Terry Cook and guest Nick Smith dive into the evolving world of electric vehicles (EVs), exploring the distinctions between manual, automatic, and electric driving experiences.

They discuss how EVs are not only reshaping the way we drive but also challenging common misconceptions, such as concerns over battery reliability and environmental impact.

They address myths surrounding EV technology, including the belief that charging stations are always empty.

Nick shares his insights on the practical advantages of teaching in an electric vehicle, highlighting features like regenerative braking that enhance the driving experience. By the end of the conversation, listeners will appreciate the advancements in EV technology and why learning to drive in these modern vehicles can lead to safer roads for everyone.

Find more from Nick here

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Terry Cook welcomes Nick Smith to the Instructor Podcast, diving deep into the evolving landscape of vehicle technology with a focus on electric vehicles (EVs). The discussion centers on the practical differences between manual, automatic, and electric cars, emphasizing the unique driving experience each offers. Cook shares his personal journey of transitioning from a manual to an EV, explaining the benefits he has encountered, such as the joy of never stalling and the smoothness of driving an electric vehicle. Smith elaborates on how the teaching methods for learners differ when driving an EV, particularly in terms of braking and acceleration, which can feel markedly different due to regenerative braking technology. This innovative feature allows the car to convert kinetic energy back into electricity, thereby enhancing efficiency and reducing the need for frequent charging, a detail that is especially relevant for driving instructors training future drivers.

As the conversation unfolds, Cook and Smith tackle common misconceptions about EVs, including concerns about battery life and reliability. They discuss the advancements in battery technology, noting that many modern electric vehicles come with warranties that reflect their durability. Smith highlights the importance of teaching learners about the unique characteristics of driving an EV, including the technology that underpins it, which can ultimately lead to safer and more informed drivers on the road. They also touch upon the broader implications of adopting EVs, such as their environmental impact compared to traditional combustion engines, making a case for the importance of understanding these vehicles in the context of modern driving instruction.

The episode concludes with a humorous yet insightful look at the future of driving, with both hosts agreeing that as technology continues to advance, educators in the driving space must adapt to ensure that new drivers are well-prepared to navigate the roads with confidence, whether they are in an EV, a hybrid, or a traditional gasoline vehicle. The dialogue is punctuated with anecdotes and valuable insights, making it clear that the transition to electric driving is not only viable but also exciting for both instructors and learners alike.

Takeaways:

• Electric vehicles (EVs) provide a smoother and quieter driving experience compared to traditional combustion engines, enhancing overall enjoyment.
• Regenerative braking in EVs allows drivers to recover energy while slowing down, making it more efficient than conventional braking systems.
• The transition from manual to EVs can help reduce learner anxiety, as there is no clutch to manage.
• Most EVs are equipped with advanced safety features that can significantly reduce accident risks for new drivers.
• Charging infrastructure is rapidly improving, and many drivers can charge their EVs at home, reducing reliance on public charging stations.
• EV batteries are designed to last, often maintaining over 90% capacity even after eight years of use.

The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook talking with leaders, innovators, experts and game changers about what drives them.

Welcome to the Instructor Podcast.

This is a show that helps you become an even more awesome driving instructor and run a better business.

As always, I am your splendid host Terry Cook and I'm delighted to be here, but even more delighted that you have chosen to listen because we are continuing season nine which is based all around technology.

And who better to have sponsor a technology season than My Drive Time, the industry's premium award winning business management app.

Find out more@mydrivetime.co.uk but on today's show we take a deep dive into vehicle technology, namely the difference between manual, auto and evs as Nick Smith joins us to explain all, including regenerative braking, the batteries over the updates, and how Nick teaches differently in an ev.

But just before we get stuck in, I want to point you in the direction of the Instructor podcast website.

That's www.the instructorpodcast.com.

over there you can find everything we have to offer, including our entire back catalog of episodes, free resources and more details on our paid membership which is currently a three weeks trial.

Find out more@theinstructorpodcast.com but for now, let's get stuck into the show.

So we're now joined by Nick Smith, also known as Robin Hood.

How we doing Nick?

I'm not too bad, Terry.

How are you?

All the better.

Seeing your smiley face obviously.

And thank you for joining us today because I want to talk about evs.

I want to talk about auto, the difference between evs, auto, manual cars and all that kind of stuff.

And you're someone I wanted to get on to talk about it.

But I want to start off by asking you, what do you teach in at the moment?

I teach in, I call her Eva and I love her dearly.

So 64 kilowatt hour, 150 kilowatt premium, full, full name Hyundai small SUV with an electric drivetrain in it.

I know what about 7% of that.

Means, so would you like me to translate for you?

Well, he said you love her daily, so tell me why you love a daily.

What is it of that that makes you love her daily?

She, first of all, she actually looks quite good.

She's not the car that I ordered.

I ordered a Kia and got a Hyundai because I got Eva when all the supply chain disruption from COVID was still having an effect.

And I was with A national driving school at the time, who still owes, still owns my car until I've paid for it in just over a year's time.

But I went to them and basically I said to them, I did the old car salesman's trick of put an offer out.

You know, they're going to reject to get what you actually want.

Yeah.

And what I actually wanted was a 1.5 turbo manual Kia XCeed 2.

But that engine had only been out for a month.

This driving school didn't buy new cars, they bought used ones.

So I knew I was gonna have a hard sell getting to buy a brand new car.

So the first thing I said was, right, I'll fix one of your problems if you fix one of mine.

I'll fix your lack of auto instructors if you fix the fact my fuel bill is too high.

And it took about six weeks for them to agree to buy this car for me.

But when they did, all of the Kia souls in the country had sold.

There wasn't one available.

And I was kind of voiced by Man Petard a bit because then I was right on going on going automatic.

