The Growing Christian with Rebekah Van Natta (Ep 177)

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Jason McConnell: Thank you for listening and welcome to the podcast. I'm your host, Jason McConnell. There is a difference between believing in God and truly following him. Most people who have spent any time in church would nod along to that, but few of us can tell you exactly where the line is or honestly admit which side of it we're on.

My guest today wrote a book about that question. Her name is Rebecca VanNatta. She is an author, entrepreneur, competitive triathlete, wife, new, mom, home-based in Los Angeles, and she runs a personal training business called, RVNFIT. Co-founder of Christian apparel brand called Lord of Armor with her husband, Andy.

She is the author of The Growing Christian: Two Paths of the Christian Belief, available on Amazon right now. Rebecca came to full surrender a few years ago after years of believing, and she writes it and speaks from the perspective of someone who knows exactly what that gap feels like from the inside.

I think a lot of you are gonna find yourself somewhere in this conversation. You can find everything Rebecca is building on rebeccavannatta.com. I'll put the links in the show notes for you. Just check her out.

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Jason McConnell: Rebecca, welcome to My Ministry Mission, and how are you doing today?

Rebekah Van Natta: I'm good. How are you doing?

, which I believe is Jeremiah: 29:11

Um, a- and that's, that's one of those verses that shows up everywhere: coffee mugs, graduation cards, church bulletins. Uh, it w- but it was written for people in exile, and it's in one of their darkest seasons in their national history. So all that said, what does that verse mean to you, um, knowing the circumstances it was written into?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, it's interesting when you do think about what was really happening when Jeremiah was sending out that message. And I think for me, as I reflect now in my life, it's just kind of a, it's a season of growth, um, that often happens in exile times. Uh, kind of the seasons that are hardest or sometimes when we feel maybe silence from God or even at times abandon, it's really just God on us to seek Him and to trust Him and to surrender. And I think most of our-- I think one thing that I realized as we'll get, you know, into a discussion is I really didn't have a, a faith problem. I didn't have a belief problem. I had a surrender problem. And I

Jason McConnell: Interesting

Rebekah Van Natta: yeah, that I wasn't really following God. So-

Jason McConnell: Yeah, and so I've done some research into that verse because I'm, I'm working on a new series, um, about common Bible verses and how they're maybe misused sometimes.

Rebekah Van Natta: Mm-hmm.

astounded me was in Jeremiah: 29:11

He's like, "Hunker down,

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah

Jason McConnell: gardens, have children, 'cause you're gonna be there for a while, but I'm gonna be there with you."

eks. And right after Jeremiah: 29:11

Jason McConnell: Yes

Rebekah Van Natta: a powerful reminder that, um, time, I think in that time of, you know, devastation and even loneliness, that it could feel like it's God just trying to renew us and restore us and bring us back to Him.

Jason McConnell: Yeah.

Rebekah Van Natta: so, so

Jason McConnell: Love that

Rebekah Van Natta: so dependent, we, we, we feel like we don't need God. We forget our need for Him. And so it's sometimes not that it's God putting it at hand, it's a lot of our own doing, but it's a reminder that, um, know, God is always there. He's always with us, and He wants us to draw closer in relationship to Him

Jason McConnell: Oh, absolutely.

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Jason McConnell: So how about you introduce yourself in your own words? I mean, your, your bio works pretty hard. Personal trainer, reflexologist, reflexologist, real estate agent, author, triathlete, new mom.

I mean,

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, I

Jason McConnell: you did it all. I love it though.

Rebekah Van Natta: I've

Jason McConnell: how do you describe yourself? Yeah, absolutely. Why not, right?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah

Jason McConnell: h- how do you describe yourself when someone just, you know, sits down at a coffee table with you and asks what you do?

Rebekah Van Natta: Um, I would say first and foremost, um, I try... I meet people and they ask me what I do, I, I usually say I'm a, a, a full-time mom, 'cause W- William, my son, is my priority. but then I, I, I often just kinda start talking about Jesus. Kinda just start

Jason McConnell: Excellent.

