This episode features Eric and Rachel Rivera, owners of Artistic Flooring and Tile. This was such a fun interview! We knew Rachel but had just met Eric, so this was us getting to know him. Eric and Rachel as a couple are similar to us, in that one is very extroverted and the other is more introverted, so they balance each other really well.

Eric shares his journey of starting as a teenager in the flooring and tile business in his uncle's family business.

The importance of learning through hands-on experience, committing to high-quality artistry, and putting customer experience above all else, are key takeaways from his entrepreneurial journey.

Rachel speaks about her role in handling the business and accounting side, and the instrumental part she plays in the company's success. They both highlight the importance of not rushing into deals and respecting boundaries in a family business.

There are a lot of nuggets in here about customer centric business and how to think about the work you do. Soak in the hard-won wisdom this couple is sharing.

00:00 Introduction and Welcoming the Guests

00:19 The Start of Eric's Flooring and Tile Journey

01:11 The Challenges and Joys of the Flooring Business

02:22 Family Involvement in the Business

03:23 The Artistic Side of Flooring and Tile

07:16 The Transition from New York to Florida

10:38 The Business Aspects and Growth Plans

16:58 The Family Dynamics in Business

22:26 The Art of Flooring and Tile

25:55 The Art of Negotiation and Compromise

26:19 Building Relationships with Architects and Designers

27:02 The Importance of Understanding the Client's Vision

30:08 The Challenges and Rewards of a Family Business

30:31 The Journey from New York to Florida: Starting Over

33:29 The Art of Installation: A Detailed Perspective

34:38 The Importance of Customer Experience in Business

37:51 The Role of Perfectionism in Business

44:46 The Dynamics of Working with Family

45:35 The Importance of Setting Boundaries in Family Business

47:04 The Value of Collaboration and Mutual Respect

49:20 The Pursuit of Wealth: A Different Perspective

51:03 The Power of Collaboration and Networking

51:26 Conclusion: The Journey of Artistic Flooring and Tile LLC

You can reach them and see photos of their work on Facebook at https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100054233780540 and on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/artistic_flooring__tile_llc_/

Hi, today we are celebrating

Eric and Rachel Rivera of

Artistic Flooring and Tile.

Hi guys!

Hey, how are you?

Thanks for joining us.

Thank you.

Our podcast.

Thanks for having us.

We're so excited to have you too.

I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, we want to hear all about your life.

So how did your business get started?

How did you get into flooring and tile?

Honestly, I started doing it

when I was a young teenager.

I always wanted to find a way to, to make

money when I was young, because I always

liked to, , have my own money and, , my

grandmother used to insist on shoveling

driveways, but she also used to want me

to do it for free, so I said, grandma, you

got to have some better ideas than that.

She eventually, , put me with

her son, my uncle, and, , I would

spend the summers of middle school.

I think I started right

around middle school.

, like sixth, seventh grade, I would do

it during the summertime, at least a few

days a week, or at least on the weekends.

And even though it was hard work, yeah,

even though it was hard work, I really,

I really, really seem to enjoy it.

Even as a young kid, I

really, I really enjoyed it.

So, , I started off as...

Was it a kind of an apprenticeship?

Pretty much, pretty much,

I started off hard too.

I started off carpet.

First, which, , some people think

that ceramic tile has got to be

the most strenuous, but it's not.

Carpet is, carpet will wear you out.

It'll have you hunched over.

I mean, it'll ruin your

knees, your back for sure.

Early.

I'm already 44 and I feel okay.

, from, , predominantly doing hard

surfaces, tile, laminate, stuff, stuff.

You can carry one box at a time

instead of a whole, a whole giant

roll of carpet on your neck.

Well, and that thing that they use

to, to put to carpet in place, that

knee that you kick with your knee,

the kicker, it's got a pad, but that

looks like it hurts like the dickens.

And especially, , the first time

I heard my uncle say, , to do

it right, , you gotta feel it.

I was like, yeah, that's, this

isn't, this isn't going to be for me.

I promise you, I'll put all your

patent tax drip down real quick.

Smart boy.

That's right.

He Work smarter, not harder.

Than I made sure I was so

good at it that he would never

want me to install any carpet.

So you really started

in a family business.

I mean, you were, even though it

was your uncle, you were second

generation in a family business.

Did you have like cousins

that were his sons that worked

for him as well or daughter?

Yep.

Yep.

His son, Jason he was younger than me.

So he came.

See, it's crazy because before me,

there was one of my second cousins

who was four years older than me.

And he actually started

with my uncle first.

And then went on to

become an auto mechanic.

That's when I weaseled my way in like,

okay cousin guy is out of the way.

So.

, what about me?

And, , then he's, he's my uncle,

Mike has spent time with a few of us.

There's a couple other cousins that

actually have learned the trade from him.

Some of them went off to have, , to make

wiser decisions from the experience and

some of us are just, I don't know, built,

I mean, I appreciate it, I appreciate

using my hands and being able to be.

Artsy in a way, , pay my

bills at the same time.

And art, , art's always been my thing.

So, art's always been my thing.

So, , I mean, what we do here at Artistic

Surface, Artistic, I say Artistic

Surface, that's my old business name.

Back in New York, yeah.

I had to switch it.

So at Artistic Flooring and Tile, , we

we pride ourselves on doing high end

work and taking on, , those, those

very, very detailed projects that, , can

go wrong with one, one false move.

