In this episode of 'Stories for the Future,' I reconnect with one of my very first podcast guests, Anders Dræge, an ex-petroleum geophysicist who shifted from a successful career in Norway's state-owned energy company, Equinor, to a new role in the insurance sector.

We discuss Anders' motivations for leaving the oil and gas industry due to environmental concerns, his transition and adaptation to a different field using skills from his previous career, and the current state and future of the energy industry. The episode highlights the importance of transferable skills and adaptability in career transitions, especially in the context of the global energy shift towards sustainability.

Takeaways:

• The guest, Anders, transitioned from a successful career in the oil and gas industry to a new role in insurance, using skills like machine learning to adapt to a different sector.
• Despite changes in the industry, Anders would still choose to leave the oil and gas sector today, highlighting ongoing concerns about environmental impact and the pace of transition to renewables.
• The podcast explores the need for better dialogue between those inside and outside the oil and gas industry, emphasizing the importance of understanding different perspectives and bridging knowledge gaps.
• Universities and educational institutions are suggested as ideal venues for fostering constructive debates and discussions on energy transition, engaging both students and industry professionals.
• The episode touches on the complexity of balancing energy needs with environmental impact, pointing out the nuanced debates about energy shortage versus climate change risks.
• Anders expresses concern about the slow pace of change towards renewable energy, despite technological advancements and increasing global energy consumption driven by new technologies like AI.

In one of the very first episodes of stories for the future, I invited my former study buddy from the University of Bergen, Andersch.

Drage Andersh had had this impressive career in Norway's state owned energy company, Equinor, formerly known as Statoil.

Like me, Andersch is a petroleum geophysicist and he did really well.

He received a number of awards for his work and Washington very highly regarded, both inside his company as well as in the oil and gas community in general.

And now, four years later, he's back.

What has happened since then?

How was it to build up his career in a different sector and to be a newbie after living a career that was in so many ways going extremely well and especially interesting for this seasons focus have anything changed for him regarding his decision to leave oil and gas five years ago, and would he have done the same today?

That is what we will find out in this episode.

Welcome to stories for the future.

This is a podcast that aims to make you feel excited and hopeful about amazing possibilities ahead of us.

My name is Veslmarik Lomnes Paringe and I'm on a mission to discover how we can all live good lives, have interesting jobs, take care of our planet, and look after everyone who lives here.

I believe that everyday people have the power to shape the future.

Together, we can create a world that we're all excited about.

Join me on this journey as we explore these ideas and remember the future is in our hands and I'm confident we can make it really good.

A few weeks before this conversation with Anders, we both went back to a big annual conference we used to attend back in our oil and gas days.

The eage annual that stands for European association for Geoscientists and Engineers.

I have covered that.

In a previous episode, I led a panel conversation and Anush was one of the participants.

Being there brought back a lot of good memories for me, and I think the same was true for Anders, who got to meet old colleagues and friends.

But at the same time, I was interested to hear if Anders could sense a change happening in the industry.

Not so easy to spot after one day in an exhibition area, but still, you will soon hear more about that.

So here's the return of 10 stories for the future.

First guests Anders Draga so welcome back to the podcast, Andersh.

It's actually been four years since you were here the last time.

Yes, thank you.

I'm very happy to be here.

Great.

And when you.

You were actually the first or the second guest on my podcast at that time in Norwegian.

But at that time, you had recently left equinor oil and gas industry and started in your new position within insurance.

Can you briefly share that journey from leaving oil and gas starting and actually using knowledge that you gained from oil and gas also in your new position and also the reason for leaving?

Yeah, yeah, that's quite a few things to go through, but I can start maybe with the reason for leaving, because I started in the oil business without really think that there were any concerns about the impact on the environment and the climate and anything in the nineties.

And then I suddenly started to realize that, yes, we are actually contributing to the global heating, CO2 pollution and this part.

So gradually it was almost like a feeling that matured over the years.

And I thought that, yes, this is actually not something I would like to contribute to by education.