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, I just kinda just dive in. Um, I, I think at the core of everything I do, once I found Christ, it kind of just... It was the c- you know, Christ is our cornerstone and, or Jesus, and He just, like, opened my world in a, whole different way than I ever viewed what my life was gonna look like after I really found Him. Um, so I get to talk about, you know, my book, being an author, you know, The Growing Christian. I get to talk about my son. I get to talk, uh, I do triathlons as well, and I just actually did a race, uh, last weekend. And, um, if it's okay for me to brag a little bit, I, I came in first female overall,

Jason McConnell: Wow

Rebekah Van Natta: such a, an incredible experience. Um, so I get to talk about kind of just training the body, training the mind, training the spirit.

It all works together. So at the end of the day, um, know, I guess I'm a, I'm a lover of Jesus, a lover of people. I'm a full-time mom. I'm a triathlete and an author. And, uh, yeah,

Jason McConnell: Yeah

Rebekah Van Natta: know, got the real estate business with my husband. We have Lord and Armor, uh, Christian apparel, which is just fun to wear to represent, Christ. Um, so there's a lot, a lot I do.

Jason McConnell: I love it.

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Jason McConnell: And you, you actually competed in an Olympic distance triathlon when your son was eight months old, and you, and you placed third in your division. I mean, like, walk us through that day.

Rebekah Van Natta: yeah, I placed third female overall, and then I placed first in my age division, and I was not expecting that at all. Um, it, it was definitely a moment, like a reclaiming moment of, I think, what I'm... My second book that's gonna be coming out talks about this kind of identity shift and this transformative or transformational period, um, becoming a mom, because it was the first time I really understood the deep love of Christ for His children. Like, in all honesty, I, I had no idea the, the, the depth of love a parent had until I had my son. Um, and so when I was training for this race, it was really to, um, show my son that you can do anything you put your mind to, and that strength doesn't just come from yourself, it comes from God. so when I, every, every step, every breath, I'm just in constant prayer and, and gratefulness for just having a strong body, having a strong mind, for the gift that God has given me, my son. And, um, when I crossed that finish line, it was like everything, all the hard work, everything that I've just, like, in my entire life, it just kind of all came to this, this moment when I picked my son up and crossed the finish line with him, that God is just such a good God, you know? Just like, what a

Jason McConnell: I love that story. Love that story. I,

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah

Jason McConnell: commend you because, I mean, I've done 5Ks and I can barely do a 5K. Like

Rebekah Van Natta: But you did it. That's all that matters. You did it

Jason McConnell: I did it. That's, that's amazing.

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Jason McConnell: Uh, you and your husband Andy co-founded The Lord & Arbor, and I'd love to, to kind of talk on that just as, for a second.

Rebekah Van Natta: sure

Jason McConnell: w- I mean, when somebody puts on that brand for the first time, what are you hoping people will feel?

Rebekah Van Natta: Um, think initially, like, so my husband and I had different ways of seeing what Lord and Armor was, but I, uh, uh, you know, went into the Ephesians where it's spiritual battle. It's, you know, it's not against the flesh, it's against, you know, the, the enemies of this world that, you know, you can't see all the time, but it's like we're in constant...

We're on a battlefield. when I, when I, when we came up with Lord and Armor, um, it's been such a great starter. Like, some people get it and some people don't. But always wanna ask, "Oh, Lord and Armor." And some people right away know what, you know, it's, it's, you know, we're talking about the spiritual battle.

But then some people just, they wanna start talking about it, and it's been an opportunity to invite people to church, to invite people to our home Bible study that we have, um, to, for even me just to share my book with people. I've just, I've bought a bunch of my books, and I just hand them out.

Jason McConnell: Wow

Rebekah Van Natta: in a bag.

I just keep them in a bag and hand them out. And, um, so it's been an opportunity to not only share our faith, for me to share kind of my story, um, the book that I wrote, and just to bring people into community. 'Cause now people are wearing the shirts at our church, and they're wearing the shirts at the gym, and people are like, "Oh, hey.

Oh, hey, you know Andy and Rebecca. You know Jesus. Hey, brother." You know, brother in Christ, sister in Christ, you know?

Jason McConnell: That's fun. That's so much fun

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah

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Jason McConnell: So pivoting to faith, you said you were a believer your whole life. And we'll kinda, you know, continue a, a thought that, that you'd started earlier. Um, but you did describe a moment roughly five years ago when you realized you were a believer but not truly following Jesus, and I think that's where that surrender comes in.

What did you see in yourself that had not let you look at before? Like, what, what did you see that you didn't see before?