But we found my car, she was pre registered, so she was a year old with 38 miles on the clock.

About five miles away from this driving school's head office as well.

So it's relatively local to them.

And I sat down and I thought, okay, I want the song.

I love the way they look, I love the way they feel.

They're really comfortable.

I had as a demonstrator when I was a car salesman the first Kia soul in the country not registered to Kia as my demonstrator, the first one ever.

So I've had a bit of a love affair with this, with this model for years.

But that was heart.

The business head said what I needed was the, I'd say the oily bits from underneath it, but there's no oil in it, so the not oily bits from underneath it.

And the Kona is basically a direct sibling to the, to the song.

So I've got the drivetrain that the business needed in a body that was different to the one that I wanted.

And I've come to love her.

She's taken a little while to grow on me, but I do love her.

She's great.

And I mean, I went to a driving test yesterday and you made the thing about, also known as Robin Hood.

I went to the archery club yesterday evening and the examiner had no idea there was a high poundish compound bow and 75 arrows in the boot.

So she can Serve both of my purposes, business and personal.

There you go.

Well, I wanted to get you on because you've driven all sorts, you've dealt in all kinds of different vehicles.

So I want to start off by asking you to talk us through the difference between manual, automatic and an EV and talk us through it to someone that doesn't know.

Okay, let's start off with manual.

Manual is quite simple.

You've got a combustion engine at the front.

Petrol goes in, spark fire, spins a crankshaft, which goes into a gearbox.

Now, in that gearbox, you've got a number of different cogs.

And as you select first, second, third, fourth, fifth, you are changing the difference between the wheels and the engine's speed.

And you select that manually.

With a H pattern gearbox or.

Or whatever the selection method is, there's a clutch that you've got to control yourself because you decide when the gears are going to change.

You'll be familiar with this.

I know that you teach manual.

Yep.

For automatic, there are two ways that they tend to do it.

Well, two and a half.

Either the manufacturer will automate the manual.

They took the clutch pedal away because the computer decided when to use it rather than the driver, and that then became compliant with.

Compliant with code.

Code 79 on the license, which is automated transmission.

The transmission that that refers to isn't actually the gearbox.

It's the bit between the engine and the gearbox or the bit in the bell housing.

So that's either a clutch or a torque converter.

Okay.

If the driver has no control over that, you can drive it on an automatic license.

Okay.

So you can still change gears on an automatic license.

It's got to do it with a flappy paddle gearbox like Volkswagen's dsj.

So the two things I refer to their clutch, you know about, because you.

You teach about it or teach it all the time.

Pedal goes down, plates open, pedal comes up, plates close and transfer power.

Torque converter is basically.

Basically a disc of oil with a fan on each side.

The engine spins the fan, and when you come off the brakes, the fan that's attached to the wheels can also spin and the oil causes it to turn, which is why a torque converter automatic will creep.

So when you come off the brakes in a automatic with a torque converter, the car will start to roll forward.

Okay.

Then you get to electric, which is basically an automatic.

But there is generally no Gearbox, there's a reduction gear in there because the motor spins faster than the wheels need, but there's no additional cogs and it's just an electric motor which drives through this reduction gearbox directly to the wheels and drives the car forward.

Still no clutch pedal.

So automatic.

You've answered the question.

Yes.

You've explained in a way that made sense to me, so I'm sure, so others will understand it.

But what made you switch then?

Because.

Well, in fact, what made you skip automatic?

Because I know that in your.

Your learner car you went from manual to elect ev.

What made you skip automatic?

I mean, partially, as I said, I was by my own petard a bit.

I.

I put out the.

I know they won't spend this much on a car, so I'll get the one that I want.

And they agreed to spend that much on my car.

But I.

I didn't want to go automatic.

When I went and test drove the manual, they had the electric demonstrator there and I was intrigued enough to say, can I have a go?

And we got to the first speed limit, change from 30 to 60 and I was giggling like a schoolgirl.

It was brilliant fun.

It drove really well, it was really quiet, it was comfortable, it was smooth.

Which is why I took the risk of them agreeing to it.

Automatic.

If I'm going to have to pay for petrol, I'd rather change gear myself because I feel more involved driving a manual.

It's interesting because I no desire to go automatic, but I do have a desire to go ev and not necessarily for the environmental aspect.

All that does play a part for me.

But I think you're right, I like changing gear.

I think, you know, I'm.

I enjoy a combustion engine.

I.

I do, but.

So when I change the automatic, seems pointless to me, it might as well go to it.

But I'm interested to ask about your learners as well.

So when you switched, did you have learners when you switched that went from one car to the other?

I did.

I had.

I'd say probably about 30% of my learners came with me.

Of those two of them decided they didn't like my car, my new car, so they continued learning with me in their own manual.

Right.

But it's.

About 30% of my learners came with me rather than rejoin the waiting list for a manual instructor.

So may have been aided and abetted by the time we were in, because at that time, waiting lists were immense.

Yeah.

So there were a couple that like it, but what.

What were the thoughts of the ones that stayed?

How did they?

I mean, they must presume they liked it because they stayed.

But how did they find the car?

At the end of the day, it's just a car.

And once they got used to not putting the clutch down, first couple of junctions, I did, I did do the whole, right, we're going back to a nursery room thing while you get used to this.

And one of the things I liked about it is that I was no longer being thrown sideways around my own car.

Instead, they kept trying to put me through the windscreen because when we came up to a junction, there was a couple of times that both feet went onto the brake pedal.

But after that, it was just a car.

They liked the fact it was a bit bigger.

I mean, the listener can't see me.

You can.

I'm not exactly a small chap.

The car that I was teaching him before was a courser.

So I.

