In this episode, Tim Seymour is joined by Sandra Withers, Certified Profit First Professional and transformation coach, for a powerful conversation about what really drives sustainable business success.

Together, they explore why many business owners feel stuck, overwhelmed or disconnected from their finances — especially in uncertain economic times — and how clarity is the first step to change. Sandra shares how aligning personal values, vision and energy with sound financial systems creates not just stronger profits, but more fulfilling businesses.

You’ll hear how the Profit First methodology brings instant financial clarity, why unseen limiting beliefs quietly cap business growth and how entrepreneurs can break through those invisible ceilings to build businesses that feel aligned, profitable and energising.

This episode is a must-listen for business owners who want profit without burnout — and success that actually feels good.

Key Takeaways

1. Why values, vision and energy must align for long-term business success
2. How Profit First creates clarity and confidence in your numbers
3. The hidden impact of limiting beliefs on growth and decision-making
4. What “invisible ceilings” are — and how to break through them
5. How operating in alignment leads to both profitability and fulfilment

Foreign.

Welcome to Profit first beyond the Book, a podcast that takes you beyond the book with Profit first brought to you by Tim Seymour and the rest of the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team.

I'm joined today by Sandra with us.

Sandra, welcome along, please.

Thank you for having me.

Yes.

Yeah, thank you for having me, Tim.

So, yes, so I am, I am a prophet.

First Professional.

It was during lockdown, during COVID But my, my business, my career, my path took a different direction.

So I'm now actually a transformation coach and an international retreat leader.

So I help busy, brilliant people strip back the noise, you know, all of that noise that, you know, all the shoulds, the kids and all that sort of thing that's going on from the mind and the body.

And I help you cut through that.

People pleasing, that perfectionism, all that pressure that we are under and that we put on ourselves as well as sort of, you know, society and our business and hope and life in general.

And I help you sort of strip, you know, cut through all of that so that you can really understand who you are underneath it all.

And by doing that and looking through that lens of this, this, this true version of yourself, the you is you, you, you can then move your business forward, you know, so I'm not a business coach.

I'm much more interested in you as an individual, as a human being.

But it, it naturally affects, you know, those solopreneurs, entrepreneurs, small business owners, etc, to really move their business forward because most of them are their business.

So, yeah, that's what I do.

I love that.

Fantastic.

And it, and it sits in alignment with Profit first so nicely.

Hence why this is a natural conversation for us to be having.

Yeah, I know you're very keen on how the values and the visions that you work on sort of sink in with the habits and behavior with what you offer people.

We want Profit first is like building habits and changing behaviors.

Sometimes it's difficult for people to just pick up a bank account and change their habit and tell themselves what I'm going to allocate on Wednesday at 9 o' clock every week and that's it.

It's not quite as simple as that sometimes, is it, for everybody?

No, it's not.

I mean, I've Implemented profit first into my business and it has been enlightening, eye opening.

But you know, even as someone who, you know, do as I say, not as I do, you know, in terms of who, who walks beside people and facilitates, you know, creating those habits and those behaviors for themselves, you know, reducing and letting go of those limiting beliefs and creating new, much more positive ones.

Yeah, even I struggled begin with because of that.

But it's getting into that rhythm, you know, and, and also understanding and utilizing and using profit first that's in alignment with their values, with their vision and with the energy.

I'm all about energy.

I'm a human design coach and guide which is all about your energetic blueprint and I work with people's energy very, very deeply.

Excuse me.

So it is all about looking.

When you look through the lens of your values and, and your energetic blueprint, then your vision can change because it's aligned, it's an aligned vision.

And then to then use, to then look through that lens, when you look at your profit first or how you run your cash and your accounts in your business in alignment with that, that feels right to you.

Those habits and beh behaviors become very easy to adopt and to implement.

It's really interesting because when you think about it, a lot of business owners out there are struggling from a cash perspective, from a money perspective right now, especially everything going on in the world, etc.

Etc.

It's all doom and gloom, isn't it?

So it's enough to make your energy levels drop and to look at their finances.

It can be a task that they will put off because they probably know what's going on.

They probably know it's not great and it sucks the energy out of them.

So they actually put on looking at that area, don't they?

So things that would help overcome that.

It would because again, it's that belief that clarity is key.

And again, you know, when you know what you stand for, when you know what your values are, when you know your how to use your energy in the best way, how to make decisions in the way that you're designed to make decisions, you know that you get clarity.

