How do you go about clearing the house, and personal belongings, when someone dies? In today's episode of MaryLayo Talks, I’m with guest, Dr Chris Davis, and we share our experiences of clearing the home following the passing of a loved one.   

Discussion includes:

• The emotional and practical challenges faced during the process of grieving and clearing the house.
• The role of friends and family.
• Navigating through the house clearing process - deciding what belongings to keep or part with when grieving.
• Tips and advice for those grieving and clearing the house.
• Bible scripture to support spiritual wellbeing.

Take a moment to delve into what may be 'beyond the smile' - listen in to the conversation.

Marylayo's spiritual wellbeing tip: Meditate on the bible scripture Psalm 34:18.

Connect with MaryLayo:

LinkedIn

Instagram

For help in dealing with mental health related matters, please seek specialist advice and support if needed.

1

MaryLayo: Welcome to Marylayo Talks, a podcast

that discusses mental health and spiritual

2

well being.

3

Before we jump in, there may be episodes that

4

are particularly sensitive for some listeners,

and if that applies, then I hope you'll be

5

able to join me whenever you feel ready and

able.

6

In this episode, I'm with Dr. Chris Davis, and

we're talking about clearing the home after

7

the passing of a loved one, which isn't easy

to navigate.

8

Let's listen into the conversation.

9

My experience when it comes to clearing the

10

house after someone's passed away, I would say

it boils down to two events, and they're to do

11

with the passing away of my parents.

12

So the first was my dad, and he passed away

13

quite a few years ago, quite a number of years

ago, actually.

14

And to be honest, I don't remember much of

that.

15

And I think it's because I wasn't part of the

process.

16

I was at uni at the time, come home weekends,

but I don't really remember being involved in

17

the process.

18

I would definitely say it was much different

19

when my mum passed away because I was kind of

staying with her at the time.

20

So I definitely had a lot more hands on

experience of being involved in that process

21

and very different experiences for those two

occasions.

22

What about yourself?

23

Chris: Yeah, I would agree, actually.

24

My dad passed away in 2019, by which point I'm

25

a grown man with a sort of young family of my

own.

26

Prior to that, I think I'm probably one of

those people who's fortunate, actually to have

27

not experienced loss much in my life.

28

And I think the last experience prior to that

29

was my grandma passing away when I was

30

And I think it was a similar experience to the

one that you've just alluded to.

31

When you're kind of probably because of age or

just because of circumstances, you're kind of

32

kept out of that.

33

Probably the more formal elements of that.

34

So it was a completely different experience

that came with completely different

35

challenges, I guess virtually 20 years, 20

years later.

36

MaryLayo: Sure. And you mentioned about

challenges.

37

So when your dad passed away and you were a

lot more involved in the process, I guess, how

38

did it happen for you?

And I guess you and your family?

39

Chris: So dad passed away really suddenly.

40

It was a heart attack, and my dad was in good

41

health to my mind.

42

I think there's always a bit of a naivety

43

about your own parents that you think they're

invincible.

44

And I always felt like that about my dad.

45

Despite the fact that he'd had various

46

different physical ailments, he'd had a hip

replacement, for example.

47

And I had seen him being kind of slightly

vulnerable and toddling around after he'd had

48

his hip replacement and things like that.

49

But I still saw him as being kind of

50

invincible.

51

To me, he was kind of a pretty healthy man in

52

his late 60s.

53

He was still working.

54

So it was really sudden.

55

And I think that's the context for a lot of

56

this conversation, that it was the suddenness.

57

I think that that poses a different challenge

58

to somebody who's lost a close relative or

friend over a period of time when you've

59

perhaps had chance to think about it a little

bit more.

60

I don't think that one is easier than the

other, but I think that it being something

61

that's really sudden just means that you just

are kind of faced with a reality really

62

suddenly.

63

And so I would say that with my dad, there was

64

a real sense of having to overcome the shock

before anything, before anything else.

65

But when I sort of said a moment ago that I

encountered this as an adult, while you are

66

dealing with those kind of emotions, like

shock and that immediate sense of grief, there

67

are just practical things straight away.

68

My dad was still working.

69

And so there's things like making sure that

his.

70

So my dad was self employed, making sure that

his clients and clients and people that he

71

worked with were made aware.

72

And that happened.

73

My dad died on a Friday night and we were

having to do those things on a Monday.

74

So it was really sudden in that sense.

75

MaryLayo: Yeah. Like what you've said, in a

way similar, but not similar when it came to

76

my mum.

