Do you find yourself struggling with fear, anxiety, or depression? Is the idea of overcoming it overwhelming and difficult to navigate? You are not alone!

Ali Gentry- a national speaker, radio host, and adventurist- joins us to explain how to desensitize our lives and start living a life of peace.

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Host

You're listening to the No Gray Areas podcast with Patrick McCalla. Today's guest is Allie Gentry, national speaker, radio host and adventurist. She shows us how to desensitize our lives and start living a life of peace. Let's dove in.

Patrick McCalla

Allie Gentry, thank you so much for being on the No Gray Areas podcast. I think we met a couple of weeks ago or maybe two months ago, right? Mutual friend.

Ali Gentry

Patty Wyatt. She's also been on here. Yep.

Patrick McCalla

Well, yeah, you were on her podcast recently, and she was on our podcast and I was on her podcast. So yeah, we're just we're all trading podcast.

Ali Gentry

I love it. I love it.

Patrick McCalla

But yeah.

Ali Gentry

Hear.

Patrick McCalla

Connected with you right away because you're your national speaker, right? You do a lot of you. You speak at your church often as well. You have a podcast as well. Tell us more.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, I get to do a little bit of a lot of things. And but.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, I have a radio show podcast here in Arizona, and the podcast is also on YouTube now called the Vibrant Life Show.

Ali Gentry

OK and.

Ali Gentry

Got the honor of doing that. Started it last June or so. And then I also run a an event, a monthly event called Arise, which is here in Phenix. Women from all over the city, different denominations, backgrounds, everything.

Ali Gentry

We come together once a month and worship and spend time together, and we have speakers, panels, all that stuff, which is so exciting. And yeah, run a nonprofit called Vibrant Ministries, too. So it's been a blast.

Patrick McCalla

You don't get for it.

Ali Gentry

I do sometimes, like I say, if you're going to be single this late in life, you better find some awesome and fun stuff to do. You've got to fill the time lord.

Patrick McCalla

Well, and you actually are part owner of a of a franchise that some people may have heard of, right? Tell us about that.

Ali Gentry

It's a little football team called the Green Bay Packers. Yeah. Yes.

Patrick McCalla

Sorry about what happened recently. That was heartbreaking for her.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, it still hurts.

Ali Gentry

I mean, it just was really tough to watch them not play.

Ali Gentry

Well and lose. Yeah. And so but yeah, I'm a I'm as a part owner of the franchise now that I can finally say it's a little bit harder to take. But yes.

Patrick McCalla

When I sent you that email about this podcast, I started the email. I'm so sorry.

Ali Gentry

So sorry.

Patrick McCalla

Because I knew you were a big Bay Packers fan, so.

Ali Gentry

Appreciate the condolences. Yes, I'm still in mourning, but.

Patrick McCalla

But when you say part owner, some people, some people might be confused by that. So explain that.

Ali Gentry

Okay, here's the deal. Yeah, you can buy stock in the Green Bay Packers for not a lot of money.

Patrick McCalla

So you're not a billionaire.

Ali Gentry

So I'm, you know, not a billionaire. It's not this huge thing really green. The Green Bay Packers are the only.

Ali Gentry

Team in the NFL that operates this way, and people are able just.

Ali Gentry

Anybody.

Ali Gentry

Can buy stock in it for a certain amount of time until they're bought up and then they reopen it years later. Really, we don't have any say in it.

Ali Gentry

We get to vote one time of year on stadium maintenance, and that's basically it. But we do it just for the bragging rights of, I mean.

Patrick McCalla

What other what other fan gets to say. I'm part owner of my team.

Ali Gentry

Truly, no.

Ali Gentry

Other team can.

Ali Gentry

Yeah. So that's.

Patrick McCalla

That's impressive. Yeah. Well, today we're going to talk about anxiety and depression, and it's something that many humans have always struggled with this. But but because of what's been happening in our world, I think because young people, it's unprecedented what they're dealing with.

Patrick McCalla

I mean, growing up has always been difficult, right? Those teenage years, middle school junior high girls are the most cruel people on this planet to each other, right?

Ali Gentry

I can attest to that. Yes.

Patrick McCalla

And it's always been that way. But now there's just another level because of social media and everything. So this is something that we're really seeing in an unprecedented way. Right? You're seeing it. Yes.

Ali Gentry

And yeah, and so I really.

Ali Gentry

Believe that our social media, our access to information, actually, it's not just social media, but I would say television news has changed. It's 24-7. We have the internet. We have access to so much information and more information than our brains have to truly digest and understand or even feel and empathize.

Patrick McCalla

And most of that information isn't really good information, right? Like most of the news we're getting isn't what someone did on the other side of the world. That was good. It's a tsunami killed this many people. This serial killer is right.

Patrick McCalla

That's the kind of news we're ingesting.

Ali Gentry

It's very much fear based or pain based event. And I think that that fear is what's driving the clicks or the big stories are what get more clicks and OK, this person help this person on the other side of the world.

Ali Gentry

And I understand to some extent why it does, and our hearts will break for certain things that are going on. And you know, it's beautiful to be able to come alongside people around the world who are going through things now if we see it and in our very particular and how much we're digesting of it.

Ali Gentry

And I think what's also happening at the same time is we can't digest all of.

Ali Gentry

The.

Ali Gentry

Hard and tough and painful things we're seeing and.

Ali Gentry

The people who are, you know, just.

Ali Gentry

Whether it's politics or, you know, things that are happening around the world are just awful. We don't know how to necessarily explain it, but I. Think that we're losing empathy because we can't actually feel all the things that we're designed to feel in that moment because it's onto the next.

Ali Gentry

And so we're we're almost having to tune out and numb out, but we're not created to live a life that's numbed.

Patrick McCalla

We almost lose our compassion and empathy toward, you know, hearing about a, you know, a mother that lost a child or something. But we've heard so many bad things today that we almost just just for self-preservation have to have to almost, you know, ignore some of that, right?

Patrick McCalla

So what you're.

Ali Gentry

Saying, yeah.

Ali Gentry

You get into a self-protective mode. And I think to some extent, that's the.

Ali Gentry

We have to to make it or else we would be just distraught all.

Ali Gentry

The time. But you know, at the same time, I mean, Paul, in scripture, I mean, because of the more knowledge he had and he saw the suffering, the more that he mourned with them and he cried with them.

