I sit down with Jeni to unpack a raw, deeply resonant, and incredibly insightful fertility journey. Jeni shares her evolution from viewing egg freezing as a simple piece of "mental insurance" at age 35 to navigating a grueling five-year path spanning five different fertility clinics. She describes the mental and physical toll of constant cycle adjustments, the burden of clinic communication woes, and the unique challenges of deciding when to finally stop using your own genetic material.

We dive deep into how a direct conversation with her mother served as a turning point, prompting her to shift paths and explore embryo donation. Jeni shares her practical experiences onboarding with major matching organizations like Embryo Connections and Empower with Moxie, explaining how she navigated potential match criteria and discovered what genuinely mattered to her.

Throughout it all, Jeni models a beautiful mindset shift: learning to release a tight grip on expectations, setting clear intuitive boundaries of "this and no further," and choosing to hold her solo parenting journey as lightly as possible.

In this episode, we discuss:

• The emotional reality of egg freezing at 35 and how expectations can shift over time.
• Advocating for yourself across 5 different clinics and recognizing when a provider is not the right fit.
• Processing the decision to stop using your own eggs.
• The step-by-step onboarding process, cost realities, and managing weekly databases through agencies like Embryo Connections and Empower with Moxie.
• Shifting perspective from sperm donor filters to full embryo genetics, adjusting to physical match considerations, and managing communication alignment with donor families.
• Moving past the urge to strangle every choice.

Connect with Katie:

• Website:singlegreatestchoice.com
• Instagram:@single_greatest_choice

👩‍👧‍👦 The Single Greatest Choice is the single mother by choice support you’ve been craving for every stage of your journey. You can find 1:1 Coaching for every stage of solo motherhood by choice, Community Groups for thinkers, triers, and pregnant SMBCs, The SGC Village Membership Community, Retreats for early stage SMBCs and Family Trips for moms & kids.

💌 Become part of the SGC community and stay up to date by joining our newsletter. You can sign up >>here<< at the bottom of the page.

✍️ Reach out to Katie over at [email protected].

ℹ️ Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed by podcast guests are their own and do not necessarily reflect those of The Single Greatest Choice or its host, Katie Bryan. This podcast is intended for informational and educational purposes only and should not be considered medical, legal, mental health, or professional advice. Every fertility, donor conception, and parenting journey is unique, and listeners are encouraged to use discernment and consult appropriate professionals regarding their individual circumstances. By listening, you acknowledge responsibility for your own decisions, interpretations, and actions.

You know? Like, before I actually tried with the first embryo, um, I met somebody. So that's always interesting how that works, and we've been together since the beginning of the year Welcome to the Single Greatest Choice podcast, where single women find support, empowerment, information, and inspiration around the topics of singleness, fertility, motherhood, and mindset.

Whether you're just starting to question what to do about your finite fertility, or whether you're ready to make the leap into solo motherhood by choice, I hope these conversations will help you to feel more supported and confident along the way. Because whatever you decide to do with these years could be the single greatest choice you'll ever make, and you don't have to make it alone.

Hey, friends, and welcome back to the Single Greatest Choice podcast. I am so glad you're here, and I hope that you are having a fantastic summer. I know I am. If you are a regular listener, you know that I've recently made the leap into full self-employment. And if you'd asked me, I would have guessed that I would take those fresh 20 hours that I just added to each week and dive straight into all of the big projects that I've been waiting to have the time to pursue in my business.

And I made a choice a few weeks ago, right kind of as I made this transition, to stop trying to do it all and to just enjoy July and let it be summer. So Miles and I have been logging some serious pool time, and he is so proud of how far he has come with his swimming in the last few months. And I've been soaking up these days in a way that just has been really, really sweet.

We talk about fertility struggles, the path to embryo donation, what it looks like to be in the messy middle of a decision that just keeps evolving. Because here's what Jenny's story makes really clear: the rest of our life doesn't pause while we're figuring out our paths to motherhood. Jenny's been on this journey for a while.

So let's get into it Jenny, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. Yeah, I'm excited to catch up with you. You and I connected, um, much earlier in your solo mom story through a community group, and, um, I've heard little bits and pieces of what's gone on in your life since, but I'm excited to get the full, the full story.

Okay, cool. I've always just thought, like, you know, my story isn't anything groundbreaking, but I, I think it's so nice for people to hear other people's stories in general because there's always bits and pieces that I feel like are only relatable to certain, certain people or certain kinds of people, and sometimes just hearing yourself reflected is super helpful.

