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Defending Democracy: The Battle for Kyiv
Episode 3 • 17th February 2023 • Democracy! The Podcast • CEPPS Advisor Adrienne Ross, Fmr Deputy Asst Secretary Strategic Communications, US Dept of State, Journalist
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On the morning of February 24, 2022, Russian troops blasted Kyiv with heavy artillery and missile strikes focusing their assault on several main targets including Boryspil International Airport.  While apparently intending to overtake the capital city quickly, Russian troops, instead, retreated after weeks of difficult fighting.  Today, home to 3.6 million people, Kyiv remains a hotly unwon part of Russia’s wide-scale military campaign. In “Defending Democracy: The Battle for Kyiv '', we take a closer look at all that lies there, the damage that has been done, and the danger that still exists.  

Plus, the country’s most famous mayor, the former world heavyweight boxing champ, Vitali Klitschko returns to the podcast with a candid account of what it takes to lead his hometown in war.  The son of a Soviet Air Force Officer and survivor of the Chernobyl nuclear disaster, Klitschko is a true defender of democracy who knows first-hand what’s in jeopardy.    

Plus, the war has turned more than 9 million Ukrainians into refugees.  One proud Kyvian who made her way to the United States sits down with Adrienne at the Florida International University's Washington, DC studio to tell her story and share just what it means to leave your family, flee your homeland, and all that you know in the midst of war.  

Key Links

Follow CEPPS on Twitter and Instagram.

Democracy! The Podcast is hosted by CEPPS and Adrienne Ross, with production assistance from Amy Radlinski and voiceover from Alix Lawson. Special thanks to Florida International University in Washington, DC for the generous access to their recording studio.

Featured guests in this episode: 

This podcast has been produced by the Consortium for Elections, and Political Process Strengthening through the Democratic Elections and Political Processes Cooperative Agreement and is made possible by the generous support of the American people through the United States Agency for International Development.

Opinions expressed here are those of the host and the guests and do not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the US Government.  

Democracy! The Podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Sam Walker of  Simpler Media Productions.



This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:

OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy

Transcripts

Adrienne Ross:

Welcome to Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast that shines light on some of the darkest challenges facing the

Adrienne Ross:

fight for democracy around the globe.

Adrienne Ross:

Brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political Process

Adrienne Ross:

Strengthening (CEPPS) in partnership and funding from our friends at the

Adrienne Ross:

United States Agency for International Development (USAID) through the

Adrienne Ross:

Democratic Elections Political Processes Cooperative Agreement.

Adrienne Ross:

I'm your host, Adrienne Ross.

Adrienne Ross:

In this Defending Democracy series, you've heard from a lot of

Adrienne Ross:

Ukrainians who were at home sleeping in the heart of Kyiv when Russia

Adrienne Ross:

attacked at dawn, February 24, 2022.

Adrienne Ross:

The Russian invasion marked a cataclysmic end to weeks of diplomatic

Adrienne Ross:

talks and months of Russian troop buildup along the Ukrainian border.

Adrienne Ross:

At the center of it all lay Kyiv, the nation's capitol.

Adrienne Ross:

Before Russia's invasion, 3.6 million people called this modern city home.

Adrienne Ross:

But as fighting grew, the highway west out of town became choked

Adrienne Ross:

with cars full of people fleeing.

Adrienne Ross:

Kyiv, after all, is where the country's state institutions, key decision-makers,

Adrienne Ross:

and treasures from Ukraine's rich history all exist, along with the famous mayor,

Adrienne Ross:

the former World Heavyweight Boxing champ and longtime friend of the consortium,

Adrienne Ross:

the Honorable Mayor, Vitali Klitschko.

Adrienne Ross:

We spoke to him last season, so of course I had to check back in with him now.

Adrienne Ross:

You'll hear in his own words what's at stake for all of Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

But first I want to give you a brief look at the history of this

Adrienne Ross:

capitol city with Alix Lawson.

Alix Lawson:

Before the war, Kyiv was Ukraine's most prosperous city.

Alix Lawson:

For thirty-two years, the capitol served as a living tribute to democracy, the site

Alix Lawson:

where Ukrainians came together from all over the country to defend hard-won gains

Alix Lawson:

for freedom during three revolutions.

