Gas prices and gas taxes - why is Ohio continuing to keep a state tax on gas?

California and corpses as fertilizer - coming to Ohio?

Ohio board of education voting - to support Title IX

What does "conservatism" mean? Who is defining the term? We see it as conserving the fundamental fact of freedom.

An update on the JD Vance and Tim Ryan debate.

Did you know? Auto manufacturers began as electric car manufacturers. But the modifications and efficiencies of gas engines changed how cars were manufactured. So battery-powered autos are a 120-year-old idea.

Novak v. Parma - The Institute for Justice -

Ohio Turkey arrested in Miami Township

Ohio 2020 Census update

• Nearly 11.8 million in Ohio - according to the 2020 U.S. Census
• 2.7% work outside of the state

How we drive to work

• Most Ohioans drive alone - 81.2%
• Carpool 7.6%
• Walk 2.2%
• Public transportation 1.4%
• Commute time - 23.7 minutes (national, 26.9 minutes)

How we work

• We work 38.4 hours per week
• 25% work in education, healthcare or social assistance
• 15.1% manufacturing
• 11.3% in retail

How much do we make and value of our homes

• Median* HH income is $58,116 (nation is $64,994)
• Homeownership - 66.3% (nation 64.4)
• Value of homes in Ohio
• .6% are valued at 1million+
• 38% 100k-199K
• 26.8% under 100K
• 11.7% 200k-299K

Monthly rent

• the median* is $825
• Columbus - $989
• Delaware Cty - $1118

Marital status

• 47.5% of residents 15+ are married (down from 2010 at 50.3%)
• Of the married Ohioans - 15,700 are LGBTQ couples - which comprises 1% of married couples - this is 1/10 of 1% of the Ohio population - .001
• 32.6% have never been married
• 12% divorced
• 6.3% widowed
• 1.6% separated

Children in Ohio

• 45.5% live with married parents
• 28.4% live in single-mother families
• 18.8% live in single-father families

Who are we?

• 23.4% report having German ancestry
• 12.7% Irish
• 8.6% English
• 6.1% Italian
• 81.7% white
• 13.3% Black
• 2.7% Asian
• .3% Native American
• Women outnumber men - 51% to 49%
• Ohioans are slightly older than the national average with a median age of 39.5 compared to 38.2 nationally.

*Average can simply be defined as the sum of all the numbers divided by the total number of values. A mean is defined as the mathematical average of the set of two or more data values. Average is usually defined as mean or arithmetic mean. Mean is simply a method of describing the average of the sample.

Stephen Palmer is the Managing Partner for the law firm, Palmer Legal Defense. He has specialized almost exclusively in criminal defense for over 26 years. Steve is also a partner in Criminal Defense Consultants, a firm focused wholly on helping criminal defense attorneys design winning strategies for their clients.

Norm Murdock is an automobile racing driver and owner of a high-performance and restoration car parts company. He earned undergraduate degrees in literature and journalism and graduated with a Juris Doctor from the University of Cincinnati College of Law in 1985. He worked in the IT industry for two years before launching a career in government relations in Columbus, Ohio. Norm has assisted clients in the Transportation, Education, Healthcare, and Public Infrastructure sectors.

Brett Johnson is an award-winning podcast consultant and small business owner for nearly 10 years, leaving a long career in radio. He is passionate about helping small businesses tell their story through podcasts, and he believes podcasting is a great opportunity for different voices to speak and be heard.

Recorded at the 511 Studios, in the Brewery District in downtown Columbus, OH.

Copyright 2024 Common Sense Ohio

Brett: Coming to you that might be better.

Steve: Coming to get you, Murdoch. I'm coming to get you.

Norm: I just love everybody. That's all I want to say right now. I love everybody. Especially the Honda Odyssey that cut me off on the way into town. Because on 670 where you come in onto Third Street, it seems like everybody blocks those left two lanes so they can dive bomb in on the right side to continue underneath High Street under the viaduct there uh, they plug up the exit into the downtown corridor. And um, it's always a Honda Odyssey every time.

Steve: I'm going to go buy a Honda Odyssey.

Norm: Yeah, I'm going to buy a couple of law rockets and mount them to my uh, Ranger. Uh, one on the left fender, one on the right. And I'm going to have uh, some kind of trigger device inside the cabin and I'm just going to take them out, these people. Uh, and the other one is Toyota Siennas or whatever the, these are all minivans.

Steve: You just don't like the minivan. How about the dodge?

Norm: Um, they are caravan in space.

Norm: There you go. Right.

Steve: Trick it out.

Norm: So, uh, I just got back from um, down south, um, you know, and you know you're back in Ohio when the instant you cross the river from West Virginia or Kentucky and the price of gas goes from 349 to 399 instantly. And every time I just thank Governor DeWine for his first act as governor. So I just want people to remember this when they go vote. Our uh, republican, supposedly conservative governor, he's neither. The first thing he did was enact a huge gas tax increase on the citizens of Ohio and we've all forgotten about it now. Right?

Steve: Governor newsom.

Norm: Governor duh wine. So Ohio's fuel tax is thirty eight cents a gallon. You add that to the federal nineteen cents and then there's a few other excise taxes thrown in there and we're getting screwed in this state. Georgia has no state gas tax right now. They suspended it because gas is high. And the uh, governor there, Kemp, decided people need a break. But I guess in Ohio we don't. I guess everybody's doing really good here. There's no unemployment, uh, we're all fat, dumb and happy.

Brett: I'm surprised he's not pulled that off before elections.

Steve: Yes, well, we're flying over to Saudi.

Norm: Arabia like our goofy President and begged, uh.

Steve: Whatever his name is, just getting categorically embarrassed.

Norm: And please make more oil because I won't let us in the United States. I'm not going to permit new drilling in the United States. So please, not even Saudi Arabia drilling is already occurring. Exactly. Well, but they've also not uh, issued any very few permits. It's a war on petrochemicals in the United States, the EVs, we go on and on. But yes, why didn't uh, Governor DeWine fly to Saudi Arabia and beg them for more oil imports?

Steve: I think Ohio, I think he's more on the Gavin Newsom side of things. Where, so Gavin Newsom says, well, gas prices are too high, so we're going to tax the petroleum folks even more because they're charging too much.

Norm: Well, California's state gas tax is fifty nine cents a gallon.

Steve: Yeah. And then we have seasonal tax too. Right. That they have made. Apparently we haven't been pretty bad.