My mom is one of many children. My mom's side of the family is enormous. Like, I think I just- Mm-hmm ... assumed that I would be fine, and went in and quickly found out that was not the case. So I froze my eggs twice, once when I was 35, once when I was 36, and in those two tries I only was able to get 10, um, eggs frozen.

in their arms- Mm-hmm ... because it made dating so much harder. Is that what kind of spurred you? Like, I'm curious how you found yourself in the ferl- fertility clinic in the first place. Like, was it that sense that maybe you weren't gonna meet someone in LA? Yeah. Yeah. It was that I-- or I was maybe not that exactly yet, but more like, wow, I'm not- Mm-hmm

meeting anyone and I don't wanna have this be hanging over my head. I'd rather just... There-- I really thought I was gonna have-- I thought it was gonna be a true piece of insurance, wh-which would've been something more like 20- Right, right ... or so eggs. Um, but it was not nothing, and, um, and I felt good that I had done something.

I remember being in Lake Tahoe with my friend Jenny. So actually, yeah, a lot of time, a couple years went by, and then I was with my, my friend Jenny in Lake Tahoe, and she just basically said, you know... I, I was gonna give it like six months, and she was like, "Why?" She's like, "You've thought about this so much.

I was leaving the other ones frozen in Los Angeles. I was still wanting those as, like, an insurance thing. And it was a lot of, in those couple years, doctor woes. Like, I just wasn't experiencing-- it, it wasn't, it wasn't a fun experience at all. It was, um, between the nurse stuff, communication issues, doctor stuff.

We had, um, I had one doctor who just couldn't be positive with me. Like, and I knew someone who used him who got pregnant almost right away, and he would say things to her like, "Oh, we're gonna get you your take-home baby." And she's saying this to me, and I'm like, "Who is that? That is not my doctor." And I remember having-- I scheduled an appointment with him, and I'm like: Listen.

And he was like: So I might not be the right doctor for you. I guess I'm just really afraid of getting your hopes up. And I was like: Okay, you know, I think it's not the right fit. So then I left him, and I was sold a bill of goods by another doctor at another clinic who I was so excited about. And let me tell you, this guy was awful.

In every way you can be awful, he was awful. I, I didn't like anything, honestly, anything about that experience, the clinic, the doctor, the nurse staff, all that. Then I went back to the other clinic at a, to a different doctor who is known as, like, the LGBTQ, like, she's gonna get you pregnant woman who doesn't-- And at that-- And I, and she didn't really have a, um, bedside manner to speak of, but at that point I kind of cared less about that and more about results.

So at this point, it's been what, like five years, right, since your ish-- since your first egg retrievals back in LA. Like, I'm trying to do the math. I'm like, this is four clinics and, like, at least three or four years, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It might be something like five years. Yeah. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. So I'm exhausted for you.

um, the autonomy. I love all these things, and it's really difficult to imagine that there'd be something amazing enough, right, to, like, counteract those things and have- Mm-hmm ... that be okay. And, um, and I think that there-- that, that this, this is a leap of faith. There is something amazing enough. But really, at the end of the day, like, I always think about my future self, of why I'm doing this.

So to go through all of this without this feeling of, like, urgency, of really wanting it right-- I mean, I had a feeling of really wanting it, but it wasn't this, like, need this right now sort of thing like a lot of people have. So you just have to constantly pick yourself up again and go, like- Mm-hmm ... just do this thing.

forgot everything. But either way, so I did put a big pause button on this right around the election And I tried really hard. I don't know, should I speak about politics? This is like a- You are welcome to speak about politics. Okay. Yeah. Um, so for me, I'm, I'm very liberal, and I am very politically oriented.

So I tried really dif- I, I tried really hard to get, um, Kamala elected and, you know, knocking on doors all over the state of Pennsylvania, all of this kind of stuff, like every volunteering thing that you could ever do, and I was pretty sure she was gonna win. And in my head, it was like, if she doesn't, if Trump wins, I think I'm not gonna do this thing.

Mm. I-- it was, felt very shaky to bring a child into the world I was imagining. Mm-hmm. And, and then around that time, I started dating somebody, and I started seeing this, this whole experience a little bit differently. You know, like you're like falling in love and you're seeing the world a little-- And then I'm like, "Do I really wanna do this thing alone?"

What are they for?" Sometimes I really feel that way. Um, but you know, I have many friends who are partners, who are wonderful partners- Yeah ... to their people, and I, but I knew my picker just wasn't picking those guys. Yeah. So it was very tough to imagine. And then the guy that I started dating, um, it was a bit of a, a ruse.

Like, he wasn't who he was showing me to be- Mm ... that he was. But I, I started to imagine, well, maybe I, I wanna do this with a partner instead, which was like a big flip. Mm-hmm. And was he open? Like had, did you have conversations about kids? Yeah, but we weren't dating for that long. So like, we did talk about this.