I took up a fair bit of space in the car with it being a slightly larger car, there was more space for.

For both of us.

And there is a race center console in my car.

So there is a physical divider between instructor and learner.

Right.

There's a.

There's a.

There's a barrier that it's a whole lot easier to not subconsciously cross.

So they like that.

They like the technology that was in it in terms of the driver assistance features and things like that.

And they got to know the technology in it that was.

With regards to the electric drivetrain, that.

Physical bar you mentioned.

I reckon that a few instructors could do with that, considering some of the feedback I've had from my recent episode with Laura Morris where she said, be careful where your hands go.

A lot of people said that, so that could be useful.

But see, I drive, I teach like this.

You can see me, my arms are crossed.

And that's because I talk.

You can see I talk.

My hands.

Yeah.

And my hands can talk their way onto the wrong side of the car without realizing they're doing it.

Yes, you and I alike, I think there.

But.

So what's your.

I suppose, from two perspective, what's your overall experience been with the ev from the perspective of a driver and that.

As a adi, as an instructor, it's been absolutely fine.

The only problem I've had with this particular car is one learner who said it was too big.

And that's.

That's obviously a car thing, not an electric thing.

Because if I'd have turned up in the hybrid version or if I turned up in the manual, it's the same shell.

It's the same size.

So that's, that's not even an electric car problem.

Most learners love it.

They usually towards the end of their learning journey, I point out to them that they never stalled and they're like, oh, yeah, I've never stalled.

How have I never stalled?

It says, well, one, it's automatic.

Two, you cannot, it's, it's physically impossible to store an electric.

It just cannot be done.

There's nothing there to store.

But they, they do get that little dopamine boost when I point out to them, yeah, you do realize everybody is learning in a manual car stalled by now and you haven't.

But yeah, it's.

I teach it as a car, not as an electric car.

First I'll teach them to drive the car, then I'll teach them to drive an electric if there's time left because there is some slightly different ways that I can drive it.

So I teach my learners, obviously, the brake pedal to stop, the accelerator pedal to go, etc.

Etc.

When I drive the car, I mean, I drive, I will tomorrow, as I say, drive to York from Sheffield for a competition and I will not touch the brake pedal all the way there.

Even when I get there, I won't touch a brake pedal.

I'll stop it using the flappy paddles.

I can drive spiritedly without illegally.

I like that phrasing spiritedly but not illegally.

Oh, no, it's great because obviously most cars these days have got a programmable speed limiter.

So you can set the speed limiter and you can absolutely tear the back end out of it all the way up to the limit and then it stops.

So I can enjoy the drive when it's safe to do.

So Woodhead Pass is great fun in it and you're never once doing anything unsafe or illegal.

It's.

Have you ever driven one of the larger engine small cars like citroen Did a C1 diesel?

No.

The C1 diesel was a brilliant piece of fun because it weighed about 3kg soaking wet and it had a 1.4 diesel in it, so it could motor.

And outside of electric, it's the most fun I've ever had in a car.

It's got no features at all.

I mean, they were.

The big selling point for this car was the fact it had a CD player.

But it's, it's.

Because it's a different way of driving.

It's about preserving the momentum rather than using the power.

And with the ev, it's the same because if you're using the brakes, you're wasting energy.

Yeah.

I do want to come on to breaking in a minute, but just before we do, you were saying before about some of the ways that you, like you teach children to drive, as in generally drive, and then you add in some stuff that's specific to an ev.

So what are some of the bits that you might add in?

Very early on I discussed the different way it breaks because that's important to know.

And in any here or Hyundai of the same vintage as mine, and I do say vintage, but any Kia, Hyundai at the same age, you've got flappy paddles that allow you to control the electronic braking.

So we do practice driving the car with the braking set to mimic a combustion car.

Yeah.

Because I am very well aware that the majority of my learners will drive a combustion car after eva, not an electric.

Later on, if we have time, we then go into the whole.

But this is how you drive it without ever touching the brake pedal.

Because by then they've developed the skills.

We're basically marking time, waiting for the six month away test.

And they've developed the skills to read the road far enough ahead that they can plan.

They can plan their stopping so it can take slightly longer and be more energy and fuel efficient.

And these are techniques that they can take into their combustion car and save on petrol.

From your experience, because I know there's still talk around making it so that the automatic driving license will cover manual cars as well.

From your experience, would that be a wise decision?

It depends.

The decision to stop trailer training had exactly the effect I expected it to.

Quite a lot of people went out and bought a caravan.

A relatively small minority went out and bought training.

There will be people that go out and buy training and that that work well for them.

But if you take somebody that's only ever driven with two pedals and give them a third one, then that does increase risk.

However, it's worked in America for years.

Generally, it's worked in America.

We all see the popular culture and people kangarooing around the streets of large American cities, learning to drive stick, as they call it.

But if it happens, we'll deal with it.

You tend to find the people that would choose to drive a manual are the enthusiasts, those with a passion for it, that are more likely to engage with training because they want to protect the item that they treasure.

Putting you on the spot a little bit with this one, I think, actually because.

Do you think that because of the way you've just described, you work with all others and the things you teach them, do you think that your learners would be able to manage a clutch essentially better because of the way you taught them.

I'm gonna say no, because we don't actually talk a lot about clutch.

Right.

Because we don't have one.

They've chosen to learn to drive in a vehicle which doesn't have one.

So I don't tend to discuss what a clutch is and what it does unless they say, oh, I've gone out and I bought this car.

Oh, that's.

That one's got a clutch in it.

So this, when your car goes sort of rocks you forward and back.

When you're accelerating, that's what's happening is the computer's opening and closing the clutch, so you're breaking power, which is why it's feeling different.

To this, we discuss the differences between their car and mine, but we don't discuss the differences between my car and a hypothetical other car.