Norm: And they also passed. Of course. Newsom did a couple of weird things this year. Uh, this isn't exactly Ohio centric, but everything from California usually ends up here. Right. So, um, yeah, Newsom also signed regulations uh, approving the use of human corpses to be ground up and used as soylent green fertilizer for California crops. So that will be really appetizing the next time you have an artichoke and you're thinking, huh, well, uh, somebody's grandma supplied the protein here for the artichoke. That's great. Um, what a weird thing.

Steve: Is this true?

Norm: This is true. Yeah. They approved a human disposal. Um, way to get rid of, uh.

Brett: John Doe and Mary Jane.

Norm: Take their ashes their ashes, their ground up parts, whatever. Um, I don't know how they process it. Really don't want to know. But to be able to use human remains as farm fertilizer, we do that with chickens and cows in Ohio. Right? Yeah.

Steve: But it's an interesting question, though, isn't it? Because it's like, why not, on the one hand? On the other hand, I think it turns everybody's stomach to even think about it. Uh, there's nothing innately wrong with it.

Norm: Well, that's just innovation, right? I mean, that's brilliant engineering. So that's where we're going.

Steve: It's like The Walking Dead stuff. It's crazy.

Steve: I mean, that's ten years out.

Norm: I think it's he's smoking crack. And, uh, they needed to elect Larry Elder out there. They needed to elect a white supremacist black man, right. Republican Larry Elder. Yeah, Larry Elder, the white supremacist. The Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan. I'm sure growing up in South Central La. I'm sure he was a white supremacist like the La times accused him of being. Uh, but this is the state of politics in Ohio. Uh, it's coming this way. As nutty as things are in California, ohio is always like a half a step behind. We never seem to be in this state in a leadership position. I was listening if you don't mind me continuing to blab, I was listening to the radio. And for example, the Ohio Board of Education today is going to vote on this very brave position that they've now taken to support Title Nine. And, uh, girls in, um, their ability to compete and get scholarships and, uh, girls only swimming, playing basketball, running track against other bio girls. Wow. Ohio Board of Education. You're only about eight years behind on this. Okay? This all goes back to Obama's administration, when his Board of, uh, when his Department of Education issued regulations saying that you could decide on a daily basis, maybe hourly basis, what your gender is, what your sex identity is. And, uh, the opponents, you know, have always said, well, that's going to lead to sexual, uh, identity regulation. Yes, it is. See, that happens on your birth certificate. When the doctor writes down boy or girl on your birth, that's called regulation. So, yes, regulation in that case is, uh, what's called the facts of life. It's called the truth. It's called reality. And I know that's scary to our liberal friends out there, that reality. And facts are scary. But welcome to reality. Welcome to the real world, people. Now that there is a tidal wave behind title Nine. Now that there are all these mothers and fathers that are standing up for their girls in sports, and now that girls themselves are, uh, being bolder and speaking out on behalf of themselves, now the State of Ohio's Board of Education finds the courage to come out and get behind this, what, uh, should have been obvious eight years ago, but this is typical cowardly Ohio leadership. I'm so disappointed in Republicans. We've had Republican governors, uh, nothing but Republican governors since Dick Celeste 20 years ago, and yet we have all these wacky regulations and all of this excessive taxation in the state of Ohio. They have totally let us down. So it is time for change. And that means getting rid of the rhinos and bye bye, Rob Portman. I'm glad you're resigning, and I'm glad you're not running for office. Let's go, JD. Vance. That's all I got to say. Let's bring in some conservatives, and, um, we need a wholesale change, guys.

Steve: Well, I mean, I guess we'll call it a rant. I can't disagree with anything you're saying, but I do see a glimmer of hope here, is that there's going to be a backlash. And there has to be, I would think. I mean, I, uh, was talking to somebody walking over to court today. I'm not going to mention names, but it's not somebody I think they would normally vote on the conservative side of things would be a hardcore Democrat voter. And, uh, the individual just said, uh, yeah, we need to change things. This election, it's like everything has gone too far. Everything has gone too far. And as soon as we let that camel in the tent with all this other craziness, you get it all. You're not going to just get the one thing that you like about that agenda. You're going to get all of it and then all of it right quick. It's going to keep coming and coming and coming. They do not stop. And then if you disagree with them, then you're ignorant or you're racist or you're just stupid or you don't understand, or we know better, or I'm DeWine and I've got my fancy, you know, I've got my little quirky attitude, and I'm smart, I'm an academic, and I can tell you, Norm, how to operate your racing crew. And I know best about gas. I think people are starting to feel the direct pinch of it.

Norm: Um, even normal Democrats have, like, Tulsi Gabbard a very normal person. She served her country in uniform. She is pro American. She doesn't believe that we ought to be the world's policeman. She's taking care of home first, and then if we can help the world, fine. But we're not out there to start wars or police the whole world, take care of things at home. So she is a classic big government Democrat who I would disagree with on a whole bunch of taxation and government structure issues. But she is a normal she's what Democrats used to be, what they used to be. And she just left the Democratic Party because she found there's no place for normal people anymore.

Steve: It's crazy.

Norm: It's crazy in that party. You have to believe in all of this whack jobs, all this identity politics. And she's like, no, I'm not a racist because I m believe she's Hindu. No, I'm not a racist because, um, you know, my skin is lighter than somebody else's skin. Uh, and men aren't necessarily, uh, dominating the culture and all these other wacky things, all these notions that they have to change things to somehow make up for past injustice. She's not for all that stuff. And so she's somebody that Lyndon Johnson or John F. Kennedy or, um, any number of what I would consider your classic Democrats, even Hubert Humphrey, they would recognize her policies as being mainstream Democrat policies.

Steve: Well, you wonder what's going to happen within the Democrat, uh, party. Let's take it the other way first, because a lot of Democrats are sort of suggesting the same kind of, um, divide within the Republican Party. And I disagree, I think. Or maybe I don't. So the Republican Party now is sort of made up of the old Dwinds, the Rhinos, the guys who I think.

Norm: Were just sort of in it for the country club. Republican. That's what I call them. Sure. I used to be a caddy at a country club. And you could pick them out, the ones that wouldn't tip you, the ones that felt that they were somehow, uh, above you, like in a caste system. And they would even talk in a nasal voice. They're smarter. Um, all of that kind of stuff, as opposed to the working class Republicans, your shopkeepers, your farmers, entrepreneurs, entrepreneurs, your little accountants working in a one or two person accountancy business truly get hit when legislation change.