I am a petroleum geophysicist.

It was quite difficult for me to be something else than that in an oil company.

So I started to make a little shift in my career inside Quinoa by learning machine learning.

I went to different courses and I read books on my own.

And then I decided to try to apply for a position in Fronde insurance, where I'm working now.

And when I started in front, of course, it was quite scary, because in my whole life I've only been working in the oil business and I was very comfortable there.

I had a quite okay position.

I was having my own projects, and yeah, I had some impact there, but I felt like going back to scratch.

When I went to front, I started to work with something new in a company where I didn't have my network and everything.

But quite fast I got up to speed on working with machine learning and I started to build a network.

And after a year or two, I think it was almost like I've been working there for a long, long time.

And I started to feel a little more comfortable there as well.

So has anything changed during those four years?

Like, regarding your perception of the decision of leaving, would it have been the same today, do you think?

Because things have changed, I guess, within the oil and gas industry as well, do you think that you would have done the same today?

I can't say that I know enough about the internal movements in equinor to be absolutely certain about this, but I think still that they are mainly an oil and gas company with some renewables on the side.

And hopefully that is about to change.

And I know that there are people in equinor that are working every day to give the renewables more and more impact in the company.

But yeah, I think I would have done the same today.

But maybe if I was working there and I saw all the movements in the right direction, maybe I wouldn't.

But to my knowledge, I would have done the same today.

Yeah, it's, of course, hard to say, but.

So this is, we have both been so fortunate to kind of go back to our old sandbox, so to speak, recently by going to the eage annual conference in Oslo now in early in June.

As I explained in the introduction, EIG is this network for engineers and geoscientists in Europe, and we both used to be a part of that network.

And in this conference, we were both in this panel discussing how we can better build dialogue and better understanding between people on the inside and outside of the oil and gas industry.

So wandering around in the halls or on the conference floor, what did you think?

What had changed?

How was it to go back?

And did you have any surprises like good or bad?

I think surprisingly little had changed when I went to the conference there.

I think there was the same companies presenting the same solutions for exploration, better seismic and various things, of course, maybe in a nicer wrapping, but I think their message was the same as it was five years ago.

So I didn't see much focus on renewables when I was wandering through the exhibition there.

So I was a little disappointed that it was so similar to what I remember five years ago.

Yes, it looked surprisingly similar to.

It could have been in Rome or Athens.

It's kind of the same rapping every time and kind of the same people and same exhibition.

What did you get from the panel discussion?

How do you think we can lower the fences and build bridges between people often sitting on the outside and often maybe especially people working in sustainability, in environmental organizations and the people still inside the industry.

My feeling, and I guess you have some of the same, is that often I can sit among people related to the environmental movement and think to myself that, like remembering back from my old career, that you're missing some parts of the puzzle here, some pieces you are missing.

And I also the same from the other side, that if I'm with people still in the industry, I can think, oh, you're missing this part.

How can we manage this better?

And what did you get from that panel discussion we had?

Yeah, I was a little surprised in the discussion.

I thought we were going to argue more, but no, we had invited the head of the renewable in Equinor.

And I think she was really on our side, if I can say that.

So when I referred to a science article that said that we really don't need to explore for more hydrocarbons, because if we use all, everything that we already found, then we will exceed the Paris agreement and we will have a higher global heating.

And there was actually no one arguing that I was expecting.

Some people wanted to argue on that, but we were surprisingly on the same line there.

And I think what has been maybe under communicated among people outside the oil and gas industry is that oil and gas industry is very likely to have an important role in the transition to renewable energy, and we really need them to play along with us.

But so far, it's been going very slowly.

And it's not only the industry's fault, it's also politicians that are hesitant and they are uncertain and they are thinking strategic on elections and things like that.

So I think blaming the oil industry alone and really painting them black is not very constructive.

And I think there are many, many sides to this.

And the politicians definitely play an important role here.

They can open new areas for windmills and other renewable energy.

And I know that equinor will are eager to develop those kind of things.

Yes, definitely.

