Shownotes
This podcast episode features an enlightening discussion with Dean Snell, the CEO of Snell Golf, regarding the company's latest product launches: the PR3 and PR4 golf balls. Dean elaborates on the intricacies of golf ball design and manufacturing, particularly the challenges faced in recent years due to supply chain disruptions and material shortages exacerbated by the COVID-19 pandemic. We delve into the extensive development process behind creating high-quality golf balls, which often spans two to two and a half years, and the significance of consumer feedback in shaping product innovations. Additionally, Dean offers insights into the broader golf industry landscape, including the impact of marketing strategies employed by larger corporations and the importance of affordability for the average golfer. The dialogue is not only informative but also highlights our commitment to enhancing the golfing experience for enthusiasts at all levels.
Links referenced in this episode:
Companies mentioned in this episode:
- Birdie ball
- Snell Golf
- Titleist
- TaylorMade
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
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Speaker A:Well, very pleased to welcome back a friend of the show and a supporter of the show and my crazy endeavors out there, Dean Snell, the CEO of Snell Golf.
Speaker A:Dean's been on the show a number of times, and he's on the road now.
Speaker A:He seems to be, at times, perpetually on the road.
Speaker A:So welcome back, Dean.
Speaker B:Good to be back.
Speaker B:Nice to see you again.
Speaker A:Nice to see you.
Speaker A:Big news is you've got a couple of new balls coming out.
Speaker A:The PR3 and the PR4.
Speaker A:Tell us about them.
Speaker A:That's how this.
Speaker A:Open it up that way.
Speaker A:Make it simple.
Speaker A:Tell us about them.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's, you know, to say the least, the last five or six years have been definitely a challenge in the.
Speaker B:In the supply and manufacturing of golf balls.
Speaker B:And basically, it started back when kind of COVID hit and golf kind of took off and was one of the big things that everybody could actually do outside.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, during that time period, there were some major hiccups in the golf supply for materials.
Speaker B:There was a manufacturing facility that actually, unfortunately blew up and had 10 deaths.
Speaker B:Supply of materials were limited, Factories were getting purchased, and manufacturing supply was being limited as well.
Speaker B:So everybody was scrambling to try to find some way to have something made.
Speaker B:And then there's a learning process and training and education.
Speaker B:So we've continued to battle through that, and the last couple years, we've spent about three and a half million dollars working in one of the factories to really teach them the process and quality control and manufacturing tolerances.
Speaker B:And it's our design and our mater.
Speaker B:We supply to them in order to be able to make the balls.
Speaker B:So, you know, this year is pretty exciting for us.
Speaker B:We, you know, we had a struggle, you know, to say the least, the last couple years with supply and with Some manufacturers.
Speaker B:But this year we feel like we're in a pretty good spot and, and we're pretty excited to launch these two new products that continue to be based off of feedback from our consumers and our customers who tell us what they like and don't like about products that we have and then how can we improve on them and make them better.
Speaker A:You've got, excuse me, the PR3 and the PR4 coming out.
Speaker A:Are they out right now?
Speaker A:We're right around the launch date.
Speaker B:Yeah, the launch date is actually today and it's.
Speaker B:The shipment is due in.
Speaker B:It was due in on the 9th of April, but it got delayed a little bit, so they're expected it to be here somewhere around the 18th to the 20th.
Speaker B:So pre orders are happening starting today and moving forward and we plan to, to ship all the preorders and everything out early, early to mid next week.
Speaker A:Oh, excellent, excellent.
Speaker A:So I'm looking at my notes here.
Speaker A:The PR3 has got a compression rate of 80 to 85.
Speaker A:You might even explain what that means to people as far as compression in a ball and what you said you, you know, took the feedback from customers.
Speaker A:But how long does it take to design something like this?
Speaker A:I mean, that's your world right there because you've designed a lot of golf balls over the years, not just for Snell, but for other companies.
Speaker A:But how long does that process take from kind of start to finish?
Speaker B:Most of most of the main products that get launched take somewhere about two to two and a half years.
Speaker B:In the development side to it, it's a, it's a cycle of four or five cycles that we go through where we create an idea, a concept, and then we, we deliver some prototype specs to the factory, they make the products, send it back to us, we test and then we, we redefine it and then we start to work with some players to fine tune it.