And that's the artsy side of me that,

that I'm allowed to I don't know, utilize

through my, through my flooring skills.

So and also that's the thing that divided

you from, from some of the cousins that

went in a different direction is that

they, I think, I think I loved it more

because there is, there is a lot of, there

is a lot of strain, , there is, you do,

it is a lot of manual and physical labor.

It really is, I think math wise to,

to be honest with you, Eric really is

a numbers guy and likes to calculate

and, , a lot of like layouts and

like how you do on the job site.

A lot of it has to do with.

Measurements and calculations

and stuff like that.

And you have to do a lot of math and,

and, and adjusting and stuff like that.

So I think that's a strong suit for

him also, and something he likes to do.

So putting those two together for him, I

think is what makes him really enjoy it.

Yeah.

It makes me, makes me want to stay focused

and, , you fight through the pain because

you, you can't think about the pain

as much when you're thinking about the

details and the measurements all at once.

The challenge behind that

makes the day go by so quickly.

, I believe there's two different

types of people in this world when

it comes to work in the workforce.

And I think a lot of us will agree

that there's, there's the person that

there's never enough time in a day.

You say it all the time.

You say it to people that you

work, you work amongst, you say

it to yourself, Oh my God, there's

never enough time in the day.

It's because you're, you're trying

to get so much accomplished that

your days go by really quick.

There's that person, and then there's

the type of person that shows up 10

minutes late every day, is supposed

to be working from 7 to 3:30.

30, he's pretending to sweep the

same area he was sweeping a half hour ago.

That type of person tends

to have very long work days.

And could you imagine

having that skill set?

And being a construction

worker at the same time.

I mean, that's a torturous life.

I would, I would think, , for some.

Where for me I don't, I never feel

like there's enough time, , I've

had customers, I've had customers.

Tell me it's getting late and that

they want to sit down and have dinner.

Oh, you can come back tomorrow.

That'd be great.

So it that that level of engagement

and getting engrossed in the work and

really, , just kind of losing yourself

getting into a they call that flow

state, , where you you're just so in it,

you're you kind of lose track of time.

All of a sudden you look at the clock

and you're like, it's time to go.

And weirdly, you're like, not yet.

I should want to go.

I've been working for nine hours now.

I should really, really want to go home.

Wow.

If you could bottle that, I can tell,

I can tell you could sell a lot of it.

Oh, yeah.

We need a wrench.

That's our new business.

model.

How many years in tile now?

You said 44 and you started

when you were in middle school.

So what?

30 plus years.

I don't know.

That's a good question because

tile I've only been doing tile for.

12, 12 years.

When you moved to here,

when you moved to Florida?

No I've, we've been here two years now.

Oh, okay.

Yeah.

So about 10 years back in New York and

then two so far since I've been here.

Okay.

Yeah, I moved on from carpet in

my, when I, right around when I

met Rachel, actually, because when

I met Rachel, I was still living

around the corner from my uncle.

As a matter of fact.

Yeah.

So that's kind of when I left it.

, I didn't, I never wanted to buy a van

or have to maintain a van and a van is a

necessity when you're doing carpet, a van

or a cube truck, you have to have room

for goods rolls up to 15 feet longer.

No, there's 12 and 15 foot goods when

it comes to carpet, you gotta be able

to lug either one of those sizes around.

So I'm more of a pickup truck,

, toolboxes on the back of it.

Kind of guy.

So did you go through the wood floor?

I'm guessing in New York, there's a

lot of old buildings that have got a

lot of nice, , wood, hardwood floors.

Did you also do that?

A lot more than here.

So we're, even as a laminate guy,

which is where I started, laminate is

like, It's the new version of hardwood.

Hardwood's an entirely different animal.

There's a lot more, a lot of more

responsibilities to come with it too.

You have to pay, it's, it's, it's real.

You know what I mean?

It's a live material.

, it won't quite, it expands and contracts.

, where sometimes laminates

only expand if they get wet.

Which has been a problem for a lot of

people in the last 20 to 30 years, which

is why they've switched to the vinyl

tile, which also looks like laminate.

So I've progressed with time, where

I put in miles and miles and miles,

let alone square feet of laminate.

And then eventually ventured on

to hardwood, whether it be nailing

it down over subfloors, because we

don't have only or predominantly

concrete substrates up north.

And then eventually, , ventured

over to even gluing it down over

concrete, which was good to get that

experience, not knowing that I was

going to eventually live in Florida.

But even with that, there's a lot

to pay attention to, , you have

to make sure that the concrete.

, moisture levels are at a certain, at a

certain level before you can install it.

So everything was like a

more of a slow progression.

I went from easy to, to a difficult

level over time with my, my floor

coverings is what they refer to them.

All lands that, that can, when you

say floor coverings, that pretty much

refers to all, , which was always.

Which is always very beneficial to me

because I was able to be a lot more

versatile than just any other floor guy.

, you have your tile setters, you

have your hardwood men, , and they

usually, , hardwood guys usually do a

little bit of laminate, so on and so

forth, but they really don't do tile.

And I've never really heard

yet of people that specialize.

In tile, but could do carpet if they had.

Those are, those are like two very

opposite ends of the spectrum.

Yeah.

It's so full.

Maybe I put you in a, , a more

fluid or flexible category, I guess.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's in regards to the surface that

you could have, that you could have us

install or help provide materials for,

we are very knowledgeable that because

we have hands on experience installing.

