Shownotes
In this episode of Common Sense Ohio, the hosts, Norm Murdock, Steve Palmer, and Brett Johnson, embark on a wide-ranging discussion covering topics such as politics, government intervention, historical events, ethical considerations, and personal reflections. The episode is filled with predictions for the upcoming year, criticisms of government decisions, and heartfelt discussions about moral and ethical dilemmas.
Norm predicts a major stock market correction in 2024 and provides insights into adjusting his investments to prepare for this event. He also discusses his beliefs about the potential impeachment of President Biden and the re-election of former President Trump, foreseeing election-related violence. The hosts delve into the political landscape, expressing frustration with the lack of viable candidates and speculating on potential new Democratic contenders.
Brett and Steve add their predictions for the new year as well. From a wild-card winning the DNC presidential ticket to robot doctors.
The episode covers a wide array of historical events, ranging from World War II discussions on bombing strategies and ethical considerations to General Eisenhower's order to avoid attacking historic monuments. The hosts highlight the importance of understanding history and maintaining a balance between preserving historical sites and operational needs during wartime.
The conversation also touches on recent legislative developments in Ohio, such as bills related to transgender rights, fuel type freedom, and public utilities.
Furthermore, the hosts reflect on personal and ethical themes, including the importance of love and empathy towards others, the impact of small acts of kindness, and the complexities of parental decision-making. They also discuss the role of government intervention in parental decisions, such as homeschooling, vaccinations, and gender identity, and its potential unintended consequences.
Throughout the episode, the hosts maintain their commitment to providing balanced perspectives and common sense in their discussions, emphasizing the importance of understanding different viewpoints and approaching issues with empathy. They share personal experiences, predictions for the future, and reflections on various societal and political issues.
Overall, the episode offers a thought-provoking journey through a diverse range of topics, using historical context, political analysis, and personal reflections to explore the complexities of contemporary issues facing Ohio and the broader national landscape.
Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.
Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.
Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.
Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.
info@commonsenseohioshow.com
Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio
Transcripts
Alright. Here we are. Last show of the year 2023, drawing quickly to a close at Common Sense Ohio common sense ohio show .com, brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. Why do we keep talking about Harper Plus? Well, of course, it's because we're brought to you by Harper Plus Accounting. They are our accountants. They could be yours. Glenn Harper was in. If you got wanna get to know why he's, he sponsors the show and what they're up to over there, go check out a past episode where we actually interviewed Glenn Harper, the founder of Harbor Plus Accounting, where they will do your taxes and much, much more.
Steve Palmer [:So those of you who are, facing the wrath of uncle Sam this year as I did. He can he being a Harper plus could take the sting out of it just a little because then you know it's coming. It's like, is it better to get the surprise that you owe money, or is it better to plan for it and have the money and then feel the sting of only writing the check, but at least being able to sleep the next night knowing that you were able to write the check. And that's all about planning, and that's what they do over there. So enough of that. Here we are at the beginning at the end, rather, of the year. Lots of stuff happened this year. We've covered a good chunk of it.
Steve Palmer [:It's our 1st full year, guys?
Brett Johnson [:It is, isn't it? Yeah. I just thought about that.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. 1st of
Brett Johnson [:all year. Common Sense Ohio. Yeah. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:You know, a lot happened this year for us, the website common sense ohio show.com, the domain. Now we're on video. We've got, T shirts.
Norm Murdock [:You
Steve Palmer [:know, you know you're real when all that happens, and that's Right. You know, that's what's happened here. So, we're looking forward to another year of bringing you Common Sense. And, you know, I guess just to recap, why Common Sense Ohio? Well, because, you know, we like to come at you right from the middle, as I like to say. Meaning, you know, it bend a little right by some standards, but we are in the middle. We try to be in the middle because I think one thing that comes from the middle, not only Ohio, which is the heart of it all as it says in the logo, but, you know, it seems like Ohio has sort of a commonsensical viewpoint of the world. You know, you've got cities, you've got farm fields, you've got, the quote elite academics. And then you've got the, the people who are more salt of the earth.
Steve Palmer [:You so you've got a nice mix, and it's a it's a good way to sort of, take a perspective and look at the country. And, you know, if there's one thing I grew up with on the country, Sunbury, Ohio, was common sense. It didn't always seem to make sense at the time, but looking back, That was a very common sense way to live, and I have liked to bridge the gap between, you know, the the the sort of elite academic world and and the real world, and that's what we try to do here on the show. So, that that's why we do
Norm Murdock [:it. Yeah. For sure, man.
Steve Palmer [:You know, every every
Norm Murdock [:And because we love everybody.
Steve Palmer [:And we do well, Norm loves everybody. I try to love everybody. I I've tried to actually, believe it or not, in the last year, I've tried to incorporate that into my, personnel. And that's why I word it into my into my worldview. Yeah. Where And
Brett Johnson [:it's funny you say that I did too. You since he's brought that up almost every time, I was like, Yeah. Just start there.
Norm Murdock [:It's not easy. It is not easy.
Steve Palmer [:And and you have to understand the difference between love and like. Yeah. Just because you love everybody. The like, maybe the best way to like, my way to look at it, and, normally, I'll let you explain it. But it it I, you know, I'm not shy about the fact that I become a Christian, and I do believe in those ideals. And I think we're all God's children. And, you know, for that reason, we all have we start with the same, flaws in the same human existence. And and for that, you know, how can you not love one of your brothers in in God?
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It doesn't mean, though, that you have to like uncle Charlie. No. And it doesn't mean you have to spend time with uncle Charlie.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. Like, liking is different than love,
Steve Palmer [:for sure. Use uncle Charlie as we go into the holiday or come out of the holiday season rather. It's like, you know, there's all those people you sort of cringe when you have to see them. It doesn't mean you don't love them. Just means you don't wanna hang around with them.
Norm Murdock [:You know, I talked about this. So I have had on my personal Facebook page, I have had a a little, Blurb that for the holiday week because I don't wanna I don't I I did I wanted to take a break from Facebook for a week. So I put up something about, love on on, you know, loving everybody, and it, you know, made it Tried to make it a little bit, you know, funny, but also serious. And, you know, the admonishment that Jesus gave, for those of us who believe in Jesus, and you don't have to, but his admonishment to love your enemies. Mhmm.
Brett Johnson [:I mean,
Norm Murdock [:you know, like, he went way beyond, like, just love love people you don't know, love people in countries you'll never go to, Love people that you're not related to. Man, he he he went through the ultimate. Mhmm. Love your enemies.
Steve Palmer [:And maybe not for them. This is this is sort of the interesting part. And, look, maybe I'm reading too much into into the teaching, into the gospel, but it's not necessarily for them, the the the quote them, the other people that you don't even know or maybe the person that you actually think you hate. It's for you. It cleanses your soul a little bit to
Norm Murdock [:It does.
Steve Palmer [:To leave the It does. The hate behind For sure, Steve. And say, you know Yeah. I don't wanna be around you. I'm gonna I'm gonna steer clear of you in everything I do. I don't trust you perhaps or, you know, I got burned by you in a business deal, so now I'm never doing that again. It doesn't mean that I don't love and appreciate, you know, the fact that you are part of this world, part of, God's world. And and, you know, it it it just it just relieves all that stress and anxiety within your soul.
Steve Palmer [:You know? It's like It really does. I don't have to hate you anymore.
Norm Murdock [:Really does. Right. And then you start also Kinda like looking for besides the self serving thing, which is totally important. It's totally important to To to have a balance inside your soul. Like, right? I mean
Steve Palmer [:Well, don't feel guilty about it. If it makes you feel good to release it, that's okay.
Norm Murdock [:Exactly. Don't
Steve Palmer [:feel guilty about that.
Norm Murdock [:But But you also if you adopt the attitude that you love other people regardless of how Horribly, they may have treated you or other people, then you because they're God's children. Right? So then you start looking for little little bits and pieces that sort of redeem those people. Like like, you know, because your heart's opened up to the possibility that maybe you're not so damn perfect yourself, And maybe you don't know everything about them.
Steve Palmer [:Or how they got to that spot. Or how
Brett Johnson [:they got to that spot. That's exactly right. That's what was their
Steve Palmer [:What was their journey that brought them to that place that they're so bad right now, or at least in your eyes, they're so bad?
Norm Murdock [:And and
Steve Palmer [:like you said, Norm, maybe you reevaluate what your own eyes are seeing a little bit.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And, you might have a little bit different perspective on it. And and, you know, if you think you're so perfect, then look in the mirror.
Norm Murdock [:Yep. Yep. Yep. I mean, So I can despise the policies of the Biden administration or Nancy Pelosi I
Steve Palmer [:mean, except for Pelosi and Biden, anything.
Norm Murdock [:Or some of the crap that, you know, I've got with The wine this week, he's driving me crazy again. But I don't hate those people. I don't hate them.
Steve Palmer [:It takes so much negative energy.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And I don't hate those. And, you know, you might say that it's selfish to for instance, giving. Why do people give? You know? You and, you know, I struggle with this, frankly, until I I started to until I became until I came to faith. I struggle with this. Like, I only give to people because it makes me feel good, and that's sort of selfish anyway. Why can't I just give to people because I wanna help them?
Norm Murdock [:But it's the first step. But That's okay.
Steve Palmer [:Can't have one without the other.
Brett Johnson [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And it's perfectly okay to feel good about giving. I mean, why wouldn't it? It feels good for a reason. It's like taking a warm shower. And so you don't feel guilty. If feels good, you do it. I mean, if you overdo anything, obviously, it becomes bad. But Sure. It's like you don't, if it didn't feel good, it wouldn't be right.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. We we, my family has, helped put together sack lunches for, the homeless for years, anyway. But to go to this the point you're making so one time, my daughter was having a really bad day when she was in high school and say, hey. Can I come along, help with sack lunches? And so I was like, yeah. You're always welcome to. You know? And then we typically did with the family. So she came helped. I took the sandwiches down to basically, it's a shelter called Friends of the Homeless.
