts, like they have a role, yeah?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Are we talking about what is within their, their brief?

This is rapid

fire, Matt.

Rapid fire

questions.

Yeah, but see, just the way he's answering it, definitely you'd

last longer on a volume build site.

Yeah.

No, but, but, but there's like, are we talking about just a l- 'cause I know

some people that care that their volume builder work and the work they do, but

some just don't give two shits and throw the… What scale are we talking here?

Well, I think maybe just the generic volume builder, you know,

stereotypical build, which is just nothing like what you guys do.

Yeah.

That's the point of it.

I, I reckon I could, I could throw a belt on and I could, I… Like,

couple of weeks, I'd, I'd actually pr- enjoy the intensity and pace.

I don't know about my body.

Do you reckon

you could?

I, yeah, I used to, I used to- You reckon you could throw a, throw a tool

belt on

and- I, I… Look, I'd work it out again.

I'd be, like, probably a third-year apprentice.

Yeah.

But like, I… If you want me to cut, if you want me to move fast, I can move fast.

Yeah.

Okay.

So when I, I was like, that's, we work that speed.

Do you find that

cathartic ever, like, doing

that, like- Yeah, I used to when I was young and fit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

I, I don't, I don't enjoy, I didn't enjoy being a carpenter.

Who'd be the first

one to mention, mention thermal bridge in a pub conversation?

Probably Matt.

No, I reckon

it's you.

I know, I reckon it might be you.

Because I, I just give you the numbers.

The, is it the sign number?

Yeah,

and she maybe… I, do you know what?

I- Like you

said, big

ideas … so do you know what?

I was actually at the pub the other day with some buddies of mine, and they're,

one's a builder, one's, um, uh, he's a, he's a camp coordinator, and I was

actually looking at one of the aluminum windows and it was cold at night.

So I'm like, "That's probably got condensation on the inside."

I was thinking

in my brain- You know the Carlton beer draft?

Yeah.

He's like, he's like talking about how that's condensating.

There's a dew point from inside out.

Let me explain to you what, uh,

condensation is.

You just can't turn it off.

What the dew point is, yeah.

It's like when a chippy sees a miter that's slightly off.

Oh.

" Oh, that's annoying." Yeah.

Which y- that would probably get you as well.

That'd bug

me, yeah.

Who's more likely- Just like your t- just like your t- … to ruin a

barbecue by over-explaining ventilation?

I reckon neither

because we don't explain it.

No?

Hmm.

I actually don't think, well, do, do- Does it happen at

barbecues and stuff for you guys?

Do, do people like- No … you know, it's this- No, I know, like doctors,

when doctors go to a, a barbecue they're like, "Oh, because I've got

this sore on my foot." You know, like…

Do you know what?

I, I think that I'm a lot better these days of reading a room.

Yeah.

I think if you would've g- got me 5 or 10 years ago, you know when

I used to do CrossFit, right?

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah.

I was telling everyone about fucking CrossFit, and then-

I think that's the prerequisite for CrossFit

… and then I realized not many people gave a fuck about it.

Yeah.

And then I think my lessons from that are not everyone cares about

the type of buildings that I build.

But I think that's the reason why we build and, and we get such high hit rate

of people wanting to build the way we do, is because we don't talk about it.

Yeah.

And I think we don't over… Because the hardest part t- trying

to get your first passive house or better-built house is people want

to talk too much detail, and that's not what they, clients want to hear.

Yeah.

They just want to hear fresh filter there.

Go over their head.

Yeah.

Bang.

Done.

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah, okay.

We can, we, we can solve that problem.

All right.

Yeah.

Next job sort of thing.

All right, so I can, I'm safe to invite both of you to a barbecue then.

Yeah.

I think so.

Yeah.

I, I

don't drink, but, um-

Is Andre going

to be there?

That's all right.

Yeah, Andre's there.

Talking conversation on the windows and double bridging.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Andre gets upset if I have a barbecue and he's not there, so,

uh, now this one's got me stumped.

Who's the bigger tight ass?

Hmm.

I don't know

In which context?

Yeah, that's a hard one, 'cause I don't know.

With money.

Yeah, but in what context?

Not like physically.

'Cause, 'cause I'll, 'cause I'll spend money on…

Like, I'll spend money on stuff which other people may not spend money on.

Yeah.

It's

why- But then, but then I- Like an, like an

excavator.

Yeah.

I couldn't give two shits.

Yeah.

I wouldn't give a fuck about that.

Yeah, but the thing is, I wouldn't go and spend money on clothes.

Yeah.

'Cause I'm like, I've got, like, I've got 20 Sanctum Homes

T-shirts in the, in the cupboard.

Yeah.

Why don't I just wear that every day?

But I…

Yeah, I wouldn't.

I- What about at work?

Like, who, who do you think, with- out of you two, who runs, like, a tighter ship

from a financial perspective?

I hope Ham- Hamish, and I hope in a year that I… That is me.

I feel like I'm, I'm not as tight as I need to be, though.

I, I

reckon I'm getting better.

No, no, no, you tighter ship.

I don't… My- I think I'm getting better … that's, I'm working on my

financials and knowing them back to front.

I think I'm getting

better.

Okay.

So in

a year, I want, I, I hope if you ask me that question again, I

can be like, "Yes, that's me."

So, 'cause you're, you're quite science-y.

Yeah.

But it's not translated to the- I just, it's in my head … to

the, to the financial reporting

side.

It's all here.

Yeah.

Mm. I need to look at it here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's all my brain.

And I, so now I'm working on models to understand it,

and again, gone way too far.

Th- this is too, supposed to be rapid fire, but I'm actually quite

curious about, about that, 'cause I reckon I really got that wrong.

Like, I would've thought, like, from a financial perspective, like, just your

general, you know, just interacting with you generally, I would've

thought you'd have been like fucking

all across it.

I know it.

