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The Enduring Enterprise Pt. 2, with Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg
Episode 625th February 2025 • Let's Talk Legacy • Southwestern Family of Podcasts
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Devin DeCiantis and Ivan Lansberg, the Managing Partner and co-founder respectively of Lansberg Gersick Advisors, continue the discussion of their new book, THE ENDURING ENTERPRISE: How Family Businesses Thrive in Turbulent Conditions, including the possible consequences of the latest US election on family businesses, 7 stabilizing strategies for businesses and organizations, and weighing the "I" vs the "we".

Transcripts

Gary Michels:

So we don't really like to on this show get too

Gary Michels:

political or take sides on anything, but just looking at it

Gary Michels:

objectively, this book was written before the most recent

Gary Michels:

US presidential election, and that election is now over, and

Gary Michels:

it means a change in the administration and possible big

Gary Michels:

changes to business. Does that change anything in the book for

Gary Michels:

you, or change what you think the outlook is for family

Gary Michels:

businesses in the United States? And if so, or if not, what

Gary Michels:

impact do you believe this will have going forward?

Devin DeCiantis:

It's a great question Gary and obviously a

Devin DeCiantis:

sensitive one, but in general, I think it it addresses precisely

Devin DeCiantis:

one of the challenges that we wanted to write about in

Devin DeCiantis:

anticipation of not just the US election, but over the course of

Devin DeCiantis:

2024 more than half of the world, for the first time in

Devin DeCiantis:

history, went to the polls to elect their governments, and not

Devin DeCiantis:

just in the US, but in many countries. The outcomes of those

Devin DeCiantis:

elections were complicated and presented the businesses

Devin DeCiantis:

operating in those environments with potentially a very

Devin DeCiantis:

different world to navigate the day after the election than the

Devin DeCiantis:

day before the election. And part of our aspiration with the

Devin DeCiantis:

book was to provide examples from other places where perhaps

Devin DeCiantis:

those lurches left or right in the political spectrum or in

Devin DeCiantis:

terms of industrial policy might have been more dramatic, but

Devin DeCiantis:

they're dramatic with an effect. The effect is that you still

Devin DeCiantis:

need to attend to and think about how you're going to

Devin DeCiantis:

reposition yourself in the face of, you know, tariff barriers,

Devin DeCiantis:

or a change in access to to supply chains that are that are

Devin DeCiantis:

competitive, depending on which countries you operate in, and

Devin DeCiantis:

the importance of the diversification within those

Devin DeCiantis:

supply chains, the importance of redundancy built into your

Devin DeCiantis:

inventory and warehousing, the importance of strategic

Devin DeCiantis:

simplification in terms of recognizing the impact of

Devin DeCiantis:

inflation on your on your business model, and the

Devin DeCiantis:

compression on your margins, all of these issues that are dialed

Devin DeCiantis:

up to 11 in some environments around The world. You know,

Devin DeCiantis:

places where Hyperinflation is ripe are still present here,

Devin DeCiantis:

just not at 11, but maybe at seven on the dial. And most

Devin DeCiantis:

business leaders are used to a two or a three. So in that

Devin DeCiantis:

respect, we've hoped, as we wrote this book and in the

Devin DeCiantis:

selection of the cases that we've included, that this would

Devin DeCiantis:

be a bit of a new and fresh strategic playbook for leaders

Devin DeCiantis:

who are trying to navigate what is undoubtedly going to be among

Devin DeCiantis:

the most tumultuous several years in recent American

Devin DeCiantis:

history.

Ivan Lansberg:

The other thing I think this change highlights for

Ivan Lansberg:

me, and I think the book, certainly it builds on this

Ivan Lansberg:

concern, is that, let's say you take Elon Musk and have him

Ivan Lansberg:

moving to government to cut all the you know, inefficiencies go

Ivan Lansberg:

to speed. And, you know, I'm all for being for having an

Ivan Lansberg:

efficient government. I think that's terrific, that the

Ivan Lansberg:

concept is very nice. But before you move in with a with a

Ivan Lansberg:

chainsaw, you really need to pay attention for why those

Ivan Lansberg:

inexpiciencies are built into the system, and because if you

Ivan Lansberg:

cut them all away, you're basically jacking up risk that

Ivan Lansberg:

the institutional stabilizers, as we call them in the book,

Ivan Lansberg:

will begin to wither, and before you know it, the US is going to

Ivan Lansberg:

start beginning to look more like Guatemala, you know, in

Ivan Lansberg:

terms of its its ability, and for business people, the

Ivan Lansberg:

implications are huge, like you're pointing out exactly, you

Ivan Lansberg:

know. I mean, what will the stars do to our game? What will,

Ivan Lansberg:

you know? What will happen when we can count on, you know, in

Ivan Lansberg:

theme, to rescue people after a tornado goes by. I mean, once

Ivan Lansberg:

you take all that away, if you just slash and burn, you're

Ivan Lansberg:

going to be left with just a skeleton or something that

Ivan Lansberg:

really does expose the construct of the US to enormous risk.

