Mission Transition: SkillBridge's Role in Civilian Careers | The Pair Program Ep51

Tim Winkler: 00:00:04

Welcome to The Pair Program from hatchpad, the podcast that gives you

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a front row seat to candid conversations

with tech leaders from the startup world.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler, the

creator of hatchpad, and I'm

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your other host, Mike Gruen.

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Join us each episode as we bring

together two guests to dissect topics

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at the intersection of technology,

startups, and career growth.

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Welcome back to The Pair Program.

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I'm your host, Tim Winkler,

alongside my co host, Mike Gruen.

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Uh, Mike, all the, all the talk

around here is, is back to school.

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Um, so are your, your kids,

are they the type that are

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like super excited about that?

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Are they dreading it?

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Oh yeah.

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Two

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Mike Gruen: teenage boys.

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Oh, they're raring to go back.

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They are now.

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They, I was going to say, the only,

the only, um, I think the only exciting

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thing is that for my older one,

he's a senior, so that'll be nice.

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Uh, sort of the end is in

sight, at least for high school.

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And then my, um, my younger one is

going to be a freshman this year.

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So he's going to do school.

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So there's a mix of excitement

and, you know, I'm sure anxiety and

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dread, um, going to do all that.

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So,

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Tim Winkler: um,

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Mike Gruen: but yeah, I always love to see

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Tim Winkler: like all the parents with

just a look of glee on their face.

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Like get these kids out of here.

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I've had enough.

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The summer's over a little bit.

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I don't know.

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Mike Gruen: I like having them

around, um, during the summer.

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Um, I don't know.

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You're just saying that because this

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Tim Winkler: isn't going to go live

and they'll No, no, no, not at all.

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Your wife will stream it.

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Mike Gruen: No, not at all because I

do also, when they go to school, the

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nice thing about them coming home from

school is that it's like a nice, like a

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little reminder, like, Hey, like, this

is how many hours I've been working.

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Um, so it's sort of a nice little reminder

of like, start wrapping things up.

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Um, because I think I put them,

put everybody home all the time.

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It's, it's easy to go till nine o'clock

at night and not even realize it.

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Tim Winkler: Are you just saying

that because your boss is going

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to stream this and hear this?

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Yeah, that's a, that's

actually, that's absolutely it.

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Nailed it.

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Uh, my, uh, my parent, my parent will,

will, will play off of back to school.

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So, um.

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There you go.

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All right, good stuff.

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Well, uh, let's go ahead and, uh, uh,

give the listeners a little bit of a

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preview of what we're, we're talking

about, uh, on this, today's episode.

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So we've got a pretty action packed

episode for, for our listeners.

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It's, it's centered entirely

around, um, uh, the Department

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of Defense Skill Bridge Program.

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Uh, so for those not familiar, the Skill

Bridge Program is an opportunity for,

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uh, military service members to To gain

a valuable civilian work experience

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through specific industry training

or apprenticeships or internships

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during their last 180 days of service.

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Uh, so skill bridge connects

these, uh, transitioning service

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members with industry partners

and real world job experiences.

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So this will be a useful episode for,

for startups and employers that are

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looking to, to maybe engage or hire

service members and likewise for

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Um, you know, uh, military members

transitioning into civilian life.

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Uh, this will be a nice little,

uh, maybe how to, if you've

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never dabbled with it before.

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Uh, so with us today is, uh, John

Sokol, uh, former naval flight officer

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with 20 years of, uh, distinguished

military service, uh, who successfully

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transitioned into civilian life

through the skill bridge program.

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Uh, and then alongside John, we have

Cameron Watts, the innovation director

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at a dual use startup, Zero Eyes.

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Uh, that hires extensively

through the skill bridge program.

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Uh, and I'll point out that Cam has a

military background as well as a former

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member of the 75th Ranger Regiment.

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Uh, paired with a career in the

world of venture capital prior

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to joining zero eyes as well.

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So John and Cam, thank you both

for your service and thank you for

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joining us on The Pair Program today.

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Cameron Watts: Thanks for having us.

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Absolutely.

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Pleasure to be here.

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Tim Winkler: All right.

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Uh, so before we dive in, we do kick

things off with our pair me up segment.

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Uh, here's where we all kind of

go around the room and spitball a

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complimentary pairing of our choice.

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Mike, uh, you lead us off.

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What do you, what do you got?

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Mike Gruen: So today's, um,

is not particularly exciting,

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but I'm excited about it.

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Cause I'm a nerd, um,

knickknacks and museum wax.

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So as you can see behind me,

those who can't, I have a bunch

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of stuff on the shelves back here.

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Um, we also have cats and

there's also not a lot of space.

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So just this morning, uh,

I got some museum wax.

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It arrived.

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I'm looking forward to sticking all of

my things down so they stop falling over.

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So, um, and it's what they use in museums.

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It's like, you, it's semi permanent.

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Like you can move them,

but like, it's, it's.

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They're down and it's not meant

for like moving them around again.

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So, uh, but it's, it comes off clean

and all that, but I'm, I'm excited to

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get all my stuff locked down back there.

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Cause I'm tired of cleaning it up.

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Uh, bring it back.

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Tim Winkler: And that is

you're nerding out on this one.

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That was, that was, uh,

I've never heard of that.

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I didn't even know that was a thing.

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Oh,

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Mike Gruen: I stumbled on it and

I, I had no idea that it existed.

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And then I read it, somebody posted

something about it and I was like,

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oh, I need to look into that.

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That's, I need that in my life.

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, I,

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Tim Winkler: I remember my uncle used to

have these, um, little shadow boxes that

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would hang on the wall, you know, and

just put like these little trinkets in it

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and, you know, someone was roughhousing

around, , it'd bump into the wall.

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Like they all, they all

just kind of like fall out.

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So I could see museum wax being a.

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A useful, uh, addition to

something like that, but yeah.

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All right.

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Um, cool.

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All right.

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I'll, I'll, uh, I'll jump in.

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Uh, so again, kind of given that it's

back to school week, uh, I'll turn

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back the hands of time to when I was

in elementary school and thinking about

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some classic pairings from like a snack

and lunch perspective, I was going

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to go with Lunchables and Capri Suns.

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Uh, it's like a good one, two

punch for like food and drink.

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in elementary school back in the day.

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I don't know if they even still make

these, uh, processed foods, uh, like

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they, like they used to, but for

those that don't remember Lunchables,

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uh, I feel sorry for you cause they

were amazing, but they're these

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little individual pre packaged meals.

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With lunch meats and little

cheeses and crackers.

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So it's like a little kid version of a

charcuterie board and then Capri suns.

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If you don't know what Capri suns

are, then I just, I might've lost

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her words, but it's a staple kid

drink, uh, packed with sugar and.

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They come in that little impossible to

open metallic pouch that you stab with

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a straw and it just spills everywhere.

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Um, those, that's my, that's my,

yeah, throwback, uh, pairing.

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So I'm going Lunchables

and, uh, and Capri Suns.

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You guys know what I'm talking

about with Lunchables, right?

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I'm too old.

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You don't remember,

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Mike Gruen: Mike?

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It's not that I don't remember.

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I was, I was in college.

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Like, yeah.

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Cameron Watts: You really showed your

age there by, by defining the two.

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You know, you can sort of throw in

the dunkaroos with those as well.

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Some gushers.

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Exactly.

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There still exists, but they're on

that like side of the aisles that,

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you know, you don't go anymore.

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You're at the forbidden,

the forbidden aisle.

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Tim Winkler: Uh, all right, cool.

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Let's, let's pass it over to our guest.

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Uh, John, we'll start, start with

you a quick intro and your pairing.

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John Sokol: Yeah.

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So, hey, how are you doing?

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Uh, John, so cool.

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Uh, again, Serve Navy naval

flight officer flew, which is

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playing probably barely ever seen.

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If you look close on aircraft carrier,

you'll kind of see it in a corner because

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no 1 likes it because it has propellers

and it's not a jet that does cool stuff.

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So, uh, but again, look quick.

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You'll see it.

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Uh, did that for 20 years, retired last

year, then joined the company I work for

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now, which is called Two Circle, which

we do, uh, consulting work for the Navy.

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So it's been great.

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Uh, go back to the pairing.

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So I'm originally from Pittsburgh,

Pennsylvania, a big Steelers fan.

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I was thinking through, you know, kind

of, Time of season right now getting

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excited for the start of the season,

and I think for me, a good pairing

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opening day of football, especially in

the Steelers this year, play one o'clock

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game against the Falcons, you know,

a couple Sundays from now, opening a

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day of football and a good cold beer.

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Tim Winkler: That's

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John Sokol: my

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Tim Winkler: preach.

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I'm getting super excited.

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It's that, uh, there's that crisp

crispness in the air that always

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like makes me feel like the

football season is about to begin.

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So I as well, I'm getting pretty excited.

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We're Commander's fans here, you

know, it's complete 180 on our, on

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our, uh, entire team coaching staff.

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So there's a lot to look forward to

considering we won what four games

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last year, but, um, yeah, you guys

are, uh, you guys are always, you

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know, in contention, I think, right.

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John Sokol: I mean, I feel like this

year, this is one of those, you can

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tell me they're going to be, you

know, five and 12 or 12 and five, both

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of which are completely reasonable.

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So I, it'll be an interesting season.

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Tim Winkler: It'll entirely dictate your,

your credit card bill on the alcohol

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consumption, uh, throughout the season.

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I like that one beer or 50.

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We'll see how the game goes.

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Um, cool.

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Well, thanks again for joining us.

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Cam, how about yourself?

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Quick intro and you're pairing.

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Cameron Watts: Yeah, absolutely.

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So camera Watts, uh, as, as you said,

uh, spent some time with, uh, first

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range of battalion, uh, down in Savannah

at hunter army airfield, uh, which is

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where I still live over here in Savannah.

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So enjoying the humidity and the heat.

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Um, but, uh, yeah, so we're covering

venture capitalists who has now

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worked, uh, at a, uh, a portfolio

company that we invested in years

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ago and, um, on the product team as

the investment director at zero eyes.

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Um, working on weapons detection.

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Um, so I'm going to let that kind of

lead into, uh, my perfect pairing,

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which is birdies and bullets.

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So I got the golf clubs and

then the weapons detection.

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So, uh, that's the perfect pairing for me.

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Birdies and bullets.

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I do shoot as well.

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So I, uh, I'll keep neither one is

as straight as I'd like it to be.

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So yeah.

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Tim Winkler: I was going to

say, how many birdies are you

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averaging out there on a round?

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Cameron Watts: Yeah, so it, uh,

right now I'd say none, um, but,

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uh, you know, I think I'm about

a 14 handicap, 13 these days.

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So sounds like they

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Tim Winkler: trickle in

women, but it holds her short.

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Sounds like you and I would

be great car partners.

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I'm right.

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I'm right there with you.

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Cameron Watts: I'm a blast to play with.

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That's all that matters.

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Tim Winkler: Hey, we

actually talked earlier.

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I'll be down there in a month or so.

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So looking forward to, uh, you

know, teeing it up with you.

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Awesome.

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Well, thanks.

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Thanks again for joining us, Cam.