Speaker B:And then we go back and forth with the factory.
Speaker B:There's a lot of material development that we do outside on our own and bring it into the factory.
Speaker B:So training them on processing and how to mold it and, and do the right things for material handling is all part of it as well.
Speaker B:And then it goes into a pilot phase which is a smaller amount of golf balls are run, then it released into a production phase, which everything's made at higher volumes and, and prepare for the launch.
Speaker B:So overall it takes about two to two and a half years from the initial thought moving forward.
Speaker B:And then we redefine that as we move along.
Speaker A:Is the chemistry different?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:So in the gulf world today, there's, there's a, a couple of types of materials that are out there.
Speaker B:One of them is an ionomer or sirloin material which is in most of the golf balls that, that are there today, either in the mantle layer for an ionomer mantle layer or the COVID on a lot of the two piece or lower priced golf balls that are out there.
Speaker B:And then there's urethane.
Speaker B:So the urethane also comes in three different forms as well.
Speaker B:One is a cast process where two liquids come together and create a thermoset cross link material.
Speaker B:One is a thermoplastic urethane which is just injection molded and reuse it.
Speaker B:And then one is a cross linked thermoplastic urethane that actually cross links during the process to create a thermoset type of material.
Speaker B:So we do a lot of that design work with material research, material companies and compounding companies outside of the golf world.
Speaker B:And then we'll come up with the formulation we want and bring that into the factory to, to make the products that we want.
Speaker A:So what do you do?
Speaker A:Just sit around and say, if I could use Material X a little more, it would, you know, Sunday night when you're, all the good TV shows are over and you're just sitting there quietly, what if I did this?
Speaker A:I mean what.
Speaker A:And like I said, this is your world.
Speaker A:But what prompts you to just go down that road?
Speaker B:Most of its experience.
Speaker B:I mean, I've been fortunate to be doing this now for these 37 years and worked with, you know, the best players in the world for a majority of that time with Titleist and Tailor Made.
Speaker B:So designing products for the best players in the world where they fine tune every shot and looking at every launch and spin and flight and trajectories and so understanding the whole tea to green performance, working with the Tour players is the experience that we're able to take.
Speaker B:Now when you work to consumers and the customers that we have that actually buy the product, their demands are not always the same.
Speaker B:I don't have any.
Speaker B:My customers typically don't call me and talk about four irons that may knuckle and fall out of the sky like the Tour players do.
Speaker B:So the feedback that we get back on a level of feel or a level of spin or trajectory or, or I can't tell differences or anything like that.
Speaker B:Me being able to change the size of the cores or the thickness of the mantles, the thickness of the COVID the materials in the mantle that could create a different sound for a level of feel.
Speaker B:The resiliency or specifications of the material that can create rebound and spin rate of a golf ball inside, depending on where you hit it.
Speaker B:So if you look into be able to add spin to a wedge, it would be this part of a design.
Speaker B:If you're looking for mid irons, it's this part.
Speaker B:Long irons, it's this part.
Speaker B:And the driver is basically the whole ball.
Speaker B:So separating out the ball into layers can add different levels of performance.
Speaker B:And then that material development with tensile strength, elongation, flex modulus variations, those can go into the layers to get a desired level of spin, performance, sound and feel.
Speaker A:And how when you take a ball and you've added more spin to it through the design.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Or potentially for depends on the player.
Speaker A:But it all comes down to what you do on the green too, isn't it?
Speaker A:So to how do you balance that?
Speaker A:Because you could have a ball that goes a gazillion miles, and we'll talk about that later in the show.
Speaker A:But how do you balance that with what you want to do when you're using the flat stick?
Speaker B:Well, that's so.
Speaker B:So when you get to the putter part of it, the part of side to.
Speaker B:To it in R D for golf balls is not done a whole lot because the putters have all different inserts to them.
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:So somebody's personal level of feel of, of a louder sound or a softer sound could be just based on the insert of a putter that they use.
Speaker B:So it's very hard for us to.
Speaker B:To do that.
Speaker B:That part of it, what we do is from the, from the short wedge spin back.