77

Like my mom, she passed away just over five

78

years ago.

79

And even to me it was sudden.

80

But thinking back, it really wasn't because

all the signs were there.

81

And I think it's because, like you say about

parents and you think that maybe they're like

82

a hero, they're going to go on forever and

ever and ever.

83

That was literally how I saw my mum.

84

Because even though she was elderly, my mum

85

passed away.

86

She was over 80, but she was very strong,

87

quite independent.

88

And it was only the latter months that her

89

health declined.

90

And even though her health declined quite

91

significantly, I still didn't see it coming.

92

And maybe it's because it was hope, maybe it's

93

because I did not think about what then

happened.

94

I really didn't see it coming.

95

So in a way, it was sudden.

96

She was in hospital, similar reason that you

mentioned in terms of your dad, heart attack.

97

But when she was in hospital, she was getting

better.

98

And then all of a sudden, just when the

doctors were saying that oh, actually, she's

99

much better now.

100

She passed away for, I would say, a good few

101

weeks.

102

Hadn't even thought about clearing the house

103

or what to do with mum's stuff.

104

And the process first started in a very small

105

way when a family friend, very good family

friend, who was more like a daughter to my

106

mum, literally, when she came from abroad, she

came to stay with me and she said, okay, let's

107

get rid of this.

108

And this were a few little items, like in the

109

bathroom, to help my mum, because she was

quite vulnerable at the time.

110

Just before she passed away, I remember being

so appreciative that it came from her and that

111

she'd got the ball rolling because it didn't

even cross my mind.

112

I don't think it would have crossed my mind.

113

I saw those items.

114

They weren't any good to me, practically.

115

They weren't of any sentimental value.

116

They were just functional support AIDS.

117

But it just didn't cross my mind to dispose of

118

them, to think about getting rid of it.

119

And so I just remember, I don't think it was

120

relief, it was just more gratitude that there

was someone there that helped me to make that

121

decision.

122

And I think that kind of sowed the seed or

123

paved the way for me psychologically thinking

that, okay, at some point we're going to do

124

this and we're going to do this in a much

bigger magnitude.

125

Before then, it really didn't cross my mind.

126

Chris: And can I just ask with that?

So you've got siblings, right?

127

I know that you got sister.

128

MaryLayo: Yeah, I've got siblings, yeah.

129

Chris: So were you taking the lead on that

process to a certain extent?

130

And were you in tune with others about the

best way through that?

131

And I ask just because my sense is that

there's no blueprint for this at all and

132

you're suddenly in a position where you're

thinking, what is the right way to approach

133

it?

And as adults, when you've got multiple adults

134

in the equation, I think that you're each

going to have your own thoughts on that.

135

MaryLayo: Yeah. So it's a good question.

136

So I've got two sisters, I've got a sister in

137

law.

138

And I would say I don't think I took the lead,

139

but I do think I had a key voice in that

process because I was the one that was

140

resident in the house.

141

The others had, they've got their own

142

households, their own family, they weren't

staying there.

143

And therefore, obviously a lot was with me in

the sense of, when are we going to do this?

144

And I don't even remember that conversation,

to be fair.

145

I just think that.

146

I just remember there being one day and it was

147

more like a project when it wasn't just my

sisters, including my sister in law, it was,

148

like, a lot of members in the family.

149

So it was my siblings, it was my nieces, my

150

nephews, my cousins, my aunts.

151

There was a whole host of family members that

152

we'd arranged a day or dates, as it turns out,

to clear the house, and that took a number of

153

weeks, or at least a few weeks, before it was

all mainly sorted.

154

So in terms of coordination, I just know that

it was after the funeral and there was a date

155

that people were coming, and really we had to

keep doing that until the process was

156

finished, until all the stuff was done.

157

So it reminds me very much more of a project.

158

We all came together for a purpose.

159

All hands on deck.

160

There was snacks that were being brought just

to keep our energies up.

161

There was a lot of chatter in the house, a lot

of energy, a lot of gusto.

162

Yeah, that's my memory of that time.

163

I don't know if that answered your question,

164

actually.

165

Chris: No, it did.

166

And it's interesting, actually, that there's a

167

difference there.

168

My experience is one that I guess I've been

169

fortunate that I've been able, to a certain

extent, to approach.

170

I'm fortunate in that I've been able to

approach this from arm's length to some

171

extent.

172

So I don't live in the house and had been

173

living elsewhere for a considerable amount of

time by that point.

