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S1 E06 - Decarboxylation Of Cannabinoids
Episode 626th January 2021 • The Modern Extractor • Jason Showard
00:00:00 00:36:54

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Learn the ins and outs of decarboxylation from Greg Arias, co-founder of Concentrated Science. Greg and Jason discuss what is actually happening on a molecular level when decarbing your material, as well as specific SOPs for a streamlined and efficient decarb process.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Jason Showard - 00:00:10 

Hello and welcome to episode six of The Modern Extractor. This podcast focuses on the processes, equipment, and science found inside a cannabis extraction laboratory. I'm your host Jason Showard, and I work professionally in the cannabis extraction field. Here in season one, we're focusing on ethanol extraction and post-processing, with each episode digging deep into a particular stage in that process. The shows are released in an order that follows the workflow through a lab, as material makes its way from Cultivar to concentrate. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:00:39 

Last week on the show, we had Ray Van Lenten, founder and CEO of TruSteel on to help us break down falling film evaporation. Ray hooked us up with some amazing tips and tricks to get the most out of a falling film. He also broke down his decarb SOPs for use on their DR 10 decarboxylation unit. That's the same unit that I use and I absolutely love it. Moving on to this week's show, let's catch back up with our material on its way through the lab. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:01:06 

We've performed a cold ethanol extraction in a centrifuge and cold filtered it through a lenticular filter. Last week we took the resulting miscella and ran it through a Falling film evaporator to separate the oil we're after from the ethanol that we used to extract it. We were left with ethanol that's going to be sent back and used for future extractions and crude oil, which we're going to decarboxylate today. We heard Ray's decarb tech last week. But mine's a bit different. Let's get into it. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:01:33 

Now, I'd agree with Ray that a nitrogen sparge to push the air out of your decarb unit is ideal, but I've gotten pretty good results without doing it. Since, unlike Ray, I remove the solvent under vacuum. First off, fire up your cold trap chiller to protect your vacuum system. The condenser will catch any solvents removed from the crude. I like to bring my crude oil in and hold it at eighty degrees Celsius under vacuum of about -30 inches of mercury. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:01:57 

While it boils the remaining solvent off. It's important not to overfill the unit while doing this, or you can get some bumping of product into your condenser. This is a mess and it sucks to deal with, so don't overdo it. If you end up too full, you can lower your vacuum level a little bit. I bought the fourth ever DR 10 from TruSteel, so mine doesn't have an internal thermocouple to read the process temperature. I usually wait about fifteen minutes at 80C, then kick it up to 90 for about another ten minutes just to ensure all the solvent's gone. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:02:25 

Once I'm sure all the residual solvents are gone, I set my heater to 110C and start a timer for 40 minutes. Keep in mind that my process temp is 90 when I set that timer. Since I don't have an internal thermocouple, I don't have the ability to check the process temperature. So we just had to send out some lab tests along the way to make sure our decarb was going correctly. The oil makes it to 110 in, I would guess about ten minutes after I set it there, then spends another 30 at 110. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:02:54 

Then I immediately set the temperature on the heater back down to 70. Again, I'm using an older DR 10, so I don't have the ability to cool my process down like the fancy new ones do. Once my heater reads an incoming temperature of 70, I'll drain the decarbed crude out of the system and send it on to the next stage in the process. Well, a lot of people talk about decarboxylation and everybody's got some decarb SOPs that they use. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:03:18 

Many don't understand the mysterious molecular magic that's actually going on inside your decarb vessel. And we're going to fix that. Joining us today to help break down decarboxylation, we have Greg Arias. Chemical engineer with Concentrated Science and Aftermath Laboratories. Greg is one of the smartest people I know and literally my first call as soon as I need to call in some science reinforcements. So without any further ado, Greg Arias, welcome to The Modern Extractor. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:03:44 

How's it going Jason? 