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Um, and, uh, that'll kind of wrap us

up on, on the, uh, pair me up segment.

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So let's go ahead and transition

into the heart of the discussion.

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So like I mentioned, we're, we're

talking about the skill bridge

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program on today's episode and.

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Uh, so I was doing some additional

research both on, on skill bridge and

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a little bit more on, on zero eyes cam.

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And I stumbled across an interesting

quote from one of your co founders,

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uh, and the COO of zero eyes, Rob

Huberty, uh, who's a former Navy SEAL.

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And for a little further context,

you know, zero eyes is a veteran

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owned and operated company

founded by former Navy SEALs.

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We'll get, we'll get more into that.

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But this quote, I wanted to share it

with our listeners because I think it's

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a great jump off to the conversation

around the importance of skill bridge,

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um, beyond just, you know, the opportunity

specifically as, as well, but Rob

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said, uh, and I quote, my transition

from the military to civilian life

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was more difficult than I imagined.

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I struggled to find meaning

in the corporate world.

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Uh, so did the rest of the Zero Eyes team.

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After the military, we all had

jobs that were generally considered

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good, maybe even great, and went to

universities considered excellent.

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But we lacked a mission driven purpose.

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Um, there's a little bit more

to the quote, but I just I'm

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gonna end it right there.

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So I wanted to start the discussion

with UCAM and maybe expanding a

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little bit more on a little bit

on the origin story of Zero Eyes

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and how Skill Bridge has become a.

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Maybe a fundamental part of

the growth, uh, at the startup.

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And then from there, we can dive a

little bit deeper into the, how the,

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how the program works, uh, from the

employer perspective, and then we'll

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bounce over to you, John, and hear from,

you know, the candidate perspective,

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somebody going through the program.

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So, so Cam, why don't you lead us off?

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Cameron Watts: Yeah, absolutely.

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So, um, Rob's quote could not be

more heartfelt on my end as well.

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So, um, when I got out, I was,

you know, treading water, trying

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to figure out what to do next,

but, but I can get to that later.

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So, uh, Zero Eyes was, was, uh, brought

to inception, um, from, like I said,

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a group of Navy SEALs, uh, Mike Leahy,

the CEO, um, you know, there was some,

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some active shooter scenarios going on.

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And his daughter looked at him one

day and asked if that was going to

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happen at his school, at her school.

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And, uh, you know, he started at P.

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K.

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Meetings and things kind of probing him.

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Hey, what sort of protocols do you

have in place and things like that?

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And he kind of just the more

and more he dove into it.

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Um, you know, the more and more

scared he got of the situation.

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So, uh, instead of, uh, you know,

sitting back and worrying about

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it, decided to do something.

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And, uh, created what we have today,

uh, you know, started with, uh, a bunch

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of guys in the basement walking around,

uh, and putting guns up in front of

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different cameras and getting them

to register it from different angles.

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So, um, since then, you know, 6, 7 years

now, and, uh, series B just did a, uh.

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A pretty nice funding round.

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So, um, yeah, and then besides starting

with veterans, um, being founded by

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veterans, that, that mission driven

group and, and, and finding that

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purpose has really been so deep into

the culture that it's incredible.

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Um, it, it brought me in and,

and, uh, you know, brings a lot

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of us into the, to the unit.

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Uh, and again, we kind of

look at it as a unit, right?

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Everybody's got your back and everybody

gets what they need to get done.

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And there's a lot less of that.

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You know, red tape and

bureaucracy that you see at

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some of the large organizations.

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Um, but, but, yeah, so skill bridge has

been incredible, uh, benefit to zero eyes.

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I think just a quick number for you

over the past 2 years, we've hired out

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22 of the, uh, skill bridge in there.

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So, uh, huge opportunity for us to

pull great talent in and then bring

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them on, um, you know, immediately

following their internship.

306

: 00:14:26

Mike Gruen: That's awesome.

307

: 00:14:28

Tim Winkler: So how, how

does it, how does it work?

308

: 00:14:30

So how, how does, uh, an

organization kind of get involved?

309

: 00:14:34

Um, and then what are the, what are

the benefits from, you know, everything

310

: 00:14:38

from like, skills, you know, work

ethic or, um, cost, you know, where,

311

: 00:14:43

where might there, where are, are

some of these ad advant advantages

312

: 00:14:47

to an employer getting involved?

313

: 00:14:50

Cameron Watts: Yeah, so so realistically,

you know, you're getting let's

314

: 00:14:54

kind of start with best practices.

315

: 00:14:55

I think is that so so as the organization,

you, you sign up through skill bridge

316

: 00:15:00

and you put yourself out there saying,

hey, we're open up to opportunities.

317

: 00:15:04

And here's kind of the list there.

318

: 00:15:06

And again, this is me learning

in hindsight, because it did

319

: 00:15:09

not exist on on my exodus.

320

: 00:15:12

But, you know, so so it's out there and.

321

: 00:15:16

You, the candidate will go on, look, look

at the organization, either done by maybe

322

: 00:15:20

region or, you know, organization type,

what, what industry it's in, things like

323

: 00:15:25

that kind of filter it down for them,

and then they'll, uh, submit a resume

324

: 00:15:29

that'll come in and, uh, you know, we,

we actually have a dedicated skill bridge

325

: 00:15:34

kind of owner at, at zero eyes that, that.

326

: 00:15:37

Manages all of that, and it goes out

and really started to push further

327

: 00:15:40

initiatives into skill bridge because

it's been so successful for us.

328

: 00:15:43

But, um, you know, go in there and

then start to pair them not only

329

: 00:15:46

with what their resume says, or

what their military, um, you know,

330

: 00:15:49

kind of background was because that

doesn't always immediately translate.

331

: 00:15:53

So then kind of start

to do a little bit of a.

332

: 00:15:56

Personality and character traits

that that'll match with certain

333

: 00:16:00

parts of the organization.

334

: 00:16:01

Um, you know, hey, this, this

1 will fit over here at ops.

335

: 00:16:05

This 1 may want to be on the install team.

336

: 00:16:07

This 1 makes that on the

product team, et cetera.

337

: 00:16:09

Um, and we've also looked at kind

of rotational programs to kind of

338

: 00:16:13

say, okay, hey, this is this is

somebody who's got a decent skill

339

: 00:16:16

set in a couple of different areas.

340

: 00:16:17

But could really hone and gain some

exposure in other areas of business.

341

: 00:16:21

And then they can hop around

the organization through

342

: 00:16:24

different departments, which,

which really allows them to, uh,

343

: 00:16:27

build some experience quickly.

344

: 00:16:29

And that's extremely advantageous because

it's kind of that catch 22, right?

345

: 00:16:33

Like, Hey, how do I get experience

without having experience?

346

: 00:16:36

Right.

347

: 00:16:36

And, uh, you know, so it kind of

pushes that, um, a little bit inwards.

348

: 00:16:40

And, and then from there, I think, you

know, if it's not a fit for zero eyes, one

349

: 00:16:44

of the benefits, the kind of the startup

ecosystem and the venture ecosystem

350

: 00:16:49

is the networking that that's done.

351

: 00:16:51

So we also, if it doesn't fit for us

or maybe we don't fit for them, we very

352

: 00:16:56

quickly open up our Rolodex and start

to place them at other places as well.

353

: 00:16:59

So, um, you're getting talent that

you wouldn't necessarily get to see.

354

: 00:17:04

And, uh, as well as just

the talent that's there.

355

: 00:17:07

Yeah.

356

: 00:17:08

They're not typically putting themselves

out there because they kind of have

357

: 00:17:11

a little bit of an imposter syndrome.

358

: 00:17:13

Maybe they're getting out and they don't

think that they're qualified enough yet.

359

: 00:17:16

So they're, they're not pushing

into those, uh, arenas yet,

360

: 00:17:19

but, but everybody's got the

opportunity and the chance.

361

: 00:17:22

So getting that visibility is,

is really been successful for us.

362

: 00:17:26

Tim Winkler: Yeah, I think

that's really interesting.

363

: 00:17:28

Like the, like the carousel approach

where it's like, you know, spend some

364

: 00:17:31

time in finance and spend some time in

product, spend some time here and there.

365

: 00:17:35

So.

366

: 00:17:36

Um, I think that's, uh, I've seen

that in, in internships before.

367

: 00:17:40

And I think that's a really nice

approach to folks that don't really

368

: 00:17:43

always know what they're going to do.

369

: 00:17:45

Cameron Watts: That's right.

370

: 00:17:45

I was raised with the mindset of,

uh, to the man with, with only a

371

: 00:17:49

hammer, every problem's a nail.

372

: 00:17:51

So, uh, now I just try to

keep building my toolbox, uh,

373

: 00:17:54

instead of just having a hammer.

374

: 00:17:56

Tim Winkler: I love it.

375

: 00:17:57

I was curious on cost.

376

: 00:17:58

Is there a cost to the, the employer,

um, or is there actually a savings

377

: 00:18:05

considering It sounds like these, these

individuals are still, are they, are

378

: 00:18:09

they most, most, for the most part act

still active duty for the last 180 days?

379

: 00:18:14

Cameron Watts: Yeah, that's right.

380

: 00:18:15

So, you know, kind of best practices

of it would be to start figuring

381

: 00:18:18

that out about 180 days out and in a

perfect scenario, you, you, you get

382

: 00:18:22

a hybrid situation or it can be kind

of full time, um, on premises, right?

383

: 00:18:26

It just, it's really up to the, uh,

the candidate themselves, um, or

384

: 00:18:30

to the company and how they set it.

385

: 00:18:31

We, we are a relatively

hybrid, uh, organization.

386

: 00:18:35

So, so we're open to that.

387

: 00:18:36

And, uh, you know, we also have

full time remote positions, but

388

: 00:18:40

we also have ones in the office.

389

: 00:18:41

And we have a.

390

: 00:18:43

Location in Hawaii.

391

: 00:18:44

So, uh, I feel there's probably a lot

of appeal to go there for 180 days.

392

: 00:18:49

So I think that's something

that will really ramp up here

393

: 00:18:52

shortly, uh, at our ZOC, the Zero

Eyes Operation Center out there.

394

: 00:18:55

So, um, yeah, there's no

cost to the company, uh, no

395

: 00:18:58

cost to the individual there.

396

: 00:19:00

It's technically like they just took

a, you know, a little break for 180

397

: 00:19:03

days before they get out officially

and then go hop on, um, hop on the

398

: 00:19:08

bus and see where it takes them.

399

: 00:19:11

Tim Winkler: Cool.

400

: 00:19:12

We'll, um, we'll, we'll, we'll

get a little bit deeper into it.

401

: 00:19:16

Um, as we, as we get through a little

bit more of John's, uh, feedback on the

402

: 00:19:21

program as well, because we actually had

a former guest on the program, uh, on

403

: 00:19:25

The Pair Program that, um, you know, kind

of talked a little bit more about, uh,

404

: 00:19:30

uh, a startup that he was building that.

405

: 00:19:32

I saw some holes in the program where

there was room for some improvement.

406

: 00:19:36

Um, but, uh, I, I do want to hear

John from your perspective, you

407

: 00:19:41

know, walk me through, you know, uh,

from a service members, you know,

408

: 00:19:45

mindset, you know, getting introduced

to skill bridge, you know, is there.