Interesting.

Anyway, slightly off topic, but what I did want to ask you specifically as well was I can't think of where to phrase this other than pass rate.

So when you've switched from manual to ev, did anything around the test and around your pass rate potentially change dramatically or was it a seamless switch?

There was a change.

It was a trend ever so slightly downwards, but it wasn't drastic compared to my reasonably limited experience in manual because I only taught in manual for about a year and a half.

So compared to that, I'm dealing with more learners with anxiety, I'm dealing with more learners with other mental health issues, and I'm dealing directly because of the change in to something automatic.

I'm dealing with a lot more learners with physical disability as well, particularly the ones with anxiety, with autism and other conditions like that.

Sometimes I say, sometimes they need to have a go and fail to have a chance at passing.

They need to experience it because we do what we can with the mock test.

But you've never got that extra percentage of.

At the end of this, I might get a license.

So there are some that need to fail to have a chance to pass.

It's interesting you say that, because I think I've unintentionally develop a reputation in my area as the guy that helps people with anxiety and that side of it, but also as the guy that gets you out of trouble when your instructor screwed you over.

I'm that guy.

So I don't see that difference in manual and automatic or ev.

But more people with anxiety do go to automatic, don't they?

Yes.

The other thing is, when I was teaching Emanuel, I was Being assigned my learners by a national driving school.

The majority of the time I've been teaching in automatic, I've been independent.

So I'm picking my learners and my learners have been picking me.

Yeah.

So part of that change could be, as you say, that I'm developing a reputation for.

I'm the one to go to if you have these conditions.

I mean, I doubt it, because we have one of the most experienced, complex needs instructors in the country who lives about four miles that way.

But it could be that my reputation is attracting these types of learners to me.

Do you think like the people that struggle with anxiety and that side of stuff?

So drift towards automatic because there's a feeling it's going to be easier because there's no clutch?

Yes.

I think it's a mistaken impression because 5% of our job is teaching them how to operate the vehicle and 95% is teaching to predict what the other person's going to do.

So the actual learning to drive, learning to operate the car is easy, learning to drive is hard.

But that for anxiety, also for autistic spectrum disorders, there's sequencing issues.

So removing the clutch gear, clutch steps from the chain does help with people that have issues with sequencing.

So adhd, autism and things like that, they're almost now being signposted towards automatic rather than manual, because the general perception is it's easier, it is possible for anybody to learn to drive a manual.

It just might take a lot longer.

Yeah, I would agree, I would agree.

But I do want to move on because I want to talk a bit about breaking, as we said earlier, I want to talk about some of the specifics to EV and the technology around that, and one of which is breaking, because I've never driven an ev, but I have had it explained to me and, you know, I'm aware of it.

So tell us, tell us why the braking's different in an ev.

Okay, the first thing to mention here is that all a car is is a device for converting energy.

So your car takes liquid energy in the form of petrol, converts it to movement energy via fire.

Yeah.

And when you need to get rid of that movement energy, you put your foot on the brake pedal, friction turns that kinetic energy into heat and sound and gets rid of it.

Yeah.

In my car, I have an additional braking system.

It's called regenerative braking.

And basically the way it works, if you look at a motor and a generator, the hardware is the same.

It's just where the force comes in.

So to make it make a motor go, you put Electricity in one end and movement comes out the other.

To generate electricity, you put movement in one end and electricity comes out the other way.

Regenerative braking does both, basically.

So when you're driving forwards, you're taking electricity from the battery, converting it to movement via the motor, which is then transferred to the wheels.

When you want to slow down, you take your foot off the accelerator, you stop, providing electricity to the motor.

So now the motor's energy is coming from the turning wheels and it converts that kinetic energy via the magnets and the coils of copper wire that are inside the motor back into electricity and puts it into the battery.

Now there is no new energy in the universe.

This is a basic fundamental of physics.

So the energy we have now is the same amount of energy as there was at the Big Bang, and the same amount as when it all comes back in.

In a couple of billion years time.

Don't worry, we won't be here for it.

So all we're doing here is converting kinetic energy back into electrical energy.

There is a loss because there's road friction, there's air resistance.

No system is 100% efficient, so there's going to be loss in transmission and things like that.

But I tend to use probably about 35% of my volts twice through regenerative braking.

It does help that I teach in the city on seven hills, there's a lot of downhill and a lot of regenerative braking.

But that's what regenerative braking is.

Basically, it's converting kinetic energy back to electrical energy and storing it in the battery and basically it gives me more free petrol.

I'm reading up on this and it says a normal car braking simply wastes energy.

But with regenerative braking, I got it right, regenerative braking, some of this otherwise unharnessed energy is able to be reused.

And I don't know, I like that.

That appeals to me.

But I also found it interesting that they described it as on a normal car.

So evs are still classed as the outlier.

They're not a normal car.

There's something different.

And, you know, just out of curiosity, do you like that?

The fact that it's viewed almost as an abnormal.

Abnormal car?

As an ev?

Personally, yes.

Professionally, no.

Personally, I like having the special one.

Professionally, no.

Because if it's viewed as being abnormal, then it reduces my potential customer pull.

Yeah.

What I will say is, when was that written?

I can't tell you now because for.

The last, I think about a year off top of my head, electrified vehicles.

So including hybrids have made up more than 50% of the market.

So what that article turns a normal car is now slightly abnormal.

I would hazard a guess it's less when it was written in more it was written by, you know, if it's written by the combustion engine fan, it's going to be normal.

Yeah.

And everything else.

I mean looking at the the nation's fleet, electric is still a very small part.

Yeah.

Hybrid is still a relatively small part.

