Our discussion today explores the intricacies of power hitting, a topic that has garnered considerable interest among baseball enthusiasts. We delve into what it truly means to hit for power, distinguishing between mere home runs and the broader concept of driving the ball effectively. The insights shared by our esteemed guests, including Cincinnati Reds Hall-of-Famer, George Foster, Founder of MD&I Baseball Academy, Rick Finley, and Ethan Dungan owner of Glovehound Baseball Glove Repair Shop, illuminate the technical and psychological aspects of successful power hitting. We also explore the importance of technique, body mechanics, and mental preparedness, emphasizing how these factors can significantly influence a player's performance at the plate. Join us as we unpack these elements and provide valuable advice for aspiring hitters aiming to enhance their skills in this vital area of the game.

Description

What does it mean to hit for power and should every player learn to do it? Find out in this episode on The Complete Game Podcast.

Podcast Partner Bios

Ethan Dungan - Owner of Glovehound Baseball Glove Repair Shop. Ethan played for several teams during his career including Midland and Fairfield High School. He now operates Glovehound from his shop in Fairfield, OH.

Rick Finley - Founder of MD&I Academy Baseball Training Facility in Fairfield, OH. Rick has successfully coached and trained hundreds of players at the Select, Travel, and College levels in both baseball and softball.

George Foster - Major League Player with the Giants, Reds, & Mets. NL MVP 1977, 5-Time All-Star, Silver Slugger and member of the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame. Founder of George Foster Baseball where he offers private baseball instruction.

Timestamps to relevant points within the episode:

• 00:22 - Introduction to Baseball Discussions
• 00:29 - Power Hitting: An Overview
• 11:15 - The Evolution of Home Run Hitting in Baseball
• 26:14 - Hitting for Power: Understanding Techniques and Strategies
• 36:13 - The Importance of Bunting in Baseball
• 54:22 - Teaching Hitting: From Past to Present
• 01:05:15 - The Importance of Coaching in Youth Sports
• 01:10:16 - Navigating the Challenges of Coaching

Key Takeaways:

• In this episode, we took a deep dive into power hitting, emphasizing its distinction from merely hitting home runs.
• Every player possesses the potential to develop power hitting skills through proper techniques and consistent practice.
• A comprehensive understanding of hitting encompasses both physical mechanics and mental strategies for success at the plate.
• We discussed the importance of involving parents in the training process to enhance their child's development and understanding of the game.

Links

• glovehound.com
• mdaiacademy.com
• georgefosterbaseball.com
• twocreativedigital.com

Teaser

What does it mean to be an effective pitcher and should every player learn to pitch? Find out next week on The Complete Game Podcast.

Companies mentioned:

• Glovehound
• MDI Baseball Academy
• George Foster Baseball

Welcome to the Complete Game podcast, where we're all about baseball with Ethan Dungan, owner of Glovehound Baseball glove repair shop. Rick Finley, founder of MDI Baseball Academy and the creator of George Foster Baseball, the MVP himself, Reds hall of Famer George Foster.

I'm your host, Greg Dungan. Now let's talk baseball. All right, so today we're gonna get started. We're all talk. We're talking about power hitting today.

Okay.

And something that I think everybody, you know, kind of wonders about. My question to you guys who have done it and taught it and coached it especially, is, what does it mean to hit for power?

So we're going to talk about that in a minute, but first we're going to start with a segment we call Name Five. So I want to kind of go around the room here, and I want to name five players that come to your mind when you think of power hitting.

Rick, why don't you lead us off?

Okay. Power hitting. And I like Shohei Otani.

Oh, okay.

Shohei.

He took one of my names.

Yeah. Is my. My guy, man. He's not just a power hitter. He's an athlete. Hits for power, hits for average, and it's complete hitter.

Cool.

That's pretty good.

All right, who else is on your list, Rick?

Mookie Betts.

Oh, yeah.

Freddie Freeman. Good one.

Yes.

I love Freddy, man. Freddie, can he stay inside the ball, man, he wear out that left side.

Yeah, buddy.

Yeah, look. And he's a lefty that can hit Oppo. So I like Freddy. And between Mike Trout, Bryce Harper, Miguel.

Cabrera.

He naming them all now.

All right, that's it. That's all I had to do right there.

All right, George, what you got?

Well, he named out. No, the main guy.

You know, we'll let you go first next time.

That's right. I don't know why.

Yes.

So the main guy, I. I admire this guy. He's a babe. Roof of the day as Aaron Judge.

I mean, this guy, when I had first seen him in the home run hitting contest, I said, this guy look freaky because look how tall he is. And didn't have great control coordination up there. And talk about hitting for power, hitting for average.

You know, he dominate, and I just love to watch him go up to the plate and. But I know the pitchers don't like it, but, you know, it's like commonplace for him to hit 50 home runs, and then he's getting up to.

It's like there's no limit to what he can do. And he's Doing it legitimately. So Aaron Judge really stands out. He's number one. If there was a higher than number one, you know, he, he's up there.

Yes. Another guy which I love as a hitter is. We're talking about Miguel Cabrera.

Yeah.

Triple crown winner.

Yeah, yeah. This guy, he, he puts not.

They talk about putting the ball in play, but he put the ball in play with authority and he, he was able to stay around longer at an older age because he's able to drive the ball to the off the field. And I just one of the key to being able to be a power hitter, being able to hit the ball to the off the field and have that great approach.

But those two guys really stand out. Mike Trout, we had mentioned earlier when he first come into the league, he dominated and of course it's shown by his MVP awards.

But I just love to sit and watch those guys swing the bat and I love when they come to great American, just go watch them take batting practice and how they just launch the ball. But we go way back though. Not really way back. But Mike Schmidt, here's a guy that, oh yes, you know, he was consistent.

But his first year he had a batting average under.200. I think he had like 29 home runs from then on. This guy took off.

Yeah, he did.

And we just wouldn't we play against him, just hopefully that we have enough runs to surpass whatever home runs he may hit that particular game. Gang. When he gets hot, it's going to be tough. This guy, he doesn't hit. Didn't hit for a lot of power, but I love, well, two of them. Reggie Jackson.

Yes.

Because I, I had met Reggie when I were younger in, in in Arizona and this guy talking about power build, he, he always hit the weights and it was intimidating looking and.

But he gave it all when he went up to the plate and you saw in the World Series that time against the Dodgers, hit three home runs but nobody's going to thr.

Yeah, that's true.

Kind of big.

And he had the world's greatest mustache.

It was good.

It was a good mustache.

But the other party was a great salesman.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, he was.

He had a lot of charisma.

He did had the Reggie bar. And the thing. Other thing that stood out for me when he went to.

From the Yankees to the Angels, he had an incentive clause in his contract and if you know they surpassed so many people in attendance. So he, they surpassed it. But the money that he received, he gave to the ground recruit.

Oh, that's Cool.

So that's been able to. To share the wealth.

That's awesome.

But that's some of the guys that really stood out for me. I keep saying last but, but this guy comes to mind. Dick Allen. He had a. I think a 42 ounce bat. Yeah.

Wow.

I just remember, remember this scene? So he hits a home run and then the pitcher, one of the polling pitcher for the other team had said something to him was at first base.

So he threw his mitt down and walked towards the guy. But nobody else backed that guy up like no, this is Big Al. You know, we want to be able to have a longer career.

I call that a business decision.

That was a good business decision.

That's good. Ethan, who's on your list, buddy?

I picked five guys from my era growing up and I lean more towards power hitters. But overall, when I think hitting, the first guy that comes to mind is Albert Pujols.

Yeah.

How did we miss him?

Yeah.

I mean as, as a Reds fan, you know, he was not my favorite. I didn't, I didn't like him when he played for the Reds or when he played against the Reds, but I liked him every other time, you know.

But just a, just an all around great hitter. Yes.

Give us some stats. Remember 10 years straight?

Oh, yes.

300. 300 batting average. I'm with 30. 30 home runs, 100 RBIs. That is uncanny.

Yes. Yeah. And he played for 22 years.

Yeah. That's the other thing is he played a long time in an era where guys don't play that long anymore.

Injuries, hurting feet.

Yeah. Three time mvp. Yeah. And I mean he, and he played in over 150 games from a large chunk of that time.