174

My mum was there.

175

I think my sister may have been at home at the

176

time time.

177

But what that meant was that, I guess I had

178

the ability to engage with that process and

disengage with it as and when, and it happened

179

over a longer period of time.

180

So my mum continued living in the house.

181

So this was our family home from.

182

I don't remember another house.

183

I moved to that house when I was maybe 18

months old, I think.

184

So I'd never known any other house at all.

185

My mum continued living in that house from

186

when my dad died in early 2019 until three,

four weeks ago.

187

And so that process was much more gradual.

188

I've got huge respect for my mum, actually, in

189

the way that she has tackled things over a

period of time.

190

I think she's always been very philosophical

and very realistic about the fact that, in her

191

case, she had essentially three decades worth

of stuff and extra as well, because I think

192

that when you move into a house, you bring a

load of stuff from a previous house.

193

And it goes on, and it goes on.

194

So there were huge amounts of stuff in that

195

house.

196

And I think that she was very realistic about

197

the fact that she would have to chip away at

it bit by bit.

198

Otherwise, I think it's just overwhelming to

take things on all at once.

199

Over the last four years, I'll smile as I say

this.

200

I've actually grown to quite enjoy the process

of my mum turning up.

201

Anytime that she visits, she will bring

something, and it's something that she's found

202

in the house, found in a cupboard, found here,

there, everywhere.

203

And she's thought that not necessarily that I

would want it or want to inherit that piece,

204

because we're talking about quite trivial

things here.

205

It's nothing of huge importance, but she would

bring them to me with a thought that I would

206

be best placed to do something with that.

207

For example, and I wouldn't say that my dad

208

was a hoarder by any stretch of the

imagination, but he had a lot of stuff.

209

I think there's probably a distinction between

being a collector of items and being a

210

hoarder.

211

I don't know that there was that much stuff,

212

but he was a real sports buff.

213

And I think anybody who is a bit of a sports

214

buff will inherit stuff or gradually

accumulate stuff over time.

215

So in my dad's case, it was lots of football

programs and speedway programs and football

216

programs, not just from professional clubs,

but even coming to watch me play football as a

217

teenager and a young adult.

218

So every time he'd come, he'd get a program.

219

Nothing valuable about them at all.

220

It might be a 20 p program or something, but

221

he would just gather them.

222

And there were bags and bags of them all over

223

the place.

224

I mean, the loft is a story in its own right,

225

but even kind of in drawers near my dad's bed

and under the bed, there were just bags and

226

bags of things.

227

So mum would gradually bring them over to me

228

and I guess was a bit of a proxy there, and I

would kind of go through them and do what I

229

felt was the best thing with them.

230

But over a period of years, really, it wasn't

231

just, here's everything that your dad ever

collected, go through it.

232

And so I actually think I grew.

233

I couldn't pinpoint exactly when the time was

234

because obviously I was just sad.

235

I forget how long, but I just remember getting

236

to a point where I started to take some

comfort in that process of looking at those

237

items, taking time and kind of enjoying that.

238

Enjoy is probably the wrong word, but enjoying

239

that time and then parting with them, whether

that was handing them on to some.

240

With football programs.

241

There were football programs from decades

242

before my dad was even born.

243

So it was clear that we're talking about kind

244

of things that he himself has gathered over

the years.

245

But I would go through, and if I saw a

football team that I knew, a friend of mine

246

supported, I'd go and just take them that and

say, I found this.

247

I know that you support them.

248

Would this be of interest to you?

249

And just one or two, and then I'd feel like

I'd kind of respected those items, even though

250

I had to get rid of.

251

I've had to get rid of bags, and I have just

252

recycled a lot of them, as in throwing them

away, but just giving it that time and looking

253

at them and having that evening, perhaps, and

then parting with them felt for me like it was

254

like an important step and one that just

needed that kind of respect, I suppose.

255

MaryLayo: Sure. I know what you mean about

enjoying that time, in a way, and you're

256

right, enjoying isn't quite the right word,

because it wasn't so much what I described

257

earlier.

258

Like it was a project, and we had one purpose,

259

to clear out, get rid of stuff, and it wasn't

about that.

260

There was a time where that process didn't

include the other stuff that I had to go

261

through.

262

And that took a while to really sort of go

263

through and clear out and decide what my

keeping what's not and all that kind of jazz.

264

And I think the last time might have been

maybe, just maybe a couple of years ago that I

265

finished.