So, , it's, it's kind of cool

because it allows me to be, , the

measure guy at the salesperson.

The decorator, the installer, the

accountant, the, , the marketer,

the networker,, between the two

of us, we're able to conquer what

some store owners pay five to 10

different people to do even more.

, if they have numerous locations.

Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that gives you, that gives

you the ability to, to, , stay

small and get it all done.

Yeah.

Correct.

Yeah.

Because I would imagine that'll

become a ceiling of, for growth.

You'll have to, , , I feel like

I really have to get to the

point where I'm bored of it.

I think I've restricted myself

and it's almost intention.

I love doing it too much.

I'm not ready to just go around and

do quality control and, , measure

and estimate, , maybe you have

to wear more than a t shirt.

I don't know if I want to do all that yet.

, I don't care to look that important.

I still enjoy just being my

own employee at this point, and

I can always rely on myself.

What some family businesses do,

and I know we're, we kind of, we're

not off the family, but what, what

some businesses do is, is decide

on bringing in outside management.

, as they're growing, at some point,

they decide, I've got a friend

who, they, they had to do that.

And So, , as you're saying that I'm

thinking, well, one possibility is you

could find somebody that that loves

doing all that stuff and and put them in

charge, knowing that, , they're working

for you still and you're still in the

field and still doing, , doing the work.

Yeah, after the, there'd have to be

a lot of trust there because yeah,

doing the work now, now you need

really, , the eye of the owner on it.

I remember you mentioned before about

not, not only explaining or going

into detail into what it is that I

love about what I do, but what else

I could learn,, what else I could,

, that I would like to get out of it.

Which is, , in my mid 40s now, I mean,

that's something I think about every day.

How do I eventually progress?

We believed, Rachel and I, that

moving down here, not that it was

our main reason, because it wasn't.

It wasn't even in the top ten of

lists of importance, , things that we

wanted to accomplish when we got down

here, is there's a lot more down here.

It's a bigger city.

And where we're from, we felt like not

only could we get away from the people

that helped us grow to who we are today.

So we didn't have to

become their competitors.

I wouldn't want to compete with

friends or family, limit them.

Yes.

Restrict or limit or anything like that,

or negotiate against so separating myself

from the people that helped me get.

Here, which I love and thank all of

them because majority of them sent

me down here with very good, , very,

very nice referral, like two, three

page letter referrals, explained their

experience with me over long periods

of time, which was necessary when it

came to licensing and stuff like that.

Test for licensing.

They wanted you to have, , a lot of

referrals from well known people.

So they not only, , gave me opportunities

to build myself through their

companies, but sent me off with a

very nice farewell referrals as well.

So moving down here, Rachel and I

believe that we, we would be able to

take it to that next level and still do.

It's just synchronizing.

I guess my question and something that

I would love to learn is how, how do

you synchronize having enough work?

Where you can, this has been

the biggest thing for me and it

probably restricts a lot of people.

How do you get to the point where you

can synchronize having more than enough

work coming in, where you can guarantee

people that you're interviewing and

hiring at least a 40 hour week, right?

And there's always enough work for

in house people, Rachel and I have

had a few employees and still have

one as, as we speak right now, but

how do you attract enough other?

Reputable companies that want to work

with you, whether it be subcontracting

through you or just , conquering

larger projects like hotels, , we

used to do them up north and hotels.

There would be a handful of

us, , that we're helping.

Knock that hotel out over

a projected period of time.

So otherwise competitors that

were for this pro for that project

brought in and all working as a team.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There'd be like eight floors on a hotel.

So they put team a team B team C and

the team that finished first and passed.

Inspection would be able to move down

to four or five and so on and so forth.

What I mean?

And I always beat them

to the, to the lobby.

That's where all the state was

all the filet mignon, , the,

the floors, all the units.

We're just salad guys would like, , you

got those guys that like to smoke

off the, the open window area when

nobody's looking, they can hide

silly stuff that they got going on.

My focus was, if I get to two floors

done before they do I get the entire lot.

And that's where I really get to

showcase my talent is in lobby.

So I have.

I have infinite pictures of

hotel remodels that I've done.

Wow.

So yeah, you, I mean, I'm hearing,

you really think like an entrepreneur,

so we got to get to the family part.

Oh, you do.

Yeah.

I mean, you're, you're thinking like

a business owner and like Yeah.

Growth.

Growth.

Yeah.

So long, long term thinking.

, that's, that's, that's right.

I love to hear that.

Thank you.

So you work with your

uncle for years and years.

That was a family.

So there was family dynamics there.

What do you, so, , one of the

questions I like, what do you love

most about working with family?

I mean, I know the two of

you are working together.

Yeah.

How's that?

How does that?

How did you figure that out?

And and what do you love most about that?

And also about just having

worked with with family?

Well, basically your whole life.

Well, I know that coming from, like my

end, so it works well with the two of

us because we're on different spectrums.

He's good on the installation,

he knows how to do all that part.

And my background is

accounting and business.

So I've always worked for

the years doing bookkeeping.

And the business side of business.

So when we decided to come together,

it just made sense that we knew how

to operate the whole business between

the two of us, because we both had the

experience, a lot of bad, a lot of bad

days at the, at the job, , where you

come home and you settle in, you get

to sit down and have dinner and stuff.

And you look each other in the face

and say, , what point do we just

get up and do this for ourselves?

Why am I subcontracting?

