Shownotes
The True Purpose of Prenups - "I think people think of prenuptial as Just planning for divorce. But all marriages end in one of two ways, divorce or death. And so where I find that some agreements fall short is in planning for the second scenario, whichever it is." - Larae Schraeder
Let’s be honest—talking about prenups with a partner, friend, or family member can feel uncomfortable and sticky. The conversation is often laced with worries about trust, fairness, and what it means for a relationship.
That’s exactly why we felt it was important to bring clarity to this conversation.
To help us do just that, we invited Larae Schraeder, an award-winning attorney from Schraeder Law, who specializes in estate planning, probate, and elder law. Larae brings a wealth of experience, with her background in both law and financial services, making her perspective especially valuable for this topic.
We explore the ins and outs of prenups and postnups, why open conversations about finances are critical before tying the knot, and how these legal documents can go far beyond just preparing for divorce.
From protecting children and business interests to navigating new changes in Ohio law, this episode is packed with practical advice and personal stories to help couples (and their families) prepare for whatever the future may hold.
If you like this episode, please let us know. We appreciate the feed back, and your support of offset costs of producing the podcast!
5 Keys You’ll Learn from This Episode:
Why talking finances before marriage is a must—even if you’re not Bill Gates (spoiler: it’s about all relationships, not just the rich ones).
What a prenup really covers—it’s not just about divorce, but also what happens when marriage ends by death.
How enforceable is your napkin agreement? (Hint: Notarization, signatures, and full disclosure are everything!)
The lowdown on postnups—did you know Ohio just updated its laws, making postnuptial agreements an option for couples already married?
Myths vs. reality: Prenups aren’t just about protecting yourself—they can also protect children, address business ventures, and even outline how to handle unexpected windfalls (hello, surprise royalties or farm booms!).
Moments
04:55 Notarization for Real Estate Promises
06:52 Prenups: Beyond Divorce Planning
10:54 Undisclosed Assets in Divorce Settlements
15:24 Marital Agreements and Estate Planning
16:53 Prenuptial Agreements: Motivations and Considerations
20:43 Prenup Considerations for Unique Needs
23:14 Medicaid Impact on Long-Term Care
26:06 Updated Divorce Agreement Strategies
30:06 Contracts Beyond Marriage: Versatile Agreements
32:29 Podcast Insights with Larae Schrader
We would love to hear from you.
Give us your feedback, or suggest a topic, by leaving us a voice message.
Email us at hello@lookingforwardourway.com.
Find us on Bluesky and Facebook.
Please review our podcast on Google!
And of course, everything can be found on our website, Looking Forward Our Way.
Recorded in Studio C at 511 Studios. A production of Circle 270 Media® Podcast Consultants.
https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nd/4.0/
Copyright 2026 Carol Ventresca and Brett Johnson
Mentioned in this episode:
Listener Disclaimer
The views and opinions expressed by the experts interviewed on this podcast are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views of the podcast hosts or any affiliated organizations. The information provided in these interviews is for general informational purposes only and should not be considered as professional advice. Listeners are encouraged to consult with qualified professionals for specific advice or information related to their individual circumstances. The podcast host and producers do not endorse or guarantee the accuracy, completeness, or reliability of any information provided by the experts interviewed. Listener discretion is advised.
Transcripts
We are looking forward our way. Hi, this is Brett. Have you ever had a conversation with a family member or a friend that touched on the issue of prenuptial agreements? It's a little awkward. Never sure what direction that conversation is going to go yet. Today's guest has given us critical information for many financial and legal questions. We know she's going to guide us through the financial and legal intricacies of this sticky subject. Welcome our guest, our expert guest and two time award winning Larae Schrader from Schrader Law. Larray, thanks for joining us.
Larae Schraeder [:Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Brett Johnson [:Talk about these two awards. I know I'm throwing you off here.
Larae Schraeder [:Going Gret, this was not in the script.
Brett Johnson [:No, it's not.
Larae Schraeder [:No, seriously, I'm not going to do.