So we had that conversation, and maybe it was also, as I have mentioned in this podcast earlier, I don't like heated discussions.

So the reason for not arguing was maybe also that I, I didn't want any big arguments.

So maybe we didn't touch on the hottest topics.

I don't know.

It could be.

But I think often the problem is also that it's so hard to find this really fact based foundation for the dialogue or discussion, because the facts that you choose to put forward are so colored by the shoes you have on or your point of view.

So if you're on the kind of environmental side, you choose to put forward some facts, and the oil and gas industry always use some facts that they have as their favorites.

So how do you think that we could build this foundation so that we're kind of discussing on the same terms, at least.

To my experience, I think the oil industry is more and more accepting that they are contributing, or their products are contributing to the global heating.

But I think where the disagreement is what is worst, having too little energy or having an earth that is too hot?

Because if you think that it's much worse being short on energy supplies than having a too warm earth, then that's what I experienced.

Many oil people say, and the environmentalists, they say that, okay, we actually need to just reduce our energy consumption because having a too hot, too warm earth will be worse than having shortage on energy.

So I think maybe that's where the largest disagreement is.

Yeah.

And they're both facts in a way.

It's just a different way of different perspectives.

Yes.

So having this discussion, or conversation, as I choose to call it, in the eage annual, was kind of my first experience of trying to have such a conversation.

Can you think of other arenas or networks or occasions that we could have these conversations that these people would meet?

And maybe also because the people on that panel were all in some way related to oil and gas, either they left, they were still there, or.

Yeah, some kind of attachment.

But.

But how to bring in also environmentalists and people more on that side to have these conversations, do you think?

No, I think universities and educational areas are very good places because students are, quite many students are quite engaged in both politics and environment issues.

So I think you could have good discussions and you can get a more constructive debate and discuss the dilemmas there, because it's not black and white and it's very easy to point on somebody and blame them.

But I think having good discussions and maybe with universities and those education arenas would be a good idea.

I think Equinor was quite disappointed that I've been banned from University of Bergen.

They didn't want them there.

Yeah, I think they should have a better understanding with each other.

Yes, I agree.

Absolutely.

And so, fortunately, they're let back in, I think so.

That's good.

But a little bit personal question, perhaps, because you told me that you got the chance to meet some old colleagues and it have some dinner with some of them, and that was great.

So how is that talking to all colleagues that are still in the industry?

And do you kind of avoid the topic or how do you experience that?

No, I was talking to old colleagues both before and after the panel discussion, and I think very many people in Equinor are really concerned about the environment and they were encouraging me to talk about that in the panel debate, so I don't see any big conflict with my former colleagues.

And it was just really nice to meet all those people again.

It was both nice and sad at the same time because I really miss my old colleagues.

So, yeah, that's a good feeling that you really had some great years in Equinor, so good memories.

That's good.

So I think that the previous episode that you were in, like four years ago, is almost to the date, I think, when this episode goes out that it's four years.

So I remember my last question was something like, I think I looked because the name of the podcast is stories for the future.

I tend to look to the future.

So I think that my question was something like ten years from now, how do you see us?

Where are we then, and how do you like, do you feel optimistic looking ten years ahead?

But now I will kind of shrink that time a little bit.

I hope that EIG will look much more different the next five years than it has done the last five years, because that was not much of a change.

But hopefully we can show that geophysicists are much more than just petroleum geophysicists.

Geophysicists can be used to produce renewable energy and really do a lot of modeling on other things than oil and gas flow.

So I really hope for that to occur in the next five years.

Yeah, that's good.

And as you say, geophysicists or geoscientists, we can be used for so many things, and I would say they are crucial for so many things in the future related to climate and also climate adaption and, yes, everything.

So many things.

So, yeah, I agree, but that's good.

So can we say that you're optimistic?

No.

Or hopeful?

No, we can't say that.

Okay.

I think that we are going in the right direction, but we're going far too slow.

And it's just been a lot of news about the extremely warm temperatures in the Pacific Ocean now in the Atlantic Ocean.