I can have the conversation, but not to what I think is adequate

enough for a small business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it's the most important thing that I've negated for years.

It's the most important thing that I think both of us aren't doing.

Yeah, yeah.

Well… And, and w-

Yeah, right.

Yeah, and I think, yeah, like, again, y- we can build a house.

We know, like, my cost tracking has been nonexistent on projects

for price, for projects for years, but I know it's been profitable.

Yeah.

Like, I've, I know you, you shouldn't just look at a P&L, uh, at the end

and see if you, what your net is, and take that as that's what you made.

Yeah.

But, like, I need to now, like, I'm starting to get my head around

monthly WIPs and, and cash flow- Yeah … forecasts and budgeting forecasts for 24.

WIP's

important as a builder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think both of us have realized in the last 12 to 18 months, um, our,

you know, cup-half-full attitude, ADHD kind of energy can only get you so far.

Yeah.

And I think a lot of builders realize that- I mean, you probably

realized that at some point as well.

That it's like- And this is where AI's helped me

I, my, my, you know, y- we, I would say the three of us

operate a lot on our gut feel.

Yeah.

And I'd say 80% of the time it's right.

Yeah.

So you'd bet on that most times.

Yeah.

But I kinda feel like it's that 20% that we- they're unsure of, that's

probably the difference between me having a really successful business- Mm

versus just a good business.

Yeah,

okay.

And that's my focus now.

Yeah.

And I know you're the

same.

Yeah.

Well, I know this, like hopefully in the next 24 months I really scale to where

I wanna be, but I can't do that without not knowing my numbers back to front.

Yeah.

Mm. So I made a decision early this year that I was gonna turn myself

into, like, a CFO of my own business.

Yeah.

Like, corporate stupid talk, but ultimately it was to make

sure that I knew the financials.

And I've gone and learned building science back to front.

I've gone and learned marketing back to front.

So I know I can do it, I just need to put time and effort into it and champion it.

So that's become my focus for the next…

That, that's it.

And, and this is why I say AI is really helpful, not creating models and stuff.

I know you can do that, but it's a really good learning platform to

be like, "Hey, I don't understand how WIP works. What is it? Can you

talk it down in layman terms?" Yeah.

You can explain to me WIP as

a builder.

Yes.

Yeah.

Can you just- And I- … start talking in, in, in, as if you're

talking to, like, a 15-year-old

This is good, 'cause it's actually makes you guys more normal builders.

Yeah.

'Cause otherwise the rest of us kinda see you as this d- different sort

of- No, no, we're not … level, but that's a, that's a normal builder

thing that you guys are doing- Yeah

is probably not where you think you ought to be with your understanding of numbers.

Can we speak about it?

So I'd, I'd say that I'm actually pretty good with my numbers.

Yeah.

Um, just the way my brain works, like, accounting has always made sense to me.

Yeah.

Um, and I've always been interested in, in P&Ls and stuff like that.

Yeah.

But I could never make- my P&Ls and my balance sheets and everything w- make

fucking sense when I was a builder.

Mm. I was like, and every time I did, I'm like, "This is such a bad business." Yeah.

So, but now as a trade, it's so much easier.

Yeah,

okay.

I find it heaps easier, 'cause WIP fucks you up.

So, so let

me- WIP messes with your reporting.

Can I, can I actually ask you- Yeah.

Yeah, no, absolutely it does.

Yeah.

Yeah, 'cause you might have half a million dollars in the bank at June

30, and then your, your account might go, "Oh, look at all the money

you've made." And then next week it might all go back out the door again.

That's why you need to account for WIP.

Yeah.

Yep.

Absolutely.

And then what's your, what's your cash in advance position like for

all this?

And for the other builders and tradesmen out there that don't know

what WIP is, it's work in progress.

Yeah.

So basically, it's stuff that you, you might have to do,

like in the future, right?

Like, um- Yeah, what's

left over.

You have, that you haven't… Yeah, have you got too much money in the

door that there's more expenses to come out than what you've

already, that you can charge for?

Yeah.

Yeah, and I seriously recommend any builder, like go on

ChatGPT, ask it about WIP.

Yep.

Like- There's a really- And it's not WHIP.

It's work in progress.

W-

So there's a really good webinar online from these accountants in Queensland.

They do a month, they do, they do a monthly webinar, and they did one on WIP.

They've done a few of them, and that's where I started.

And then just take this, just learn one thing at a time.

Yeah.

Don't overcomplicate it.

If you…

Don't spend your time on AI, spend your time on this shit.

You said a really interesting thing before.

Yeah.

Can I just, can I just touch on it?

You, you are a licensed builder and have been- Yes … a builder, builder

where you've built lots of homes, but you just said now you're a tradesman-

Yeah

… or trades person.

Yeah.

So you're- That's

my business now.

Yeah, right, okay.

I,

I don't work as the head contractor anymore.

I work for other builders.

Right.

Do you need your license at all?

Could you just get rid of it?

Um, I, I could, but I've got, say, Carrumburra that I'm gonna build.

Yeah.

Um, I've got, um- I can't wait

to be invited over by the way.

Is that your,

is that your house?

That'll be sick.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna build it.

We're not sure whether we're gonna keep it long-term or what we're gonna do.

It's kind of the financial situation's gonna depend on what we do there.

How

much land do you have there?

Just six acres.

Yeah.

Jesus.

It's enough.

Oh, like as in like- Car- yeah, but, yeah, but Carr- We call

it a farm, but it's not a farm

… Ca- Carr- Carrumburra though, like is

like- Is nothing.

Six acres is nothing … it's, it's, like six acres is like a-

Would you build a passive house?

… drop of interest.

Would I build a passive house there?

No.

Why not?

I can't afford it.

I, I can barely afford to build a fucking house.

Like, I'm doing it as cheap as I can, and honestly, man, I just don't think

it's gonna get me the value back- Yeah … if I do need to sell it.