Yes.

So he embodies that longevity as well. Which is, which is cool. And when, when he went to the Angels, I really thought they were going to the World Series.

You know, probably three times in a row.

Trout.

They were, they were building something and unfortunately it didn't turn out. But Yeah, I thought the Angels were about to be the next. The next problem for sure. Number two is probably my favorite player of all time.

Prince Fielder. I just, I just love the guy.

Wow.

He was just. He was fun to watch. Career ended too soon by injuries, unfortunately. And another NL Central guy that just. That gave the Red problems.

But trivia, not to step on your toe, but a trivia is that him and his dad end up with the same number career home run.

Isn't that funny?

Yes. Yeah.

And they built the same too.

Yeah, that's what Ethan said.

Yeah, yeah. Cecil was a little bit taller, but yeah, Prince had that mass, man. When they say mass equals gas, mass equals power too, man.

Number three on my list is David Ortiz. I mean, being a dh, he made his whole career out of hitting and man, he could, he could just hit the button.

I, I really liked big guys who could hit the ball hard and, and those three are definitely fit that criteria.

That comes from the years when, when Ethan was. Was not as speedy as he.

Remember me, Rick. I was, I was round as I was tall, and so I, I was all those pictures. Yeah, I know you do. I know you do.

So I, you know, trying to find guys that embodied, you know, my ability.

Gave you some hope.

I remember. I remember one year when I was still in little League, I just could not hit the ball. I think it was my first year at kid pitch. I just.

Oh, I was struggling and my average was terrible. And we were looking around the league trying to figure out, you know, who in the MLB was I doing better? Johnny Cuaito.

My average was better than Johnny Cuaito. I hung my hat on that one.

But another tidbit about Ortiz. What? I loved the fact that he proved. I think it was Minnesota wrong because they had. Yeah, I either released or. I know they got rid of it. Yeah.

And then he. It was very impactful. Sometimes you take that as fuel to show. Show others that you can do it.

And I know there's some football fans out there, but Barkley with Philadelphia, he want to prove to the Giants that, hey, you made a bad deal.

Yes.

But it turned out to be great for Philadelphia.

Absolutely. Number four on my list is Ryan Howard.

Twice.

Yeah, I mean, he didn't play for. For very long, but his, his prime was unreal. I mean, it was, it was video game numbers.

Yeah.

He could swing it.

Thanks, Ethan.

I'll say. You got. Your lists are almost identical, so I'm glad I brought some variety to you.

No, that's great.

And then number four is just purely power is Adam Dunn.

Oh, that big donkey.

The big donkey. He didn't average was not his thing. He was. He was there for the long ball.

And he was all or nothing, that's for sure.

But I couldn't, couldn't leave him off my list.

40 home runs. How many years in a row? But eight or nine, but he was consistent in that area.

Yeah, yeah, I was looking through. So I went to. I tried to go to my era here, which was basically the 80s.

Oh, did you find some about Adam Dunn?

Five in a row over 40 or more home runs.

That's, that's, that's cool.

That's crazy.

That's impressive.

A lot of strikeouts, too.

Yes. We don't talk about strikeouts.

But, but the interesting thing, and this is something we can, we can work in later is, you know, I came up in the, in the 80s, so I started really being in. Interested in baseball, like 78, 79, and then kind of came up through there.

And you had the guys in the 60s who were just, you know, hitting machines.

You had the Willie Mays and the Stan Musials and the Harmon Killer Brews and these guys who were just pounding the ball and then all of a sudden we go into the 80s and nobody hits 50 home runs for the entire decade.

Let's exonerate on that.

No.

Yeah. And so guys, when, when, when I think of hitters, I think of guys who don't have near the stats. That what we're talking about.

But they were the hitters when I was a kid. They were guys like Ricky Henderson. They were guys like Eddie Murray.

Yes.

There were guys like Winfield, Brett.

Yeah, Winfield.

Robin Yell.

Robin.

Dale Murphy, hall of Famer, Mike Schmidt. Now, the cool thing about Mike Schmidt, I mean, he played 18 years, and for 13 of those years, he hit more than 30 home runs.

Yeah, right. 13 times.

Led the league eight times.

Eight times was Hank Aaron. What? He never did hit 50. I know, but he was averaging 40. Yeah, he averaged 40, but a guy. We didn't talk much about him.

He had to be around Ethan's time is Ken Griffey Jr. Yeah, I say that because I know his. His dad was my roommate, but he's such a. He wasn't, I would call, violent. Didn't have a violent swing.

He just had a natural, poetic, athletic.

Yes.

Well, he was tall and he had, he had reach and he could just. I mean, just this smooth swing and.

And he was in that, that home run chase in the 90s too, for a good while. And I think he ended up getting hurt halfway through the year, but.

Ran into him.

Yeah, but he was, he. I mean, he was hanging with those guys for a long time.

Ethan and I were talking about like that. That's why, you know, when, when you come through an entire decade where nobody hits 50 home runs, and then it's like, why.

And then all of a sudden, guys are hitting 70 home runs. You're like, what? Like, this ain't right. Like we knew something wasn't right.

You have to have a pause in between there. And it didn't. Hey, it took what, 12 more years for this guy. This guy to hit 50 more home runs. And. But I didn't realize at the time I was excited.

The fact that I did something my idol had done.

Right. Yeah.

But then after that, I mean, when King Griffey Jr. Came to Cincinnati, we have a mutual friend. I said, I told the friend, I said, tell Griffith we're going to try to get him traded. And they said, why?

So he won't break my record.

Yeah. Tell us a little bit about what it felt like to, to hit the same number of home runs as Willie Mays. I mean, that's cool because Willie was a.

Was a mentor for you when you came up in, in San Francisco.

We're growing up, being in Alabama, the name Willie Mays, and it sounds funny, but when you hear a certain. Just like kids today when they hear a name, they want to emulate that player. And in my part is graded as someone who's doing something constructive.

Didn't realize that he is. He's a baseball player. And so I wanted to play major league Baseball, play with the Giants alongside Willie Mays, and all those had come true.

So I got drafted by the Giants. He got a chance to meet Willie Mays. And I saved a lot of meal money because by time he ordered his room service.

Bobby Bonds and I would go around being like, control, making sure that the food was okay. It's okay now you can order some more. But when I hit the 50, 52 home runs, I was excited because I say doing something my idol had done. And.

And then when Cecil hit his 50th home run, I called him, I said, welcome to the club.

That's cool.

1990. Yeah. I was gonna say there was like a, like the asterisk next to it because they let. Had him to lead off. And it was an extra game that they played.

Detroit wasn't going any place at the. At the time, and Spark had let him off so he can get more at bat. So he ended up hitting a home run.

But I didn't really count that because I look at the American League as a junior league. It wasn't really the major league, so. But. But I think I was 10th or 11th in major league history. Not brag, but major league history.

But I was going to charge Cecil because I had stationary saying the level 10, 11. Then he surpassed that and now had to get a new stationary because it wasn't correct.

One of the interesting things about Mike Schmidt was that he hit almost as many doubles as he hit home runs. So he was. He was just as deadly to just move runners as he was to just crank it over the fence. Andre Dawson, there was another one when I was.

Yeah, Andre. Yeah.

I mean, that guy could hit. So, you know, these guys, there were some amazing hitters. But, you know, when I grew up, it was.

It was these guys who were sort of consistent and consistently good, but no one was just tearing it up like that. And I don't know if that was because ballparks were different or the ball was different or the bats were different. I don't know.

Maybe guys weren't as big as they were. I really don't know why. George, you have a theory as to why that. Why the numbers dropped in the 80s?

That's. I'm not really sure either. I just knowing maybe guys start to focus more on average. I'm not really sure in that area. But it's the.

They really like to say, focus on team play. A lot of bunning, a lot of hit running and then a lot of base stealing. You probably look at air.

There are a lot of guys, a lot of speed, team incorporated, more speed. I know when we played the Cardinals, like, I. I don't like to use the word hated to play the Cardinals because they had what I call greyhound.

Vince Coleman.

Yeah, Vince Coleman.

Willie McGee.

Willie McGee.

Oh, my goodness, that man fast.

Those guys are. I said I would love to be in that lineup because Tommy Her, I think, hit 10 home runs one year and drove it 100 RBI so once.