Steve: That's right.

Brett: There's no absorption from, uh, upper management on that.

Norm: That's right.

Steve: And I think it's worthy of discussing this before we get to, like, the schism within the Democratic Party. It's worthy of discussing what conservative values really are to everybody here and what they aren't. Because I tell people I'm conservative and I get eye rolling, or I get I can't believe it, or I can't I was like, Would you even know what I'm talking about? Because it's back to plato. You have to define the terms. We have to define what that means and what are we conserving. And it's not arcane, um, racism, uh, and arcane, uh, policies that, uh, were prejudicial and impact on others that hurt other people. We're conserving. I look at it as conserving the fundamental facts, the fundamental notions of freedom that we all enjoy. And when people start tinkering with that, when you say, I can do it better, I can wire that house better somehow. But they don't have a plan to do it. We just need to tear it down, and then we'll do it better. You, um, have to ask, wait a minute. There's a reason we're 16 on center, and there's a reason that we use 14 gauge wire and twelve gauge wire. Those things were discovered over lots and lots of time. And our founders research this. They took their time. They figured out a way to create a governmental structure that would stand the test of time if we let it. And I want to conserve that. I don't want to conserve slavery. I don't want to conserve racism. I don't want to conserve hate. I don't want to conserve anything. But I also know that there's a certain level of fundamental flaw, uh, baked into the cake of every individual and everything that individuals make up. And I think a lot of people in the Democrat side of things often think that they can legislate that away. They can pass a law that will change how somebody thinks.

Norm: Well, going right into the Vance versus Tim Ryan debate that happened a couple of nights ago would bring what you're saying out, except that the Democrat Party now doesn't even bother. They don't even bother, uh, changing the law. So take the topic of immigration, which came up in the debate, okay? Our immigration laws are not simply not being enforced. There's laws on the books to prevent illegal immigration, correct? It's all there. The deportation procedures, it's all there. The rights of the United States government to deport people who come here illegally, and how that is to be done, and what kind of court procedures are involved, and how all that works. It's all on the books. It's all there. Uh, it's simply being ignored by our administration. They're simply not doing the job. They're not protecting the border, which is one of the things you swear to when you take, uh, office, is that you're going to uphold the Constitution, and the Constitution clearly provides for the President to enforce the borders of the United States. It's one of the tenants, it's one of the jobs specified in our Constitution. So I thought it was excellent when JD. Vance pointed out that, and he took an example out of the news from here in Ohio, that ten year old little girl that was raped by her mother's boyfriend, that person was an illegal immigrant. And he hung that around Tim Ryan's neck and basically said, you've been in office in Congress for 20 years, right? And you consistently vote down any kind of building the wall, any kind of enforcement of, uh, any beefing up the Border Patrol, uh, tightening, expanding, uh, the courts, getting people, uh, stay in Mexico policy, all this stuff. You're always with Biden. You're always with Kamala Harris. You're never. You're with Nancy Pelosi. You're never for the American people. You weren't the rapist, Tim Ryan. You're not the guy who did that to that little girl. No one's saying that, but it's your lax attitude that lets in perpetrators who otherwise would not be here, who are driving drunk, who are murdering, who are killing. And I think in California's prison system, for example, the number one demographic, if you break it down, are illegal immigrants that are in the prison system for murder.

Steve: You have to wonder because I'm not going to go so far. Ah. And I think it would be absurd to say Tim Ryan supports that, but.

Norm: He doesn't support rape or murder.

Steve: It feels like he has to support the agenda. And then you have to wonder what that has consequences.

Norm: And that's what JD is pointing out. That you want to be Mr. Cool Mr. Nice. You want those people to be voters. That's the cynical part of the Democrat policy is they're thinking, oh, these Hispanics coming across the border, they vote for us, they're automatically going to vote for us.

Steve: Which is the true I don't even.

Brett: Know how you can assume that.

Norm: Well, here's how you can assume it. Because they get a bunch of freebies, which the Democratic Party gives to people. You come here, you get free medical care, you can have your baby here.

Steve: But democracy does not necessarily believe in it.

Norm: Exactly.

Steve: They're pretty concerned.

Norm: Neither does the African American.

Steve: They do not ah, the American culture.

Norm: Shouldn'T believe it either do American Indians. A lot of those votes that the Democratic Party has traditionally taken for granted and basically said, hey, if it's blue, don't ask who. You just vote a straight party ticket. That's not happening anymore.

Steve: Well, and this is back to that divide in the party. So on the Republican side, you've got this divide where they're claiming that there's these extreme Trumper Republicans, and I guess people would call me that because I believe in a conservative agenda, uh, that we can dig into for hours. On the other hand, you've got sort of the rhinos, the DeWine rhinos, who are basically would have been left leaning Democrats 20 years ago. And, uh, then you have, like, on the Democrat side, you have, uh, the crazies, the people who have this extreme Marxist agenda. Then you have like, the Tim Rice and everybody else trying to fit in. It seems like they're all trying to fit into some model that doesn't quite work, uh, because the agenda is absurd. I think anybody with a rational pea sized brain would know you can't have open borders in this country. Just let everybody in. There's not enough resources.

Norm: Ryan spent most of the debate throwing Biden and Pelosi under the bus. He spent most of the debate trying to disassociate himself, yet he doesn't do.

Steve: It when he votes.

Norm: Exactly. But in the debate right. Hey, it's the old Obama trick. Hey, I'm Bill Clinton.

Steve: That's right.

Norm: I'm middle of the road, guys.

Steve: You buy the country, I'm middle of the road.

Norm: Biden tried that and he fooled a lot of people. I'm just Mr. Grandpa, I'm going to bring us all together. I'm the nice old man, I'm in.

Steve: The middle, I'm pretty balanced, or at least do nothing.

Norm: Exactly.

Steve: But, no, he didn't just do nothing.

Norm: So he kept saying, uh, oh, no, I ran against Nancy Pelosi for speaker of the House.