Rebekah Van Natta: It's interesting 'cause, I mean, I grew up in the church. My dad worked in the church. He was the media director, and so I spent a lot of time at church. Um, I always believed in God, but... And, and, you know, as, as an adult, you kinda grow into your own, and you try to l- you know, find what that, what, what your relationship is with Christ, and what does that look like and how do you live it out. And I really wasn't seeking that. I know I had tried many times, but there was just this moment when I... And I believe we all... I, I believe God calls on all of us all the time. It's not like He just tries once and that's it, you know? Like, I know, like, I've had these moments with Him, but I had to ultimately a choice.

Now, I, that choice was hard, because I told God, I said, "Hey, tried this before on my own. Like, I've really tried to, like, seek you. I've tried to read the Bible. I've tried going to church." I'm like, "I, I can't do this on my own." So that was the surrender moment, and I remember I was in my studio, just sitting there, and I was praying. I said, "God, I need your help. Like, I need you to show me. I need you to help me follow you because I want to. I, I, I don't wanna live my way anymore. Like, I'm not doing it very well." "Like, I need your help." And, um, that was the moment when the next day I walked into the studio, and, um, for... I've never really felt God speak to me, but in my heart or however He was doing it, He w- He basically told me, know, "All right.

You wanna follow me? Stop listening to your secular music that you listen to when you're working out." And I was like, "This is so weird." I'm like, "Why do I feel like I, I g- I just wanna listen to worship music?" I'm like, "This is so weird." And so I did. So that one day, I put on my worship music. I found some stuff, and I was like, "All right. This is good." I did that for one day, two day, and then on the third day, I was like, "Let me go back to some of my old stuff," 'cause I'm like, "I need to get my pump on." And, um, sure enough, I put on the music, and nope, God convicted me. He's like, "Uh, uh, uh." And I was like, "Oh, my gosh. I can't listen to this stuff anymore." And it blew my mind, because I didn't really feel like I was doing anything wrong. I wasn't, you know, going out and partying and whatever. I was just listening to music. But that was one way God started me and directing me toward Him. 'Cause from there, it just went on to, like, me reading the Bible, to me going to church, um, just really spending intimate time with Him.

I got baptized, um, a couple years after that, and, you know, f- again, God was just saying, you know, "You wanna be anew? Let's do it." Like, "Let's go all the way. You're in or you're not."

Jason McConnell: Yep. Yep

Rebekah Van Natta: yeah.

Jason McConnell: Wow.

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Jason McConnell: And before you came to that full point of surrender, now you did go through the loss of your mother and described some real anger and brokenness in that season. And how did that loss shape your faith, um, even though it was before you were fully walking with God the way you are now?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah. Um, I never stopped believing in God in that time. I was just really angry and very confused. Um, and, you know, I had to grieve, uh, the loss, but I didn't wanna get stuck there. So I did start going back to church a little bit during that time to find some peace. Um, and I think during that time it did help me.

But I, I mean, God was still present even though I felt really far from Him. Um, I look back and I know I could not have gotten through that dark time and all those, you know, hard moments, uh, without Him. There's just no way. Um, so I got lost a few times, for sure, but He always you know, He was always with me 'cause I, I clearly got back on a path that was going toward Him at some point, and stay, I'm st- I'm trying to stay there my best, the best that I can, um, knowing,

Jason McConnell: Yeah,

absolutely

Rebekah Van Natta: in Him now. Yeah.

Jason McConnell: Yeah, I, I mean, you know, we, we talked about this. I lost my sister, um, about a year ago, and l- leading up to that, I mean, you know that's a possibility, and you always think about what you would do in those circumstances. And, and when I was sitting there, uh, I didn't, I didn't pray, you know, I didn't seek God.

I didn't do any of that that I thought I would be doing. I just sat there in, in the sorrow, and, you know, God came in later and started cleaning up the mess.

Um, so it's weird how, you know, how you think you're gonna react and then how you really do when the moment hits you.

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Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, I think that's also why triathlons, they started off as a, a way to honor my mom, and my mom loved the Lord. She loved Jesus. And, um, so I knew where she was, and that brought me a lot of peace. But I, I started triathlons as a way to, um, honor her, remember her, and, but what I didn't realize was that was part of the journey God was gonna start working in me. There's something that happens with the physical when you push yourself beyond being comfortable, it's learning that your strength isn't your own, that the endurance, it's, you know, uh, a race. Life in general is not a sprint, it's like a marathon. It's like a ultrathon, whatever you wanna call it.