266

I wouldn't even say I've finished, but I've

267

more or less finished the filing.

268

And that was the filing of stuff, like doing

269

all the paperwork, so not the clothes, not the

shoes, not their personal items.

270

It was more about the letters, the books, that

kind of category.

271

And that took a long while.

272

And I remember having to go through them and

273

just decide, is this to be kept because it's

important?

274

Is this to be kept because might need to refer

back to it at some point?

275

Or is this just something trivial and it's not

real importance?

276

I remember going through them and just

spending the whole day and evenings over a

277

period of time, going through all of that

stuff and scanning it just in case, or at

278

least there's an electronic copy or shredding

it or disposing of it, recycling it.

279

And I remember that that was quite a time

where I was quite emotional, because after

280

going through it, there was that going through

stuff, even if it was like a trivial letter,

281

like maybe a bank statement or something like

that.

282

It made my parents within touching distance

because I'm looking at something that was very

283

much live at the time.

284

And that kind of must have stirred up things,

285

like, in terms of memories, some things were

very sentimental, some things not.

286

But the fact that it was an account or of that

moment in history that linked to them did stir

287

up memories.

288

And I kind of enjoyed having that time where I

289

was able to relive or remember certain things

because of that paperwork or those photos.

290

But at the same time, it was very emotional

because it was a reminder that they weren't in

291

my life anymore.

292

But the fact that I was able to enjoy those

293

memories by looking at those documents was an

enjoyable experience because I wouldn't be

294

able to create new memories with them.

295

And therefore it enabled me to enjoy those

296

memories by going through those.

297

Whatever it was, photos, documents, letters.

298

Chris: Yeah, I think it's a really important

point, which is that.

299

And this is where I say that I think I'm

probably quite fortunate that for the bulk,

300

not exclusively, but a lot of my engagement

with that process of going through stuff and

301

deciding what to do with it.

302

The bulk of that I've been able to do at arm's

303

length.

304

And I think that what that gives you the

305

luxury of is, I guess, being able to, for me,

almost tap into what are overwhelmingly

306

positive memories of my dad.

307

And like I say again, I'm still scrambling

308

around for the right word, but enjoy that

process to a certain extent.

309

But you will inevitably.

310

And I think I probably found this most when I

311

recently, in the sort of last months before my

mum moved out of the house.

312

When you have to go through everything and you

can't choose, you just have to go through

313

everything.

314

And you go through either the sentimental, the

315

sentimental stuff, there's always more

sentimental material there, the practical

316

stuff, like you say, documents.

317

My dad would have kind of old invoices and

318

things up in the loft.

319

And you just think, I can't really just throw

320

that away.

321

And that's a kind of very practical

322

consideration there.

323

And then there's just the really unexpected,

324

miscellaneous things that you don't really

know what to do with.

325

Not only are there those kind of three

different almost categories, the sentimental,

326

the practical and the completely unexpected,

but you just can't prepare yourself in terms

327

of knowing how you're going to react to those.

328

Actually, it could be, I guess you almost have

329

some, or at least I do.

330

There's almost something kind of cinematic

331

about the idea of finding an old box of

photographs and being able to go through them

332

and almost the family are all there and you

kind of take out a photograph.

333

Oh, do you remember that?

That was a holiday that we went on and those

334

sorts of things, but actually, like I say,

they tap into something that's really positive

335

and then it could be something that is really

kind of mundane, that is the item that sets

336

you off and really upsets you.

337

And I think I would probably say the same

338

thing, that for me, those kind of invoices and

documents relating to my dad's job are

339

probably more of a reminder for me that he's

not here anymore.

340

Because I guess what I'm trying to say is that

you just have to be prepared to be really

341

unprepared to know what to do and kind of just

unexpectedly just be upset by things or happy

342

about you and just not know how you're going

to feel at any given time.

343

MaryLayo: Like, what you said reminded me of.

344

There was part of the paperwork that I had to

345

go through was lots of stuff to do with my

mum's medical appointments and it's od because

346

why would I want to keep that?

But for a season, my mom had a lot of medical

347

appointments because of her health.

348

And in that season, I was there to take her.

349

Not all of the time, but most of the time, I

was there to take her to those appointments.

350

I found the time.

351

I tried to find the time to go with her.

352

And so it's almost like, even though they're

not happy memories, they're still memories of

353

that time that I spent with my mum during that

challenging season.

354

And therefore there's something about chucking

it away when they really were part of that

355

history.