And it's the same for profit first.

What profit first gives you is, is clarity.

You know that first profit first assessment that, you know that we, that, that we do, you know, when we're, when we're training and then what we offer the clients, you know, it's like there's such clarity and it might be not great news, you know, but wouldn't you know exactly where you are in this moment and what your business, where your business is standing right there.

And also to.

Because once you know where you are, you can then think about where you want to be.

But if you don't know where you are, how can you have those goals?

How can you have those visions?

You know, for me, vision is the end game and the goals are those steps that you take to get there.

So if you don't know where you are and where you're going to start from, what, what, what's the first goal, you know, what's that first step on that pathway that's going to lead you to that end game, that free.

What do we all want?

Freedom.

Freedom of, freedom of choice to do, be, have whatever we want.

Can't do that.

We don't know where we're starting from.

So again aligns really well with that values, vision, you know, your energy and then profit first to give you that real, you know, that's the financial clarity in order for you to carry on.

They dovetail beautifully in really, you know, and they're both, they're non negotiables.

You know, I would say you need to know where, where your cash is at in your business.

You need to know where you are.

Yeah.

But you also need to know what you stand for and what you want hand in hand.

I think I couldn't agree more that the starting point is from a profit first perspective.

The starting point is running the profit assessment, understanding where you're at right now and then looking at your blueprint to move forward and the journey you're going to follow.

So that's the numbers side, that's the cash side.

So with, with what you offer, do you is values where you would start?

Should we be starting it?

We're understanding what our values are.

And when we say values, are we talking in simple terms honesty and integrity or should we go much deeper than that?

Much deeper is the short answer.

Yeah, much deeper.

So I would say what two things that go hand in hand?

Understanding how to best use your energy, you know, so when you use your energy the way you're designed to and when you make decisions the way that you're designed to make decisions, then there is ease and flow.

You know, when you're out of alignment with that, it really does feel like you're wading through treacle, that everything is really hard, you know.

And you constantly asking yourself that, you know, why is this so hard when you in alignment with your energy and you're using it in the right way for you personally, not because Someone else has told you the right way, you know what to do, then there is ease and flow, and it is like freewheeling, you know, downhill.

It really is that with your values, and these are your core values.

I always start with your core values, not your business values, because your business values can be different from your core values, but they come from you.

So we need to know what you stand for, who you be.

Yeah.

And when I, and when we talk about honesty and integrity, so I look at values, if we think about an umbrella and, you know, and, and the umbrella is integrity.

Yeah.

And then underneath the umbrella is where our values, our personal values hang.

And when we stand underneath that, in that umbrella, we are in integrity with our values.

We are living those values.

Everything that we do is through that lens.

And when we are under, you know, we come from, from underneath the umbrella and we're getting soaked over, over there somewhere, we're out of integrity.

But if we don't even know what our value, hard to really recognize when we're out of integrity with them and actually how we get back into integrity.

So for me, integrity is, and this is a personal thing.

For me, integrity is not a value.

Integrity is something that we all require in our business, in our lives, and our values hang beneath them.

And, you know, I put love up there as well, you know, Is love a value?

I think.

I'm not sure.

Love.

We all, we all give and receive love.

That's, that's what again, it's, it's that higher purpose.

What is it we're.

We're aiming for, you know, and again, you know, some people put joy as that in that umbrella, under, above that umbrella.

And then our value sit because that's what they're striving for.

So it does go deeper.

It is deep, and it's really what you stand for.

And those values can also change through your life.

Your energetic blueprint doesn't.

Your blueprint is that it's, it's, it's set from the moment that you're, that you're born, is actually set 88 days before you're born, if we go into the science of it.

But your values can change depending on the, your evolution, depending version of you you're in, at that time in life.

So it's really good to revisit those values regularly and then look at those when.

And then through that lens, when you look at your business values, they can be.

Mine are the same.

My values are the same for my business and personally, because I am my business.

But for someone who who runs a company where there are employees, you know, they might have different values that, that they look for, that they look to uphold with their team because their team will have their own values.

That may not be the same as the owner managers core values, but they dovetail beautifully into the business value.

So it can go quite deep and quite complex.

Hope I'm making sense.

No, no, no, honestly it makes perfect sense.

It really does.

It's just interesting thinking about how it all works.

And so like for instance, if you are running the business and you've got a team, would you be looking for people with similar values or is there kind of a mix of values that work well together with other values or how does that work?

Oh, that's an interesting one.