Gary Michels:

It goes back to risk and reward again, what's

Gary Michels:

the risk and what's the reward? And if our world can get to a

Gary Michels:

spot where we're sitting at the table, whether you're left or

Gary Michels:

right, and you're fully saying what's going to be the best for

Gary Michels:

the world long term, that's why we all do what we do, right,

Gary Michels:

what's a good middle ground that that will be the best for most

Gary Michels:

people. Learning from all this, you guys have actually come up

Gary Michels:

with seven stabilizing strategies, and I love lists

Gary Michels:

that you they can help any organization increase its

Gary Michels:

resilience and performance. Would you guys mind sharing

Gary Michels:

those?

Devin DeCiantis:

Yeah, sure, and thanks Gary for calling it out.

Devin DeCiantis:

In fact, we didn't develop these strategies, these strategies we

Devin DeCiantis:

identified as recurring among the hundreds of families around

Devin DeCiantis:

the world we studied so as we as we went out and tried our best

Devin DeCiantis:

to understand this phenomena of enduring enterprises and what

Devin DeCiantis:

made them tick and what allowed for them to adapt to these

Devin DeCiantis:

tumultuous conditions, we kept coming back to this cluster.

Devin DeCiantis:

There were more than seven at one point, but we distilled it

Devin DeCiantis:

down to these seven because these were the seven most

Devin DeCiantis:

recurring caps. Patterns, and we dedicated in the book one

Devin DeCiantis:

chapter to each of these strategies, and included an

Devin DeCiantis:

iconic case study that exemplified each of the

Devin DeCiantis:

strategies. So, you know, I can list a couple of them here, but

Devin DeCiantis:

things like, like redundancy, which feels, again, we use that

Devin DeCiantis:

term almost pejoratively, like, oh, that's redundant. We don't

Devin DeCiantis:

need that extra infrastructure in order to be able to do what

Devin DeCiantis:

we do. But to Yvonne point just now, sometimes efficiencies are

Devin DeCiantis:

actually essential for the viability long term of an

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprise. And the iconic case that we use in the case of

Devin DeCiantis:

redundancy is as a hotel operator, a family controlled

Devin DeCiantis:

company in Haiti that's been this at the epicenter of every

Devin DeCiantis:

possible social, political, economic and environmental

Devin DeCiantis:

disaster you can imagine, over their 50 year leadership of this

Devin DeCiantis:

enterprise, and in the face of that, recognizing that at any

Devin DeCiantis:

moment, any one of the essential systems that allow for them to

Devin DeCiantis:

continue could break down. They have backup generators for their

Devin DeCiantis:

backup generators. They have backup communication systems.

Devin DeCiantis:

They have backup internet infrastructure. They have backup

Devin DeCiantis:

security teams. They have backup in your warehouses of and

Devin DeCiantis:

stockpiles of all the essential needs that their that their

Devin DeCiantis:

guests might might desire, not just for the time at which

Devin DeCiantis:

they're there, but in the event that the entire society

Devin DeCiantis:

collapses, as it had in the wake of the big earthquake in recent

Devin DeCiantis:

years and now with all sorts of Roman gangs circling through

Devin DeCiantis:

Port au Prince. So you recognize that with examples like this,

Devin DeCiantis:

that redundancy actually becomes a strategic asset as a pro as

Devin DeCiantis:

opposed to a, you know, an expense that is frivolous and

Devin DeCiantis:

that needs to be that needs to be reduced. Similarly for

Devin DeCiantis:

strategies like migration, it's really about resources at some

Devin DeCiantis:

point, in some circumstances. And we use and highlight a case

Devin DeCiantis:

from from Syria of an enterprising family whose assets

Devin DeCiantis:

were essentially expropriated by the government in in the 1960s

Devin DeCiantis:

and they had to migrate. They essentially were, were forced to

Devin DeCiantis:

either, you know, live as civilians in country, but not

Devin DeCiantis:

with the possibility of of continuing to operate, or

Devin DeCiantis:

migrating to neighboring Lebanon and starting back up from

Devin DeCiantis:

scratch, using their social capital, their intellectual

Devin DeCiantis:

capital, to rebuild an empire that ended up becoming a

Devin DeCiantis:

regional champion once again, but in the face of a hostile

Devin DeCiantis:

environment that's no longer receptive to your ongoing

Devin DeCiantis:

presence there, in some points, you just need to pick up and go.

Devin DeCiantis:

You need to know when to hold them and when to fold them and

Devin DeCiantis:

when it's time to fold them. You need to pick the appropriate

Devin DeCiantis:

destination for that journey, and I say that with a smile,

Devin DeCiantis:

knowing that you live in in Vegas...