356

Chris: Yeah. And I think that there's

something to be said and I realize that this

357

is really personal to each individual.

358

And I know this from kind of my experience

359

with my siblings, that each of us have very

different, I guess, different relationships

360

with grief and how best to deal with it.

361

For me personally, I think that anything that

362

gives me that acts as a kind of stimulus for

me to feel something, I kind of welcome.

363

And I think I've always been like that.

364

So whether it is a photo, whether it is a bank

365

statement, whether it's anything at all, if

there's something that has the ability to make

366

me sort of feel something, yes, at the right

time.

367

But I'll sort of welcome that because I think

for a while I used to chastise myself a little

368

bit for not feeling enough.

369

It felt like life went on.

370

My dad passed away I had a couple of weeks off

work and then I was back at work and suddenly

371

everything was as it was and I felt slightly

guilty that I wasn't feeling more.

372

And so I think I've always had this, I guess,

inclination towards things that make me feel

373

something, even if it suddenly just makes me

cry my eyes out.

374

Whereas I know that from my brother and my

sister's point of view, they have a different

375

relationship with that.

376

For example, my sister will deal with things

377

in her own way, but she'd hate that.

378

She'd hate the thought of being caught

379

unawares by something and then suddenly just

being like, oh, I'm getting this wave of kind

380

of belated grief.

381

But, yeah, for me, I think those objects that,

382

for whatever reason, help you to connect with

them, then I kind of welcome.

383

MaryLayo: Sure. And how did the whole deciding

what to keep whatnot.

384

There's always challenges when it comes to

keeping or giving away.

385

How did you go about that?

386

Chris: Yeah, so I think it depended on not

only what, but also when.

387

So I would say that there's the two distinct

phases.

388

There's the period after my dad passed away.

389

Up until the point that my mum decided that

390

she needed to move house.

391

It was a sort of big family house that

392

obviously the children had moved out of and

then my dad had passed away.

393

And you're not a big fan of dogs, but the sort

of family dog had then been put down and it

394

was just mum on her own.

395

So there was this moment where she had

396

decided, right, well, I really think that I

need to move on now.

397

And I think at that point you move from a

process whereby you can be selective in the

398

things that you are getting rid of, with

obviously exceptions.

399

If it is something like you say, that relates

to kind of documentation that's important and

400

that sort of thing, then to a point where if

you've decided that you're moving house, in my

401

mum's case, she's moving from a family home

into a much smaller property that just doesn't

402

have the same space.

403

So she just had to start going through those

404

things.

405

At that point, we had kind of different.

406

Again, sort of siblings had different roles.

407

Mum, for some reason, thought that would be

408

best place to clear the loft out now that it

was undertaken with a kind of combination of

409

sort of welcomed sentimentality and then real

kind of practicality and almost a kind of

410

unspoken agreement between the two of us that

certain things that probably had some

411

sentimental value would have to go.

412

I think that because you just couldn't keep

413

everything.

414

There was one moment where.

415

And I'm sure that my mum wouldn't mind me

sharing this, where she had got quite upset

416

because.

417

And there was no malice in it at all, but

418

she'd almost got upset at my dad for having so

much stuff, because she had said, why is he

419

left me with so much stuff to sort through?

And I think that in that moment, she thought

420

if we were to take everything with us, pack

everything up that was in the loft and keep it

421

in its boxes and take it to the next house and

put it in a garage or put it up in the loft or

422

that sort of thing, all you're doing is you're

then pushing that process down the road and

423

then probably making it worse because things

are older and they have more sentimentality

424

to.

425

Mum and I had this kind of unspoken agreement

426

that things would have to go.

427

We just couldn't keep everything.

428

And so there was this kind of, I guess,

process.

429

We did it over a couple of.

430

Couple of days.

431

The loft, which actually was less time than I

thought it might take, but whereby I'd go up

432

into the loft.

433

The loft, by the way, was always my dad's sort

434

of domain.

435

It was where if anybody needed anything out of

436

the loft, it was dad's kind of place to go to.

437

So I felt quite privileged, actually being

438

able to go up there in the first place.

439

But I would sort of bring things down, look at

440

them, and it was like, this is valuable.

441

I'm taking it with me.

442

From mum's point of view, she's taking it with

her.

443

This is something that just needs to go.

444

And then there were those in between that were

445

like, essentially what we were saying is,

let's have a look at them and kind of take our

446

time to understand what they are and what

significance.