I could certainly tell you about energies and how different types of energy work together.

But values, I think it's, it is, it's quite subjective.

I think that's what it boils down to.

And I think what actually happens in real life is that most people don't really understand or know what their values are.

And what they do is, you know, when you've gone on those one day marketing courses, you know, where you're there and you're given a sheet of paper with these beautiful words on and you cherry pick what do you stand for and you, there's no depth to that.

It's like, oh, that sounds good.

Oh, I like, I like on.

Yeah, yeah, I'm, yeah, I, I stand for truth.

I'll put that on.

Oh, integrity.

Yes, I'm sure I have a bit of that.

So I'll take that.

It's not really digging into what you stand for.

And those values can be, they can be completely unsexy.

You know, when I started to do this and I regularly revisit my values but when I was first, when I did my coaching and I was taught, you know, a particular way to really dig into somebody else's values and really, you know, extract that from them and do that exercise.

My top value was safety.

It's not very sexy, is it?

You know, you know, but my top value was safety because we were in Covid and you know, and I wasn't and I was employed at the time and I wasn't quite sure whether, whether the business was actually going to survive, you know, plus globally is the, is like, you know, are, is the human race going to survive all of those things.

So again it can be circumstance and it can be, you know, this the version of yourself at this time.

Now safety doesn't factor anywhere in and it doesn't mean that I am, you know, super risk taker.

It's just that I, because I feel safe and secure in my being.

My values are quite different.

So I would say maybe not.

Also, what is it you're looking for in your business?

You know, you might be someone who is not a risk taker, you know, so safety is.

But you may need maybe a salesperson who is willing, you know, within the boundaries of your bit, to be a risk taker.

You know, you, you may, you may have someone, you may, you may be a risk taker, but you need an operations manager who, who you want as a safety and security, you know, because at that point that they may, they'll be able to, to slow you down, you know, you.

It's just so sometimes it's not similar, it's opposites, but, but if the energies are working well together, then it's a, it's a beautiful mix there.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That was a fantastic answer, by the way.

Thank you.

But you know, it's really good to explore these things because it has such a.

It is in alignment with profit first and hope Proper first works.

All these conversations we're having, which is why it's important to have this conversation, this environment on the, on the podcast.

So we have to explore energy more because you've mentioned.

Yes, and did you say our energies are, are sorted out 88 days before we're born.

How does that work here, by the way?

But yeah, how does that work?

So in human, so in human design.

So human design is the science of, of energy.

It's how you, it's, it's the moving through life and responding and reacting and in, and integrating with, with, with life, with society, with, you know, with the world.

Effectively.

It's made up of four modern.

Sorry, four ancient traditions and a modern science.

So.

And what.

And, and it's based on how I, and how many human design guides out there do this is they, they.

They look at your date of birth, your time of birth and your place of birth.

So it's linked very strongly to astrology.

That is one of the ancient traditions.

We also look at your chakras, we look at your, which is your energy centers.

We look at I Ching and we look at the Kabbalah, which is your tree of life, but then thrown in there is quantum physics.

We have a bit of that going on.

So very modern.

Probably it's, you know, some scientists will tell me it's not modern, it's just, it's been like, it's, it's the buzz thing at the moment, you know, quantum leaps and all those sorts of things.

So, so when you put that all together, it creates your human design chart.

And, and there is your design and then there is your personality.

And your design is effectively it's.

They.

When it was discovered in human design was discovered, the belief was that 88 days before you were born, your energy entered your body.

Some people might call it a soul, whatever you want to say.

So your energy enter your body and then at the exact moment you were born.

Personality.

Yeah.

So those two.

So the design.

So design enter your body 88 days before and then personal and then the personality at the exact moment you're born.

And then you put those two together and it creates your energetic blueprint.

And it's, it's a bit of a.

A rabbit hole because I discovered it again probably about three or four years ago, as in I was guided by somebody because I really.

Even though I'd done the values bit and the vision work, you know, I was, I was a trained NLP practitioner by then, a life coach.

I.

Things still didn't feel right, you know, I still didn't feel aligned, you know, all the time.

And it was when I discovered human design that the sort of those missing pieces fell into place.

So human design does tell you how to best use your energy and how to best make decisions.

You know, are you a sacral led decision maker?

Which means you go with your gut, you know, like literally, if you, if you hear, if somebody gives you an opportunity, it.

Does your body like lean forward?

Like.

Yes, you know, or is it a. Whoa.