 

Jason Showard - 00:03:46 

Hey, pretty good man. Where are you calling in from today? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:03:49 

Calling in from my closet in Venice, California. That's the best place I could find to record around here. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:03:57 

I appreciate the little bit of extra care taken to make sure you sound good. Thank you. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:04:03 

No problem, man. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:04:05 

So Venice. You're a semi-recent transplant to the L.A. area in general. Tell us a little bit about your journey to working in the cannabis field here in Cali. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:04:18 

Yeah, of course. So back in 2013, I started my journey out west from New Mexico, my home state. Went to Arizona State University for my master's in chemical engineering, studied specifically fuel cell technology there. I was out in Arizona for about six years. I had always kind of wanted to come out to California anyway. That was my main goal. But I got a little side-tracked for about six years in my way, in Phoenix, I started distilling after I graduated. So I was making vodka, gin, rum, whiskey, you name it. All of the general spirits at Ohso Distillery. So - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:05:16 

That was fantastic, by the way. I was the beneficiary of some of those. They're great. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:05:21 

Appreciate that. Yeah. No, I had a lot of fun with that. That was a very, very cool little side quest, if you will, on the way out here. So, yeah, I was responsible for our recipe development, flavor creation, and things of that nature out there. So I was making all of the delicious spirits and flavors that people would be drinking on a daily basis out there. So during that time at the distillery, I had a friend turn me on to the cannabis industry. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:05:57 

She mentioned that one of her close friends was in a lab and looking for an assistant extractor because they were just taking off. Just like the industry seems to be doing right now. So I got in over there in 2017. Started doing some part-time work while I was still at the distillery. So I was in a supercritical carbon dioxide lab making extracts there. That was a short-lived little taste of the industry. That company was expansion of a larger Colorado company. They kind of phased themselves out after about two, three years there. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:06:52 

And, after that, I didn't really think about it much more until you called me up in January of 2019. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:07:04 

Glad I did too. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:07:06 

Yeah. Seriously, man. It was, you told me that there was some big opportunity out here in California to really get a taste of the industry, really start to build a career around it. And I had always thought when I was younger, I think it would be pretty cool to go into the cannabis research and development. Like actual lab scale proceedings of cannabis. But I never thought it would come to fruition as much as it did because of all the legislation out there. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:07:38 

Yeah, I remember when it was, I think it was Concentration 2019. We decided to meet up and have the conversation, and meet the team, and figure it all out. I'm very happy you made your way out. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:07:52 

Yes. And that was a fun weekend there at the Pala casino. I won't get into the details, but - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:08:00 

I think I'm still paying that off. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:08:02 

Yeah. Aren't we all? Why do they always have these conventions at casinos? I mean, is it. Well, we can make one guess as to why, but - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:08:13 

They know their audience well. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:08:15 

Yeah, of course. They know the risk tolerance of this audience. Right. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:08:20 

You got it. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:08:23 

So then after that. Moved out here. Started doing some terpene creation for a mutual friend of ours through Aftermath Labs, and we created our line of Sierra Turps and - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:08:44 

We'll shout out to Devon here. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:08:46 

Yep. Thanks a lot Devon. We appreciate it. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:08:49 

Yeah definitely. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:08:51 

Yeah, and then everything was going pretty good there as soon as I moved down. Then I think we all remember this very, in various capacities. But the vape crisis hit us. So that being the main outlet for the terpenes, that took a pretty big hit on the entire industry. So we kind of took a step back from there and - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:09:20 

Yeah, it came to a screeching halt and it was pretty brutal. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:09:22 

Oh, yeah. Now that was a tough time. And then wouldn't you know it right after that happened, then COVID hit. And then another couple of hits happened to the industry. So then that that led me to having to adapt, realizing that this was kind of the new normal now. Took a side career, so to speak, as I call it. As a sanitizer manufacturer. So I was a - 

 

Jason Showard - 00:09:52 

Yeah, I was right there with you, man. We jumped into that one together. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:09:56 

I remember. Yeah. Well, I don't think we'll ever forget that. That was a whole career in four months. A lifelong career in four months. It was unreal times. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:10:06 

That I was a wild story. Maybe we'll do a bonus episode on that ridiculoucity. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:10:10 

Yeah. That's a good idea. Spinoff. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:10:14 

Yeah. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:10:15 

And if anybody needs to know how to make good sanitizer, I've got a, I know a guy now. It's me so. Yeah. Then since then, after that kind of side quest if you will, into sanitizer, that's opened up a pretty large career of consulting for me. So now that I had had some cannabis knowledge under my belt, and now some sanitizer knowledge under my belt, I've been able to just kind of dance around doing some consulting for some labs up in Adelanto, California. And sanitizer consulting still down here in Los Angeles. Because that's just like the cannabis industry, I don't think the sanitizer industry is going anywhere anytime soon. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:11:09 

This is true. Just to clarify, for those of you who don't know Adelanto, it's one of the largest cannabis hubs here in Southern California. There's a ton of stuff going on down there. And I can attest to Greg doesn't want to toot his own horn here, but the lab that he's working at out there is fantastic. It is a facility, unlike anything I've ever seen before. It's awesome. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:11:33 