Brett Johnson [:And we start unloading the sandwiches. And these sandwiches are for these guys, so they don't have to buy lunch the next day. They're going to work. They just don't have a a home, And they can save a few bucks. Yeah. So we start unloading, and one of the guy they always have guys coming up and help you unload. And he comes up, and he says, You know, I really appreciate you guys doing this. And one day, I'm gonna do this as well too.
Brett Johnson [:I'm gonna make lunches.
Steve Palmer [:Right. So look at the impact that I had.
Brett Johnson [:Changed Her whole day. She was having a horrible day.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. And we were
Brett Johnson [:driving home. She says, dad, that really made a difference.
Steve Palmer [:It makes a difference. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:It does. That. He didn't have to say that.
Steve Palmer [:Right. But he did.
Brett Johnson [:But he did.
Steve Palmer [:And those are the things that make you And
Brett Johnson [:I believed him.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Those are the things that make you start believing. Those are those are the kind of things in life that led me to faith. Yeah. Because, you know, it's like you you sort of wondered, like, what is like how does that happen? And and what's Yeah. If you just think of the string of events coincidentally came together to make that guy's day that much better Mhmm. And then make your daughter feel that much better. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:It it's, it's not part. It's just an it's the act of doing it Right. That makes you feel better. And, you know, it's, sometimes just a little drop of faith like that, a little a little a little something can can change not only your world, but everybody else's. So with that, we'll we'll Yeah. We'll sort of move on, I suppose. But, you know, every every week, we've been coming at you. I don't know if we've been doing this, what, 7 weeks about World War 2.
Steve Palmer [:And, I look up I I don't know this history off the top of my head, folks. So believe it or not, I don't have the encyclopedia in my head what happened in on December 29, 2023 in World War 2 history. But, fortunately, we have this thing called the Internet. And, interestingly, today, I ran into some into some discrepancies in the Internet. Imagine that. It won't there were some inconsistencies. But one thing that did happen for sure is that 1940, the Luftwaffe raid on London, caused 1500 fires. This is called the 2nd great fire of London.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, we talked a little bit about this, about the raids on, London, and and and firebombing cities, and how that all sort of, evolved in World War 2. And I think it's relevant for today's history. You know, those who don't study history are doomed to repeat it. And people are sort of talking about this kind of stuff happening, in the in the current conflict with Israel and Hamas or whatever. But what was interesting about it is I scrolled down to 1943, 3 years after that. We had the allies had engaged in a similar pattern where we were bombing, Berlin, and other cities. And in this particular situation, we're, we're gonna talk about cities in Italy. And Eisenhower had something to say about this, And this sort of, relates a little bit back to the monument discussion we had, and I saw Brett, you you had sort of a nice description of that in the Facebook and I guess, but general Eisenhower orders allied commanders to, as far as possible, avoid attacking historic monuments in Italy.
Steve Palmer [:Today, we are fighting in a country which has contributed to a great deal to our cultural inheritance, Eisenhower wrote. We are bound to respect those monuments so far as were as war allows. If we have to choose between destroying a famous building and sacrificing our own men, then our men's lives count infinitely more, and the buildings must go. But the choice is not always so clear cut as that is. And in many cases, the monument can be spared without any detriment to operational needs. You know, so 4 years after this, you know, it it we still had this sort of understanding as allies of the importance of western civilization, because Italy in large part is is the basis of western civilization or at least a a huge part of it. Mhmm. And it it it made me think a little bit about this that, we had the wherewithal to preserve that in the face of things like the Vichy government who had by then created, the Council on Jewish Affairs and cooperated with the Nazis to, to help round up the Jews and send them off to extermination camps.
Steve Palmer [:You know, it's like, we didn't just go in and say, we're gonna do we're gonna burn your very existence and take down your your country and burn it to the root. We're gonna we're gonna try to preserve the history, the good history
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And do away with the the bad conduct that's going on now. And, you know, there's redemption in that a little bit. Maybe I've made made more maybe I've I have a tendency to do this. I draw parallels to it. I always say I've got, like, 5 movies playing in my head at any given time, and I'm looking for ways that they they fit together. But I think this does fit together in some way. You know, you've got this idea that we have to firebomb cities and kill civilians and go through all this. But in the midst of all that, are the allied commander Eisenhower issues an order.
Steve Palmer [:You know what? Hey. Let's try to preserve the history here too a little bit. You know?
Brett Johnson [:You imagine how difficult a surgical attack is.
Steve Palmer [:Especially with that technology.
Brett Johnson [:Oh my gosh.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. They were just what we call today dumb bombs. Right. Right. It's just gravity and the trajectory And speed at an altitude than they were.
Brett Johnson [:And they did fantastic with what they had, but boy, talk about if you're
Norm Murdock [:Well, they did okay.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Brett Johnson [:You know?
Steve Palmer [:But it they they cared, maybe. Right. To some extent, they cared.
Norm Murdock [:To some extent, I mean, you know, it's ironic that in I mean, what facilitated the, Rome being declared, for example, an open city was a surrender by the Italian government. Then the Germans, of course, like, you know, said, well, you could surrender, but we're staying.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. We're gonna stay anyway.
Norm Murdock [:And and then in, you know, Hitler wanted Paris burned to the ground, and he ordered his general in charge of Paris to do that and, actually kept tell tellixing him, hey. Have have you have you started burning, you know, like, the Louvre? You know, Napoleon's monuments. Like, I I want it all bulldozed. I want it all burned, and he never did that. And he negotiated with, the allies, you know, for as as orderly as you could do that, You know, some people say that's to his credit, that particular general, that he totally disobeyed Hitler, could not imagine burning Paris To the ground.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And I I made a mistake. I well, I did make a mistake. I didn't bridge the gap because I jumped from Italy to the Vichy government. But the point was, we were it it it was the same in France. You know? We didn't decide that we're gonna take down You know, it just But
Norm Murdock [:we did bomb Monte Cassino. We did bomb Dresden. Dresden was a beautiful historic city.
Steve Palmer [:Norm, don't ruin my point.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. I'm just saying It's complex. Right?
Steve Palmer [:It is complex.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. I mean, you know, it it it it just is. And, you know, of course, You know, so many people throw back the use of the atom bomb, that we used twice in World War 2 to, say, well, you know, gosh, if if you can annihilate all those citizens and and and you feel justified doing that, then why can't we bomb all the people in the, you know, in Gaza? Yeah. Right? Along the same lines that, yes, it's a small group of people that wanna destroy Israel Just like it was a small group of Japanese elites that wanted to just you know? Right. Yeah. You know, same kinda logic.
Steve Palmer [:Maybe maybe what what what struck me here is that it was a consideration that they grappled with. So there's there's this there's this morality that they were grappling with. You know? It's like That's True. And and That's true. And the other thing that was important or that that sort of struck me is we didn't go in and just level it, on purpose anyway for the sake of doing it because of because of, Italy's, alliance with the Nazis. Right. You know, and and, you know, there there's many arguments you could have made at the time, like, f those guys.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, sure.
Steve Palmer [:You know? Let's let's just let's flatten them and get rid of them all. Yeah. But, you know, we didn't do that. And I think it's there like I said, there's some redemption in there, and maybe there's a lesson there for everybody to learn about United States of America.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. A lot of they have
Brett Johnson [:a lot of Italians in in that that were fighting
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. In the war.
Brett Johnson [:I mean, you know, United States, but Italian heritage.
Steve Palmer [:Such an interesting Maybe just
Brett Johnson [:a gen just a generation removed.
Norm Murdock [:And and in the Ikes you know, in the case of Monte decision.
Steve Palmer [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:If they didn't bomb that monastery that, you know, dated, I don't know, what a 1000 years or 800 years or whatever it was, They didn't they didn't bomb it just to bomb it. Right? They bombed it because it had a commanding overview.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It was it was a tactical pull position against position.
Norm Murdock [:And and the Germans had, forward observers up there. Literally had the high ground. They're artillery.
Steve Palmer [:They literally had the high ground, and they were using it against us. So we had, you know, we had to take that out. But I don't think we would have taken it out just to take it out.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. I And and and there was warning given. And, I mean, they did some things to try to ameliorate the human loss of life when they did do it.
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Anyway Yeah. So that's,
Norm Murdock [:that's a great great one, Steve. Yeah. That's a great one.
Steve Palmer [:We'll try to make a little bit out of a a day in history that, you know, it wasn't like we have a d day, you know, every day in world war well, there there's still a lot of cool history to be had.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right? And and and so true that, You know, at least in the case of the allies, they understood there was a moral question, and that's what I like about the example that you brought up
Steve Palmer [:today. Yeah. There there's a that
Norm Murdock [:it you you They grappled with it. They weren't they grappled with it. It wasn't just and and dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. I mean, they had moral discussions before they did it.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And and, you know, it was a it was a very difficult decision. So those who today claimed to have the moral high ground to say, we need we can wipe out all of our monuments. We can wipe out all these guys from existence, and we can wipe them out because they did something bad in their lives. Right. You know, on a on a larger level, there's a parallel there that we decided not to wipe out entire countries who did things that were bad. We, in fact, you know, we preserved Germany the best we could.
Norm Murdock [:Well, So good
Steve Palmer [:foolishly gave half of it to the to the Soviets.
Norm Murdock [:So some of this revisionism, like, they built a monument somewhere probably at an RAF base, right, to bomber Harris, was unfortunately, has become what he was known. The guy in charge of the bomber Flotilla of the RAF was, Arthur Harris, and he's since become known as bomber Harris. And there was a monument built to him. They of course, they had to take that down.
Steve Palmer [:Oh, of course.
Norm Murdock [:Because looking back now, you know, right, he's a monster. But everything he did had Churchill's and Ike's, you know, seal of approval. It's like, yes. This is an unlimited war. You're gonna bomb at night. The the Americans are gonna bomb during the day.