Alix Lawson:

Kyiv's well-lit streets featured lush green spaces, chic restaurants,

Alix Lawson:

high-end shopping, and big festivals.

Alix Lawson:

Combined with solid infrastructure, public transportation, and a strong economy,

Alix Lawson:

the city was a democratic stronghold.

Alix Lawson:

Today, the golden domes of historic monasteries and churches like St.

Alix Lawson:

Sophia and St.

Alix Lawson:

Michael dot the horizon with the promise that Ukraine's deep spirituality and

Alix Lawson:

freedom of religion are still alive here.

Alix Lawson:

But if the Russians could seize this seat of power, or perhaps cause government

Alix Lawson:

officials to flee, the defense of the country would quickly unravel.

Alix Lawson:

Or at least that seemed to be the Kremlin's plan.

Alix Lawson:

Instead, Ukrainians fought back.

Alix Lawson:

Finally, after weeks of heavy shelling, Russian forces

Alix Lawson:

retreated from the city's limits.

Alix Lawson:

For now, while not on the front lines of this war, Kyiv continues

Alix Lawson:

to be a main target for Russia's missiles and kamikazi drones, putting

Alix Lawson:

ordinary citizens hundreds of miles from the front lines in harm's way.

Adrienne Ross:

One of those citizens is Natalia Yakymchuk.

Adrienne Ross:

For the past eighteen years, Natalia has called Kyiv home.

Adrienne Ross:

Before the war, she and her colleagues at the International Republican Institute

Adrienne Ross:

(IRI) trained hundreds of Ukrainian women to run for office and to talk

Adrienne Ross:

to voters on behalf of the consortium.

Adrienne Ross:

But, of course, that has all changed.

Adrienne Ross:

In fact, Natalia's whole life was upended last February.

Adrienne Ross:

She had just adopted a puppy the day before the war broke out.

Adrienne Ross:

Then, after a close call with a missile, Natalia made the courageous decision

Adrienne Ross:

to leave Kyiv for Washington, DC.

Adrienne Ross:

That's where I sat down with her in person.

Adrienne Ross:

Hear just how emotional it has been for her to embark on this part

Adrienne Ross:

adventure, part trip of survival.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

One morning, actually it was very scary because

Natalia Yakymchuk:

the rocket was flying near my house.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And, uh, after I was, uh, watching the video that was really like kind of

Natalia Yakymchuk:

one kilometers from my house, she just like, uh, flew through my house and

Natalia Yakymchuk:

after heated the railway infrastructure.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So that was probably the most dangerous, uh, moment for me

Natalia Yakymchuk:

because the sound was very loud.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And now I'm here.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

I am in Washington.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

It's so far from Ukraine.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

I was very emotional to come here because I had my flight scheduled for October

Natalia Yakymchuk:

11, and October 10, Kyiv and many, many cities in Ukraine was attacked by Russia.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So that was very difficult for me to fly and actually all the way in

Natalia Yakymchuk:

the plane I was crying because my family and many Ukrainians didn't have

Natalia Yakymchuk:

like electricity, internet, water.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Uh, no connections, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

My brother is in army and I worry about him.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Uh, my sister's husband, father, each Ukrainians has somebody friend, family

Natalia Yakymchuk:

member, colleague who is in frontline.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

It's kind of like parallel reality when you see another world.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Uh, for example, when I just came here to Washington.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

I was, you know, like, just like observing everything and

Natalia Yakymchuk:

I see like this normal life.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And uh, I understand it right now, at the same moment people dying in Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

We know you're here in Washington, but your heart is in Ukraine.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Yes, it is.

Adrienne Ross:

Uh, part of your work at IRI is to oversee

Adrienne Ross:

the Women's Democracy Network.