Looks like a P Diddy music video. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:11:36 

It really does. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:11:38 

It's well put together. It's very well thought out. And it is modern. It is very well-oiled machinery up there. And to just be a part of that is fabulous. Again, just to be at the forefront of, you know, modern technology in cannabis extraction is a very great gift, I think. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:12:01 

Yeah, yeah. And now you've kind of established a foothold here in town. You're tending to bounce around, a little less to just like whoever wants to hire you and more to whoever's got the hardest science and formulations that they're working on. I've definitely watched your schedule filled up over the past couple of years. And, you know, congratulations on that. What's the most interesting thing that you're working on currently or recently that you can talk about? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:12:26 

So not to get into too much detail. NDAs and proprietary information and whatnot. But cannabinoid conversions is the big one. Other than that, formulating is my main strong suit. Like you said, it's just trying to figure out what are the best recipes for making, for solving difficult questions that we have in the field. And this, of course, started when I was making terpene recipes here. But I'm most excited about my joint venture with you, Jason. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:13:04 

We're opening up a lab supply storefront, along with our general consulting services. So I'll be providing the lab-scale based consulting. So all of your analytical equipment, small scale research-oriented and development procedures. And then you, of course, will be doing the scale-up. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:13:31 

You got it, man. I couldn't have said it better myself. Definitely really excited about that one, too. It's been a long time coming. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:13:38 

Yeah, man. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:13:39 

I'll make sure to keep all you guys out there posted on the progress from that project as it comes along. Greg, circling back a little bit to what you mentioned prior to our side project. In regard to your solving difficult questions on the formulation work, I don't think I've ever seen you in a happier place than when you've got a hard problem on the desk in front of you. As far as formulation goes. It's definitely your sweet spot. Why do you think that is? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:14:05 

It's all a big puzzle out here. We're in one giant puzzle. There is methods to find it. There is language to find it. And that language is math and science, chemistry, physics. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:14:20 

Yeah. That's why I call you first man. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:14:22 

Yeah. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:14:23 

In regard to the conversions, something that I've heard you speak about a lot, which I find a really interesting analogy for it, is that you call it molecular Legos. Like you can basically take things apart, put them back together and really build from a molecular standpoint. I've always been more process-oriented. And like when I get you talking about the molecular Lego aspect, it's always fascinating to me. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:14:47 

Yeah, I kind of came up with well I'm not, I'm obviously not the first one because Legos are a thing before I was born. But I recall in undergrad, when I was studying organic chemistry under Dr. Yanser at New Mexico Tech. I'd first gotten my foray into developing novel anticancer drugs, and they would show me the skeletal structures of chemicals and, you know, kind of walk me through the process. This is the reagent that we add. This is the products that we get out and they look very similar. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:15:27 

And I'm like, "Oh, so you're just like putting pieces onto a smaller thing. Or taking off pieces. It's just like Legos. It's, and I love Legos growing up." So it's all like Legos that you can't see. You have to put it in a special machine to see, but it's Legos nonetheless. And that's just, it's just always has been fascinating, organic synthesis, organic decomposition it's just, it's wildly interesting to me. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:15:51 

It's a little bit tougher than building Legos, though, considering you've got to build Legos with a blindfold. And then finally, after you're done, take it off and see how you did. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:15:59 

Yeah, hope the best. Hope for the best yeah. It's kind of the magic of it, though right? Before photography became such a ubiquitous thing, you know, you would take a film photo and hope for the best. And that's kind of what it is. And that's, you're taking a little snapshot down here. And hopefully, it's what you want. And that's kind of like a pleasant surprise if you do get it. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:16:22 

Yeah, it's certainly some job security because there's a lot of people that are far less patient than you. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:16:28 

Oh man. It's just, you got to love what you do I guess. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:16:33 

That's true. So just the whole concept of not being able to see exactly what you're doing is a good segway into our main topic on the show today, which is decarboxylation. Up into this point of the process, you've really been able to get some pretty visual feedback about how you're doing. Decarb is one of the first stages where that's not necessarily the case. Well, it's definitely not the case. And in order to get feedback on that, you've got to really send it in for some lab test. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:17:06 