Speaker B:You can control that spin and launch by the hardness and the flex modulus of the COVID So the COVID works with the mantle layer on the little short pitches.
Speaker B:The COVID works with the mantle layer and the core on the mid and long irons.
Speaker B:And then the mantle and the core work on the driver.
Speaker B:So the ball, when you compress the ball every time you can add a layer, you can add some level of performance.
Speaker B:It also adds some level of cost.
Speaker B:So my recommendation for some players is, you know, if you're not really good enough to get that benefit of a fourth layer in a, in a tour type of golf ball, you know, it's not really going to help you too much.
Speaker B:If it can save you money to not spend on it, you're better off doing that.
Speaker B:And, and, and if you are good enough for it, the benefit of that wear is there for you to Try to help your performance.
Speaker B:Teeter Green.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:We're talking with Dean Snell.
Speaker A:Excuse me, CEO of Snell Golf, Snell Golf Balls, which I happen to use.
Speaker A:We're going to take a break.
Speaker A:We're going to be right back with Dean and more here on Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Stay with us.
Speaker A:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Speaker A:Here.
Speaker A:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try Birdie ball.
Speaker A:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual Birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of those, and they work great.
Speaker A:Birdieball.com Foreign.
Speaker A:Welcome back to Grilling at the green.
Speaker A:I'm J.T.
Speaker A:Today we are talking with Dean Snell, CEO of Snell Golf.
Speaker A:By the way, this portion of the show is brought to you by Snell Golf.
Speaker A:There's no correlation there.
Speaker A:I'll tell you that right now.
Speaker A:But go to snellgolf.com they've got two new balls coming out, the PR3 and the PR4.
Speaker A:I'm kind of fascinated to and excited to see them.
Speaker A:Dean, how hard is the golf ball business?
Speaker A:Man, there is.
Speaker A:When you were back working For Titleist and TaylorMade, there was a handful of companies that put out good golf balls, okay?
Speaker A:And now it seems like every other month, there's another company that I see pop up online that says, hey, we've got the furthest, the softest, whatever their pitch is, you know, does that dilute the market at all?
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker B:I mean, this, this people that will go and try different products there.
Speaker B:There are companies overseas that make a golf ball and they sell it to a bunch of different companies.
Speaker B:It's a standard kind of golf ball that they'll sell to multiple companies and just have them put their own logos on them.
Speaker B:That's a little different than what we do.
Speaker B:You know, fortunately, I've been doing this for a long time and have a lot of knowledge of a lot of patents and intellectual property and, and things that work in the ball.
Speaker B:So we can do some things that are a little bit different than just buying a ball off the shelf.
Speaker B:My goal has always been to try to create performance in the golf balls like, like I've done in the past, but make them affordable to the consumer.
Speaker B:So the cost to make our golf ball is not any cheaper than it is for the big guys.
Speaker B:It's just we don't have the added cost of the tour, the reps, the, the TV contracts, and things that drive prices up.
Speaker B:So we try to keep it.
Speaker B:I know this year, pricing and golf balls has gone out of control again.
Speaker B:They've gone up another $5 or so a dozen.
Speaker B:So the toward golf balls now are up in the 58-62 dollar a dozen range.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And it's, that's expensive, you know, and it's expensive sport to play.
Speaker B:So if we can bring a level of performance that fits the majority of golfers that are out there, but still keep it affordable, it may help grow the game.
Speaker B:It may let you play two rounds instead of one.
Speaker B:And that's kind of the goal that we've done and try to use the experience of an understanding to create products that benefit the average golfer without kind of breaking the bank.
Speaker A:The average golfer, which I'm part of that group, if you will.
Speaker A:Should they be really worried about high compression balls versus this?
Speaker A:I mean, should they get something maybe the middle of the road if they're really out there playing three times a week and they, they're trying to win the club championship or whatever.
Speaker A:I understand that.
Speaker A:But the average golfer that maybe gets out once a month and you know, waxing around with his friends and buddies, should they be worried about that as much?
Speaker B:Everything has a price.
Speaker B:You know, the, the big companies spend a lot of money on endorsements and pro contracts and you know, to win the, win the ball count or when the driver count or the iron count or whatever it is.
Speaker B:And that's, that's a marketing play that they have and it works.