Brett Johnson [:It justice if I talk about it.
Larae Schraeder [:Thank you. I was just recognized in the September issue of Columbus CEO magazine as a top lawyer in the area of elder law. And I have also recently learned that I'm recognized as a rising star by super lawyers. So these are both meaningful awards to me because they're peer nominated from other licensed attorneys and folks in the judiciary here in central Ohio. So that really, really meant something because.
Brett Johnson [:I didn't get the nomination form to do that. So it appears. That's good. That's good.
Carol Ventresca [:Okay, well. And that does make a huge difference. Much deserved. We were going back and forth on LinkedIn this morning, but yeah, those are really wonderful awards for all that you are doing that is great and helpful to your clients but it also good publicity. You know, all publicity is good publicity. So congratulations.
Brett Johnson [:Well, and it brings you, it brings that elder law attorney name back up to that practice area.
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Which until recently wasn't really well recognized.
Larae Schraeder [:It's true. And so we handle in our firm estate planning as well as probate and we do some elder law topics, which primarily means, but not exclusively helping folks plan for Medicaid and or do the applications when they're facing a crisis. So we see a variety of people that need this kind of law.
Carol Ventresca [:Loray, thank you for coming today. This was kind of a strange topic. When Brett brought this topic up, I kind of looked at him like, what.
Brett Johnson [:Are you talking about? I had to preamble it going, there is nothing going on in my marriage or anything like that. It just, I thought it was an interesting topic.
Carol Ventresca [:He did. I mean, because I looked at him and I'm like, do I need to call Angie?
Larae Schraeder [:Is there something I should know?
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah, exactly. So you know, this Is not something that you've done a lot of. And so thank you for all the research that you did for us to answer our questions. But over and above everything else, we want to talk about you. You had an interesting path before you became a lawyer. And so let's talk about that because you've only actually had your practice for a short period of time and already a two time winner. Not bad.
Larae Schraeder [:Thank. Thank you. So, yes, I started Schrader law in 2019, and that was after 25 years in financial services. So my journey really was in corporate America. And I had the chance to do night school in my late 30s, early 40s. So at 43, I earned my law license and I've been practicing seven years ever since.
Carol Ventresca [:Wonderful.
Brett Johnson [:Just right before COVID Good timing too.
Larae Schraeder [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:We all mark time there, don't we, in regards to change of something?
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah. I started part time and I really enjoyed helping families evenings and weekends. And I continued to receive so many questions from family and colleagues and neighbors that I became busier and busier and I did. I walked away. So I'm just full time dedicated to my legal clients and team.
Carol Ventresca [:That's why we love having her, because she is our model for encore careers too, so.
Brett Johnson [:Exactly. So marriage is a legal partnership for two individuals. The basis of it assuming they trust each other. It would seem that a prenuptial agreement shouldn't be needed. Does every couple moving toward marriage need to discuss this topic or just those moving into a second or third marriage? Because you hear it more often at that point in time.
Larae Schraeder [:I think discussing finances should be a prerequisite for marriage. Whether or not they go to the level of formalizing arrangements, I think may not be needed for every single couple. But the fact that it exists, the fact that it's a topic to understand and feel confident that someone has fully disclosed their assets as well as their debts. I think it's also increasingly important for people who come from families that have had second marriages or multiple marriages and where there are children that you're looking to protect. So depending on the situation. Which is a lawyer's favorite answer anyway?
Brett Johnson [:It all depends.
Larae Schraeder [:It depends. Yeah, I think it depends as to whether or not it should be required. But I think that everyone should have a frank conversation. And it certainly doesn't hurt to have it notarized. Meaning, like written down on paper with someone officially saying it.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah, you just sort of caught me off there. I mean, I would have assumed that it needed to be official in some capacity. Notarizing would Be one way. So.