Steve: Okay, great, you lost, and now you're voting for it, so you're voting with her. Look, the problem with this is that the power structure, perhaps within the parties is aligned in such a way that it doesn't really matter what the individual thinks. And, uh, you could say that in some ways about both parties. And I think what JD. Vance is trying to say is it's time to change that. And I think there is an emerging facet of the Conservative Party, and I'm not even going to call the Republican Party. We can call the Republican Party that is sort of saying, look, enough's enough. Let's use common sense here, and let's do what we say and say what we do. It's going to be very simple. And JD. Vance is that kind of guy, and I don't agree with JD. Vance on everything he says, except I do agree that if he's going to take the platform that, look, we can't have an open border and having laws that are unenforced, that's not right, I'm going to enforce it. And you can say, all right, well, that's going to negatively impact some people. It's going to positively impact other people, but at least you know where he stands, and he's not going to be a flannel mouth about it. So, uh, I think having a maybe a common sense look at things might be and I agree with you on Tulsa, there's more that I disagree with her than would agree.

Norm: Yeah, that's not the point.

Steve: But she's at least intellectually honest about it.

Norm: She's normal. She's normal. She is a normal person.

Steve: And to that end, so is not normal. But the far, far extremes will always tell you what they want to do. They're always honest about it. That's what my buddy, uh, the XJ always says. He goes, look, they're telling you exactly what to do. They want to take all your guns away. And they'll tell you that in the news. They want to get rid of gasoline cars. Biden said it, and now he's doing it. They want to stop domestic, uh, oil production. He said it, now he's doing it. And people will be you surprised if this is happening, right? I mean, this is what he said he was going to do. I had people ask me before the election, what do you think he's going to do with guns? He's going to try to take them. How do you know? Because he said it, right?

Brett: It's packaged. That you think it makes sense, like, yeah, gas cars being hurt, the environment, can we do it another way? But once you dig into the alternatives, the alternatives are horrible. They're not efficient. They're terrible for the world overall because of the mining of the battery generating.

Steve: Lithium mines are the grossest things you've ever seen.

Brett: Exactly. It's terrible for, uh, the world.

Steve: So they're taking common sense, turning it on its ear and saying, we're going to get rid of electric cars. See, we're good. Or, we're going to get rid of gas cars for electric. See, we're good. We're the virtuous people. But then to do that, they have to ruin how many lives exactly?

Brett: It comes out ruining lives. But it's across the country.

Norm: I don't care what anybody else drives. I don't care. If you want to buy an electric car, that's fine with me. What I don't like is tilting, putting your thumb on the scale, tilting the playing field. We don't have an open marketplace in automobile production or automobile choice. That's the problem. The problem is the government mandating electric cars. That's the problem. Let the market decide. Let the market decide. Let it play out. If electric vehicles make sense for fleet managers, taxi fleets, Uber fleets, uh, for individual purchasers, for, uh, ranchers, Holland cattle, uh, trailers for whoever, even for semi tractors someday, if all of that makes sense, okay, it'll happen in the marketplace because people will always do what's best for themselves with their own money, that they will vote with their feet.

Steve: And it's never perfect. Never. It's like this river that sort of flows in a direction that changes, and when it runs into an obstacle, it'll come back around, but it's always heading at least in the right direction. When the government gets involved, sometimes it heads in the right direction. But I think more often than not, it just heads in the complete wrong direction. It never takes responsibility for its wrong direction, and it just keeps double tripling and quadrupling down and blaming the other side for making it impossible for it to run in the right direction.

Norm: So if you go back in history, a lot of people don't know this stuff, okay? I happen to know this. Most of the manufacturers of automobiles going back about 120 years ago were electric vehicle manufacturers. Let me say that again for the dummies out there, okay? And you can please, for God's sake, by the biography of Henry Ford or Thomas Edison and go back and study your history. The majority let me say this very slowly for our impaired listeners out there who are not thinkers, who are not studyers, who are not students, who are lazy thinkers, the majority of American car manufacturers right around 120 years ago were electric vehicle manufacturers. The government didn't incentivize the public to buy those electric vehicles. It was simply that the infrastructure for gasoline, the carburetor efficient carburetors, and the technology for internal combustion engines had not yet been raised to the level that was marketable to a mass audience. Then along came Henry Ford and his contemporaries, and they started to make better and better gas fueled vehicles, and they eventually became more efficient than the battery powered cars. So, for example, in cleveland, Ohio, at one time, there were, like, 15, uh, electric vehicle manufacturers in just Cleveland, Ohio, at one time. Now there are maybe general motors at the lordstown plant someday will make electric vehicles, that kind of thing. But basically, the marketplace chose gasoline powered vehicles because they had better range. The cost was less, and it made more sense. Now, that's 120 year old story. If electric vehicles like the Tesla now are so much better, and people want to spend the money to buy them, let it happen. But why are you giving $7,500 in tax credit off of a rich person's income tax return? In order for them to buy a tesla is criminal. You're not giving that to poor people. You're giving it to somebody who can already afford a $60,000 tesla, right?

Steve: To them, it's just like, why wouldn't I buy um, and, you know, this is the market control that never works. If electric cars were viable, it might be slower than somebody wants it to happen. It might not happen as quickly or as efficiently, but the market will do it. The elon musk. And even he was not operating on a level playing field, right? I mean, he was getting subsidies and everything else. I suspect. I don't know that for sure, but I suspect, oh, he's enjoying some government help, for sure.

Norm: Uh, he's not stupid, right? He's like, well, if these idiot politicians want to give me a bunch of money to do this greenyweeny thing and.

Brett: Not have to pay back, why not?

Norm: Why not?

Steve: Here's the other thing, and here's a perfect example. Since we're talking about sort of the market forces in human nature. How long ago was the norm that they started enforcing death? Diesel ah exhaust, um, fluid in diesel trucks? I don't know how long ago that was. Ten years ago.

Steve: So what's happened is what, uh, was happening is that diesel motors were really, really efficient when they started doing it. They were really good, and they still are, and now they're made worse because of death. So what do people do? What, uh, are the, uh, ingenuity just rotating over?

Norm: When Steve says deaf, that stands for def. It's basically cattle urine, diesel exhaust fluid.

Steve: It's supposed to be designed to make your diesel truck run cleaner.

Norm: So when you pull in speedway folks or sheets, uh, or somewhere, or kroger, turkey hill, and you see these blue jugs that are standing next to the pumps, those are for diesel trucks. They dump that in a tank, and it's urine. It's animal pea, and it is designed to offset some sort of pollution that's, uh, in diesel fuel. And it doesn't work. Basically, if you don't put that in your diesel truck, you can't operate the truck. The truck will not start. It won't run.