Ali Gentry

But he also had joy said, to take joy in your suffering. So because you know that this is not your home, and I think if we could see those situations and if we have an eternal mindset like we do in faith and we're like, OK.

Ali Gentry

This world is not our home.

Ali Gentry

We actually have a hope that's beyond what we're seeing with our own eyes, then we can take joy that one day.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, every year. Well, we wiped away.

Ali Gentry

All of this. There will be no pain. There will be no suffering any longer. And if we can hold on to that, then it'll give us that drive to tell other people about the hope and the joy that we have when it would make no sense.

Ali Gentry

Yeah. And so as believers, especially, but I think in general, we are living in such a fear based society that we don't even know how to handle it. And so we're shutting down and we're isolating instead of engaging in our lives.

Ali Gentry

And when we isolate, that's when a lot of times as we're in that depression and anxiety come in because we'll isolate from the people in the community that we're called to instead of just like a little community that used to.

Ali Gentry

Be before we got all.

Ali Gentry

Of this information. Now our communities.

Ali Gentry

Are expanded around the world.

Ali Gentry

And what happens in that, too is we're getting desensitized and we're being overwhelmed.

Patrick McCalla

Boy, that's a key word, right there. Isn't it desensitized? Like, that's a key word, isn't it? Yeah. You know, you know, as you're talking, I was thinking, I've never thought of this until you were just saying this, that we've become almost like first responders.

Patrick McCalla

Like, we've always known that first responders have have to deal with things and they and they have to almost protect themselves in the moment. They can't sit down like they're in a they're called to a scene and maybe there's a little child that was hurt or killed and and they can't, like, sit down and feel the empathy

Patrick McCalla

and weep at that moment. And so they have to cover that up. But what we've known, it's been proven through studies that that eventually comes out and in unhealthy ways, and they have the PTSD and all that. But what you're bringing up is that because of all the social media and the news and the fear based, we're

Patrick McCalla

almost all in that area now.

Ali Gentry

And then when do we have time to work through? It comes out later in some way, but we're still being fed every day, all of these things. And then and then you add in social media with comparison to other people's lives that other people didn't have.

Ali Gentry

The the access to what other people's lives always looked like. Supposedly quote air quotes. Yeah.

Ali Gentry

And so in that we're adding in comparison, which adds on to the anxiety, but we are being desensitized because we we don't know when to process all of this information, and it's coming out through ways. I think that none of us really enjoy, but we also don't know what to do.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, yeah. And so I've just seen the especially in young people, and I have the honor and privilege of speaking to so many youth groups or university age college-age young adults who are walking through this right now, who don't know life without technology in their hands.

Ali Gentry

Like I gratefully and the side of a millennial where I remember life before.

Ali Gentry

Having technology in front of me and all this information.

Patrick McCalla

But but you still you still had the wireless telephone, didn't you like you had your little antenna that they bought, right? Yes. See, I remember the telephone that was hooked to the wall cord. Yeah, and it was rotary dial.

Ali Gentry

That's how oh, my goodness.

Patrick McCalla

Oh yes. Yes, I can't believe. I know, I know. It's it's it's it's hard to imagine that we had, but we're talking about just a couple of generations we went from, like literally I turned 50 this year, so I just turned 50.

Patrick McCalla

And I remember growing up rotary telephone multiple, you had to pick it up because it's a party line and you have to listen to Steve when he was. You don't even know what I'm talking about.

Ali Gentry

But then heard about this before.

Patrick McCalla

But she thought it was like 18 hundred. No, it wasn't. It was like the early eighties. And then we went to, you know, well, then you had a phone, but you could walk around the house with it to now like these younger generations, what you're saying, they're growing up and they don't know anything different than be able

Patrick McCalla

to get news from around the world constantly comparison. Most of it's Fear-Based. So that's where they're dealing with stuff that's really unprecedented.

Ali Gentry

I would also say, yes, absolutely. And it's fear based, or they're trying to pinpoint some an insecurity in.

Ali Gentry

Them.

Ali Gentry

To get them to purchase, to buy marketing. Marketing goes at your insecurities because that's why it makes it. Not all marketing, but do you know what I'm saying in exact instance where it's like, OK, well, you want this, you want to be more like.

Ali Gentry

And so this it's this.

Ali Gentry

Poll to feel like where you.

Ali Gentry

Are is not enough, who you are is not enough. And yeah, I think that God is a god of transfer. I know that God's a god of transformation. And so we're always on a journey and growth and we can improve and there's things we can do.

Ali Gentry

But I think sometimes the world plays on our insecurities for.

Ali Gentry

Money, for sure.

Ali Gentry

Purposes only, and that's not in our best interest. So we have to learn how to safeguard those types of things and to be on watch for the next generations behind us. How can.

Ali Gentry

We, as the adults in this situation right now, set up the.

Ali Gentry

Next generation to see how technology information, all those things are amoral and of themselves? They aren't naturally necessarily bad or good, but it's how we decide to process and what we can do. So we need to help set up ourselves, first of all.

Ali Gentry

And.

Ali Gentry

Figure out what's going on and then set up the next generation to be healthy, to be whole and to remember that there is more to life than just staring at a screen.

Patrick McCalla

Well, I'm glad you just brought up which you did, because you're saying, first of all, to make sure we're handling it correctly and then to reach back to the next generation because we're talking about how this this younger generation is unprecedented.

Patrick McCalla

This is all they've known. But for me, it's not all I've known, but yet it's still what I'm dealing with. So if I'm not careful, I'm ingesting this stuff where you're saying, I just don't have the margin to deal with this.

Patrick McCalla

I don't have the empathy to deal with this. So it's not just the young generation. We're all dealing with this now, right?

Ali Gentry

Absolutely. And I would even say I dealt with anxiety and depression. I would say even depression. More so anxiety as I got older now that I understand kind of the difference between the two, but I dealt with depression since honestly, since at least junior high.

Ali Gentry

Yeah. And I mean, you.

Patrick McCalla

Didn't know that.

Ali Gentry

At the time. I didn't. You didn't know that.

Ali Gentry

And now it's more known so people can voice it. But I think sometimes when we just voice things without doing something with it, we're still stuck there. Yeah. And now now a lot of people can say I'm depressed or anxious because we now are.

Ali Gentry

Like a little bit more vulnerable as a society to say those things.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, but I didn't even understand the concept of it as a junior higher. But I've been with junior hires now who understand that concept to some extent. Now they can voice it, which is good. So what do we do with that?