I'm not in a position- But you've got some good quality windows … financially

where I can kind of lean into that.

I did build a house in the past where I lent into it and stuff.

Yeah.

And, and it worked and everything, but I'm just not there anymore.

I'm-

Yeah, you're starting… You've almost started again.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we're sort of, we're just like, "Look, if we can do this, let's just do it.

Let's just…" And I actually wanna be like, "Hey, can I build

a good quality, cheap house?"

Mm. Yeah.

Right?

And that's what I'm gonna try and do.

Will you

build it yourself though, yeah?

Your team?

Yeah, so I was gonna get a builder, but I really tried speaking to a few guys,

and I guess it just didn't kinda take off, and maybe it wasn't feeling right

for me- Yeah … so it didn't happen.

Yeah.

That's… But, but yeah, okay

We're gonna keep going 'cause we've got other stuff to talk about.

Okay.

But who has the more cooked client story, and do you have the balls to share it?

I've spoken about mine once.

I've spoken about mine as well.

Yeah?

I've had, I've had a couple.

You go.

Yeah.

I had the one, I had, I had the one that I've spoken about.

I just lost control of them during COVID.

Actually, so, and it got to a point where, like, I walked in on their job

site on the, during COVID, and there was a bag of coke on the ground that

they'd been partying on the weekend.

Empty.

Oh.

Empty bag, empty bag.

Yeah.

I also had a client that when I was, uh, I wasn't actually my own business.

They were a spoilt little asshole, and when they didn't get their way, they would

sort of damage things on the site until I-

Jesus Christ.

Well, see, the, in, on both of those stories, that's… I don't know if people

realize, like, you possess that site.

That's your site.

Yeah, I

know, and that's why I lost control- Yeah, it's like- … of it.

But now I'm, but now I d- I vet my clients.

Like, whilst the client will decide they work with us, we also pick them now too.

So, like, I've, I've gone through that.

Mm.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I mean, I, I talked about mine recently.

So we were, um, up in a project in, in the hills, near the Dandenongs,

and, um, it was a reno extension We, uh, started the project, did demo.

There was a long weekend that came, and we came back on the Tuesday,

and the clients had moved in on site, set up these ramshackled

like they moved into a bus on site.

The kids were in this sort of-

No

… like they ended up camping on site for the duration of the build.

What a nightmare.

And at the time I'm like, I really wanted this job.

I was probably recently licensed, and I'm like, "Oh, this is a cool

job. This is what I want to be doing." Kind of just let it go.

And as you can imagine, it just turned to shit.

Yeah, man.

Oh, I swear to God, if there's one piece of advice I give new

builders, it's just don't be too keen to do your first fucking job.

They're gonna own you for 10 years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That, I

have a godly- And they all do

it.

We all did it.

I- I have a

god.

Oh, mate, we've… Yeah.

Look, and, and look, I, I reckon, I, I don't want to poopoo the clients too

much, but I allowed that to happen.

Yeah.

That was m- that's all on me.

That- But a

lot of, a lot of-

That is all on me

a lot of issues that builders deal with is what they allow to happen.

Yeah.

That's on me.

You're a head contractor

for a reason.

That's on me.

So I ha- I say to anyone, if you, if there's a problem, look at yourself first.

Yeah.

So usually I will always blame myself first, then I'll blame my team.

Yeah.

I will not, like the last resort is the architect or the client.

I

wouldn't even blame your team.

Like you s- No, no,

no, because, like, it's a natural step.

I'll blame us first.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And then, then the team.

It's like look internally.

Like us, yeah, internally.

Yeah, yeah.

And then I will then, it's then if-

I agree with that because it's like, and look, only worry about

what you can control, right?

Yeah, 100%.

So,

um, so Matt, in your bio, you say you're, you're like not

the best chippy on the tools.

Whose idea was it to publish that?

Because it's, I mean, it's obviously super honest, but it's also, I

feel like it's terrible marketing.

But I'm not, not- But you

own it.

Yeah, but you're

not getting me on the tools.

Yeah.

Like, do you work on the tools on your s- jobs a lot of time?

Not much anymore.

Yeah.

But that's kind of how I pitch myself.

That's the- Like, I, I enjoy it.

So I put, like, put people good in their positions around you.

Yeah.

So I put amazing carpenters, uh, that are better at what they do than I do, so.

So you don't identify as a carpenter so much anymore, but

I feel like you do- I, I was never passionate about carpentry.

Yeah.

I, it was a means of getting to where I wanted to be a builder.

Means to an end.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Which is

not, not- I love it.

I love it.

Yeah.

But I

love trades.

I love trades, mate.

So I have passion about trades.

Okay.

My dad's an electrician, brother's a plumber.

Yeah.

Like, so fair- like trades run in the family.

So I'm, I'm more as a trades passionate about, as we spoke about earlier

today, lifting that, that floor up to start championing trades and ce-

like we celebrate- Yeah … when kids go to university and finish a degree.

Let's fini- let's celebrate when they finish an apprenticeship.

Yeah, agreed.

Agreed.

Um-

Why do you think it's bad marketing?

Oh, I don't know, like for, 'cause it's just I identify as a carpenter,

and I think, you know, as a builder, like the ideal builder is like

the carpenter builder, you know?

Yeah.

And it's, uh, not that it's like bad marketing, but it's

like you're a carpenter.

You've got that trade background and- But you, you kinda own the

fact that- I, I under- I under-

y- like he always says, like, "I'm terrible.

I was a terrible

carpenter" I understand it.

I could sit and talk to anyone, tell you how to do it.

I just can't do it myself.

Yeah, that's fair.

All right.

Um, so did you guys… We're gonna talk a little bit about your origins.

All right?

Yeah.

Did you guys meet on a webinar, or was it one of those sustainable

builder arranged marriage deals?

No.