And why are you working?

And being unappreciated by the

person that you're working for.

Yeah.

Because we kind of, , we know how

to do the, like I said, the whole

business aspect between the two of us.

So it made sense that eventually we would

really partner up and do it for ourselves.

I think one of the benefits working

together as a married couple, also in

being family, I think just the I don't

know if excitement is the word, but just.

Or being proud just that we're

accomplishing that as, , as a

family, you don't really get to share

that, , if you're just working in

an office with other people coming

home and, , being excited about

what you did or anything like that.

So with us, it's that you

can enjoy that together.

I think, I think for not only that,

it really, for me, I guess, maybe.

I'm not going to say as a father because

I don't, I don't want to, I'm not going

to say that Rachel doesn't feel the same

way, but no matter what we led by example

for our kids, no matter what they see it

every single day, they're witnessing it.

We're not talking about

it in front of them.

We're doing it.

And at the end of the day, if that's

all we leave, we leave is, , they'll

remember me and Rachel for that.

On top of probably a larger list

of things, they'll always be able

to say that their parents worked

really hard and they really tried

as hard as they possibly could.

I think too with that is that they

get to experience a lot of stuff.

Like, for instance, in the family,

like my father growing up, he owned a

plumbing HVAC company my whole life.

I did work for him back

in New York as well.

, doing some things for him because

he's a small business as well.

But just being able to experience

what it's like to own a business.

They see me on the phone at night.

, we, I talk to them about

what it really takes.

, being the difference between an

employee and what it takes to

actually like own a business.

And they get to see that all

the sacrifices you really

have to make for that.

Yeah.

I guess it takes a long time being

a really good follower before you

can be a really good leader too.

And that's something that we'll be

able to pass on to them is don't

think that anything can happen

overnight because it doesn't.

You have to struggle and you have to

encounter the trials and tribulations

of life and whatever it is that

you want to acquire as a career.

, along the way, it just everything that you

experience along the way builds character.

It's necessary to have really bad days and

really feel unappreciated and let down.

It really is.

That is so wise.

Oh my God.

Everybody wants instant everything.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Instant gratification.

We want to hit that easy button.

We want to do that.

That's why they're all in credit debt.

You know what I mean?

You don't want to save up

for anything anymore, man.

I got two years, no interest on this card.

Swipe it already.

And that becomes the mentality.

Are your kids interested

in, in the business at all?

Or have they shown signs or?

I mean, my daughter's artsy, but

unlike some, some parents in the

past, hope their kids take after them.

You know, all of that.

I've never been that.

I actually try to guide them

in, , to make better decisions

and not that I made bad decisions.

It's just, , I'm not a millionaire yet.

So somewhere along the lines, I

haven't made all the best decisions

because I am 44 years old.

So I like to encourage them to do

whatever it is that they want to do.

Yeah.

And then God forbid.

This could be a scapegoat for any

one of the kids, if not all of them.

And a lot of them have the, like

I, my artsy, the my art skills.

Mm-Hmm.

were passed on by my father.

My sister has it.

She owns her own fabulous cake

making business back in Rochester,

New York, where people call her.

And she's getting a hundred, 200.

sometimes a cake, , and it's

like, she loves doing it.

So, , my daughter, she's got that.

Well, yeah, but so she can see in the

example of the family, how art is a lot

more than just, , drawing or painting.

I mean, art can be.

In, in laying out a, a tile

floor and figuring out a pattern.

Art can be, , decorating, making cakes,

art, , it's, I guess in the H-V-A-C-I

mean, , if you were building, , just

laying out the duct work through a big

building that could be, , form of art.

Yeah.

Yeah.

You gotta, yeah, absolutely.

Ken.

Ken, you gotta really follow that

blueprint or everything can go wrong.

Like, I've had large warehouses

that I was tiling and it's like.

I have four or five different

doorways going down a hallway.

If I start installing my tile, once

I come around this way and go all the

way down that hallway and come back,

I got to tie back in back over here.

You miss by even a hair

and your roles are off.

So there's no room for

failure on some of these jobs.

You know what I mean?

Because you can read a blueprint

until you're blue in the face,

, you can stare and stare at it.

If you can't lay those dimensions

down and put that grid down

on the floor, it's over.

You might put, I, we know why I don't tile

I mean, you might, you might put

down a thousand feet, might put

down a thousand feet of material.

That's.

Go to tie back in and fail.

Oh my God.

It's something that I think of.

It's almost like a, like a

nightmare during the day.

. Yeah.

, on those larger projects.

But the crazy part about it is when I see

those projects, it's like I gotta have it.

You know what I mean?

And that's, that goes back to what we

were talking about earlier, , with the

daily challenges that just keep going

your head, oh my God, it's spend 10 hours.

, all I was thinking about was how I

need to get down that hallway and tie

it back in over here without missing.

And all of a sudden, 10 hours have gone.

I mean, you're, this is not about us, but

you're so in tune with what we, the way we

work, because we're, we're all about how

people think, and , how you're thinking

is, is working very effectively for you.

And the, , that idea of setting

yourself a challenge, they, , in, in

the learning industry, they call it

gamification, , trying to make somehow.

Make the learning of material putting

a gaming aspect into it, whether

it's earning points or, , setting

small achievements so that you're,

you're constantly competing against

yourself and, , kind of keeping

score in a, in a very positive way.

You know, it's, it, it makes,

it makes all the difference.