It, it keeps, it keeps going. And, um, when I started the triathlons and I crossed that first finish line, I knew that was just the start of something new in my life. But I didn't realize it was going to transform into what it is now, because it is, is my quiet time with God. That is where I'm at most peace. That's where I'm alone with him. And even though I'm moving, um, I'm in my mind, in my heart, I'm at so much peace, and that's just my quiet time with him. And so it builds me up. That's why after I had Will, I was like, I know I have to get back out and run. I know I have to get back out and swim and bike because that is the closest to God I'm able to get, um, and the quietest place that I'm able to get with him.

And it builds me in a way where it strengthens my mind, it strengthens my body and my spirit, my soul. So just crazy how God works when I look back. 'Cause I n- listen, I never, ever thought I w- I would ever do a triathlon, let alone place in any of them. And, um, I hated running. I didn't know how to swim until I was 23 or 24.

My sister taught me. Um, you know, I never was, uh, I never really did road biking. Like, these are all things that were complete challenges. When people say, "Oh, I could never do triathlons 'cause I hate running," I'm like, "Listen, I hated running, too." you know, God's gonna work the way he works

Jason McConnell: Yeah,

Rebekah Van Natta: you allow,

Jason McConnell: that's fair

Rebekah Van Natta: him.

And it is a complete surrender in every moment, in every step, you know?

Jason McConnell: Yeah, absolutely. I love that. 'Cause I, I hate running too, so I guess I can't use that excuse.

Rebekah Van Natta: not... yeah, exactly. You can't use that with me.

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Jason McConnell: So when you finally did surrender, um, what did, what did that actually cost you?

Rebekah Van Natta: I, you know, that's kind of an interesting question. When I finally surrendered I guess it, it costs, it, it, you know, it opens your eyes in a way that you can't see things the way you saw them before. Like with the music, very simple. You know, you realize, like, you know, is this glorifying God? You know, is this where God is directing me? 'Cause it's not about you anymore. You're, like, dying to yourself, like it says over and over again in the Bible.

Like, you die to your flesh, you die to your, your old ways. Like, you're literally a new person. Um, your identity is no longer in yourself. It's not in the world. It's, it's not from your spouse. It's not from your children, your hobbies. It's, it's literally your identity itself is in Christ. So

Jason McConnell: Yeah

Rebekah Van Natta: I, you know, just... The cost was, was my, what I thought my identity was, I guess. You know, losing myself, but gaining, you know, so much more. Because at the end of the day, I know I am, and I'm confident in who I am because I am a child of God. And, um, I think that changes a lot of things when you it off of yourself and you're like, not about me." know? It's about God. It's about what, what is my mission for Him? Like, 'cause at the end of the day, I wanna go be with Him. You know?

Jason McConnell: Yeah, absolutely. That's a great answer. Um, and, you know, it's hard to explain, um, redemption to people, uh, 'cause, you know, you have the justification. You know, once you accept Christ, that's a one and done. You're done there. But sanctification is a lifelong pursuit, and every moment of every day, God is trying to make you more like Christ

Rebekah Van Natta: Uh-huh.

Jason McConnell: and then one day we'll come to glorification, you know, when Christ returns and takes us all home

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah. Yeah, I think, I guess to answer a little bit more of that is I guess there... I didn't realize, and I did afterwards, that there's an obedience that follows with, with... It's not like a rule book. It's just that you can't help but wanna change and be more like Christ, which means if, you know, you're spending time with Him, that you're willing to do what He's calling of you or asking of you, even if it doesn't sit right with you or sit right with the world or people say you shouldn't do it, but you know God is calling you somewhere.

It's like walk in obedience, that was something that I, I wasn't doing. And so with the surrender, uh, follows, you know, obedience, and I think that is where a lot of the transformation as a, not just a believer, a follower, you

Jason McConnell: Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

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Jason McConnell: So when you were writing your book, I think you described the experience as the Holy Spirit writing through you, that God was surfacing memories you had forgotten and basically showing you where he had been the whole time. And that, I mean, that fascinated me. What does that feel like from, from the inside, from, from your perspective?

Rebekah Van Natta: I, it's crazy 'cause, um, there's a lot of that in my first book, but there's even more of that in my second book. 'Cause my second book is kind of expanding off of the growing Christian, now coming into being a mom and continuing with triathlons, which I talk about in my first book. But it's pretty wild.