Ivan Lansberg:

Haha, I was just thinking that. But, you know, I

Ivan Lansberg:

think one key point Gary is, is that it runs through all of the

Ivan Lansberg:

strategies. None of them come for free, and business owners

Ivan Lansberg:

are so focused on their operating models appropriately,

Ivan Lansberg:

right? So you know you're running a company, 90% of your

Ivan Lansberg:

attention is making sure you know the product is out the

Ivan Lansberg:

door, the service is provided, and everything is done in the

Ivan Lansberg:

most cost effective manner possible. But if you overlook

Ivan Lansberg:

also pausing and asking yourself, what risks are we

Ivan Lansberg:

taking and what measures might we built into our operating

Ivan Lansberg:

models to be able to cushion uncertainty which will come your

Ivan Lansberg:

way, one way or another. You know, whether it's 911 whether

Ivan Lansberg:

it's COVID, whether it is you know, the new administration,

Ivan Lansberg:

whatever it is, something's going to affect and touch your

Ivan Lansberg:

business. You better be ready for that, and understand that

Ivan Lansberg:

any one of those measures, like a spare tire in a car, you know,

Ivan Lansberg:

will take some resources, will occupy space. We'll weigh you

Ivan Lansberg:

down a little bit. But in exchange for that, you're upping

Ivan Lansberg:

the chances of continuity, which for most family enterprises, and

Ivan Lansberg:

very much in tune with your legacy construct is key. That is

Ivan Lansberg:

a key priority. So if you want to continue, you better be

Ivan Lansberg:

attentive to risk.

Gary Michels:

So as you guys know, our insurance companies

Gary Michels:

call Southwestern Legacy Insurance Group. Thus, Let's

Gary Michels:

Talk Legacy. Legacy is such an important part to what we do

Gary Michels:

every day, and when a person purchases insurance, it's

Gary Michels:

because they want to leave a legacy for somebody behind. It's

Gary Michels:

always an interest to us to understand what legacy means to

Gary Michels:

each and every person that we speak with every day. And I'd be

Gary Michels:

curious to each of you guys, what legacy means to you.

Devin DeCiantis:

That's a great question. And I'd be curious to

Devin DeCiantis:

go back and hear how your other guests have answered. In my

Devin DeCiantis:

perspective, when I think about legacy, I think about bringing

Devin DeCiantis:

forward into the present and carrying into the future those

Devin DeCiantis:

aspects or elements of our shared heritage that we want to

Devin DeCiantis:

celebrate and that we want to sustain. And it's also

Devin DeCiantis:

recognizing. The world around us is changing, and the world in

Devin DeCiantis:

which those legacies were first established isn't necessarily

Devin DeCiantis:

the world of today or the world of tomorrow, and so that we need

Devin DeCiantis:

to also adapt that legacy and bring forth the elements that we

Devin DeCiantis:

truly appreciate but embrace, perhaps some novelty and

Devin DeCiantis:

innovation that wasn't ever conceived when when the legacy

Devin DeCiantis:

was first established.

Ivan Lansberg:

And to me, it, you know, I became a grandfather

Ivan Lansberg:

seven years ago. And to me, that is, you know, a very important

Ivan Lansberg:

motivation to try and reflect on, what can I pass on to my

Ivan Lansberg:

grandchildren that will endure. You know, what are the stories,

Ivan Lansberg:

what are the values, what are the strategies that have, I've

Ivan Lansberg:

seen worked, and that this work actually reflects, you know, an

Ivan Lansberg:

inventory of that could be useful to them as they will

Ivan Lansberg:

tackle the world they will inherit with full knowledge that

Ivan Lansberg:

that world, as Devin suggests, will be quite different from the

Ivan Lansberg:

one I've lived.

Gary Michels:

Absolutely. Do either of you feel that your

Gary Michels:

personal legacies are any different than your work

Gary Michels:

legacies?

Devin DeCiantis:

It's a great question.

Ivan Lansberg:

Great question.

Devin DeCiantis:

I mean, I think they're inextricably

Devin DeCiantis:

intertwined, certainly at this age and stage in my in my

Devin DeCiantis:

career. You know, they're they're inseparable, although, I

Devin DeCiantis:

will say, you know, to the extent that we have personal

Devin DeCiantis:

lives outside of our professional lives, our most

Devin DeCiantis:

authentic selves will will align those, those elements of of your

Devin DeCiantis:

person that may be distinct from what's useful in your work, but

Devin DeCiantis:

it ought not to run across the grain, otherwise, you're

Devin DeCiantis:

probably in the wrong profession.