Speaker B:I mean they're very successful with it now because somebody plays a golf ball on tour that's made pretty much for them.
Speaker B:And I've done, I did this for 30 years.
Speaker B:You design balls for Tour quiz doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be the right golf ball for you, the average golfer, or it's going to make you do what they do.
Speaker B:So I don't put anybody's game down because everybody has a different game and everybody's at a different level.
Speaker B:Yeah, and everybody's at a different financial position too to, you know, people.
Speaker B:People buy expensive cars and cheaper cars, but all the cars work okay.
Speaker B:So most of the golf balls today are made, are all pretty good.
Speaker B:You know, if you're really a really solid, good, good player and take the golf balls out and test them head to head and see if you can tell a difference.
Speaker B:And, and if you can, then, then keep spending $60 a dozen, but I'm pretty sure you're probably not going to be able to and then we can save you $30 a dozen.
Speaker B:So there's a, you know, there's a, there's a benefit to understanding what golf balls do in the real world and what reality is and perception and reality don't always match.
Speaker B:So, you know, I think there's a, there's a whole bunch of people that play things based on logos and brand names, which I don't blame them, but, but there's also a lot of other good products that are available, you know, that, that could save people, people a lot of money and, and not really sacrifice any performance.
Speaker A:How should they, if they're going, if they go to the range or their backyard or wherever they can hit balls in full swing balls, how should they test it for the feel for that individual golfer?
Speaker A:Let's say they're a high handicapper and they've got a sleeve of Pro V1s and they've got a sleeve of Snells and they've got a sleeve of, you know, Callaways, whatever it is, and they need to hit it.
Speaker A:Should they hit it, should they try to get the feel for that with their 7, their driver?
Speaker A:What should it be?
Speaker A:I mean, I know it's going to vary on different people, but as a.
Speaker B:Thumbnail, yeah, I, I've stuck by this, this process for quite a while now.
Speaker B:My, I do not believe it's worth ever trying to find a golf ball with a driver.
Speaker B:There's been some fitting things done in the past where you hit three shots with their ball, three shots with this ball, and the guy will tell you, look, that ball six yards longer.
Speaker B:That's the ball you should play, you know, and that's, that's really, to me is misleading and not really accurate.
Speaker B:Golf balls today are all pretty good off the tee.
Speaker B:My suggestion has always been if you really want to do a good test with golf balls, go go out on the golf course for three or four holes on a Sunday afternoon when it's quiet or whatever and take a two piece, a three piece, a four piece golf ball out.
Speaker B:If it's with your own brand that you like, do do it with a two piece, three piece, four piece European golf ball and hit 100 yard shots, then move in, hit 70, 30 little chips and putts and then go to the next screen and do the same thing 100 yards, 70, 30 chips, putts, you know, and test the golf balls yourself head to head.
Speaker B:And when you walk off the third or fourth hole, you might say, gee, shall we like the way that one came off a little higher or lower, spun a little more, released a little more, felt softer, felt Firm, whatever it is that you as a player prefers, then, then that's the ball you can now take and you can go back and work your driver so you can tweak your driver for distance if you want.
Speaker B:If you walk off and you can't tell a difference on any of them.
Speaker B:That's my point where now you can buy the cheapest one and go until your game gets to that point where you can tell a difference.
Speaker B:Conversely, if you're a better player or a good player, I would do the same test with all the top golf balls.
Speaker B:Take a Snout PR3, a Pro V1, and a Chrome Tour and a TP5 or whatever you want and test those balls and start at 150.
Speaker B:And then so now you get shots into the wind a little bit, you see how the ball reacts.
Speaker B:And again play.
Speaker B:Play three or four holes, hitting multiple shots from different areas coming in, test head to head.
Speaker B:And that's where they're different.
Speaker B:Golf balls are different today from 150 or 100 yards and in.
Speaker B:It's also where you score.
Speaker B:It's your scoring zone.
Speaker B:It's where you get better, where your game improves.
Speaker B:So this is where you want to test them.
Speaker B:Right around the green back to 100 yards or right around the green back to 150.