Steve: And here's what's funny, is that everybody who buys a truck not everybody, but a lot of those who are buying diesel trucks, are just waiting until the warranty expires, and then they're deleting all that nonsense if they can.

Norm: The problem is, the ECU's are getting harder and harder to trick.

Steve: Yeah, well, they're people who still do it. And as soon as they get harder to trick, they'll come up with another way to trick. It's. Like, this is what it is. You cannot legislate away, um, human nature. Because if the government is forcing you to use a product that you know is crappy and you can fix it, but it's against some regulatory scheme to fix it, people are going to fix it anyway. They're going to do it anyway. You cannot say and I'm not talking about the commandment type crimes. I'm not talking about murder, theft, whatever. I mean, we're talking about this regulatory crap that says you have to have this deaf fluid. People are going to say, wait a minute, death fluid. It cost me, like, I think I paid 699 gallon for it recently, and I could just delete all this exhaust stuff and not have it. I'll do that, and my truck will run better, more efficiently, just as clean. I think if you do it right and cheaper, uh, people are going to do it. And you can say that that person isn't virtuous as you are because they're deleting their exhaust system.

Norm: All you have to do is think back about the 55 miles an hour, um, national, uh, mandated speed limit, right?

Steve: Yeah, I remember as a kidney man.

Norm: What happened? What happened? The market came up with radar detectors. The market came up with CB radio networks where people would tell, uh, other motorists who are behind them a mile or two. You got a smoky, uh, up here on the side of the road, radar in. So you guys back there a mile behind me, tone it down until you get up here and you're past the smoky, and then you can bring it back up to 70 miles an hour.

Steve: So let's talk.

Norm: This is an interesting market, responding it is to a stupid law.

Steve: And it doesn't happen with things that are, uh well, let me back up in law. We talk about two separate conceptual understandings of right and wrong. Conceptual understanding. One, and that's, uh, my term, but, uh, the first one is called malam. And say, meaning it's bad because it is. These are like, we know it's bad to steal. We know it's bad to COVID your neighbor's wife. We know it's bad to, uh, murder. You shall not do these things. We all know it's bad. That's not human nature. There are bad people that will do those things anyway. But most of us would feel innately not good about committing those types of crimes or acts. And then you have malam and prohibit them, which is this fancy way of saying, well, it's only wrong because the government says it's wrong, like speeding. And, you know, there's probably a line that you cross we're going too fast, becomes dangerous for others, and maybe it becomes mountain and say, uh, reckless behavior might be.

Norm: But yeah, if the speed limit is 70 miles an hour and somebody's doing 150, we've been in and out. Well, you might check your mirrors as a good motorist and look up every 15 seconds, 20 seconds, just to see what's going on behind you. If somebody's coming up behind you at 150 and you're going 70 right, that's a closing delta of 80 miles an hour, you're not going to see that guy. That guy's just going to suddenly be next to you.

Steve: Sure.

Norm: Right.

Steve: To matter of degree, there is a line that can get crossed. But generally speaking, uh, it's the old question. I used to go through this in my head. I used to drop off a, uh, date years ago when I lived way out in the country. And driving back at midnight on those old country roads where you can see headlights for miles, you just know at one in the morning there are no other cars out there. Do you stop at the stop sign? I always did. Or maybe it was a rolling stop, but you always wonder, it's like, why would I stop? Do I really have to stop? And you don't feel bad if you don't, or something that would hit you. But in the back of my head, it's like, well, maybe somebody's there without their lights on it. Whatever it would be.

Norm: Sure.

Brett: Because it's the weirdest feeling going through it.

Steve: It is. Right.

Brett: It's just like, wait a minute. So obviously, raise my hand.

Norm: I have.

Brett: Well, now you're going 80, 90 on most country roads, that probably gotten because anything can come in front of you.

Steve: It's dangerous.

Brett: But it is dangerous. But it sure.

Norm: Department of Homeland Security camera at that intersection.

Steve: Right. But the point is, human nature is not going to govern behavior to accord with a stupid regulation.

Norm: Right.

Steve: It's just not going to do it.

Norm: Right.

Steve: Of course, for all those out there shouting your own virtue, I dare you to make a true, honest list of all the stuff you do every day.

Norm: Shouldn't we just go through this with incandescent light bulb? I mean, remember that under Obama, we're going to get rid of light bulbs. Everybody's going to have these mercury or whatever the hell it was. That the fluorescent, uh, little curly tube light bulbs, right? And then, thankfully, the industry came up with LEDs. But you can buy an incandescent bulb now again, because we finally got rid of that idiotic regulation.

Steve: Because sometimes they're better, right?

Brett: Because they are. Who gives a ration? Who gives a rat's ass in a cold garage? I want an oldfashioned light bulb. And you want to come on. But isn't it your choice for safety features?

Norm: There's a reason, honestly, it's your choice to be inefficient.

Steve: And wouldn't the market fix this? So if I know, and I look at my electric bill, and it's an honest bill, not tinkered with by government regulation, but if it cost me $2 an hour, I'm making these numbers up. It cost me a buck an hour to run an Led light, but $2 an hour to run. And that's your choice. I get to make the choice exactly. Nine times out of ten, people are going to say, I'm not going to pay an extra buck just to run that kind of light. I'm going to use the cheaper one. It will work not as efficiently as you think you could do it if you had the hands of government at your fingertips.

Norm: So water is a legal substance, right? Water is legal. Right?

Steve: Yes.

Norm: And in central Ohio, we don't have a water shortage. So if I want to leave my house in the morning and I'm connected to Columbus water right. And I don't mind paying $1,000 water bill, I could just let it run. I could let the bathtub just run all day.

Brett: Sure.

Norm: Right.

Brett: And here's a good example. So in the township we live in, we've grandfathered in that we do not pay sewage on top of outside water. It's just straight out water.

Norm: Okay.

Steve: So it's combined.

Brett: Yeah. So the inside is sewage, and we pay for sewage and water, but the outside water, there's 2 meters. The outside meter is not going to we won't pay for sewage. It's just water.

Steve: I got you.

Brett: Okay. You see very few neighbors running water outside for watering in the lawn, because it costs them. It costs still costs, but it is at a reduced price because so it is not tied into that. But they still don't run the water that much. I found even that choice.