Like, I, I don't know, I'm just writing, and sometimes I look back and I'm like, "I don't even remember writing this." Um, or, or as I'm writing, you know, He, you know, the Holy Spirit just wr- He's bringing out these stories that I wasn't even thinking about, but He just kinda leads me into it as I'm writing, and I'm just going...

I just sometimes have to step back and go, "Oh my gosh," like, "thank you for reminding me that, you know, you've always..." Sorry, "That you've always been here. Um, even in the, the parts when I, I was far, you were, you were still near." Um, and even how He brought my sister and I back together after my mom wa- you know, after my mom passed, how He mended our relationship.

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Rebekah Van Natta: Um, even how my, I met my husband, how, you know, Will, you know, Will being here. Just all these things that I just never could imagine, you know? God's just like, "Okay, see? See? I'm here. I'm present." Like, "Continue trusting me. I, I got you."

Jason McConnell: Yeah. So I think there's moments where you step back and we're like, "I, I didn't just write that."

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, there's no way. There's no way. Like, I mean, there's just moments and God's just so cool how he works

Jason McConnell: Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely. I have so many stories.

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Jason McConnell: Um, the title of your book, uh, The Growing Christian, w- what does that phrase kinda mean to you? I mean, what's, what's the difference between a growing Christian and someone who is just Christian?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah. Um, well, I mean, I, I love always, like, talking about the physical terminology, you know, when it comes to, like, fitness and stuff, 'cause it's like, you know, athletes back in the day, like, you know the old, like, glory days, like college players, and they let... You know, now they're in their 50s, and they're like, "Yeah, I played ball," and blah blah blah.

And it's like, well... But now they're, like, overweight. I'm sorry. They're overweight now, but they'll- about the glory days. They'll st- they'll talk about, like, you know, them being athletes and fitness, but, like, they're no longer that. That was who they were at one point, um, but they didn't follow through and keep up with it. So, you know, same with Christians. You know, you can call yourself a Christian because you're a believer, but the difference is, are you truly following Christ? And I would hope that every believer, that every Christian, is wanting to grow in their faith and grow in their walk and deepen their relationship with Christ, because it's a forever walk.

It's a forever journey. You don't... It's not like a one-and-done thing. Like, "Oh, I got baptized. I'm good," or, "Oh, I accepted the Lord as my savior." It's like, "So I can go do what I wanna do." So that was the whole point. It's just like, I'm, I'm not coming from a point of perfection at all, 'cause Lord knows I am not. Um, I am sincerely a growing Christian, and I... Every day I try to surrender. Every day I try to be a little bit more like Christ. And so this book, when I put, you know, The Growing Christian, it's just basically, it's my, my personal journey and growth as a Christian and a continuing Christian. Um, so yeah.

Jason McConnell: Yeah.

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Jason McConnell: And you talked about surrender being a daily thing. It's not a one-time event. You don't just one and done it. And I mean, with a, with a toddler, multiple businesses, everything on your plate, um, I mean, how do you, how do you make sure that you do that daily surrender in a practical sense?

Rebekah Van Natta: Like I said, like when I train, when I'm out, like I have my time every day, usually every day except for on Sunday. I take Sunday off for rest, but-- and I go to church. But, um, every day, uh, for at least two hours, I'm running, biking, swimming, or at the gym, um, I'm in-- I'm on prayer mode. I'm like... I'm praying for people.

I'm praying for, you know, my family. I'm thanking God. I'm praising God. That's one thing that, um, changes my day, is to go and my-- challenge my, my body, challenge my mind, but also rest in, in being with God. Um, the other thing I do is, um, I, I try to read the Bible throughout the week, spend some time reading, continue learning. D- I mean, I've read the Bible, but I continue reading it because it's literally... It-- they call it the living Bible for a reason, because it's so alive. Every time you sit down and you read the Bible, it's so relevant to where you are in your life or to where we are in this world. Um, so that's always super cool to be able to like sit down and read the same thing and like take something completely different from it because it's relevant right now in this moment, in this time for me. Um, know, and then we started a Bible study, um, at our home. So every three weeks we have fellowship, we have friends, we have neighbors come to our home, and we, uh, we just start breaking down. Right now we're in the book of James, but just kind of

Jason McConnell: Oh

Rebekah Van Natta: about like eight key verses, you know? I know this is-- James is practical.