Like you're talking about, I've told

customers in there, , in their home,

as I'm trying to close a deal that

I see there, I see their project.

As an, as an art project for

me, it's, it's an art project.

It's a game that I'm going to be

there enjoying until it's finished.

It's a little bit more than just

finishing it at the time you need me

to finish it and getting it installed.

It's so much more than that.

And it'll show in the end, , and that's,

that alone is, is closes for me and

it's the sincere thing to say, , which

the best part for me is it's like,

I, I can't, I can't imagine how many

customers have probably looked me in

the face and thought maybe there's a

good chance that he's either a real

good salesman or he's blowing smoke.

You know, and I'm telling you, I've

had, and I've had those, I've had those

customers that want to put me to the

challenge too, you know what I mean?

Like, they're like, Oh yeah, we said

we were going to do this, but now

it's going to be on a diagonal and

it's going to have flowers and it's

going to be, and it's like, that's

not what we agreed upon, but okay.

All right.

I see where you're going with this.

You want to try and you want

to, you want me to put my foot

in my mouth is what you want.

You're going to love it.

Whether you like it or not.

Are you guys cultivating

relationships with architects?

Because I'm hearing the

stuff you're talking about.

That's the kind of stuff that

makes architects just, I want

to say, wet their pants, right?

They, they envision these

things that they, they probably

can't get somebody to do.

I mean, I did see one shower

that, , was incredibly complex.

And, and it, , the I

can't describe it all.

I can't remember it, but it

it really captured it was art.

I mean, it captured the idea of

waves and rain and and and then there

were pebbles in the in the base.

, it was it was brilliant and beautiful.

I know it was somebody a

lot of work to do that.

And I'm just thinking with

what you're describing.

It seems like architects, , getting

in there, getting in their head.

Yeah, because they are

the ones who do the work.

They are initially the decorator too.

So I've always had great relationships

with people like that back home because

they, I was one, , of, of others too,

that could see through their vision

through, , I could be the hands to

see out their vision and they can stay

all clean and dress nice, , keep their

heads in the books and everything.

I'm pointing out to you,

Rachel, is that, are you, are

you getting to know architects?

Is that what that meant?

We have not.

Not an architect.

Not architects in particular.

Designers.

Yeah.

Like designers in the construction,

, designers would be more up our

speed, I think, because they do

work with the clients and they do

make, , obviously they design stuff and

then we have to, , bring it to life.

So designers are good.

I haven't really thought about architects.

architecture in particular.

They're more on the building

side of it, like the framing.

Yeah, we'll eventually, we'll

eventually encounter them.

But that's a good, actually

look, I could look into that.

Actually, we worked with an architect.

We built a house with an architect

and I mean, he did, he did go

so far as to lay out the, in the

plans, the tile in our shower.

You know, he had these

little, , art look patterns.

Oh, I think you call them

returns or something like it.

There would be a basic pattern and then

a hint of that pattern somewhere else.

I mean, he was, yeah, he was

in charge of every detail.

There was no decorator involved.

Oh, no.

Yeah.

Okay.

That's interesting to know.

With all due respects to decorators,

if you have an architect.

Really don't need a doctor.

No disrespect to decorators because I

know you guys are going to say otherwise.

Yeah, it's a different level if you know,

it depends on what kind of architect too.

I don't want to disrespect any decorators.

And there's some that only

want to do the big picture.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, they're not is art, they're,

they're, they're book smart,

they're blueprint smart, they're

not, , necessary engineering smarts,

they're not Yeah, actual detail work.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess I that's

what I was thinking.

I guess I didn't realize that they did.

Oh, yeah, and I could say There's a

commercial and residential too, and

they may be Commercials gonna tend

to be a little more cookie cutter.

I think yeah, I'm I think I'm it is

commercial and the worst part about

commercial and it's why I try to stay

away from it is There's there's no

appreciation for quality Until the owner

wants to know why it looks like that.

Does that sum it all up?

Can you put everything that comes all

the meaning where everybody's throwing

each other under the bus and everything

that comes with what I just said,

basically in a nutshell, just broke

it down in one sentence where I've

got paragraphs, explaining what I mean

behind that and how I got to that theory.

There's and they're always in a hurry.

They're always in a hurry.

That might be really close to that.

The next question I had, which was, you

know, is there, is there something about

being in a family business that you

know now that you wish you'd known then?

Back in, you know, when you started?

I mean, I'll let Rachel touch on that.

know

how much, how hard it is to work for

her husband or with, that's not a joke.

I think we're in a different

dynamic back in New York.

You did technically work together in

a different aspect as in I wasn't full

on in the business back in New York.

When Eric decided to be a business

owner, so many years ago me doing

already what I did, , I took that

on, but I also had my own career and

he was already established there.

He knew people, everyone, , knew him.

So he didn't really have to, he

wasn't starting from scratch, right.

He just was.

Everything just came my way.

Stepping into the business itself.

But, already had all the

contacts in that stuff.

So coming down here to Florida,

once we paired up We had to

start all over in getting to...

Meet people and get, , clients really

and ourselves, not only start over,

but more than start over because I grew

up where I, where I was successful.

Yeah.

So, oh, you're Mike's nephew.

Oh yeah.

, and then you get that from the

distributors and now you're getting

that from the business owners.

And there were numerous places and

locations that he was contracting through.

So once he moved out of the

way and moved out of town.

I mean, it was just already

kind of there for me.