But the thing is, if they hit the ball in the outfield, down the line, I'm not thinking about getting. Keep them at a double, keep them at third base, because these guys were ready to. Ready to score.

And after that, after that game, you're tired because you're running. I think one game I ran more. So at the time, Tony Dorset had the most. Most yardage in National Football League, but I think I surpassed it.

Yeah, I think that the. That's one of the things that really, I think, frustrated me when he was growing up and everything became about pitching and about home run hitting.

And I was used to watching guys move runners and play baseball. And so I was always. There were a lot of years where I just wouldn't even watch it. I'm just like, this isn't even baseball.

It just didn't it didn't feel the same to me because I was waiting for more team play in that kind of thing. So that was.

I think it checked the pitching because a lot of guys who were stars at the pitching wise, and there are lefties that stood out, but there are other young guys would come in and they were very consistent in that period of time. And like, say, the having gone towards more speed and having better pitching help, I guess, prevented as many home runs being hit.

That was one thing I was wondering. So facing somebody like Bob Gibson or Sandy Koufax versus facing somebody like Oral Hershey or Dwight Gooden.

Yes, yes.

What's the difference there?

Well, Bob Gibson is. He's. He's more of a power, power pitcher. And I didn't. Hershey or. He was. He was a pitcher, but he was more crafty and.

And had sinker slider, and he would lure you to sleep, per se. When I go up there, I would took. I would take the first pitch and after that at bat, I said, why did I take that first pitch? Because of.

He had a smooth delivery. And all of a sudden the ball's on you and I think I got it, but it would sink away your slider. And then that thing.

To me, that's when the slider really dominated. People talk about other pitches, but the slider was always the most challenging pitch to hit.

It looks like a fastball, and all of a sudden it drops off the table. And that's why bring the mound. Steve Carlton, when he was with the Cardinals and then he went to the Phillies, he had a fastball curveball.

And I love the fact that you can see that curveball and you had time. And then Tim McCarver, he encouraged Carlton to stop throwing the curveball and go to the slider. And that year he went.

I think The Phillies won 61 games. He won 26. 20 was 26 and nine that particular year. That slider made the big difference from it.

From a teaching perspective, Rick, when you're working with developing pitchers, is the. Is the slider something you. You like to go to a lot? Is that something that's particularly good for pitchers to learn? Kind of walk us through that.

Yeah, I do. Because with the slider, it's really. Is a hybrid fastball with some movement, you know, just depending lefty cut here or move away.

So you want it more moving side to side versus what a curveball's got more of a hook that's easy to. You see a ball with a hump. Okay. We say if it's if, if you hang it, we bang it, you know, and so you can, you can see that curveball versus a slider.

Like now I throw a lot of sliders to a lot of hitters now and they can't get to it because they see it and then it moves away a lot faster. And actually, truthfully, a slider is a lot easier to, to really, to teach. A lot of people say curveball is curveball.

A lot of kids, you know, they want to start extending out here versus slider. I don't think fastball and pull through at the last second, so it'll look fastball and then move away from you at the last minute.

So to me that's easier. And, and you keep playing around with it until you throw to a spot.

That's what a lot of people don't understand when you're working on off speed pitches or whatever, throw to a spot. So if George right here, he's catching. So I say, okay, I'll start my slider here, but I wanted to end up right here.

And you just play around with it a little bit until, you know, you feel that every. And I always tell the kids, everybody is different.

You ain't getting to it like I thought or whatever, but you'll get the, the intent on how to release it and how to make it look like a fastball.

Cool. The other thing I remember from that era was things more like, I mean, Fernando Valenzuela. So he's throwing, he's throwing screwballs. Yeah.

So what, what's what, how does that differ from facing somebody like Oral Hershey?

Well, now it's, now it's going the other way with him being lefty. So you're, you're adjusted to seeing that sinker coming in. Now he throws that, that screwball is going away.

So now you have a pitch going in, going away. So. But in my case, I was able to make the adjustment because I knew that my approach is going to right center.

And I remember in Dodger Stadium the first year, Fernando, everybody, no one could hit him because I wasn't playing much that year. Nobody could hit him.

So.

So now the next year he start throwing more fastballs, but they're looking screwball. So now they're still. Now it's like, what, what else does this guy have?

So I didn't realize he had a slider until this is one of the few times that I, I fouled off like six or seven pitches during that at bat. And. But with my approach to right center, it helped. So he threw Me, a slider and. But my swing path was already adjusted to that.

And I ended up hitting a home run to left center. And I'm running around the bases like, yeah, I knew he's going to throw that. But I'm like, I had to. I was puzzled, like, how did I hit that?

But I didn't even like, say, I didn't even know that he had that, that pitch. And. But it's making an adjustment. So I had develop a swing that would be able to, to handle a slider or, or screwball or a fastball.

But a lot, you find a lot of guys, I laugh at them because they end up hitting themselves in the shin, break their knee, break their kneecap, or there's a couple of guys broke their leg because they hit. I said, you don't really love yourself, you keep hitting yourself. But I knowing that those guys hitting around the ball.

So with that slider that Valenzuela was throwing, no way they would have been able to hit it if they did. They're going to go foul or they're going to end up hitting themselves. They're rolling around on the ground like, get out, let's go.

Yeah, I remember a lot of foul balls during Fernando Valenzuela games.

I know that was almost like every time we would go and we would be seeing Bronson Arroyo pitch and oh my gosh, it was just a foul ball festival every time that kid took the mound.

No, the best one though is Tom Browning. And this is a true fact that parents is not, not something that Rick told me to tell you guys to do.

So Tom Browning said, if he goes up there and a guy falls off like five or six pitches, the next pitch he'll hit him. Because he said, the guy, they already said, seen all, all I have. So I'm just gonna go to the next guy. I said, that makes sense.

And at that moment I said, I wish that were a pitcher, that Vicky followed it off. Okay, you gotta earn this.

That's funny.

So you finished the season last year exhausted from all the travel and the tournaments, and you tossed your gear in a bag where it's been sitting all winter. Now you're ready for another year. But your favorite glove that fits just right is an error waiting to happen.

The leather is dry, the laces are brittle, and this year you're on a new team with new colors. And it sure would be cool if it matched well, wouldn't it be great if you had a glove guy who could help you out with that?

You do his name is Ethan, and he owns Glovehound baseball glove repair shop in Fairfield, Ohio. Just contact him@glovehound.com and upload pictures of your glove.

He'll give you a call back to talk it over, and then you can send it in for a repair. Relays, recondition, whatever you need. If you're in the area, you can even just stop by the shop. That way you don't have to bother with shipping.

And a lot of times, he can even fix it while you wait. Rawlings, Wilson, Mizuno, All Star, Nakona, he's seen them all. And he's helped players at all levels, from beginners to pros.

Last year, he worked on a glove that Jose Trevino used in the World Series. And he can help you, too. You can find Glovehound on Google, Facebook, Instagram, Instagram, YouTube and on the web@glovehound.com.

you're only going to get busier, so reach out today and give your glove the love it deserves at glovehound. All right, well, we're going to move on to the next segment. This is going to be our main segment. Right now, we're just calling it the main thing.

We're going to. We'll find a cooler name for it. Okay? But right now, this is our main question. So my question to you guys is, what does it mean to hit for power?

And should every or could every player learn to do it? So let's start with what does it mean to hit for power? George, why don't you start us off?

People confuse hitting for power with hitting home runs, right?

Yeah.

Hitting. Like we talked about earlier, Mike Schmidt, he hit for power. Not only hit home runs, but he hit doubles.

So being able to hit the ball in the gap, that's. That's hitting for power.

Yeah.

And I just feel that every. Unless it's a guy that I want to hit. Billy Hamilton hit the ball on the ground and run.

But other guys, like Mookie Betts, you know, here's a guy hit for power because he has a lot of speed, and he can get doubles and triples. So his nest is being able to drive the ball. That's the word I would use, being able to drive the ball. And that's when you're hitting for power.

And everybody can do that, except some guys are selected to make sure you hit the ball on the ground. And hitting home runs. I look at hitting home runs a byproduct of executing the right techniques. A lot of guys try to hit home run. They lift the ball.