409

: 00:19:50

Is there a lot of awareness around it?

410

: 00:19:52

Um, how did you hear about it?

411

: 00:19:54

And then how was your experience kind

of transitioning using the program?

412

: 00:20:00

John Sokol: Yeah, so, um, I guess

everything Cam said is pretty accurate

413

: 00:20:05

as far as like, uh, my experience as

well once I got to my skill bridge.

414

: 00:20:09

Uh, so, leading up to, uh, Uh,

my actual retirement, which

415

: 00:20:13

was last March 1st or whatever.

416

: 00:20:16

Um, I started looking around.

417

: 00:20:18

I mean, I think skill bridge at this point

is one of those things that I think most

418

: 00:20:22

service members have probably heard of.

419

: 00:20:24

The problem is it's like, you can't

get from God that I've heard of it.

420

: 00:20:28

Now, how do I actually do it?

421

: 00:20:30

And that's where I think, you know,

there's like kind of a disconnect with

422

: 00:20:32

all these guys and, you know, ladies

and everything coming out, it's like.

423

: 00:20:36

There's no, there's no formalized process.

424

: 00:20:38

There's no, I'm going to call the school

bridge office today and talk to them and

425

: 00:20:42

they can help me out in this process.

426

: 00:20:44

So, you know, from that, you know, you

kind of have to be a little more forward

427

: 00:20:47

leaning and, um, which is easy enough

for me, you know, a little more senior.

428

: 00:20:52

Kind of been around things, kind of

understand how organizations work.

429

: 00:20:56

So for me to do it, it really

wasn't hard, you know, as far as

430

: 00:21:00

the Navy was concerned, it was

literally a single sheet of paper.

431

: 00:21:04

I filled it out, handed it to my boss.

432

: 00:21:07

He signed it and I was done.

433

: 00:21:09

And then I was kind of free to

start looking around for scope,

434

: 00:21:11

rich, you know, opportunity.

435

: 00:21:14

Um, and I did that same thing went

to that lousy website that, you

436

: 00:21:17

know, you can filter out, go by

region, all that kind of stuff.

437

: 00:21:19

I live in Virginia, so I wanted to

stay close by and I did, uh, found 1

438

: 00:21:26

with steel, the chainsaw manufacturer.

439

: 00:21:29

And, uh, which was awesome.

440

: 00:21:31

Kind of the same thing.

441

: 00:21:32

Like Cam said, for them, we had,

there was a, uh, you know, it was like

442

: 00:21:35

that point of contact that was on the

website, contacted them again, kind of

443

: 00:21:39

had to be forward leaning, go in there.

444

: 00:21:41

I eventually talked to somebody who

got me in touch eventually with a guy.

445

: 00:21:45

Basically what he did, he was

like, Hey, he's like going to the

446

: 00:21:47

website, look at job openings.

447

: 00:21:49

Pick a department you might

think is interesting and then

448

: 00:21:52

we'll kind of go from there.

449

: 00:21:53

And so I picked e commerce just because it

was something kind of outside of obviously

450

: 00:21:58

what I've done and seemed interesting.

451

: 00:22:00

So he got me in contact with the director

of e commerce there, which by the way,

452

: 00:22:05

steel, you know, you see them all over

commercials, everything like that.

453

: 00:22:09

At that point.

454

: 00:22:10

In the United States, the e commerce

department at seal was one human being,

455

: 00:22:13

that guy, which still kind of blows

my mind away, but I would just think

456

: 00:22:17

they would have a few more folks.

457

: 00:22:19

So, you know, like you're talking

to him, he's like, yeah, it's me.

458

: 00:22:26

You know, we, uh, talked to him

for a while and he's like, yeah,

459

: 00:22:29

I think it'd be a good fit.

460

: 00:22:30

And, uh, you know, we

were off to the races.

461

: 00:22:32

He brought me on, uh, kind of did

the same thing, just like, uh, Cam

462

: 00:22:35

was saying He was awesome dude to,

uh, work for and with and everything.

463

: 00:22:40

He was like, Hey, you know, if

e commerce isn't your thing.

464

: 00:22:43

And really at that point, I kind

of realized it wasn't my thing.

465

: 00:22:45

Cause it was a, uh, like

analytics type, uh, role.

466

: 00:22:48

And I just couldn't be like heads down

a computer, just analyzing data all the

467

: 00:22:53

time, which is kind of not how I work.

468

: 00:22:55

So, uh, but that was fine.

469

: 00:22:57

It was, you know, in and of itself,

that was the education I learned.

470

: 00:23:00

Do you, you know, sometimes

it's not just learning that day.

471

: 00:23:03

I love this thing.

472

: 00:23:03

It's learning.

473

: 00:23:04

I don't love this thing too.

474

: 00:23:05

So that's what, that was my case.

475

: 00:23:06

Yeah.

476

: 00:23:07

Uh, but he allowed me to go around to the

different departments in steel and just

477

: 00:23:11

kind of talk to folks, get a feel for

what they do, see if anything interests

478

: 00:23:14

me around those different offices as well.

479

: 00:23:17

So, all in all, I mean, it

was a fantastic opportunity.

480

: 00:23:21

I'd recommend, obviously, everyone do it.

481

: 00:23:22

Um.

482

: 00:23:24

I guess, you know, and I don't

know if we're going to go down the

483

: 00:23:26

road if you want to wait, but, uh.

484

: 00:23:28

You know, the big the big barriers.

485

: 00:23:30

You know, for the for the military

side of it is that wherever you're

486

: 00:23:35

working at that place has to basically

accept that they're not going to

487

: 00:23:38

have somebody to fill your job.

488

: 00:23:40

So, if you're the easiest 1, I think

always, if you're like an emergency room

489

: 00:23:45

doctor, you can't be like, well, I want to

do a coverage because, like, when I don't

490

: 00:23:48

have an emergency room doctor anymore,

you know, for me, it was a little easier.

491

: 00:23:51

Like, I'm just I'm

getting ready to retire.

492

: 00:23:55

Kind of hanging on just barely.

493

: 00:23:56

So super easy for me

to go off and do that.

494

: 00:23:59

But for some folks and little more

high demanding jobs, they actually

495

: 00:24:03

can't do it because of that.

496

: 00:24:04

So that kind of stinks.

497

: 00:24:07

But I mean, that's

498

: 00:24:08

Tim Winkler: the command has to kind

of like approve you doing the program.

499

: 00:24:12

It's not like you just,

everybody qualifies to correct.

500

: 00:24:16

John Sokol: Yeah.

501

: 00:24:16

Yes.

502

: 00:24:17

The command has to do it.

503

: 00:24:18

And there's actually a few more rules.

504

: 00:24:19

I wish I knew them better.

505

: 00:24:21

Should have taken a look for

this because now there's.

506

: 00:24:24

There's different rules now about like,

if you are, I retired as a, uh, as a 05,

507

: 00:24:30

as a commander, it doesn't matter what

it, what it means is the higher, like

508

: 00:24:35

the ranks you are, the less time they

actually give you to do skill bridge.

509

: 00:24:38

So, instead of doing the 180

days, I think now they'll let you

510

: 00:24:41

do 3 months of it or whatever.

511

: 00:24:43

I'm sorry.

512

: 00:24:43

Uh, maybe it is 3 months, whatever

it is, it kind of condenses.

513

: 00:24:47

So then.

514

: 00:24:48

You know, you start running into all these

problems too with your timing, right?

515

: 00:24:51

Because it's like, okay, well, my

March, March 1st, I'm going to retire.

516

: 00:24:55

So you back that up 3 months.

517

: 00:24:56

Now that's, you know, uh, December 1st.

518

: 00:25:00

And then you start looking at people

and how they do quarterly, kind of a

519

: 00:25:03

lot of the big companies do cohorts.

520

: 00:25:04

So they're doing like every quarter, every

6 months or however they're doing it.

521

: 00:25:08

And it's like, well, I literally,

you know, if you, if you don't have

522

: 00:25:11

somebody who has flexibility, then

it's like, well, you just can't do it.

523

: 00:25:15

There's just no way around it.

524

: 00:25:16

You know, there's no way,

there's no way to get into it.

525

: 00:25:18

So, um, that kind of stinks,

but, uh, you know, I mean, I

526

: 00:25:22

get it from company standpoints

and the Navy standpoint too, so.

527

: 00:25:26

That, uh, I wish that was a little better

for the whole process, but yeah, um,

528

: 00:25:33

yeah, I mean, that's

529

: 00:25:36

kind of it, I guess.

530

: 00:25:38

I

531

: 00:25:38

Tim Winkler: personally went out

and scouted the, the, the site,

532

: 00:25:41

the database myself, uh, just

to kind of get a feel for it.

533

: 00:25:45

If I was a user, um, there's,

there's definitely a lot of room for

534

: 00:25:49

improvement from user experience, right?

535

: 00:25:51

It seems like it's, uh, it's basic

enough to where, you know, you can sort

536

: 00:25:55

and filter, you know, based on some

of the criteria you mentioned, Cam.

537

: 00:25:59

But if you wanted to really go deep into

it and maybe it get a little bit more

538

: 00:26:03

granular based on, you know, ideally,

you know, looking into, um, uh, I

539

: 00:26:10

don't know, a little micro verticals

or something, get a little bit more

540

: 00:26:12

specific into some of the types of roles.

541

: 00:26:15

Um, I, I didn't find that

much of the, of the filters.

542

: 00:26:19

Um, You know, it's, it's one of those

things where, I don't know, I, you

543

: 00:26:24

know, I, I see a lot of government sites

that probably could use quite a bit

544

: 00:26:28

of polish, uh, to, to, to build up the

UX, but at the same token, like it's

545

: 00:26:34

obviously the program is, is, you know,

the foundational piece now it's time

546

: 00:26:39

to, you know, how do we build on it?

547

: 00:26:41

Like some of the things you

mentioned, like, how do we build more

548

: 00:26:42

awareness for, you know, to how to

navigate, you know, the program or.

549

: 00:26:48

Uh, you know, maybe here's a short

list of, you know, you know, knowing

550

: 00:26:51

what you've done for us, maybe here's

a short list of some of the top areas

551

: 00:26:56

that that could translate well for you.

552

: 00:26:58

Um, I kind of alluded to it

previously, but the, the, the former

553

: 00:27:02

founder, Steve Chang was his name.

554

: 00:27:04

Headlamp was the name of the company.

555

: 00:27:06

It was kind of like skill

bridge as a service.

556

: 00:27:08

Um, and then they baked in like an AI

kind of matchmaking technology based

557

: 00:27:14

on, you know, you shortlist, you know,

kind of the skills that you're familiar

558

: 00:27:18

with or that you're well versed in, and

it's almost like brings top of funnel.

559

: 00:27:23

The opportunities that could be best

suited for you to kind of cut out

560

: 00:27:27

maybe some of the noise because there's

going to be a lot of a lot of companies

561

: 00:27:30

and roles that really just aren't

relevant at all, or, you know, would

562

: 00:27:33

never be in your short list, but they

still are going to be there and you're

563

: 00:27:36

going to have to just sift through it.