Larae Schraeder [:Well, when land comes into play, if you say you're going to leave this family home of mine, you know, I'm going to let you stay here forever. Right. But you need to make sure that after I'm gone that it's going to come back to me then. Certain things that deal with real estate in particular require notarization. So if you're going to make certain promises about the family farm, you want to make sure that it would be so. Yeah, you could, you know, map out something on a napkin at a restaurant. Right. If you really wanted it to be.
Larae Schraeder [:But I think the enforceability is really what most people are seeking. And by putting it on paper, memorializing it, and then especially by being able to say, this person signed. Right. In the presence of a notary. Right. And that really was their signature, they're not going to come back later and claim that's not my signature. Right? Well, no. Somebody saw your driver's license when you signed.
Larae Schraeder [:And so, like, that, again, helps the enforceability. And I think that depending on your interest in having it actually enforced, that would increase the level of precaution that you would take in A, discussing it, B, drafting it, and C, formalizing it.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. Well, it really goes back to how Brett started this. You're assuming that somebody's walking into a marriage, that there's a level of trust and love in that relationship. But we're people. Things change.
Larae Schraeder [:Things change over time. Yeah, that's right.
Carol Ventresca [:And attitudes and beliefs and feelings change.
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah. And actually, post nuptial agreements also now exist. Speaking of things changing, Ohio was one of the very last states to approve a postnuptial agreement. We changed the law in 2023 after several years, and there were some very active members of a committee on the Ohio State Bar association, and they felt that prenups should be able to be amended after marriage. And after marriage. Right. In Ohio, we did not have a path forward for doing that. So you could make a prenup, but it's prenuptial, and once the nuptials have passed, then your ability to revisit that prenuptial was null and void.
Larae Schraeder [:In Ohio, could two parties agree to do something differently 10 years into their marriage when someone's business took off or someone inherited a bunch of money that they weren't expecting? Sure. But again, it goes back to can we enforce it if things were really to change? And I want to say more, too, about even what a prenuptial is. I think people think of prenuptial as Just planning for divorce. But all marriages end in one of two ways, divorce or death. And so where I find that some agreements fall short is in planning for the second scenario, whichever it is. So it's not uncommon, from what I've seen in practice, for someone who handles divorce full time to write a prenup or a postnup that is full of scenarios for what happens when people separate or formally divorce and they completely miss the boat. On how 50% of marriages end, which is the. If I die.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. And leave everything to you so that you, as my spouse, are cared for through the rest of my life, are you going to forget about my kids from the first marriage? Are you going to include them in your will? Right. Are we going to make an agreement on how you'll handle any assets of mine that are left in your hands when you die? And so I think that ability to plan for death, as well as divorce is equally important. So I also find that when an estate planning attorney writes a prenup, they only focus on the test scenario. And I think a good prenup would take into account both, because it really should contemplate what you want to happen when the marriage ends, regardless of how it ends.
Carol Ventresca [:Right. So it's not really just that financial stability. There's really a lot more issues that are involved in prenuptials, guardianship of children, along that line.
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah. But I really think, too, a lot of things do revolve around the finances. So my expectation that you'll continue to carry life insurance for these children. Right. Long after we are separated, for, you know, the rest of your lifetime, you're gonna promise to have insurance. Right. That you own a life insurance policy and that you're gonna name our kids as the beneficiaries. Right.
Larae Schraeder [:You can't leave everything to your new wife, Bambi. Right. Or whatever it is, there's gonna be at least something there for the kids when you die. I think I struck a chord with.
Brett Johnson [:Him on that one, Bambi. Okay, well.
Larae Schraeder [:And the counterpart is Biff the Pool Boy. Right. Like I kind of joke about him.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. It always seems to be older guy, younger, but it's not always. Not always.
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah. But it's not always about financial stability for the spouse or ex spouse. Right. Or the remaining. It's really sometimes about looking out for the children who very well might be 50 years old at the time that something comes to play. We have had several clients in their 70s in the process of divorce. It is a growing segment of the population. And so I don't Think that regardless of when you marry, you never know what stage in life you will be when.
Larae Schraeder [:When the marriage is ending, especially divorce or death.