Adrienne Ross:

What has that work been like during the past year and why is it

Adrienne Ross:

important to focus on that work now?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

For example, before the election 2020, IRI under

Natalia Yakymchuk:

CEPPS umbrella did the campaigning trainings and we train 100 women how

Natalia Yakymchuk:

to build election campaign, how to talk to voters, how to be elected, yes?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And who is elected officials.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So we did this trainings and after, 30% of women were elected.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

When the war started, we designed a program supporting women-lead

Natalia Yakymchuk:

initiatives during the wartime.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So what we do now under this project, we, the WDN, provide psychological

Natalia Yakymchuk:

consultation to women IDPs, psychological consultation to women council

Natalia Yakymchuk:

members, to volunteers, to trainers.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We also provide legal consultations to women because so many women when

Natalia Yakymchuk:

they wanted to leave the dangerous places, for example, like from Eastern

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Ukraine, they just took their kids and they were not thinking about anything

Natalia Yakymchuk:

like documents, but they just were thinking about to save their lives.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So now when they are abroad or when they, um, in Western Ukraine, they

Natalia Yakymchuk:

are without documents, you know, and our lawyers help them to renovate this

Natalia Yakymchuk:

document such as like provide advises to which office women need to go.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

What legwork she need to do.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Another activity, uh, just recently, WDN organized the study trip for

Natalia Yakymchuk:

six women to Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

IRI just wanted to, uh, connect our women with, um, women and with

Natalia Yakymchuk:

politicians in Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Why we select this country?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Because in 90s, uh, these countries also supervised the war.

Adrienne Ross:

More than ever before, women are on the front lines.

Adrienne Ross:

I think something like 50,000 women are serving in the military?

Adrienne Ross:

How has that changing society right now and what has it been like for

Adrienne Ross:

you to witness that dedication?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Many women fighting on different fronts, yeah?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Like diplomatic fronts, on volunteers front, but to be on the front line?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They are heroes.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Every Ukrainian's had the feeling that you, that you doing not enough.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And even me, I had the feeling that maybe I need to join army, maybe I

Natalia Yakymchuk:

need to join medical battle unit.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Even I don't have any medical background, but I had this thought because like I was

Natalia Yakymchuk:

volunteering in the first days of the war.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

I was fundraising money.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Uh, with my sister we fundraised $10,000 and we bought the helmet, we bought

Natalia Yakymchuk:

the thermal imagers, so we bought the protective vest for our brothers' units.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And uh, even like we did like these jobs as volunteers, I was like feeling that

Natalia Yakymchuk:

maybe it's not enough because I saw these another women who are on the front line.

Adrienne Ross:

Have you had to buy a lot of supplies for your brother's unit?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We got so many things.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And not just for my brother because like, uh, these things for his unit

Natalia Yakymchuk:

and they're like, uh, 100 soldiers.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So, of course, like at that moment you were not thinking just about your

Natalia Yakymchuk:

brothers because like, you know, like if he will be, uh, feeling good because

Natalia Yakymchuk:

like he has helmet, but his, uh, friend doesn't have helmets, so it's will

Natalia Yakymchuk:

not help them as a team, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So we were supporting all, um, military units.

Adrienne Ross:

Switching gears a little bit, um, let's talk

Adrienne Ross:

about women running for office.

Adrienne Ross:

We've seen so many Ukrainian women abroad looking for help for Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

What has the war done to women's public role in Ukraine?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We have so many visits, uh, of Ukrainian MPs abroad.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And the really great, um, that Olena Zelenska, the first lady, she

Natalia Yakymchuk:

was a speaker in the US Congress.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She was speaker just recently in the Parliament of Great Britain, and she just

Natalia Yakymchuk:

tried to tell to politicians the separate stories, which Ukrainians just live today.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

For example, I remember that she told about the four-year-old Leeza

Natalia Yakymchuk:

who were going in the morning, just like had walk with her mother in the

Natalia Yakymchuk:

morning and a Russian missile hit and this four-year-old Leeza died.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Another story, it's about two days newborn baby.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

This newborn baby were killed in the maternity hospital because Russia

Natalia Yakymchuk:

missile hit the maternity hospital.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So who will know about the stories if not our women will talk about it.

Adrienne Ross:

How do you think their voices change the conversation?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Women can tell like these separate stories, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Because men, they can tell like, okay, we have like these numbers of people die.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We have like these numbers of people on, uh, military service.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So men could be like more formal, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And women, they also can like provide all these numbers, but

Natalia Yakymchuk:

they tell in like the stories and the stories can touch politicians.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

That the stories can touch people.

Adrienne Ross:

One of the women who I would imagine is, is considered quite

Adrienne Ross:

a hero in Ukraine, is the mayor who was killed recently with her whole

Adrienne Ross:

family outside of Kyiv when she refused to comply with the Russians' demands.