No, no, thank you.

You know, and I know that obviously this is a podcast, so you can't see the actions that I'.

But Tim can.

So he can see that I'm leaning in towards the camera in the microphone and then I'm leaning back as a hard.

No, if you are an emotionally led decision maker, you need to sleep on it.

You need to because you might have that spark of.

Oh, yes, that sounds really exciting, Tim.

Of course I want to do this, you know, do that.

But really, if you're emotionally led, that's an emotional spark.

So you want to step back from that opportunity and ride the emotional wave until there is calm, emotional clarity.

At that point, the calm has gone, that spark has gone.

But you still feel drawn.

But it's very calm and peaceful.

Yes, that's a fantastic idea, Tim.

Let's do this.

You know, so that, I mean, there are many different authorities within human design, but they're the two that are most easiest to explain.

You know, it's very, you know, so.

And you need.

Yeah.

When you make decisions, when you, when you make decisions led by that authority, it's amazing how many it's.

Right.

They're aligned.

So I can't even remember what the original question was, but there you go, it's absolutely fine.

And, and yes, this is a podcast, but we do put the video version out on.

Some people will see the ones listening.

Yeah, so that's so.

So the, the energy.

So how.

How does someone find out what type of energy blueprint they have?

How do you work that?

So there is plenty of websites out there.

I have a particular piece of software because it's so like in depth and it's so specific and there are layers to it, you know, I mean, you can go to.

I mean I'm 20 layers deep probably into human design and there's still stuff that is being discovered and that I don't know.

But, you know, so there are definitely layers to it and it is a rabbit hole.

However, you could just go on and type in human design blueprint or human design type and then you will come up with lots of free software that.

I mean, the.

What the company that I subscribe to.

Am I allowed to say.

Am I allowed to say who I. Yeah, of course, yeah.

So they're called Genetic Matrix and they do offer a free.

You can go in as a guest.

I pay because I obviously guide people with human design and I coach them in it.

So I want to go much deeper and so I subscribe to it.

But you can go in as a freebie, as a guest and just literally download your chart.

It won't tell you anything about the chart, it will download the chart and it'll tell you what your type, your strategy authority, your profile is, what your.

The theme of your life is, etc, but you might not know what any of those mean.

So at that point you need to start doing a bit more research or dare I?

Because I obviously, you know, I. I want people to come to me, but you could just put it into chat GPT.

And he's not always accurate because I've tested him.

But.

But yeah, you could do that.

So that's how you can learn.

There are definitely plenty of free websites out there.

We can get a free chart and it'll give you the overview, the top view and it's.

And then, but then you have to go and interpret it.

Yeah, yeah.

And.

And so if you, if you, if someone does that and then they can't quite Understand They've talked to ChatGPT, but still not really convinced.

Not really 100 certain what would happen if they came to you?

What.

What would you.

Because you.

You go deeper and I do.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you go deeper.

So what would happen if they come to you?

What.

What would they.

So what we would.

So if they came to me and we were already gone through the whole discovery, what is it you're after?

Oh, I want to know more about human design.

Okay, let's go.

It's usually a minimum of two sessions purely on human design.

I do other programs that involve vision values, bit of energy clearing because there's a little bit of woo going on there as well in my life.

But the human design aspect of it, we would go.

We'd have two sessions where we go deep into the chart.

So we.

So we do an overview.

Your type, your strategy authority, just.

I've said your profile.

But then we go into your body graph.

Because when you get this chart, you've got this graph that has these different shapes.

They're squares or they're.

They're triangles and some might be white and some might be colored in.

And it's like, what does all of that mean?

So the second session talks about the body graph and what, what actually those shapes are is that.

It's the.

It's your centers.

So things like your heart, your.

Your solar plexus, your sacral.

It might be looking at your.

There's a splenic center, there's a head, you know, which is like, you know, the downloads and the thoughts.

You've got your Ajna, which is how you process those thoughts, etc.

And, and so every one of those centers has a theme to an energetic theme.

So we talk about that.

So your first session is really very overview surface.

And sometimes that's enough for someone to go, oh, okay.

And it's not like flicking a switch either.

So.

And it's not like a box.

It's not.

Okay, now I'm going to label you.

I am an emotional generator with a 2, 4 profile.

Means nothing to anybody who doesn't human design.

But to me, it's not the box that it's been.

I've been putting.

It's actually my permission slip.

It's the.

It's the.

Aha.

Okay.