Ali Gentry

Yeah, but I do. I dealt with that for many years in and outflows of depression and bouts of anxiety, and to the point where I did not want to even be here anymore. And I was at the age of 23 where I almost took my own life and God met me in that moment.

Ali Gentry

Like, that's the moment because I was so depressed and I was so like, There has to be more than this, but I can't see it. I can't see another way out or another option, and I can't do that.

Ali Gentry

I can't handle this anymore. And in that moment, I remember praying and asking God, just like I knew God was real. I grew up in a church.

Ali Gentry

A pastor's kid. So, yeah, but I had.

Ali Gentry

Strayed from the church. I was.

Ali Gentry

Running the complete other.

Ali Gentry

Direction to try and find something that fill that void within me and a community that accepted me as I was. But I realized that the world doesn't. They might accept you for who you are, but they're never going to call you higher and to be more than where you are.

Ali Gentry

The hope isn't found out in the world.

Patrick McCalla

OK, wait, can you say that again? Yeah, say that again. That was really good. You might accept you for who you are, but they're.

Ali Gentry

Not going to call you higher. And to be more than you are. And that hope that.

Ali Gentry

Only I believe.

Ali Gentry

Only because I've.

Ali Gentry

Tried every other way to let me say that like, I have literally tried every.

Ali Gentry

Other way to find hope, to try and find purpose, find meaning to get me out of the pit that I was in.

Ali Gentry

Nothing. Only it only.

Ali Gentry

Put me back. I probably dug deeper even deeper, to be honest. And I was lost and I was looking at all these people who were like, Oh, you're fine, it's OK that you're doing those things. It's OK, like and and I think it's because everybody else is there and they're like.

Ali Gentry

Well, I want you to be OK because I want to be OK. Yeah. And so you're get into this cycle.

Ali Gentry

Of looking around and being like, actually, there's has to be more than this. And if there's not more than this.

Patrick McCalla

I can't do this. Yeah, there's not a lot of hope in that.

Ali Gentry

Right? None. None.

Ali Gentry

And I just looked around thinking, OK, and there I was, running from the church and the community that could.

Ali Gentry

Did have hope.

Ali Gentry

Trying to find, you know. And I realized I said, God, just take me to heaven. I just don't want to be here. You know, and I gave him an ultimatum.

Ali Gentry

And I prayed and I said, God, by the time I count down to one, you got to take me home because.

Ali Gentry

I can't do this. And I was I was yelling and my in my closet and just on the floor crying. And by the time I got to the number four I remember counting down out loud is so serious about it.

Ali Gentry

And I just felt this overwhelming peace flood over me. And I remember God, yes, I just felt in on my spirit that it was. I was spoken to Ali, you know that I love you. Mm-Hmm. You know that.

Ali Gentry

But it's time to make a choice. Either follow after me wholeheartedly. And come after me with all I have for you or go the ways of the world, just like leave my name out of it. And I know that that's hard for people to hear.

Ali Gentry

It's what I like to call Holy Spirit truth bombs. OK?

Ali Gentry

They hurt, but their love, you know?

Ali Gentry

And I realize I was trying to do the dance of feet in both worlds of like.

Patrick McCalla

And it wasn't working for.

Ali Gentry

You know, it's exhausting and it'll break you. And it's it's like, OK, it's it's like it's time to choose what are what, what is, what is truth to me and what or who is truth, honestly? And time to make that decision.

Ali Gentry

I think a lot of us have been in this like we're so inundated with the world all the time. And yet we're trying to have one foot into what our purpose is. But the world's like putting fear on us, and it's hard for us to move and we are feeling the weight.

Patrick McCalla

Which only adds to the depression and anxiety, right?

Ali Gentry

Exactly.

Patrick McCalla

Did you did you? You got to. four advocates say that. What did you get to one?

Ali Gentry

I did get to one.

Ali Gentry

What for? I slowed down. I usually do a little bit more dramatic. I'm a little, as you can tell, extra sometimes. But I was dramatic always. And so thanks largely.

Ali Gentry

For adding a little scoop of extra drama. Yes, when he made me, but I got down to one, and that's when I felt like I could finally breathe and I felt this overwhelming piece.

Patrick McCalla

So you were asking God, I'm going to get to one and I want you to take me.

Ali Gentry

Take me so I don't have to do it like you.

Patrick McCalla

Wanted to die. Yeah. I mean, you get a one and interested.

Ali Gentry

In everything, but at one.

Patrick McCalla

You instead you feel the peace started at four.

Ali Gentry

And then I started to come down at four. When I got to one, I was like, Oh. Hmm. I just meant Jesus.

Ali Gentry

Hmm. Wow.

Ali Gentry

He's he's the piece of steps into any situation. Yeah, and brings it when it doesn't make sense.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah.

Ali Gentry

And that's why I love it. When Jesus is risen from the dead and he walks into the upper room.

Ali Gentry

Walks through a wall, which is pretty epic, that's pretty cool.

Patrick McCalla

I would get your attention as speakers were always trying to get the crowd's attention. We could only want to watch.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, I've only come on, Gloria, you pray that your doors to pray for the supernatural.

Ali Gentry

But Jesus walks in in the first word he says, is shalom.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, peace. Mm hmm.

Ali Gentry

And in our world of chaos and just the depression and anxiety, when we invite Jesus into it, he's he is peace. Yeah, yeah. When it doesn't make sense and it seems like a cop out, right? It seems like, Oh, Jesus, yes, OK, that's the right thing to say.

Ali Gentry

But I'm like, No, I've experienced this for four. And I want to say too is I believe that there's a difference between depression and anxiety.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah, what's going to come back to that? I wanted you to explain the difference between us.

Ali Gentry

So depression I this is me, OK? I have not. This is how.

Ali Gentry

I distinctly distinguish the two because I actually feel like depression is like very low energy you can have. Like, it's hard for you to move. You become lethargic and just want to.

Patrick McCalla

Sleep.

Ali Gentry

Sleep and you don't have energy. Anxiety is like high. I feel like when I have anxiety, it's like high octane. It's like, Oh my goodness, what are we going to do? It's more frantic.

Patrick McCalla

You can't breathe. You can't. Yeah, yeah.

Ali Gentry

And it's like, That's so.

Patrick McCalla

It's a whole bunch of people listening right now that are going. I felt them both.