Speaker B:Go head to head with them, multiple golf balls with different constructions and see, see what you like and, and then, and then come back and then put a price tag on them and then see which one you really want to play.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:We're talking with Dean Snell from Snell Golf and Dean and I are going to take a quick break.
Speaker A:We're going to be back with more grilling at the green after this.
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Speaker A:Welcome back to grilling at 39 JT.
Speaker A:Don't forget the North Valley Challenge is getting ready for its first event April 25th.
Speaker A:And you can go to northvalleychallenge.com it's free to sign up.
Speaker A:You have to pay your tournament fees.
Speaker A:There's four tournaments involved and you're playing for some great stuff for the end of the year.
Speaker A:Besides some bragging rights we hit our last year was our first year.
Speaker A:We kind of did very well with it as far as we got some veterans teams in there to play, we got some ladies teams in there to play.
Speaker A:We helped a lot of people and helped a lot of communities.
Speaker A:So go to north valleychallenge.com Snell Golf was a big proponent of that last year, too.
Speaker A:So I want to thank Dean for that.
Speaker A:I know you work for the big companies, but did you ever sometimes kind of say, oh gosh, you know, or that's not the word I would use.
Speaker A:But we're on public radio so I have to have to use that language team.
Speaker A:But their advertising campaigns and stuff kind of get overwhelming at times in comparison to what you do at Snell.
Speaker A:I think you guys do a great job and you know, your, part of that is organic and part of it is the quality of the product.
Speaker A:You got yahoos like me out here playing with them and trying to get convert hurts all the time.
Speaker A:But like you said in an earlier segment, those big companies spend a lot of money.
Speaker A:Are they spending all that money for an extra 0.05% of this Golf ball market or.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're spending money, but most of them have a pretty, pretty heavy, heavy market share side to it.
Speaker B:Some, some bigger than others.
Speaker B:It's, it's a, it's one model.
Speaker B:It's one way to make it work and it's very successful for them.
Speaker B:Their advertisement is focused mostly on the tour or the, or the wins or the ball count or the driver count.
Speaker B:And their ads and things they put out have players holding the golf ball up when they win with it.
Speaker B:So, and it works.
Speaker B:I mean, you can't, you can't say anything bad about them.
Speaker B:The cost of the product is reflected in that term.
Speaker B:But their market share numbers are pretty good.
Speaker B:In the direct to consumer world that we're in, we don't have market share numbers because we don't sell in the on and off course places that record them.
Speaker B:So it doesn't, it doesn't reflect what's happening out there for us, but for our word of mouth and our consumers and our customers.
Speaker B:You know, like you had mentioned speaking to the groups in the foursomes or talking to them or sharing some, some things on social media or sharing an ad that you may see on social media.
Speaker B:Those, those are the, the ground grassroots network that we use to, to continue to grow.
Speaker B:And I try to read if someone writes a review or writes a comment or something to us, good or bad, I try to read them all.
Speaker B:I keep a piece of paper on my desk and, and when new products are launched, when people give feedback, I read them and I fill in the boxes, pros and cons of different levels of performance.
Speaker B:And when a box fills up, to me, that's a voice of our customer.
Speaker B:So if somebody's looking for something that would be X type of performance when that box filled up, if there's enough people that have that voice, that's the next design that I start to work on versus the big guys work off the Tour.
Speaker B:You know, you work with the Tour players and you know, when you look at the Darrell survey on, on the Titleist pro V ones, in any event, you'll look and there'll be six or seven different pro V ones on the Darwin survey and six or seven different, probably one X's, because the Tour players don't want to change every single year.
Speaker B:And also they have products that maybe fit their, their performance a little better, that don't fit the big market better, so they don't sell them.
Speaker B:You know, so, so that, that's kind of a little game that's played.
Speaker B:You can win a ball count when you have 12 different golf balls out there on Tour and you pay people money.
Speaker B:You know, that can happen pretty easily, you know, and for us, we've respectfully declined six or seven tour players that have asked to play, only because that would put us in that market of being on Tour, supporting them, you know, and if they win, you know, it's a big thing.
Speaker B:They get bonuses for winning and things like that.
Speaker B:So that all just drives the cost up.
Speaker B:So I've respectfully declined the office from the Tour players to play them to try to keep the cost down and continue to take care of the customers that actually buy the golf balls.