So that's why when I made this decision, I felt horrendous afterwards and it was totally the wrong thing.

And.

Oh, when I did this.

Oh, right.

It suddenly.

What it does is it enables you to make sense of your gut, your body, you know, you tune into your body a bit more.

But the other thing it does is it's an experiment.

Because we, at the age that we are, Tim, we've spent many, many years being conditioned.

Yeah.

You know, being conditioned, the shoulds and the beliefs that we hold in the habits and the behaviors and some of those, many of those are going to be fantastic, brilliant and naturally in alignment with our energy.

But there's going to be those other beliefs and habits and behaviors that are not so great for our energy.

And what we do once we understand our human design.

It's about deconditioning.

So it's not about reprogramming, which is subconscious mindset work, it's deconditioning.

And if we think.

I hope I'm getting this right because it's a bit sciency and I'm all about the woo rather than science.

I believe it takes seven years for every cell in your body to be replaced.

So deconditioning your body can take up to seven years.

However, just by doing a few things, a few things with your human design, you can start living much more in alignment with your energy, you know, so you feel much more energized.

You're not drained, you know, by people you're with or the.

All the tasks that you're doing in your business, you understand them a lot better.

So, yeah, it's fascinating.

And as you can see, I could talk for hours on is my passion.

Yeah, it's great.

Your passion for it comes across really well, Sandra and I think anyone listening, if this is piquing your interest, it's definitely worth reaching out to Sandra and we'll share the link to the website shortly.

We've also talked briefly about visions.

How do vision so values, energy and visions?

I might have said that, you might correct me.

How does the vision fit into all of this that you help people with?

Well, again, when we, when we have like the end game, but we.

But we're not really sure about how we're using our energy, whether we're using it correctly, where we're in alignment or out of alignment with it.

When we don't really understand our values and whether we're in integrity with them or out of integrity with them, your vision may not be yours.

It may not actually be in alignment with how you want to live your life, who you be.

So when you know those and then you, then you tackle the vision, then you really dig deep into what it is you want and, and you know, then it's true.

Yeah, it's yours.

It becomes Meaningful.

It becomes you.

The desire for it really becomes, you know, real.

You know, I, I say to clients, you know, it's like we're all bombarded with 10k months, 6 figure years or 6 figure months.

I come across someone who is talking about quantum leaps and six figure days and I'm like, what, you know, such a thing.

But then when you actually ask somebody, what's the purpose of having a 10k month?

What, what does that do for you?

Most of the time it's a blank face because they just feel like that's, that's, that's what I have to do.

That's what I should do to be successful in my business.

But I, is there joy at that point?

You know, and that's what really we strive for is, is joy.

Yeah, because, you know, and, and freedom, whether that's emotional freedom, whether that is financial freedom, because what that does, it gives us choices.

And, and again, what's profit first all about?

You know, choices.

It's about, you know, if you are someone who thinks, well, you know, I don't, I don't know if I, I'm sorry, but you know, having a business that makes all of this profit.

I went into a business just to like help the community and just to make sure I could live, you know, you know, comfortably.

And I feel like, oh, you know, like it's a bit, it's almost like, you know, dirty word, you know, sort of like making whatever, whatever, whatever the, the figure is.

But then when you put it to them and say, okay, these are your values.

So if you have a successful company and you're making shed loads of profit and profit first has helped you get there because you can see the numbers.

So rather than do the whole, you know, that whole tie thing, you know, in the whole 90, then you give 10 to the church or what, you know, why don't you flip it and go, okay, well, I live quite comfortably and I'm not ambitious.

You know, I like to have a holiday and I like a nice car or, you know, I don't even need that, you know, and I've got a comfortable home so that I want to give to the community.

You could do 90% of your profit to the community and keep 10% for yourself.

And how would that.

And that could be in total alignment with your values and your energy.

But unless you know that, unless you can look through those lenses, your vision may not actually be yours.

And, and I think you've inadvertently come out with our profit first beyond the book tip there, because actually profit can be a dirty word to some people, but actually so repurposing profit to do the good in the community as opposed to just coming across as being greedy and grabbing it all for yourself, which doesn't absolutely review it.

If someone's making a lot of profit and they don't need it and they repurpose it to do good in the community, how wonderful is that?

So there's a, there's a beyond the book that you won't get from the book because it wouldn't be written about those kind of things.

And I'm, I'm, I totally believe in that.