Steve Palmer [:Right. Imagine that too. You can talk about that history someday.
Norm Murdock [:And we're doing 24 hour, You know? Like like, Germany never gets a break, and we're just gonna bomb the living crap out of every factory and even civilians, you know, because we're inflicting terror because we want them to quit the war.
Steve Palmer [:Right. We want them to win. Yep. That's right. In the midst of it, we were still concerned about these kind of historical targets. Right. Mhmm. So here in 1943.
Steve Palmer [:Now now it's probably important to note Yeah. That we're talking about 1943. You know, we weren't talking about 1940, 41 Right. Where they probably cared a little bit less about those things because their very lives were still you know, they were still getting bombed in London.
Brett Johnson [:Yes. Right. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And then, you know, we eventually won the war, the the War of Britain.
Norm Murdock [:It is interesting
Steve Palmer [:to note, though,
Norm Murdock [:until the Germans made that navigation error and bombed London, the RAF had not bombed civilian
Steve Palmer [:targets Not on purpose. Not on purpose.
Norm Murdock [:Not on purpose.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Not on
Norm Murdock [:purpose. So it's like, well, as soon as you ratchet that up, boy, you
Steve Palmer [:know side comes over.
Norm Murdock [:Literally, you reap the whirlwind.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm. Yeah. Yep. Jeez.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Well, let's shift to the news, Norm. What you got?
Norm Murdock [:Well, boy.
Steve Palmer [:He's got note DeWine. Everybody gets to see his paper chase now.
Brett Johnson [:I think he's gonna have
Norm Murdock [:to give a
Brett Johnson [:new notebook for 24.
Norm Murdock [:So governor DeWine is going to announce today, and he may have done it already. It's 8:8:20 as we are taping this. But governor DeWine is supposed to have a press conference today to announce how he is going to either veto or sign House Bill 68. What is House Bill 68? It was overwhelmingly passed by, the Ohio General Assembly, called the Save Adolescents from experimentation bill. That's one part of the act. The second part of the act is Save Women's Sports Act. So what these are both about is, trans, patients, trans people, Transsexuals, that in the first case, with the experimentation, so called experimentation, it would, if governor DeWine signs it. Ban, trans operations, hormones, drugs, puberty blockers for minors, not for adults, but for minors.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm. Ohio would join about 20 other states having that kind of a law. The second part is to ban trans men or what they call, I guess, trans girls, trans women, but they're biological men from participating in female sports, and it requires Ohio schools to designate, teams by biological sex. So it it will it it it forces Ohio schools to say that the girls' volleyball team is for biological girls.
Steve Palmer [:Is does this plot up I can't talk today. Does this apply both to public and private universities?
Norm Murdock [:It does. Yeah. To any school.
Steve Palmer [:To any school. Right.
Norm Murdock [:And there are 2 exceptions in in this bill that are just to get those out of the way. Minors who are in the midst of transitioning now are not prohibited from completing. Because if they're halfway through, let's say, their bodies might be Shocked or or something. I don't know. But if if they're halfway down the road or partway down the road, this bill does not prohibit them from, Or their parents from complete.
Steve Palmer [:Well, let's let's talk this through. Because, look, as a first, let me just throw it out there. I think you are insane if you're if you're a parent and you're doing this to your kids. I I I think that is utter insanity. Now look. Am I calling you? I still love you. Yep. Right.
Steve Palmer [:I think that is insanity. Yep. On the other hand, but what I hate more what I would hate more is, like, what California and other Dates have done. I don't know exactly who is engaged in this, where they will the the government will actually step in in loco parente and in place of the parents and actually not tell mom and dad that this stuff is going on. And, you know, where the it started as they would name they would, use different names for children when they're in school without telling mom and dad they're doing it. So they're sort of encouraging it at the school level
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Steve Palmer [:And the government level and sort of in in usurping the role of the parents into the gov and taking it back for the government. Right. I find that reprehensible. I mean, I find that evil.
Norm Murdock [:Because you're denying parents
Steve Palmer [:Correct.
Norm Murdock [:Any role?
Steve Palmer [:But what if you're the parent? So now I wanna go down a rabbit hole here. What if I'm the parent, and I really wanna do this to my kids?
Norm Murdock [:So there is one other exception I should get to because it will involve this
Steve Palmer [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:This very topic. So for children that are born I wanna use the right term. If they're born with an intersex mutation abnormality.
Steve Palmer [:Like the one in whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Mhmm. So
Steve Palmer [:But beyond that, what if what if I
Norm Murdock [:So this this, would permit treatment for that. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:But but beyond that beyond that. So do I ever write as a parent to assist my child in changing whatever they change. I can't I'm not gonna say the change of gender because I don't think that's possible, but engaging in this sort of stuff. Yeah. And I guess, the the converse and maybe the better question is, what's the government's right to stop me from doing it? Because the same power that takes the authority away from me is now taking the authority away from me as a parent to do the other thing.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:So I struggle with stuff like this. You know? On the one hand, I agree with the outcome. You know? I I think it's insanity for parents to do this, but I also question the power of the government to stop a parent from doing this Yeah. In a private setting. Now you can I I'm totally gonna I'm talking about specifically hormone blocker surgeries, things like that? Now if I have to pay for it, I got a problem with it. You know? If if they're using taxpayer money, and funding it through whatever subsidized health care there is, I got a huge problem with it. Same as I have a huge problem with the government funding abortion.
Brett Johnson [:If you make the choice, and then you feel it's best for your child, you should be the the expense should be borne on you Right.
Steve Palmer [:Your parents. If I'm if I wanna go if I'm a woman and I wanna get a breast augmentation, well, fine. If you if you wanna take that risk and go through all the procedures and have elective surgeries like this. Right. Pull out your pocketbook, write the check. And, you know, I I I don't know. Now you you could delve into the medical ethics, but that's not governmental problem. You know? Is it first do no harm with the doctors doing this? Should a doctor be doing it? That's a different question.
Steve Palmer [:Should the government telling a doctor should a government tell a doctor that he or she cannot do it, there's where I struggle. And I I don't I I I don't have an answer. I'm just pointing out what I struggle with.
Norm Murdock [:I have a pretty good answer.
Steve Palmer [:Right?
Norm Murdock [:Okay. So the AMA and the American Academy of Pediatrics are both saying that gender transformation for minors, should be allowed. Now that is a big change right from their traditional point of view.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That that that to me is not worth the paper to run on because I think that's a captured organization.
Norm Murdock [:To justify this, a spokesman for the Ohio branch of the Academy of Pediatrics is quoted in the media as saying that physicians don't do this lightly, that they have long protracted interviews and conversations with the patient. So where I'm going, Steve and Brad, is How do you do that with a a child? How do you how do you have an adult discussion about a permanent changed
Steve Palmer [:Sure.
Norm Murdock [:To their body as in, you know, organ transplants or organ removal.
Steve Palmer [:No. I got you.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. With a with They,
Steve Palmer [:let's continue. What about isms here, though. You know? What about a situation where you wanna get your kid a tattoo? Or what about a situation where you wanna pierce your child's ears. What about a like, where do you draw the line? And those maybe it's easy. It's like you're not causing permanent disfigurement, although to some extent, you are.
Brett Johnson [:The tattoo can turn into
Norm Murdock [:There are parents there are parents that ply their children with alcohol. Yeah. There's parents that believe that, sex workers is a legitimate option.
Steve Palmer [:So they're
Norm Murdock [:you know? So they're
Steve Palmer [:The justice is raising their kids to in certain ways, and you know? Yeah. So the in the government you know, and here's some the opposite whataboutism, we preclude that. You know, the government's
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Make some of that stuff unlawful.
Norm Murdock [:Parents do anything.
Steve Palmer [:They can't do anything. Right.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, I mean, there are limits.
Steve Palmer [:So is this, like, where is the limit? Where does where do you draw the the the the line? And it's not so easy. So those on either side of this would say that it is. You know? So if I'm saying, I think it's insane to to to change your to cut off your child's penis, I it's utter insanity to me. I think you're crazy. I think that is nuts. I think that's completely off the globe stupid. On the other hand, the question is if and I so I would agree with this law. On the other hand, I also take a position like, alright.
Steve Palmer [:What's the power of the government? And I'm very I'm very suspect of this? And and what can the government tell us to do in our tell us what to do or what not to do in our private lives? And, you know, I I I always grapple with this in every analysis probably to my own. You know, I I can't say that I'm right. No. That's that's These things bug me.
Norm Murdock [:No. It
Brett Johnson [:it it's valid on both sides of this. It really is.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's okay, I think, to to consider that. And DeWine has said, for example, on this issue, that he has found in interviewing people pro and con That he has concluded that people on both sides want what is best for children. But
Steve Palmer [:I use the government to say otherwise. Right? So if the like, is the government the purveyor of, quote, what is best for the children, end quote?
Norm Murdock [:In In many in many well, in in a whole all kinds of ways, yes.
Steve Palmer [:Like, look. We can't have sex with children and because it's against their law.
Norm Murdock [:Children children must to go to school. It even if the parent doesn't want them to go to school Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:A truancy. Yeah. They give you an alternative, though, for for homeschool.
Norm Murdock [:They give you all but They don't give you the alternative of not educating your Right.
Brett Johnson [:Your kid. And your kids must be inoculated before they go to school. Well, you
Norm Murdock [:have a lot that There's a lot
Steve Palmer [:that I don't agree with.
Brett Johnson [:They don't agree. You know?
Steve Palmer [:So do not agree with all that.
Brett Johnson [:Sides of just what you're talking about.
Steve Palmer [:Then then you can start splitting it. It's like, is is every vaccination the same? And, no, I think they're not. You know? I I think far from it. And this is where, you know, it's a whole it's a whole different thing.
Norm Murdock [:This. I think this is is So permanent. And when it comes to operations, when it comes to suppressing puberty
Steve Palmer [:Sure. This would be the argument.