So I could take the argument that that is normal looking at the whole fleet, but looking at the new car market, vehicles that have regenerative braking because hybrids get their energy the same way using regenerative braking.

Looking at those then in the new car market, pure combustion is now slightly a rarity compared to electro.

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Is regenerative breaking something that you discuss and talk for with your students as well?

Yes, you When I got to the whole conversion of energy thing, you might have noticed it a little bit more practice and a little less talk.

It is something that I that I have to explain on a on a relatively regular basis because usually at the point where they're starting to do private practice in their own car, because when they're saying can I go out in my own car?

It's yes, but this progenitor braking you've been feeling may not be present in your 20 year old mini, which, I mean, the learner that passed yesterday, she's got a 15 year old mini called Mouse and we talked a lot about the difference between my car and hers.

Yeah, I'd have loved that car for my first car.

So, I mean, you can change your settings as well, can't you?

So it's a different level of regeneration, I suppose.

Yeah, yeah.

Not all cars allow you to do that, but a lot of them do these days.

Mine has four levels.

The newer Kia's have five, new Kia and Hyundai have five.

So level zero is just that, no regenerative braking.

And that is, even for somebody that's used to driving, combustion, that's scary because in your car you come off the accelerator, what happens?

Slow down?

Yeah.

Well, eventually set it to zero and it does slow down, but it's completely imperceptible because the only thing slowing the car down is wind resistance and tire.

You know, the tire resistance.

Yeah.

So it's.

You come off the accelerator and you expect the car to slow down and sometimes it even speeds up, which is mildly scary.

Level one is approximately equivalent to an automatic car's engine braking.

Right.

Level two is a little bit more than a big, big manual, a big engine manual, so 2 litre diesel manual engine braking.

And level three is.

I mean, it's enough that if you're, if you come off the accelerator on the motorway, all the way off the accelerator on the motorway, the car will pitch you forward in the seat, the seatbelt will catch you.

It breaks that hard and it regenerates actually faster than it charges on a rapid charger.

So it can regenerate at about 85kW kilowatt hour, whereas rapid charging goes up to about 77.

Does the actual braking feel any different?

So, like you said, you come off the gas, or not gas in your case, but you can off the accelerator.

Come off the volts.

Yeah, yeah.

And the level that's set to will affect how much you slow down.

But does the braking feel any different in comparison?

Not in mine.

Mine is break by wire.

So you put your foot on the foot brake and the computer will then use any remaining regenerative braking to achieve the amount of retardation that you want.

If you can't achieve that retardation with solar regenerative, it will bring the friction brakes into use.

One of the major upsides of regenerative braking.

My car is currently 99,110ish miles and it's still on the original brakes.

See, I was reading about this as well, let's found this interesting.

You know, you hear all the stuff about your tires wearing down quicker and stuff but then that's offset by the fact that you, you know, your brake pads last longer.

But one of the things I read was that certain sort of mechanics and garages were saying that occasionally they're finding that the brakes on electrics are seizing up because they're not being used enough.

So is that again something that you talk through specifically our learners?

Do you actually get them or do you as a driver use the brake a bit more consciously just to make sure that they are being used?

I don't need to because my learners do it for me.

Right.

I do discuss it with learners that are looking to go into electric vehicles after.

What I tend to say is if you take it to an electric car specialist for servicing, I take mine to.

There's an organization out there called hevra, Hybrid and Electric Vehicle Repairers association that basically certify independent garages to work on high voltage vehicles.

And there's a he approved garage about a mile away from my house.

So EVA has gone to them for every service because they are significantly cheaper than the Hyundai dealer, which is about the same distance in the other direction.

Now I take it into, into them and every second or third service they'll strip the brakes down, clean them and put them back together.

Because they are specialist in electric vehicles, they take the wheel off to check the brakes and go, yeah, they've barely been used.

I best clean them, otherwise they're going to seize up.

Yeah.

So if you go to the right people, you don't need to worry about this or if you have the skills, do it yourself.

But I love that you discuss this.

Real earners.

It probably seems obvious to you but you know, so I've been talking about a lot recently is, is a road safety aspect and what we should be talking about more of our learners.

And I just, I can imagine there'd be a lot of instructors that potentially teach an EV that don't discuss this, that just teach much like you were doing a manual, the basics of how to drive and then off your trot.

So you know, I love that you're doing that.

It depends on why you became an instructor.

Yeah.

And what your level of understanding of how the car actually works is.

Now I got into it because I'm a petrol head.

Look at my working history.

I'm a driving instructor now.

I was a truck driver before, I was a car salesman before that and I worked in the drive through lane at McDonald's before that cars have always been a part of my working life.

I will also point out that when my teachers told me no one was going to pay me to sit on my backside out the window all day, I have proved them very wrong.

But those that come into it because they're, they're good at driving, they're looking for the flexibility maybe to work around children.

They may have come in from retail or hospitality or somewhere where they have no reason to know how it works.

They just know that when they turn the car on, it starts and then we put it in gear, it drives.

That's absolutely fine.

And I'm not saying that instructors need to be qualified mechanics because they don't.

You can just say, right, this is do this and it will work.

Because the vast majority of road users are do this and it will work.

There's a relatively small percentage of that that know what's happening when you press this, what is actually happening to make it work.

No, I, I agree completely.

No, I'm the prime example of this.

I know bugger all about cars.

Someone asked me recently what size engine I've got and I couldn't tell them and I checked to tell them and now 0.5 turbo.

I've forgotten.

I couldn't tell you now because I don't care.

It's the least interesting thing in the world to me.

But I do enjoy driving.

I just have no interest in cars.

But what I do know is that when I go out to my car today, I'm going to have a quick walk around just to check everything looks good.

So I can pass that on to my learners.