But I Would look at their home run total and look at the RBI total. If it's a ratio of more than one to three, then they're not hitting home runs with men in scoring position.

Right.

So of course, if you're say like 1 to 1 to 1 to 2, that that's not good. So a guy hit 20 home runs, 40 RBIs. So that's what I was proud about that year. When I hit 52 home runs, I was 7 off as far as that ratio.

So I had 52 home runs, 149 RBIS or 7 off. I blame Griffith for not scoring more, but so. But I always look at that ratio.

Cool. Rick, what would you say, what does it mean to hit for power, especially when you're working with young players?

And I, I agree with what George just said. And with a young player, you got to look at their size and stuff, because a lot of parents want kids to drive the ball.

I said, you can only do what his body can tell.

Yeah, that's true.

Was able to do bad. So you can't manufacture stuff that he can't do. But really just work on hitting line drives. Just keep it simple.

Learning how to use the whole field and go gap to gap in and just keep it simple as that. Especially for kids 9, 10, 11.

And by the time they 12, they start getting a little bit more stronger, a little bit more coordination, be able to use their hands a little bit. Also for me, in our program, use a lot of wood bags. Would go back to something that's simple and basic. Develop the hands, wrists, and everything.

And then when they go back to their. Their aluminum bat or composite bat, it feels like they're cheating now because it's so light now.

They didn't learn how to drive the ball or hit the ball harder. You know, I always say you can't control where the ball can. Where the ball goes, but you can control your approach right to hitting.

Right?

Yes, that's true.

But back when they had the shift, they would ask me, you know, what would you do differently if they had to shift? I said, well, it's not legal to have a player in the stands. So it didn't really affect me.

Ethan, what comes to your mind when you think about hitting for power?

Well, I agree with what you guys were saying about it. It gets confused with home runs, I think, too often, because that's where the money is, and everybody wants to be that kind of guy.

Um, but when you're talking about different ages and, and sizes, what age do you start trying to Decide, you know, maybe, maybe power is not my thing. Let me focus on, on trying to hit the ball on the ground more.

Or do you want to, do you want to stick to just hitting line drives for as long as possible?

Once again, we look at, I look at the, the skill. If they're fast, I have good running speed.

Sure.

So I'm, I'm focusing on bonding and hitting the ball on the ground and then we build up later. But it's a, I call this building, building a swing. What's the process in doing that?

There's a downfall sometime for me because parents come thinking that, well, you're going to have my kids hit home runs. Said, no, that's not the objective. Hit for power. They're like, what, what do you mean, hit for power?

I want them to hit home run because they're thinking that this is their meal ticket. I said, no, I just want to develop this kid. But when I see what that's.

When I, When I was coaching, I would say I look at the running speed and they have good running speed. I want you to be able to get on base. And that, that's, that's a weapon, being able to get on base.

When we were playing, you know, you have a, you know, like a Lou Brock, you have a Joe Morgan, a Ken Griffey senior. You get on base. That's, that's like you're, you're at second base. You're going to still. Even if you don't steal a bass. But I use this.

People don't understand when I say this, is that speed sets up power. Like, what do you mean speed? Sets of power. But when a Griffey or Geronimo or Joe Morgan get on base, what is the catcher thinking?

The catcher want to call fastballs because they're embarrassed if the guy is still second base or still a base. So now you have to have a, a Foster, I mean, a fastball hitter behind a base dealer.

And I remember if you, if you do have a breaking ball hitter behind a base stealer, it's not going to work. But you have a fastball hitter. Oh, that's dangerous.

Yes.

And so you're going to get more fastballs to hit. So they give Foster or Perez or, or Johnny Bench more fastballs to hit. So when Martin get on base, even if he doesn't, doesn't steal this, the.

Thought of it, that's, that's the interesting thing about guys like Bench too, is that he had a ton of doubles.

Yeah.

And see, this is what I'm I'm in my mind, I'm seeing power hitting as someone who can, who can move multiple runners.

Right.

So you want that, you want your power hitter up. In my limited understanding, you want your power hitter up when you've got multiple guys on base.

So you, that's why you want him in that four hole, in that six hole, and that, you know, you want to have a chance to have two, three guys in front of him so that if he grabs a double, you got two, three runs coming in.

That's why I disagree with the lineups today. They bring in. You say you have an Aaron Judge or a Soto batting second.

No, you want them to bat third or so because they say that they want them to have more at bats. No, you want to have more bats with men. And absolutely not necessarily in scoring position.

I look at, I look at myself being in scoring position from home plate. But if a guy's at first base, to me, he's in scoring position. And even if you don't drive that guy in, you hit the ball in the gap.

Now you're second and third, second and third in that situation. But I know in Bench's case that they're going to be playing deeper so that now there's more room. You can't go in there and bunch them.

But like I say, I disagree with how they put the lineups up. I think, oh yeah, I was thinking about Philadelphia and the Phillies and I would put Turner leading off. And is it Schwerber having batting second?

Because now Turner's going to get more fastballs to hit.

Yes.

And then Sherber, he's still going to hit his hit for power. He'll get hit for power, hit home runs. But if he gets on base, he's just, he's going to be there. He's not going to.

Right.

And then if he get. Someone gets ahead, he's going to get the second base. But that's going to be a more potent lineup if they do that.

But of course, I'm not the manager, but those are things that I would do to tweak. And I think it was same with the Mets. You know, they, they have. I wouldn't put Soto third and bring somebody else batting second.

Bring some more speed in there. But you know, but I look at, look at toying at this lineup, what would I do differently?

And same with, with the, with the reds like McLean, should I have Dela Cruz or McLean? So I maybe have McLean, because now Cruz is going to get more fastballs ahead. But it's like, people don't understand that.

And I wanted to call before they did sign Alonzo resigning. Cohen, I said, you Soda is going to lead the world and walks if he doesn't have Alonzo behind him.

Right.

But once again, they don't understand protection up there.

Yeah. That's an interesting, interesting thought. When you think about, you know, putting your lineup together and who.

Right.

Who should follow.

Right.

Because a lot of times I think we train young players and, Rick, you can speak to this. I think coaches mean well and they train hitters to go up there and think about, I need the best hit. I need the. I need the best thing I can.

I can create while I'm here. And so the goal becomes hit. Well, rather than move the runner and bring in the run. And the goal of the hitter should be to make runs happen.

Right, Exactly. It should be more of a team concept versus I. I concept.

Right. I like that. I like that.

Yes. And. And even when I'm doing lessons, I like. Dude, we always do a lot of situationals.

Yeah.

You play that over and over again. So kids understand the game, the strategy. Be at bat. And we don't do that enough. Coaches don't do that enough. Enough.

I got a man on second and third dog less than one hour. I don't care if you hit a. A flare in the right, a hard ground ball to second base. Guess what? That's an RBI man.

That's a line driver.

Celebrated.

Yeah.

You know, boo, you did your job. You did your job. And I think that's where we gotta start training kids. Bunny drag, bun push, bun sack, all these things that's gonna make it.

I call it a fast break offense in our baseball.

There you go.

Yeah.

Yeah. We're going to have an entire.

Yes.

Episode on bunting at some point, because I know that's close to all of your hearts. We're going to. We're going to talk about bunting.

Well, and at that, at the younger level, just getting the ball in play can be so effective. Just, you know, even if it's not the highest quality of contact, you're not dealing with gold glove fielders out there.

And you can be very effective just by getting the ball in play.

Yes. And to elaborate on what you just said, this is where sometimes we got to eliminate batting averages and game changers stuff all the time.

Well, and you think, you know, you're going to get up there and hit, and you got to figure you're in a tournament and that team you're playing against, they haven't Practiced any more than you haven't practiced. So, you know, they're, they're just as likely to make an error when you put the ball in place as anybody else.

But I, but to me, though, I find that people, once again, they may not understand. Bunny helped you become a better hitter.

You got to be able to see the ball when you, when you're Bunny, see the ball off the bat, let the ball hit the bat. And a lot of times you, when you're swinging the bat, you're not really seeing the ball right.

And you have to have a lot of courage up there, just be able to stay there. I'm standing there against an old Ryan and please, please throw it over the plate.