No.

We… Ma- I think Matt slid into my DMs.

Slid into the DMs.

Yeah.

Slid in.

Yeah.

Mr. Slide Over One Night.

It was during, it was during COVID.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

We were just chatting.

Yeah.

Was

it?

I think I had… I got my first Passive House and you were doing one.

Yeah.

I just asked you a few questions- Yeah … and just

did this.

Yeah.

So you were the first in Passive House?

Oh, no, I think we both got our- Like- I think I got the first one on site.

Yeah, I

think you were like m- maybe, yeah, a month ahead, but you just got-

Yeah … your f- you'd just got your windows, and I just… Uh, you'd just

installed your windows, I remember.

Yeah.

And I'd got my windows.

I'm like, "How did you do this detail?" Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think, um, I think we both got our Passive House trades person qua- like

certificate- Yeah, yeah … whatever that fucking means- Yeah … uh, at

a very similar time, like '17 or '18.

Okay.

But, um, I do remember talking to you at one point saying, "I'm still

trying to decide whether or not I wanna pivot my whole business"

and I think at the time- Yeah

I'm like, "No, this is what I wanna do."

Mm.

Yeah.

So then I think we, well, I'm talking within months of each other.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you, you guys… And that's probably how it all started for

you, you both, 'cause you're on the Passive House side of things.

I think so.

I think then what you also respect is when we did that course, social media

w- or anything, there was no other information on building better whatsoever.

Yeah.

So that was the only thing that you could learn to learn better.

So when you do the course and you spend seven days, yeah, you drink the Kool-Aid

because you're like, "Well, there's another way of doing something." Mm. Now,

social media, you can log on and look up subfloor and find a better way of doing it

instantly.

But I think, I think the other thing that, that probably brought us

together is that we at the same time, independent of each other, just really

started sharing what we're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah,

okay.

And, and we just started flogging on social media that this is what we were

doing, and then I think it's all just…

That's kinda like how it sort of started with me and Hoppo

being mates and stuff- Yeah.

Yeah … is like that social media thing.

Yeah.

You sorta end up connecting on there, right?

You

share.

Like we, we don't h- like I, I don't know, I've actually ironically probably

become, I probably started to gatekeep a little bit more recently, not from,

say, the group that we hang out with, but more from a wider s- wider thing

because, like, I don't know, sometimes I feel that people just want…

Like, I've got some guy in my in- like inbox right now who's every wants

every second detail detailed for him.

I'm like, "Dude- Go do your job

Yeah,

yeah, yeah Like, I'm not… I don't work

for you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I'll, I won't, I won't go about, like, sketching up a design or something.

No.

I'll jump on and, and leave a voice note.

That's it.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm, I'm the same.

I'm giving you the, I've given you the answers.

Or my pet hate, and I fucking hate this, is when I tell them how to do

something, "Here's the video," then they go do it completely different,

and then go, "Oh, well, how do I fix it now?" I'm like, "I literally gave

you- No … I gave you the answer.

I actually- You're an asshole.

I actually- Yeah … gave you the answer- Yeah … on what you're after.

Yeah, yeah.

But you tried to be too smart.

Yeah.

So but it's, it's really because you guys have been, you were sharing things

on social media, so you kind of… I feel like you guys are championing,

championing the movement a bit.

Yeah, I f- I, I feel like we were probably some of the f- I

mean, Devon who's, who's here.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Uh, he-

Before us

… well before us, like years before us.

Yeah.

Same with Justin O'Connor.

But it, but it sort of takes the, the guys doing it.

Like these guys- Yeah … are selling products and- Yeah.

But no, do- You know, obviously they're, they're science- We were just loud and

a bit louder Yeah, we were just, we were just louder I think.

Yeah.

We were just louder.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think though, like, you know, and I think, I guess with the DeWalt thing,

if you're selling a product, people i- immediately go, "Oh, yeah, but

you, that's your motive." Whereas for you guys that's, like, not a motive.

No.

Like, you know, it's like you're just being yourselves.

Yeah.

You really care about, you know, passive house building.

Yeah.

But have you ever thought like, "Fuck, why can't I just do normal

builds?" Or have you ever thought about going and doing a normal build?

Does it get- I'd make- I'm sure it gets dropped on you

… I'd make more money I reckon.

Yeah.

It'd be easier.

I just think that I know, like if I think about the risk profile

of how we did things in the past and how we're doing things now,

it just, then it's not worth it.

Yeah.

I

think- And, and purely from a, from a building fabric point of view.

Forget about ventilation, forget about your, your windows, forget about your

thermal bridges, forget about that shit.

Wrapping your pr- And I'm not giving them a plug, but maybe I am the cheapest, um,

insurance policy that you've got I reckon

ventilation's not too far off considering the

code changes as well Well, okay, but, but, but, but okay, I, I'm, I'm

just trying to not- Uh, in general

I'm just trying not to kinda h- you know, sit on the whole passive house thing.

Mm.

But for me it's, it's-

Reliability, like-

… reliability, yeah.

That's

why I put it to it Yeah, 'cause that's probably a big thing

is, like, the 10-year warranty.

Like, people need to understand, as builders all, we're always thinking

about, "Fuck, that house I just built, oh, it's fucking pissing down," which

is one of these rooves that, you know, that we did on a two-degree pitch.

Like, you know?

Mate, I've got- But you guys don't have that thing because everything's sealed.

Yeah … I've got four projects, past projects at the moment that

I'm, I'm working through where there's some kind of water something.

Mm.

And they're well before we started doing the passive house stuff.

Yeah.

I don't know, if we did the same thing now it wouldn't be an issue.

Wouldn't have, have the problem.

And now we're working through it and there's, you know, some

that was client's fault, some was our fault, some trade's faults.

We're just getting in there and getting it sorted.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think, I think the thing is, like, what w- what is normal building?