Speaker A:Yeah, we had a, we had an assistant pro come by the booth at the Portland Golf show.
Speaker A:And I think I sent Jason a clip of it.
Speaker A:In fact, I know I did.
Speaker A:He was from Chambers Bay, and he.
Speaker A:And he walked by and he goes, oh, Snell golf balls.
Speaker A:And before I could say anything, he, he said, I passed my.
Speaker A:I'M going to say it wrong.
Speaker A:TPA tap certification with Snell Golf.
Speaker A:And so he, he was a, A PGA pro then, you know, teaching pro type thing.
Speaker A:But he was, he said I, he said, I haven't picked one of these up because that, evidently that's not what they use at Chambers Bay.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:I don't know the backstory, but he was really tickled.
Speaker A:So I gave him a sleeve for, for his bag, you know, like that.
Speaker A:But, you know, that's a good story that people, you know, don't think of that in that realm of something other than maybe Titleist or Tailor Made stuff.
Speaker A:So anyway, that was good.
Speaker A:You ever scratch your head and say, why the hell did I do this?
Speaker B:No, I don't.
Speaker B:You know, I.
Speaker B:My family is from Massachusetts.
Speaker B:I was working at Tailor Made out in California.
Speaker B:And, you know, I always had this idea to try to help give back to the consumers that pay and support the game.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:With some of the knowledge and things that I've been able to develop over the years.
Speaker B:And I wanted to wait till my kids got out of college and through school and before I took a chance and I said, I'll take a shot at it and give it, Give it a try.
Speaker B:And, you know, we, the first five or six years, we grew 30 to 40% every year.
Speaker B:And that was only based on the amount of supply we could get.
Speaker B:You know, the manufacturer, we were maxing them out at the factory.
Speaker B:And like I said, when Covid hit, it kind of put a wrinkle in the whole, in the whole golf industry from a supply point of view, with material and, and ships being out in the water for six months instead of four weeks, and the shipping costs going from, you know, $2,000 a container to $27,000 a container.
Speaker B:So, you know, and then even the tariff side to it has been a.
Speaker B:Been a challenge for the last couple of years.
Speaker B:So we've kind of stayed in there and hung in there and continued to push.
Speaker B:And, you know, this year for us, the, the quality, the process control and the golf ball side to it, where we're pretty excited about it, to be at a position that feels, you know, a lot better and a lot more comfortable for us this year.
Speaker B:But I've totally enjoyed it up.
Speaker B:I have a group of people that work for me, and they all still do.
Speaker B:We all go in in the morning.
Speaker B:The whole company packs golf balls, myself included.
Speaker B:We go out in the back, we turn music on, we print the orders, we pack them all.
Speaker B:And then, you know, in the afternoon everybody goes to the desk and does their jobs.
Speaker B:So keep it fun.
Speaker B:And people have families and kids are in high school, softball and baseball, you know, go see your kids play.
Speaker B:And sure, we try to keep it kind of very, very fun and friendly and, and you know, it's, it's.
Speaker A:It.
Speaker B:Everybody has a life and this isn't a, it's not the corporate world that I lived in.
Speaker B:It's more of a private thing that I'm enjoying and, and I have no regrets at all.
Speaker A:I'd come work for you, you know, if you did that.
Speaker A:I'd cook too, because I.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:That's even better.
Speaker A:I'd cook.
Speaker A:We whip up a couple grills in the back and I'll.
Speaker A:Everybody's lunch will be ready.
Speaker A:Has, has the, the tariffs and the delays kind of started to calm down as far as getting the product in?
Speaker B:The, the delays have calmed down a little bit.
Speaker B:Yeah, the, the shipments cost back, you know, four or five years ago went crazy.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Some of the big companies, non golf companies, are actually gobbling up all the containers and, and paying, you know, $27,000 for them to bring toys at Christmas and things like that.
Speaker B:So it made it tough to even get a container booked.
Speaker B:But when it was, it was expensive.
Speaker B:The tariffs last year were fluctuating.
Speaker B:You know, in the trouble.
Speaker B:Part of the tariff is a small business for us is we.
Speaker B:You don't get, you don't get hit with it until it arrives at your port.