Adrienne Ross:

How has the war impacted women politicians, particularly in Ukraine,

Adrienne Ross:

and do you think they'll serve in the future, or is the cost become too great?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

You are talking about Olga Sukhenko.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She, she was the mayor of Matera, it is a village in the, in the Kyiv region.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And yeah, she, she paid the high price.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She's dead now with her family, with her husband, and with her son because she

Natalia Yakymchuk:

didn't want to collaborate with Russians.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

[Deep sigh] and it's so dangerous because today you can be killed

Natalia Yakymchuk:

[choking up] because you are Ukrainian and you speak Ukrainian.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And now people in occupied cities they just, you know, need to,

Natalia Yakymchuk:

need to be fight for their life.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They need to be the Ukrainian because Russian can kill them.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

[Pauses to gather herself.] So, but, but our people will continue to fight.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

My colleague and partner, Irina Slovich, she's the head of Women

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Democracy Network in Ukraine.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She was living in Manitoba, and this city is occupied now.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So she was staying in Mariupol, one month under occupation.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And she was in the bombing shelter.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She tried to escape the city several times with her daughter and with

Natalia Yakymchuk:

her husband, but it was not able.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And one day the council member of the Padishah Regional Council was

Natalia Yakymchuk:

kidnapped and she said like, oh my gosh, I'm worried about myself.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And she decided to leave city one more time.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And she was successful.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And just next day when she leave the city, the Russian occupiers came to her

Natalia Yakymchuk:

husband and they kidnapped her husband.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And after one day, uh, she was able to contact him and he said, you

Natalia Yakymchuk:

know, like Russian occupiers took me.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They ask like, where is your wife?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Because we know that she's very active.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She's actually the advisor to Meijer in Manitoba.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And Mayor of Manitoba, also was kidnapped.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And uh, they ask like, okay, will she be back?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And he said, probably no, because she's scared of your life.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They said, okay, tell your wife that we know that you are here.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We know the address of your home.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We know like the address of, uh, I don't know, like of your summer house.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They knew everything, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

They just, I don't know how they collected this data, but they

Natalia Yakymchuk:

knew everything about your family.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And they said to her, her husband, just like we want your wife be like

Natalia Yakymchuk:

more quiet because you are here under occupation and if she will do something

Natalia Yakymchuk:

like we can take you, you know?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

But she is now, of course, like in Germany, and, uh, she said that of

Natalia Yakymchuk:

course she will be back to her home when the city will be liberated.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And she believes that the, that her city will be liberated because of the

Natalia Yakymchuk:

story of the mayor who was killed.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Even the story that her husband was kidnapped and the Russian

Natalia Yakymchuk:

occupiers asked for her?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

She's not dangerous, you know, because like she believes like we

Natalia Yakymchuk:

will, uh, liberate our cities and who will rebuild our country if not we?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Ukraine will win this war.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We now need one thing.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We need world to support us more.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

We need world to support us with weapon, but now we are in the

Natalia Yakymchuk:

very difficult, we, we just like struggle very difficult times.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

People do not have electricity, people do not have mobile connection,

Natalia Yakymchuk:

internet connection, uh, water supply.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

No heating, but you know, like the, the, the big and happy moment will be like when

Natalia Yakymchuk:

we will have no Russian in our country.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

So we can survive everything and um, we just need, uh, world to help us.

Adrienne Ross:

If there's one thing you could tell everybody

Adrienne Ross:

about Ukraine, what would it be?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Ukraine is, uh, the best place to live, and it's proud to

Natalia Yakymchuk:

be Ukrainian because it's our land.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And, um, we don't have other home, and you know, like why Russia

Natalia Yakymchuk:

wanted to occupy our territories?

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Because probably Russia knows that it is the best place in the world.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

And our people, they are very brave.

Adrienne Ross:

Natalia Yakymchuk, thank you so much for joining us today.

Natalia Yakymchuk:

Thank you very much, Adrienne.

Adrienne Ross:

Among the bravest of Ukraine's citizens are

Adrienne Ross:

arguably the country's mayors.

Adrienne Ross:

In many cases, they regularly risk their lives to bring order, compassion,

Adrienne Ross:

and courage to their hometowns.

Adrienne Ross:

Yet, as we've seen throughout this Defending Democracy series, Ukraine's

Adrienne Ross:

mayors are highly desired targets.