564

: 00:27:38

Um, so yeah,

565

: 00:27:40

Mike Gruen: I, yeah, I was just thinking

like the opposite is also like, so as

566

: 00:27:43

someone I worked at a company, we had

a lot, it was, um, founded by veterans.

567

: 00:27:48

I loved working there.

568

: 00:27:49

I know the benefit of

getting veterans out.

569

: 00:27:52

And 1 of the challenges I've

had is I'm not a veteran.

570

: 00:27:55

It's hard for me to, to do that

mapping of like, this is what

571

: 00:27:59

you were doing in the military.

572

: 00:28:00

And this is how it translates to like.

573

: 00:28:02

What you can do here.

574

: 00:28:03

And I'm curious, like, what, what

the experience is like, like, for as

575

: 00:28:11

the, as someone who wants to tap into

this, like, what are the options?

576

: 00:28:15

And, you know, how do I get more involved?

577

: 00:28:17

Or is it maybe doing that 2nd order thing?

578

: 00:28:20

Like, I like the idea of like, Hey, these

people, you know, You know, we have a

579

: 00:28:22

whole program and we had people intern

at our company and, you know, we've,

580

: 00:28:27

and now we can help them find a job, not

necessarily with us, but beyond our doors.

581

: 00:28:32

And I'm just curious, sort of

like, how would I, if I wanted to

582

: 00:28:35

get involved in this, like, what

would be your recommendations?

583

: 00:28:39

And I'm curious from both perspectives.

584

: 00:28:42

Cam, if you want to start,

585

: 00:28:44

Cameron Watts: yeah, yeah, I'll jump in.

586

: 00:28:45

So, uh, first and foremost, I would say

it's like understanding, like, what,

587

: 00:28:52

so even like John just said, right?

588

: 00:28:53

Like, oh, no 5, but it

doesn't matter, right?

589

: 00:28:55

It's like understanding

what it takes to get there.

590

: 00:28:57

What the, what the, you know,

credentialing the criteria is, and because

591

: 00:29:02

it just has a different nomenclature.

592

: 00:29:03

It's all done in the civilian world.

593

: 00:29:05

It's just got a different title, right?

594

: 00:29:07

It's a different, You know,

wording, different verbiage,

595

: 00:29:10

however you want to describe it.

596

: 00:29:12

Um, but like, so, so I was a team

leader in, in ranger regiment, right?

597

: 00:29:16

So like when I look at my resume on

paper for the military, it's like,

598

: 00:29:19

Oh, that's cool, I was a trigger

puller and door kicker, right?

599

: 00:29:23

But then like, what

does that mean out here?

600

: 00:29:25

Right.

601

: 00:29:25

It's like, well, you know, uh, leadership.

602

: 00:29:29

I don't know, but it's

hard to equate, right?

603

: 00:29:33

And so, so really, really like

starting to understand what those

604

: 00:29:36

soft skills and hard skills.

605

: 00:29:37

I don't like that terminology,

but, but what those are and, and,

606

: 00:29:41

you know, for example, it's like

situational awareness, right?

607

: 00:29:44

I think that a lot of us have heightened

situational awareness, gives us more

608

: 00:29:47

intuition, gives us the ability to be

more creative and understand different

609

: 00:29:50

dynamics and cross functional team.

610

: 00:29:52

But those are things that you

don't think about when you're

611

: 00:29:54

like kind of pigeonhole yourself.

612

: 00:29:56

Um, so actually having people like you

might like jump on and start to like.

613

: 00:30:00

Think through what we did to get

there is going to be more beneficial

614

: 00:30:04

than us trying to tell you or the D.

615

: 00:30:06

O.

616

: 00:30:06

D.

617

: 00:30:07

trying to tell you because

we're kind of stuck in this

618

: 00:30:10

like mantra of what we've done.

619

: 00:30:12

Right?

620

: 00:30:13

And so getting the civilians to help

us understand what those skills are

621

: 00:30:19

because we share the same skills.

622

: 00:30:20

It's just we did it in the

military for a little while.

623

: 00:30:23

Uh, you know, so, so honestly, like, Mhm.

624

: 00:30:26

You doing the research and digging

deep down in there and trying to figure

625

: 00:30:29

out how they relate to what you do

is, is probably one of the biggest,

626

: 00:30:32

most valuable, uh, ways to help.

627

: 00:30:37

Tim Winkler: Yeah, I, I was looking

at some of the data points too.

628

: 00:30:40

Uh, cam on, you guys have a, a, you know,

not to, not to, uh, continue to tout zero

629

: 00:30:48

eyes here, but I'd say it's from like

a, a poster boy of like how it's done.

630

: 00:30:52

Well, you guys have a dedicated

skill bridge landing page, right?

631

: 00:30:57

And within that.

632

: 00:30:58

Yeah, I kind of pulled the quote

from one of the co founders, right?

633

: 00:31:01

So immediately I go there.

634

: 00:31:04

I'm a transitioning service member.

635

: 00:31:05

I feel a level of connection there.

636

: 00:31:08

Uh, and I kind of understand

why the program was stood up.

637

: 00:31:12

Um, and then beyond that, there's,

there's data points immediately that kind

638

: 00:31:16

of show, um, that you rattled one off

: 2022

639

: 00:31:22

you know, into, into the program.

640

: 00:31:24

Um, And then one of the stat that jumped

off the page to me was that 87 percent of

641

: 00:31:29

the interns converted to full time hires.

642

: 00:31:32

Right.

643

: 00:31:32

Because I think that's

the other big piece here.

644

: 00:31:34

It's like, it's a great to get

the experience and it's great

645

: 00:31:37

to get the, the sampling of this

role here or this role there.

646

: 00:31:42

But the reality is the reality is

you want to kind of get it right

647

: 00:31:47

the first time if you can, right.

648

: 00:31:48

And you want to find a good fit.

649

: 00:31:50

And so, um, There's a good case study

here where, uh, you know, some of the

650

: 00:31:56

things that worked well with this 87

percent conversion stat, you know, I'd

651

: 00:32:01

love to see how it, how it compares

to, you know, some other organizations

652

: 00:32:05

that are on, uh, on the program.

653

: 00:32:08

And, and, you know, why did this, why was

it so high for you all compared to maybe.

654

: 00:32:12

Something that's lower for, uh, steel,

maybe, you know, maybe still didn't have

655

: 00:32:16

that conversion stat that you all had.

656

: 00:32:19

Um, was it because, you know, you guys are

veteran owned and you have this ability to

657

: 00:32:24

relay a little bit better or what was it?

658

: 00:32:26

You know, I think those are things

that would be interesting to dissect

659

: 00:32:30

and try to figure out how to get that

conversion rate as high as it can be.

660

: 00:32:35

Cameron Watts: So I'm so glad you brought

that up because one of the other, you

661

: 00:32:38

know, pieces of data that, that I think

is very valuable to understand that, that

662

: 00:32:41

how we do it with skill bridges, we're

looking for future employees, not interns.

663

: 00:32:47

So, so we're, we're immediately

trying to say who qualifies

664

: 00:32:50

to somebody that fits us.

665

: 00:32:52

Who, who comes in here and is

going to add value to our team

666

: 00:32:55

and who can we add value to?

667

: 00:32:57

Um, and again, you know, we're looking

at this is that, hey, the internship

668

: 00:33:02

is you to get your feet wet and then

you're going to come full time, right?

669

: 00:33:04

That's that's kind of the idea

that we have when we look at this.

670

: 00:33:08

I don't know that that's done across

the board and I don't want to talk about

671

: 00:33:11

any other organizations, but, you know,

I think that is, is being the forefront

672

: 00:33:16

of how we do candidates is thinking.

673

: 00:33:17

Are they going to be?

674

: 00:33:18

Future employees is, is amazing.

675

: 00:33:22

And I think that's how

676

: 00:33:23

Mike Gruen: internships should be.

677

: 00:33:24

And an internship should be

an extended job interview.

678

: 00:33:27

It is a, Hey, we want to

take this opportunity.

679

: 00:33:30

Like I've done internships with, in

various places for various reasons,

680

: 00:33:35

whether it's with schools or with

maybe, um, in areas that need help

681

: 00:33:40

or, you know, whatever it is, um,

but it's an extended job interview.

682

: 00:33:44

It's a, we're going to take a chance.

683

: 00:33:45

We're going to put, we're, we're willing

to take a little bit of risk here.

684

: 00:33:49

And we're offsetting, we're mitigating

that risk by it's an internship.

685

: 00:33:52

Um, but the goal here is at the end

of it, there's some defined things.

686

: 00:33:56

And like, if things go

well, it's a full time job.

687

: 00:33:59

And if things, maybe if it's not a

perfect fit, like you got some skills

688

: 00:34:03

at it, we've got some, we got something

out of it and we're more than happy

689

: 00:34:07

to help like you and your future

endeavors, and that's the way I look at

690

: 00:34:11

internships and, um, I hope that's the

way most companies look at internships.

691

: 00:34:15

I'm sure that's not the case,

but it would be my, my ideal.

692

: 00:34:19

Cameron Watts: Yeah.

693

: 00:34:20

And one more thing too, that, uh,

just to kind of piggyback on something

694

: 00:34:24

John said earlier was like, it's just

as valuable, if not more valuable

695

: 00:34:28

to learn what you don't want to do.

696

: 00:34:31

As much as it is what you do want to do.

697

: 00:34:33

And for me, it was very quickly

like, figure out what I don't want

698

: 00:34:36

to do fast, so I can get to what I

do want to do, and do it for longer.

699

: 00:34:40

Right?

700

: 00:34:41

And, uh, But the second retention rate

piece that I'll say about ZeroEyes that

701

: 00:34:45

I think is, is, You know, I'll tell us

a little bit, but it's a vibe, right?

702

: 00:34:49

Like, like our mantra, our motto

is, you know, save time, save lives.

703

: 00:34:54

You all feel it.

704

: 00:34:55

We feel it when we work there.

705

: 00:34:57

Um, you know, it's a heavy

thing that we as a country feel.

706

: 00:35:01

Um, so, so we feel the purpose

there and then kind of the vibe and

707

: 00:35:05

the culture of like, just get it

done and help the teammates, right?

708

: 00:35:09

Like that you feel it

and you're used to it.

709

: 00:35:11

So I think that really helps us get

kind of over that first bar of, uh,

710

: 00:35:16

You know, people who may want to leave.

711

: 00:35:18

Mike Gruen: Yeah.

712

: 00:35:19

And John, I'm curious from your

perspective, like when you were looking,

713

: 00:35:21

were you able to see, I don't know what,

what companies are in, you know, are on

714

: 00:35:27

scale bridge, but are you able to get

some sense of like, is there a lot of

715

: 00:35:31

companies that sort of have more of that

vibe that have that more mission driven,

716

: 00:35:33

like there's a definite, like, I loved

when I worked, um, at Red Owl where

717

: 00:35:37

there was a, it was military founded and

we had mission and we had that, like,

718

: 00:35:41

it was just like, and you can tell like

from day one when I interviewed and.

719

: 00:35:47

Like, I don't know if you can.