Ali Gentry

Which is so unique, I feel, because we're going through depression, anxiety, depression, anxiety. Oh, I can't be depressed. I have to get stuff done. And now I'm anxious because I didn't get all the stuff done and our our schedules are so full, like, how do we get everything done that we're supposed to get done?

Ali Gentry

And depression to me is when you feel like you see no hope in the future. It's it's as if you can't see beyond your moment. And I always kind of realize when I'm because I still can struggle with this along the way.

Ali Gentry

And I and I want to tell people, Yes, the Lord saved me, and that's what I fully gave my life over to Jesus that day when I was 23. But it has a your.

Patrick McCalla

Depression, anxiety and just disappear just.

Ali Gentry

Doesn't know. And in for a while I.

Ali Gentry

Was like, Oh, freedom. And then there's.

Ali Gentry

Another thing I have to work through because life changes, seasons change and God is growing our faith in a new and deeper way. And so I just want to tell someone, if you've ever heard the fact that if you deal with this, then you are a believer or you don't have faith.

Ali Gentry

That's not.

Ali Gentry

Truth.

Ali Gentry

Because Jesus meets us in those moments and and but sometimes we need to build.

Ali Gentry

Our faith more in those moments, I'll say that. So yes, and have people.

Ali Gentry

Around you who can speak faith into your life and speak truth when you can't but depression. I just feel like it's where you can't see beyond. And it's almost like this fog is around your head. And like, when you try to look beyond it, you have no hope.

Ali Gentry

You don't see a way that's different than what your experience.

Patrick McCalla

You know, I'm picturing a scene right now is what you're talking about because, you know, we talk about valleys and mountain tops, and I'm from Montana. And in the fall, the fog will sit down in the valley. And what you're saying is when you get in those valley moments that depression time, it's like you lift your eyes

Patrick McCalla

up, but you can't see anything. It's just fog, right?

Ali Gentry

Right. Yeah, yeah.

Ali Gentry

So I just want to say to Montana's.

Ali Gentry

one of my favorite places in the world, so I love that he was born.

Patrick McCalla

There was not a bad place.

Ali Gentry

Not a bad place, not a bad place. And so, yeah, I.

Ali Gentry

Do feel like it's that fog that's around us. But I feel like when you get into anxiety, yeah, anxiety is seeing a future. You can see the future, but you don't see God in it, and it's almost like it's a super control.

Ali Gentry

And how is God going to make this work out? And my dad always jokes, he says, Well, apparently that worrying works because 90% of the things that I worry about never.

Ali Gentry

Happen to my father. You can't see that from the stage. Yeah. Yeah. No, no. But it's so funny when he says it, because we all do that. We worry about things that truly never are going to happen. And it's not because we're worrying about them.

Ali Gentry

It's because they're just we're.

Ali Gentry

Worrying about this future and not playing God in the midst of like putting God in the middle of like, how are my plans going to work out?

Patrick McCalla

But but how do you explain? So let me just jump in and ActionScript because I've struggled with anxiety for the last eight years and it just hit me. I was I was on a stage and all of a sudden I'm like, What is going on?

Patrick McCalla

And I had to. I literally had to walk off the stage, very embarrassing in the middle of a talk and launched me and like years of just battling with this. And so I know people. And in some ways, I'm thankful for that because when I started publicly sharing that, I can't believe how many people came up and

Patrick McCalla

said, and I struggle with this too. I struggle with this, too. The problem for us that have anxiety or struggle with it is, I know intellectually this is stupid. This doesn't make sense. This is a dumb thing to be.

Patrick McCalla

Well, but but in that moment, you can't like logic doesn't help you.

Ali Gentry

Ali Gentry

Anything.

Ali Gentry

But in everything through prayer and petition. Present your request to God and the God of you. Fill you with all joy and peace. And this is this is where it's interesting because the word anxious in that scripture actually means shortness of breath.

Ali Gentry

And he says, which.

Patrick McCalla

Is exactly what, like anybody, the struggles, the anxiety right now is going that seriously what it means because that's exactly what happens.

Ali Gentry

Shortness of breath? Yeah. And that's why I tell myself, Breathe girl, I just breathe because actually.

Ali Gentry

Physiologically taking deep breaths, I'm sure you know this as.

Patrick McCalla

Well. I've tried.

Ali Gentry

All the health stuff like deep breathing.

Ali Gentry

Is actually so good for our mental health and for our body's health in general. God literally made us that way. To wear that oxygen helps us think, think straight and to like it is a part of our health is actually deep breathing.

Ali Gentry

And yet we live in an anxiety ridden world of shortness of breath. And so we can't think straight. We can't realize and. And so even in those moments, God saying no, like the peace of God again, back to the peace will transcend all understanding.

Ali Gentry

It doesn't even make. It doesn't even make sense.

Ali Gentry

So you're like, I'm in my head, I'm in my head. And it's actually no. The peace of God transcends all understanding, but before that, it says, Rejoice, always, the lord is near. I always think like, so you're on the stage and that's happening to you and you're getting this anxious moment.

Ali Gentry

You're like, what? Whatever it might have caused might have caused it. Whether it's like, Why am I here what I was, I supposed to say.

Ali Gentry

You know, some.

Ali Gentry

People might get anxiety because their schedules are overwhelmed or whatever it might look like. And in those moments, it's like, No God placed me here in this moment, God's not shocked. And this is where again, I've tried the ways of the world and try to do it without God.

Ali Gentry

So I keep praying and got into this and also I speak and preach. And so it's going to.

Ali Gentry

Come out of me. You can't help, but you can't help.

Ali Gentry

But it's it's in those moments, OK, do I trust God that I did my best? I'm doing my best and he can actually meet me in these moments. I can trust that I was here in this moment for a reason.

Ali Gentry

I can trust that he'll give me the words to say right now, I can trust that he'll get everything done, that I'm supposed to be done on my schedule today. And if I don't get everything done, actually, he's big enough to cover that too.

Ali Gentry

And we don't live with margin really in our lives.

Patrick McCalla

So let me yeah, because I want to I want to pause there for a moment. Just talk about that. Because when you were talking about the shortness of breath, that that word literally means, don't be anxious for anything.

Patrick McCalla

Don't don't be short of breath with anything. But that's that's going back to where we kind of started. Are we live in a society where you can almost picture it? We're running from one thing to another where jump in our front room and and it's almost like you almost see living that way is almost a shortness of

Patrick McCalla

breath, right? You don't have time to stop. And but but the Bible is full of gifts that God has given us as humans to say, I want you to pause and breathe deeply, right? So so share some of.