447

But we were kind of resigning ourselves to the

fact that we probably knew that those things

448

had to go.

449

So, yeah, it was an interesting.

450

That particular part of it was interesting.

451

And I think that it helped that we were both

452

on that same page, that things would have to

go, and that any sense that my dad's voice was

453

in the background kind of saying, oh, why are

you getting rid of that?

454

I've kept that for 40 years.

455

I think you just had to put that out of your

456

mind to a certain extent, otherwise you just

wouldn't throw anything away.

457

MaryLayo: Sure. And do you think that because

quite some time had passed when you were then

458

clearing out the loft, that kind of helped to

make that quite tough decision?

459

Chris: Yeah, I think so.

460

I mean, I think it's probably quite obvious

461

from the way that I suppose I talk about my

dad at this point, that I'm at peace with his

462

passing now.

463

I think for a while, evidently I wasn't, and

464

unsurprisingly I wasn't, but I think that.

465

I think I'm at least at peace with that.

466

It was still hard, but I think that what helps

is I actually think that the practical

467

considerations really help because it gives

you a sense of purpose if you know that you

468

have to do something.

469

You can't just be ruled by that sort of

470

emotion.

471

You know that there isn't the time and the

472

space for it and it doesn't mean that you're

not giving it kind of the respect that it

473

deserves.

474

But I think you are just driven a little bit

475

more by really practical things.

476

When do we need to get it done by?

477

In mum's case, she knew that she had to go

from a large amount of stuff to a

478

significantly smaller amount of stuff.

479

So I think that those kind of parameters

480

really helped just make it happen.

481

MaryLayo: Yeah, absolutely agree.

482

For me, the fact that we lived in a really

483

small place helped because couldn't keep all

that stuff even if I wanted to.

484

Couldn't.

485

So the hard decisions were made for me.

486

It forced my hands.

487

And then there was another.

488

And that was the initial I would call main

clear out because I was renovating the place

489

as well, had plans in terms of what I was

going to do with mum's room.

490

So a lot of those practical decisions overrode

the sentimental drivers for me keeping it.

491

And I would say the same even some years, a

few years later, when I did another kind of

492

clear out, when I was changing it was now the

spare room, I was changing it to the office

493

and I had to get rid of the big queen size bed

that really was like a signature of my mum

494

because that was her bed and it's so sturdy,

so comfy, so it's there and even it sounds

495

silly, but I know it's not even getting to

that place where it's like, oh, I can't keep

496

the bed, even though I would want to.

497

Practicality tells me that I have to get rid

498

of it, I have to make room for the office.

499

And so those kind of hard decisions helped me

500

really to make those choices because in the

end it wasn't really a choice.

501

Yeah, it wasn't really an option.

502

Chris: Did you, did you ever.

503

And I think I started talking about this in

504

the last question that you asked me, but did

you ever get that?

505

I suppose it's guilt to a certain extent.

506

But it comes from the kind of imagined voice

507

of somebody almost like questioning your

decisions.

508

Did you get that to any extent?

Almost like your mum saying, what are you

509

doing that for?

510

MaryLayo: Yeah, I would say so.

511

And I don't know if I would it.

512

I wouldn't say it was quite because it was in

my mum's voice, those sounds, those words.

513

But I think it's because I know what my mum

was like.

514

My mom kept things.

515

She wouldn't just throw things away, she would

516

keep them just in case, or she'll keep them.

517

And therefore there was a lot of stuff in the

518

house and so it wasn't really my mum's nature

just to get rid of things.

519

My mom would be the one that would say, no,

don't take that away, no, we need that.

520

That was her voice.

521

So moving stuff, getting rid of stuff.

522

It was sad in a way, because I knew that what

we were doing was against my mom's nature.

523

But I don't think I'll say I felt guilt.

524

I just felt a bit torn just because.

525

And that's probably why I asked you that

question about was it easier years later?

526

Because I think that if I had a much bigger

house, I would have been very tempted just to

527

get rid of stuff, but kind of shed stuff, not

really get rid and just park it somewhere

528

because I had the space and I didn't have to

get rid of it.

529

So I would say it's definitely been a learning

for me.

530

And I think just because of the size of the

place has helped me not to keep stuff

531

unnecessarily.

532

One of the first things I think of, even when

533

I'm just buying clothes, have I got room for

that?

534

And that's helped me to kind of minimalize and

just have stuff that I need to have, not

535

extras.

536

It's certainly helped change me, actually.