Adrienne Ross:

Few are as well-known throughout the world as the Mayor of Kyiv, Vitali Klitschko.

Adrienne Ross:

Famous in the boxing ring for his formidable height and skill,

Adrienne Ross:

the former heavyweight champ was elected Mayor of Kyiv in 2014.

Adrienne Ross:

He's also the son of a Soviet Air Force officer and survivor of the

Adrienne Ross:

1986 Chernobyl nuclear disaster.

Adrienne Ross:

Mayor Klitschko knows exactly what he's fighting for, and he says no

Adrienne Ross:

one wants to go back to the USSR.

Vitali Klitschko:

Actually, in this war, every citizen of Ukraine is target.

Vitali Klitschko:

And, uh, yes, of course leaders of communities, uh, mayors of cities

Vitali Klitschko:

was all first target for Russians.

Vitali Klitschko:

And, uh, more than thirty, uh, mayors of cities in Ukraine

Vitali Klitschko:

was kidnapped in this time.

Vitali Klitschko:

And, uh, I guess seven mayors right now disappeared.

Vitali Klitschko:

We don't know where, where the mayors and, uh, we hope they still alive.

Vitali Klitschko:

Actually, right now is strange time for everyone.

Vitali Klitschko:

And, uh, the mayor is responsible for services in our communities.

Vitali Klitschko:

And we see what happens right now in Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's, uh, everything is lie from Russians.

Vitali Klitschko:

They talk about special operations war.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's not the special operations, it's genocide.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's terrorism.

Vitali Klitschko:

They want to kill everyone, or everyone have to leave our country and

Vitali Klitschko:

make, uh, country free for Russians.

Vitali Klitschko:

They need Ukraine without Ukrainians.

Adrienne Ross:

They just want your land.

Adrienne Ross:

They don't care if you're in it.

Vitali Klitschko:

They don't care about the people.

Vitali Klitschko:

They, uh, need property.

Vitali Klitschko:

And, uh, Putin present himself, uh, as collector Russian property

Vitali Klitschko:

and told we never accept the, the Ukraine have independence.

Vitali Klitschko:

Ukraine is, never was a country, and, uh, it's all Russian Empire.

Vitali Klitschko:

And his crazy idea to rebuild Russian Empire, to rebuild Soviet Empire.

Vitali Klitschko:

And they talking right now in Poland, Baltic countries, and they

Vitali Klitschko:

go as far we allow them to go.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that's why we fighting and defending right now, not just

Vitali Klitschko:

our families and our homes.

Vitali Klitschko:

We defending another European country.

Vitali Klitschko:

We defending right now whole world from this crazy idea.

Vitali Klitschko:

We defending democracy because we have our wish to build modern

Vitali Klitschko:

European democratic country.

Adrienne Ross:

We see you here in the United States on video all the time.

Adrienne Ross:

You're out.

Adrienne Ross:

You're in the city.

Adrienne Ross:

You're with your people.

Adrienne Ross:

Are you still doing that?

Adrienne Ross:

Is that too dangerous for you to do now?

Vitali Klitschko:

Yes, of course, it's dangerous for everyone, uh, in our

Vitali Klitschko:

hometown because any second everyone have to go to the shelters, to the bunkers,

Vitali Klitschko:

uh, because it's, uh, any second the Russians' strike destroyed any buildings.

Vitali Klitschko:

By the way, it's our hometown.

Vitali Klitschko:

Kyiv was not the front line, but in our hometowns destroyed 678

Vitali Klitschko:

buildings, 350 apartments building, and killed 152 citizens, four children.

Adrienne Ross:

Can you take us back to the first few days of the

Adrienne Ross:

invasion and the battle for Kyiv?

Adrienne Ross:

Could you believe that the war had even started?

Vitali Klitschko:

Actually we have, uh, a lot of information from our

Vitali Klitschko:

partners, but uh, in the last second, we don't believe in, um, uh, modern

Vitali Klitschko:

time, in present time to make a war.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's the biggest war after the second World War right now

Vitali Klitschko:

what has happened in Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

To be honest, don't believe this can happens, but today

Vitali Klitschko:

we see the hard reality.

Adrienne Ross:

What's it been like to do your job the last year?

Vitali Klitschko:

The city Kyiv is, uh, largest, uh, city in Ukraine,

Vitali Klitschko:

is largest city in East Europe.