But ultimately, like, I sort out passive house originally as, as

a de-risking profile for- Yeah

if I want to be a builder and I'm signing off on something for 10 years,

I don't want to be coming back all the time at a minimum standard because

ultimately I'm the one that pays for it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't build a code build.

Yeah, I c- like, yeah, I d- I, I couldn't do that, no I know, I know

too much about the risks associated with

it as a builder And when you know too much in a legal sense, if anything was to

happen they'd be like, "You know better."

Yeah, you know better.

That's a big thing as a builder, like, you know better.

You know better.

Yeah.

You know, but even if you, even if it was to code, you knew

better and you didn't do it.

Yeah.

Okay.

So

we got no turning back now.

Yeah.

What was it like apprenti- apprenticeship-wise?

Like, what were you exposed to as apprentices or- Quite the opposite.

Yeah.

Yeah Renovations Like, yeah

But like just- Code … a small builder, you did an apprenticeship with?

Yeah, yeah, just minimum code stuff.

Yeah.

But yeah, but like good jobs, but- It's

still, still good.

Like-

Yeah, yeah, yeah … the, like- No, like, oh, they were awesome.

They do great work.

Yeah.

I've got a, I've got a… I, I actually am not a qualified carpenter.

I just did… I, I was, uh, just jumped into it, and carpentry made sense to me.

Yeah.

So I'd, I'd picked it up really easily.

But my… I spent a lot of time doing decks and pergolas.

Oh, yeah.

But I pitched a lot of roofs doing that.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

So I could, I could still jump in now and pitch a roof, no- Yeah … no problem.

Yeah.

Did a lot of renos extensions, and then I did about two years doing, like, factory

fit outs and a bit of commercial stuff.

So I've got this broad spectrum of skills that I can- Yeah … draw on, which has

allowed me to be able to problem solve.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Like, it's, it's, I think… So there was no real, like, passive house thing- No

like, back when you were apprentices and

stuff?

I, I looked, I looked as well future, like, what is actually

into housing gonna look like?

People are gonna want sustainability, whatever that meant at the time.

Yeah.

And this just fit the bill.

Yeah.

So I was also looking future, securing my, my business.

I wasn't anywhere near as calculated as that.

I'm like, "I'm a sustainable builder," and it didn't mean anything.

I had no context around it.

Yeah.

I'm like… And then when I found Passive House, it actually allowed me to actually

put it against something because- Yeah … it was so- Measurable … prescriptive.

Yeah.

Yeah And I'm like, okay, well, this kind of fits the narrative

that I'm giving about, you know, sustainability- Sustainability

energy consumption, health, and all that stuff.

It was just a nice way to put a bow around it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I knew this was gonna happen, but I, like, we're gonna have

to go off this because- Yeah.

Okay … what you guys are talking about as, like, sustainab- sustainability,

Passive House, do you find, like, people are really interested in

it and they're, like, drinking the Kool-Aid until they see the quote?

I just don't talk about it.

So, so there's a number of miscon- like, so let's, let's start here

with the cost conversation, because what are you comparing it to?

Are you comparing it to the architectural jobs that you used to do?

Yeah.

Because I- Yes … would argue that they're gonna be very, very similar.

Yeah.

If you're gonna compare it to a volume builder code builder house, well,

we're not comparing apples and apples.

Yeah.

So-

Well, let's, let's talk actual numbers.

I did, the last architectural house I did was about 56 grand for a square

$56,000 per square

What's that convert to square meterage?

Uh, that's divide by nine Five, five

odd grand.

That's pretty low at the moment.

Look, well, that actually, that

was

years ago.

Oh, this is, this going per, per, per, per old school square.

Yeah, old school square.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Sorry.

So five, five- Is it

nine?

Is it

nine?

So it's a five- Five and a bit … five and a bit grand.

Yeah, but that was a long time ago.

That was a long time ago.

Okay, so how- It's probably equivalent of about seven and a half or eight Yeah.

Oh, yes.

Which is what we would be building

almost now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so I, I know our homes, uh, we could, we could- Which is,

I still think is crazy, was crazy

because the times sucked We could, we could scratch it through, I reckon, at

six and a half now, but I reckon it's more like seven, seven and a half.

But that's a new build.

Like a renovation extension is gonna be-

More expensive … a lot more expensive,

right?

Well, and again, I guess it depends.

Yeah.

Like it depends.

Like the site.

I think, I think the cost one's an interesting one because I

think build- I just think it's just fucking expensive to build

buildings is just, yeah, let's just- It's expensive to build It is now I,

I just think that we, we see so many people wanting an old- People won't

like this comment but, "Oh, we've got to help those who can't afford to build

blah blah blah blah blah." Ultimately, aren't we all trying to like… These

are architects, builders, consultants, we're all saying that, but we go

still build a million to $2 million house because they can afford it.

Like, no one's spending their time helping the people that can't afford

it because they don't pay the bills.

Mm. And building is now expensive, like period.

Like there's no… We live in an economy in a world right now where there's a

war and shit is expensive everywhere.

You go to supermarket, you go to fill up the car, you want to

buy anything, it's expensive.

Yeah.

Like we, we… It's just not building.

Yeah.

Like what does a car cost you?

You know cars back to front compared to what they used to be 10 years ago.

Shit loads.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah.

So we don't complain about a car- They've gone through the roof, man … or

a fucking pen, like 10 bucks for a pen, like that used to be 50 cents.

Yeah.

We don't complain about- I've got a

Hilux for sale by the way, if

you want to- No idea … look after your team, yeah.

Don't, don't, don't do this

to me.

I'm a sucker for a

Hilux.

Building, building is an easy sell, an easy media clickbait.

2023, 49,000 K. Oh, stop it.

Yeah.

I'll just keep whispering.

Just keep…

Karl's

like, "Fuck's sake." It's only

$28,000.

Get me back to my pre-heated

car.

