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The Moral Imperative to Help Ukraine (Part 2): Integral Perspectives on the War, Its Global Implications, and the Role of Warrior Consciousness
Episode 2328th April 2022 • Deep Transformation • Deep Transformation Podcast
00:00:00 00:41:06

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Ep. 23 (Part 2 of 2) | Integral leaders Kateryna Yasko, Vytautas Bučiūnas, and Bence Gánti illuminate many of the most poignant and pressing questions of our time, brought to the fore by the ongoing war in Ukraine: Can postmodern people embrace a warrior consciousness when necessary? Are Russians, brainwashed by propaganda, who explicitly support the war worthy of compassion? Can people remain sane and humane while at the same time taking up arms? How can we handle the effects of the psychological trauma that will cascade over generations? And how do we prevent the mass delusion and psychosis that is so easily propagated via modern media technology?

What are the global consequences of the Russian war on Ukraine? The trillions of dollars now being diverted to defense and military weaponry in the West are trillions of dollars that will not be spent on social programs, global health, education, climate change, and food—many people in Africa will starve as a result of this war on the breadbasket, wheat-producing Ukraine. What is wrong with democracy if its leaders can’t step up to the plate, be authentic, strong, and stand up for what is right, while autocrats do whatever they please? A powerful, heart wrenching conversation asking the right questions, pointing towards the answers. Recorded April 15, 2022.

For more wrestling with the questions, and to share wisdom, ideas, support, and inspiration, there is IEC 2022 (Integral European Conference) this May online and in Budapest. And to donate directly to help the Ukrainian people via Kateryna and Vytautas using iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People, see below.

The reality is: “If Russia stops fighting, there will be no war. If Ukraine stops fighting, there will be no Ukraine.”

(For Apple Podcast users, click here to view the complete show notes on the episode page.)

Topics & Time Stamps – Part 2

  • The difference between Ukrainians and Russians is Ukrainians long to be and remain human and humane; but Russians have been through a long dehumanization process (01:00)
  • How can we stick to the Geneva Conventions and not become what we’re fighting against? (01:59)
  • Around 60% of Russians on the street honestly believe they are liberating Ukraine (04:59) 
  • The power of today’s information and communication technology, coupled with our awful vulnerability to delusional thinking, is a recipe for inducing culture-wide psychosis (07:05)
  • The analogy with Nazi Germany and Putin’s Russia is right on (10:30)
  • Are Russians who are brainwashed and explicitly supporting warfare worthy of our compassion? (11:30)
  • What are the global ramifications, the psychological and cultural implications, of this great tragedy that will affect global health, social welfare, even the survival of the human species? (16:20) 
  • The systems we have been trusting to maintain global order were not good enough to save us from this challenge (20:34)
  • How to come up with more Integral, inclusive solutions and systems of sensemaking? (21:22)
  • The leadership factor in the West over the last 20+ years has been reactive, compliant, generally avoiding facing reality – until Zelensky (Vytautas’ keynote at IEC will be about this) (21:52)
  • Working on solutions at the Integral European Conference (IEC) May 2022 online and in Budapest (25:05)
  • How this invasion has opened hearts, created an explosion of trust, people are really “showing up” (Kateryna’s keynote at IEC will be about this) (26:57)
  • Showing up – what will you do when it’s time to act? There is a way to contribute for everyone (28:09)
  • iAwake’s Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People (30:15)
  • IEC will be an opportunity to involve people from Latin America in the fight for democracy and freedom in Ukraine, and hear about their ongoing wars as well (32:35) 
  • IEC will sponsor a global discussion on war and peace everywhere; there are more than 100 wars going on at any given time on the planet (35:06)
  • Are only autocratic leaders allowed to be bold, decisive, real, and authentic? (37:31)
  • Zelensky is the role model for other democratic leaders (38:50)

Resources & References – Part 2

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How can I help? iAwake's Funnel to Help, Heal, and Support the Ukrainian People

Deep Transformation sponsor, iAwake Technologies, sends all funds raised on behalf of the Ukrainian people directly to Kateryna Yasko and Vytautas Bučiūnas, who are giving on-the-ground support to Ukrainian refugees in the bordering countries, and sending life-saving medicines and emergency first aid kits into Ukraine via trusted drivers. Sending money directly to the people who are doing the work is much more effective at this stage than sending money to an established NGO or other aid organization, as there is a lot of paperwork and bureaucratic red tape that greatly delays the money from reaching the people who need it the most.

→ Donate here

Please know that 100% of your donation (after PayPal fees) will go directly to Kateryna and Vytautas to be used at their discretion to address the greatest needs as this terrible situation unfolds hour to hour, day to day. This couple has our absolute trust and confidence that they will use the funds we send them in the best and most compassionate and effective way possible.



Kateryna Yasko (Ukraine) is an organizational psychologist, a trainer for the development of emotional intelligence, trust, cooperation, effective communication, and peaceful conflict resolution, and co-founder of the consulting company U-Integral. Her academic background is in the area of international relations and law (MSc), business (MBA), and psychology (MSc). She bases her programs on the principles of Ken Wilber’s Integral approach and Marshall Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication, and is certified in Spiral Dynamics Integral and in Susanne Cook-Greuter’s Maturity Assessment Profile. Kateryna is also head of the public association "International Institute for Integral Development" and a founder of the educational initiative EMPATIA.PRO, specializing in bringing  holistic approaches into educational leadership and learning cultures.

Vytautas Bučiūnas (Lithuania–Ukraine) is a co-founder and managing partner of U-Integral, an integral leadership development company. Vytautas also has vast experience as a top manager in the banking sector including working as the Head of Resident Office, Senior Banker, Associate Director at the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (Russia, Ukraine). Vytautas' professional profile includes building organizational units from scratch, carrying out large-scale transformations, and managing crises. Vytautas is a certified Integral Master Coach™ (Integral Coaching Canada), an ICF Professional Certified Coach (PCC)™, and the only business consultant in Ukraine certified in Leadership Maturity Framework – Maturity Assessment for Professionals (LMF-MAP) and Global Leadership Profile (GLP). Vytautas explores the development of human consciousness and complex social systemsfrom a holistic perspective. He considers the growth of a critical mass of mature leaders with systemic thinking and transformational capabilities to be the key to society's healthy development.

Bence Ganti, MA, is the main organizer, co-founder, and director of the Integral European Conferences (since 2014) and the co-founder of Integral Europe team (since 2012). He also created the Integral Academy in Budapest, a 3-year adult education program on integral psychology in 2006. Bence is an integrally oriented clinical psychologist, vipassana meditator, and international teacher of integral psychology. Being a dual citizen of the USA and Hungary, Bence bridges cultures delivering keynote addresses, making presentations, and leading experiential workshops worldwide, including his version of a cutting-edge we-space practice called Integral Flow Experience. In the US, he has taught integral psychology at Meridian University and San Francisco State University and at integral events at  Bay Area Integral, Integral Center in Boulder, and the Integral Theory Conferences. He also represented integral consciousness during the World Economic Forum week in Davos, Switzerland, in 2019.


Podcast produced by Vanessa Santos and Show Notes by Heidi Mitchell