Steve: It's a choice in my condo complex. I lived in a condo. There was like five units or six units, all connected, and they had a single, single water bill. I was trying to get everybody to convert. It would cost like $5,000 or $3,500, I think, at the time, to bring a plumber in and convert it all to individuals. And I was talking to, uh, my realtor about it, and he goes, look, here's the deal. As soon as you do that, you will make up that $3,500 within six months, because people start using less water. And it might have been six, it might have been a year. But I agree, it was like because as soon as you have to pay for it, it has value. You will govern your own use of.

Norm: Skin in the game. That's right, skin in the game.

Steve: Uh, I dare you to pay for somebody to do your groceries or have somebody do your grocery shopping with your own credit card. They will spend twice as much even if you give them the list that you want.

Norm: Just like Newt Gingrich and Bill Clinton figured out when it came to trimming the welfare roles. Okay? At a certain point when you tell people there's no more Uncle Sam laying on your couch money, right? That after a certain number of years, you're cut off if you're an ablebodied person, because you're just demonstrating. You refuse to work. You just don't want to work. Right? What happened when they cut those people off? They went to work.

Steve: It sucked.

Norm: They didn't stay home and shrivel up and die like they were in Calcutta, India, and their Mother Teresa's constituents. No, they didn't. They went out and they got jobs and they worked. Because here was their dilemma. No more m money that way. So I got to get money some other way, right? Look, any skin in the game?

Steve: Anytime we as humans have to overcome a problem, we almost always can.

Norm: That's right.

Steve: We almost always can.

Norm: Necessity is the mother of invention, right?

Steve: How many days a week do I wake up? You guys don't know this, but I do. And I say, I think to myself, I don't feel like putting on a suit. I don't feel like putting on a shirt. I don't feel like putting on a tie. I don't feel like coming into the office. I don't feel like dealing with this. I don't what do I do every single day? Every one of those things, I mhm get up, I put my boots on, and I go to work.

Norm: Do you make your bed first? I do like Jordan Peterson said we should all do.

Steve: I make my bed first thing in the morning.

Norm: Make your bed so that you can tell yourself, I did one thing. I completed one job today. All the way. I got it all done. The, um, first thing you do, make your bed. And then you can say, I did it. I did something good today. I completed a task.

Steve: If you do that, you just might do something else.

Norm: Your whole attitude changes.

Steve: I have heard that Jordan Peterson talk about that, but I started doing that. I'm not even going to be shy about it. I went through a divorce ten years ago, however long it was ago. And I moved out and I got this little condo that was my little, uh it was actually an apartment first. I sublet from a couple of college kids who moved on. And, um, I told myself, I am going to do two things. And this helped my mental health more than anything else I've ever done in my life. I'm going to do two things. I am never, ever again going to live out of a laundry basket. I'm going to put all my clothes away, I'm going to do my laundry, and then I'm going to fold them and put them away. And they're always going to be where I need them, um, and get them back. And two, I'm going to make my bed every single day. Every day. And maybe there's probably been a couple of exceptions where I didn't whatever happened, but maybe the dog was still on the bed or something.

Brett: Uh, are you going to wash the sheets that day?

Steve: Why am I making it even then? I still do. And it has changed my outlook on life. It really has.

Norm: Sure.

Steve: Those two things. Because it just feels like you're doing something. And this is back to the welfare argument. People are capable.

Norm: Of course.

Steve: It's almost insulting to say that you are not capable. We need to do it for you.

Norm: One thing George Bush used to say that I totally agree with George the Younger. It's the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Steve: Yes.

Norm: When you assume that people of another color, another race, another ethnicity, uh, another religion, that somehow you're going to have to patronize those people right. Because they're less capable than you. Like you have some kind of arrogant, I don't know, Yankee attitude because you went to Yale or Harvard Yankee.

Steve: That's the elitist.

Norm: I mean, that is incredible. Well, I'm combining the two, but you.

Steve: Can use the term Yankee in different.

Norm: Because he went to Yale. So Bush went to Yale. That's why I'm throwing that in there. He overcame that attitude at, uh, Yale and decided, you know what, I don't want to look at people that way anymore like my fellow Yaleis look at other people from other cultures. I'm going to assume everybody is just as smart as me, everybody is just as capable as me. M, that if given the opportunity to flourish this is the American dream, that if you're given equality of opportunity, not resources, but opportunity, then you can do anything I can do and maybe a lot better than me.

Steve: Well, and I think beyond that, beyond that, uh, in addition, it's not just that people are capable of doing what you can do. It is that they can do things that you can't do well.

Norm: They can exceed.

Steve: But even if they don't make as much money doing the things that you.

Norm: Can do, it can be more important work, for sure.

Steve: It is valuable to them, and it's valuable to the world. So when people scoff at those who, uh, fix cars or I see this elitist on both sides of the aisle too. I see this elitist nonsense and like, oh, he's just a this and he comes back dirty, whatever. Some of the most impressive people I've ever encountered in my life are guys who come home with dirt under their fingernails. Of course, like the most capable individuals not only in their own personal lives, but m, in what they do for a living.

Norm: Of course.

Steve: Um, the guys who can craft an entire house or guys who can, um, there's a very close friend of mine who has become a friend of mine. He helps me with the maintenance in this building. It's like he's got the capacity to come in and figure out an entire boiler system for a huge factory and fix it.

Norm: Well, even people who are not clever, people who are not brilliant, a man who is a janitor that does the best job he can do absolutely. Of, uh, sweeping and mopping the floors and he cares about it and he's excellent at it. That is a gift.

Steve: And anybody who's going to work with somebody who's not like that knows how crappy it is.

Norm: Sure.

Steve: Like, I have hired I'll use my own sons, son, I need to go out and sleep that walk. And they're so pissed off about it that they go out there and they said, right, yeah. And you're looking out there and it's like, damn it. So I go out there and they were like, what are you doing? So I'm going to show you how to sweep this damn walk. Because what you did is not sweeping the walk. What you did was going through the motions.

Norm: Did you hear the story about the down syndrome worker, uh, at Wendy's who was fired by the local, uh, franchisee, uh, down in Georgia after working there for 20 years? Uh, the new manager came in and decided this particular down syndrome person who had worked at Wendy's for 20 years and was getting close to retirement, that this man who had worked there was just not quite cutting it, not quite part of the team. And they let him go. And, uh, his sister, uh, you know, took to social media and just said how sad, you know, and expressed her, you know, anger at the situation and good for Wendy's headquarters here in Ohio. Turn, uh, that around and offered the man not only his job back, but, uh, severance pay if he chooses not to come back. And a big retirement party. And obviously corporate not only to put out a bad story, but also Wendy's, uh, apparently has a, uh, process in place. After all, Dave Thomas was in favor of adoption. That was one of his big causes. And coming out of that would also be jobs for people that perhaps have, uh, disabilities. Down syndrome certainly is that. And good, uh, for Wendy's, for, uh, stepping in and taking corrective action. A good Ohio company.