You know, we can pass on these, these car basic skills, whether that's manual, automatic, petrol, diesel, ev, whatever.

So I love that you've changed car completely and I now have switched some of the aspects as you said at the beginning.

Switch some of the aspects of what you teach to accommodate that.

Again, creating safer drivers on the road.

Yeah.

Even if a learner says to me, for example, I have a customer net, well, she's just passed actually, so she's no longer a customer.

Her vehicle's currently provided by the motability scheme.

So she has.

It's a combustion car brand spanking new Audi, Audi Q2.

But she will not remain eligible for the scheme for life.

So eventually she's going to need to source her own vehicle that's probably not going to be a brand spanking new Audi.

So she needs to have at least a rough idea of how to drive a 10, 15 year old Audi.

Yeah, but when that changes, I hate to use the DVSA's catchphrase, but we're about safe driving for life, not just for the first five minutes after passing.

Oh, let's not do another hour podcast on this because I'm not sure I 100% agree.

But either way, that's me not sick.

I'm not sick.

For anyone listening now, I'm not saying D drags there for life.

I'm not going down that avenue.

I think the last thing I want to ask about this, and this might seem fairly obvious, but I'm intrigued by it.

Again, I've never driven an EV before and I'm sure if I think other people as well, we've got to the breaking.

What's the.

What's aggressive braking like?

Car.

It's supposed controlled stop it.

Is that just like.

Does that feel normal?

Is there any ever any issues with that or.

No, it.

It.

It feels normal ever so slightly.

You get on the brakes faster because as soon as you come past the point where you're providing enough power for the speed you're doing.

Yeah.

So as in your combustion car, you put your foot on the accelerator and then you come a little bit off when you get to the speed you want to maintain it.

If you're then coming past that, the car immediately starts slowing down.

Yeah.

So you're coming speed you want minus one.

Yeah.

The car's starting to break at that point and regenerate energy.

So there's a very, very slight, quicker transition from acceleration to braking.

But it's not particularly noticeable.

I mean, at the moment, you know, you teach it every day.

You go stop with your hand up and then you brace and you.

You're more worried about not headbutting your own dashboard than you are about exactly how the car's slowing down.

Yes.

I want to ask you about a couple of things, so I want to talk such on batteries a little bit.

And maybe this is more around the myth of batteries, but I'm still intrigued by it because whenever I read about this online or people talk about there's this myth that an EV battery needs to replace every three days and all this kind of stuff.

What's your experience with that?

What's your knowledge on that?

Oh, my.

Subscribe and save for Jira sales with Amazon is set up early days batteries were getting bricked.

This is due to early technology, early adopters.

The technology, the infrastructure around the electric vehicle not being electric vehicle, specialized.

Did you ever watch Top Gear?

No, I had no interest in cars.

I don't like Jeremy Clarkson.

Fair enough.

The reason I say this is back when electric vehicles were very new and novel.

First generation Zoe, first generation Leaf, they did an episode where they drove from London to somewhere around York for a day out and they had to stop and run extension cables and plug their three pin plug in and go for dinner in a hotel room while the car charged.

And this, that and the other.

That infrastructure was not optimized for electric vehicles these days the infrastructure is.

So on the rare occasion that I don't charge at home, that I charge out in public, the car and the charger are constantly talking to each other and saying, right, give me this much now because I can take it.

Okay, I'm getting a bit full, left it off a bit, otherwise you're going to start hurting me.

And the car and the charger are constantly communicating and optimizing the charge to charge as fast as they can without damaging the car.

So I have say I'm just about to, just about to tip over 100,000 miles.

I'm hoping it's not on a lesson so I can get the photo.

If it isn't a lesson, the learner might be pulling up on the side of a dual carriage.

I'm about to tip over a hundred thousand miles.

I am seeing the same day to day lived mileage as I was when I first got the car.

It's about 250, 260 to a charge.

It's interesting because again I reading up on this and I'm looking at it, a lot of EVs are coming with eight year warranties and I'm thinking, hold on, if you've got an eight year warranty, then the battery must be, they must be planned.

The battery lasting for more than eight years cannot put an eight year warranty on something that when the battery goes after two.

But then looking inside even further, they were finding that after eight years the batteries had a 92% capacity of the original.

As an, as an average 92% capacity.

Like you said, there's always going to be some that are worse, especially the earlier models.

But any average is an average.

Yeah, just like the average of 40 hours.

Some people pass in seven hours, some people pass in seven years.

It's the same with batteries.

Nissan a couple of years ago put out almost like a statement video thing, basically saying that something like 90% of the electric vehicle batteries they've ever produced are still storing and delivering electricity.

The ones that have been in cars that have been either mechanically or through accident damage written off.

Nissan have bought Back put into shipping containers up at Sunderland and they use them to store solar and wind to power the plant.

Yeah.

So, and this is first generation Leaf batteries.

Now these will only be storing about 50% of their designed energy at this point, but that's still a relatively usable amount.

But I mean, this stuff around batteries and it's still perpetrated, it's still what I see online.

You know, when I see people, I'll see someone post about an ev, not even bragging about the ev.

They'll just be talking about, oh, I've got a new kitten ev.

And you'll see the people jump on.

And batteries is one that's almost always put up there.

Do you think that's a myth or do you think that something that used to be true and people have now got in their heads and they can't get out of the head, so this is one of the things they're always going to keep coming back to.

Yes, in the same way that everybody knows that Fiats are unreliable.

Yeah, they're not.

They used to be.

Everybody knows that Skodas are slow.

Anybody that's driven a VRs knows they're not slow.

I mean, Skoda won the Junior World Rally Championship several years in a row, but the reputation is there slow.

So that is now taken as fact.

The.

I mean, the worst thing ever to happen for electric vehicles was Reva bringing out the gee whiz.