And it's been a new warm record for 16 months in a row.

And they are really, they actually can't explain why the temperatures are so high, because it's.

The models cannot explain it.

So we're really almost on a new terrain here.

It will be exciting to see if this is just going on and on or if it will decline after a while.

But I think it's quite scary where we're moving now.

We are producing more and more renewables, but the global energy consumption is also increasing because all of the new artificial intelligence training models, moving everything over to electricity, is taking much electric power.

So, yeah, it's.

It doesn't look too good in my mind.

Yeah, something came to me now that, how it's related to your work now in AI, like all the energy use needed for AI, how do you see that coming along?

Yeah, it's definitely a problem, especially training the models.

Not so much using the model, but training them.

It's really, really consuming a lot of energy.

So yeah, it's a dilemma, but also it provides so much value that it's really, you would have, you will lose the competition if you're not using it because everyone else is using it.

And that's the same argument as everyone else is making as well.

But it's really difficult to avoid using AI in business.

Yes, I remember it was mentioned on the panel that I think it is four times the energy use asking chat GPT for something that you would ask Google before.

So do you think that it's something that we should think about in our everyday life, that we should think about the energy consumption when using AI or.

I don't think so.

I think that would be very putting a lot of responsibility on every private person.

The politicians should maybe, I don't know how they can regulate things like that, but I'm really in favor of putting a fee on CO2 so the government can collect fees on CO2 and then they can use that money, for instance, for CO2 storage.

I think the Northern Light project is really promising, for instance.

And if they can go in production and store as much CO2 as they are hoping for, then I think that can be a really good contribution for reducing the CO2 emissions.

But we need politicians that are a little bold and dare to regulate these things and not only let the market roof.

Yes.

So we should.

When you talked about the future and not being too, or maybe not too optimistic, at least I was thinking about this movie, don't look up.

So it's, it's like we need to, how close do we need to have the really frightening scenario before we react?

It's so easy to close your eyes and just go on as business as usual.

Just thinking about it now when it's summer holiday and people still go to Greece and to go sit on the planes and fly down, I will do it myself.

So it's.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's really hard to change the way we are living.

And I think all the signals are there.

There are headlines in the newspaper from time to time.

I remember, I think it was last year or the year before it said that the UN leaders say this is code red for the earth.

And that was when one of their climate reports came and Danny was a little fuss about that for a couple of months maybe, or just a month, and then we forget about it and live on as before.

So we get a little small awakeners, and then we forget it and then something comes back.

But it's.

It's difficult to really make major changes in our habits and the way we live.

Yeah, I have a feeling that a better approach would be to get people really excited about the solutions.

So, for instance, looking at oil and gas, again, if the people working inside the industry would get so excited by how they can be a leader in the, in the green transition, that kind of.

That would propel it a little bit faster.

But that is my vision and my hope.

Yeah, definitely.

And if we could manage to have more.

Less CO2 emission from airplanes and things like that, I think to tell everyone that even though you can afford traveling, you shouldn't do it, then that's almost impossible, because it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay, so I think we will wrap up here.

Thank you so much for coming back.

And you're welcome back whenever you like.

Maybe in four years.

So, yeah.

Thank you so much for taking the time on this.

It was a pleasure.

Thank you.

Don't you think it's good to know that it's actually doable to change your career in a rather drastic way, but still be able to use many of your skills and your hard earned experience in a very different sector?

I am very impressed and inspired by the way that Anders has pivoted in his career.

And I think it's an excellent example of competence in transition, adaptability.

And if it's something that I've understood we need now and in the future, it's those skills.

Do you know other people I should talk to about this incredibly complex, challenging, but also interesting and exciting transition we're going through when it comes to energy decarbonization of our society and the changes we need to make?

If you do, please let me know by getting in touch on storiesforthefuture.com or by connecting on LinkedIn.

I really want to hear from you.

Thanks so much for tuning in.

Take care.

And I will be back soon with more stories for the future.