720

: 00:35:49

As you're going through and trying to do

the transition, are you, uh, as you're

721

: 00:35:53

looking, are you able to see any of that?

722

: 00:35:55

Or is it like just big company

after big company after big company?

723

: 00:35:57

You don't really know what the, what

the cultural vibe is going to be like.

724

: 00:36:01

John Sokol: Yeah, so when I, uh,

when I first started looking,

725

: 00:36:04

just went to that website, started

doing a bunch of just kind of.

726

: 00:36:08

You know, cold email on or

whatever you want to call it.

727

: 00:36:10

And, uh, tell you, you know, it's a lot

of toes to make a print, so to speak.

728

: 00:36:15

So there's a lot of that on there

and it's not really well defined

729

: 00:36:19

on the site that says, you know,

this is what we're looking for.

730

: 00:36:22

Is that or this?

731

: 00:36:24

It was more like, uh, it's a listing

of the companies, then you contact

732

: 00:36:27

the company, then you kind of learn

whatever the positions are that

733

: 00:36:30

are available within the company.

734

: 00:36:32

And so, but as far as like a

vibe goes, I was the same thing.

735

: 00:36:37

So not the vibe, uh,

steel is bad in any way.

736

: 00:36:40

I mean, it's a company and kind of

the cams point earlier, you know, like

737

: 00:36:44

a lot of things are very similar and

it's just, you know, military members

738

: 00:36:48

just don't understand it, right.

739

: 00:36:49

Cause it was like so many different

times people would come up to me

740

: 00:36:52

like, Oh my gosh, this must be so like

shocking for you that you're in here.

741

: 00:36:55

I'm like, well, I mean, it's

an office building with pupils.

742

: 00:36:58

I've been to one before and.

743

: 00:36:59

You know, people are using acronyms,

but it's all, it's the same.

744

: 00:37:04

You just have to learn the new

acronyms, learn the new little, you

745

: 00:37:07

know, fancy things that people say

when they're, you know, trying to end

746

: 00:37:10

conversations or whatever it is, you know?

747

: 00:37:12

So it's, I don't think the transition

from that standpoint is too bad,

748

: 00:37:16

but I was in the same boat too.

749

: 00:37:18

So the company I work at.

750

: 00:37:20

What I learned at Steele, I think,

was that I did want a little more

751

: 00:37:23

of that, like, um, I wouldn't say

military kind of vibe, but what our

752

: 00:37:29

company does, they, they like to kind

of tell it as like a ready room and a

753

: 00:37:33

ready room for if you're not familiar.

754

: 00:37:35

So, think of an aircraft carrier, think

of when there's like a bunch of people

755

: 00:37:39

in flight suits and they're all kind

of together and they're joking around.

756

: 00:37:41

You'll see it like in Top Gun, like, when

they're all in a room and they're all

757

: 00:37:44

just kind of goofing around and stuff.

758

: 00:37:46

So, something like that.

759

: 00:37:47

Where it's a little, you know, it's formal

and obviously there's a lot of risk and

760

: 00:37:50

everything else involved, but it's also

that kind of camaraderie and stuff.

761

: 00:37:53

So once I did the steel thing,

I was like, man, I actually

762

: 00:37:56

kind of do like that stuff.

763

: 00:37:58

No, it's funny because.

764

: 00:38:00

In my head, as I was about to

transition out, I was like, man,

765

: 00:38:02

I don't want to do that anymore.

766

: 00:38:04

I just want a clean break from

everything of like that nature.

767

: 00:38:07

I never want to, like, by the

way, my call sign is face.

768

: 00:38:10

I was like, if no one ever calls

me face again in my life, I was

769

: 00:38:13

like, that's totally fine with me.

770

: 00:38:14

And then all of a sudden I did the

steel thing and now I'm right back.

771

: 00:38:17

Everyone calls me face.

772

: 00:38:18

I like I'm back because

I do this Navy stuff now.

773

: 00:38:20

So still use the call sign, but,

uh, You know, and again, you, you

774

: 00:38:25

learn, I guess I do like that and I

do appreciate it and that's something

775

: 00:38:27

that I care about for my job.

776

: 00:38:29

So, you know, it all worked out.

777

: 00:38:33

I mean, sometimes you have to do

778

: 00:38:34

Mike Gruen: something else to realize

that like, and I mean, I had that

779

: 00:38:37

same, very similar experience.

780

: 00:38:38

I did a very short stint

at a very large company.

781

: 00:38:41

Was there less than 90 days and was

like, yeah, this isn't what I said.

782

: 00:38:46

This isn't what I thought it would be.

783

: 00:38:48

I don't know why I

thought I'd be happy here.

784

: 00:38:49

All my friends are like, yeah, I

didn't think you'd be happy there.

785

: 00:38:52

And, uh, very quickly transitioned

back into the world of startups.

786

: 00:38:57

Tim Winkler: I mean, just to kind of

paint the picture of, of what the.

787

: 00:39:00

The site looks like, and

I'll, and I'll rattle it off.

788

: 00:39:02

I'll put it in the show notes.

789

: 00:39:03

So folks are aware of skillbridge.

790

: 00:39:05

osd.

791

: 00:39:06

mil, M I L, but you know, as a,

as a seeker, a job seeker, there's

792

: 00:39:12

industries that you can sift

through the, the location, right?

793

: 00:39:16

So it's got, you know, all sorts

of locations in here, delivery

794

: 00:39:21

methods, basically in person online

or hybrid, the duration of training.

795

: 00:39:26

So zero to one 80 days, one

to six months, one to 30.

796

: 00:39:31

Services.

797

: 00:39:32

So, you know, you can, I guess, dial

down by air force, army, Coast Guard,

798

: 00:39:36

Marine Corps, Navy, um, and then a list

of every company, which there's 5, 000,

799

: 00:39:42

just about 5, 000 of them in here, right?

800

: 00:39:44

So this isn't like going to LinkedIn

and give me the, you know, the

801

: 00:39:49

platter of filters where I can go and

find my company size and headcount

802

: 00:39:55

and revenue and stuff like that.

803

: 00:39:56

Right.

804

: 00:39:56

So it's, it's quite vanilla from a.

805

: 00:39:59

A user experience perspective,

which is why I'd say go into

806

: 00:40:02

this with a grain of salt.

807

: 00:40:03

If you really want to kind of like take

it to the next level, what I would do

808

: 00:40:07

is pair it with a tool like LinkedIn.

809

: 00:40:10

And then between those two, you

can start to get a little bit more

810

: 00:40:13

granular of who the company is, right?

811

: 00:40:16

Cause really what you're doing is

prospecting companies and trying to

812

: 00:40:18

figure out more about them, knowing that

they're a part of the, of the program.

813

: 00:40:22

But, um, I think that's, that's probably,

you know, something I would highlight

814

: 00:40:25

that could definitely use a revamp.

815

: 00:40:28

The other piece of this, which I think.

816

: 00:40:30

You touched on it, John, and

you did probably too as Cam is.

817

: 00:40:34

You know, the, the level of counseling

that's involved with the transition

818

: 00:40:40

for service members beyond just,

you know, Hey, here's skill bridge.

819

: 00:40:44

It's available to you.

820

: 00:40:45

Here's the site here,

fill this one pager out.

821

: 00:40:47

Um, you know, is there room for

improvement in that part where

822

: 00:40:52

it's more of like, almost like one

on one counseling, the same way I

823

: 00:40:55

would expect a student graduating

from a university, which I've also

824

: 00:40:59

heard quite poor things about, you

know, in terms of really, truly.

825

: 00:41:03

Being involved as a, as a transition,

as a bridge to a career, um, is, are

826

: 00:41:09

those areas that you would see as,

as areas for improvement or, uh, I,

827

: 00:41:13

I don't know what the current lay

of the land is, but just curious.

828

: 00:41:17

John Sokol: Yeah.

829

: 00:41:18

I mean, from my perspective,

yeah, they definitely, you know,

830

: 00:41:20

could do a better job of that.

831

: 00:41:21

The funny thing I always

think though, is that.

832

: 00:41:25

You know, the military, they have

a ton of great programs and there's

833

: 00:41:28

a ton of these things out there

and there's counseling services and

834

: 00:41:31

there's all these different things

and they're all available to everyone.

835

: 00:41:35

It's just funny that you

never hear about them.

836

: 00:41:37

And so, you know, to me, especially, you

know, kind of looking back and thinking

837

: 00:41:42

like, boy, wouldn't it be nice if you

kind of use that to get people to join

838

: 00:41:45

the military is like, we can also help you

when you transition out of the military.

839

: 00:41:49

It could be one of those selling

points to actually get more, you know,

840

: 00:41:52

during especially times, I guess, when

recruiting is getting a little soft.

841

: 00:41:55

That, you know, that we can

help you on the back end too.

842

: 00:41:58

And they never do that.

843

: 00:41:59

They never mentioned it.

844

: 00:42:00

It's like this, you know, then you learn

that there's all these organizations.

845

: 00:42:03

And plus, I guess, uh, you know,

there is organizations like there's

846

: 00:42:07

one called hiring our heroes, or

I believe it's hiring our heroes.

847

: 00:42:11

I believe is the name of it.

848

: 00:42:12

And it's a, um, it basically kind of.

849

: 00:42:15

Is 1, it helps you to filter out, figure

out what you want to do, get your resume

850

: 00:42:18

together, all that kind of stuff, then

take it down to, uh, you know, maybe

851

: 00:42:22

get you some job opportunities with.

852

: 00:42:24

Uh, scale bridge, or just I think they can

do just regular, you know, get you a job.

853

: 00:42:29

So, those places exist again, it's

just it's hard to find them and it's.

854

: 00:42:33

It's really kind of word of

mouth kind of stuff, which thinks

855

: 00:42:36

that, you know, there's not a

formalized process or something.

856

: 00:42:40

Mike Gruen: I chuckled a little bit

because, uh, when I, before the episode,

857

: 00:42:42

I was doing a search and, uh, Hire Our

Heroes has better SEO than, uh, the

858

: 00:42:46

DoD, because, uh, they come up first.

859

: 00:42:48

Uh, when, if you, if you search

for, uh, SkillBridge, somebody's

860

: 00:42:54

doing something right over there.

861

: 00:42:57

Tim Winkler: Yeah, we did.

862

: 00:42:57

We did an episode.

863

: 00:43:00

Go ahead, Cam.

864

: 00:43:02

Cameron Watts: So I was just

gonna say, like, John hit

865

: 00:43:04

the nail on the head, right?

866

: 00:43:04

There's a ton of stuff that the

military does do that's out there,

867

: 00:43:08

but you don't hear about it.

868

: 00:43:10

And then when you go look for it, like,

at least when I got out, it was kind

869

: 00:43:13

of hard to figure out what to do next.

870

: 00:43:14

You can be like, oh,

cool, this is available.

871

: 00:43:17

But what do I do?

872

: 00:43:18

And, uh, and, and that got really hard.

873

: 00:43:20

So they're giving that like, and then

pairing with like a LinkedIn and skill

874

: 00:43:24

bridge is a hundred percent the way to go.

875

: 00:43:26

So what skill bridge didn't

exist when I got out.