But I didn't know until I, I attempted to bunt that he didn't like someone bunting on him. I didn't know why the next ball was coming at my head. But they didn't tell me about it until later on. I said, well, thanks for telling me now.

But being able to, to see the ball, see the ball hit the bat. And the other day I was teaching someone to bump. But you. I said, you got to have your eyes behind the bat.

There you go.

But then you able to see the ball better. And now they start to make a better transition and also make it a better choice. But the first thing I would say to.

I said, who's the team player here? And the raise your hand.

I said, if we're going to work on bunning, if you're not a team player, then that means if you don't want to bunt, that means that you're not a team player. Right? We don't want to bun. We don't want to bun. Then, you know, they, in my camps or clinics teach them how to bunt. Yes.

And then now they see, I know that they see the ball.

Yes.

You have to be able to see the ball to, to bunt well.

And the thing they need to remember is if you bunt and you get on base, it's a hit.

Oh, yes.

Can you imagine? I. I can't imagine off the top of my head. I'd like to see the stat on it someday. How many of Pete Rose's hits were buns?

Because I'll bet you there was a. There was a good number of them.

But not, not only the fact that if he bought is the fact that he showed it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So now that changes the defense.

Yes.

And you, you find the, the, the corners will move in.

Yeah.

And so now that makes a big difference but when I went up there and I attempted to bunt, the guy at Mike Smith at third base said, I go ahead and bun. He's still out there in left field. I think I said, come on in, Mike. Come on in.

And I remember asking you about that because I wasn't sure why. And that was when we. We.

You brought up a really interesting point in that when you're watching baseball on tv, you're kind of at a disadvantage because you can't see what all the players are doing. All you see is from the pitcher's perspective. And so you were able to explain to me that what that did to the infield.

And Israel, you reminded them that, oh. Oh, he made bunt.

Yes.

And then imagine. Oh, yeah, move in, move it. Even if one or two steps, it makes a big differ.

Well, yeah, it opens up that gap and makes it easier to put one over their head and drop it and get on base.

Yeah. I always. Well, when I was up, they would say, take the. All the married men off the infield, because I'm gonna be. I would like to destroy you.

I would hurt somebody up there. But. But another thing that I. When I'm teaching hitting is that we want to talk about hitting. Hitting zone compared to strike zone.

Yes.

So I want them to increase their strike zone because their balls in. That's in the hitting zone that you're able to drive. Do not leave it to the umpire to judge if it's a ball or strike.

There are times that I see guys get called out on balls, pitchers that are not in the strike zone, but it's in your hitting zone. It takes a while for this kid because the coaches said, swing at strike, swing at strikes. Then you ask a kid, what's the strike zone?

I don't really know. And so now they're passive up there. I said, be aggressive. What is your. Can you hit that?

Yeah, that's what. When Ethan first started, one of the first things I tried to teach him coaching teams, was, can I put a bat on that?

Right.

If you can ask yourself that when you're looking at this pitch, not, is that a strike or is that a ball? Can I put a bat on that?

You only have one.

Do it.

Wear one uniform. When you're at the. At the plate.

That's right.

Not the, you're not the umpire. Just focus on swinging the bat. And I like, come on. Is that, can you hit that? Can you hit that? Yeah, but it's not a strike.

I know, but this is in your hitting zone. It's like it's a recording. Recording. Telling them that.

And I, I loved the high pitch. I could not lay off the high pitch. And the one home run I hit in high school. High school was high and inside and I had no business swinging at it.

And I, I did. And boy, I sent that right up.

Around the chin, baby. I love that.

But I find that if you're not able to lay off and learn how to hit it.

Yeah, that's why we do a lot of hot teeth.

Yeah, yeah. This guy, Stan Bonson, he was a rookie of the year with the Yankees. Now he's with, at the time, Montreal.

And he had that curveball and I changed my stance to stand taller. Cause I didn't want. I was swinging the bat well and nobody else was really sweeing the bat well on the team. So he kept throwing that curveball.

So it was a three zero count and man on man on first and second and he threw me a curveball. It was a ball practically over my head, but I hit a line drive over the left field wall. I mean, right into the foul pole, foul screen.

And after the game, you know, I wanted to go over and console him by saying that, you know, I worked on that. Cause he was gesturing with his hand like, how could he hit that? How could he hit that? I want to let him know I practice on that.

So like I say, if you're not able to lay off it, learn how to hit it.

Rick, how, how. What are some things that you would recommend that coaches can do to teach their kids to be, to be offensive hitters?

In other words, to teach them to say, can I put a bat on that? How can I recognize my hitting zone over just trying to guess the strike zone.

A lot of it is just patience. You gotta have patience and, and, and it. A lot of failure at hitting, you know, so you just gotta have patience.

With kids, man, I've used even with my own son. We use everything from Wiffle balls, man, to golf ball size balls to regular baseballs.

And you just, just kind of change a lot of the different things. Keep it fun. I think that's one of the main thing is keep it fun. They're gonna swing and miss and stuff like that.

But it's repetition, really, just repetition. Throwing balls and Everything. And then. And then from there, then you can move to more situational base hitting for kids.

And then, you know, but I think a lot of it, as far as I think you're talking about team based, I think you gotta have. It's going to come down to what's your philosophy? And do you have the right assistant coaches that can carry out your.

Your message and your philosophy.

Right.

Because you're only as good as the guys around you.

Right.

That's a good point.

And the other thing to keep in mind is you can, as a hitter, you can control what you swing at. You cannot control what the Empire is going to call a strike.

And I think that's one of the things that I think a lot of kids now in this era since. And I'm saying this because a lot of kids don't go outside enough to play baseball on their own.

Well, and when you're, when you're playing casually with your buddies, there isn't an umpire, there isn't. Right. And so you're not, you're not looking to take a walk if it's just you and your buddy, because there's. You're playing ghosts.

The whole thing is about, yeah, so.

It'S like that, you know, that's not fun. So I'm gonna try to hit the, you know, whatever it is, the bottle cap, the ball, the rock, the whatever. And you're not.

So you're not concerned about the strikes, you're not concerned about walks, and you're more concerned about just hitting whatever object is coming at you.

And I think that, that transitioning from there to, to a practice element, man, I think that'll get more kids amped up and be more confident at the plate.

Step up to the plate, man, because nothing is more.

Nothing hits your confidence like guessing a strike or guessing a ball and having the umpire called a strike because you thought you did good, you thought you guessed right and it was out of your control. And that, that hits your confidence, especially for a young player, because you're thinking, you know the rules.

And then somebody, you know, maybe he does get it a little bit wrong, or maybe you saw it wrong and you can completely eliminate that by hitting pitches even if they're not strikes.

Yes, sir.

It's okay. It's a hit. You don't have to swing it strikes. But something that's hittable.

Well, that's, that's the. Goes back to what you've said before, George, is the difference between hitting and batting.

Like, I'm up here, I'm up here trying to make something happen. I'm not up here trying not to make a mistake.

Right, right. But some coaches.

But that's why I started coaching again at that particular time, because I wanted to show the kids, or at least also the other parents that this is the way to play the game. And. But you have coaches swinging, strike, swing and strike.

And then even in batting practice, if the kid strikes out, he's got to do push ups in order to get punished for that. And so now when a parent comes to me and said, well, my kid, he only been up 100 at bats. He only struck out three times.

Oh, right away, I know that kid's very passive, defensive up there, but if they say, well, my kid been up 100 times and struck out like 15 times as well, he's being aggressive. So now making sure that he's disciplined up there. But you, it's, it's a, it's a challenge teaching being aggressive. Yes.

When they come from a standpoint of a, you know, go up there and, and make sure you put the ball in play. Okay. There's a, there's a three, one count. They may hit the ball back to the pitcher. Oh, way to go, Johnny. No, swing the bat.

Yes. Yes. I like what George was, what he was saying too is that I think there is a lot of pressure on, on kids now to be. There's. I always say this.

It's easy to teach a kid that's aggressive versus a kid that's passive.

Yeah.

You know, just trying to get him to think about the failure dog. Just swing them back.

Well, that's, you know, the three of us remember car, cars when they didn't have power steering and you can only steer them if they're in motion. You know, you're not gonna, you're not gonna steer them standing still. So it's always easier to steer that kid if he's already aggressive.

Right? Yeah. Right.