So it's an interesting topic. And I'm glad to have you on here for a little bit of the theorizing and to break it down with us. So last week we heard Ray Van Lenten from TruSteel take on decarb and his SOPs. I talked about my SOPs at the top of the show here. They aren't the same, which is interesting. And we're both getting good results. So when I talk to you a little bit about that before, you'd mentioned that they're on, you know, on a similar curve. It seems like the jury's still a little bit out on the ultimate optimized procedure for decarb. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:17:43 

And again, it varies from THC to CBD. So let's, I like to get into picking all that apart and kind of demystify decarb a little bit. Give us the rundown on what's actually happening on a molecular level while we're decarbing. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:18:00 

OK, yes. So, the main process of decarboxylation in general, is just removal of a carboxyl functional group. A carboxyl functional group is a carbon double bonded to an oxygen, and that same carbon bonded to a hydroxyl group. That's the acid group in this case. So decarboxylation is a universally known process. One of the oldest known processes actually, chemical processes. And decarbing is again just removal of this carboxyl functional group. And what that does is it displaces carbon dioxide, and in its place on the molecule, wherever that carboxyl group was on the molecule, it will leave behind that little hydrogens. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:18:57 

So you are netting carbon dioxide, which can be removed and vented off and then keeping the hydrogen group. So the reason why we need to decarboxylate our cannabis material, is because there's very little to no effect if it's not decarboxylates. This is due to it not being able to attach to the receptors in our body that take THC on. So the THC A just will kind of pass by it. It won't attach and activate the CB 1 and CB 2 receptors. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:19:38 

However, when that carboxyl group is removed, it can attach. And this is analogous in the digestive system. So when your body takes in amino acids, the amino acids need to be decarboxylated to activate the gastrin, is what it's called. Which is your gastric juices, to start digesting these proteins. And this is due to the solubility of carboxylic acids versus alcohol form, the neutral form, so to speak. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:20:17 

Gotcha. This sounds similar to, does this apply to the bioavailability, which is another thing a lot of people are working on in the cannabis field? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:20:27 

Um hmm. The decarboxylated form is more bioavailable. Possibly due to it being more oil soluble again, than the carboxylated form, which has a bigger, more bulky and kind of clunkier molecule to it. So, yes, it is more bioavailable. Yes, that's a very good analogy, actually. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:20:49 

Interesting. OK. So decarb, like I mentioned earlier, is kind of the first stage along the way, where you can't really see physical results or how well you did. It's also the only chemical reaction that happens in the whole process in the lab. Where everything else is primarily physical. Without lab testing, you really don't know how well you did at your conversion. I'd venture to say that most of the listeners out there don't have an in-house HPLC or really a budget to continually send out lab tests. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:21:21 

So there's a lot of people out there that kind of found an SOP that worked well for them. Probably tested it, if they're one of the larger labs. And confirmed that they are doing well with it, and then just kind of stuck with it. So myself included on that. Until you recently checked me on that a little bit. But that's why I like to have you around to go deep. So talk to us a little bit about where the industry stands currently on decarb. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:21:49 

To be quite frank, there is no right way to really know for certain what the correct decarb temperature is, if that makes sense. So as research gets better and better, as we really start to understand the actual process itself, and really start to shore in on the temperatures, and the times, and conversion efficiencies that we need. We can get a really good idea of what the optimum temperature and time is. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:22:24 

But as of now, there is not so much an accord, because most of the research takes place under wildly different conditions. You have people just decarbing straight flower. They just take the flower, grind it up and then put it in an oven, in an open container. You have certain people taking it and putting it in high boiling point solvents, doing a liquid phase decarboxylation. You have certain people doing it in a vacuum oven. You have, the list goes on. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:23:02 

But really, it's not the goal of our scientists to say, "We know exactly what it is." The goal of the science papers and all of this literature, is to try and prove ourselves wrong, really. We're trying to make it better every time. We're not trying to tell you exactly the right temperature to be decarbing at. We're trying to tell you, "Here's a jumping-off point. We have this. You know, we have this temperature. We have this time. Give it a shot. What do you have? What do you get out? Let's compare results." 