I knew, like, at that point, I wasn't going to try with my own eggs any longer. So it was sort of easy for me to sit on that pause button. And I think had I continued to do that, the decision just would've been made for me, which by my own inaction, and that's kinda not how I want- wanted this to go, right?

Because sometimes the biological possibility still remains, but they're just like burnt out on the trying and y- or- Mm-hmm ... mixed messages from different providers or things. So I'm just curious in, in your experience, like how did you make that decision or, or how did you know? And then- Mm ... how did you process that?

Like, what was that experience like for you? Yeah. I, I also, going back, I did actually switch to one more clinic, which was a- Oh my gosh ... which is a, a, a, um- Clinic number five. He, he's a, he's a, uh, Dr. Check's like a crazy person, but like in a good way. You've probably heard of him. He's the one who prescribes Adderall.

Uh, he's in Jersey, so there's all these people who come. It's for hormonal disorders. Okay. So like this is not- Gotcha ... just a regular fertili- fertility clinic. But I mean, this guy, he took it down now, but at the time, the guy has a Christmas tree year-round. He sits in a throne. The guy's out of his gourd.

I love that. He's so weird. He cites articles like you've ever read them. I mean, the guy's nuts. So I had tried, I think, two rounds with him. Um, they also have a really different mentality, right? So if I was only gonna have one egg to retrieve, one or two eggs to retrieve, at a d- at one of the other clinics, they absolutely would've made that an IUI cycle.

So you had them shipped to where you were on the East Coast? Yeah, I had them shipped. Um, so I think having been to a new kind of clinic and gone through a couple rounds with him and feeling so Comparatively hopeful there, and still having been let down a couple times. Uh, it, I think for everyone it's just a different calculus.

Mm-hmm. For me, it was, I was tired of feeling that way. It felt like it just wasn't going to work- Yeah ... um, the way I was doing it. And I was tired of all the shots. Yeah. And I was, I was also kind of, um... My brain, it, it, my friend Devin once told me that my brain is an engine, and, and she's right. So my brain was starting to shield myself from the disappointments, I think.

I, I'm, I'm done with at least doing it this way." There's a part of me that felt like a broken toy, which I really didn't like. You know, there's the womanhood aspect of it. You feel like, "Oh, my body's supposed to be able to do this." Not like this is what I was made for, but like a little bit. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And, and I hated having that feeling.

You know, we're-- as women, we're already mean to ourselves- Mm-hmm ... um, and our bodies and all of that kind of stuff. Mm-hmm. And it just didn't, it just felt unnecessary- Mm-hmm ... to continue feeling that way. So- Well, and I would imagine the, the, like, sunk cost of the amount of time and energy and money and hardship you'd put your body through, I mean, it is, like, it- it's such a mind fuck in the fertility world, where it just always feels like maybe the next cycle is around the corner.

And also just the timeline of, like, the day you get your period, that means the last cycle didn't work, is also the first day of your next cycle. So you, you have to be grieving and simultaneously, like, moving forward. Like, it is exhausting. I cannot imagine, for the amount of time and the number of clinics and the number of, like, different protocols and things, like, what was the rest of your life like at that time?

You know, like, even the jobby part of my job, I love that. I love the clients that I work with and whatnot. So there's enough to distract me from this- Mm-hmm ... thing. But I think I, I think my body and my brain were really taking a rest in a way that I almost knew I shouldn't be. Like, I needed to be more intentional than I was being.

So anything that was gonna tip me over the scales or, like, light a fire under me was sort of welcomed. But the only person who was gonna do that, apparently, was my mom. And, um, in April of 20- of last year, my mom just said something to me on a Monday morning, great timing, Mom, um- ... to, that I need to basically shit or get off the pot.

There's none of that. So it felt significant when she said that to me. And I, and it did, uh, it did something to me, and I started talking to my therapist a little bit, and I sort of begrudgingly committed to start looking into... I knew it would have to take a new form now than what I had already done, so that was its own heavy lift- Mm-hmm

that I didn't feel like doing. Uh-huh. And the form that it was gonna take was, um, embryo donation. And so I started looking into it a little bit. There's two agencies that I knew of, and what's the one? The one I use is called Embryo Connections, and then the other is Empower With Moxie. Mm-hmm. And Empower With Moxie is much more sort of boutiquey, so they have a lot less of a database.

I did onboarding with both, and I kept looking at both, at, at what both had to offer. Um, there's just far less with, with Moxie- Mm-hmm ... but I think they're both amazing. Yeah, I've heard great things about both, so if anybody's in that place, like it's, there's, there, I don't think there's a better option.