It was ugly, it was slow, it took forever to charge and the batteries lasted about 10 seconds.

But that was people's first exposure to electric vehicles and that that memory has endured.

I was tempted to talk about stuff like charging points and stuff like that today, but I don't think we need to because I do think that's one of the myths that has gone away largely.

I think most people have now realized here.

Well, actually there's more infrastructure being built and the range is getting better and more people are able to get it at home.

So I don't think that's something I want to get into too much.

But I think that's a good point because I record an episode not around the technology, but partly around EVs with Rob cooling way back on season one, I think like the fourth episode or something like that.

Yeah, it was the one that sort of made me start thinking about electric.

Oh, there you go.

You're the second person.

So it's all your fault.

We were speaking beforehand how I'm a possibly a net negative for the industry, so maybe that was a bit of a positive, but it's but I remember back then me having genuine concerns around that, and rightly so.

You know, why shouldn't we have those concerns?

But I think it's interesting looking back three years ago and going, those concerns for me have gone now.

They're not there now.

Yes, some people still haven't, but I just find that interesting.

But I do want to move on again because I want to speak about this, I want to speak about the over the air updates, because this to me seems obvious, but it still was something I've never really considered.

Now, again, this isn't necessarily exclusive to EVs, but it's definitely primarily EVs and it's basically updating your car in it.

Like essentially what's by wi fi.

Yeah.

Not all EVs have it, just as not all combustion cars have it.

Mine doesn't, but my dad's does.

It's no different to when you log into your computer and it says you've got an update to install.

The difference is the car is smart enough to install the update for you.

Yeah.

What I do get on a relatively regular basis is a message pop up on the car screen saying we've updated our privacy policy in terms of conditions and you have to agree to them before you can continue to use the connected features.

So that's a form of over the air update.

The second generation of Hyundai and Kia electrics use over the air updates.

So whilst I have to, for example, to update my sat nav, I have to plug a USB drive into my computer, download it, plug it into the car and install it the way that I'm guessing you used to have to do on your Mini.

And it's a clear you're in now, isn't it?

Yeah.

No, say Ibiza.

Sorry, an Ibiza.

Okay, so the way that you'll have to do with that.

I know Blaine Walsh will get into his car one day and clip, install, because the car's downloaded, wipe and plugged in overnight.

And his is Ionic 5.

So the next generation of he and their electric vehicles.

I find this fascinating, I really do.

Just the idea of where we've come with technology, because it actually makes me a bit nervous, if I'm being honest, because I think of stuff like maps and sort of the infotainment side of it, which will be just quite nice little updates.

Then I know that sort of the higher spec stuff and obviously the more modern we get, they're bringing in stuff like AI and you know, ADAs that will be updated electronically and I don't know, I Think I've got this.

It's probably.

What do you call the fears that are that non rash, not rational phobia.

It's probably a phobia.

I've got that almost like my phone, when I do the iPhone update that everything's going to change one day.

Like most of the time when you do it, it's just a little subtle change.

But now and again when your iPhone updates, it's like, whoa, that's mental.

I've got a new phone.

I have this fear.

I haven't got electric car yet.

Obviously.

I have this fear that when I've got an electric car, one day I'll go in and I'll update and it'll be like a completely different car.

I get, I get what you're saying.

There are times that that can be a good thing.

Yes.

When Volkswagen first put out the ID range, the ID3 and the ID4, their infotainment system was absolutely slated.

It was awful.

They got it wrong with that.

If they could have updated that over the air, it would have saved a lot of disruption to learn to, to vehicle owners.

Tesla are a big one for over the air updates.

So was Fisker and now Fisker is an example of where it can be a problem if your cars rely on over the air updates.

What happens when the company that produces the updates goes bust?

So that's a concern with it, but generally it's, it's no different to your phone or your laptop or your Xbox or whatever your preferred game games console is.

It's something we're used to.

They're just applying it to cars and they are using it to bring us new features where they can.

Yeah.

In a lot of cars they're almost pre building in the hardware and then giving the new features that require hardware with a software update when they've got the software right, which is much better than it used to be.

When Vox first put out the Insignia, all the advertising included, you know, the system that spots the signs and displays the speed limits.

Yeah.

The first generation Signal was the first car to have that in Vauxhall's range.

But they couldn't get it working so they advertised a feature and then disabled it in all the cars.

That, that was old.

So these days they can sort of sneak it in as an update.

I'd be interested in your thoughts on this.

Maybe this is coming off topic slightly, but one of the things I've been talking a lot more this year in particular, because, let me rephrase.

I used to tell my learners or advise them to buy a cheaper car, you know, when they pass a test, buy a cheaper version, you know, reduce your insurance, all that kind of stuff and learn how to drive.

Then you know, off you go.

And this year I've changed my approach.

This year I'm like you want to essentially buy the most expensive car you can, you want to buy the safest car you can and generally the safer the car the more expensive it's going to be and the more expensive car the more tech it's usually going to have.

So I think a double sided question for you.

Firstly, would you agree with that approach that I take?

And, and secondly, do you think that as an industry we need to do more to promote this technology?

Not promote as in to showcase this technology and explain this technology so that when people do get the newer cars, which in my opinion they should be, they then better understand it.

My advice to new drivers, if they have the money to go for a newer car, then do it.

Because think of all the accidents you hear of for the new drivers.

A lot of these accidents would be avoided by the adas.

Systems are now fitted as standard to cars because most of them hit somebody from behind because they didn't break in time or drifted across a line and into a virgin, into a ditch or something like that, lane departure or automatic emergency braking.

They mitigate these incidents quite a lot.

If they don't have the money to go out and buy a car that have all their systems on it, my advice to them is to buy the least learner car you can think of.