Ali Gentry

Those be still.

Ali Gentry

And know that I am God. That's in some 40 stop.

Patrick McCalla

Just stop, right? Let go.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, I mean, from the beginning of creation, he said. Sabbath into motion like he. He didn't have to rest. God doesn't have to rest. He did it as an example for us to remember.

Ali Gentry

And he put it within the laws of the Israelites. They had to.

Ali Gentry

Take a seventh day, seventh year and then the 50th year of Jubilee. They weren't allowed to do anything.

Patrick McCalla

And it wasn't supposed to be this overbearing law or rule. It was like God was saying, This is my gift to you. This is this is how you're going to be healthy.

Ali Gentry

Yes.

Ali Gentry

And so we.

Patrick McCalla

Ignore that.

Ali Gentry

Exactly because we have to go to the next saints and the next thing. And and again, that's more Western society life. So there are places in the world that don't operate to the next Saints and the next.

Ali Gentry

Thing and but that's where we are.

Ali Gentry

And so how do we say, no, I am not going to live in the tyranny of the urgent. I'm not going to live to where I have to go to the next thing all the time, and I actually will take a Sabbath day.

Ali Gentry

I mean, I took it. I took one. Last Monday, I went to Sedona, which if you've never been as.

Ali Gentry

Beautiful, oh yeah, God's country.

Ali Gentry

And I went there, even though I had so much to do and I said, No Mondays are my Sabbath Day. I'm going to go and I'm not going to get back to emails. I got texts and I'm like, No, I can't.

Patrick McCalla

Isn't that sometimes the most important time? Because probably realistically, you could say, I don't have time to take this. Like, literally, I don't. I can't. Yeah, which is maybe sometimes the most important time not to force yourself to do it, which is what.

Ali Gentry

You did, right? Yes. And so putting in boundaries.

Ali Gentry

Actually, you know what? We were going to get on a call.

Ali Gentry

And I said, I'm sorry, I can't until Tuesday.

Ali Gentry

I don't know if you remember that right? You removed it.

Ali Gentry

And so I didn't explain it. I just said, I can't.

Ali Gentry

Because some people would be like, So I was there for your sorry god first.

Patrick McCalla

That's true.

Ali Gentry

That's true. That's true. But that's what I was doing.

Ali Gentry

And so I've learned that I don't even have to explain it to everyone. We are in a society that has to overexplain everything that we're doing because we share everything you know. And actually, I think we can just do it.

Ali Gentry

And then God's going to take care of you didn't.

Patrick McCalla

You didn't.

Ali Gentry

Send me. We did. We had. Our phone call is great, easy, you.

Ali Gentry

Know, and God took care of both of our timings. You were traveling and stuff. And you know, and it's trusting that if I give this time to God, if I give, I give Thursday nights to God. Almost always, I'm like, Nope, nobody, the no fly zone.

Ali Gentry

For me, Thursday nights middle of the week, I just found rhythm. So that I can remember to breathe and that I remember that not everything depends on me.

Patrick McCalla

So what advice would you give someone right now who is listening in there going, Man, I need to do that, I need to do that. But like, what? What advice would you give them to say to find a rhythm, a Sabbath?

Patrick McCalla

That's a that's a churchy word. It's a it's a Bible word. It just means taking a rest, right?

Ali Gentry

Rest start with ten minutes a day. In the middle of your day, find it lunch, if you have lunch break, maybe put your phone down and just be in eat. Just be just rest for that half an hour you get or hour or 15 minutes.

Patrick McCalla

We're human beings, not human doings.

Ali Gentry

Exactly.

Patrick McCalla

Or sometimes we just need to.

Ali Gentry

Be just Adobe.

Ali Gentry

And then or if you can go to a coffee shop that fills you up or go on a walk, I started doing this one time when I had a very bad depression. I used to wake up in the morning, be active because depression keeps you not wanting to, or you're like, How do I do this?

Ali Gentry

How am I going to work this? And I started waking up in the morning to get my coffee, which I'd sit there and drink my coffee. But I just went on two laps around my community walking and then I'm just like, just being filled up.

Ali Gentry

No headphones like just quiet, like we live in such a loud world.

Ali Gentry

And to.

Ali Gentry

Stop. I mean, I know some people be.

Ali Gentry

Like, Well, you're.

Ali Gentry

Walking, you should be still.

Ali Gentry

Be still in. No. And it's like, No, actually, they don't. But it's not about legalism.

Ali Gentry

It's about what works for your lifestyle.

Ali Gentry

What were through your season?

Ali Gentry

Some seasons I could wake up and spend two hours like.

Ali Gentry

You know, on La La Land.

Ali Gentry

And studying and then other seasons right now. Like that doesn't. It's not realistic to I need more sleep right now. Mm-Hmm. And so I work that figure it out, and I'm single. That allows me. one of the gifts of singleness is it allows me to kind of.

Ali Gentry

Do it maybe longer.

Ali Gentry

Than some people can or more often, but in other ways. I think a lot of people think that because people are single, they should fill their schedules with more things because you don't have the natural boundary of family.

Ali Gentry

Oh, you're your home with your family tonight instead of, like, why didn't you text me back? I know that.

Ali Gentry

You write yourself at home, you know? And so it's.

Ali Gentry

Just realizing your season. Don't put pressure and it's not legalism, it's actually freedom. So look at it as a place of if I do this, I.

Ali Gentry

Will have.

Ali Gentry

Freedom from it and remember that that that it doesn't all depend on you. And it's a very tactic of the enemy, I believe, to distract us, to keep us from being still to hear the voice of God in our lives if we're too distracted by our schedules.

Ali Gentry

So some people might need to say, Sorry, kids, you're not doing 20 sports this year. Yes, sorry, that's not going to work in our schedule as a family because we're going to prioritize rest so that we aren't a people of anxiety.

Patrick McCalla

And here's what I hear you saying. So I know, you know, when they publish books, they always leave a margin, right? Because our eyes actually can't. If they filled that page with words from one edge to the other and there was no margin.

Patrick McCalla

We just we can't process that very well. So we they've proven we just read better if there's margin. And what you're saying is that we live in a society that ends up filling that page if you're not careful.

Patrick McCalla

But that's we get the freedom. I like how you use that word legalism as we have the freedom to make sure that there's margin in our life. Mm-Hmm.