Carol Ventresca [:Right? Right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. So it sounds like a prenup should be an automatic step in preparing for marriage, especially the discussion, the discussion of the financial pieces and. And who will take care of what, that sort of thing, protecting each individual. Are there reasons not to have a prenup? I mean, are there? And how are you protected if you've created a prenup but your partner wasn't transparent? Maybe hiding assets and. Or debts or maybe that cannot exist in the prenup scenario. It's just everything's on the table.
Larae Schraeder [:The prenup governs the assets that were part of the full disclosure. And what you would expect is that any asset not fully disclosed or debt. Right. Cannot be treated in the same way as those assets. So there's usually a penalty of sorts to say, like, if there's something I'm really hiding and somebody finds out about it. Right. Like, you know, you're maybe entitled to forfeit a couple times the value of that asset that you didn't disclose because you weren't able to fairly negotiate. And so I think that it does happen sometimes.
Larae Schraeder [:It's not with nefarious intentions that, oh, I forgot that my great aunt so. And so left me a pile of savings bonds when I was seven. Right. But if assets are left out, right. And they're not listed on the asset schedule for full disclosure, then they can't, you know, be subject to that agreement in the same way. And there should be a provision to say what to do about assets that aren't fully disclosed because you. You can dispute those assets, they are no longer treated as separate property. You could argue that they should be considered a marital asset and that you would have rights to them in the case of a divorce.
Brett Johnson [:I could see a debt sneaking in, especially in a second or third marriage where the spouse, the ex spouse, may.
Larae Schraeder [:Have.
Brett Johnson [:Nefariously put your name on it on a credit card or something like that, and you didn't know about it. You had no clue. You hear that? Not a lot. But you hear of those scenarios like how did my name get on that? Or a student loan, possibly, that you completely. Again, I'm sure the prenup is a bank exploratory of everything, but there could be things out there that just like you didn't even realize your name was.
Larae Schraeder [:On it, like unclaimed funds. I don't know if I would have thought to go to unclaimed Funds before filing a prenup.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Larae Schraeder [:Things go missing.
Brett Johnson [:Debt and credit, part of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Interesting. Okay, so a prenup predominantly explains financial resources and liabilities of each person. But are some of the assets that should be considered, does it matter what size they are? We've talked a little bit about what's hanging out there that you may not know about. But for instance, an individual's business, which is small now, could get bigger or even vice versa. Are there things that should not be included specifically and can that happen?
Larae Schraeder [:You can absolutely say this asset is off limits. Right. You mean treated a separate property. Absolutely. And not divided. And I think that people would say, you know, the inheritance that I have already received or the inheritance that I anticipate. Right. You might even come up with a provision around something that's not even in your hands yet to say, if I were to inherit something.
Larae Schraeder [:But when you mentioned assets of changing value, I think of oil and gas rights. Right. You think about before Ohio really had a boom, Right. There were people that inherited farmland in eastern Ohio. They wouldn't have thought about the value of those assets. And so they might not have said, hey, if I end up with a piece of my grandparents farm, how to treat those assets?
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Or even selling farmland with the intel development. I mean, that was a boom too, to a certain degree of those selling. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.
Larae Schraeder [:So, yeah, you absolutely might have something that you feel like it's nothing. I also think about royalties. Right. The book that you're still writing, the manuscript that all of a sudden becomes a bestseller, or any other form of music rights or things like that that are going to be really hard to value or have a value just so uncertain that you wouldn't even think to include them as a property that you would want to kind of reserve and not make community property to be divided potentially in the end of a marriage?
Carol Ventresca [:Well, I guess the questions are really coming from this notion of a prenup is not everything or nothing. If you work with an individual legal counsel who is experienced in this area, you're gonna see there's a lot of nuance in it.
Larae Schraeder [:Yes.
Brett Johnson [:All right, so legal documents are created in various forms. Does a. Does prenup take precedent over other legal agreements like divorce decrees, guardianship of children, or beneficiaries designated on accounts? I mean, has a law shaped the definition of prenup? I guess you kind of said it did because of the postnup, but it kind of.