Vitali Klitschko:

Uh, 3.6 million citizens right now in our hometown.

Vitali Klitschko:

And we're responsible for services for our citizens.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's electricity, water, heating, and all services for our citizens.

Vitali Klitschko:

And it's this critical time, if the infrastructure is destroyed,

Vitali Klitschko:

the economy doesn't work.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's, uh, it is during the war it's big challenge.

Vitali Klitschko:

Challenge every day what we have to give the services to everyone.

Vitali Klitschko:

The people need help.

Vitali Klitschko:

We working non-stop because, uh, we doesn't have a break and city,

Vitali Klitschko:

uh, leave and need services 24/7.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that why we're responsible for that.

Vitali Klitschko:

We're responsible for lives of the people and that why is job no, non-stop.

Vitali Klitschko:

If you ask me about the last 300 days I have feeling it's one long, long day.

Vitali Klitschko:

Nonstop.

Adrienne Ross:

I've understood you workout every single day, you're in

Adrienne Ross:

fantastic shape, but aren't you tired?

Vitali Klitschko:

[Sigh, small chuckle] Uh, it's not easy, but I have sport

Vitali Klitschko:

background and, uh, that why I'm strong.

Vitali Klitschko:

I'm strong and, uh, I don't want to complain.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's not easy, but I'm strong, powerful, and that why I never give up

Vitali Klitschko:

and I still fighting for my hometown.

Adrienne Ross:

Last time we spoke, you talked about Kyiv

Adrienne Ross:

being a leader for all of Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

What role do you think the city itself plays now and you as its mayor?

Adrienne Ross:

Sounds like you think you need to stay strong for the country.

Vitali Klitschko:

Yeah, Kyiv is capital of Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

Yes, of course, uh, the Kyiv was and still target of, of Russians.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's very important to support another cities also because we

Vitali Klitschko:

have much more possibility to help.

Vitali Klitschko:

We help to Kharkiv, to Kherson, to Mykolaiv, and to give support to everyone.

Vitali Klitschko:

We thinking about the our patriots who right now the front line in cold

Vitali Klitschko:

weather conditions without electricity, without heating, without water.

Vitali Klitschko:

They fighting and pay for our freedom.

Vitali Klitschko:

Biggest price is lives.

Vitali Klitschko:

Just thinking about that is huge motivation for every one of us.

Vitali Klitschko:

It is very important to be present.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's very important to be together with people.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's very important to give the objective, uh, and real information,

Vitali Klitschko:

and to give it to everyone the feeling we care about everyone in our hometown.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that's why I spend a lot of time every day in Kyiv in the

Vitali Klitschko:

street to talk to the people.

Adrienne Ross:

Have you had a hard time getting true information out the door?

Adrienne Ross:

Are you being bombarded with misinformation and disinformation?

Vitali Klitschko:

The information today is, uh, much more important than

Vitali Klitschko:

weapons, uh, bullets, planes, tanks is, uh, it's very important to give

Vitali Klitschko:

objective, true information to everyone.

Vitali Klitschko:

As Russians also try to bring the disinformation to Ukraine

Vitali Klitschko:

and also in Europe and the world.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that why I talking so much to, uh, other countries, to other mayors.

Vitali Klitschko:

I give reports about current situation in, in Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's very important.

Vitali Klitschko:

Objective information is main priority for whole world today.

Adrienne Ross:

Can you talk a little bit about why you've been

Adrienne Ross:

renaming the streets in Kyiv?

Vitali Klitschko:

It's a lot of, uh, streets, uh, have a name from Soviet time.

Vitali Klitschko:

They have a name from cities, which right now aggressive to Ukraine, and that's

Vitali Klitschko:

why we decide to rename the streets.

Vitali Klitschko:

For example, Moscow Streets.

Vitali Klitschko:

Eh-eh.

Vitali Klitschko:

Much, much better to rename the streets London Streets [chuckle] as Moscow.

Vitali Klitschko:

Russia is so aggressive, bring so many trouble, bring so many debt

Vitali Klitschko:

for our country, and that why it's not just my wishes, wish from our

Vitali Klitschko:

citizens to rename the streets.

Vitali Klitschko:

We make a polls and we asking for which name we have to rename the

Vitali Klitschko:

streets and uh, our citizens decide.