Brett: Yeah, exactly. I've given the example, too, of whenever, ah, we call AAA flat tire and it's bad weather. Like, I'm not going to mess with it called AAA. It's going to pay for it anyway. And the kids are alone. And I'm not trying to pat myself on the back, but the guy changes it. A couple of times I've had the kids with it. And I mean, I'll give him a really good tip, a really good tip. And I tell the kids. It changes that guy's attitude completely. It's crappy weather. He's out there changing a tire for.

Steve: Me what somebody does have a conversation.

Brett: With them and doing a really crap, though. You can tell they like doing it, though.

Steve: They like doing it.

Brett: They do, because they're out in the truck, they're driving around. They're not in an office. And it's something that they value, and they're not helping people get on their way.

Steve: Anybody in their fancy dress or their white pressed shirts in some office looking down on the city thinks that their job is more important than that one. Shame on them. Exactly. Shame on them.

Norm: I want to talk a little bit about a Supreme Court case that's waiting for cert. Seri, uh, hasn't been granted yet. It's, uh, a case of Anthony Novak versus the City of Palma. You guys are familiar with this case.

Steve: I'm not, but let me explain what sir mean. So if you want to get your case reviewed, if there's a law you're challenging, or conviction you're challenging, or some government action you're challenging, and you go up to your state court system, uh, so you go to the trial court, you lose. You go to the Court of Appeals, you lose. You go to the Supreme Court of your state, whatever that's called, and then you lose. And it's a federal or a us.

Norm: Issue.

Steve: You can go to the United States Supreme Court. That's called a petition for a writ of sercio ari. And it's like C-E-R-T-I-A-R-O uh B. But, sir, they call it C-E-R-T. Period. Um, and, uh, the Supreme Court will vote on that. The justice will vote. We want to review this case, and they don't have to.

Norm: So this case is awaiting that. Steve.

Steve: So they are waiting on the cert vote.

Norm: You and Steve will love this case. So what it is, uh, this particular gentleman, Anthony Novak, uh, created a Facebook page, which was a parody page of the Parmesan City Police Department. So he, uh, obviously thought the city parma, Ohio, the city of Parma, he thought their PD was, uh, worthy of ridicule, so he created a parody page on Facebook. He was arrested, jailed, criminally charged by the city of Parma, acquitted a trial, and then filed a lawsuit for wrongful arrest and damages and all of that kind of thing. His case was thrown out by it would be the 6th Circuit, right, Steve? Isn't that aren't we in the 6th Circuit?

Steve: Yes, six circuit courts.

Norm: So they threw it out, saying that the police had qualified immunity. Okay, well, that's fine in Nor Murdoch's opinion, that covers the individual police officers, but I don't think it should cover the city of Parma. So, uh, it's waiting for a, uh, decision by the US. Supreme Court. I hope they take the case. The Onion, as you know, which is a parody website, filed an amicus brief supporting, uh, cert in this case. And basically, their point, which is spot on, is that this is a freedom of speech case.

Steve: Exactly.

Norm: It's a freedom of speech.

Brett: You should be Mad Magazine.

Norm: Exactly right. If you want to create a page that makes fun of your local police department or your mayor what was he charged with again? Or if you want to make a parody site that makes fun of Nor Murdoch, OK, it's a free country, go for it. Knock yourself.

Brett: More publicity for Nor Murdoch.

Steve: That's not so clear. Like doing something. So what was he charged with?

Norm: I don't know the exact charges, but I'm sure it was something like, uh, falsifying, uh, whatever he was acquitted of.

Steve: He was charged criminally.

Norm: Charged criminals.

Steve: Something to do some conduct related to his website. Making fun of the police.

Norm: Exactly right.

Steve: All right. And he has sued the city and the police.

Norm: That's correct.

Steve: For I'd like to know what the cause of action was. Wrongful prosecution.

Norm: We'll talk about this next show. Here's your assignment. Steve Anthony's parody page was let's bring on his attorney.

Brett: It was modeled after the real department page. It had the same name and profile picture, but displayed the satirical slogan, we know crime. So maybe it's because he mimicked too closely. Well, now the problem is people would be confused.

Steve: I can understand why he would be acquitted. I'm trying to figure out what his cause of action is. Is it a wrongful prosecution? Cause of action, meaning you guys, you government wrongfully prosecuted me and I'm going to sue you for that. You did it on purpose. And, uh, the courts are saying, no, there's immunity, meaning you're not allowed to do that. We have created this artificial, and I use the word artificial in a it's not a legal sense. They've created a law that says you're not allowed to sue the government, um, because they're immune. Otherwise we couldn't get government actors to do their job. Well, ah, immunity issues are about as complicated as it gets. Qualified immunity, absolute immunity. I mean, these are really, really complicated problems.

Norm: Right.

Brett: The Palmer Police Department did not appreciate Anthony's criticism, citing eleven calls that Palmer residents made to a nonemergency line to either ask about our title on Anthony's parody page. Police obtained a warrant for his arrest, searched his apartment, seized his electronics, charged him with a felony under an Ohio law. That criminalizes using a computer. His felony to disrupt police operation.

Norm: Yes. Pasta bong. Pass the out of their mind now.

Steve: So here's what they were doing. They tried to relate this. So what you can't do is you can't go, um, like you can't scramble a scanner or police scanner.

Norm: Uh, and he didn't do anything of.

Steve: The kind they tried to relate it to something like that. Or if you like, at a scene and the police are trying to investigate, uh, you can't jam, you can't put.

Norm: A bubble gum lights up on the roof of your car and run around with a badge on all the he didn't do any of that. He made fun of the cops. The cops didn't like it. The prosecutors got their feelings hurt. That's as simple as that.

Norm: It's a joke.

Steve: That's so insane.

Brett: Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Now, again, we live in Columbus. It could be a higher percentage in Columbus and Cleveland. This is a state thing. And again, I say there is room for public transportation. There is people need it. But we make so much focus of this.