They're just different. They're just different- Yeah ... and I would totally say do both at the same time. And it's not like a, like a large, uh, financial lift to do both. I mean, I think it's like 200 bucks or something to just get signed up with them. So yeah, so you, you get on a list basically, and then each week you're sent, um, potential matches.

And it's funny because as you look through these kids' pictures, I mean, there's so many kids that are, like, towheads. It's so cute. They're so adorable. But they have, like, really blonde hair. Mm-hmm. And I have really dark hair. They might have dark hair when they get older. You just can't- Right ... and so it's so difficult to imagine that, like, it just feels like, well, that's the wrong one.

Right. You know, when, when you're looking. Well, and it's, it's different than choosing a sperm donor where you know, like, your DNA is gonna mix in and then it's sort of like a grab bag of, like, what rises to the top. It's very different when it's, like, the full genetics are coming, like, through this embryo, and epigenetics probably aren't gonna override something like eye or hair color in a way that's significant.

I think it's, it- there's a lot of similarities to, you know, of course I've done the donor selection process w- uh, choosing a sperm donor. But even just dating, like, I'm back on dating apps, like, haphazardly every once in a while. But, you know, when, when people put, um, apolitical, I'm like, "Well, that must be nice, like, that you're so privileged that you don't have to think about politics."

But, like, that's a deal breaker for me. Right. You know? So I- Yeah ... I do, I understand you want what you want, and you're allowed We don't have to justify the things that rise to the top. I've talked on the podcast before about how I judged myself so much for, um, sort of filtering by education, 'cause I kept telling myself education is a sign of privilege, not necessarily intelligence.

Yes. I mean, as you move through it, I mean, some people find that they want so many things that they just can't even find anyone that matches all of them, and then that's a, that's a filtration system that kind of works itself out as you're going through it. So for me, um, I, I kept, I... There were times I was shoehorning a yes into, you know, like I would see a donor and I would be like, "I, I, I guess," and I would-- But there was something that just didn't flow with me, and I remember talking to my, my, the woman that I, that I was working with at, at Embryo Connections, and I was like, "Don't judge me.

Like, these are the things that I feel weird about." You know? But at that point, you know, it had been, like, maybe five weeks, and I just wanted to find someone. It was starting to feel like, okay, well, I need to start, like, settling a little bit. Yeah. And she, and she was so helpful. She goes, "This isn't your yes."

So you sign up, and you kind of give them some information about what you're looking for, and then you, you're getting, like, a weekly email? Yeah, so you get a weekly email. Um, in the beginning you actually receive a, a, a fair amount. And then you, because you're basically, this is a terrible way to say it, but for time efficiency, you're getting, like, the discards.

You're getting the ones that no one really has said yes to. But in your head, you're just gonna continue getting this many every week. And then all of a sudden it dries up for a, a fair amount of time because you are, each week you're working your way up the list to, like, get the more sort of the, the newer or the more desirable candidates.

So now when, when you're being sent a potential embryo match, does that mean that, I don't know what the correct term is, but the family that is- Mm-hmm ... donating the embryo, are they also selecting you? Like, uh, do, do- Not yet. So at that, so when you, I'm not the only person who's receiving that same donor couple- Okay

or donor, I should say. It doesn't have to be a couple. I don't know how many people they s- they send to, but, or I c- I guess it can't be more than four or five, and then they take the ones who say yes to that donor. They send them, uh, all the people whose have said yes to them, and they have to- That makes more sense, 'cause they're, they're not as invested.

Yeah. So then they have to say yes, and I thought that part was gonna take a while for me too. I was thinking of this almost like adoption and the narrative, whether it's true or not, in my head is that I'm a single woman, therefore it would take longer. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Like someone, a donor couple or a donor would want there to be two parents.

Mm-hmm. But they did. They said yes, and we, and then, so that's the preliminary yes. You're not locked in yet at that point. Um- Okay, wait, wait, wait. Go back, 'cause you found the... So how did it feel? Like, tell us about the, when you saw the profile of the embryo that you said feel right. Oh, yeah. When I saw them, I was, I was really, I was really excited.

The other one looks less so like she could be my daughter. But this picture that they sent was so cute. It was like they were all, like, the one daughter was like mid in the air. They were all smiling, so sweet. Like, I just lo- that was a good feeling. All their answers about sort of who they are, what's important to them, all of that sort of matched.

They're in Texas, by the way. And so yeah, lots of people think that, uh, the donors come from the same place that you do, and they don't. They're all over the place. Mm-hmm. You also have to match, you have to match on a couple things, one of them being what level of communication do you want or at, if at all?