Vitali Klitschko:

And decision of citizens is rule for us, and we do that.

Adrienne Ross:

Can you talk a little bit about how it was growing up

Adrienne Ross:

under Communist rule in the USSR?

Adrienne Ross:

How has that made you such a believer in democracy?

Vitali Klitschko:

As happens, our father was air force

Vitali Klitschko:

officer and he was Communist.

Vitali Klitschko:

And we know how big influence have solid propaganda for every one of us.

Vitali Klitschko:

And as sportsman have a chance after Perestroika time to travel around the

Vitali Klitschko:

world, to, uh, spend a lot of time in the Europe and the United States.

Vitali Klitschko:

And I understand that everything what we receive, uh, uh, years long in

Vitali Klitschko:

Soviet time is was lie, lie about, um, uh, United States, lie about Europe.

Vitali Klitschko:

I know better than anyone, uh, because my background from

Vitali Klitschko:

Soviet Union, how bad a system.

Vitali Klitschko:

And my short message to Mr.

Vitali Klitschko:

Putin, we never was, want back to USSR.

Vitali Klitschko:

Our future as part of European family, as democratic country, and that's

Vitali Klitschko:

why we fighting for our future.

Vitali Klitschko:

We don't want back to USSR.

Adrienne Ross:

I think also it probably helps you understand

Adrienne Ross:

the Russian think right now?

Vitali Klitschko:

Uh, yes, of course.

Vitali Klitschko:

I am understand that pretty well.

Vitali Klitschko:

Russians doesn't have objective information.

Vitali Klitschko:

The Russians, uh, give as poison the, uh, lie to everyone.

Vitali Klitschko:

Uh, they're talking about the great Russia, it's whole world against

Vitali Klitschko:

Russia, the whole world, uh, to want to attack Russia as they

Vitali Klitschko:

explain about Ukraine as fascists, nationalists, and, uh, radicals country.

Vitali Klitschko:

We hate Russians.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's everything liar.

Vitali Klitschko:

And uh, they definitely give main question to Russian government,

Vitali Klitschko:

for which reason died my son, my husband, my brother, my relative.

Vitali Klitschko:

We defend not just our homeland, not just our homes and our families,

Vitali Klitschko:

we defend the same ones what we have in the United States, what

Vitali Klitschko:

we have in the democratic world.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that why we fighting for every one of you.

Adrienne Ross:

Is that the most, the single most important message you want

Adrienne Ross:

people to understand about this war?

Vitali Klitschko:

Everyone have to understand, if we want to live in

Vitali Klitschko:

the peace, if we want to live in the freedom, please stay with Ukraine

Vitali Klitschko:

because we fighting right now.

Vitali Klitschko:

First of all, of democracy, we see our country as democratic

Vitali Klitschko:

country, largest country in Europe.

Vitali Klitschko:

Ukraine have to be democratic countries.

Vitali Klitschko:

We are fighting for that.

Vitali Klitschko:

We are fighting for future of our children.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's very painful to see young kids injured, no legs, no arms

Vitali Klitschko:

in the hospitals, talk to them, and, uh, they so motivated.

Vitali Klitschko:

They so, uh, motivated to stay healthy and coming back and defend our homeland.

Vitali Klitschko:

And after discussion with our patriots, always I think I'm

Vitali Klitschko:

very proud to be Ukrainian.

Vitali Klitschko:

The work today totally changed life for everyone in Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

Everyone understand how important to be winner today, how

Vitali Klitschko:

important to defend our vision.

Vitali Klitschko:

We see bad results of Russia uh, with authority.

Vitali Klitschko:

Uh, no press of freedom in Russia.

Vitali Klitschko:

No human rights.

Vitali Klitschko:

No opposition and no rules authority.

Vitali Klitschko:

We don't want to live in authority and that why we fighting

Vitali Klitschko:

right now for better future.

Vitali Klitschko:

And we need support from our partners.

Adrienne Ross:

And I know some of that is military support, but what else?

Adrienne Ross:

What is your number one need right now?

Vitali Klitschko:

Safety is main priority for everyone in our homeland.

Vitali Klitschko:

And that why every day, uh, we listen, uh, alarm where we have

Vitali Klitschko:

to go immediately to shelters.

Vitali Klitschko:

And today, 302nd day of the war.