Larae Schraeder [:So a prenup will be honored, and that's what I was talking about with the enforceability. So, yes, if you get ready to be divorced and you've already said, like, this asset is one that I'll agree to divide, 50%, you know, 50% of this will be considered yours or 0% or 10% or whatever it is should definitely be input to those proceedings. And unless there's a reason to not honor that prenup, then, yeah, those assets are determined by that agreement.
Brett Johnson [:Okay, so prenup is almost. I don't want to call it an asset, but it is a document that needs to be respected. Yes, because it's almost a will to a certain degree, isn't it?
Larae Schraeder [:It can very much serve as one. Especially because I was saying that 50% of marriages end in death. So you're basically saying, this is how I want things to be divided when our marriage ends, whether it's because of me dying or not. So one of the questions I ask as an estate planner, have you entered into a prenuptial agreement or a postnuptial agreement? Because I need to know if you've promised to leave. Right. Your. Your spouse's children from their prior relationship, you know, a certain amount of money upon your death. And that needs to be something that we honor in that will.
Larae Schraeder [:So that's one of the ways in which, you know, it is connection to estate planning.
Carol Ventresca [:You know, one of the things that I would often hear were from colleagues who were, when working in a government system, having a state pension and going through a divorce. That was a huge issue of who's going to take Social Security, who's going to take my pension, you know, that kind of thing. And so there were a lot of bits and pieces. Again, number one, you don't know that you're going to work long enough in an entity to have that level of a pension. And given what we know of Social Security today, what's more stable, if anything, is stable, I guess. But often individuals who were in pension systems did everything they could to make sure the pension stayed with them. This is in a divorce. But if they didn't have a prenup, that's part of the negotiation.
Carol Ventresca [:If.
Larae Schraeder [:If they had a prenup, it's on the table. Yeah.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah.
Larae Schraeder [:Otherwise, it may not be. That's right. We talked a little bit about some of the people that sign and what some of the motivations are, and definitely subsequent marriages are a time when people should consider it, as well as people who have assets or debts they want to be protective of. But I did have one family that came to Me, who told me that, yes, in fact, I have signed a prenup before. And I said, please tell me more. What do we need to say in your will about this prenuptial agreement? What promises have you made? And she said, well, basically after a hiatus with my boyfriend, his parents weren't very happy we were back together and the parents basically required them to sign a prenup. And she said, I'm absolutely willing to do so to help prove the loyalty and the intention. And sometimes it can be a protective measure, a preemptive measure for a new stepmom to say, look, I don't want to take things away from you as children.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. Like, I want you to see me as not here in a money grubbing sort of a role. And I'm willing to like again, formalize this promise to you that I'm not here just for your dad's money. And so what's really funny is my client said that her prenup pretty much said if we ever divorce, we'll smile. That's what they were going to do. They agreed to smile. And so we satisfied the parents. Again, it wasn't me.
Larae Schraeder [:I didn't help prepare this agreement, but I was going to take it into account with her will. But then I quickly learned there was nothing to take into account when drafting her last will and testament because. Yeah, but they. So again, it all gets down into the details. So did you sign a prenup? Yeah. Oh, yeah, we did. Okay. Did you actually talk about assets and debts be handled? Maybe, maybe not.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. It's just an agreement. It's a contract. And you can say anything you need or want it to say.
Carol Ventresca [:And it's really at the point you're doing it. You're sort of in this lala land of roses and champagne and not really thinking long term. And if the person who's writing it for you isn't experienced, it could be a problem.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. And I will say that this couple was happily married until he passed away. Yeah. So it definitely smiles. We're going to smile.
Brett Johnson [:That is.
Larae Schraeder [:So we agree to smile.
Carol Ventresca [:To smile, which is. Could be big.
Larae Schraeder [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:Well, that's a good point. That's a good point.
Larae Schraeder [:We're just going to smile and walk away. But it never happened.