Norm Murdock [:Right? Cannot recover If they have long term treatment, they're not coming back.
Steve Palmer [:You could you could draw parallel with drug laws. Yes. You know, your kids aren't allowed to take heroin. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:And, you know, and and we And we're also looking at at a big assumption here that the parents, had you know, the schools are Accepting and and working with the kids in regards to name a chain the name change or, you know, the the, the pronoun change. My mind goes to that. Okay. The parents may not be accepting of this whole situation just as if somebody chooses to or not they didn't choose, that they feel that they're gay. Yep. I I didn't mean to say choose. They don't. They don't choose that.
Brett Johnson [:And and there are there are parents that don't accept it, and and and they kick them out of the house.
Norm Murdock [:I'll tinker with that. I think some people choose to be gay.
Brett Johnson [:I don't think so. I don't I don't think so.
Steve Palmer [:I I don't know. I I
Norm Murdock [:Unless a lot of experimentation.
Brett Johnson [:Well, again, what I'm saying is the fact that parents don't the parents don't accept
Steve Palmer [:I don't profess to know exactly how that happens. I I I would say something like this, though. These types of things often pass. That's right. You know, with kids. Sure.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:And in fact, I think there there are more reliable studies that would show just that.
Brett Johnson [:You can't.
Steve Palmer [:So doing nothing and not intervening and encouraging one thing or another is to me, that would be the best approach. So if my son came to me and said, I'm Gabbie, like, that's great, and I'm not gonna change the way I'm raising my son. If my son came to me and says, I think I'm a woman. I think I'm a girl. I want a sex change. I'm gonna say, yeah. That's great. No.
Steve Palmer [:And I'm not gonna do any you know, I'm not gonna I'm not gonna overly go try to deprogram or go through any of that nonsense, but I'm just gonna you know, that that's a problem that needs a little bit of space, and and the kids need the time to evolve until they're adults. I agree with all that. So what about the government saying that's how it should be? And that's the question, you know, because it's hard for me. I I agree with that philosophy. But then once you give the government a lever of power that can be exercised, it comes down to how it gets enforced. You know? So now you're gonna have children services Organizations, a government bureaucratic body coming into your house because I've defended these cases and dictating how you raise your kids. And I struggle with that a lot. I'm not saying it's an I'm not saying it's always inappropriate, but once you it's like creating the brown shirts to go compensate confiscate guns.
Steve Palmer [:You know, on the face of it, if you're a a criminal and you have guns that you shouldn't have, then why not have somebody go confiscate the guns except when it gets corrupt? You know? It's like Right. Right. And then it's a problem. So all I'm saying is, everybody, give it a little bit more thought because the the the line isn't so straight. And there's there's, like, so many other things we kick around this round table or round table is you know, it becomes there there there's always unintended adverse consequences for every government action. And not that you shouldn't do anything as a government, but you should explore what those might be. And then either acknowledge the risk and say we're gonna do it anyway or, change the attack a little bit we maybe have a a less invasive way to do it.
Brett Johnson [:It just feels like you've mentioned many times that it answers the question, well, we have to do something. We don't have to do something.
Steve Palmer [:This does smell a little political.
Brett Johnson [:It it doesn't have to. I have to agree with it. Slow down. Again,
Norm Murdock [:I'll figure this out. Politics is how we resolve, things without using violence, so I like politics.
Steve Palmer [:No. I know. I can put you through we're out
Norm Murdock [:in the 3 shooting at each other.
Steve Palmer [:No. The I
Norm Murdock [:mean, this is how you resolve things.
Steve Palmer [:Fundamental sort of Mhmm. The debate on the role of government. You know? This is like, is it are we gonna be completely
Norm Murdock [:I'm totally into partisanship. I'm totally into politics. I'm totally into free speech.
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:I I think when it comes to children,
Steve Palmer [:there are a
Norm Murdock [:whole host of things, whether it's gun ownership, whether it's, you know, you have to stay in school, whether you can't get married until a certain age whether you could join the military, can't drink until a certain age. There's all kinds of things, but we're we're gonna let people clip off their penises and remove their breasts When they're children
Steve Palmer [:Insanity.
Norm Murdock [:Get the f out of here.
Steve Palmer [:Let's go and look. I'm just gonna say parent
Norm Murdock [:and very frankly, That's madness. They're not adults, and you're deciding something that's going to affect them until they die.
Steve Palmer [:At its core. I agree with you
Norm Murdock [:a 100%. An adult.
Steve Palmer [:So what if I'm a parent and I say, look. I just don't like middle fingers. I think I think they're I think they're
Norm Murdock [:Let's cut that off.
Steve Palmer [:It you know, it's a it's like it's a symbol that can be used to say f you. Right. Let's just take a kid's middle and but, you know, let's do it when they're infants because they hardly will feel it. It's sort of like circumcision. Sure. It'll just be a quick little flash of pain, and they'll cry a little bit. And then by the time they grow up, they'll never know. See, I I live without the tip of a finger, and I think it's okay.
Steve Palmer [:So I'm gonna do it to all my children. Now would you want the government to step in and say, no. You can't do that. And if you're a doctor, would you do it? Of course not. It just you know, in in look. Is that the same? I don't know if it's the same, but you can come up with a 100 of those.
Norm Murdock [:We'll find out what DeWine is gonna do today according to him. We are now at the 10th day. And at the 10th day on under Ohio's constitution, if a governor does not sign a bill Or veto it, it becomes law. If he vetoes it, it can be overcome by a 3 fifths majority of the Ohio general assembly, which this passed It was over So
Steve Palmer [:they can they can overcome the veto.
Norm Murdock [:They could overcome his veto. We'll find out what he's gonna do, but the one thing
Steve Palmer [:is before that before you go there, is it the bill both ways. So not only is it you're talking about the transgender, well, I call them the surgical and medical intervention, but also the school thing. Or is that the same bill? Yes.
Norm Murdock [:It's in the same bill.
Steve Palmer [:So he has to so is it it comes as a package.
Norm Murdock [:That's right. It's 1 bill. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That that's where the stuff gets so because I can see somebody is saying, okay. I agree with this one, but not that one.
Norm Murdock [:Well and wait till we get to the next thing Deline just did.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:Again, it's the same kind of madness.
Steve Palmer [:So I cut you off. You said that he was says
Norm Murdock [:Well, he he he has said that this issue deserves him to take a stance. So he is saying he will either veto today or he will sign it.
Steve Palmer [:So he's not gonna pocket permit it Or Okay.
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Because we have the inverse of a pocket vehicle.
Norm Murdock [:Well, we and But we're gonna find out. Yeah. That good for him. Good for him?
Brett Johnson [:Seriously. I mean
Norm Murdock [:At least at least he's manning up to the decision.
Brett Johnson [:And it sounds as though he's done some research. He from what he's now what that means, I don't know. That's right.
Steve Palmer [:I bet the research is, what do what do my possible voters think of this? That's the research, sadly.
Norm Murdock [:I think I
Brett Johnson [:mean, I saw the I saw the photo ops and all that sort of stuff. I was like, Okay. You're trying, but is it he's gonna I I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:I He's in his 2nd term. I don't think DeWine's meant for he was a US senator. I can't see him doing it. I think this is it. This is a I don't I don't think he's got
Steve Palmer [:another He's no stranger to interfering interfering into private lives.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, no. Yes. As we as we know, it pretty much shut down Ohio unless you were a big box store.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And then you were allowed to stay open during COVID.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Darling of the the COVID elite.
Norm Murdock [:A little a little, you know, a little Chinese restaurant couldn't stay open, but all the McDonald's Good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Come on.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right? Exactly.
Norm Murdock [:Insane. Yeah. So, you know, maybe Ohio needs an amendment on having a single subject in legislation. Because as you say, Steve, these are 2 stand alone acts in in one bill.
Steve Palmer [:That's not by mistake.
Norm Murdock [:And it's not by mistake. Wait till you get a load of this. Alright. So yesterday, DeWine signed house bill 201.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. Before you go there
Norm Murdock [:Go ahead,
Steve Palmer [:man. Before you go there
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Slide the paper chase over to your right.
Norm Murdock [:Over here?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Little bit further.
Norm Murdock [:Oh,
Steve Palmer [:Yep. Now pull the microphone towards your face just a little bit.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Will do.
Steve Palmer [:And look what happens. Hey. Look. At least the listeners love it. Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's my Perry buddy. Yeah. So house bill two zero one, he signed yesterday. Again, it was the 10th day, so he he protracted the decision, and what what this bill started out as was a bill to a bill to safeguard, if you will, Ohioan's choice on what kind of fueled car or other, you know, like garden implements, outdoor power equipment. It was It is a bill, and it has passed. That means you cannot restrict cars based on the kind of fuel, in terms of what's available in Ohio for consumers to buy Mhmm. Or anywhere they can go. So this prevents, cities, for example, saying only electric vehicles can be used on, I don't know, pick in the short north.
Norm Murdock [:Right? So we're gonna ban all diesel and gasoline powered vehicles in the short north. This prevents that. This allows Ohioans to freely buy cars and trucks using either batteries Or compressed natural gas or hydrogen or gasoline or diesel or whatever they want, and also allows you to buy power equipment at Lowe's or Home Depot or Yeah. Wherever. Right? Yeah. So he signed that. It was a rejection, for example, of California's mandate. That is that state, by 2035, All vehicles sold in California must either be hydrogen or are pure electric vehicles, not even hybrids.
Steve Palmer [:That's a little bit different issue, but we'll get to it in a second.
Norm Murdock [:Oh, yeah. That's a totally different issue, but what was added at the last minute?
Steve Palmer [:The pork.
Brett Johnson [:Oh god.
Steve Palmer [:No no pun intended for New Year's
Norm Murdock [:Was
Steve Palmer [:we'll talk about.