Yesterday I just had a, I got a text from a mom and she was like, yeah, the dad sent me a video. He's 16. You used to play with one of my MD nine teams and 16. You and say, man, he's topping the ball. Like. Yeah, yeah.

So I told her, text her a couple of things, I think it was. But I said, but the video is kind of blurry, so I can't really see what he's doing wrong, truthfully.

So he comes in, he comes in for fielding and hitting yesterday and everything. So, you know, I said, okay, we'll start off with some one hand, top hand. Drills. So we worked on that. Everything threw him. Something change us.

We threw that like, man, everything looks good, man. And so he hits. We. I take him through situational throwing change ups, curve fastballs. I said, man, there ain't nothing wrong with you, man.

I called his mom up. I'm like, man, there ain't nothing wrong with me.

You have the wrong kids.

Yeah.

It's like, man, this ain't that. He's okay. I don't see no ground balls in line tries, dog.

I like, oh, so did I told him we don't have to spend a whole heck of a lot of time on this, dog. I don't want to put you in a slump. And those are things I think sometimes as parents, we get what they perceive.

Right.

They. It's not what I see.

Right.

You know what I'm saying?

Well, and they're trying to tell you what you should be doing working with the kid. So it's more so sit back and observe. But the two things that I really. I tried to narrow down to make it simple. For every result of there's the call.

For every result, there's a cause. What caused that? Cannot a kid hit a ground ball to the left side. What caused that?

Well, he's hitting the outside part of the ball, but the parents only knowing that. Okay, he's hooking the ball. But why? What causing that? Yeah, a kid is popping up. Okay, what is causing that? He's getting under the ball.

So it Keep it simple.

Yes.

And say hitting the ball too. Well, I had my godson that played a guy way back, Preston Wilson played for the the Mets and going with the Preston Wilson with the Marlins.

And this verse is bubble. But I wanted to let him know that. Okay. He said. I said, how'd you do today? Well, I went 2 for 3.

Then I want to know, okay, what was the count when you got that base hit? He said, well, it was a 31 count. I got a base hit the right field and he's a power hitter or get hit for power. And I said, okay, who won that battle?

He said, well, I did. I said, no, the pitcher won the battle because he kept in the ballpark, the count was in your favor.

3 and 1 and you settle for a base hit to right field. So if you had two strikes and you hit the ball, that's good hitting.

Yes.

But I said, you got the hit. Yeah. I'll give you the credit for getting the hit, but for me, I'm three and one looking middle in to drive that ball.

Not necessarily out of the park. So now you're at first base. You got a single compared to being at second base with a double. So it's just teaching the kids. And counts in your favor.

Look, middle and counts. You have two strikes, you only look at middle away. So you're able to protect the plate. That's how you become a hitter.

And a lot of guys, you know, they get a three one count and they throw a curveball outside and they, they hit a weak ground ball to the right side. I said, why'd you swing at that pitch? Well, it was a strike. I said, three and one. Make sure you look middle wind. So.

But you're getting kids to understand that.

Always say three 1. How many strikes does it take for.

You to get out?

Use them all, dog.

Right, right.

Use them all but three one. But it's in your count, man. Sit on what, what you looking for? Hunt your pitch, right?

But you don't. The kids. If you don't know, you're not able to teach it.

Right.

And I give credit to the parents or the coaches that are out there trying to help, but sometimes they. They get too instructive. They haven't done it before.

Well, and along the lines of keeping it simple, Rick, you know, I was a member of one of those lessons where I came in and nothing was wrong. I was in high school and I was struggling with pitching, man, I remember that I was, I was a chronic overthinker. I just, I love to think and.

Analyze paralysis by analysis.

And I, you know, I'm. I'm in there and I'm thinking about each one of my emotions and I'm like, I called Rick. I said, rick, something's off.

I said, I don't, I don't know what it is. And dad said, he said, call Rick. He said, he'll. He'll help you out. So I call Rick and we get in there and we're just catching.

We're keeping it loose, moving the feet, whatever. I start throwing, he's like, you're fine. He said, he's like, just throw the ball. You say you're thinking way too much. Just do what you know.

Be natural.

I was, I was so thankful he.

Came back and I said, how'd it go?

He said, I was like, oh, man, ain't nothing wrong.

But that was great input, cuz. He trusted what you had to say.

Yeah.

Yeah. He came back and. And I said, how'd it go? And he said, I was thinking too much. I said, you?

No way.

Ethan is more than my Podcast partner. He's my son and like every baseball parent, my first priority was his development as a player.

Every year, we'd start out with a new coach and a new team, making new promises, only to end up playing the same old tournaments with little to no practice in between. You know what I'm talking about. That's why I'm so thankful that we found MDNI Academy.

I first met Coach Rick over a decade ago when Ethan was just a kid. And I'll never forget the relief I felt watching his first lesson.

I knew right then that no matter what team he played for, my son would have amazing, consistent instruction from someone who cared. Rick has trained baseball and softball players at the select, travel, and even college levels.

So I knew that Ethan could continue his excellence through training approach. For his whole baseball career, he learned hitting, pitching, catching, fielding, and more all in one place.

Most of all, he learned to love the greatest game in the world and how to play it with character and integrity.

MDNI is a first class facility with plenty of tunnels for hitting and pitching instruction that open up into large areas for teaching fielding, baserunning, speed and agility. They even have a weight room for strength training.

So if you're wearing yourself out running all over town to multiple teachers or worse, you're counting on that new select coach to actually develop your child. You need to check out MDNI Academy today.

Go to mdaiacademy.com and contact Coach Rick to learn how you can get all the baseball instruction you need from someone who cares about your favorite player as much as you do at MDNI Academy. All right, so let's move on to. Let's move on to another segment that we're calling Then and Now.

So we want to talk about teaching hitting and learning hitting. So we'll start with you, Rick. How, how did you learn to hit then? And do you teach it differently now?

Oh, yes, yes, a lot. Yeah, I learned how to hit from my dad, of course, because he played baseball. Then he transitioned into softball at those times.

And then the neighborhood that I grew up in, we had a lot of good baseball players, man, Athletes, man, that could hit, man, and we hit all the time. And then we hit with older guys. So the older guys kind of, kind of taught you how to hit, man. They'll work with you, man.

You know, you playing street baseball bad. You know, everybody choosing you, boy, if you get chose last, you felt like you wasn't that good.

But if you, you got chose somewhere near the middle and you with one of those, the bigger guys, man, that kind of took you up under the ring sort of speak. So we used to go and watch my friends, their older brothers play. They were very good. Like Daryl Boston.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

We just go watch them play, man.

And this guy at Northside KFC Ohio, welding all the teams in our neighborhood, we go watch those guys play, toss with them, hit with them, just ask some questions. Showed you how to catch everything. So the way we hit then we also mimic a lot of the people we saw on tv. Right. Again, like George, Joe Morgan.

Right.

You know, everybody had the crouch. Like Pete Rose. I used to like my. My buddy, only because he had this big Afro. Oscar Gamble. Yeah, for Cleveland, you know. So I was a big.

Because the A's and the Reds back then were. Were like World Series guys. So you had those two teams to me at that time coming up, you had all those athletes, man, you know, on both sides of the.

You know, so mimic. Wanted to mimic all those guys there. So now teaching baseball a little bit more differently, a more of. Let me see here.

A little bit more patient and everything. And that's the. Really different now is being patient and showing kids how to be a complete hitter. And I think today we're not.

We got to go back to basic stuff with kids. Yeah. And now leave it as that. I don't want to take up any more time.

George, how about you? How did you learn to hit in. In Alabama back in the day? And then do you teach it differently today than what you learned back in Alabama?

We, we didn't have the monies to go out and buy a bat, so we just find a stick that looked like a bat and we had duct tape even then, you know, get a rock and. And make a ball. So we had two bases, home plate and then second base. So you get it. You get to one base without getting tagged, you're fine.

But it's just repetition doing it over and over again. But the good thing, when Rick was talking about you, you mimic other players, but these guys were quality players, so you couldn't go wrong.

You mimic Willie Mays. Well, for me, going within the Giant organization, you got a Mays, you got a McCovey, you got. You got Bobby Bonds, you got Jim Ray Hart.