Carol Ventresca [:So in all of the iterations that could be done within, in a prenup, does it really protect kids? I mean, I know that's the intent. Or is it only going to financially kind of protect the kids?
Larae Schraeder [:I mean, there's gotta be enough to protect them. So again, it's never, ever going to guarantee anyone financial stability. Right.
Carol Ventresca [:If there's no so that's a difference too. Protecting them financially and guaranteeing financial stability are two very different things.
Larae Schraeder [:That's right, because it just says, hey, you're going to promise to leave money to our kids or you're going to promise to leave them life insurance or do something. It doesn't promise that they can't blow it. Right. It might say leave it in the form of a trust or it might have some other requirements or strings attached. But again, that doesn't say that it's a $2,000 life insurance policy or $2,000,000 insurance policy. Right. So that's what I'm saying. Like, you can't manufacture assets.
Larae Schraeder [:It's only going to be dealing with whatever that you have and however many percentage, you know, percentages you wanted to leave each of your kids or what, whatever it is. So it doesn't, I think it's not a guarantee of stability. Just having a prenup.
Carol Ventresca [:You know, this kind of just hit me with children because of situations that I know where a child has. Is either ill or a developmentally delayed or physically ill or can a prenup cover that, too? And who thinks of that before you're married and had your kids, if they've already. If the child was from a previous marriage? That's a known situation. But.
Larae Schraeder [:Yes, like I said, you can contemplate anything. And I think that's probably the most intimidating part. Or like, what are the provisions that we should include? And I think that working with a professional can really help you think through some of those scenarios that otherwise may not have ever crossed your mind. In the traditional happy path of we have cars, we have houses, we have bank accounts, and these are going to be the typical needs. Right. And something like that. When you have a special needs child, it's not a typical set of needs and you may want to, you know, require certain things of them. And so, yeah, I think a prenup could also contemplate if a family were considering freezing embryos or any sort of fertility treatments.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. That would create property. You know, depending on the state that you are in, those embryos are treated as personal property or treated as. Right. Other other forms of matter that are governed differently under the law. And so you can definitely include how you would want those to be treated, even if they don't exist yet.
Brett Johnson [:Wow, interesting. Okay, so this is rife with emotion, obviously, and you should try to get the emotion out of it. But it's going to be very hard to do. How do you recommend a couple approach this topic? I mean they both or agree. Yeah, I'm bringing some stuff. You're bringing some stuff. Or maybe we should just explore because it sounds like a good protection hearing. Everything we've talked about so far, they've heard this episode going.
Brett Johnson [:That's not a bad idea. Maybe we should go this trip. We should do this. So what steps should they take to find a qualified legal counsel to assist them through the process and how to approach it?
Larae Schraeder [:The first thing everyone should know is that they cannot use the same counsel. One person has an inherent conflict of interest with another when developing something like this document, prenup or postnup, anti nuptial. And so one person could have an attorney and one person not represented at all. Right. They could have one party where their attorney is the one drafting it and everything. But if they are both to be represented, they need to have their own independent attorney to go back and forth with the full disclosure and the drafts and land because again, there's so many things that you would want to include and how it would be handled.
Brett Johnson [:So the agreement is null and void unless they're represented by two attorneys.
Larae Schraeder [:Basically they should. A conflict of interest could destroy it back to the enforceability. So like you might have an agreement, but if you can't enforce it, then it might as well be of no value. That's right.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Okay.
Larae Schraeder [:One other thing we didn't touch on, but again, my work in an elder law, I will say it is not uncommon for people to think about long term care costs as something that they wanted to specifically contemplate in the agreement. And Medicaid doesn't care if you've promised, you know, your spouse that you won't touch their assets for your care. That's nice. But what are you doing? You're applying for long term care. You're not getting a divorce. So saying that these assets are mine and those assets are yours doesn't get you very far. It will not avoid for any purposes of long term care planning a spend down if Medicaid is involved. Now if you're just simply dividing the pot and everyone is private paying and there's enough to go around and no one ever runs out of money, that's great.