Norm Murdock [:A gift to the natural gas
Steve Palmer [:here we go.
Norm Murdock [:Monopolies in Ohio. There are 4 of them that allow them to charge 3,700,000 Ohio households that use natural gas, a premium of a dollar 50 a month forever. There is no sunset. In order to pay for megaproject pipelines going to empty fields so that they're ready for the Department of Development to market sites in Ohio Yeah. For development.
Steve Palmer [:So this is government this is like Yeah. It is not like it's good to with this. I was on board with this because, you know, the purpose of government, like, any even the true libertarians, would say, alright. The government's job is infrastructure. Right? And and, you know, you have to have some consistency in that. So, like, we wouldn't want the city of Columbus prohibiting diesel engines when everybody else allows them because you couldn't get around the state. Yeah. So that is the role of government.
Steve Palmer [:The government needs to to step in and do something like this. And, you know, there's there's another you know, on the federal level, sometimes we we hear the term preempt the field where there's so much pervasive regulation, by the federal government that the government just has preempted the field. This the local the local units of government don't get to act, and this is sort of like that. This is the federal or the state government saying, look. I don't care if you're a a a blues city here, and you wanna you're gonna do your best to say electric vehicles only. Not gonna be able to do that to the exclusion of other things. Right. That that is what the government is supposed to do.
Steve Palmer [:What the government is not supposed to do is dole out, monopolies and sweetheart deals to private businesses. Look. I mean, this is a householder problem. Right? This is this is what this is similar to that. Not not the same. It's a but, you know, there's no grift yet. And I say, yet, because how does this happen? Like, is this just true lobbying, or is there something more going on? You know? Right. It's it's a
Norm Murdock [:really know. Right? Some guy's wife gets hired by some company coming in under one of these deals, And we will never know about it.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. It's another this is another form of corporate welfare.
Steve Palmer [:And let me say this.
Brett Johnson [:You know? And and, just openly, we're gonna, Yeah. Buck 35 a month or whatever.
Norm Murdock [:This is this is Hunter Biden stuff.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. So you get to charge what you want, and we're gonna we're gonna sub we're we're gonna authorize that. And not only that, make it a law Yeah. So you can make 1,000,000,000 of dollars. Right. And I would say this, if it makes sense to go put a pipeline through a certain field and there's a cost to that, well, then sell your product at a rate that is commensurate with the cost and make a profit. I don't give a crap. Right.
Steve Palmer [:But as soon as the government intervenes and puts its in, quote, invisible hand into it Right. Then now it's distorted. Now what happens is Right. It could be, and it it might end up hurting the gas companies. It might end up helping them. I don't know.
Norm Murdock [:But it's gonna hurt us. Even other businesses, appreciate the distortion argument you just made because the Ohio Manufacturers Association was against this. Yeah. Because they're here. Right? Mhmm. They made the investment. They did just what you just said.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:They paid for their pipeline.
Steve Palmer [:And now it's devalued.
Norm Murdock [:And and here comes their competition in.
Steve Palmer [:Right? Can't charge enough to cover it because the competition will beat them. Why? Because the government favored them.
Norm Murdock [:It it gave them gave them a free infrastructure.
Steve Palmer [:This is my this is my analogy that I always use. Like, anybody who's who's a woodworker and has tried to build a 4 a square 45 degree mitered picture frame, and it's a little bit off. And you think, I'm just gonna shave a little bit here, and it'll work. But then you look at the the left corner, and it's like, oh, crap. That's off too. So you fix that one. Then you look at the right one. That's off.
Steve Palmer [:And pretty soon, you gotta start over, and it all goes to crap. That's what this is. Government tinkering in the economy like this turns it all to crap. Because if if if our government, whether they're sitting in the general assembly or they're Biden up on Capitol Hill, I the if if you think that these people are capable of or of engineering a complete economy, well, then study history because it's never been done in the history of any human affairs as the government completely engineered an economy. The you know, every and it's not like everybody who's tried has killed a 100000000000 people. Of course, that's what happened. Right. You know, go go study Stalin and the kulaks and what happened when they tried to engineer the economy.
Steve Palmer [:I mean, it's a disaster. Right. And those are just those are just the, you know, the obvious examples of it, but the the more sinister ones when it it's like now these private businesses, the ones who didn't get the benefit, are gonna go out of business.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. They're at a competitive disadvantage because the government is picking winners and losers.
Steve Palmer [:Sorta like the mom and pop Chinese restaurant versus, McDonald's.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:Right? That's what they've done.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. For for what? Almost a whole year or maybe it was a whole year. I I don't know.
Steve Palmer [:At least but it's not just the whole year. It was the out of Moore. So, you know, if it would have been if if these businesses, me included, could have known, alright, it's gonna be 6 weeks, and we're back. That's it. But and the first, it started with 2 weeks to Yeah. You know, to slow the spread.
Norm Murdock [:We're gonna flatten the curve.
Steve Palmer [:So alright. So I got 2 week vacation. I can deal with that. I'm gonna go home, get some home improvement projects done, hang out with the kids.
Norm Murdock [:Right. You know,
Steve Palmer [:we're gonna have a little mini vacation that we wouldn't normally get. Maybe they go a little bit long this summer for whatever, you know, but Right. That'll be okay. We can survive that. But then 2 turned to 4 and 4 to 8 and then 8 to 12, and pretty soon, you've got an entire year and change. So then how do you ramp back up if you're a small business or a few of these other businesses? Do you say, alright. Well, I can compete. All I have to do is spend a little bit more money here.
Steve Palmer [:It'll hurt. I'll have to take a step backwards. But you don't know when they're gonna when the government's gonna act and and put its thumb on the scale again Yeah. And and and change the equation again against you. So you just don't. This is why
Norm Murdock [:You guys were here. I was in Florida for for part of the COVID thing, and I was buzzing into work or into the show today, and I was listening to a local attorney and radio personality, Chuck Douglas. Mhmm. You guys may know of him. And he mentioned that during COVID here in Columbus, that when you entered the city from outside of Columbus, you would get a text. And I I just don't know if this is true or not, but he said you would get a text Reminding you that you had to wear a mask.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. I didn't, but I turned I there was some talk of that kind of stuff going on.
Norm Murdock [:Now how Like, you
Steve Palmer [:were signing out. Here's what I
Brett Johnson [:to Sign up for it.
Steve Palmer [:Here's how it was going on. No. You had a doubt.
Norm Murdock [:He he got Really?
Steve Palmer [:There was
Norm Murdock [:He got texts, he said.
Steve Palmer [:There I'm guessing. I don't know this. I'm I'm speculating. There was a time when I actively and intentionally opted out of every health care app on my phone. So, like, Google has baked into it
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Certain health care, you know, your heart rate or whatever it is. Like, how many steps you take all that nonsense. You I I had to dig through setting after setting after setting and then opt out of everything because they were you know, there was that kind of stuff going on. They were monitoring whether you were healthy stuff or whatever. I turned off all location services. So I don't I don't that never happened to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were tied to something like that. That's that's Because we sat around this roundtable with Jared and the rest of us. We're like, turn this shit off now.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Interesting. I mean Wow.
Brett Johnson [:I I I have never heard anything about that.
Norm Murdock [:Me either, Brett. I had Never heard of that before.
Steve Palmer [:I am,
Norm Murdock [:It blows me away, man. And it's super creepy to think that that the Columbus Department of Health or whoever is telling cell phone providers, you know, we want all incoming cell phones
Steve Palmer [:to Technology is easy. It's geofencing.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Wonder if it it ended up yeah. That's really awful.
Steve Palmer [:To look into that. But but it's it's scary the power of the government. So where does it stop? That for a good cause, though, Norm. You know, we're protecting the health of everybody, so who wouldn't wanna do that? Who
Norm Murdock [:wouldn't wanna do that?
Steve Palmer [:And I remember specifically, DeWine. I was. My son was in his music lesson, and things had sort of opened back up, and he was allowed to go have a live music lesson, something in person. And, I'm sitting in the car waiting, just listening to, Jerry used to call him the man in the sky or the man on the box. You know, he'd come in at 6 o'clock every night and give his little speeches. Yeah. And there was a and then this one wasn't one of those, but it was a schedule. There's a big announcement from buyer from, DeWine, and, he gives this speech.
Steve Palmer [:I I should look up the date, but he's like it was something like, alright. We have the tools. We know what to do. We've done it before. Meaning, alright. We gave up our businesses, shut down, do whatever. And I I remember slamming my fist into the dashboard. It's like, you motherfucker.
Steve Palmer [:It's like, you didn't do anything. You did nothing. Yeah. And and what's this we? Because I'll bet you every single paycheck that, was coming your way found its way to your bank account. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Sure.
Steve Palmer [:And I didn't by then, I hadn't had a paycheck in a year.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And I'm just like, you son of a bitch. You didn't do anything. And to to tell the mom and pop Chinese people that, you know, you've got the tools. No. The government had the tools, the lever of power to force you out of business and make you do its bidding Yeah. And and essentially, deprive you of a living and a right to pursuit of happiness.
Norm Murdock [:100%, man.
Steve Palmer [:And, so that somebody asked me recently what I think of DeWine, and I told him that story. I was like, that's what I think of DeWine.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. You know? Awful.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. That that sort of flip
Norm Murdock [:Even a Republican filed, in a legislation to impeach DeWine at the height of the COVID process. There were Republicans that were like, I don't care if he's a Republican. He's turned into a dictator.
Steve Palmer [:I think it's true that the the COVID the national COVID, I'll call him the the crime syndicate who were who were advocating to shut down, vaccinate, do all this crap. Yeah. Early on, they identified Ohio and Biden as somebody who could play ball. So this the Ohio is a test market for this stuff. You're right. And there's a memo or an email that that You're right. Was exposed through public records
Norm Murdock [:You're right.
Steve Palmer [:Saying we can we'll use we'll use, DeWine. I keep same Biden, but we'll use DeWine.