 

Greg Arias - 00:23:39 

You know, it's about collaboration. It's about trying to find. We're trying to find that unattainable goal of truth of what it really is. And will we ever find it? I don't know. But I mean, I can definitely give you the tools to get there. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:23:54 

It's a breath of fresh air to hear that, because in the cannabis industry specifically, there's a whole lot of secrecy. Everybody trying to protect IP and just a ton of people telling you that they know exactly what the best SOP is, and the best way to do things is. And really, we're not there yet. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:24:10 

No, no. And again, I mean, it is such a new field. Oh, not terribly new. I mean, I've been looking through the papers and there's evidence of extraction and decarb going back to the seventies. I mean, it has been documented and we're getting better at it. But again, yeah, we're not, we don't know for sure. But I feel like the point of this would be to at least give people an idea of where to go if they want to try it on their own. Because I think that then, from there, maybe they can find out what works best for them and possibly what works best for somebody else. I mean, it's a give and take. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:24:53 

Yeah, I think it's important to point out here also that, well, you say, "We don't know for sure." You say that kind of thing when you are 99% of the way to an optimized procedure. I think part of what you enjoy about science is trying to get that extra 1%. But a lot of your procedures nail it pretty well. Then you can, you know, very easily turn around and say, "We're not sure." So I think it's worth pointing out that you're pretty good at this. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:25:24 

Yeah, I am, not to draw back on the conclusions we made before. But the thicker hand sanitizer kills 99.9% of bacteria. I want that .001. And that .0001. Because why not? Let's make it a little bit better. Let's shoot for a little bit better every time. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:25:43 

Well, that's why I love you, sir. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:25:46 

That's why we're here bud. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:25:49 

I do think it's worth circling back a little bit to talk about, you were talking about the different methods people are using for decarbing. Since we're specifically talking about taking the leaf material or the biomass all the way through to a concentrate such as distillate or isolate in this show, I would say that the industry standard here is definitely to take your product to an oil state as we've run through in the previous episodes in the show. And then while it is in an oil that has had the majority of the solvents removed from it, 99% of the solvents removed from it. Something to that effect. To then turn around and decarb that oil is the current industry standard. So that's, I think, just worth circling back to there from an educational standpoint for folks listening. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:26:45 

Absolutely. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:26:47 

So then along those lines, there's a bit of a curve for the efficiency, the conversion efficiency for this. Can you elaborate a little bit on that curve? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:27:00 

Yeah. So I'm sure anybody who's done a little bit of digging has come across a similar curve like this. They see a slow parabolic rise of conversion efficiency over time at a certain temperature. And then after they reach that temperature or go beyond that temperature, the conversion efficiency suddenly drops back down. So what that's saying again is you need it to be a high enough temperature to convert the maximum amount of THC A to THC or CBD A to CBD without loss of product. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:27:42 

The main consensus that I'd been finding was you have to go at least above 110 degrees Celsius to really start getting that reaction to take off. The decarboxylation reaction happens no matter what over time. And you can just let it sit there and it would eventually decarb. And that's why, you know, like your parents' stash might have a little bit of already ready to go stuff as it is. So who knows, maybe you could get a little bit of buzz off of that. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:28:19 

Moving on from there. There's been a lot of press recently regarding the differences between THC A and CBD A regarding decarb. I've seen a lot out there about low and slow for CBD, and I agree with that. And I feel like THC is a little bit more resilient. What are your thoughts on that? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:28:38 

Yeah, that's actually what the research suggests as well from previous papers and the most recent paper that I found during my studies. July 2020, there is a paper released stating just that. Yes, that THC seems to decompose or de-generate just at a constant rate no matter the temperature. So it's almost temperature independent, if you will. Meaning that if you decarb at 90 or you decarb at 200 Celsius, you're going to kind of get about the same amount of loss. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:29:18 

There's no real variation in the amount of loss. If you do decarb for a very, at the very high temperatures for longer, you will lose, you will start to lose product. But that's not necessary because you're decarbing at such a high temperature. However, the opposite is true for, like you said, for CBD. At higher temperatures, you do see a very dramatic loss of CBD concentration. The optimum temperature that they found was 90 degrees Celsius for 12 hours. So it's definitely a longer, slower process. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:30:05 

And again, this is just due to the CBD having a much more fragile structure or a much greater tendency, they theorize, to decompose, polymerase, turn into again, un-useful side products. But it is just very interesting to see that. Yes, CBD and THC are definitely not built the same. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:30:33 

It's also worth mentioning here that usually in your lab, decarb isn't going to be your bottleneck. It would be very difficult to turn decarb into your bottleneck. And since that's probably the case, you've got time on that machine. You know, you can take that extra time to be a little bit more gentle with your material. So why do it so fast if you don't have to? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:31:01 

That's true. Yes. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:31:02 

All right. Well, I think that gives us a bunch of great information regarding decarb. And a lot for you guys to chew on out there to make decisions about what is best for your situation. Greg, well, while we've got you here to wrap things up a little bit, what are you most excited about in regard to the future here of the extraction industry? 