I mean, I knew I wanted some level of communication, so I wasn't even shown candidates that, that wanted to be anonymous. But we were very aligned, even on paper. Like, it was basically we want it to be what it wants to be. We don't wanna prescribe, okay, n- you know, this many times a, a month we're gonna talk to each other or anything like that.

It was very exciting 'cause it started to feel like things were moving forward. Mm-hmm. And I was so used to not having a feeling of excitement. I remember sitting at breakfast with my family. I was-- I thought I was just explaining that I, that, you know, this family chose me, um, back, and my brother was like, "You seem really excited."

And I'm like, "Oh, well, I mean, no, I'm not excited." Like, I don't do that anymore. And then my brother was like, "You sure seem like it." And I'm like, "What? Maybe I am excited." Like, it was this weird moment of like, I guess I'm excited. That's crazy. And so I, I kinda started going with that and started hearing myself and like, okay.

And we really liked each other. They asked the right questions, in my opinion. Like, you know, um, they, they asked about my job. They were like, "That's a lot. How do you expect to fit a child in, um, with your job the way it is?" I'm in the music business, so things are very busy and kind of chaotic, and there's a lot of travel.

And it was the right question to ask, and I told them, like, that has been something on my mind too, but, um, I'm just not willing to let anything come between this kid having my time and energy. Not to say-- I mean, my job will as well. Mm-hmm. But I've been doing this job for 20 years, so I, I think at this point, like, I, I can, you know, like- Yeah, restructure.

This This donor had, had some medical stuff going on in her own body, therefore she, when she was 31, made these embryos, and he was about the same age. And so that's like kind of jackpot, especially for me that was sort of used to just working with such, you know, older material- Mm-hmm. ... and whatnot. So that was exci- it just all felt like this is kinda cool, this is meant to be.

The way I looked at this whole thing is, okay, I've got three chances to make this thing happen, and that felt like enough to me. I feel like I've done a lot of therapy around accepting if this doesn't work. Um, I can't, I'm, you know, 42. I was 41 when I was doing, when, you know, at this part of the story that we're at.

I can't imagine going through three more rounds of trying and then wanting to re-up with another couple. Mm-hmm. I, I just, I think I'm good. Yeah. You know, I've done a lot of therapy around acceptance. You know, they say star- they say follow people who look like you. Not necessarily look, look like you- Mm-hmm

You know, like before I actually tried with the first embryo, um, I met somebody, so that's always interesting how that works. Um, and we've been together since the beginning of the year, which isn't, you know, so long, but for me it kinda is. Yeah. Like honestly, four-plus months, that's- Yeah, that's significant.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've only had one, uh, semi-long relationship. It was two and a half years, but that was so very long ago, and then I've had some like dumb situationships here and there, and maybe a couple boyfriends, but like nothing to speak of. Nothing, nothing mature- Mm-hmm, uh-huh ... honestly. No true partnerships, and I'm in one now.

Um, something like different stages of life, or we wouldn't have anything to connect on, or what- whatever it is, and it's just not true. He does have children. They are adolescent age. He's got two. Um, he's, he's not interested in having, um, new children, and he's known that from the get. I was thinking that I was gonna tell him at least after the first date or so, but I was on my solo trip in St.

And so for the most part, this has been our one, the one thing that's, that's the app that's running in the background- Yeah ... in our relationship. Yeah. We, we know this could potentially be an expiration date for us. Mm-hmm. Because, uh, depending on what happens. But he, he's not sure that if it works, he couldn't, he couldn't be there in some capacity.

And I tell him, I'm like, "The single mom by choice thing isn't just like, oh, it's because by circumstance I'm single, therefore I want to... This is like a choice." Yeah. "This is a, you, I m- I might not be single, but still be a single mom by choice." And he, very difficult I think for him to wrap his head around that- Yeah

But he's, he's five now. Like, we have a very established... Like, I know he's still a little kid, but he is also, like, not a little, little kid. Like, he's kind of a big little kid, right? And we've had- Right ... this whole five years of growing together i- uh, as, like, a mom and kid family. And someone can come in, but they will never be his dad.

Even if he calls them Dad, even if he adopts my son. Like- Yeah ... even if he's in that role, there will still be this significant amount of time where w- it was just us, right? And the intention. Even if someone had come in earlier, the intention of creating this family and this life without a partner, I just think it's, it's like a decoupling of relationship from motherhood.

Yeah. And the unlearning of that- Was, uh, I mean, it's long gone now. I, I, I absolutely have unlearned that. Uh, I think it's a beautiful thing to do this on your own intentionally, and it would be a beautiful thing to have a partner through it. Like, that's wonderful. But yeah, I've gotten very, not just comfortable, I've gotten excited about the fact of doing it alone.