You can apply it. It has everything to do with the growing Christian. Um, and so yeah, so th- those are some ways I, I try to incorporate

Jason McConnell: Yeah, you make me feel like,

Rebekah Van Natta: and grounded

Jason McConnell: you make me feel like I need to step up my game. I go, I mean, I go to the gym like three, four times a week for like 45 minutes to an hour, and I'm like, two hours every day? Come on. You're making me look bad.

Rebekah Van Natta: okay, okay, okay, okay. Listen, I'm not saying I always work out for two hours, but I, I have about two, a two-hour timeframe, so,

Jason McConnell: I'll figure it out

Rebekah Van Natta: to, to be with Christ. Yeah, just to be with him, hang out.

Jason McConnell: Right on.

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Jason McConnell: What, what would you say to a listener right now who's been in church their whole life, genuinely loves God, believes in Jesus, but feels stuck, like something's missing or they can't, like, figure out what it is?

Rebekah Van Natta: Um, I mean, I think there has to be honesty with where they are in their life and with their relationship with Christ. Like, what, what... I think for me, when I, I figured out I wasn't really living for God, that was a huge game changer, 'cause then I had a choice. I could just keep doing what I was doing, or I could make changes. We have to examine our hearts and be honest if we were wanting to pursue Jesus fully, not casually. Um, so I think, know, it's easy to just be comfortable and settle into a, a lifestyle that probably doesn't really have anything to do with God, right? It's more conforming to the world. But if you do start seeking God and asking for Him to help, I think that's the biggest thing most peop- most of us don't do, is we don't ask God for help. Um, and w- we really can't do it on our own. We're, we're totally incapable. Um, so I think that if people feel stuck, they need to reach out to God and ask Him to help them in those areas where they're struggling, and to be honest with that, and make, make a choice to be obedient God is calling them, um, in that, in that moment, you know?

Jason McConnell: A- and be patient and wait for an answer. Listen for an answer. I

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah,

Jason McConnell: people lose patience. They want it right away.

Rebekah Van Natta: the more time you spend with Him, the more your ears are open, the more your eyes are open. And thing I always pray for, for people that have really hard hearts, because a- the world will just do that on its own. It'll just harden your heart. I just pray for God to soften, soften my heart, soften whoever I'm praying for, soften their heart so that they can hear, so that they can see God is placing in their life, what God is telling them or asking of them, where He's pointing them.

It's hard to do that when your heart, your heart is hardened, and you don't have the eyes to s- the spiritual eyes to see or the spiritual ears to hear. So when I ask God, I, I was-- I'm not even kidding you. I said, "God, I cannot do this. need your help." He came in in a way that was def- definitely unexpected, and, uh, I mean, who knew that just changing my music would change my life, you know?

Jason McConnell: Yeah.

Rebekah Van Natta: So

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Jason McConnell: let's, let's focus on your book. I wanna give you some time there. Um, I mean, tell us about The Growing Christian. Um, I mean, you've already told us a little bit, but what, what is it? Who did you write it for? Um, what do you hope someone will walk away from after reading it? That kind of stuff.

Rebekah Van Natta: Um, really it's just kind of my story, like we were- we've been talking about, recognizing that there's really just two paths. It doesn't matter if you're a Christian or non-Christian. Even though we know that we have salvation, it's so much easier to lose sight of, of, of Christ if we're, we're going a way that isn't honoring Him. Um, you know, is the complete opposite of God. Like, there's literally, there's, there's good, there's evil. You know? There's light, there's dark. We have to make a decision which path we want to go. And, um, so that, so for me, that's what the two paths of the Christian belief kind of represents, is that there's the narrow road and there's the wide road, you know?

And I, and I try, you know, daily to make sure that I'm not distracted or that I don't get lost or lose sight of the narrow road, because that ultimately brings freedom. Um- But yeah, it, uh, The Growing Christian. I don't know, it, it, it's just a representation of, like, who I think most people think they are in Christ, but maybe pointing out some things for them to really take a deep dive, um, in their walk with Christ.

And I put a lot of scripture in here. I think one thing that a lot of people say about my book that they love is that there's a bunch of Bible verses in there, and they're, they're sectioned out so it's, it's very, like, it's there in your face. It's got the Bible verse. It's, it's where you can get where you can look it up in the Bible.