Speaker B:So when they would come into Boston, I'd have 10 days to pay the tariff.
Speaker B:And when it left the factory, which took, you know, four or five weeks to get here, I didn't know what it was going to be changing.
Speaker B:So last year, sometimes they came in and it added a significant amount to the, to the dozens.
Speaker B:But I didn't pass that on to the consumer.
Speaker B:I, I kind of took that hit myself, hoping that this thing would finally get settled and raising golf ball prices for us, $10 a dozen isn't.
Speaker B:Wasn't gonna work, so I didn't do that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And now this year, my understanding is that in that first shipment for us is coming in, you know, next week, my understanding is that it's a little bit more controlled and a little bit lower in the tariff side to it.
Speaker B:So it's one of the reasons why you see in these golf ball prices on some of the big companies go up five, six dollars a dozen is they're passing that back on to the consumer.
Speaker A:Sure, sure, that's, that's a Tough, tough deal.
Speaker A:We're going to take another break in just a second here.
Speaker A:I do want to remind you again two things.
Speaker A:If you want to see Snell golf balls, go to snellgolf.com very easy website to use.
Speaker A:You can get your orders in and get the pre orders in for the PR3, the PR4.
Speaker A:And don't forget to go to NorthValleyChallenge.com sign up.
Speaker A:It's free.
Speaker A:Like I said, you can pick play in all four tournaments.
Speaker A:You can play in one tournament.
Speaker A:There's great prizes, great raffle prizes.
Speaker A:You might even see a Snell golf ball around there or two.
Speaker A:Anyway, Dean and I are going to take a break.
Speaker A:Like I said, we're going to come back and wrap up the show.
Speaker A:And don't forget, you can listen to this on golf Newsnet.
Speaker A:We'll be right back.
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Speaker A:Welcome back to grilling.
Speaker A:It's green.
Speaker A:I'm gt.
Speaker A:We've got Dean Snell with us from Snell Golf.
Speaker A:Dean's gonna stick around for a few minutes after the show and do the after hours thing.
Speaker A:I've got some new questions for him.
Speaker A:I'm sure he's just waited all week to hear those like that.
Speaker A:We, I think we talked about this.
Speaker A:I don't know when last time we were on a couple years ago or something.
Speaker A:Dean but has the distance thing it seems to me to have everybody in a dither.
Speaker A:My position, just me is that the amateur golfer, the weekend warriors needs all the distance they can get for the most part.
Speaker A:I mean if they're just slashing them in the weeds all the time, it doesn't really matter.
Speaker A:But if they're, if they're trying to play a pretty decent game, good round with their friends and if they had another 20ft or 30ft sometimes that can make a difference for them depending on their competitive nature.
Speaker A:I kind of again this is just me.
Speaker A:But when the powers that be come out and say, well, the rollback will be negligible for the weekend warriors, it may be negligible for the pros because they may then hit their wedge 160 instead of 155.
Speaker A:Mortals don't do that.
Speaker A:But I just wanted to get your take on it.
Speaker A:I'm not sold on it.
Speaker A:But then again, in overview, I don't think it's going to matter that much.
Speaker A:But anything we can do to help the amateur golfers, the, when I say amateur, the weekend warriors, I think should, should still happen.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a, it's.
Speaker B:I don't understand it, to be honest with you.
Speaker B:I mean, it's the distance gains that have happened over the last 20, 20 plus years in golf, in my opinion, has been 25% the golf ball, 25% the driver, 25% the player, and 25% the agronomy.
Speaker B:So if you, if you add those up, you're numbers, you know, the beef has been.
Speaker B:And I know Jack Nicklaus has been a proponent of slowing the ball down, saying it's gotten too fast and the ball hasn't gotten any faster.
Speaker B:It's the same velocity that we've had to do when we had Tour bolota golf balls.
Speaker B:We have a max limit.
Speaker B:We meet that max limit, so they don't go any faster by design.
Speaker B:The ball speed of a driver when I started was 160 miles an hour for the tour.
Speaker B:And now today, when you watch on TV, they're 200 miles an hour.
Speaker B:That's not the ball going 40 miles an hour faster.
Speaker B:That's drivers being bigger, players being stronger, turns being faster, driver heads being huge with big sweet spots.