876

: 00:43:28

And so I'm like, my wife made

me a LinkedIn with my DD two 14.

877

: 00:43:32

I was like, all right, good luck, Tim.

878

: 00:43:34

And like, I was going back to school.

879

: 00:43:36

So the first thing I did was like, start

reaching out to people that I, that had

880

: 00:43:40

careers that were similar to mine in

industries that I thought were appealing.

881

: 00:43:44

And I would just like hit them up on

LinkedIn and be like, Hey, can we get

882

: 00:43:47

coffee or do you have 20 minutes to chat?

883

: 00:43:50

And that helped me start to like, kind

of maneuver a little bit through all

884

: 00:43:55

the stuff that was coming and, uh,

and start to kind of hone in on some

885

: 00:44:00

certain areas with, with, with that.

886

: 00:44:02

But I would probably.

887

: 00:44:04

Interview this, uh, the job placer

rather than, you know, be waiting to

888

: 00:44:10

be interviewed as a seeker looking.

889

: 00:44:11

What I know now is I would get on skill,

brave, say, Oh, this company looks cool.

890

: 00:44:15

And then I'd hit them up and be like, Hey,

tell me about it before applying to them.

891

: 00:44:21

Right.

892

: 00:44:21

We are military is, is such a a,

a big group of, of, uh, that's

893

: 00:44:28

currently coming out right now too.

894

: 00:44:30

And the talent that I have in this digital

transformation era is, is tremendous.

895

: 00:44:34

Um, you know, it's just different.

896

: 00:44:38

And so being able to, to understand

that it's just navigating different

897

: 00:44:41

waters, but it's the same thing.

898

: 00:44:44

It's there.

899

: 00:44:45

You, you hold, hold your

destiny in your hand, man.

900

: 00:44:49

You reach out to those companies

and you're going to get picked up.

901

: 00:44:54

Tim Winkler: Yeah, it's, it's

a, uh, I think what's exciting

902

: 00:44:58

to me is that there's a ton of

opportunity to expand on the program.

903

: 00:45:04

Um, you know, on, on, on our community

platform here on the, on the podcast

904

: 00:45:08

as well, you know, we do a lot of

episodes around, you know, this,

905

: 00:45:12

this transformation of commercial

technology, you know, married to,

906

: 00:45:17

you know, government tech, right.

907

: 00:45:19

And, and, uh, a bigger push for that, how

it's, how it's being done, how it's trying

908

: 00:45:23

to be expedited, um, where, you know, in

years past, maybe it was always looked

909

: 00:45:29

at as, you know, any sort of opportunity.

910

: 00:45:33

That's government related is archaic.

911

: 00:45:35

And I don't want a part of that.

912

: 00:45:37

I think that's changed that that

narrative is changing as well

913

: 00:45:40

as the ability to, to break in.

914

: 00:45:43

So that kind of bleeds into this

conversation of, uh, you know, skill

915

: 00:45:48

bridge with, you know, there's so many

skill sets that, um, have this ability to

916

: 00:45:53

translate over, you know, Uh, I would say

maybe even more so in the last 10 years

917

: 00:45:58

than they have, uh, ever before, just

given the fact that industry is changing

918

: 00:46:03

and technology is, is transforming,

uh, all these other areas, right?

919

: 00:46:07

So, so some of these skill sets,

when we say, uh, work for a mission

920

: 00:46:12

driven company, right, that's.

921

: 00:46:14

That's something that, you know, means

something very specific to a, uh, a

922

: 00:46:17

military service member versus maybe just

working for a company that's got this

923

: 00:46:21

vision, um, and I think that's what kind

of stuck with me on that quote from the,

924

: 00:46:27

from the co founder at Zero Eyes is that,

you know, that's one of the things that

925

: 00:46:31

these, you know, uh, service members bring

to the table is like this mission focus

926

: 00:46:35

and, you know, How well that translates

to, you know, organizations that are,

927

: 00:46:39

that are building technologies that

are, you know, mission focused as well.

928

: 00:46:43

Um, just a random note too.

929

: 00:46:45

I was podcast this morning that was.

930

: 00:46:48

Almost dialing in on a little bit of

this theme of what we're talking about.

931

: 00:46:52

Uh, but it was more focused on

universities and universities

932

: 00:46:56

are similarly, uh, kind of

having to revisit their model.

933

: 00:47:01

Uh, because the reality is, um, I

think the, the percentage of students

934

: 00:47:08

that actually pursue a career.

935

: 00:47:10

And the degree that they

pursue is, is, is quite low.

936

: 00:47:13

Um, and so you spend all this

time in an educational program,

937

: 00:47:16

you spend all this money towards

something that you don't even really

938

: 00:47:19

pursue, you do something different.

939

: 00:47:21

So, uh, I think they, they called out

Northeastern university as one of these

940

: 00:47:26

Uh, universities that provide more of this

co op slash experiential learning program

941

: 00:47:32

throughout the course of university

where you're, yeah, you're, you're

942

: 00:47:36

attending, um, you know, your courses,

but they're also baking in actual,

943

: 00:47:41

you know, real life world experiences

where you're in a corporate setting.

944

: 00:47:45

I think there's a lot of room for that,

not just in, you know, universities,

945

: 00:47:48

but you know, how that could also

be translated to folks that are, you

946

: 00:47:51

know, in the military or active duty.

947

: 00:47:54

But maybe wanting to also step

foot, you know, one day every month

948

: 00:47:59

or so into a, a corporate setting

to kind of get a feel for that.

949

: 00:48:02

So it's maybe not as much of a culture

shock as it might be, you know,

950

: 00:48:06

at the end of your, your service,

um, you know, just jumping in.

951

: 00:48:10

But, um, all that said, I guess that's,

we kind of put a bow on it at that point,

952

: 00:48:16

unless there's anything else that you

want, you guys wanted to add before

953

: 00:48:19

we close out with our final segment.

954

: 00:48:25

I'm

955

: 00:48:25

Cameron Watts: good.

956

: 00:48:26

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

957

: 00:48:28

Cool.

958

: 00:48:29

All right.

959

: 00:48:29

Well, let's transition.

960

: 00:48:30

Then, um, we're going to, we're going

to jump into this, uh, last segment

961

: 00:48:33

called the five second scramble.

962

: 00:48:35

Uh, Mike and I are going to ask

each of you a series of questions.

963

: 00:48:38

Give us a, try to give us your response

within five seconds, a little bit of

964

: 00:48:41

rapid fire Q and a some business, some

fun, uh, Mike, why don't you lead us

965

: 00:48:46

off with John and then I'll get to cam.

966

: 00:48:49

Mike Gruen: Sounds good.

967

: 00:48:50

And cam don't bother taking too

many notes because they're going

968

: 00:48:52

to be a different set of questions.

969

: 00:48:55

There'll be some overlap,

but not too much.

970

: 00:48:56

Anyway, um, so yeah, so

John, uh, here we go.

971

: 00:49:00

Uh, explain to circle to me

like I was a five year old,

972

: 00:49:05

John Sokol: uh, two circle.

973

: 00:49:07

It's the bylines, basically tactical,

technical, what we do think of somebody

974

: 00:49:12

who operates a piece of equipment in

our case, an airplane, we are, our goal.

975

: 00:49:18

And our job is basically to make that

person the best person they can be.

976

: 00:49:22

And that could be through training.

977

: 00:49:23

That could be through software.

978

: 00:49:25

That could be through.

979

: 00:49:26

Uh, you know, updated equipment, anything

like that, and we will talk with, you

980

: 00:49:32

know, the folks that can acquire that,

you know, either training equipment.

981

: 00:49:37

Software, whatever it is, and get it

into the hands of the actual operators.

982

: 00:49:40

So that's what we do.

983

: 00:49:41

And, uh, think of it just, uh, it's.

984

: 00:49:44

I almost think it's easier

to use this kind of analogy.

985

: 00:49:47

There's two ways you can basically kind

of train to use an airplane, right?

986

: 00:49:50

I can either train to fix an airplane

or train to operate an airplane.

987

: 00:49:54

We don't do much on the

training to fix airplanes.

988

: 00:49:56

We do more of the operating the airplanes.

989

: 00:49:58

So that's our focus is on that side

and making them the most kind of

990

: 00:50:02

lethal they can be in an airplane.

991

: 00:50:06

Mike Gruen: Uh, what's your

favorite company value?

992

: 00:50:11

John Sokol: Ours

993

: 00:50:12

Mike Gruen: for two circles.

994

: 00:50:12

Yeah.

995

: 00:50:13

Yeah.

996

: 00:50:13

Yeah.

997

: 00:50:15

John Sokol: Uh, integrity.

998

: 00:50:18

Mike Gruen: It's a good one.

999

: 00:50:20

Uh, it came up actually recently on

a different context, uh, where that

: 1000

00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:27,120

it's like the number one quality

you look for in a new hire, like

: 1001

00:50:27,450 --> 00:50:28,840

during interviews is integrity.

: 1002

00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:31,280

And yet nobody really

asked that specifically.

: 1003

00:50:31,330 --> 00:50:32,310

So it's a, it's a great one.

: 1004

00:50:32,750 --> 00:50:35,210

Um, it's hard to sort of get

at during an interview process.

: 1005

00:50:35,710 --> 00:50:38,300

Um, but it's something that

most hiring managers are looking

: 1006

00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:39,080

for in the back of their head.

: 1007

00:50:39,620 --> 00:50:46,240

Um, so what type of, um, now

that you nailed it, um, just

: 1008

00:50:46,240 --> 00:50:47,240

give me some breathing room too.

: 1009

00:50:47,770 --> 00:50:50,420

Um, what's the, what's the best piece

of advice you've ever been given?

: 1010

00:50:53,270 --> 00:50:54,870

That's going to take

more than five seconds.

: 1011

00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:55,600

John Sokol: Uh,

: 1012

00:50:57,730 --> 00:50:58,300

best piece of

: 1013

00:50:58,300 --> 00:50:59,729

Mike Gruen: advice,

: 1014

00:50:59,910 --> 00:51:03,990

John Sokol: honestly, uh,

enjoy what you do, as long as

: 1015

00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:05,010

you're enjoying what you do.

: 1016

00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:09,290

And I think for me, enjoying what

I do doesn't necessarily have to

: 1017

00:51:09,290 --> 00:51:13,340

correspond to the exact like project

where I'm working on, but if you're

: 1018

00:51:13,340 --> 00:51:17,070

around good people, you're You know,

enjoying spending time with them.

: 1019

00:51:17,220 --> 00:51:18,610

You're doing something together.

: 1020

00:51:18,670 --> 00:51:20,390

Everyone's kind of positive to me.

: 1021

00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:22,920

That's, you know, that's

enjoying what I do.

: 1022

00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:24,870

Mike Gruen: Awesome.

: 1023

00:51:25,630 --> 00:51:27,570

Uh, what type of person

thrives at two circle?

: 1024

00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,130

John Sokol: Well, mostly

I retired naval aviators.

: 1025

00:51:32,180 --> 00:51:33,110

That's probably your big one.

: 1026

00:51:33,250 --> 00:51:34,270

So that's going to be tricky.

: 1027

00:51:34,420 --> 00:51:35,460

That's a barrier to entry.