Gary Michels:

The reason that I asked that question is I've seen

Gary Michels:

so much lately, so many famous business people, athletes, even

Gary Michels:

executives and companies there, for the first time in years,

Gary Michels:

start to build their own individual brand, even within

Gary Michels:

that company, and it's them letting the world know who they

Gary Michels:

are, what their legacy is in the combination of the company or

Gary Michels:

the the environment that they're in. That's why I asked you guys,

Gary Michels:

do you have some personal legacies that you'd like to see

Gary Michels:

accomplished?

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, I know it's a great question, and I had two

Ivan Lansberg:

thoughts on that. One is, you know, there's something so

Ivan Lansberg:

important in families, because you're constantly managing the

Ivan Lansberg:

relationship between the I, who I am as an individual on the we,

Ivan Lansberg:

the identity that we hold together as a group, right? So

Ivan Lansberg:

that tension is inherently built into into families. The other

Ivan Lansberg:

thought I had about this was a story that I think Warren

Ivan Lansberg:

Buffett tells about, you know, some sometime they ask him, so

Ivan Lansberg:

how do you define success? And then he says that the person who

Ivan Lansberg:

dies with the most friends. And then they asked him, so how do

Ivan Lansberg:

you define a friend? And then he says, Well, a friend is and then

Ivan Lansberg:

he notes a friend of his who went through the Holocaust,

Ivan Lansberg:

right? And says, A friend is somebody who will hide you,

Ivan Lansberg:

meaning somebody who will take have enough conviction and

Ivan Lansberg:

commitment to you to take a personal risk on your behalf. An

Ivan Lansberg:

advocate, basically, an advocate, right? An advocate who

Ivan Lansberg:

will protect you when the time comes. Our emphasis on family

Ivan Lansberg:

unknown, on unknown risk, basically, in the book, it

Ivan Lansberg:

really comes from, you know, being exposed to families

Ivan Lansberg:

worldwide, in the US, in Europe, in Asia, in Latin America, in

Ivan Lansberg:

Africa, that are just exemplary at managing that tension and

Ivan Lansberg:

being able to call forth a collective identity that allows

Ivan Lansberg:

them to get you know, that gives them the resiliency they need to

Ivan Lansberg:

cope with it, the challenges they face.

Gary Michels:

Well, you guys have your new book out now, the

Gary Michels:

enduring enterprise. Tell us just briefly about the book and

Gary Michels:

where people can get the book, and then also how they can reach

Gary Michels:

the two of you if they want to learn more about your company

Gary Michels:

and the work that you do.

Devin DeCiantis:

Well, thanks, Gary. Should at this point be

Devin DeCiantis:

able to get the book pretty much anywhere, or is, you know,

Devin DeCiantis:

there's bookstores and Amazon and audible and Kindle and all

Devin DeCiantis:

these other formats. At the end of the day, our aspiration with

Devin DeCiantis:

that was to get these ideas out to as many people as they could

Devin DeCiantis:

possibly benefit. We captured the ideas in the book to

Devin DeCiantis:

introduce these counter intuitive notions and to

Devin DeCiantis:

establish not only family businesses, but emerging in

Devin DeCiantis:

frontier economies as sources of inspiration for business leaders

Devin DeCiantis:

everywhere, and we really do hope that over the course of

Devin DeCiantis:

this the conversation, as well as if folks end up picking up

Devin DeCiantis:

the book and having a read or taking a listen, that they are

Devin DeCiantis:

inspired to embrace some of these approaches. And if they

Devin DeCiantis:

ever want to reach out to us to talk about them or to think

Devin DeCiantis:

about how to apply them, they can reach. Said at LGA or via

Devin DeCiantis:

LinkedIn, or many of these other mechanisms of of connecting. But

Devin DeCiantis:

most, above all, we really hope these ideas are valuable and

Devin DeCiantis:

that folks are able to take them and do good work out there in

Devin DeCiantis:

the world.

Ivan Lansberg:

Yeah, we believe in the power of ideas, and the

Ivan Lansberg:

book is really our attempt at trying to summarize that

Ivan Lansberg:

experience and share them with with others. You know, as we

Ivan Lansberg:

often think about this, it's it's continues to be a work in

Ivan Lansberg:

progress. We don't pretend to have all the answers here, but

Ivan Lansberg:

we do want to get people curious about how important continuity

Ivan Lansberg:

and resiliency are in building legacies.

Gary Michels:

Is there a website or a phone number that they can

Gary Michels:

reach you all?

Devin DeCiantis:

Absolutely, at LGA.global, you can reach our

Devin DeCiantis:

team. We've got about 40 of us around the world who are wise

Devin DeCiantis:

and caring advisors to the world's leading, enterprising

Devin DeCiantis:

families, and would love to hear from anybody who wants to

Devin DeCiantis:

discuss these topics.

Gary Michels:

Awesome. Well, I thank you guys for your time so much.

Ivan Lansberg:

Thank you, Gary.

Devin DeCiantis:

Thank you Gary.

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