All these guys are power hitters, and I wanted to be as like them, so to speak. And so whatever I saw, if I wanted to be like the Jim Ray Hart, it couldn't go wrong. Or Willie Mays, it couldn't go wrong.

So I would talk to those guys about hitting and didn't observe what. What they're doing. And I know it doesn't play, come into play today, but my scout, he would.

Every day after school, he would take me to the park and work on the game of baseball. Bunting, soft toss. But one day there was. I got.

My hands started to bleed a lot, get a little sore, and underneath the backstop there was an opening, and behind the backstop there was a creek. So I tried to keep hitting the ball underneath so we could lose the baseballs because my hands were getting soaked Tinder. But he.

Every day I make sure that I was on time, ready to go. But he worked with me on those mechanics. My hands, seeing them all hand and eye coordination. And so that plays a lot.

But as Rick said earlier, repetition, doing over and over and over again. And then now say, asking them, what did they. Why are we doing this? And why. Like I said, back to the cause and effect. And.

But today's game, I look at the. Oh, you're switch hitting. I see Adela Cruz. I said, why? I'm saying to myself, why is he a switch hitter and he's not using the opposite field?

And I wanted to introduce. When he's batting left hand, introduce him to left field. When he's batting right hand, introduced to right field.

Yes.

So that's the purpose, the advantage of being a switch hitter. A lot of these guys, they don't. They're trying to hit the ball out of Yellowstone park. And. But I break hitting down into three categories.

The physical part, okay, what things you need to work on to get strong, like, say your hands, your fingers, your forearms, your legs, and then the mechanics of it. Okay. There's a sequence you need to work on. And once you go out of that sequence, that's when you're not going to be consistent. And.

But the one that I call myself more of a hitting psychologist, the one that really stand out is the mental part. It's not. What do you. I said, what are you thinking about when you're in the batter's box? And they would say, either say nothing or say.

I said, well, you've gone wrong already. You don't. When you get in the badge box, you don't think, you know, just react.

Yes.

React to where? On deck. Yeah, Going from there. But you, you gotta build their confidence and. And find out what they can do well. And then, you know, keep expanding.

And once again, Rick said, being patient and get them to laugh at themselves. Yeah, Having fun.

Yeah, having fun's big.

Because when they do something, I would laugh and they look at me like, why are you laughing? It was funny. Or just then when he hit the ball. Well, I caught with sound effects. Bam. Wow, that's great. They look at what's going on.

I said that was exciting. Did you see that? Yeah, that reminds me of me.

Ethan, why don't you, why don't you speak a little bit? You had an interesting situation because we, we've got all levels of play here at the table. Like, you know, we've got George who played in the bigs.

We got Rick who played all the way up through semi pro and older in his. Into his adulthood. You've got Ethan, you played up through high school.

And I, you know, I just played little League till I was like a freshman in school. And then I, I was a far better trumpet player than I was a catcher, so I had a better shot at college that way.

But so when Ethan came up and started learning to hit, you know, I'm teaching him what I know. Right. And I come from.

See the ball, hit the ball, get the elbow up in your ear and all this kind of other stuff that, that, you know, was, Was sort of common approach, but yet not as. Not a very educated approach.

It wasn't, it wasn't overly technical. It was. So I remember elbow up and the goal was to get the fat part of the bat on the ball.

And I, which isn't wrong per se, but it wasn't technical and mechanical. And so coming to Rick was, Was kind of revolutionary for me because a. It loosened me up.

I was stiff as a board and I was swinging with my arms and, and he taught me how to, how to loosen up and get some rhythm to my swing and the kind of. He dropped my elbow.

Yeah.

First of all. And kind of taught the rotational aspect of it and how to use the whole body, how to use my legs.

I was, I was a bigger kid, but I wasn't using my legs. I was swinging all upper body. And you had power and I had, and once I figured it out, it made a big difference.

Yes, but swinging, it's, it's more than, it's more than meets the eye. It looks like you're swinging with your arms, but it's a whole body movement.

And it is.

If you're not, if you haven't learned it from somebody else like you did, I mean, you probably didn't have a lot of formal hitting instruction.

Oh, I had zero formal hitting the instruction.

So that's where seeking out Rick's guidance was, was critical in my, in my baseball journey. For sure.

Well, I can. Oh, go ahead.

That's great for me to build on. Always say the build on hidden philosophy. For me, I'm a guy that I talk to a lot of people. What works, what doesn't work for you?

What works and what doesn't work for this kid might not work for you.

100.

Yeah.

And to see that. And I think today people be trying to morphy more people into something that they're not.

Try to fit the player to a mold rather than mold the player.

Yes, exactly.

So some kids got. They got a leg kick and everything, and they say, well, my coach taught me that.

Yeah, okay.

They've been having leg kicks for years, man. You know, not say that, like, really, like, man, go back and see Ruben Sierra.

Yes.

You know, someone like that bad or it's timing.

Having that time.

Yes. Having time.

Daryl Strawberry for.

Oh, yeah, the match.

You know, he had. He kicked that. But the thing is being able to put it back down the same place and. And it's choreography. I said, yes, choreography.

I like that.

Thank you. Yes. Thank you very much. But speaking of that, though, when you said Rick taught your rhythm, it's like, what did you listen to? James Brown or El.

He brought that up. He brought that up.

I asked people sometimes, like, man, what kind of music you listen to, man?

I said, it, start with your feet. We got to get your feet loose. Get, you know, got to move around.

Dance here again, like I said, just learning and just asking people. Even today, I'll ask my. Call up a high school coach or whatever.

Just ask them, like, hey, what's going on on your level, man, what you guys are doing or whatever and stuff like that, might share something or they'll share something with me or whatever. But even just speaking us here, talking to George and getting his feedback on the things that he knows, and it's enlightened me huge, man.

Well, one of the things I can say as.

As a parent is, you know, Ethan played for a lot of different coaches on a lot of different teams, and lots of parents I know go through the same thing where, you know, you go from one team and then it falls apart. You go to another team and it falls apart. It's just too common in travel, baseball. So our. Our coaches for the teams were constantly changing.

But when I took Ethan to Rick and I knew, I saw him work with. With him for 10 minutes, and I said, this is a guy that I want to instruct my son through whatever else we play.

I want him to instruct my son for the rest of his career. And throughout all that, we went through this team, that team, this fell apart.

That's why we could always go back and, And Rick was always there to, to kind of help him. And he knew him, he understood him because, you know, you get in a new team, okay, that coach doesn't know him.

He.

He doesn't.

It takes him a long time through the series to the season to even get to know his personality and what he's like and whether he overthinks things or whether he reacts, whether he's aggressive, whether he's not. Rick knew all that already. So there was a huge value as a parent in having someone as a private teacher that could be in his life for years.

And Rick, I will forever be grateful for the time that you spent working with Ethan because it gave me peace of mind as a father, knowing that, first of all, you had expertise I didn't have and you were able to help him in ways I could not help him. And at the same time, time you were there, no matter what else we faced, you were there to kind of help him get through it. And that was.

That was huge for us.

Well, and how many times did I come back to you and say, well, this coach taught me this, and you go, okay, that's one way to do it. Let's do it this way instead.

Right, but that's. I have to compliment you, Greg, as a parent and telling parents, go out and scout the coach.

You know, how does that coach react or interact with that kid? I don't want my kid to be yelled at. You know, how does he talk? Is he. Is he do it my way or you take the highway. But there's.

Look, there are parents out there that can relate to a Bobby Knight or a John Wooden. Which coach would you want? And same same with my daughter when I was getting her to become a better tennis player. I observe. How is that coach?

How is the forehand? How's it the backhand? How's the volley, how's the serve?

So I pick certain ingredients out what that person can teach so that it can relate to my daughter, because I want her to. It's a development.

Yes.

And as. Not only as a baseball player, but as a person. So as a person, because you're not going.

Well, it sounds like it's being negative, but not everyone's going to make it as a, As a baseball player or as an athlete. But the confidence that they built, you never know what that kid can do. So being able to. Okay, Ethan, you're Okay. Oh, yeah. The kid strikes out.

I said, okay, learn from it or the good. The good example. I said, how would you do today? I had a bad day. I said, the only reason you have a.

Only reason you would have a bad day if you don't make adjustments.