Vitali Klitschko:

In this period of time, it's been one month in, in this year every Ukrainian

Vitali Klitschko:

spent in underground, in the shelters.

Vitali Klitschko:

And uh, it's a difficult time.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's a lot of challenges.

Vitali Klitschko:

But every Ukrainian is strong and, uh, we show our character and

Vitali Klitschko:

our will to live with democracy.

Vitali Klitschko:

Without your help, we can't survive.

Vitali Klitschko:

We very appreciate and never forget you help.

Vitali Klitschko:

Life important for us.

Vitali Klitschko:

Life important to feel we are not alone.

Vitali Klitschko:

We are together and give to us much more power.

Adrienne Ross:

What do you look forward to the most when this war ends?

Vitali Klitschko:

Do you believe or not, my children in, um, almost

Vitali Klitschko:

one year outside of the country, and I didn't see my children.

Vitali Klitschko:

I didn't see my family, and, uh, my biggest wish to hanging, uh, up the

Vitali Klitschko:

children, kissing children again.

Vitali Klitschko:

And it's main priority for me.

Adrienne Ross:

Bet they can't wait to see you, too.

Vitali Klitschko:

Yeah, yeah.

Vitali Klitschko:

We, uh, talking to through the Skype, but uh, it's not a real contact to the

Vitali Klitschko:

family, and I have a dream to celebrate new year, Christmas together as family.

Adrienne Ross:

It's hard to get hugs through FaceTime.

Vitali Klitschko:

Yeah, it's di, difficult hugs, uh, through FaceTime, but, uh,

Vitali Klitschko:

it's my, you asking about my dream?

Vitali Klitschko:

I give you answer.

Adrienne Ross:

It's a good answer, sir.

Adrienne Ross:

It's hard to match that.

Vitali Klitschko:

If someone think the war far away, if someone think the war doesn't

Vitali Klitschko:

touch him personally, biggest mistake.

Vitali Klitschko:

This war actually touched everyone in Europe.

Vitali Klitschko:

This war actually can touch everyone in the world.

Vitali Klitschko:

We have to do everything possible to stop this senseless war

Vitali Klitschko:

and unity with our country.

Vitali Klitschko:

Support of Ukraine is a key for peace and freedom, not just

Vitali Klitschko:

in Europe, around the world.

Vitali Klitschko:

And one more time, thank you for everyone who support Ukraine.

Vitali Klitschko:

We need you support.

Vitali Klitschko:

It's life important for us, and please don't forget, we

Vitali Klitschko:

fighting for every one of you.

Adrienne Ross:

The Honorable Mayor Klitschko, thank you

Adrienne Ross:

so much for joining us today.

Vitali Klitschko:

Welcome, welcome.

Vitali Klitschko:

Thank you for the support.

Adrienne Ross:

So far, Kyivans have renamed nearly 100 of the city streets

Adrienne Ross:

as part of their effort to erase Russian and Soviet names from the

Adrienne Ross:

city, and instead, honor Ukraine's more than thirty years of independence.

Adrienne Ross:

On the next episode, "Victory for your Ukraine is to succeed

Adrienne Ross:

in democratic transformation."

Adrienne Ross:

The 2022 Nobel Laureate, Oleksandra Matviichuk, wants justice for thousands

Adrienne Ross:

of Ukrainian war crime victims.

Adrienne Ross:

Plus, is Ukraine fighting two wars?

Adrienne Ross:

The head of President Zelensky's anti-corruption task force has answers as

Adrienne Ross:

we look ahead to the future of Ukraine.

Adrienne Ross:

Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast is brought to you by the Consortium for Elections and Political

Adrienne Ross:

Process strengthening through the Democratic Elections Political Processes

Adrienne Ross:

Cooperative Agreement, and is made possible by the generous support of the

Adrienne Ross:

American people through the United States Agency for International Development.

Adrienne Ross:

Opinions expressed here are those of the hosts and the guests, and do

Adrienne Ross:

not necessarily reflect the views of USAID or the United States Government.

Adrienne Ross:

This podcast is produced by Evo Terra and Sam Walker of Simpler Media Productions.

Adrienne Ross:

For more information on Democracy!

Adrienne Ross:

The Podcast, and to access the complete archives, please visit CEPPS.org/podcast.

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