This podcast episode unveils the fascinating story of Frank Hering, a pioneering figure in the development of the overhand spiral pass in football and an unexpected contributor to the establishment of Mother's Day. Host Darin Hayes engages with Tim Brown from footballarchaeology.com, who shares insights into Herring's remarkable journey from the University of Chicago to coaching at Notre Dame and Bucknell University. The discussion highlights Herring's innovative play style that revolutionized the passing game during the 1890s and the unique connection between his legacy and the creation of a day honoring mothers. As they explore Herring's life and achievements, listeners are treated to a blend of football history and unexpected trivia. Join them as they celebrate the contributions of a figure whose influence extends beyond the gridiron into cultural history.

Of course, this story is based on Tim's Tidbit titled Frank Hering, The Overhand Spiral, and Mother's Day

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You're just in time to hear a story about a man that helped develop the passing game as we know it today.

And a surprising twist of another innovation he did later in life.

Tim Brown comes to tell us a tale from footballarchaeology.com and he's up in just a moment.

This is the Pigskin Daily History Dispatch, a podcast that covers the anniversaries of American football events throughout history.

Your host, Darren Hayes is podcasting from America's North Shore to bring you the memories of the gridiron one day at a time.

Hello, my football friends.

This is Darren Hayes of pigskindispatch.com welcome once again to the Pig Pen, your portal to positive football history.

And welcome to another edition where we get to go back in time into some great gridiron history with our friend Timothy p.

Brown of footballarchaeology.com.

tim, welcome back to the Pig Pen.

Hey, Darren, thanks for having me.

Looking forward to chatting about the herrings of the world.

There's a sea full of them.

Yeah, yeah.

And I don't think you'll give us a red herring on this one.

I think we're gonna go right to.

Assume that I meant C as in water as opposed to C as in Chicago.

Oh, boy.

See, was that your.

Is that your letterman sweater that.

That Mr.

Stagg gave you?

Yeah, this is.

Stag gave this to me personally from.

No.

So we're going to talk some Chicago Maroons.

That's a.

That's a great thing.

And learn about a gentleman that, you know, until you.

Your tidbit came out recently, I didn't know much about Frank Herring.

And your title of your tidbit was Frank Herring, the Overhand Spiral and Mother's Day.

What a lot going on in that title.

Yeah.

Hope to see some clarity by the end here.

Sure.

Can I start?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Please, please.

So, yeah, so, I mean, he's a guy that I really had never paid attention to, but I've been doing.

I'm, you know, still research.

I've written a fair amount, but I'm, you know, still researching topics for my history of the early forward pass, you know, the next book that I'm working on.

But so anyways, he figured out how to do this.

And so Stag kind of took advantage of that because Herring was the team quarterback.

And so oftentimes the quarterback or the fullback would be the guys who would, you know, be deep.

They'd kind of be like the deep safety on defense.

And so they were the ones that often return punts.

So they had it set up that, you know, if the punt came to him and he had time, he would sometimes turn and throw an overhand spiral lateral to a teammate who's over on the other side of the field, and then that guy would take off.

And, you know, I've come across references to Fielding Yost doing the same thing with his either Kansas or Nebraska teams, you know, before he moved to Michigan.

So, so, so we could almost probably put this like the, the Music City Miracle or the Tennessee Titans.

I don't know if they were Tennessee Titans at that time, but they, they beat somebody in a playoff game on one of those plays.

Might have been Buffalo they beat or they.

They.

They're on a punt play and threw a backwards pass all the way across the field.

And yeah, Frank Weiss, I think, caught it and went for big yardage.

Yeah, I mean, that's the nature of it.

It's kind of like the lonesome end, or they used to call it the, the shoestring play, where a guy would be sitting there acting like he's tying a shoe and, you know, be way, you know, away from the rest of the team and then take off downfield.

But so anyway, so, you know, Stag says this guy, you know, through.

Through the pass and.

But so he was on the Chicago team that went west.

So crossed The Rockies for Christmas, 94, played Stanford, played the Reliance Athletic.

They played.

They played like a Salt Lake City team on the way back.

And then they played one other game while they're.