Ali Gentry

Yeah. Mm-Hmm.

Ali Gentry

And think about how different we would look from the world if we actually implemented that. Like, Oh, they're not worried. They don't have to do all of the things like the world, actually, I think is wanting a different way to do it.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, but we actually have a way to do it.

Patrick McCalla

So and there's there's personalities are different, right?

Ali Gentry

Like my mind about that?

Patrick McCalla

Well, my just going say, I can tell it like, you're a driver type. I mean, all the stuff you're doing, you're you're it's probably takes more work and effort for you to make sure that you do that. And there's other people that are wired to to go.

Patrick McCalla

And I don't I don't need to try to win every game. I mean, I'm a I don't know if you do the anagram thing, I'm a three any agreement before. OK, yeah. Not winning. We're sinning.

Ali Gentry

Force. Yeah. So I literally have a cup over that says all the feels in the Grand Forks over there on the counter. Yeah.

Patrick McCalla

So I think our personality types, we probably have to work harder at that age would be another one. If anybody knows any grams, there's some. Some my wife's a nine. My wife is actually really good at this. She's always been good at this.

Patrick McCalla

She's just she's just naturally saying, like, I'm not. I'm not going to say yes to another thing. I mean, I'm overwhelmed.

Ali Gentry

Yes.

Patrick McCalla

But but all of us need it.

Ali Gentry

Well, and that's why one of the things that I love to talk to about people is how you are wired. And even with depression anxiety to that, you know, some of us have chemical physiologically.

Ali Gentry

We are more.

Ali Gentry

Like apt or.

Ali Gentry

Like prone to.

Ali Gentry

Fall into those categories. I am, and so I have to know that. So how do I defeat? How do I not defeat it? But yeah, learn how to deal.

Ali Gentry

With it.

Ali Gentry

And do better with it. Personality types as a four on the.

Ali Gentry

Engram or people who can go into this whole IMO world? Yeah, I live in La La Land sometimes and like you just become.

Ali Gentry

Wrapped up in your fields. And now that I have that as a tool.

Ali Gentry

Like.

Ali Gentry

You know, people talk about personality tests in any gram and all these things, I.

Ali Gentry

Love them. I coach people through them.

Ali Gentry

They're a tool in the toolbox.

Ali Gentry

To help your life, to help not only love.

Ali Gentry

Who God made you, but to so that you can love others better. It's all for other people. And when we have that, OK, then you can start to see red flags whenever you're starting to feel a certain way.

Ali Gentry

Oh, my goodness, or put a stop on it, be like I have to dress like, No, I'm forcing myself.

Ali Gentry

To not work today. As a three or.

Ali Gentry

You know, those types of things and.

Ali Gentry

When you don't work.

Ali Gentry

I just think that they're helpful to know. Yeah, because some of us are wired one way or the other. And I believe that God has so much for each one of us, and he's created us so uniquely and I and and my my heart breaks for especially the next generation.

Ali Gentry

But for our like, we're losing sight of purpose because we're looking for it everywhere around us and God's like, actually, I created.

Ali Gentry

You on purpose for a purpose.

Ali Gentry

For such a time as this. Like you said, you're 50. I just turned 33 this last year and I am like.

Ali Gentry

Oh my goodness, I'm 33. This is not what my life looked in my head.

Patrick McCalla

You didn't think, well.

Ali Gentry

The twelve year old girl. 33, this is not what 33 is going to look like.

Ali Gentry

But I realize that God placed me. And honestly, once you get older, you're like.

Ali Gentry

Oh my goodness, I'm really actually getting older. Yeah, this is happening. This is a thing that happens. Yeah, and it's like, No, actually God.

Ali Gentry

Ali Gentry

He made me this way. He made me with the personality type. I have made you that way with the eye color I have with the family. I had the skin color. All these are beautiful gifts that he created us with so that he can.

Ali Gentry

Yes, that we can reflect.

Ali Gentry

Yeah.

Ali Gentry

His image to the world in such a unique and specific way. And we are looking to often to everyone else to how we wish we looked the personality, we wish we had, the job we use. We we want to one day or the platform with everyone on it or in God's like, No, I'm I'm calling you did

Ali Gentry

this only you can do that. Yeah. And when we get so wrapped up in the depression and we get wrapped up into that stuff, that's what leads to depression and anxiety. A lot of times because we're trying to keep up or we're trying to be in God's like, actually, I have something that's so uniquely you that if

Ali Gentry

you lean into that purpose, you lean into your personality, you lean into the story that he's giving you. Actually, he can do something pretty magnificent that will put purpose and hope and a future. So what are you going to do with it?

Ali Gentry

Not to the point where we need to put anxiety and pressure, because sometimes that's where I fall into. It's like, God, you have me do this even.

Ali Gentry

At the beginning. You're like, You do a lot of stuff. Sometimes I'm like, What am I doing? Why am I doing this?

Patrick McCalla

Your identity becomes your things.

Ali Gentry

And that's the this is the key piece is that the world is trying to label all of us trying to put our identity, tell us what our identity is, put us in the boxes, put us in the little corners.

Ali Gentry

You stay with your people that only agree with this and then it creates this like just struggle, the fear and everything. It's a fight over identity and whether people know it or not. We are in a spiritual war and the enemy does not want you to to know who you are in Christ, that you are chosen, that

Ali Gentry

you are adopted, that you are redeemed. You're forgiven.

Ali Gentry

You have good.

Ali Gentry

Things planned in advance for you.

Ali Gentry

To do.

Ali Gentry

As it says in Ephesians 2:10. And so when.

Patrick McCalla

We're royalty.

Ali Gentry

We are royalty.

Patrick McCalla

You and I it princess. I'm a prince, son and daughter of the king.

Ali Gentry

Exactly.

Ali Gentry

You know, and just knit together so specifically in our mother's womb, as it says in Psalm 139, it's like everything is purposeful. And if we put our identity in anything else, we will lose track will fall into that depression will will the anxiety of the things that we do, the podcast, all the things that you.

Ali Gentry

All the things you do like.

Ali Gentry

It's so easy for us or to be identify as like, I'm a mom and that's just it. Like I'm the mom or I'm the dad or, you know?

Patrick McCalla

And then like, my wife and I went through this recently, so my wife was a stay at home mom loved it. That's what she wanted to do right. And the kids leave home and for a little while, then all of a sudden she was just wrestling with Who am I now?