 

Greg Arias - 00:31:27 

Well, like I said earlier, I'm just terribly fascinated with all of the new cannabinoids, all the novel cannabinoids coming out. There's very little research done there because, you know, it's almost a grab bag of "Put CB or TH and then throw any letter of the alphabet, any combination of letters of the alphabet behind it. And then you've got a new cannabinoid." 

 

Greg Arias - 00:31:55 

And I just, I would like to see where that goes. That's just very interesting to me to see that there's these new ones coming out. These new ones being synthesized and potentially what they do in comparison, because there's countably infinite ways to have just the THC molecule reorganized in space, really. So to see those develop, and along with the, I think a couple of years back, there is a buzz about yeast producing cannabinoids. So using bioreactors, that's always been kind of fascinating to me as well. Seeing little tiny molecules, little microbes, little microorganisms, again, playing Legos with themselves and just building cannabinoids for us. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:32:45 

So that's, I would say some time out still and probably only for laboratory grade standards and laboratory grade amounts. But I think that that's a pretty cool thing to see regardless, because that's a huge step in biochemistry, which is where I got my first real taste of synthesis in. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:33:05 

Yeah, absolutely. I'm super interested in the biosynthesis side of things as well. I follow as much of that as I can online and just kind of try to stay on top of that. Because I think it's going to be a huge game changer if they figure out how to scale something like that. You know, it'll also be great for creating standards and really pure, pure samples. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:33:23 

But if they figure out a scale something like that, it's going to be a game changer. There's a lot of growers out there that will not be thrilled about it. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:33:31 

Oh, no, no. Yeah, because, I mean, they're going to be out of the job because the yeast will be doing all the work now. It's what they always said at the brewery was, "I don't make beer. The yeast do all the work. I'm just the janitor. I'm just cleaning the tanks. I'm making the yeast happy. The yeast are the ones doing all the heavy lifting." 

 

Jason Showard - 00:33:47 

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So moving on from that, if people want to get a hold of you, what's the best way to reach out? 

 

Jason Showard - 00:33:55 

Best way right now is, greg@concentratedscience.com. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:34:02 

All right. Sounds good. Well make sure you reach out to Greg for any of your consulting needs. He's certainly my first call for anything that is beyond my understanding and definitely a huge asset to have on the team. So I can't recommend Greg highly enough. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:34:21 

Appreciate that man. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:34:22 

So, Greg, thank you so much for coming on The Modern Extractor, we're very happy to talk to you today. 

 

Greg Arias - 00:34:27 

Absolutely man. Anytime. Glad to be working with you. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:34:31 

All right, another big thanks to Greg Arias for joining us on the show today. That man can make sense of anything. And I guarantee you've never worked with someone that's in this good of a mood all the time. If you want to get a hold of Greg for consulting on custom formulations, conversions, remediation or anything else in the field, he can definitely help. He even makes a mean mix of hand sanitizer and a pretty decent batch of whiskey. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:34:54 

Reach out to them via email, greg@concentratedscience.com. As Greg mentioned earlier in the show, we're joining forces for a venture into consulting services and lab supplies. Right now, we've got the supply chain side of things worked out, but we're still working on building websites and polishing up the public facing side of things. It was going to be next to impossible to have Greg on the show and not talk about it. So you guys got a little bit of a sneak preview before the official launch. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:35:20 

Since we do already have the supply chain down, that means we can offer great pricing on extraction solvents, gases and gas blends, carbon chemistry, filtration media. And I'm buying and selling used gear all the time. So if any of that sounds like it's something you're into, by all means, drop me a line, jason@californialabsupply.com. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:35:41 

As always, if you want to hear something specific on the show, let me know. Email me, jason@themodernextractor.com. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:35:48 

Make sure to follow the show on Instagram, the_modern_extractor. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:35:55 

If you guys like the show, please subscribe and give us a rating. The more subscribers and better ratings we get, the better guests I can book for you here in the future. Stay tuned for next week's episode, where we'll have John Hart, founder of Chem Tech Services, on to breakdown distillation theory and what's happening inside a wiped film evaporator. A big thanks to Yzaura Vanegas for handling business on the social media side of the show. 

 

Jason Showard - 00:36:17 

And a warm welcome to all you new listeners. We're up to 19 countries people are tuning in from now. Thanks again to everybody for tuning in to The Modern Extractor. New episodes are out every Tuesday. I'm Jason Showard. Let's talk soon. 

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