The idea-- I mean, there's many people that I know that are doing it alone even though they have a partner, and at the end of the day, I've had people say to me like, "Oh God, like the way you're doing it is the easier way." Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And these- Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, it's also makes it easier that he doesn't really want that.

He lives in Jersey. I'm here in Philadelphia. I don't even really wanna cohabitate with a man, and I don't know if that'll ever change, no matter how I, in love I am with somebody. Mm-hmm. I also don't know if I wanna get married to somebody. Yeah. I want a committed relationship that lasts. I mean, that is something I'm looking for.

And to find a man that would potentially be okay with that is pretty crazy, and especially the single mom by choice and all of this stuff. And, uh, what's leading us is the connection that we have, and we're just going with it and talking about it all-- not all the time anymore. I w- at this point, we're, we talk about it when it's necessary to talk about.

It was 9:45. He got there exactly on time. He comes in, meets my mom for the first time. They take me back immediately. Oh my God. So here I have- And you just left him there with your mom. Yeah. Like my boyfriend who doesn't even really know his af- like does not know if he even wants this thing. I go back in the other room to try to get pregnant while he meets my mom for an hour by himself.

If it doesn't work, it's kinda like I've been there before. I sorta know it'll be like, 'Okay. I mean, it didn't work. Cool.' And if it does work, I have no idea how I'll feel." Mm-hmm. Then the phone call came, and I was a little bit struck by the disappointment level. It was difficult, more difficult than I thought, and it's probably just because I, I...

This is the most hope I've ever had in any of these- Mm-hmm ... experiences. So, and you know, I don't spend much time anymore with the version of me that really truly wants to have a kid. Um, I think I've put that version of me aside because it's kind of too painful. Mm. Um, so the version of myself that I spend time with is like, "Oh, if this is meant to be, it'll be, and, uh, may the right thing happen for my life."

My boyfriend came over that day and, and showed up as a, an amazing partner through it, and it was also really nice outside, and I take any nice day as like a... You know, I was, it was nice all weekend long. I was able to sort of focus on what's good, and there's a lot that's good. Mm-hmm. So in that moment, I decided gonna give myself a little time to sort of recuperate and then get going again, so maybe that'll be sometime in July or something like that.

But it's been like a wonderful, lovely process all around, even with the clinics that I couldn't stand and all of that kinda stuff. I just feel like you get to know yourself as a woman so much- Yeah ... through this whole thing. Yeah. When you are going through the process of it, to see what your body is capable of is a beautiful thing.

Um, just being a woman who has taken those risks, I think changes you for the better Regardless of how it ends. And maybe that's the point, right? Like, maybe- Yes ... um, you know, you can be sad if this doesn't work out in these next two tries that you don't have that life of, of motherhood, but it- but you still get the life where you went through it, right?

It's, it's a different life than the version of you who didn't try donor embryos, or who didn't try this whole thing to begin with. It still is so worthwhile. 100%. I mean, like, you can't argue with it if you've tried everything. Mm-hmm. And yes, I, I, I haven't gone the route of adopting a child. For some reason, I don't feel called to that.

And at that point, maybe I'll embrace that the universe is telling me my life will be fuller for some... You know? Like, I'll find a way. I'll volunteer more. I will go and see kids at hospitals. I'll do something like that to, like, fill up that part of myself. Mm-hmm. And really, it's just all in the way you look at it.

I, I mean, like, this stuff is sad, but there's a lot that you can have that, that is difficult to have when you have a, when you have a kid that... And the thing is, you don't know what you don't know. So I will never know the, the-- If it doesn't work for me- Yeah ... not that I'm putting that into the universe, but, like, I'll never truly understand what I'm missing, right?

It- it's not the way it worked out. It's never the way you think it's going to. Yeah. And, um, so I feel, I just feel sort of grounded in all of it right now. Yeah. Well, and I, I think that so much of what we hope for is based on stories that we make up. That, like- Mm ... we make up that life might be better if, if door A opens and door B doesn't.

And, and then oftentimes we go through the door that we wouldn't have chosen, and we're like, "Oh my God, I'm so glad I'm here." You know? Yeah. And I just-- I've had that happen again and again and again. And I think that way about solo motherhood. I say all the time, kind of jokingly but not really, I'm like What if I was sitting on my couch with some dude from Bumble?

you just never know. I had an experience, um, just this morning. Um, my son is starting kindergarten in the fall, and I have had school number one, like, the top choice in my head for years. And in our district, there's a lottery system, and we got on the wait list for that school, and we are number two on the wait list, so it's, it feels hopeful.