Speaker B:And then balls hit in fairways and roll quite a bit.
Speaker B:So there's a lot of things to roll it back.
Speaker B:I understand that the shorter courses, the historic courses have a, a concern about it, but if you, if you're concerned about the Tour side to it, I've said this multiple times.
Speaker B:The simple solution for the Tour is to give them a maximum T height.
Speaker B:If you give them a max t height of 1 inch, they can't hit the ball anymore.
Speaker B:Up on high on the face, which goes high, launch low, spin so low on the face, add spin.
Speaker B:It's a significant amount of spin.
Speaker B:500, 600 Rpms of spin is 15 to 20 yards shorter in distance.
Speaker B:And then they pick the tee up and go.
Speaker B:When they leave Monday morning, we can continue to play our courses.
Speaker B:Nobody I play with is asking to move Back the guys as you play and they actually move forward.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And also watch on tv, most of the people like to see a little birdie shootout at the end coming down on Sunday.
Speaker B:Not, not guys hitting four irons into greens and struggling to make power.
Speaker B:That's the U.S. open.
Speaker B:It happens once a year.
Speaker B:Kind of fun to watch them struggle a little bit, but it's not fun to watch 40 weeks a year.
Speaker B:So I just, I don't understand it.
Speaker B:The other side is if you really, if you're really going to do something that's going to roll back the ball 25 yards or 15 yards, you're pushing everybody back.
Speaker B:So on Tour, the longer hit is at a 360 are now going to be 335, 325, whatever.
Speaker B:But the other guys that were 300 are now going to be 285.
Speaker B:So this, they're going to be hitting 5, 6, 7 irons while these guys are going to be hitting 8, 9 wedges.
Speaker B:And you're probably going to start to make it the way the longer hitters actually can win more.
Speaker B:You know.
Speaker B: osed to have this adoption in: Speaker B:Well, what do you think is going to happen for two years when the Tour players are paid multimillion dollars to play golf balls on Tour and they're 20 yards shorter by design, no one's going to buy them.
Speaker B:So the endorsements that they're going to have, the money they're going to spend for to make a ball that's marked different, labeled different, no one's going to go buy that.
Speaker B:When on the shelf you can get the one that is quote unquote longer.
Speaker B:So you lose that.
Speaker B: g on now to make them both be: Speaker B:Water it a little bit that one week the Tour is there and make it softer, cut some roll down, shape the rough a little bit in the landing areas.
Speaker B:You use a restricted height tee just for those events and, and then the rest of the game we now for us, the perception and reality is another part.
Speaker B:Again, people believe a golf ball is 20 yards shorter.
Speaker B:They're going to think it's 20 yards shorter for them too.
Speaker B:And as it moves back in speed and as you get shorter on your driver distance, that gap is not going to stay 20.
Speaker B:Comes down to a, a very small amount now, taking consistency into it and how good you hit your driver and do it the same every time.
Speaker B:You probably have more than 20 yards difference from drive to drive anyway, you know, so, so that perception, reality side to it will be there.
Speaker B:But I don't understand the fuss in golf when it's kind of growing and you want young kids to get involved to, to try to roll back something and make something shorter when, when there's a simple solution for the tour and the elite colle week they're at your course, you can solve that problem for that one week and then when they leave, cut the grass, let it take the water out of it or use a longer tee.
Speaker A:Yep, I, I agree wholeheartedly.
Speaker A:Gene Snell, CEO of Snell Golf.
Speaker A:SnellGolf.com is the website.
Speaker A:The PR3 and PR4 will be shipped and stuff very shortly.
Speaker A:I mean they're on their way to the, to the, the warehouse.
Speaker A:But as far as Dean and his group back there packing balls, wishing I was back there barbecuing some steaks for him or something, that'll be probably next week.
Speaker A:Dean, thank you and stick around.
Speaker A:We're going to talk to, to Dean with the after hour stuff.
Speaker A:That's it for this week.
Speaker A:Don't forget to go to the North Valley Challenge also.
Speaker A:And like I always say, go out there, play some golf, have some fun and be kind.
Speaker A:Take care, everybody.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is produced by.
Speaker B:JTSD Productions, LLC in association with SAL Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserved.