Steve: And it's not because of the outcome of that proposed policy, it's because of the virtue of the policy itself at the inception. It reminds me of Thomas Soul in his book, uh, Basic Economics. He tells a story back in Jim, uh, Crow days, he took two cities. I don't think he even said which city it was. Um, but there were two cities and it was back in the days. And if you were a, ah, black individual or citizen, you had to ride in the back of the bus. Alright, so in one city it was public transportation. The busing was run by the city. In another city it was private, mhm? And within very short order, the privately owned busing company no longer enforced any rule about where black people had to sit in the bus, mhm? And in the public side, it was enforced rigidly, mhm? And you know, you would think, why? Well, because during rush hour, there is no private carrier, racist as they may be, that would want uh, a halfempty bus. It's stupid. It's dumb. The government spending your money didn't care.

Brett: Right?

Steve: They didn't care. Their racist, crap ideology was more important.

Norm: No skin in the game.

Steve: No skin in the game.

Brett: Just a few more things. A quarter of us work in education, health care or social systems, which I think we pretty much knew. It's who we are. Medium household income, $58,000. We're a little bit lower than the nation. $64,000. Our home ownership is 66%. It was funny. I thought it was interesting that most, uh, of the homes in Ohio are in that one hundred thousand dollars to two hundred thousand dollars realm, which is good. It's affordable home, ultimately. This, um, one kind of caught me, and I didn't realize the number. So 47.5% of residents, 15 plus, are married. I don't know why they went down to 15, which is weird. Um, of married Ohioans, 15,700 are LGBTQ couples.

Steve: Hold on, I want to go back to that marriage stat. Say it again.

Brett: 47.5% of residents are married over the age of 15.

Steve: Why are they trying to water that status?

Brett: I don't know.

Steve: Because if you took it over the age of 18, it probably goes up.

Brett: To something higher, I would think. So, legally, can you get married to 15? Or do you even understand what the number? Why 15?

Steve: And then the very next statue gave sort of explains it. It could be marriage does not become woke anymore.

Brett: Yeah, right. And, uh, I guess I bring the point. I have lots of gay friends. I really am not that against the gay marriage situation. That's not really a discussion for today. But my point is there aren't that many that do have a big voice. 15,700 LGBTQ couples.

Steve: So it's 15,700. Are they married or just couples they classify?

Brett: Well, let's put it this way. That comprises 1% of married couples. So I think they're married. Okay. That is one 10th of 1% of the Ohio population. .00.

Steve: Pretty interesting when you say it that way.

Norm: So dopey Colleen Marshall at the debate. They brought that up.

Brett: Listen to them. But they have such a big voice. But it's 15,000 of them. You think it would be a half a million.

Norm: Most of those people do not want to argue about anything.

Brett: I don't think they do either. No, they don't.

Norm: Probably a fraction of signaler.

Brett: Exactly.

Norm: It's virtue signaler nonlesbians that want to utilize that to bash other people. Most gays, most lesbians, as you know, can be a variety of things. They can be liberal, they can be conservative.

Brett: They're gun carrying.

Norm: Uh uh, here's the point. In the Goddang debate between Vance and Ryan, that very issue, the LGTQ BLT. Sandwich Coalition, which doesn't exist as a coalition, because within that group of people, they're as diverse as hetero people are. They are not a coalition. But it is presented that way in order to brickbat conservatives with the idea. So Colleen Marshall at the debate is asking questions about that very, quote, community, which is not a community, which is an interest group used to bash conservatives as being somehow prejudiced against people in that community, which conservatives are not. Conservatives don't care who do you go to bed with, who you sleep with. They don't care about any of that. As long as you don't hurt other people. They don't care what you do in your private life. That's what a conservative believes. Okay? Unlike. Liberals who are very worried about what you do and very worried about who you sleep with and very worried about what color you are or even who.

Steve: You do business with.

Norm: Exactly. They, uh, are all about identity. Conservatives don't give a crap about your identity. So colleen marshall's asking vance all these questions about what you're going to do visa vis LGTQ DLT sandwich people, and his answer should have been, I'm not running for supreme court justice, okay? Those decisions are made above my pay grade.

Brett: Exactly.

Norm: But, hey, this is what the media likes to focus on. Uh, that's a great point, brett, and it's one that drives me nuts, and it's one that more and more gay and lesbian conservatives are addressing head on and saying, hey, wait a minute. This has nothing to do with republicans versus democrats. You're exploiting you're once again, using identity politics to split us up as a society and get us to fight each other.

Steve: It's like saying, you have black skin and therefore you must be a criminal. Because I know a black criminal. Exactly right. Or you have white skin, so you must be a racist because I know some white racists.

Brett: I think that number puts things in perspective.

Norm: It does.

Brett: You think it's such a larger group, and it exists.

Norm: Of course.

Brett: But why do we make such big.

Norm: Damn deal about that?

Brett: Answers. It right there.

Norm: It's a way to divide us and.

Brett: Put some common sense.

Norm: I deeply resent that. I deeply resent people using wedge issues to divide us there.

Steve: I have met gay men who I don't like. I have met gay men who I'm very good friends with, and it doesn't make any difference to me. Just like cateromen, I've met like you, norm. I tolerate you, but I hate you.

Norm: Hey, there's a funny story. Um, a wild turkey, uh, the police in miami township, ohio, tried to arrest a wild turkey that guilty of breaking and entering. It flew through a window in some lady's house, okay? And I think she was in reasonable fear for her life. She probably had the right to use deadly force.

Steve: If she had shot that thing, she'd probably been charged with, uh, ODNR would.

Norm: Have been hunting a turkey in your house.

Steve: It might be in seasons, but there's.

Norm: Body cam video, people. If you want to go out there and duck, duck, go this or google it, whatever, search engine. Um, miami. Ah. Township police have body cam video of the police trying to trap this wild turkey. The turkey got away. It still wanted for breaking and entering. It went back out the window and left a big mess of feathers all.

Steve: Over the day anybody's tried to hunt turkeys or it killed a turkey and had I mean, these are big, mean animals. Big and mean. I've seen turkey shredded by calls to cops.

Norm: The cops said, well, um, we'll count this first case for us of a wild Turkey. Uh, breaking and entering discriminatory behavior to me. But, hey, to the police's credit now, you got to love this. They stayed afterwards and helped her board up the window. I mean, that is damn good public service. Surprise.

Brett: There's not a meme going around with Wild Turkey bottle. Man. You have Wild Turkey there?

Norm: That could have been a Thanksgiving dinner, right?