537

Chris: Yeah, it's funny, I've got a memory of

my brother, actually, from when he was just in

538

terms of the kind of different approaches that

people have.

539

And this is not about kind of moving out of

the family home, but when my brother moved

540

house previously, my brother's a couple of

years older than me, and he moved out of his

541

kind of, I suppose, first house of his own

that he had had and bought and renovated and

542

that sort of thing.

543

And as he was moving out, in my head, I'd have

544

thought, right, well, a couple of weeks, maybe

even a couple of months ahead of time, I'd

545

have started packing up the things.

546

In my case, I've got book, you can see my

547

books behind me, I'd have been packing up my

boxes and those sorts of things and just

548

starting to think about it, knowing that there

was that sentimental or there was some sort of

549

emotional work to do, even in something like

that.

550

If I'm moving, do I need to take this?

Or almost dismantling a house has its own kind

551

of emotional work attached to it.

552

My brother, on the evening that he was moving

553

out of the house, had barely touched, he

wasn't a big house, but he had barely touched

554

the stuff that was inside it.

555

And I had turned up and he'd invited myself

556

and a few of his close friends around to sort

of help him move.

557

There wasn't enough stuff to have a removals

van or anything.

558

And he just swept through the house top to

bottom, couple of hours.

559

I mean, I'm not exaggerating to say that with

kind of work tops, it was almost an arm

560

swished across into a bag, gone.

561

What are you going to do with these?

562

Oh, well, I'm just going to throw them.

563

And it was just instantaneous.

564

And it just struck me that there's no right or

wrong way there.

565

Obviously, there are kind of certain things

probably got sent to landfill that probably

566

could have been served a better purpose.

567

So environmentally, it was probably not the

568

smartest thing to do.

569

But I don't think he has any regrets.

570

I don't think he has any regrets about that as

an approach, whereas I could quite easily have

571

just agonized over things.

572

And like I say, this is talking about just

573

moving house.

574

That's not even going close to the subject of

575

kind of dismantling a house.

576

That's your family home, and it's the home in

577

which your dad passed away.

578

So, yeah, it's just interesting the different

579

ways that people attack it.

580

MaryLayo: Absolutely.

581

I'm just wondering if, just in terms of

582

passing words, maybe some advice that you

could or would give someone if they were in

583

that position of having to clear a house

following the passing of their loved ones,

584

what would you say?

585

Chris: Well, being the good podcast guest that

I am, Mary, I did jot some things down before

586

because I knew that question might be coming.

587

MaryLayo: Ever prepared.

588

Please ever prepare.

589

Chris: Absolutely.

590

You know me well.

591

I think the first thing that I wrote down is

that advice that people give on subjects like

592

this shouldn't be taken as advice as such.

593

They should be taken as other people's

594

experience.

595

And I think that there are so many different

596

ways to approach something like this.

597

And if somebody tells you how you should do

598

it, I think it's by all means, listen to them

and factor their experience into your

599

thoughts, but kind of, I would say take advice

with a pinch of salt because you just don't

600

know how you're going to or how it's going to

work for you.

601

And I think consider that as well when you're

thinking about people around you, you know,

602

particularly if siblings, if siblings are

involved or other relatives, that other people

603

will inevitably have a different approach to

you and will work on different timescales and

604

will kind of have different emotional profiles

and they don't always line up.

605

So I would just be kind of mindful of that.

606

I just wrote down.

607

I'm trying to be kind of concise here, but I

just put be respectful and realistic at the

608

same time.

609

I just think that it's that inevitably you

610

will veer towards either the sentimental or

the overly practical, almost item to item.

611

But I think if there's always that balance of

just being realistic and respectful at the

612

same time, if it's something that you are

getting, that you feel like you have to get

613

rid of, then look at it, open it up, share it,

talk to somebody about it, because I think

614

that helps, but be realistic about it.

615

And then the last thing I had put down was

616

just about.

617

And I think this is probably more of a comment

618

on grief more generally, but just be prepared

to be caught off guard by things and for it

619

not to be that straightforward process that

goes exactly how you planned.

620

Like I say, I think that could be more

applicable to grief in general.

621

That doesn't follow that natural line that as

time passes, you kind of come to terms with it

622

more and everything makes sense more because

actually you can just very quickly be sort of

623

pulled back and something will provoke a

really emotional response in you.

624

And I think that's fine.

625

It's not a sign that that journey that you're

626

on is kind of back to square one again.