Norm Murdock [:Well, Biden was complimenting DeWine and saying, hey. He's one of the big he's a good republic. Right.
Steve Palmer [:This is during the Trump era. Yeah. This is during the Trump era. Sure.
Norm Murdock [:It all started With
Steve Palmer [:that, absolutely. DeWine was targeted, and Ohio was targeted as a as a test market for these sort of restrictions, because it's sort of a red state. But at the same time, they had a, a RHINO governor who would play ball.
Norm Murdock [:And it's always been a RHINO.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. Who would play ball. And he did, of course.
Norm Murdock [:And we have had a string of Republican governors that are RHINOs, Kasich, Voinovich Yeah. Taft. I mean, it's it's unbelievable. You know?
Steve Palmer [:And they they all managed to get wealthy.
Norm Murdock [:And I keep saying I keep saying you guys all criticized governor Gilligan for enacting Gilligan. For yeah. John Gilligan. You guys you guys all criticized him for enacting an income tax On Ohio citizens. Right? And none of the subsequent Republican governors or legislatures Have gotten rid of the income. Right? Right. Because Right. Look at this.
Norm Murdock [:Like, the wine this just, I think, this week said, I'm gonna give I'm gonna give
Steve Palmer [:I'm making
Norm Murdock [:sure that for certain schools for certain purposes. And it's like, man, Ohio has too much money. If he's got these baubles to He thinks
Steve Palmer [:it's his to give.
Norm Murdock [:It's it's ridiculous. Hey. Refund us our money, man.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. This at at every level, this offends me. Government, the local governments, the state government. It it offends me at every level.
Norm Murdock [:And look how regressive sales tax is, and look how it's grown. And this is It's almost 10 Sent to some place.
Steve Palmer [:This is my private shopper cheese story. At one point, I was involved or we we had a we we had somebody helping with the kids at one point, And we said, hey. Look. Can you we got this party coming up. Here's a grocery list. We're both jammed up doing other things, or we were out of town. Whatever it is, can you go do the shopping for us?
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:I I wasn't on board with that, but I'm not gonna go into the
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:The the why that happened. Just assume that it happened. And, you know, when we got the bill, it was insane. It's like so it like, the little cheese cubes were the most expensive ones.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Steve Palmer [:I would bought the I would bought the Walmart version. Right. And she bought the gourmet version. Right. And that was true all up and down the list. Yeah. And why? It it I I paused for a second, and I was pissed, but I thought, you know, well, we didn't specify for 1. And secondly, it wasn't her money.
Steve Palmer [:It was really easy to spend my money. Yeah. It's a piece of cake. You know? It's like, oh, I think they should have this good as my favorite cheese. I'm just gonna get this cheese.
Norm Murdock [:Top flight.
Steve Palmer [:Because that's why, you know, that's what I would get, so that's what we're gonna get. And, you know, why is the government any different with your money?
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:They're not.
Steve Palmer [:It's easy to spend your money. Oh, yeah. It's not theirs. Alright. Yeah. They have no stake in the outcome.
Brett Johnson [:No. Yeah. Look at any conflict that we subsidize around the world.
Steve Palmer [:That's right.
Brett Johnson [:We never traded the money.
Norm Murdock [:We just give it to them.
Steve Palmer [:We look down here.
Norm Murdock [:We can always Brent Moore. Right? Brent Moore.
Steve Palmer [:How many times down here, around the round table, after a show or after one of our podcast, clients is in here, do we think, yeah, you know, it's probably time we need to add this, or we can do this, or we can do that. But it's our money, so we spend it wisely. You know, we don't just go buy on a whim, everything that we would want. Yeah. But if somebody else were funding it, this place would be chock full of equipment. You know? It's like but in instead, the business finds its own level. Mhmm. And it works.
Steve Palmer [:You know? It's like we found a way to make it profitable. We found a way through hard knocks, you know, I had some dumb purchases, but that was on me. Yeah. I lost the money. I got burned. I didn't do it again. Yeah. And, you know, that like, if if that happened, if the government had to spend its own money or if they came out of their own pockets somehow, it's not possible, of course.
Steve Palmer [:Right. But it might change things.
Norm Murdock [:If we could just get the politicians to suffer along with us In the same programs like Social Security and like, the general health care market, instead, Ted, they have their own special health care. They have their own special retirement. They have everything segregated to where they are unaffected personally By the decisions that they make for the rest of us.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:And and I heard this even from dear friends during the shutdown. Oh, you're real you're smart. You're one of the smartest guys I know, Steve. You're gonna you're gonna figure out a way to make this work. You're gonna be just fine. And I was thinking go yourself. Right? I mean, really, forgive my language, but I was just like you. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's like think how belittling
Brett Johnson [:it is. That doesn't help at that moment.
Steve Palmer [:It doesn't help at that moment. And and of the depth of the belittlement of that. It's like, it was easy for me to build a business. It was easy for me to get this far. It's all you. I heard that too. Oh, you're good. It's easy for you.
Steve Palmer [:And, you know, they're running a business So getting clients, that's easy for you. And I'm just like, who who the fuck? Like,
Norm Murdock [:what? Right.
Steve Palmer [:And, again, I'll probably I'll probably blurb out the language. But, you you know, it's like
Norm Murdock [:I know what you
Steve Palmer [:mean. Screw you people. Right. You know? It's like, and the government has said that to all the small mom and pop businesses time and time again, DeWine's at the helm of that. So that's how I
Norm Murdock [:feel about DeWine. Totally,
Steve Palmer [:man. Yeah. Sorry. I monologue there.
Norm Murdock [:No. No. No. You know, coming out of a topic we have discussed here on the show for probably almost half a year. And we even had Frank LaRose on, and and, we had Bernie Moreno talk about it. And I'm going to that that August special election issue 1 on the constitution, on the the percentage of the vote you need to pass a to enact and and put in a constitutional amendment, and it keeps Bubbling up. Like, right now, the marijuana thing is in complete chaos in Ohio. It's legal to use marijuana recreationally, but there's nowhere in Ohio to buy recreational marijuana yet.
Norm Murdock [:So There's all this chaos with gun ownership, with, with testing, people with CDLs, all kinds of stuff that are affected by this change, rather than, as Steve always says, things should be done slowly through the legislative process as much as possible, and this marijuana thing It's just one example. Then there's the abortion change, and now, LaRose and, Dave Yost, so the secretary of state and Dave Yost, the attorney general for Ohio, have been grappling with a new constitutional amendment, proposal initiative.
Steve Palmer [:I'm already shaking my head. I don't even know what it is. I'm already shaking my head.
Norm Murdock [:And it's and this would enact all those horror show things we saw in 2000 Mules. It would allow your ID To vote would be a self certifying statement. That would be your ID. It would allow unlimited numbers And unmonitored, drop off boxes, it would allow instant same day registration,
Steve Palmer [:meaning Who is behind this?
Norm Murdock [:A coalition of people that don't want Trump to win, basically. Yeah. This is Because it's being done for the primary election in order to be in place for the November election. Did you say LaRosa is is okay with you? Against it.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, against it.
Norm Murdock [:I'm sorry. I missed it. Allow every voter in Ohio would get a mailed ballot, and finally, the other big change is LaRose Or whoever is secretary of state would not be allowed to remove from the voter rolls dead people or inactive or absent voters.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So I I think we complete catastrophe. Is a catastrophe. But the the language won't be what you said. The language will be other things, and that's an of what the consequences will be. So what they'll do is they'll whitewash this with some like, it it's gonna require voter ID, but then it'll define voter ID as a an an A happy way. Yeah. A a a that and a testament that, you are who you are.
Norm Murdock [:I can see Ohio voters voting this in.
Steve Palmer [:They'll they'll they'll make it look good.
Norm Murdock [:Because right. Because they'll make it look like a convenience thing.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Like, Or you're disenfranchising people for
Norm Murdock [:not voting for this. It's old, you know, it's old, crabby people Republicans that just don't want brown people to vote.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:That's how they'll present this. So they're gonna make it hard for us when I should just be able to rock up Same day, register 5 seconds before I actually vote. And when I'm demanded proof of ID, I just say, hey. I'm Norm Murdock An ISO ISO state. Mhmm. You gotta be kidding me.
Brett Johnson [:There's so many layers of each one of those don't. Not that they don't make sense, but it's like for like you said, the last part, dead people not off the rules. Okay. That doesn't I gotta hear the justification for that.
Steve Palmer [:It won't say that. It'll say something like, they can't remove dead people without blah blah blah
Norm Murdock [:blah blah.
Steve Palmer [:There's a bunch of language that I
Norm Murdock [:can check-in. Super hard
Steve Palmer [:to predict. Yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I guess I'm I'm totally missing the common of having an ID. Because I know in the city of Columbus, if you can go to the city of Columbus and get ID for, like, $5.
Steve Palmer [:It's easy.
Brett Johnson [:It's easy.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It's
Brett Johnson [:easy. There's no there's no anal probe.
Norm Murdock [:Right.
Brett Johnson [:It's that so you can have an ID to have, go to the library And get a library card to to check out books to better yourself, to have an ID, to get get wealth money, get get help.
Steve Palmer [:Don't have ID. I mean, really.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, if you
Steve Palmer [:were That's
Norm Murdock [:what I would like to know. Fly. I mean and it's so insulting. If I was
Steve Palmer [:If you're Black
Norm Murdock [:or Brown and
Steve Palmer [:you say it's racist because you can't get an ID, they're gonna be like, what are you talking about? Here's my driver's license.
Norm Murdock [:Right. I fly 2 or 3 times a week.
Brett Johnson [:And and those that don't, let's figure out why they don't. And And and that'll answer all the questions.
Steve Palmer [:It's probably the result of several bad choices or the choice not to be on the grid. Fine.
Brett Johnson [:Something. Right? So Let's figure it out.