Larae Schraeder [:But I did just want to say like you can't enter into agreement when someone gets a terrible diagnosis to say we're not going to let mom spend any of her money dealing with sickle dad and, and dad still okay enough to Enter into such an agreement. Like, that's, that's not always going to hold up. Like I said, especially if you're going to say, dad's broke, Mom's got everything. You know, dad agreed to it.
Carol Ventresca [:If somebody has a, say, a piece of property, a house or whatever in their name at the time of marriage, never became part of the spouse's asset, prenup said it's theirs, does Medicaid pop in?
Larae Schraeder [:Yes.
Carol Ventresca [:Wow.
Larae Schraeder [:If it's yours or mine or ours, it's on the table when it comes to Medicaid calculations and net worth, because we feel like it should be, you know, available for care. So, yeah, that is. That is the one thing I wanted to say. Like these promises. Right. Hold up in certain circumstances, and in some they don't. But because again, you're contemplating death or marriage, you're not contemplating, if so and so needs care and Medicaid comes into play, then yeah, we'll just simply let mom keep all of the money and let dad have absolutely nothing and expect the taxpayers to pay for his bill. Like, that's not okay.
Larae Schraeder [:That's against our public policy.
Carol Ventresca [:Interesting. Yeah. You know, everybody looks at that whole notion of the five year look back, but there's a whole lot of stuff they really need to check into.
Larae Schraeder [:That's right. So back to your question, Brett. They need counsel. They need their own counsel. And that's really the way to. To do it.
Carol Ventresca [:So they've got a prenup. Everything went fine. They're married. Been married for 10, 20, 30 years. They could do a post nup if they wanted to.
Larae Schraeder [:If they had gone ahead and gotten married.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah, right. But maybe they just don't want anything. Can, can you actually get rid of a prenup?
Larae Schraeder [:You can. Now that the law changed in 2023, you can change the terms of a prenuptial agreement, including deciding to dissolve it. Right.
Carol Ventresca [:Okay.
Larae Schraeder [:So if you said this is no longer applicable, that's actually.
Carol Ventresca [:The postnup is actually getting rid of the prenup.
Larae Schraeder [:There you go. That's right. And you can amend them where circumstances have changed, and you can create those agreements where they're now needed because someone's net worth has changed, because someone's situation has changed because someone has cheated and you're willing to let them back in. But like one more time, right? One more time. And this is how we're going to dissolve the assets, like you are promising. But, you know, up until recently, Ohio just felt that we should not hang over someone's head the privilege of staying married and, like, I will leave you if you don't sign this and give up your rights to something. And so we are finally among, you know, the 48 or so other states that. That believe in allowing people to alter.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. Their financial position to community property or personal property after the nuptials.
Carol Ventresca [:Okay. All right.
Brett Johnson [:So one more question about post nuptial. So it may be wrapped in a couple of questions here. This is intriguing because of how it just tears the. You rip the paper apart, basically, the prenup. So the post nuptial, can that be changed multiple times, just like a working document, basically.
Larae Schraeder [:Think about it like your last will and testament. It's the last one until it's replaced, revoked, and replaced with a new one. So. Yeah. And then whenever the music stops, that's the one that's on the table.
Brett Johnson [:That's one does. Okay, good. Okay. Okay.
Larae Schraeder [:Now, I think the history of them might matter, Right. If you think that there's some coercion or you were trying to prove something else, but otherwise it's a new agreement. Right. Anytime you enter into an agreement to have someone, you know, clean and service your furnace. Right. The most recent one that's in force is really the one that matters.
Brett Johnson [:Right. And then the post, is it two separate attorneys as well?
Larae Schraeder [:Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Okay. Even though you're married.
Larae Schraeder [:Absolutely.
Brett Johnson [:Wow. Wow. Okay. It just seems like a. It sounds like a good idea. It does. Depending on your scenario. But, boy, that separate attorney thing, that can make it tough.