627

So, yeah, those are my parting words.

628

I hope that's useful, done yourself justice.

629

MaryLayo: You should be proud of yourself.

630

No, very thoughtful, really thoughtful

631

reflections, actually, for each of them, I

kind of thought.

632

Yeah, that's a good point because it was a

reminder to me of certain things.

633

Chris: Am I putting you on the spot by asking

you to do the same?

634

Is there anything that you've learned?

635

MaryLayo: I think one is have people around,

if you can, to support you in the process.

636

I think it can help, and it does help.

637

It's not to say that you can't do it by

638

yourself, but this is one of those where the

more hands, the better it is.

639

The other, I would say is, you don't

necessarily have to make those hard decisions

640

right at the start.

641

Like I mentioned, even like what you said with

642

your mom, it took her.

643

She did it bit by bit over a period of years.

644

So you don't always have to think of it like,

oh, I must do it, finish it there and then.

645

I think that there are occasions where someone

will need to do that.

646

So, for example, if they need to sell the

house up, but if you don't, then you don't

647

have to do it there and then with a finish

date at the end of it, see how it goes.

648

Then.

649

The other is, it reminds me of what you said,

650

what we were talking about, in terms of

respecting items and the sentimental value of

651

those things.

652

So if you can't keep it, and if it's too

653

sentimental, maybe to give to charity, then

find a happy home for it.

654

It might be, send a picture to a friend and

say, do you want this?

655

Reach out to see if it can go to another happy

home.

656

And then there's probably some things where

it's easy to make cutthroat decisions, like,

657

oh, this is for the bin, this is a keeper.

658

And then you mentioned about that

659

miscellaneous pile.

660

I think separating them out into piles, into

661

categories helps narrow things down and helps

to make that decision, because that

662

miscellaneous pile, it might be easier, on

reflection, to come back to it and be like,

663

oh, you know what?

Actually, I don't need this.

664

Or actually, I could do this with this beer.

665

So don't always need to.

666

It's not black and white, in or out all the

time.

667

Then there was another thing that came to

mind, and I think it was about when you

668

mentioned Paul, do listen in terms of people's

experiences, but don't necessarily take their

669

advice.

670

I think there's definitely something in that.

671

I can't remember how I heard this, but I

remember in a conversation someone saying how

672

they didn't keep their husband's glasses, as

in the spectacles.

673

And then when I was thinking, actually, but

I've still got my mum's glasses, it's no good

674

to me.

675

I'm not going to wear them.

676

But my mum wore those glasses probably 45% or

50% of the time.

677

And so it's another signature item of her.

678

And she always had those glasses on.

679

And so for me, just to dispose of them, didn't

really feel right, didn't feel comfortable to

680

me.

681

So I would definitely reiterate what you said

682

about taking on people's.

683

I mean, listening to people's experiences, but

684

not necessarily basing your decisions on

someone else's approach, do what feels

685

comfortable for yourself.

686

Everyone's different.

687

Chris: Yeah. And I think the last thing that I

would say, just hearing you say that, is that

688

I think that there will inevitably be things

that you part with that you could then regret

689

a later date for exactly that reason.

690

And I think that it's just important.

691

And this isn't advice that I know that I'll

take because I think I probably still would

692

get upset at myself if the kind of situation

arose.

693

But because you can't keep everything, you

will get rid of things.

694

And at some point, you may well have a moment

when you think, why did I get rid of?

695

Why did I get rid of that?

And I think you just have to remember that it

696

isn't the item itself.

697

Like you said, I don't know about their

698

glasses, but they might not have been

expensive glasses.

699

Physically, their value may be really minimal.

700

And actually what it is is your kind of

701

projection onto them.

702

And that's more important, I think.

703

So I would just.

704

Yeah, it's probably a piece of advice to

705

myself, really, that I think when those things

do crop up, and they will do, just not to feel

706

bad at having parted with things that I might

later regret.

707

MaryLayo: Well, Chris, thank you so much for

being that thoughtful, considerate and well

708

prepared guest that I know you to be, and

thanks for sharing your experiences.

709

It's been really cool.

710

Chris: It's been a pleasure and likewise,

thank you.

711

MaryLayo: Here's a spiritual wellness tip for

you.

712

It's psalm, chapter 34, verse 18, and it

reads, the Lord is close to the broken hearted

713

and saves those who are crushed in spirit.

714

Thank you for listening.

715

Do follow and join me again next time on

Maryland talks beyond the smile, close.