So we, moving here, we had to acquire

things that kind of were given.

And also having to work closer together

because now I have to, , back, back in

New York, he kind of handled everything.

I didn't.

Have really much I don't decision

making I would say I was just doing

the business side, but now I do deal.

I'm in the field now also dealing

with clients and talking to them.

So then now we have to

really work closer together.

As business owners together.

So I think that's been a different

dynamic for us, but I think we get along.

Everyone always says how I, I knew, I

met somebody and they actually knew a

client that we worked for and he had

said to, to this other person how well

we had worked together on the job site.

Like that was one of his

things and he had told me that.

And I think that's one thing for

us is that even, no matter how

things are at home or whatever in

our relationship, we always work

very well together and we never, we

never bring that To the job site.

So we really enjoy.

I think we enjoy working.

I definitely enjoy working.

Yeah.

So we, we were together before he decided

to be his own business owner, really.

Yeah.

Okay.

And me doing what I had done already.

It was an easy conversion for him.

He just looked at me and was like,

I want to own my own business.

So I knew what that meant for me.

So, yeah, so that meant for me.

You knew what you were

getting into right away.

Yeah.

I mean, I had already been

doing it for other people.

So I knew all the steps and

how to really do all that.

So the, the, the biggest switch for

me to become a, and I'll be quick on

this, cause I know this isn't one of

your questions, what made me convert

to the business owner was how many

times I took on a subcontract job in

which the customer would say that they

really didn't care for the salesperson.

Some of the stuff that the salesperson

had promised them, the measure guy or

the the estimator, , you're dealing

with too many different people.

Leading up to the installation and only

the installation and the person with

experience installing can really explain

how the install Installation is gonna

go and how well the material wears and

everything else a salesperson's knowledge

is only the knowledge that he's receiving

from a distributor A distributor is always

gonna talk something up vinyl plank the

vinyl plank that's flooring Flooring

that's been going in strong for like the

last 20 years The stuff they were telling

the people that were buying it 20 years

ago, how did they really know for sure?

How did they really know for

sure that it was waterproof or

whether it needed a vapor barrier

underneath it and so on and so forth.

So I was like, , these

customers never seemed to like.

Any of the experience, except for the

installation that I had been providing.

Let me see if I could do a better,

nice, nice customer experience.

I mean, that's what I'm hearing that

you guys are really focused on, on the

full customer experience end to end.

Yeah, that's a, that's also a, it sounds

like a differentiator for you guys.

Actually, we've, we've heard from

different people or just, we, , try and

relate to people just how a different

experience is with us because we are

in the beginning to the end , and I've

already done the majority of things

wrong too, just to show that I am humble.

That's a fact I tell, I tell people

that work for me all the time too.

Please just hear me out because

I've already done everything wrong.

, there's.

You, you learn by stumbling and struggling

sometimes, , so not just, not just my

experience with the customers and stuff.

I mean, the most exciting part for me

is that inside and out the flooring

business, I've experienced every single

position that would need to be had to run

a storefront, sell materials and labor.

The expectations of the customer,

the expectations of the salesperson,

everybody from top to bottom,

because I am now all of those.

So it's really cool to know,

, sometimes I do credit myself on that.

As you've really put

your time in every area.

I've even worked the backend, the

warehouse and helped load up other

installers for 13 months, one

time, just to do it for extra work.

So really cool job.

, you could sell, you could sell

flooring for 40 years and really

not know how to install it.

Sure.

Not know what it, , how it wears in

someone's home , outside of, , life

experience, yeah, because they're,

, even a, even a salesperson is a, is

a, is a customer sometimes in life.

Yeah.

Right.

So you know how to treat somebody because

you know what your expectations are.

If somebody promises you,

everything's going to go well and

everything's going to be beautiful.

You promised.

You know, so we'd like to follow

through with your promise.

Yeah, you take that seriously.

Yeah, we do.

Yeah.

Because it's your name on the business.

That's a, yeah, that's, that's one of

the challenges for family businesses.

I think is that , you've got that

founder like, like you, that, you know,

has done it, been there, it's their

name on it, and the challenge they face

is as they grow, or if they're going

to transition to the next generation,

they're, they're afraid that, , when

they, when they, , hand the reins over to

someone else, or, or they just grow and,

and, , put other people in the field,

that they're not going to be doing it,

and they're not going to be doing it.

No, I know, that's true.

But that training aspect and, and, , the

trusting and also letting people make

their own mistakes, that, that becomes

a real challenge for some people.

And I mean, I mean this, I mean this

with a hundred percent sincerity.

If you put the money that you could

potentially make off of a project on

the very bottom of the list and switch

the order of the thought, , like.

Most, , entrepreneurs or business owner,

I think from my experience working

under them, I think they sometimes put

money in the top three of top 10 for a

customer, for a consumer's experience.

Like, if that's what you're thinking

about most, it makes no sense to

even think about the money because

the money you can put last, because

as long as you cover everything

else that comes before the money.

The money's going to be there.

So why would you ever, during

any point in someone's project,

think about money at all?

It doesn't even make any sense.

It's a wasted thought.

You're thinking about something that

is going to be there, no matter what.

As long as you accomplish everything

else, from point A all the way down.

I told you it was going

to be a good experience.

I told you the price

was going to be right.

I told you it was insured.

I told you the installation

was going to be perfect.

I told you it was going to

be done in this many days.