And I- my whole point was to redirect people back to the Bible when I

Jason McConnell: うん。

Rebekah Van Natta: writing this. 'Cause as much as it's my story, it's, it's not. It's, it's God's story and what He's done in my life. So, um, as you read the book, you'll see a ton of Bible verses in here, and I, my hope is that people take these Bible verses, go into the Bible, read them, dissect them, you know, ingest them, um, really take it with them, you know, every day or every week.

Like, you know when you go to church, you're like, "I gotta..." You know, you wanna get something out of church that you can take with you, um, so that you can, you know, incorporate it into your life and live it out. So that's kind of what I was trying to do here with the Bible verses. and it just goes in between talking about what does it really look like to be a real, a, a, a real Christian.

What does that mean? So I talk a lot about who Jesus is, I'm like, look, if you

Jason McConnell: Yeah

Rebekah Van Natta: be more like Jesus, like, you're on a good path, right?

Jason McConnell: Yep

Rebekah Van Natta: don't have those qualities, like, there's things we have to work on, and those are daily things for the rest of our life. It's not, I figured it all out.

I'm a, you know... And, and I, and it, and, and I talk about works and all that in here. It's not even about that. I think what happens, though, is the more you grow like Christ, the m- like, the more you do wanna serve, the more you, you wanna be patient and kind and loving and forgiving. It just, it's just part of, like, what the Holy Spirit does in you if you allow it.

[: 00:33:49

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Jason McConnell: You know, you know, it's funny you mention that because the more, the more I grow in my faith, um, the more, or I should say the less I understand the violence around the world, the wars, the hatred. It's like I just don't get it. Why are we so angry?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah. Yeah. Hardened hearts. Sin

Jason McConnell: yeah, hardened hearts.

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah

Jason McConnell: which, I mean, I was there. I've been there. You know, I, I've, I, you know, been a Christian five, going on six years now. Um, I was there before. I get it, but I don't understand it anymore

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, you have a changed heart. You have a changed mind. You have a changed spirit, you know? It's, it's so, it's ... I, I feel the same when people get all upset and huffy and puffy, and I'm just like, "Man, God's got it. Everything's good. Just, take a deep breath. Like, everything's gonna be fine."

Jason McConnell: Yeah, I, I also get concerned because I see a lot of infighting within the faith, within denominations, and it's like, you guys are so angry about things that you really maybe shouldn't be so convicted on.

Rebekah Van Natta: For

Jason McConnell: let's focus on Jesus. Let's focus on salvation. Outside of that, we can have our differences

Rebekah Van Natta: Oh, I talk about that in my book too. I talk about how, like, Christians are the worst representations of Christ. and

Jason McConnell: Right

Rebekah Van Natta: I'm just calling us out because we've all been there. We've all been the, the Christian that kinda like is not such a great person. I know a lot of people that are non-believers that are really great people, but at the end of the day, you know, you know as a Ch- as a believer in Christ that you have to know Christ, accept Him as your Lord and Savior, and hopefully that changes you to be a better person. But just 'cause you're a Christian doesn't mean you're a good person. I always tell people about the church. I'm like, you know, the church itself is just full of broken people,

Jason McConnell: Right

Rebekah Van Natta: It's not a place where perfect people go. It's literally a place of just broken people. If you read the Bible, I talk about it in here. no perfect person in the Bible except Jesus.

Jason McConnell: Right ?

Rebekah Van Natta: know? Just a bunch of, like, messed up individuals that God uses, and He can use us

Jason McConnell: It's so funny, it's so funny you mention that. So last year my mom did the year in the Bible thing. Like I, I bought her a Bible study book. She did the whole thing for a year. But when she was going through, um, some of the, the Old Testament books, the, the Judges, the Numbers, the, all that stuff, she, she and I would talk about it.

I mean, we still do, but we'd get on the phone and talk about it, and she's like, "In thousands of years, we really haven't changed, have we?" And I'm like, "Nope."

Rebekah Van Natta: can't figure it out. That is, that is the flesh. That is the sin, you know? And, uh, it's so true. But it also makes you feel a little bit better knowing like, all right, these, these guys that, or these men, these women that God used were rough around the edges, but, um, they, they had a transformation when, when they s- when they found the Lord. He can use anybody

Jason McConnell: Absolutely.

[: 00:37:01

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Jason McConnell: Has any, has anyone ever come back to you with a story of how the book landed in a way you really didn't expect?

Rebekah Van Natta: My book?