Steve Palmer [:If you're not legal
Norm Murdock [:I don't wanna be called up for jury duty. Right.
Steve Palmer [:You know what I mean? You wanna live off the grid,
Norm Murdock [:go live
Steve Palmer [:off the grid, but you can't live off the grid and then let and then the vote.
Norm Murdock [:So where we are on this is yesterday, Yost, who as attorney general has to approve the the ballot language, which in many cases is a summary that's much smaller. Right? Then you don't make the voters I mean, it's there for them to read, but it summarizes what the legal text is. Right? So he rejected it as misleading. Well, they have they don't have gonna go back and try again?
Brett Johnson [:They don't have enough So they have they're on the signature process.
Norm Murdock [:Apparently, they're at the application phase to
Steve Palmer [:get signatures. This is why. Right? This is this is the consequence of the earlier decisions that Ohio has made to make it easy to amend the constitution. It's ridiculous. This is the problem. Yeah. It becomes a legislative tool. And if it's a legislative tool, it's a political tool.
Steve Palmer [:But the problem is it doesn't you can't change it so easily. So once it's ingrained, it's ingrained. And this is this is the problem. I find this insane.
Norm Murdock [:So the whole like, the marijuana thing.
Steve Palmer [:Show has been insane to me.
Norm Murdock [:So So DeWine and the legislature are now having to catch up and and put something into place
Steve Palmer [:about rent freeze. In Ohio to smoke pot is insane
Norm Murdock [:to me.
Brett Johnson [:But I guess I was under the impression that what was passed was complete. No. And the legislators torn it apart.
Norm Murdock [:No. The abortion heart attack. The abortion thing was complete. That was self executing. Okay. The marijuana issue was not self executing. What it said is The legislature shall pass legislation in order to make all this happen.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:But but 10 days after the vote, recreational use became legal.
Steve Palmer [:Right.
Norm Murdock [:But there was no way to buy recreational
Brett Johnson [:marijuana. Because because I know they were messing around with the taxing. They're messing around with the number of plants that you can have.
Norm Murdock [:Yes.
Brett Johnson [:But that was already voted on that you could have 12. And the and the taxing was supposed to be Ten, 12% or something like that.
Norm Murdock [:Not in the legislation. The all those specifics
Steve Palmer [:were the
Norm Murdock [:That's right.
Steve Palmer [:Not the legislation?
Norm Murdock [:Amendment that I
Steve Palmer [:got in
Brett Johnson [:the but not the legislation.
Norm Murdock [:No. It was not in the amendment. All those particulars were not in the amendment. The amendment said
Brett Johnson [:What did I what did I vote on then?
Norm Murdock [:You voted for the general concept of legalization for recreational use.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. So where'd all these numbers come from? The legislature plant the 12 plant.
Norm Murdock [:The legislature has all these bills now
Brett Johnson [:Okay.
Norm Murdock [:Okay. To try to flesh out.
Brett Johnson [:Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:The abortion thing was really different.
Brett Johnson [:Said, which I knew it was. Yes. Yeah. Which I knew it was. Okay.
Norm Murdock [:If you remember when you voted
Brett Johnson [:because you heard a lot of specifics around the marijuana stuff, and then all of a sudden When
Norm Murdock [:you voted on issue 1, which was the abortion thing, when you went to the booth, there was huge pages of text.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:And it was self executing. Alright. The marijuana thing was like a little tiny thing.
Brett Johnson [:And then The other okay. I gotcha. I gotcha. No. Yeah. Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Okay. So, I mean, look, I I wouldn't even agree with this with the with the proper way, which would have been to say maybe not in the proper way. How it how it the the best the the worst scenario for me before this would have been that the general assembly says, we hereby make marijuana a lawful substance in Ohio, and then they would then delegate to some department of health the regulatory scheme. Yeah. I don't even like that.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right. You know,
Steve Palmer [:I think the general assembly's job is to do that. I agree. Right. But, at least that would've at least there is some oversight to that. But then now they've just Now they've used the constitution to replace the general assembly. Like, rock and roll, folks. You voted for this. Yep.
Steve Palmer [:Now they got it.
Norm Murdock [:Big mistake. Bernie said it was a mistake. LaRose said it was a mistake. And I'm I I mean, here we got 3 examples where we have Chaos in Ohio because
Steve Palmer [:So, look, you want a new law? Just go amend the constitution. That's great. We're gonna have a 2nd Ohio revised constitution. It's it's still the Ohio revised code. So that's what's happening.
Norm Murdock [:It's a mess. You know? And and to your point, Steve, I love your point. So just going back just for a second to that public utilities thing with the natural gas companies being able to, you know, charge a buck 50 a month to 3,700,000 people forever to pay for these programs, there is this creature that the general assembly created called the Ohio Consumer Council. Uh-huh. And they are supposed to represent us before the Public Utilities Commission on these kinds of matters, and I'm with Steve. That's the legislature's job. Why don't they why don't they get into the nitty gritty? They're the ones we elected to do. That's right.
Norm Murdock [:So they appoint a few lawyers. It create this staff in this office to supposedly represent the people of Ohio.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It it
Norm Murdock [:What the hell's the legislature there 4.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. It it Right. It's like it it we have yeah. Everybody knows my thought on it.
Brett Johnson [:And and and
Norm Murdock [:You know,
Steve Palmer [:the government
Norm Murdock [:has run them up. Yeah. And I'm your point. Yeah. And that that commission
Brett Johnson [:was actually corrupt as well too.
Steve Palmer [:Yes. Of course. Because you don't get to vote on that. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Yes. It was. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:That that for sure. The general assembly gets to pick a committee to go do the bidding of the general assembly. Well, I didn't vote for this committee.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Right.
Steve Palmer [:You know, I wasn't there in the backdoor deals when people were running office to office, say, I want this guy on the committee because my uncle Bob did something something for him. And he's
Norm Murdock [:don't even answer to us.
Brett Johnson [:Kind of similar, though, to the education piece. So That DeWine's picking who's gonna be in the
Steve Palmer [:That's right. Well
Brett Johnson [:in the advisory board for education
Norm Murdock [:When we used to have a a at least a A big chunk of the state board of education was elected directly by us and only a certain portion appointed by him. Now it's all him. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Like, what does the general assembly do other than go to, Yeah. The Claremont that's gone. But it's on the Claremont restaurant and eat breakfast.
Norm Murdock [:You know, it's
Steve Palmer [:like, what what's their job other than to come and haunt With the Wolf family. Rub elbows at the Claremont Yeah. And, have drinks downtown at the at the clock. You know, it's like, Anyway Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:You guys wanna do a little, predictions?
Steve Palmer [:I Yeah. Let's do
Norm Murdock [:some, New Year stuff. Yeah. You know, with predictions. So, Brett, you said you had
Brett Johnson [:some. I actually Put a little time into this one. Not that that's worth anything. I even put a blog up.
Norm Murdock [:What so I get my 5
Steve Palmer [:blog proxy.
Brett Johnson [:My my my 5 blogs. So I so I'm predicting, number 1, I think I did 7 things. There will be there will not be any presidential debates this year. I I don't think there will be. I I know that Trump is saying,
Norm Murdock [:yeah.
Brett Johnson [:Let's do it. Let's do it. I I don't see it happening. And then I think Joe's Joe's team is it just that that morning on stage. I think and that leads to social media so all the all the debate stuff, all the talk will go on social media. Social media will be corrupt with misinformation produced by AI. I think bad actors foreign bad actors are salivating for the opportunity to put crap on social media. I'm almost thinking I'm gonna opt out of social media completely.
Brett Johnson [:Ohio secretary of state Frank LaRose will not be a factor During the Ohio g p GOP senate nomination, he ain't got the money. I think it's gonna be Marino against Brown. I think Brown's win.
Norm Murdock [:And Marina was just endorsed by Trump.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. I I I I I I just think Sherrod's gonna win. Sherrod Brown's gonna win. The wars, I hope Russia Ukraine war and Israel Hamas conflict will end this year in 2024. I'm hoping. That's my prediction. I hope so. I think now this this is gonna be a little sci fi, but I think your next checkup visit in the next year is gonna be with a robot.
Brett Johnson [:I think general practitioners are you're gonna start to see Wow. Just go in, you know, 15 minutes with a robot, tell them what's going on. That's it. It's happening already with nursing in home and such like that. I I I I don't know why. I just kinda hit it on hit it on me. Wow. This is kinda far fetched I think, up to 50 people are gonna ruin their eyesight during the April 2024 eclipse.
Norm Murdock [:Alright. Up to 50. Stupid. They're gonna be stupid.
Steve Palmer [:Look at it.
Brett Johnson [:Yep. They're they're gonna look right at it, and they're gonna run their eyesight. I'm
Steve Palmer [:gonna predict there's an eclipse.
Brett Johnson [:And then number 7,
Norm Murdock [:the deal
Brett Johnson [:I don't know if you guys knew this or not, though, but I think I think, Back in September, DeWine, our favorite our favorite guy, announced expanding the state's Project Dawn to install, Narcan overdose recovery nasal spray kits at rest stops across Ohio. Did you know that?
Norm Murdock [:No. I did.
Brett Johnson [:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Another Gotta do something. And that you know? So we have that
Norm Murdock [:on our phone. What's your prediction on
Brett Johnson [:that, though? That'll go away. It'll it'll go away. That it's No one no one know Not one of those cans were gonna be used in the next
Norm Murdock [:or they'll get stolen.
Steve Palmer [:They'll get stolen. It it'll be complete. So I wanna know who got the contract.
Brett Johnson [:Yeah. Exactly.
Steve Palmer [:And how they got the contract up
Brett Johnson [:to to
Steve Palmer [:to to need that order.
Brett Johnson [:That's the 1st place I'm thinking. Oh, wait a minute. I let's go to a rest stop and get an Narcan.
Steve Palmer [:Who's getting money? Come on. Who's getting money for that? That's what I wanna know.