Let's, let's talk, let's talk about cars, Karl.

Comes, comes with,

comes with three stickers.

All right.

What's the most un-passive house thing about… Oh, 'cause you've got

a pretty nice… Both of you have nice houses that you've both renovated.

I have now.

I don't anymore.

I've

got a new one.

So have you not

moved yet?

Yeah.

Okay.

You can watch mine on Grand Designs, can't you?

Yeah.

That's, that's been on

Grand Designs.

Yeah, yeah, I remember seeing that.

Yeah,

yeah.

So what's… Okay, so what's the most un-passive house

thing about you at the moment?

So like what's a, a non-passive house thing?

Oh, the

one thing that I bang on at the moment is we got a full house, uh, full

water filtration system in the house to filter out all the water so it's

like clean water when you drink it.

One, when you shower, like there's no shit on the screen anymore so

it's like crystal clear every time.

Two, it's gonna extend the longevity of my taps and fittings and fixtures.

And three, like I thought drinking like water from a

filter would be like what a wank.

It sucks, stupid.

I hate drinking other water now.

So that is the most non-passive house-y thing.

Why is it non-passive house?

I think it's very- I feel like that is passive house … very-

No, it's… That's just, that's not got nothing to do with the con-

This guy cannot consume power if he…

Like that's,

that's not- That's, that's nothing to do with the pow- the, the

performance of a home though.

That's, that's the, the

quality.

I'm talking about like, do you go to Calder Park Drags?

I mean, I mean, I know you don't.

Ask me, ask me, ask me.

But like… Yeah, go on.

Yeah, so- What's your un-passive house thing?

I love driving my 300 series Land Cruiser.

Yes.

Oh.

I take that to mean.

And, and, and- I love burning a wood fire in my house.

Yeah,

I like wood fires too.

So wood fires, you know-

Mm. Sorry, Cam.

Sorry, Cam … yeah.

Do a lot of passive houses have wood fires in them?

No, no.

You just don't need it.

You don't need it.

It's not a thing.

You don't need it.

We… Yeah.

You don't need it.

What if someone wants it, would you build it for them?

Do you wanna go… How technical are we allowed to go

into this?

Or is it s- or is it s- Yeah, okay.

Not too technical, 'cause it's also now.

No, so there's two, there's two, two reasons.

One, you're airtight so you gotta bring in air to, to light the fire, so oxygen.

To keep it

moving.

So it's gotta have a dedicated vent- Make… Yeah … it's

gotta have dedicated airflow.

Otherwise

it'll pull the oxygen

out of the room.

It just won't light.

It just won't light.

Yeah, it's… Two, the other question I'll ask is, like, and we look- It'll overheat.

It'll overheat too

… we look at health aspect of just human health right now, and the healthcare

bill that we c- in a state like Victoria is through the roof, and we can't

maintain it, yet we decrease doctors and so nurses, which we need more of.

The burden of asthma and burning fires is sh- is a huge- Is huge … is a huge

burden on our healthcare system right now.

And the thing is- Really?

Yeah.

Dude,

stop judging me,

man.

No, no, no, no.

It's fine.

I love my

fire.

I, I fucking… It was the biggest thing that I didn't want to give up.

I've

got, like, four fireplaces.

Yeah, no.

It, it's one thing that I didn't want to… Like, for years, this is

the part I hated about Passive House and it was mentally, I've given up

on it not because I don't like it, it's because it's the part that…

How do I even speak about this?

Like, y- y- y- it's… So when you burn a wood fire, it's, it doesn't

affect you, it affects everyone else around you 'cause it blows everywhere.

Yeah.

So, so I guess I think it's all within context though.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I live on a couple of acres, my back onto a state park.

I live, you know, there's fireplace down there, there's a fireplace down there.

Like, I, I- So you just

have them outside though now.

Well, I mean, I've, I've got a fireplace in my old 1970s home,

which I, I, I really enjoy the heat.

Yeah.

Now, w- if, if a client said to me, "Hey, I wanna put a wood fire in," I'd

be like, "Well, no, you can't." Yeah.

"'Cause you're airtight, your house is gonna overcook. You know, I'm

respecting your neighbors there, which is, like, 10, 20 meters away."

Like, there's… I think it's all, it's gotta all be within context.

Yeah, right.

So you have a fireplace in your house.

Your house is not currently… is unrenovated?

It is unrenovated.

Okay.

But you're gonna renovate it.

I'm

gonna renovate it,

yeah.

Passive House standards.

Uh, probably, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And mine is a more- So Carlin, do you… I live in a certified Passive House,

but mine's on environmental reasons.

So I, I care about sustainability, but not as much as you probably think.

I care what makes sense.

So durability and longevity makes sense, the home.

Yeah.

I don't wanna keep maintaining it.

Two, it's cheaper to be all electric.

Like- Yep … three, I want good air in- door air quality.

Yeah.

That's it.

Yeah.

I don't, like, materials and that, making it healthy was a bit of

a test and fun and play around.

But- Yeah … ultimately, like, I look at it as a common sense

approach, not, not sustainability.

The by-product that I have is sustainability.

Yeah,

sure.

Okay.

I…

Yeah.

Look, that… I mean, that makes sense.

But you… So there's, there's still nothing un-Passive House about this

guy.

Um, no, it's not P- like-

I feel

like, there needs to be something

Yeah.

What else?

No.

I mean, he… I

don't know You're talking to a guy that's got like a 6.9 liter-

I travel in a car … carbie'd car that he drives on the weekend.

I need, I need something here.

Um-

I saw, I drive a Mazda BT-50 as my other car.

Oh, okay.

Um- Oh, yeah.

That's un-passive there.

That's cute.

Yeah.

So to give you statistics, here we

go.

Diesel.

' Cause I, I li- I like, I'll throw this one for you 'cause I like numbers.