: 1028

00:51:35,870 --> 00:51:41,310

That's a, uh, honestly what it is,

uh, it's their big thing is being a,

: 1029

00:51:41,460 --> 00:51:44,480

they call it a Spartan, but it's, uh,

we're all kind of self sufficient with

: 1030

00:51:44,690 --> 00:51:46,260

most, almost everyone works remote.

: 1031

00:51:46,350 --> 00:51:47,400

So their big thing is.

: 1032

00:51:48,265 --> 00:51:53,645

You know, they hire a lot of more senior

people and with more senior people becomes

: 1033

00:51:53,745 --> 00:51:56,025

kind of the idea, especially when you're

in the military, that people are going

: 1034

00:51:56,025 --> 00:51:57,675

to kind of do a lot of stuff for you.

: 1035

00:51:57,675 --> 00:52:00,595

Like, hey, I need to go

fly to California for work.

: 1036

00:52:00,945 --> 00:52:03,385

And there's a person who does that

for me, and it's like, now, no, there

: 1037

00:52:03,385 --> 00:52:04,815

isn't a person who does that for you.

: 1038

00:52:05,105 --> 00:52:08,255

So, I know they're, they're always real

concern when they get, uh, you know,

: 1039

00:52:08,255 --> 00:52:10,535

when there's interviews and stuff like

that of like, hey, are you going to be

: 1040

00:52:10,535 --> 00:52:14,535

able to, you know, kind of thrive on

your own without like a support staff.

: 1041

00:52:14,855 --> 00:52:16,915

So, that, uh, kind of just.

: 1042

00:52:17,595 --> 00:52:21,035

Mindset of getting stuff done

yourself is pretty important to,

: 1043

00:52:23,335 --> 00:52:25,715

Mike Gruen: um, in one word or

two, what's the biggest challenge

: 1044

00:52:25,715 --> 00:52:26,785

your company's facing right now?

: 1045

00:52:30,205 --> 00:52:34,075

John Sokol: Expansion, uh, purposeful

expansion, I guess would probably be

: 1046

00:52:34,435 --> 00:52:38,405

even more to the point in that, uh,

and this kind of goes back to the

: 1047

00:52:38,405 --> 00:52:42,075

ready room, uh, kind of mentality

that what they have where, and again,

: 1048

00:52:42,085 --> 00:52:46,705

maybe to put another piece of that

ready room thing is in a ready room.

: 1049

00:52:46,825 --> 00:52:47,815

It's pretty loose.

: 1050

00:52:48,105 --> 00:52:49,425

Everyone kind of jokes around.

: 1051

00:52:49,425 --> 00:52:50,035

It's a beauty.

: 1052

00:52:50,835 --> 00:52:54,685

Of kind of thick skin, like a lot of

military kind of organizations, right?

: 1053

00:52:54,685 --> 00:52:59,675

There's a lot of just, you know, there's

just a lot of stuff going on as far

: 1054

00:52:59,675 --> 00:53:03,655

as, you know, people calling you out,

you know, hey, you did good here.

: 1055

00:53:03,655 --> 00:53:04,565

You didn't do good there.

: 1056

00:53:04,565 --> 00:53:06,575

You just have to you develop

a thick skin for that.

: 1057

00:53:06,645 --> 00:53:10,265

So, um, kind of having

that culture, right?

: 1058

00:53:10,545 --> 00:53:13,185

But then once you start expanding

more and more and you keep that

: 1059

00:53:13,185 --> 00:53:16,585

culture the same, and that's been

it's truly is a struggle and it's.

: 1060

00:53:16,585 --> 00:53:16,849

Yeah.

: 1061

00:53:17,620 --> 00:53:19,580

You know, and they go back and

forth and people go back and

: 1062

00:53:19,580 --> 00:53:20,570

forth because you talk about it.

: 1063

00:53:20,570 --> 00:53:24,520

It's like, okay, well, if you expand at

some point, our biggest problem, right?

: 1064

00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:29,680

In a company, when I jokingly say,

you know, you hire people to basically

: 1065

00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,300

serve 20 years as naval aviators.

: 1066

00:53:31,540 --> 00:53:33,730

We, that pool of human

beings is just small.

: 1067

00:53:34,090 --> 00:53:36,180

There's just not a lot

of talent out there.

: 1068

00:53:36,300 --> 00:53:39,350

Once you kind of go past those

walls of that's our talent pool.

: 1069

00:53:40,125 --> 00:53:41,355

Now you're bringing in other people.

: 1070

00:53:41,355 --> 00:53:44,245

They don't maybe know that culture and

then how do you kind of maintain it?

: 1071

00:53:44,375 --> 00:53:47,065

So that's, uh, yeah,

that's what I would say.

: 1072

00:53:47,065 --> 00:53:48,675

The biggest obstacle.

: 1073

00:53:48,675 --> 00:53:54,485

Mike Gruen: Uh, I appreciate, um,

what was your dream job as a kid?

: 1074

00:53:58,085 --> 00:54:00,265

John Sokol: Uh, first dream

job would be garbageman.

: 1075

00:54:01,685 --> 00:54:05,755

So that, uh, you know, it's

pretty, uh, pretty easy.

: 1076

00:54:05,755 --> 00:54:09,465

I, uh, you know, just watch them

and actually, uh, no biggie here.

: 1077

00:54:09,465 --> 00:54:12,385

Don't like to toot my own horn, but

around, uh, it's probably like four

: 1078

00:54:12,395 --> 00:54:15,365

or five actually got to pull the lever

down that smashes the back of the.

: 1079

00:54:15,930 --> 00:54:17,030

You know, that's pretty cool.

: 1080

00:54:17,570 --> 00:54:18,860

Into the actual thing.

: 1081

00:54:19,070 --> 00:54:20,040

Yeah, it was pretty cool.

: 1082

00:54:20,060 --> 00:54:21,450

And so that's cool.

: 1083

00:54:21,450 --> 00:54:23,240

I took my kids to a truck

: 1084

00:54:23,240 --> 00:54:24,420

Mike Gruen: touch where

they got to do that.

: 1085

00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:25,150

It was awesome.

: 1086

00:54:25,280 --> 00:54:26,120

I really loved it.

: 1087

00:54:26,670 --> 00:54:32,370

Um, uh, what's the largest land animal you

think you could take in a street fight?

: 1088

00:54:32,460 --> 00:54:34,930

No weapons, just you

and their land animal.

: 1089

00:54:36,490 --> 00:54:37,540

Being a land animal,

: 1090

00:54:37,660 --> 00:54:38,110

Cameron Watts: okay.

: 1091

00:54:38,270 --> 00:54:40,720

Mike Gruen: Yeah, because people would

say whale and that doesn't count.

: 1092

00:54:40,750 --> 00:54:42,870

Like, I'm talking like something

that you could, you know,

: 1093

00:54:42,870 --> 00:54:44,990

that would fight on, on land.

: 1094

00:54:45,010 --> 00:54:45,090

I

: 1095

00:54:45,090 --> 00:54:48,860

John Sokol: mean, I guess, uh,

like I'd have to, uh, call that

: 1096

00:54:48,860 --> 00:54:51,902

for, are they saying they could

take a whale, like, in a fight?

: 1097

00:54:51,902 --> 00:54:54,070

Well, if it's on land,

it'll just die, right?

: 1098

00:54:54,070 --> 00:54:56,649

I mean No, you're saying, no, I

just have to wait on the whale.

: 1099

00:54:56,650 --> 00:54:58,100

I got it, I have to wait the whale out.

: 1100

00:54:58,990 --> 00:54:59,240

Got it.

: 1101

00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,410

I guess that goes vice versa,

if you take a, you know, lion

: 1102

00:55:02,410 --> 00:55:03,240

in the water or something.

: 1103

00:55:03,300 --> 00:55:08,530

Uh, I don't think I've taken

a I mean, I'm, I don't think I

: 1104

00:55:08,530 --> 00:55:09,620

can go any bigger than a dog.

: 1105

00:55:09,620 --> 00:55:09,850

Right.

: 1106

00:55:09,890 --> 00:55:11,420

And probably a domesticated dog at that.

: 1107

00:55:11,460 --> 00:55:12,180

Like, not like a lot.

: 1108

00:55:15,430 --> 00:55:16,030

Mike Gruen: Sounds good.

: 1109

00:55:16,370 --> 00:55:20,180

Um, what's something you hate

to do, but are really good at,

: 1110

00:55:24,110 --> 00:55:28,120

John Sokol: uh, I'm trying to

think of stuff around my house

: 1111

00:55:28,190 --> 00:55:29,600

that my wife's always making me do.

: 1112

00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,370

Um, sure.

: 1113

00:55:31,370 --> 00:55:32,500

There's a lot of those.

: 1114

00:55:32,700 --> 00:55:33,550

I'll tell you what painting.

: 1115

00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:35,910

I hate painting, but

: 1116

00:55:36,170 --> 00:55:40,900

Mike Gruen: I'm good at, uh, what's

a charity or corporate philanthropy

: 1117

00:55:40,900 --> 00:55:41,750

that's near and dear to you.

: 1118

00:55:43,070 --> 00:55:45,760

John Sokol: Uh, there's a

thing called Fisher house.

: 1119

00:55:46,010 --> 00:55:49,980

So with just think of, you know, around

McDonald houses for hospitals where

: 1120

00:55:50,020 --> 00:55:53,800

families can stay there, you know, their

child or whatever's in the hospital.

: 1121

00:55:53,980 --> 00:55:56,910

So, Fisher house basically does the

same thing, but for VA hospitals.

: 1122

00:55:57,290 --> 00:56:00,480

So, um, it's just an

incredible organization.

: 1123

00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:01,010

So.

: 1124

00:56:01,460 --> 00:56:05,820

They haven't, they haven't near a lot of,

like, the bigger VA hospitals and it's.

: 1125

00:56:06,430 --> 00:56:10,750

Uh, my wife, her father,

he was a Vietnam vet.

: 1126

00:56:11,865 --> 00:56:15,205

A bunch of stuff, but, uh, he was

in the hospital for quite a while.

: 1127

00:56:15,535 --> 00:56:19,525

And my wife and my mother in law

and my daughter, actually, when she

: 1128

00:56:19,525 --> 00:56:21,415

was born, stayed there off and on.

: 1129

00:56:21,415 --> 00:56:22,895

It was in like I said, I'm in Norfolk.

: 1130

00:56:23,365 --> 00:56:26,455

That was Richmond, which is about an

hour and a half or so drive from here.

: 1131

00:56:26,735 --> 00:56:27,815

And they would stay there and it's.

: 1132

00:56:28,395 --> 00:56:28,945

Just phenomenal.

: 1133

00:56:28,945 --> 00:56:31,055

I mean, the place itself,

actually, it's a really nice house.

: 1134

00:56:31,575 --> 00:56:35,895

They, uh, you know, they provide

everything almost for you.

: 1135

00:56:35,895 --> 00:56:38,775

There's other folks there kind

of support staff kind of thing.

: 1136

00:56:38,775 --> 00:56:40,055

It's, it's incredible.