Patrick McCalla

Like, Who am I? And she had to try to find that. So what would you say to someone that that is struggling with with identity is going? I hear what you're saying and I get it intellectually. I just can't get it that, you know, from my head to my heart, I can't get it down there.

Patrick McCalla

What would you say to them?

Ali Gentry

For me, because I'm I'm such a feeler to. I have to go to truth first. It might be in your head, but reading it, getting people to tell you truth, being around people to speak good things about you, writing things down.

Ali Gentry

I mean, I did that this morning. I was just as like, I am, you know, called by God I am and not like in a.

Ali Gentry

You know.

Ali Gentry

I had to actually sit there and tell myself and repeat it back.

Ali Gentry

I know this sounds like, you know, kind of woo for some people.

Ali Gentry

But I'm like, I had to repeat it back to start to believe it because it takes a little while for your head and your heart to connect on what is truth and what we believe. And it's what are you putting into your life, the music you're listening to, the things you're learning, the podcast you're listening to, because

Ali Gentry

that's going to speak stuff over you, and we have to be so careful with that. But it's learning the stuff that we've shared today. What are those identity pieces? How has God made me take a moment and write down your story and then see how God or see how you can use that God can use it through

Ali Gentry

you and a redemptive way and be like, this isn't just a fault in my life. This actually might be the very thing that God has allowed in my life.

Ali Gentry

The the bad thing.

Ali Gentry

Maybe to actually help people around me and repurpose your life, repurpose you and give it over to him. Because I mean, I'm such a heart for people to know that there is a vibrant life available to them. That's why my show is called the vibrant life.

Ali Gentry

That's why, because Jesus has it says that he has come. That you may have life.

Ali Gentry

Yeah. Live it abundant, yes.

Ali Gentry

Abundant.

Patrick McCalla

Not just a life, but an abundant lake.

Ali Gentry

Yes, and that's the truth. And that's why a lot of times it takes our heart a while to catch up. But when we start repeating it, maybe write it on a note card. Put those things in front of you, write down your story one time, tell someone a part of your story and I actually want to.

Ali Gentry

I would say to you, if you're dealing with depression or anxiety, find someone to tell Mm.

Ali Gentry

Don't please find someone to help.

Ali Gentry

Yes, please. I want someone to tell, because that's just a practical, hopeful handle for someone to go and do that. Because what what happens is, is it breeds it and grows in the dark. So if you're isolated from people, the depression gets bigger, the anxiety gets bigger because you didn't speak it, you haven't shared it.

Ali Gentry

It's in your head, it's in your mind, it's in your feelings. And once you bring something.

Ali Gentry

To light.

Ali Gentry

Then the truth can be shed over it and then then you can find healing. You can find hope, in truth. But when we hide it away, which is what happened in the garden, they hid the moment. They felt shame about something and then God calls them out.

Ali Gentry

He's like, Where are you?

Patrick McCalla

It's so interesting that the verbiage you just used because in creation, we see almost everything needs light to grow. But you're saying depression and anxiety, it grows in darkness and dark. It's one of the few things that in isolation, darkness it, it will actually breed and grow.

Patrick McCalla

And that's what we have to fight against that. So I hear you saying that one of the most important things, if you were talking to someone who's going to get it up here intellectually, I just can't get it to my heart is it's not you can't listen to a podcast once or record a verse once or quote

Patrick McCalla

a pithy statement. It's something that you have to be repeating to yourself. Right? That's what I hear you saying. Somehow, write it down, speak it to yourself. Have other people speak it to you.

Ali Gentry

But it's right because it does. It takes a long time for some people because it doesn't match what their feels like. And so I just encourage people always write a verse on a card or write truths about like what you know of who God is.

Ali Gentry

I mean, focus on who God is because he's so good and majestic and awesome and powerful, and he's our provider and our peace and our hope. I don't know. Like, Oh yeah.

Ali Gentry

OK, yeah, our problems start to like, shrink real fast, and I.

Ali Gentry

Start writing down attributes of who God is. If you're a believer and just see the good and be thankful and you know, a place of gratitude. I mean, yesterday I was dealing with some pieces of anxiety in my mind, and I was getting so overwhelmed by all this stuff I had to do, and I just started crying

Ali Gentry

. And then I was.

Ali Gentry

At church and I told a few people, and I like people that I love and trust, and they prayed over me and then I walked out of there and I was like, Oh.

Ali Gentry

OK, it's not as big as I thought it was.

Ali Gentry

Now that I spoke it out, and when you say so, I would say, write it down, repeat it, find someone to talk to about it that you trust. Or or counseling. I an advocate for that as well. I myself have one.

Ali Gentry

I find a way to be able to talk through it and get truth spoken back over you and a couple of other practical things. Get active.

Ali Gentry

Go on a walk.

Ali Gentry

You know, even if your brain's like going a zillion miles an hour, go on a walk. If your brain's not going at all and you're feeling depressed, going to.

Ali Gentry

Walk like go get out walking.

Patrick McCalla

Solves a lot of things.

Ali Gentry

It does. It's all over scripture to you, but like, go outside and breathe active breath just.

Ali Gentry

Fresh air that God has for us. And. And again, like, I'm not going to go into this whole story about the story of Elijah, but it's just incredible.

Ali Gentry

That he.

Ali Gentry

Was like one of God's biggest prophets. And after what? Some of the biggest miracles he was laying out there.

Ali Gentry

Depression, depression wanted.

Ali Gentry

God telling God to take his life. And he isolated himself. If you read it, he like tells his.

Ali Gentry

Kids.

Ali Gentry

His purpose is assistant. If you will stay back.

Ali Gentry

I'm going by myself in the desert today. And he gets on to the desert and God's like, Go to sleep. Yeah, go to sleep, dude. Like, I mean, he cares. And he got.

Patrick McCalla

Some food too, right? Yes, a nap and a meal and a walk will do a lot.

Ali Gentry

I'm telling.

Ali Gentry

You sleep. Yes. Yes, that's what we say. Take a nap.

Ali Gentry

Eat a snack. OK, if you're feeling depressed or you're feeling on the verge of making a decision that is life altering. Go to sleep. I know it sounds trivial, but it's like sleep. What are you putting into your body?

Ali Gentry

It matters. The angel wakes Elijah up and gives him bread and water. Hmm. Are you drinking enough water?

Ali Gentry

Our bodies are literally.