When all of that stuff happens, they're

not only paying you what you initially

agreed upon, you're getting gift cards

to Publix, you're getting gas cards,

you're getting, oh my god, can you do my

daughter's entire inside of her house,

you're getting, you see what I mean?

Way more than money that you could have

made off that project just accomplish

everything else That's important to

the to the client first and then the

money comes naturally man You just

looks like you're reading my mind.

This is yeah, I like to say that

money is a side effect it's a natural

result of doing doing things the right

way Yeah doing it the right way and

doing it as best as you can the way

you explained it was gonna be Right,

, that's yeah, that's really important.

, you manage expectations, you create an

expectation, then you need to fulfill that

expectation promise that that sales thing

of, , over promising and yeah, . Yeah, I

mean, I would say one thing, yeah, benefit

from us is like when I people call, , I

explained to them, the estimator is

also, , our master installer, he's going

to be installing also, and people get

really enjoy that because they know that,

, they're getting frustrated, they're not

getting somebody who's just coming in.

And then later on, just

sending somebody in.

, and there's no communication and, , the

work isn't as good as they were expecting.

Yeah, I mean, it'd be like going

to a fancy restaurant and having

the, , the chef not only cook your

meal, but bring it and serve it to you.

, , another thing too is a lot of these

businesses, especially the ones that

demand half down, which is the majority

of business, it's just the way it is.

Sometimes they're trying to close you and

book you and schedule your installation.

And they, they can't guarantee that the

material is even going to be in on time.

So that ends up being the initial prop.

The first thing that affects the customer

negatively is that the salesperson,

cause he wants them to close and he

wants them to put half down today.

Cause that's part of what he's told

to do by the person above who's.

thinking about money all the time.

That's the first thing that goes wrong.

, they, Rachel, sometimes this is

a, for instance, Rachel sometimes

has some of these designers.

They send us blueprints

and stuff like that.

And they want to give, they

want me to give them a quote.

I'm not willing to give you a quote

based on, I can read the measurements.

I can read the blueprint.

No problem.

I might, I was an apprentice

to a technology grad.

So I learned how to read

blueprints without any schooling.

It was just given to me because he

appreciated me and I appreciated him.

I can, is it gonna be diagonal?

Are the pieces three by six

inch or are they 12 by 24 inch?

Are they, you know what I mean?

Are there, is there any inserts?

Are there, is there any detail?

We're we're visual people?

Is it glass?

Is it porcelain?

It's more of a visual person.

Is it cords?

A backsplash could be made out numerous.

Is it stone?

It could be made outta

numerous different materials.

That's one I need to walk through.

I need to see before I can be as fair

to the customers the customer deserves.

, to give them the best, best

estimate that I possibly could.

It's not only going to be fair to them,

but fair to me too, , because one thing I

don't do is, , agree to something and then

tell the customer later that , especially

if it's not something that's unforeseen,

if it's something that I should have,

if I would have done a walkthrough,

I would have noticed right away.

I would have been able to account for it.

I eat those things.

Those are the things where I don't

even mention it to the customer.

I just reach in my pocket, make it right.

And that's it.

But, , you can't

guarantee stuff like that.

If you're just looking at a blueprint and

shouting them out, an estimate, , over

the phone or through an email, yeah,

because those are, that's where it starts.

That's where the headache starts.

That's where your five stars goes

to four and then three and so

on and so forth because you're

just putting the money up here.

, all you want is you

just want them to close.

You don't know when they're going

to get that material from Asia, but

as long as they give me half today.

We're in business, right?

Okay.

So advice that you would give

others, family businesses, small

businesses, it sounds like number one

is, , don't put the money first thing.

Don't think about the money.

Think about the customer experience.

Yeah.

What, what don't over

promise, , don't get in a hurry.

Maybe is that, is that another one?

Don't rush it by don't rush into the deal.

No, if someone that's selling

high end installation.

Isn't capable of knowing when they

can go fast and when they can go slow.

They don't have enough experience.

There's moments when you're installing

Tile where you can go really fast.

And then there's times when you have to

slow down or you're going to cut yourself,

you're going to make more mistakes,

you're going to start wasting material

because you're making mistakes and because

you're now frustrated because you were,

which all stems from going too fast.

I'm telling you when I got something

planned on a Friday or something

like that, especially when I was

younger, when I actually used to

have a lot of fun on Friday and

Saturday before I was raising kids.

Not that I don't love and , movie

nights and stuff like that.

Cause I do.

But I mean, when I was

young, , when it was beer 30.

, cut my finger, shoot myself with a

Brad now all the time at like three,

four o'clock in the afternoon.

Why?

Because I'm in a hurry, which also, , like

I said, I've already done everything

wrong, young man, slow down, you're going

to shoot yourself with that Brad now.

Definitely going fast.

Never, never, never

helps the project at all.

I think too, one thing that's big to

working with family, that's a little

bit harder than working with people

that, , that you're just coworkers

with and setting boundaries, as

everybody knows, , have managing

expectations on what one person

does and what the other person does.

And kind of just, and also collaborating,

like we always talk about, just

making sure that everyone has.

Some input, I guess, like Eric's,

like, we're very clear on like what our

expectations are, like what he's good

at and what it is that I'm good at.

Okay.

I want to, I want to dig in

on that just a little bit.

Cause I, this is, this is a key you, you

said everybody knows and yeah, everybody

knows that in families, boundaries tend

to get lax or not, they're not, they're

not respected and so everybody knows that.