You know, my, the, you know, my, one of my visions and part of the vision that I have, my end game is to be in a position where I can actually gift my knowledge to people, my guidance, my, you know, I talk about walking alongside people rather than I'm coaching them.

You know, I walk alongside you on your, and again, I know it's overused, but on your journey, on your, your self exploration, you know, I'm there to hold your hand, to give you a hug and also give you a kick at the backside when you need it as well, you know, it's.

Yeah.

And you know, for me, you know, I run retreats as well.

I host retreats, I lead them.

They're in this country, they're abroad.

And what I, I want to be in a position where I can actually gift one or two spaces on my retreats to people.

People who, the idea of it is just amazing and, and fantastic.

But they're not in, in a place financially to be able to afford that yet.

Yeah, but to be able to give them that and then show them what, you know, what they could have if.

Yeah.

What they could have when they really, you know, understand who they are and then let themselves fly.

And so, so yes, you know, mine isn't necessarily about giving away my profits to people.

Mine is about being in a position where.

And where I can give my time.

I don't need to earn as much money because, you know, I'm comfortable.

And profit first helps me see that in real cash terms because I can absolutely see the profit pot rising.

You know, I can see my expenses, pot still having money at the end of it because I've done the work, I've, you know, I'm, you know, yearly or six months, you have a, you know, after the first profit assessment, I look at my expenses, I look at my outgoings.

What can be reduced, what can be changed, what can be, you know, what's essential, you know, so that constant review and I, I do that, but I do that, but also because I'm prompted by somebody.

Not necessarily because, hey, I've read the book and I can do it myself, you know, that's the other thing, isn't it Tim, is that we need someone to walk alongside us.

I walk alongside you when it comes to your, comes to your, your energy, your, you is you, you know, you becoming the true version of you dropping the masks, really understanding where your energy lies.

For someone like, you know, yourself and your profit first professionals and your mentors, they walk alongside you for profit first and your business that you know and, and you know.

So you've got them on the left and me on the right, you know, hand in hand walking alongside you, ensuring that you personally and your business thrives.

That's what it's all about, isn't it?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, right.

I totally agree.

I mean, you know when you were talking earlier about people being able to download their, their energy blueprint but not necessarily been able to interpret it properly.

It's a bit like someone who's read the book and tries to run profit versus their business.

They go straight into the target allocation percentages because they don't know any better.

Before you know it, they've tried a couple of weeks, they've run out, you know, they've gone all the money to pay their bills, they say it's not working, throw it out the window and they just say no, profit first isn't for me.

But actually with someone holding their hand who's had the experience that we've had of working profit in hundreds of businesses, now we can guide them through the process and help them.

Exactly.

Resistance and the obstacles that we all come up against and it helps them then move forward to teach their clients in the same way we've mentioned.

So you mentioned your retreats.

It was a question I was going to ask, but you've touched on it now anyway.

What, what happens on the retreats?

What, what, what would someone, if someone came on a retreat, what goes on?

Oh, it's a big secret.

I can't reveal the secrets of that.

I'll give you overviews.

I'll give you overviews.

My retreats are all about.

Yeah, my, my retreats are all about energetic reset.

Yeah.

So it's a reset, it's a recharge, but it's also reconnection.

And again, not only with yourself, you know, that beautiful inner journey, that, that and self exploration, but also with like minded people who feel like they're in the Same exhausted hamster wheel sort of, you know, day by day, you know, so it's a reconnection not only with self but with community as well.

And you know, I love a long haul trip.

So, you know, I like my retreats to be in tropical hot places.

So Bali is a beautiful environment for me.

But it not only because it's, it's, it's, it's tropical and it's a long way away and it's, Bali just sounds amazing, but the energy in Bali is off the charts.

You know, the, the estate that I use is in the jungle and if you think about, you know, just again, science point of view, you know, all those plants, they are, they are absorbing the CO2 and they are releasing oxygen.

So, you know, I've never been to Bali and had jet lag.

You know, it's, it's 17 hours on two planes.

Yeah, it's not, it's not for the faint hearted.

You know, you've got to, you've, you've got to be committed, you know, to go to Bali.

But I've been there three times now and I'm just planning my fourth and, and I've never suffered the jet lag.

When I've got there, I have a good night's sleep and the next day, ping, I'm ready.

We're either to receive if I'm actually on a retreat or to actually lead one and the same on the way back.

When I travel back, same thing.

I have a good night's sleep.

When I get back to the uk next day I'm fine.