And we toured that school and it was like, "Okay. Yeah, this feels good." Um, today I went to what I thought was my very, very distant second choice, um, where we do have a spot. We did get a spot there. And immediately when I walked through the doors, I was like, "This is it. I want him there." Oh. It feels so good.

Oh. When all- Yeah ... I had to do was just, like, offer myself a different option, and, like, decide why it could also be beautiful. And now I'm like, one of the biggest highlights of feeling great about that decision is I'm no longer spinning about how- Yes ... school is gonna work. Like, I got to just release, like, the whole wait list situation.

The decision is, there's not one right or wrong then, in that case. You make the choice, and you make the choice that that was the right choice. Yes. And that's, that's how you move forward in that, is show yourself why that was the right- Yes ... choice. And it's all in how you, like, sort of go about things then.

So that's kind of what we ha- we have to do that over- Yes ... and over and over- Yes ... again in this. And I think being so realistic with ourselves, with, like, all the compassion in the world that we might have chosen differently if we'd had different options. But I think for a lot of women who are struggling with the solo mom choice or the life without children choice or whatever, it's like, part of why that choice is the best choice for you is 'cause it's available.

Like- Mm-hmm ... the other thing that you think you want so bad, not on the menu for you at the moment. Like, you can want it- Mm, yep ... with all your heart, but, like, I don't know if I'm gonna get to the top of that wait list. You don't know if these embryos are gonna work. We don't know if the partner's gonna show up in time.

that we can actually, like, take hold of. Yeah, and I think if you're gonna do something, I, uh, this, I mean, I would tell anybody, if you're gonna go through this experience, do your best to hold it lightly. I think when we strangle every decision, and, you know, it's that, it's that scene in Tommy Boy where Chris Farley's talking about making a sale, and he's got the...

Do you remember this? And he's got, like, the little roll in his hand, and he's like, "I'm gonna love it, and I'm gonna pet it. I'm gonna love it and pet it." And he's just, it's crumbling all over the place. Yes. And that's what we intend to do, but the roll in that, in that example is, like, ourselves. Like, we will tear ourselves- Yes

Um, it's true that I, I think at the end of the day I really wished it went the other way. Yeah. But it was so relieving to just feel like, "We'll see what happens." Yeah. Like, "We'll see what happens. This is exciting," like a reality show. "What's gonna happen?" Mm-hmm. You know? I, I, um, so if there's any way to strongar- strong-arm your brain into thinking that way, um, it was, it was massively helpful.

I knew that there's always another door to walk through, always another..." You know, and that is empowering. But it's equally- Yes ... empowering to say, "This and no further. Like, I will be at peace- Yes ... when I reach this point, and I know that, and it's my story, and it doesn't matter that like, yeah, I could explore adoption.

I could find another embryo donation. I could, you know, all of these things." But for you, just knowing and trusting that, that intuitive sense that like, "This is the point where I step off this path and allow myself to grieve what isn't and accept what is and be happy with, like-" And make, and make it a great life regardless.

Yes ... the life that you're losing and what may happen in your relationship, and the fact that, like, it's not your biology and it... There is, like, there's gonna be all new things to process, and I think just, like, trusting that it's all Like our soul's curriculum, it's all our opportunity to become more ourselves and, like, see ourselves more clearly.

And one of my favorite thoughts that sounds negative, but I really don't feel, it, it doesn't feel negative to me, is like, what if it just doesn't matter? Like, what if it just doesn't matter if we get into this school or that school? Or what if it just doesn't matter if I have kids or I don't have kids?

Or what if, like, what if it's just- I think that's probably more the reality than it mattering so much- Right ... to be honest. But we do, like you were saying, like, we hold so tightly to some of these things and, and, you know, I don't wanna discount the, the grief and, and the, the letdown of life not going the way, um, that we hope that it will, but it can all be true, right?

You know, my dad passed when I was 27. I was really hoping to, like see my dad and my mom, who's, who's still with us, but see both of my parents in my child. Um, and there was a, there was a point at which I almost had to make the decision that actually this is really cool. Like, yes, I won't see my mom or my dad necessarily in this kid, but I could.

Look at what my kid is doing that's just like me," I will have endless questions about why my kid is doing what they're doing, and that is just as fun and just as cool. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So a little bit of strong-arming that had to happen there. It did happen naturally. I didn't have to incentivize myself through it, but for anyone who c- that, that is a stopping point, I'm sure, for a lot of people.

Yeah. A- and I think, I, I, yeah, I, I hear you. I, I think by and large, um, a conversation I hear women who are considering solo motherhood who are in the, like, pre-parenting phase, a conversation I hear frequently is, um, what is it like to have a baby who's half a stranger's DNA? Like, that's a real concern. Or, you know, in this case, two, two strangers' DNAs, or two, you know, not, not necessarily strangers, but, like, people that are not your family, right?