So 4.1% of Melbourne households use a wood fire, and it is, uh,

generates 50% of the air pollution.

Mm. So only 4% of houses burn it.

100% of the fucking

ambience

though, you know what I mean?

So if, if, if the question is who's, who's, who's more less

passive house, it'd be me.

It

is you.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but you know what?

I think sometimes it's some of the stuff, like I, I fucking couldn't

give two shits about recycling.

I just don't find it interesting.

Oh, there we go.

See, I do.

That's very un-passive house.

Yeah.

Yes.

I just don't care for it.

Really?

Like, like I just can't.

So what, do you just like throw shit, rubbish in the recycling bin?

I try,

I try my best.

Whereas

I, I agonize over it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I, I, I really-

Don't you guys have the bins?

Yeah, I have all that.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

On site and

stuff.

I separate my

stuff.

I'm worse at home.

I just don't give a fuck sometimes.

Yeah.

Like- So you're better on, on your jobs with it.

Don't… Wouldn't your clients would surely demand a certain level?

Well, no, we, it's

just, it's actually

cheaper to recycle sometimes, so

it's-

Yeah, yeah.

Now, whereas, whereas for me, that's been for… Like, I've

got, I've got lengths of timber.

In fact, one of my clients sent me something on the weekend.

You know that guy on social media who does all those funny kind of dad, um, reels?

And he goes, "Oh yeah, that little bit of tim- that little bit of weather

board's gonna come in handy late, uh, one time." Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

I'm like that.

I'm that guy.

Yeah,

yeah.

I've got like piles of little offcuts, um, of shorts for- I'll use one day sort

of thing … for, for boxing for a slab.

I'm like- Oh … "I reckon I'll use that on my barn slab."

Yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

I collect a fair bit of shorts for boxing- Yeah … and then I just throw them out.

I just move them around four times before I do.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Like, I don't care for the use of foam.

Like, I've got a whole job of putting a ton of foam in.

Like, at the end of the day, if I can increase the performance of

a house at the cost of like using petroleum-based product, I'll take the-

The easy win sort of thing

… I'll take the, the cheaper option to make the client a healthier, comfortable home.

Yeah, okay.

So

I think-

You seem very passive house still though.

You seem very passive house

… material, material choice, I don't really care as long as it makes sense.

Are you a bogan though?

Do you have any bogan traits?

Stupidly still play football

Do you?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

So yeah.

I wouldn't… Bogan would not be what I think about-

No

when I think

about you, no.

No, but that's why I'm like, there's gotta be something.

No.

I've gotta give something to the, to the tradies.

No.

To the guys that are- Yeah, okay … we're trying to get the

rest of the building industry to-

Yeah … I'm a bit more like, 'cause like obviously I've got a podcasting company,

like I, I can have very inappropriate jokes at times, but they will be

shared between people that I trust.

I'm not gonna put that out there.

Um,

yeah.

But you still play footy?

Stupidly, yep.

Yeah.

Yeah.

How's it go on the body nowadays?

Fucked.

Like- He's always injured … doing my calf and hammy every second week.

He's always

injured.

Soft tissues.

You're, you're, you're almost in your 40s.

Yeah.

Soft tissues.

I screwed, I broke my ankle, like bone last year and then fucked it again.

And

now you're back in footy

again.

Still play.

I got no PCL left.

I've got b- I've got metal all through my arm still from breaking bones.

So there's a bit of dumb tradie in there.

There's a little

bit of dumb tradie.

Yeah.

Fuck yeah.

Now we're talking.

I've been around a b- He's doing his best to derail my podcast … I've

been, put it this way, I've been around a footy club- Fucking educate

people … since the age of like eight.

Yeah.

All through seniors when, yeah, I, I can, I can, the other

side, yes, you will get that.

Massive on footy.

All right.

Um, do you guys judge us normal builders?

No.

No.

No.

You gotta, you gotta s- everyone, like you start somewhere.

Everyone start, we were all level one at one

point.

But you see what you guys do as the destination.

No, okay.

No.

So for, I can, I'll talk from my side, right?

So as a business, we choose to build a certain way.

Yeah.

Sustainable Builders Alliance, my goal would be that every single builder in

Australia just build a little bit better.

Yeah.

Whatever, whatever that is on that spectrum.

Yeah.

' Cause if, if me and Matt building four or five passive houses a year means

nothing unless all of these other builders throughout Australia, uh,

aren't getting a little bit better.

Yeah.

Now for me, it's not about like throw sustainability out the

door, like throw- I don't know, recycling performance, all that.

Just throw all that out.

Carbon.

Just build better.

Yeah, yeah.

Just build a little bit better.

Reliable, reliability.

A reliable home.

Yeah.

Absolutely.

That's something I don't care about carbon.

Like I, I, I don't understand it well enough, but I just don't care about carbon

stuff.

Yeah.

Yeah, I think it's something that gets thrown around.

Yeah.

But like, okay, so what you guys are doing, like say with the… I think when

people think about Passive House, they think about membranes and wraps and stuff,

and I would argue that the, the standard of wraps, building wraps has increased.

Absolutely.

You still get the old- Yeah, yeah … foil shit that you see sometimes.

Yeah.

But generally speaking, most of us won't use it now.

Yeah.

Especially small builders.

Yeah.

Like you'd be like, "Fuck, I'm not using that old foil shit." No.

Yeah.

But

you know, like even, even looking at Sammy Atkins, uh, one of his reels

where he taped all the joins for the foil backed stuff, I think that,

even that in itself- That's fine

is a, is a, is a much better-

Durability wins.

Yeah.

Like that's ul- ultimately all I care about is durable buildings.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's it.

That's it.

Like screw sustainability.

There's no point.

I can build you the most sustainable house in the world, but if it doesn't

last 10 years, is it really sustainable?

It's not sustainable, yeah.

So for me, I'd rather build durable.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Or is that maybe the way to make Passive House a bit more marketable

to everyone, like durability?