Larae Schraeder [:It's an adversarial document. Right. There are two parties, and their interests may not always align. Right. Because they're looking to protect and preserve. But it's also a chance to come together to say, like, this is what we do agree upon. Right. And so that is the blending of the wills, their intentions.
Larae Schraeder [:This is what will happen if you.
Carol Ventresca [:See a bill on Angie's desk for a lawyer.
Larae Schraeder [:Well.
Brett Johnson [:This came to our attention with friends of ours who are a little bit younger than we are, had never been married. So it was their first marriage, but they brought a lot to the table from both of their sides. Maybe some debt, but mostly assets. And they both willingly walked into it and said, yeah, this makes sense. Yeah, we should. I mean, just. They walked into it very logically. And, you know, that she wanted to protect the house that she was in because she had bought it.
Brett Johnson [:And he brought a lot of things with him as well, too. And it was just. It was kind of eye opening how orderly they went into it. But it was really that financial. This is Way it stands kind of feel to it. And it was interesting. And I guess that's what, you know, I brought it up for us to talk about because it's like it just is. So it's used so differently for every.
Brett Johnson [:An odd infinitum scenario.
Carol Ventresca [:At my generation, people who were rich did prenups. The rest of us, we didn't have enough to worry about. So, you know, that didn't happen. But it's very different today. I mean, the assets are very different. What they were as I was growing up.
Larae Schraeder [:And I think it's more common and it's more spoken about. It's true, a little less taboo. And I agree with you, it was for an elite and it was rare. But I think more and more people are considering it commonplace.
Carol Ventresca [:I think too, at that point in time, it was a lot of it was because it was family money. Family business was generational issues that had to be taken care of before someone could get married. And so that's okay, you know, that's.
Larae Schraeder [:Yep. I would also like to add that contracts on how to handle assets or debts are not just exclusively for those who have nuptials pre or post. So you could have a domestic partner and you guys could write a contract and agree on how you're going to do things, right? You are going to pay all the utilities and I'm going to pay all the groceries. So think of a prenup or a postnup as an agreement. It's a contract. And so it is lawful for two parties, private parties of any kind, to, you know, agree upon most anything. Almost any kind of contract is lawful. I'm going to joke and say, right, not a contract to kill somebody, but almost any other kind of lawful contract.
Larae Schraeder [:Right. Can be enforced. So business partners, business divorces are among.
Brett Johnson [:The worst because when you walk into business with somebody, you never think of it ending ever. Well, so it comes into my world as a podcast consultant. There are a lot of podcasters that come together. They do not sign any agreement of how they'll dissolve. But then all of a sudden their podcast may be making some money or there's money involved and there's some bills and they just say, we're done, I can't do this anymore. And all of a sudden it's like we have bills to pay with this venture we came together and that's small scale kind of stuff. So I can imagine a business or an entrepreneur combining with another entrepreneur and.
Larae Schraeder [:The rights to names or the territory or the client list. So I was going to just say dom partnership, but also business. I really think there are multiple situations in which having counsel to help you think through the dissolution of whatever it is, the dissolving of whatever it is may really make sense. So I, again, have not lived through a business divorce or a marital divorce or any other kind, but I've witnessed plenty enough to say I certainly would rather go into it armed with some forethought.
Carol Ventresca [:Yeah, wonderful. Okay. You know, it is amazing. Regardless of the topic, we do talk a lot and touch on so many bits and pieces of the issue. Thank you again for coming to see us. Any last words of wisdom to our audience?
Larae Schraeder [:Just an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of.
Carol Ventresca [:Really.
Larae Schraeder [:Yeah. And that's not a Schrader Locke original, but that Maxim holds true.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, thank you for doing all the research you did on this, too, because I've seen some looks on Carol's face going, oh, oh, never thought about that. So that's what we get out of this podcast. If nothing else, we do it for ourselves and we hope the listeners get the same kind of thing. So many thanks to our expert guest Larae Schrader from Schrader Law for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us and you're going to find the contact information and resources we discussed in the podcast Show Notes and on our website@lookingforwardourway.com and we are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this or any of our other podcast episodes.