Brett Johnson [:It's kind of an easy one besides
Norm Murdock [:The feel good measure, isn't it?
Brett Johnson [:The feel good.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. But it's more than that. Who's get
Norm Murdock [:who's who will
Steve Palmer [:who's Got the contract to go install those things.
Brett Johnson [:That is true. Those are my 7 thoughts.
Norm Murdock [:Well, I'll I'll I'll I'll fly through mine. And then, Steve, You know, why don't you riff off of, Brett and I, and then come up with some. In the meantime, I think The Standard and Poor's, Dow, the stock market, I think in 2024, there's gonna be a major correction. We are at an all time high in the history of the stock market this week. And I just think I think it's built on on tissue paper, and I just think I think there's gonna be a big correction. I you know, not saying
Steve Palmer [:Enough where you're adjusting your investments?
Norm Murdock [:Yes. I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be, like, you know, 20%. Like, I think it's gonna be a big one.
Steve Palmer [:So you're going into bond funds? You're going into, money market?
Norm Murdock [:I have shuffled the deck. Yes, sir. I I have. Yeah. Some annuities, some other things that, can't be affected by the stock market negatively. They may just They may just tread water. Right?
Brett Johnson [:Mhmm.
Norm Murdock [:So the investment doesn't go down, but it I don't think anything's I don't think this is sustainable. So that's that. I think Biden's gonna get impeached this year next year. I think Trump is gonna get elected. I think Biden and the DNC will claim it's a stolen election. I think we're that whole cycle is just going to Flip, and it's gonna be like Al Gore said, Bush stole the election. It's gonna be the, you know, the narrative legitimate, Norm. Yes.
Norm Murdock [:That's that's that's right. Because it happened to them, right, in that case. And I think the violence, coming off of the election results will be orders of magnitude bigger than what happened on January 6th
Brett Johnson [:Let's hope not.
Norm Murdock [:If Trump is reelected, in spite of a, a BLM, cofounder this week endorsing Trump for president.
Steve Palmer [:Really?
Norm Murdock [:The cofounder of the, BLM on the East Coast Wow. A gentleman. His name I did didn't write in my notes, but, it's all over social media. He has been interviewed, I don't know, you know, but on various news shows, and he says, Trump is the only 1 only candidate and to include Kamala Harris, who he named. He said he is the only candidate that will will really serve the interests of, black Americans.
Steve Palmer [:Very interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Contrary to the narrative.
Norm Murdock [:Contrary contrary to the narrative. Wow.
Steve Palmer [:Alright. So I did give this a little bit of thought. I did not come up with some specific predictions, but I will say this. The one thing I gave a lot of thought to was who's gonna be the president next in the coming year. Who's getting elected? And here's what I came up with. I have no idea. I I could not even put together a series of facts to draw a conclusion, even a hypothetical conclusion that would give me what an answer that I could rely upon. I in in in my head, when I really try to think it through, I have big black spot.
Steve Palmer [:I can't it's like, what's gonna happen here? Because we have we have Biden who is clearly, beyond his years.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:And probably gonna die.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Yeah. And he's certainly a puppet.
Steve Palmer [:A puppet.
Norm Murdock [:I mean, he he's being manipulated.
Steve Palmer [:And you have Trump who is all over the place, getting indicted in various places, got trials coming, and
Norm Murdock [:Ninety one charges against him.
Steve Palmer [:And he himself, not a spring chicken. No. So I have predicted this. Neither will be president, and the Dems will win. Do you
Norm Murdock [:think some other candidate is gonna come forward? Really?
Steve Palmer [:Yes. And the only this is here's how I connected that constellation of dots. I think the Democrats the Democratic Party generally is far more shrewd and capable politically than the Republican Party.
Brett Johnson [:That's for sure.
Steve Palmer [:I think it is obvious to me that the first party that produces a candidate who is not either Donald Trump or Biden Joe Biden will win. As long as that person at least appears to be reasonable, they will win because the Americans the America is done with this insanity.
Norm Murdock [:Steve, are you thinking Gavin Newsom? What what are you thinking?
Steve Palmer [:No. I'm thinking the guy from, Minnesota. I'm drawing a blank on his name. Okay. What's his name?
Norm Murdock [:I know who you mean, but I can't I can't
Steve Palmer [:think his name.
Norm Murdock [:But not the governor up there. It's it's it's
Steve Palmer [:It's a it's a I think it's a it's a general it's one of their local Yeah. Representatives or something. But, I I think and not that I agree with this, but I think that that No.
Norm Murdock [:You're just saying.
Steve Palmer [:The Dems are far more devious in political affairs like this. Yeah. They have to know that the first party that produces a candidate other than Joe Biden or Donald Trump will win the election. And, you know, the Republicans, by obvious, display this year are unable to produce anybody other than Trump. They just they're not gonna do it.
Norm Murdock [:Well, the votes aren't there.
Steve Palmer [:Well, even if they were, it's like they they just everybody's scared or who knows? I have no idea why. Yeah.
Norm Murdock [:Of course, I'm a DeSantis guy, and I'm I'm and I'm really you know, I'm despondent because I I really don't want Trump as president, But he's gonna be the only option I'm gonna be given.
Steve Palmer [:Well and and look. I I how I that I'm not saying I won't vote, my party, but, I I don't think that that is I I think that the 1st party to produce somebody other than these 2 will win, and I don't think it's be the Republicans. I think it'll be the Democrats, and they have an easy out to do it. So it's not just that they're shrewd. It's that their their table is set for this. Kamala Harris will be she will be she will bow out because behind the scenes, they're giving her the hook. The Dems are not immune to doing this. They they did it with, Bernie.
Norm Murdock [:You know? I I like this discussion, Steve. So so So just thinking of the timetable, because they're putting people on the primary ballot right now in you know, we know what happened in Colorado and California, and this week in Maine and up in Michigan. There's there's this effort in certain states to take Trump off the ballot, and he, You know, California just said, no. He's gonna be on the ballot, and, you know, things are, you know, in suspension Right now, waiting for a Supreme Court possibly to take up this whole issue. So Biden's the Democrats are really they're under the same clock as Republicans because the primaries are gonna happen beginning early next year. So this This candidate that you're envisioning, unnamed, unknown, won't be on the ballot. So are you seeing this happening at the convention, Steve?
Steve Palmer [:Yeah, or right before, Biden will either bow out
Norm Murdock [:because they gotta elect
Steve Palmer [:it or get impeached.
Norm Murdock [:Or her. They gotta elect somebody. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Bow Biden's gonna bow out on for health reasons or whatever.
Norm Murdock [:Before the convention.
Steve Palmer [:Before the convention, die
Norm Murdock [:Okay.
Steve Palmer [:Sadly Yeah. Or have a health crisis that would preclude him from running.
Norm Murdock [:Stroke or something. Yeah.
Steve Palmer [:Yeah. And it wouldn't surprise me if that happened, or he'll be impeached. 1 or the other. I mean, it it's like either way, there will be a reason for the Dembs to pull him from the ticket, find the candidate, and then sneak it in at the last minute. That's what happens. That's that's my proof.
Brett Johnson [:And and not ask him to give the blessing on the new candidate.
Steve Palmer [:Doesn't need to.
Brett Johnson [:Then need to.
Steve Palmer [:Then need to. Then then need to.
Brett Johnson [:Would be a detriment.
Steve Palmer [:Why? Because anything's better than Trump. That's how that's how the country's gonna look at this at that point. And if this if this if this mystical candidate that I'm envisioning just appears to look and act normally, then that's all they need to do.
Norm Murdock [:Yeah. Well, this whole thing's a casino. I mean, I I picked Trump to win the presidency. Just you know, that's just like I'm pulling that out of the air.
Steve Palmer [:Nope. I gotcha. Right? That that was the best I could come up with. Now As far as the stock market, I think I agree with you. I think it there it will correct. But like it all like always, it'll go it'll come back. And, you know, I'm no financial adviser. I've been contemplating after this conversation, I'm reshuffling my deck.
Norm Murdock [:Like Gold, gold right now, super high. You know, like, there's all these indicators.
Steve Palmer [:Right? It's like traditional indicators are there. Yeah. You know, it's really high and, you know, who knows? But, so I agree with you there. And that's really that's all I got. I got another predictions. I think,
Norm Murdock [:That's a huge one. That is. Wow. I love it. One. And I really I really like the, the the mental gymnastics Behind that state. That that's really awesome. You know? Like, I wanna see that get played out.
Steve Palmer [:Well, I think it will. And sadly, it'll be a Democrat who's president, and it we we are gonna get very little change as far as policy goes. Yeah. And what I predict for the future of the country if this continues much longer, I, you know, I shutter to think about it. So I guess, we're gonna wrap it up. That's been another fabulous episode and year of common sense ohio show .com. I should I wanted to add I did a little bit of research. You know, we do eat pork and, sauerkraut on New Year's.
Steve Palmer [:So I did a little reading as to why that is. It turns out, Norm, it's got some Ohio roots, mostly Pennsylvania, but Ohio too. Because the Germans would do this because the pigs apparently face forward when they eat or something like that. And that it's the idea is to look forward, so we're gonna eat pork. That's what Wikipedia said anyway or one of these places said. But the Germans bring that tradition to Pennsylvania, the Pennsylvania Dutch, which sort of spills up into Holmes County and some other places.
Brett Johnson [:Where do
Norm Murdock [:you think
Brett Johnson [:the pigs would come from? Cincinnati?
Steve Palmer [:There you go. Borgopolos. Right? Cincinnati. So touch
Brett Johnson [:their side at some point in time.
Steve Palmer [:I like it. So pigs are from Ohio, And, you eat pork and sauerkraut on New Year's because of Ohio, and that makes nothing but common sense, where you can check us out at commonsenseioshow.com. Like, share, please. Check us out online because next year, like this year, we're gonna be coming at you right from the middle at least until