So again, like I can- 'Cause honestly, I fucking don't drink the Kool-Aid.

You guys know that about

me, right?

That's, but that's fine.

But the thing is, I actually, I don't think, and sorry Australian

Passive House Association, I actually don't think the solution is- Passive

that every house should be a Passive House.

It's part of.

What I do think is I think that every school and every daycare should be, or

close to, because we're talking about-

A hospital.

Yeah, but this shit's already fucking expensive, like government spending

and- Yeah.

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, but, but- You

gotta

s- But they're gonna spend the money anyway, and we're talking about children's

education and, you know, if your kids are anything like my kids at 1:30, 2:00 in

the afternoon when they've been sitting in the same classroom for six hours of

the day and the carbon monoxide levels are going through the roof, how the fuck

are they meant to concentrate in there when it's four degrees outside, there's

condensation dripping down the window?

Where would you prefer your kid to be, in that classroom or a

beautifully ventilated, healthy classroom with good oxygen levels?

Yeah.

I don't know, man.

I'll be honest with you.

The whole education thing and like my kids and all that stuff, I

really don't feel like the education system really is really hitting

anything for me and I don't- I agree

I don't know that I'd want my kids in that environment either, in either.

It's

your only trick.

Like I think- That has been the challenge … the reason why I say

that is I don't want my kids to be not, um, exposed to the weather and to

the elements, and if anything, I kind of want my kids to be outside more.

Yeah.

But that,

that's-

In the fucking cold weather … that's not

what I'm talking about though.

Yeah.

That's

not what

I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm- 'Cause you made the comment about you got to spend it.

It's more expensive.

You've already got a, a spending problem, which we do

in Victoria, so let's be mindful

of that.

I, I'm, I'm talking about kids in a classroom who, you know, let's face

it, kids have got to go to school.

If they're in primary school, they've got to go to school.

Yeah, yeah.

Like why not put them in an environment that's healthy for them

and where they can concentrate?

Yeah.

And, and to, and to comment on spending, like we have, we've got a

massive spending problem in Victoria.

Like our government in Victoria is fucking cooked right now, but- It's

about spending money wisely and redistributing the correct areas.

So we can cut on things and then spend in the right areas, and you can save money.

Again, I go back to the comment on the healthcare system.

What if we can decrease the risk on the healthcare system by building

better c- indoor air quality homes, and then all of a sudden we've completely

halved the asthma we spend, was it a billion dollars on asthma per year?

Half that, and all of a sudden you got $500,000 that we can now either

save or put to something else.

Yeah, look,

I'm- Or go and waste on a new freeway or something.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, like- I'm hearing what you guys are saying.

Like, um, again, I'll be, I'll just be honest.

I, I hear- No, it's fine … what you guys are saying, but it's fucking

such a gap to bridge, I think, like…

Do you think, though?

Yeah.

Fuck yeah.

Like- Do you think so?

Like- What, what counts,

what parts of the gap to bridge?

Like, I'm talking about look at the kind of dog shit houses that are

still getting built out on sites.

Like, I… Man, I don't know what's going on with my algorithm at the moment, but my

fucking socials are getting flooded with shit fucking builds and shit trades, man.

So is that our problem or

that's their problem?

'Cause that's-

I'm just saying, like, you've got this-

Yeah

… down here, and then you guys are, like, all the way at the

other end of the spectrum.

Like, I'm, I'm talking about… Like, did you guys see that slab that got poured?

Yeah, yeah.

I still can't

work that out.

I'm- Far too- … I'm still trying to work

my

way out … how is, how do they get past?

Like, that is, I-

As soon as you put concrete on that, that's, that plastic was gonna tear.

Yeah.

I, I- That just- I started second-

The steel, the steel's probably

this thick.

That's fucking… Like, l- those leagues and everything, I'm

like, these are not fucking…

There, surely there's no engineering document that looks like what

you fucking put served up.

Like,

who, who… I don't know if, a- and people probably have seen it,

'cause it's- Fucking everywhere … spinning, spinning around.

There would've been 200 cubes of concrete in that.

I started second-guessing

my- And then a bloke hanging out in a fucking tree branch.

Yeah.

What the f- Like, fuck me, man.

Like-

Yeah.

Do you

know

what I'm talking about?

I don't care where you're from.

Yeah, I know.

It's

just that- It's just more, it's just more- … I went through and watched

all those videos … a fucking

circus

… I actually started second-guessing my building knowledge, being like, "Am

I doing something wrong here?"

Yeah, am I doing… Like, a- a- are you actually… I was like, "Oh,

can you do that?" And I was like-

I'm more concerned about the pipes.

Like- No,

no, like- The risers and shit?

Yeah … the risers.

Yeah.

Like, so, so Stormi- Oh, my God.

You see the sewer was, like, running down.

God.

So, so let's, let's work that, 'cause that is what people see as building.

That's what they see as the m- the, the standard of construction,

and then they compare it to us.

So like- Yeah, hang on,

hang on.

Wait, wait, wait … hold on.

You're, you're- That house, that house is in, was in North Born or something.

I, I, I… D- does- That's a million, million plus dollar house.

Like,

it doesn't matter.

Just like there are crappy cars, there's also awesome cars, and

so there's a scale on anything.

You can go buy an awesome designer bag, you can go buy a shitty bag.

I don't… There's a scale on everything and everything we do in society.

You go buy amazing pasta that's 20 bucks worth of packet of pasta, or

you can go buy the dollar pa- packet.

The same as housing.

You can buy something that's extremely awesome, or you can just

get the fucking bottom end of things.

I've got a question for you.

Do you, when you see us on social media, do you think… Okay, let's

talk about me on social media.

Do you think that the information that I'm sharing is trying to

convince you to build a passive house?

Do I think?

No Yeah,

' cause it's not my goal.