While they were in California.

But anyways, first team to cross the Rockies.

So he's part of that whole game.

But I don't know if it was after that semester, after that year.

He then transferred.

Now he was from Williamsport, Pennsylvania, and that's just 30 miles from where Bucknell is so, and this is something I didn't research prior to the, to the writing the, the tidbit, but I did research it more, you know, to talk to you to tonight.

So he was at Chicago 93 and 94.

In, in 95, he coached and played for Bucknell.

And so this is Herring right there.

And so he stays there a year.

He also was the baseball and basketball coach, you know, during that time or during that year.

And then for whatever reason, he transfers to Notre Dame the next year.

So he basically, he played his senior year, he was the captain, the coach and the quarterback for Notre Dame in 96.

He remains on campus for two more years, coaches football two years.

And I think he also had basketball, baseball those years as well.

And then, you know, he graduated law school and then ends up, you know, sticking around in, in the South Bend area.

But one of the reasons, you know, Herring came up in yesterday's tidbit, I shouldn't say yesterday's, he came up in another tidbit because he ended up.

He.

It's the only time they have beaten them at Notre Dame.

And of course, they play in the first round of the playoffs, so we'll see if they can beat them for a second.

And folks, we know that that game's already been played when this is airing, so we don't know the outcome.

If we did, we wouldn't be sitting here on podcast.

We'd probably be raking in millions somewhere.

So then, so then the final thing, you know, you mentioned the title, Frank Herring, the Overhead Spiral and Mother's Day.

So living in South Bend, he became involved with the Elks, you know, the fraternal organization or service organization.

And so that that was kind of the beginning of a movement to create a Mother's day.

And so the guy who is best, we know the first one to throw the overhand spiral is also the inventor of the, of Mother's Day.

So he's the father of Mother's Day.

I, I still laugh at that.

I, I read when you wrote it and I still find it funny.

Very, very catchy.

That's one of your better ones.

That's.

Well, that was actually.

I kind of stole that from a Notre Dame, had a story about it and they had that in there, too.

Father and Mother's Day, I'll credit due to them.

All hail Notre Dame.

All right, here we go.

We got you to root for Notre Dame for once.

That's good.

Yes.

So, Tim, that.

That is like one of those great stories that sort of blindsides, you know, the reader when we read, when I read it, or, you know, the listener here today.

Just a cool thing to connect, you know, something that we're all familiar with, Mother's Day with this unknown player from, you know, 120 some years ago.

It's pretty cool.

I mean, I.

I had no idea.

Right.

I mean, so I started.

This is one of those where I came across stag saying, hey, I had this player.

So then I start following him and chasing him down and all of a sudden, you know, one of the.

I find this thing saying that he invented Mother's Day.

So figured out how to go with that.

Your pigskin sleuthing and research has done it again.

So it's a great story and I'm glad that you were able to preserve this guy and bring him to our attention in the modern world and, you know, hopefully we keep his story alive for future generations.

Once again, I'm going to use my fancy pointing skills.

That is the man.

That's Frank, folks.

He's just shown off because he knows that I can't do that and find anything in my background because my other hand too.

Oh, my gosh, he's ambidextrous even.

Yes, Tim, speaking of showing off, you know, why don't you tell folks where they can see your work and your tidbits, you know, not only about Frank Herring, but some of the other great stories and you show those off to the world too.

From football, archaeology.

Yeah, sure.

Just go to footballarchaeology.com you can subscribe by submitting your email address.

It's a substack site, so it's, you know, widely used newsletter platform.

But once you subscribe, you'll get the newsletter.

Every time I publish a story, you'll get.

Get an email that contains the story.

Of course, you can always go there whenever you want.

You can also follow me on.

On Blue sky where I, you know, I post the fact that a story came out and, you know, provide some commentary here and there on.

On some other things.

So Anyways, that's the best way to do it.

Well, he is Tim Brown.

FootballArchaeology.com is his site and we thank you, Tim, for for joining us once again.

And we'd love to talk to you again next week about some more great football history.

Very good.

Look forward to it.

Thanks.

That's all the football history we have today, folks.

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