And if I had a second kid with the exact same, like, DNA combination, they'd be an entirely different being, right? And so I think on, on that side of things, it's just so apparent that your kid is who they are, very much so. And, like, not that genetics don't play into things, but, like, y- y- you're, it's all unexpected.

It's the same decoupling that we talked about before with the decoupling, you know, having kids from having a partner. It's the same thing. We, we think of having kids means it's your DNA and, or, or it's fully you and someone that you love's DNA. That's kind of not the point- Mm-hmm ... of having a kid. I mean, it can be very important to some people, and I get that.

But it, I think at the end of the day, you're always so happy that you have the kid that you have. Yes. Yes. And I love the space to just allow them to become who they are. I, w- in my process- Yes ... I had, um, tested embryos. I had both male and female embryos, and I was able to, to select which embryo I wanted to transfer first.

So it was just all girls. And I thought, a boy is really gonna get to be himself, whereas a girl is gonna get compared to all the other girls- Mm ... in the family. And- Interesting ... I, like I was, I really liked the idea that this is like uncharted-- My mom even said, "I don't know what to do with a boy." And I was like, "Good.

I don't either. We'll find out. Like, he'll let us know." Yeah. I love that. Um, but I kind of- Yes ... love that about a, a, a donor embryo, just this idea that like there's so much space for them to just be who they are because you don't have all the preconceived expectations of, "Oh, you're just like your dad.

You're just like your mom. You're just..." You know, they're just themselves. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, is there anything that we haven't talked about that you wanted to, to share or to say or advice to give or anything? I don't know, relieving any of this fr- of the stigma of it because I, first of all, I think the stigma is disappearing as we speak anyway.

Yeah. Like, I, I don't, there's-- I, I don't think there's anything embarrassing about that. Yeah. It's really cool. Like, I-- like, be proud of that. You know? Like, that's, that's one thing, and the other thing is, like, um, if, if anyone listening is sort of unsure about this, a really good way to get to know if it's, if it, if it's the right thing for you or to just have a more organic...

Like, you can read books all day long, and that's, that's wonderful. I'm sure that there are some that are super helpful. But the biggest thing that you did for me, Katie, was loop me in with, um, the Single Mom by Choice group in, in Philadelphia where I live. That was-- I mean, you get to see it firsthand what it means.

Yeah. So, um, really big up to finding a community in your area, which I know you have resources for on, on Facebook or, or on your website. It can just be massively helpful, and you make really incredible new friends. Yeah. Yeah. I think, you know, that's, that's why I do the, the online community groups, and then there are local meetups in, in various cities, and I have a directory that helps kind of connect people to their local groups.

But I think it's, it's so true. One of the, um, anecdotes I, I like to share, um, when people feel lack of understanding or lack of support in their friend group, in their family, in their community, um, is just diluting it with, like, we don't have to change the, the, the thoughts of the people around us. We can let them have their own process.

And just let that kinda normalize it for you so that you don't feel like everyone doesn't understand or everyone thinks it's a terrible idea. Um, so I think you're exactly right. I'm so glad you live in an area where you have that, that local connection, and you-- There are some incredible women right around you, so I'm glad that you're connected with them.

And I think these days, most, most areas have- Yeah, a lot do ... at least one or two people. Yes. I mean, at least one or two people. Yeah. So, so thank you for that because honestly, you, your podcast, and then you looping me in so graciously with, uh, oh, by the way, the, the woman that you, um, looped me in with the other day, at the, like, last month or whatever, we are, like- simpatico.

So thank you. Oh, I'm so glad. That, that just, like, fills my bucket so much. It is the thing I love to do the most, is connect people with people and people with resources. So I'm really glad that it's been- Yeah, I think that's what you're meant to do ... been supportive for you. Yes, thank you so much. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story.

I know it's gonna be so helpful for so many women, and, um, I just really appreciate your time and your vulnerability and your openness to l- hold the, the both/and. The I really, really want this, and I'm gonna be okay no matter what. And, um, it's a very beautiful way of moving through it, and, um, I'm, I'm just, I'm so continually impressed by you and so many women who are, um, moving through this.

Thank you for joining me on The Single Greatest Choice podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a minute to leave a rating and review on Apple Podcasts. This will help more women to find our show. If you wanna learn more about me, this podcast, my coaching opportunities, and retreats, visit my website at singlegreatestchoice.com or find me on Instagram at single_greatest_choice.

Until next time, I'm sending you all my love and support as you go about making the choices that will create a life you love