Right, Right.

And what did you. What do you need to do to make adjustments? If you just forget about whatever happened there, you. You didn't learn from it. It is a bad day.

But what did you learn from that? And with the kid that's on the team, I say, finding something that's going to help them to be successful.

And I was talking to someone the other day about. About hitting. I said, well, I only had, say, a certain number of grand slams when I played with the Mets, but they really stood out.

And the one that stood out, I said, I had struck out three times in a row. I got against the guy. The Doors, Bob Welsh and Tom Lasorda did me a favor. He took him out.

My fourth time at bat, the bases were loaded, so he wanted to bring in need and fear. Who? Need, fear. It was a top relief pitcher in the game. But every time they would come to New York, he would say, I know how to get you out.

Telling me, I said, one of these days, gonna be a dramatic hit. He said, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's fine. So he comes in. Usually they have the golf cart to bring the pitcher in or relief pitcher in.

He ran in because it's George Foss. He knows how to get me out. And so instead of getting eight warmups, he only wanted six warmups, so that's fine.

Then he threw me a pitch low and in, and I took a check swing. Instead of him waiting for the catcher to throw it back to him on the mound, he ran halfway to get the ball. So now he threw me a pitch low and away.

And to this day, I think that ball's still going. So I hit a grand slam. I said, wow, that is great. I had a grand slam.

And I couldn't wait for the next day so that I can get the newspapers and say, george falls, hit a grand slam, help the Mets win. But it was like George Foster causes a fight. Like, wow, that's a. That's a downer.

Because the next guy, Ray Knight, he hit him in the ribs in the fight tonight. I said, I can't. I can't wait for losing here.

That wasn't the only time that Ray Knight ended up in a fight with you. We'll talk about that game eventually.

Nobody knew Ray Knight was a Gold Glover, yes. He knew what he could do. It was back to we as a, as a hitter. You know what you can do.

Don't go out there your line drive hitter, don't try to lift the ball. But Ray Knight, he had that confidence. Confident, exuded. Now once you know that he's a golden Glover, it's like, okay, he's on my team. Come on.

Sometimes we have a conflict of, of goal in that parents 10 I know I can speak for myself and for a few other parents that I've known over the years. What we want is to see our children develop as a player. And when, when what the coach wants is simply to win games.

Right?

Yeah, that, that brings that conflict, that makes it tough.

And that's why having that personal instruction helped us to navigate that because I knew that even if all the coach cares about is winning, we can go to a lesson on Tuesday. And he's still developing.

So. So at the major league level, George, obviously each team has their own hitting coach.

So did you struggle switching teams and having to learn a new philosophy with that hitting coach or did you have a guy, you know, kind of a non. Partial party, you could step away from the team aspect and go back to him or did. Were you stuck with the guy on the team?

All that, all that jazz when I of course with the Reds had Ted Kozewski. So you knowing that voice and, and he know back to Rick knew you. He know he knew me, so now I go to the Mets.

And now you feel that if you bring your own guy, say, are you creating a conflict?

Right.

And so now you have a different philosophy and now you're, you hear the guy, but it's, it becomes noise after a while because what he's saying you don't really want to hear and you, you want to respect the fact. Okay, but then now I look, I don't give him credit. They're not a hitting coach. They're batting because they're not really sure. They have theories.

And so after a while I, I wanted to try to find myself again. It. And it's a challenge. So when you go from one team to the other, it's a big adjustment. And like Aaron Judge, he has his own guy.

If you're doing well, why not, why not have your own guy? There's a. I know back with Keith Hernandez, he had his dad, so it's okay to be able to have your own because you're successful in doing it.

Right.

Sharper too.

They respect the fact that Aaron Judge had need to go to this certain guy all the time, that's fine to help him become better and there shouldn't be any conflict.

I know Aaron judges his, his hitting teacher. I think he goes by Teacher man hitting or something like that.

Yeah, man.

If you look at his comments, every, every dad is an expert and they are.

Yeah.

And he has a very unique style, but you can't deny that it's effective because Judge is doing what he's doing. And back to what you were saying, Rick, about it. It fits that specific player.

Yeah.

I don't know that that would work for every player, but it works for Aaron Judge.

Right? This Aaron Judge, I mean, yeah, he's, he owns the world as far as being a power hitter, but the fact is, how many others are being hurt? Help.

Because I remember George Brett, Charlie Lau, you know, Charlie Lau's known to help George. He would say loud, said George Brett was hit. Anyway, a lot of other guys tried that. It didn't work.

Yeah.

So I back to if it fits. If you go into, I mean, it sounds simple, you go and buy a new pair of shoes. You don't go look at the shell. I want that pair.

But you're going to try it on, make sure it fits. And I got to make sure that what I'm saying to this kid fits and going from there.

But everybody figured that, okay, this is, this is how it's going to be right here. This is how this fits Ethan. So it should fit everybody else. No, that's, that's not it.

Well, and the reason I came to you, Rick, was because one of my buddies, Caden Morris, came to you and that's how we got introduced. At that time, Caden and I were very, very different shapes. Various different shapes.

And it were.

It's funny because by the time we were in high school, we were roughly the same height.

Yeah.

And we weren't that far off in weight.

No.

And so, you know, we, and we wear the same size clothes by the time we get to high school. Right. But when in middle school, we were very, very different.

He was a string bean and you were a jelly roll.

100%. So. So, you know, you can't teach us the same way. We're, we're not the same people. And I always felt you did a good job of that.

Appreciate it. As a coach, we, and this is why my philosophy of providing excellence in training is that we developed our players.

Players didn't have to go elsewhere. We developed their hitting, developed their pitching, developed their fielding catching. And I think we had just a collective of guys. And that's why.

That's why my son played for the Same guy from 11U to 18U.

It limits the noise.

Yeah. Thank you. Oh, and. And so, so we. We kept it simple, man. Our kids played in high school and went to college. Some got drafted.

When you develop the mind, everything else can roll with that, man.

Well, and of all of the instruction that I took, your instruction involved the parents the most. I mean, even. Even my mom would sit there and watch, and you call out to. You see that Leslie, you see, you know, and it's like.

And she felt a part of it, and she could. She could start recognizing some stuff in my game. And, you know, when you're.

When you're struggling and your mom says something, it's like, man, come on.

Well, the first time we were sitting at a game and Leslie says separate and stride, I was like, I was cracking up because she didn't even know what it meant, but she knew that. That's what Rick said.

But Rick, you involved the parent, and so they. They play that role that they need to and that.

That supervising the training because, you know, they're responsible for their players development overall. And then what kind of influence comes in? And you know as well as anybody that the main difference is what happens at home.

In the personal regimen, you can. You can go to practice three times a week, but if you're not doing your own thing every day, then what's. Then what's the point?

And so instructing the parents on being able to assist at home is a big deal.

That reminder. But last, I mean, for my case, we were talking earlier about it.

You have a lot of people try to give you advice, and my saying is that too many voices, too many choices. Yes. So finding an individual that you trust, a coach that you trust, and go from there.

Yes.

But you have too many voices, have too many choices. Okay, I want you to have your elbow up. I want you to spread your feet. I want you to tilt your head. I want you to close one eye.

So it's not gonna work.

Level swing. Let it travel. Wait for your pitch. Be aggressive out there. It's no wonder young players get confused at the plate.

What if your son or daughter could learn not only how to hit the ball, but also where to hit it, when to hit it there, and why? George Foster has played baseball at the very highest levels.

He was the National League MVP when he hit 52 home runs and 149 arc RBIs in a single season. He led the major leagues in home runs twice and RBIs three times.

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Okay, so what I want to do is kind of wrap everything up here today, okay? And kind of look at we talked about power hitting, we talked about coaching, we talked about hitting for average, we talked about developing players.

That's what this, this podcast is all about. That's why we call it the Complete Game, because we're going to talk about everything there is to talk about in one episode or another.

So if you've enjoyed this, if you've enjoyed the the conversation, let us know. You know, leave a, leave a five star rating, give us a, give us a thumbs up, give us a comment.

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Check us out at 2CreativeDigital.com on behalf of Ethan Coach Rick and the Silver Slugger George Foster, I'm Greg Dungan saying have a great week and we'll see you real soon.