Jason McConnell: Yeah. Yeah

Rebekah Van Natta: Uh, I don't think so. Not yet. I,

Jason McConnell: Okay

Rebekah Van Natta: I said, I just pointed out, you know, people really like the Bible verses in there. and I was happy to hear that because that means it points them back to the Bible, so

Jason McConnell: And I think you'd mentioned that you have not done a lot of promotion for this yet. Um, and that it, it, I mean, it just feels like it's the right season to push it maybe. Was there anything that kind of, uh, helped you make that decision, or, or is it just you feel it?

Rebekah Van Natta: my husband.

Jason McConnell: Yes.

Rebekah Van Natta: He's my biggest, uh, he's my biggest supporter. But yeah, no, you know, I hadn't done any, um, marketing for The Growing Christian, and I started writing my second book. He's like, "You should get your book out there and let people read it," and know, and I was like, "Yeah, I guess you're right."

And you know, when I was writing The Growing Christian, I was pregnant. Um, and so, you know, after the baby, uh, it was a whirlwind and everything kind of was on stop for maybe about the first year. So now that he's, um, on his way to two, I've been, um, kinda back at it in a routine and trying to get back into, um, just working with my book, with Lauren Armor, all of it.

So... And I, you

Jason McConnell: Awesome

Rebekah Van Natta: like in these times, I think it's really important... I, I just, my hope is that when, if there are people that were living their life like I was, I just want them to know that there's a better way, that they could have a more fulfilled life, um, a m- a more joyful life. it's changed my life in so many ways.

I can't even, can't even begin to explain it all. But I, that's why I w- wrote The Growing Christian to kind of just share my story. So hopefully people f- that feel, like you said, stuck or not quite sure, you know, they can dig in and, and just know that like God is real, God is here, and it's also our duty to learn Him, to know Him. not a one-way relationship, you know? It's two ways. He's our Father. We're His, we're His kids. So we have to spend time with Him.

Jason McConnell: It's a lifelong pursuit

Rebekah Van Natta: Forever

Jason McConnell: That's, that's one of the things I love about doing this podcast. I am never gonna run out of material, ever.

Rebekah Van Natta: ever, ever.

Jason McConnell: Love it.

[: 00:39:33

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Jason McConnell: So, you know, if today's conversation put words to something that maybe you've been feeling, uh, Rebecca's book, The Growing Christian: Two Paths of the Christian Belief, is probably where you wanna go next.

Um, it is available on Amazon right now. I will drop links in the show notes. You can find everything she's doing at, uh, rebeccavannotta.com, right?

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah.

Jason McConnell: I did that right. Okay.

Rebekah Van Natta: Yeah, that's good

Jason McConnell: and shop Lord and Armor, I think it's lordandarmor.com. Um, give her a follow on Instagram. I will put all of the links in the show notes of how you can connect with her, how you can connect with her book, with all of her stuff.

So, um, be sure to check that out.

[: 00:40:13

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Jason McConnell: And, uh, before we finish up, is there any last words, any final thoughts you have for the listeners?

Rebekah Van Natta: No, I j- I just, uh, thank you so much for having me and, um, for allowing me to share my story. Uh, my story's not over, just like anyone who's listening here, your story's not over. is good, and he wants good things for you. And, if you're looking to just kind of deepen your, your walk, I, I think my book is, um, a great little tool.

It's not too deep. It's not too heavy. It's not very theological. It's just kind of the basic understanding of who God is and who we are in him. So, um, yeah, but thank you for giving me the opportunity. I appreciate it

Jason McConnell: Rebecca, thank you. The way you talk about the difference between believing and truly following, that is a distinction that a lot of people maybe feel and very people say out loud with this kind of clarity. Um, you did not-- You don't make it a lecture, you made it a story, and that's, I think that's what helps it land.

So listeners, if, if something in this conversation stirred something in you, I hope you will sit with that for a little while. Um, it might be the beginning of something you can't even imagine. Um, again, you can find her book online. Um, you can find her on Instagram. All those links will be in the show notes.

Um, you know, Rebecca, God bless you, and thank you for all you've done.

Rebekah Van Natta: Thank you. God bless you, and thank you for doing what you do

Jason McConnell: And for the listeners, until next time, keep loving your neighbors, dive into God's Word daily. May the Lord bless you and keep you and fill you with His peace. Take care, God bless, and I'll see you in the next episode

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