And it's not just because, you know.

Yeah, it isn't just because the retreat leader is amazing and you know, it is because of the energy that's, that's actually in Bali.

It's just such a magical place.

So yes, that is my, my retreat of choice for sure.

But yeah, so it's energetic reset.

So we do lots of energetic work.

We do breath work.

I can give that, those things away, you know.

So I'm a breath work practitioner.

I'm actually a Reiki practitioner.

So that's energetic healing.

I don't heal you heal yourself.

But I'm the channel.

So you know there's that I do energy clearing.

So there's, I do, I'm certified in something called the energy codes.

There's coaching, one to one coaching, you know, some and it just depends on the group of.

It is women.

I was, I've been asked recently whether I would take men and I sort of said yes, you find me three Guys who are willing to put their money where the mouth is.

And I will do a mixed retreat, you know.

Yep, yep.

So I haven't, they haven't come back to me yet, but when they do, I'm more than happy to run one.

But, you know, we'll, we'll.

The coaching is, Is quite fluid.

It's not like I have like a script or a structure and we go, today we're doing values and tomorrow we'll look at division.

What we do is we see what the group needs.

You know, that's what it is.

But it's, but it's a really, It's a lovely reset for anybody.

The great thing about being so far away from the uk, this, I mean, I've done retreats in the, in the UK and your, you know, the participants and myself can be very easily distracted because you've still got your phone, you're in the same time zone and when you go somewhere that far away, where they're eight hours ahead in time, so when we're waking up, you're still asleep and vice versa, it's great because then you.

I'm not one to say that's it, all electronics are banned because I'm going to be the first one to get my phone out and take a photo of you all having a great time, you know, for my socials.

So.

But I.

What I want you to do is to be able to basically like, quiet the noise, the noise of your life back home and really step away and be cocooned in a really beautiful setting with a group of women or people, if it ever comes to being a mixed one, that really understand and can support you through those six, seven, however many days it happens to be.

And there's lots, there's excursions, you know, we do experiences that are going to support, you know, that the actual theme of the retreat, there's.

There's the odd margarita or two because the place I go to, the estate manager, Patu, he makes a mean margarita and a fantastic cosmopolitan, actually.

And quite a.

Quite a decent gin and tonic as well.

So it's not one of the.

It's also.

My retreats are also not one of those ones where it's like my body is my temple, you know, sort of thing.

It's like fill you, you know, it's not like, please, please don't get drunk every night, but, you know, by all means, enjoy, Enjoy the surroundings.

Yeah, so.

So, yeah, it's quite.

I've heard the word liberating by one of.

One of the participants.

It's quite liberating.

So, yeah, there you go.

That's the other passion about those as well.

Can you tell?

Of course, of course.

It's great.

It's great.

No, it's great to understand a bit more about it.

Now I'm going to.

I've got one more thing to ask you or to bring up.

You mentioned before we came online that you saw one of my social media posts where I was punching through a ceiling.

For me, that post was about how I was stuck as an accountant and the bookkeeper doing compliance work and I couldn't see.

I felt like I'd hit a ceiling.

I felt like I could.

I couldn't do any more work to earn any more money.

I'd raised my price and so I felt like it had ceiling.

Then I started reading Profit first and I felt I'd found a way that I could actually break through that ceiling.

So there was an AI generated graphic.

I'll be totally honest, it was a cartoony graphic.

I had a bit of fun making it and the idea was that it would stand out.

Obviously you saw it and it's great that you mentioned it before.

So you did mention something about people breaking through ceilings and stuff before we came on.

I don't know what you share or what.

As much as.

Or as little as you want to.

Yeah.

So I.

So, again, so many of us live underneath what I call the invisible ceiling.

And it's what keeps us stuck, but we're not quite sure what it is, you know, so we can.

So nobody else can see it, but we feel it.

We feel it deeply, you know, but we don't really know what makes it, what's created it.

And.

And we may even be a know what is on the other side of that ceiling.

But unfortunately, you can't break through what you can't see.

And that's the thing.

Yeah.

So it's about, for me, the, you know, we have this invisible ceiling and what.

Again, what.

Working on things like I do an energetic audit and.

Which looks at three different pillars.

It looks at your personal energy, it looks at your values, your visions, your mindset, your energy, your energetic sort of blueprint.

And it looks at your.

And it looks like the mindset is your last pillar.

So values, visions and your energetic blueprint.

And then your mindset at the end and the results of those, the scoring of those gives you an indication of what that ceiling is made up of.