So it's obvious, but

what's not obvious is.

What do you do about it?

How do you overcome that?

And I'll just live with, , the, the,

the frustrations and the problem

getting bigger and bigger and bigger.

So what's, what's a key that

you could share about how you

guys keep the boundary, set the

boundaries and keep them clear.

Yeah, I know for us, we

know what we're good at.

I don't try and tell him in any

way, shape, or form like what to

do or how to do it or think that I

have a great idea because I don't

know, like that's his experience.

So, and same thing him with me

like, , he doesn't micromanage

like my experience and what I do.

So I think just, just letting the

people who are good at what they do

in the business because everybody has

their, , a little specialty or whatever

it is, just letting them really take

charge of what it is that they do.

I mean, I don't know, it might be

different dynamics depending on like

what type of business it is or kind of

like what everybody's experience is.

But for us in particular, we're just,

it's very clear what our roles and like

what we know and what we don't know and we

don't try and just overstep that I think.

I think you just hit on a principle.

I mean, yeah, the details are going

to be different, different businesses,

but I think the principle of going

with your strengths, knowing your

strengths or finding people's

strengths and then letting them work

to their strengths and not trying to

make them overcome their weaknesses.

Yeah.

Huge.

And I think that principle is

applicable just about everywhere.

Yeah.

I think too though, having to, like

I have worked, , we've both worked

with family before, but we don't

have the dynamic where we have

somebody who really wants to try and

like be the boss of everybody else.

So, that gets a little hairy,

I know, and as I've experienced

before, but, that doesn't really,

we don't have that dynamic.

I think, I think, I think I make it

easy because I know I need her help.

And I need to make her miserable.

That's really not going to make any sense.

I need her.

She needs me to do the installation

and do a good job because she's

continuously building us up

as good quality installation.

So if I don't continue to provide

good quality installation.

It's not making her job.

It's making her out to be a liar.

, it's making her job, , so she

doesn't ruffle my feathers.

I don't ruffle hers because it's not

gonna benefit us in any kind of way.

Well, it's working because I had

a floor contractor that I met in a

networking group, , tell me, Basically

a competitor of yours in a way, but

tell me that you are, , true artists.

I mean, it's just, it's

really high quality work.

So, I mean, that's, by

another , person in your field.

Yeah.

That's, that's, you're doing something.

Eric's amazing.

And that's one reason it makes it

easier for me to go out there and

promote him is because I know he's doing

such a good job and I totally trust.

Has capabilities and, , what he,

what he can, what he can provide.

So I, I think it's, I drive to get

stuff perfect, even stuff that's not

going to turn out perfect no matter

how hard I try, I just don't know

when to leave well enough alone.

I really don't like you and gosh,

we're going to, we're going to

need to wrap this up, but I know.

Yes, sir.

I'm looking forward to

getting to know you more.

But it sounds like you have learned to

apply perfectionism intentionally where,

where it fits and where it's effective and

not in all areas of your life and isn't.

isn't necessary and isn't reasonable.

Yeah.

No, I think that's true.

Coming, coming, as I call myself

a recovering perfectionist.

Yeah, you can spot that.

Yeah, I've got a lot of

recovering yet to do.

, it's, , what really does stink though,

the honest truth is I don't know that

any perfectionists, I mean, unless

they're athletes or musicians, really

ever become wealthy because honestly,

I would need at least 10 of me.

10 people that think just like me

and love it as much as I do to really

be able to, to grow and expand in

a way where I would acquire wealth.

So I have wealth in family

and I have wealth in pride.

And yes, and that is part.

Wealth is not just money.

I mean, that's another whole thing.

But yeah, the debt lets us retire though.

Our kids, the better college

is, it lets us afford this gas.

Yes,

yes, it's, it's, it's

money and, and, and yeah.

Yeah.

Well, so so we can maybe have

somebody that wants to, that thinks

like you, find you and reach you.

How can people who are listening

to this podcast or watching this

video how can they find you?

Where do you like to be found?

I know you have a Facebook page, right?

We do have a Facebook page.

It is our business artistic flooring

and tile LLC, and we are actually

currently building our website.

So that will be coming soon.

Yeah, or they can call me.

We do post everything on Facebook so

they can take a look at a lot of years

of experience and everything that's

on there, Eric has personally built.

So it's, yeah, so that

that's your portfolio.

That's your for now.

It's your website.

That's right.

And we don't we don't we don't

necessarily need, , employees either.

, anybody that hears this podcast,

it feels the way I do by all

means, please reach out to us.

I'm sure that we can come up to

some, , some, some sort of negotiation

that'll make both parties happy.

They don't have to work for me, but

they could, maybe I can help them fill

some voids in their yearly schedule.

And, and, and vice versa.

Yeah.

Collaboration.

I love it.

Collaboration, yeah.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

I love it.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for

spending this time with us.

This Yeah.

Thank y'all opportunity to let us, let

us our, and we hope to get to do this

again on another area absolutely.

I was just getting warmed up.

All right.

I haven't even cracked the surface.

This is me with a headache.

Can you imagine?

I didn't see that coming yet.

Could you imagine if I had a

cerveza or something like that?

We'd be here all night.

You'd be like, Eric, it's over.

Yeah.

They're like, it's bedtime.

It's eight o'clock.

Thank you guys very much.

Thanks again.

Oh, thank you.