Ali Gentry

Responding to some of the ways we're not actually taking care of it in the physical. So those are some other practical ways. And and then he gets up and he walks at the end of that story. It's he sleeps, he eats, he's drink some water and he goes back to sleep, does it again, and then he goes

Ali Gentry

on a walk back to work. His calling was and he gained strength. So all of those things are very practical ways to help us, not small things.

Patrick McCalla

It sounds so trivial.

Ali Gentry

That's why I feel like that's why sure, it's nice to.

Patrick McCalla

Snack in a walk.

Ali Gentry

I yeah, yesterday after I was like, I need like a 15 minute nap, like and.

Ali Gentry

I felt better waking up. And it's.

Ali Gentry

Just it just.

Ali Gentry

It matters. We don't prioritize it. But God created our bodies in a certain way that it actually does matter on our. Health and we have to prioritize it.

Patrick McCalla

As holistic beings.

Ali Gentry

Right, holistic? Absolutely. And so I know that we've talked about and covered quite a few things, but those I hope are just practical ways as first steps. And don't be like, Oh, I have to. What am I eating healthy?

Ali Gentry

I had to drink all this water today, and I need going to pick one thing to focus on. And then once you get that going to pick the next thing? Don't be overwhelmed. More so in a space that already feels overwhelming.

Ali Gentry

Just look for those little moments, and I really believe they'll compound and help you out of those moments.

Patrick McCalla

And that's so good. Ali, we clearly need to have you on here again because we had I had shared a couple of things. I want to go here, I want to talk about, but we didn't get to some of that, like our mutual hero, Esther.

Ali Gentry

I know. Oh, I love her so much.

Patrick McCalla

And me too in her and Mordechai. And if people don't know what we're talking about, go to the Bible, find the Book of Esther. Take you like 20 minutes to.

Ali Gentry

Read.

Patrick McCalla

ten or eleven chapters. Unbelievable story. But sometimes we have to have you on just to talking about it for such a time as this. And and it's not just about Esther. That story connects with all of us. Like we've all been put in this place in history in this particular spot in the world for such a time

Patrick McCalla

. You got to come back and talk about that sometime, OK? We got it. We have to do that. And there was another question, but we're out of time. So let me do this, though. I'm going to ask you what I ask all the guests.

Patrick McCalla

It's ironic because there's no gray areas, two truths and a lie. So they've heard you for a little over 30 minutes now. I've met you twice now. I think I'll see if I can guess it. They're going to try to guess.

Ali Gentry

OK, well, I'll say this.

Ali Gentry

I'm an adventurer, OK?

Ali Gentry

And I love to travel.

Ali Gentry

And that has just been in my DNA. And so my first one is when I was in Thailand. I traveled around for a couple of weeks and ended in the city of Bangkok. I always like.

Ali Gentry

To try local.

Ali Gentry

Foods and try to be, you know.

Patrick McCalla

That gets you in trouble.

Ali Gentry

It does sometimes, you know. And I was sitting there and they walked around with a platter and it was scorpions. They got pudding around putting in your face, and I was like, I don't know where I am from Arizona.

Ali Gentry

So I feel like eating a scorpion is like.

Ali Gentry

Poetic in a weird way. I'm going to your grandma. Yeah, yeah.

Ali Gentry

Number two. OK, so I went to school in London for college for a little bit, and on one of the weekend trips, which is epic, I highly recommend going to school somewhere else. For a little while. I went to a week in terms of went to Paris and then we decided, OK, we're going to go to the

Ali Gentry

Eiffel Tower after we had lunch and our baguettes out on the lawn being all cool and thinking we are.

Ali Gentry

Yeah, and we.

Ali Gentry

Get on to the Eiffel Tower on the elevator and we got stuck in an elevator.

Patrick McCalla

And the Eiffel Tower.

Ali Gentry

And the Eiffel Tower, which felt like.

Ali Gentry

Ours. Yeah, there's probably like less.

Ali Gentry

Than 15 minutes.

Ali Gentry

Like, it's.

Patrick McCalla

OK. So you so you eat a scorpion. Everything Tylenol. Yeah, get stuck in the Eiffel Tower. An elevator?

Ali Gentry

Yeah. And there were three. I taught English in South Korea for a little bit and.

Ali Gentry

We were out on the beach and we just hear these sirens going off and we had locals coming in yelling at us, telling us you off the beach. We had to leave. And so we pack up our hotel, get back to the school where we were teaching at one of the little like university spaces for like fifth

Ali Gentry

and sixth graders. We get back, it starts pouring rain. We're with our students. We're having to move them from building to building. And I live in Arizona, right?

Patrick McCalla

Her like a flash flood.

Ali Gentry

Or something like that in my life.

Ali Gentry

And it was probably one of the most, scariest moments because I didn't understand the typhoon.

Ali Gentry

Word, really.

Ali Gentry

And you're in charge of all these kids. And so you're like trying to take care of them. But also, I feel like our kids, we had so much fun and it bonded us in such a beautiful way that it was one.

Ali Gentry

Of the again, you had to be there at that time to get a typhoon on a beach, but.

Ali Gentry

That was one of my memories of teaching over there. So those are right there.

Patrick McCalla

OK to truth and a lie. So I'm going to go either you're a really, really good liar, which I almost hope this isn't true now. So I'm going to say number three is true because you were telling that like you would have experienced.

Patrick McCalla

Yeah. So that's true, OK? Either way, if you told me that was a lie as me, like, Wow, you're a good liar. So that was so I'm going to say that I must say the lie is stuck in the Eiffel Tower.

Ali Gentry

100% a lie. OK, so we did. I did it a scorpion, and I did go to Paris and we did go the Eiffel Tower, but didn't get stuck. OK.

Ali Gentry

But yes, I did see the scorpion, and I'm pretty.

Ali Gentry

Sure I still have health issues from that day. So don't do that. If you go to Thailand, just say, Wow, that looks great, thanks and then don't predict so. Yeah, yeah.

Patrick McCalla

Well, Ali, thank you so much for taking the time. I have no doubt I learned a lot. I have no doubt listeners learned a lot as well, so really appreciate you appreciate what you're doing. Thanks for sharing with us.

Ali Gentry

Thank you for having me.

Host

Thank you. Thanks for listening to the No Gray Areas podcast to dove deeper into the story. Be sure to subscribe. Follow us on social media and check out No Gray Area dot com.