So it then becomes visible.

And once you know what is keeping you stuck on that hamster wheel, on that treadmill, Whatever it is, then you could.

Then you can do something about it if you're ready.

And what I have found is that some people are just not ready.

Some people that when they discover what it is, they go, oh, that.

But that's like a warm comfort blanket.

Yeah.

It's keeping them stuck, but actually they're not ready to let go of it yet because it's comforting.

It's what they know, but at least they know what it is.

So that when they are ready to throw off that blanket and go, no, I'm ready to break through, because I can.

I really do.

I really desire what's on the other side.

Then they.

Then, you know, then, yeah, they know what they need to tackle.

They know what need to work on.

So again, same.

Same sort of thing, you know, what the book gave for you was it showed you what that ceiling was made of.

Yeah.

And it also possibly made it into a glass ceiling because you can see through it and see what's on the other side.

How do we smash through it?

What do we need to do to smash through it?

You know, and.

And we'll each have our path, you know, our.

Our plan, how to do that, you know, what we need to do to do that.

So.

Yeah, so.

Yeah, so.

And I've just started running days, sort of like mastermind days, where that's what we do.

We do an audit.

We look at your wheel of life.

There's a bit of magic in between.

And, you know, and then what people walk away with is understanding their invisible ceiling.

It's now visible, but also a possible pathway to actually breaking through it.

Smashing through it and getting to the other side.

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah.

And not everybody's ready to go through the ceiling, but some people.

People will be straight away, and some will perhaps come back and say, right, I'm ready to smash through at night.

It just.

Just depends on where everybody's at in their own journey.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think the other side of it is.

Is that is unfortunately, you know, a bit like, we know if you've ever.

If you've ever had a coach and they.

They.

And you're looking at your beliefs and your behaviors and all those things.

Yeah.

And, you know, you peel off that layer and you're like, I'm done.

I'm ready.

Let's go.

And then about a year later, you're like, oh, my goodness, I'm.

I'm pushing against, you know, another wall or something that I can't get.

Yeah.

We are all onions.

We are layers.

And unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it.

I'm a cup half full.

So I'm like fortunately because it's exciting, it's a challenge.

We're never done.

There's always.

Yeah, because you, because we put limits on ourselves.

Even when we smash through one limit, there'll be another one.

You know, when we talk about money and we talk.

One of my, one of the codes that I do is that is called a money code and it's about.

Because we put up a limit on how much we feel we should receive.

Yeah.

You know, the conditioning there.

So you'll get past one and there might be another limit a little bit further along, another layer to unpeel, another ceiling to break through.

So again, it's always good again like your values to revisit that, you know, to see is there something else now that's stopping me from, from getting to my vision to my end game?

What do I need to do to smash through that one?

So yeah, yeah, makes perfect sense.

Sandra, thank you for sharing all that.

I know I put you on the spot with a couple of questions.

I apologize.

No, not at all.

Having the conversation and going through it.

If, for anyone listening, if, if what you've heard from Sanda resonates with you and you'd like to find out more, just pop onto Sandra's website, which is sandraweathers.com it's on the screen now.

For those watching on video on the podcast.

I'll read it out again.

Sandra withers.co.uk so I encourage you to, to take a look, reach out to Sandra if you want some more support in these areas.

Highly recommended sinks so beautifully with the whole habits, behavior, rhythm of money within the Profit first environment that it really is recommended to put the two together as well.

Well, so I think that would be an amazing opportunity for people.

If you're an accountant and bookkeeper and you're interested in learning more about how Profit first can help you in your business, you can hop onto our Facebook group called the Profit First Pathway.

Just pop onto Facebook, type in the Profit first pathway.

You'll see myself, you'll see Jason, and you'll see Deb waving at you.

So just, just hit the, hit the link, answer two or three very simple questions and we'll you let you in and we can get you on some of our online sessions and start helping you and supporting you with your journey forward.

And, and if you need then to, to speak to Sandra as well, we can hook you up with Sandra after.

So, so Sandra thank you so much for joining me.

I've really enjoyed this.

You're welcome.

And.

And we'll see you all soon.

Thank you.

Brilliant.

Thank you.

Thank you for joining us on our podcast today.

Profit first beyond the Book was brought to you by the Profit First Professionals UK and Ireland team.

If you'd like to find out more about Profit first or becoming a Profit First Professional, head to our website, profit first uk.co.uk.