: 1137

00:56:40,095 --> 00:56:43,935

Uh, and as a charity, it's like one of

those ones with super low admin fees

: 1138

00:56:43,965 --> 00:56:46,505

and all that kind of stuff, you know,

they don't take anything off tops,

: 1139

00:56:46,645 --> 00:56:47,955

tons of donations, stuff like that.

: 1140

00:56:47,985 --> 00:56:50,075

So just a really, really

great organization.

: 1141

00:56:51,555 --> 00:56:51,855

Mike Gruen: Right.

: 1142

00:56:52,565 --> 00:56:55,545

Um, and last one, uh, what's a

movie you can rewatch again and

: 1143

00:56:55,545 --> 00:56:56,605

again, and never get sick of?

: 1144

00:56:59,220 --> 00:57:03,100

John Sokol: I mean, there's a bunch,

I'm trying to think of the last one.

: 1145

00:57:03,100 --> 00:57:07,080

I try to convince my daughter's,

uh, 13, she'll be 14 next month.

: 1146

00:57:07,140 --> 00:57:10,010

So I've been trying to get her to watch

a lot of good movies and by good movies,

: 1147

00:57:10,020 --> 00:57:12,020

you know, movies that I like, obviously.

: 1148

00:57:12,450 --> 00:57:16,670

Uh, I can watch, I can watch

you land her over and over.

: 1149

00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:21,930

And, uh, I can also tell you

that she's quasi hates it.

: 1150

00:57:22,110 --> 00:57:25,550

I wouldn't say she totally hated it,

but, uh, she pretty much hates it.

: 1151

00:57:25,610 --> 00:57:25,890

And.

: 1152

00:57:26,165 --> 00:57:27,165

You know, that's one of those ways.

: 1153

00:57:27,165 --> 00:57:28,895

And then that's the most

disappointing thing, right?

: 1154

00:57:28,895 --> 00:57:31,575

Like you sit there with your daughter

and like, I look over and I have a

: 1155

00:57:31,575 --> 00:57:34,095

huge smile on my face and she's just

like flipping through her cell phone.

: 1156

00:57:34,095 --> 00:57:40,075

I'm like, Oh, well, this is like, you've

dashed all my hopes for, you know, for

: 1157

00:57:40,075 --> 00:57:41,465

you to have an awesome sense of humor.

: 1158

00:57:42,045 --> 00:57:43,265

So, yeah,

: 1159

00:57:45,535 --> 00:57:45,915

Mike Gruen: awesome.

: 1160

00:57:45,915 --> 00:57:46,055

Well,

: 1161

00:57:46,055 --> 00:57:46,485

Tim Winkler: well done.

: 1162

00:57:46,505 --> 00:57:46,915

Thank you.

: 1163

00:57:49,675 --> 00:57:49,895

Awesome.

: 1164

00:57:49,895 --> 00:57:50,215

Yeah.

: 1165

00:57:50,295 --> 00:57:51,535

Love Zoolander.

: 1166

00:57:51,855 --> 00:57:52,815

Uh, Cam, you ready?

: 1167

00:57:55,265 --> 00:57:55,755

All right.

: 1168

00:57:55,915 --> 00:57:59,055

Uh, describe zero eyes to me

as if I were a five year old.

: 1169

00:58:00,570 --> 00:58:05,500

Cameron Watts: A weapons detection

company that plans to save lives by

: 1170

00:58:05,570 --> 00:58:08,070

saving time for first responders.

: 1171

00:58:09,490 --> 00:58:11,880

Tim Winkler: How would you

describe the culture at Zero Eyes?

: 1172

00:58:13,220 --> 00:58:13,580

D.

: 1173

00:58:13,580 --> 00:58:13,640

V.

: 1174

00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:13,960

I.

: 1175

00:58:16,030 --> 00:58:18,860

What kind of technologist

thrives at Zero Eyes?

: 1176

00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:24,320

Cameron Watts: Curious, um,

constantly curious, uh, go getter.

: 1177

00:58:24,380 --> 00:58:28,520

You got to be able to go after, uh,

things and, and take initiative,

: 1178

00:58:28,610 --> 00:58:30,020

do it and, and stay curious.

: 1179

00:58:30,090 --> 00:58:32,620

If you think you've got to figure

it out, you're, you're way behind.

: 1180

00:58:34,120 --> 00:58:36,480

Tim Winkler: What kind of tech

roles are you all hiring for?

: 1181

00:58:37,420 --> 00:58:41,340

Cameron Watts: Uh, engineering,

product, project management,

: 1182

00:58:41,520 --> 00:58:43,490

install team across the board.

: 1183

00:58:45,510 --> 00:58:49,710

Tim Winkler: I put it in your investor

hat on, uh, what's one of the most

: 1184

00:58:49,790 --> 00:58:53,810

valuable pieces of advice that you

would give to a founder that's looking

: 1185

00:58:53,810 --> 00:58:56,974

to start a business in: 2024

: 1186

00:58:58,115 --> 00:59:02,015

Cameron Watts: Always go into the room

thinking about what you don't know,

: 1187

00:59:02,335 --> 00:59:04,105

instead of thinking about what you do.

: 1188

00:59:06,585 --> 00:59:08,335

What's your favorite app on your phone?

: 1189

00:59:09,815 --> 00:59:12,945

Oh, uh, currently it's the Tridot app.

: 1190

00:59:13,035 --> 00:59:14,925

It's a workout program.

: 1191

00:59:14,925 --> 00:59:19,225

Cause I'm doing an Ironman in October,

but other than that, I would say

: 1192

00:59:19,235 --> 00:59:24,355

either the Libby app, uh, which is

the library, uh, app that you can

: 1193

00:59:24,355 --> 00:59:25,605

put audio books on or podcasts.

: 1194

00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,770

Tim Winkler: What's a charity or corporate

philanthropy that's near and dear to you?

: 1195

00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:32,980

Uh,

: 1196

00:59:32,990 --> 00:59:33,190

Cameron Watts: Bean

: 1197

00:59:33,230 --> 00:59:33,620

Tim Winkler: Can,

: 1198

00:59:33,750 --> 00:59:35,090

Cameron Watts: uh, for bladder cancer.

: 1199

00:59:35,390 --> 00:59:39,190

Um, my wife is a, is a multiple

time bladder cancer survivor.

: 1200

00:59:39,190 --> 00:59:40,590

So, uh, Bean Can.

: 1201

00:59:42,410 --> 00:59:42,650

Tim Winkler: Cool.

: 1202

00:59:42,710 --> 00:59:45,340

And we'll put both of those

in, uh, in the show notes to

: 1203

00:59:45,430 --> 00:59:46,660

raise some additional awareness.

: 1204

00:59:47,170 --> 00:59:51,370

Um, If you could have dinner

with any celebrity, past or

: 1205

00:59:51,370 --> 00:59:52,600

present, who would it be with?

: 1206

00:59:55,300 --> 00:59:57,140

Cameron Watts: Ooh, Larry David.

: 1207

00:59:59,910 --> 01:00:00,960

Tim Winkler: Big Seinfeld guy?

: 1208

01:00:02,030 --> 01:00:03,630

Cameron Watts: Yes, I am an anchor.

: 1209

01:00:04,605 --> 01:00:04,875

Tim Winkler: Yeah.

: 1210

01:00:05,055 --> 01:00:05,535

And curve.

: 1211

01:00:06,405 --> 01:00:09,945

What is the worst fashion trend

that you've ever followed?

: 1212

01:00:13,265 --> 01:00:14,495

Socks with slides,

: 1213

01:00:16,980 --> 01:00:19,925

. That's, that's social suicide, man.

: 1214

01:00:20,465 --> 01:00:20,765

Cameron Watts: Yeah.

: 1215

01:00:20,855 --> 01:00:21,240

Tim Winkler: Um, I,

: 1216

01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:23,995

Cameron Watts: I, I work remote,

so I get away with it a lot more

: 1217

01:00:23,995 --> 01:00:26,185

than I, I I still do it frequently.

: 1218

01:00:26,335 --> 01:00:26,605

Right.

: 1219

01:00:26,605 --> 01:00:27,267

It, it's, are you, are you

: 1220

01:00:27,272 --> 01:00:30,595

Tim Winkler: a crock guy or are you just

through slides like, uh, Adidas sliders.

: 1221

01:00:31,660 --> 01:00:34,110

Cameron Watts: Um, I, I have

tried to go away with the slides,

: 1222

01:00:34,110 --> 01:00:35,300

but it's just so convenient.

: 1223

01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:36,900

And, uh, you know,

: 1224

01:00:37,020 --> 01:00:37,480

Tim Winkler: um,

: 1225

01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:41,770

last, last one.

: 1226

01:00:41,770 --> 01:00:46,130

What is one thing that's on your bucket

list that you haven't checked off yet?

: 1227

01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:56,790

Cameron Watts: Uh, so I want to do the U

S open the Ryder cup and, uh, the open,

: 1228

01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,370

but I have done the masters and the PGA.

: 1229

01:00:59,790 --> 01:01:01,670

Um, so I want, I want to

round out in the player.

: 1230

01:01:01,670 --> 01:01:07,200

So I want to round out the four majors

plus the writer and, uh, I want to do them

: 1231

01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:09,350

all at, at, at, uh, historic courses too.

: 1232

01:01:09,350 --> 01:01:10,856

So that's awesome.

: 1233

01:01:10,856 --> 01:01:12,620

Well, a little

: 1234

01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:14,450

Tim Winkler: humble brag

there with the masters.

: 1235

01:01:14,460 --> 01:01:16,220

I know that's like

everybody's bucket list.

: 1236

01:01:16,250 --> 01:01:17,150

That's a golf band.

: 1237

01:01:17,150 --> 01:01:17,500

So

: 1238

01:01:17,945 --> 01:01:21,215

Cameron Watts: Yeah, it is something

that everybody needs to do too.

: 1239

01:01:21,215 --> 01:01:23,045

It is so different than MTV.

: 1240

01:01:23,845 --> 01:01:24,315

Tim Winkler: Awesome.

: 1241

01:01:25,045 --> 01:01:25,345

All right.

: 1242

01:01:25,345 --> 01:01:26,015

Well, that's a wrap.

: 1243

01:01:26,015 --> 01:01:30,415

I wanted to thank you guys for a great

discussion, uh, and your insights.

: 1244

01:01:30,445 --> 01:01:33,955

Uh, I think that's just all super

valuable to the next wave of

: 1245

01:01:33,955 --> 01:01:37,805

service members that are going to be

transitioning into, into civilian world.

: 1246

01:01:38,615 --> 01:01:40,305

Um, to our listeners.

: 1247

01:01:40,315 --> 01:01:41,355

Thanks for tuning in.

: 1248

01:01:41,435 --> 01:01:46,235

Uh, I hope today's episode inspires you to

think more about how you might be able to

: 1249

01:01:46,235 --> 01:01:48,245

hire a service member for your business.

: 1250

01:01:48,525 --> 01:01:51,855

Uh, and, uh, thank you both

for joining us on the pod.

: 1251

01:01:54,065 --> 01:01:54,485

Cameron Watts: Absolutely.

: 1252

01:01:54,495 --> 01:01:55,225

Pleasure to be here.

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