When I was learning to drive I learned in a.

Well I learned in my instructors car of course, 15 diesel Clio.

But I owned a 1 litre Citroen AX debut Plus.

The plus must have been for the wheel trims because there was nothing else on this car.

Radio cassette, villa seats.

But it was a typical first car back then and my insurance was horrendous, I mean saying it now.

But this was 20 years ago, it was a lot of money.

One of my friends, we were studying the same things at the same sixth form.

We lived on the same postcode, we worked the same part time job at McDonald's.

He had a 2.5 liter turbocharged Volvo 850 estate as his first car and his insurance was 300 quid, £1,000 cheaper than mine because the algorithm that ran insurance didn't know what to make of it.

Basically it broke the algorithm and got really cheap insurance.

So if you think outside the box, if there's something where you find something where there's no data to tell the insurance company.

Ah, new drivers crash these a lot then.

Because the real barrier to entry to cars these days is the cost of insurance, not the cost of the car.

Yeah.

And do you think that we as instructors, as an industry or profession should be showcasing some of this technology more?

Yes.

Yeah.

Even if they go out and buy an old Snotter for their first car, it's likely within the next 10 years I'll be driving a car that's got all these features.

Yeah.

What you were saying about almost the technological reluctance to move to ev, a lot of it is because people don't know how to deal with the new EV features and things like that.

If we give them an understanding of how these features work now, even they're not going to use them on their first car, they're going to be more likely to choose a car that has these features for their second car, which is going to make them safer.

I want to finish off by asking you a few myths.

Oh, I like these.

Maybe touch on a couple of these throughout the recording.

But I asked AI for this.

I asked Microsoft co pilot, I said what are the top five myths around evs?

So this is what he said to me and I'll say the myth and I'll let you respond however you deem fit.

So the first one that came up was evs are actually worse for the environment.

Okay.

There are ways in which they can be worse for the environment.

They are more carbon intensive to produce than a combustion car.

However, the most recent data I've seen says about 50,000 miles.

The carbon savings of operating it have offset the additional carbon cost of producing it.

And that's constantly going down as the grid becomes more renewables based.

The last coal fired power station in the uk, Ratcliffe on saw shut down last week.

We no longer have any coal in our domestic power mix.

So that number will have moved because we're no longer churning out carbon.

If you're a high miler, it's even less of a, even less of a truth if you are the type of person I once bought as a part exchange.

It was like a 15 year old Corsa that had been owned by little old lady from new and it less than 10,000 miles.

Yeah.

Her buying an electric Corsa will do a lot more damage to the environment than her buying a petrol one.

For most other people it balances out and then once it's Balanced out, it goes positive.

I like that so much like we were talking or the opposite of what we were talking about before.

With me, it starts out as a net negative and then moves on to a net positive.

The opposite of me.

I will point out.

I did say that I still think that you are a net positive.

I'm debating.

I'm still debating.

I haven't decided yet.

All right, so next one that threw up was.

And we kind of touched on this, but I'll let you comment it again.

EV batteries are unreliable and need frequent replacement.

EV batteries are incredibly reliable, with a few exceptions, one of them being actually my car.

My car is, I believe, probably about two months too young to have been part of the massive program of high voltage battery replacements that he and they did on Kona Electrics because there was a defect in manufacturing the battery.

So they've had to replace them.

But they've been done under warranty.

The vast majority of users of electric vehicles, their batteries be covered in warranty for the majority of their use, even if it fails out of warranty.

The difference between a battery and an engine is usually it'll be one cell that fails and you can go to a specialist and get that one cell replaced.

You can't get one cylinder replaced on an engine.

If you, if you crack a cylinder, you crack the entire engine out to put a new one in.

EVs are too expensive.

I agree 100%, although even that is going the other way now.

We're reaching price parity on used cars.

It was reached a while ago and it's now actually cheaper to buy a used EV than it is to buy the used combustion version.

The used car market has been less eager in the uptake of electric vehicles in the new car market.

But even on new cars, the, the new Vauxhall Frontera.

Did you know the Frontera name was coming back?

Nope.

No.

Vauxhall Frontera is coming back next year.

And the electric costs the same as the manual.

Oh, there you go, I suppose with that.

Same as anything new.

You know, when you get new, it's going to be more expensive.

But then as that technology moves on, it's going to come down in price because they learn how to manufacture it, more people buy it, all that kind of stuff.

But there's economies of scale and demand as well.

So as more people are buying electric vehicles because we've still got the wave of people buying their first electric car, but we've reached the point now where we've got people that are buying their second electric car at the same time.

And people that are buying their third electric car and people that bought a G whiz that are buying their sixth electric car that have been electric.

You know, tree hugging eco mentalist that all of us aren't reported to be.

I'm not, I.

I'm not.

If I win the lottery, I'm buying a V8 as a spare car.

But there is now more people out there buying the cars, which means it's cheaper to produce them.

They're buying 100,000 batteries rather than 10,000.

So the batteries are cheaper.

100,000 motors rather than 10,000.

The motors are cheaper, which is bringing the cost down.

I must admit, you've spoke a lot of sense today.

But the thing that's going to stick with me is tree hugging environmentalists.

We'll see how many complaints we get.

It's fine.

And then there aren't enough charging stations.

Depends where in the country you are.

It depends where in the city you are.

As I said before, I am in Sheffield.

If I over the Meda hall side of Sheffield, I have got so many charges that I never need to drop below 99%.

If I am at the side of the city that I live in, there are very few around me.

And some of the ones that here have been installed for over a year and still haven't been turned on.

However, we're at the point now where we don't need.

We've got a lot more chargers.

There are now many more chargers than there are petrol pumps.

But we've got to the point now where we don't need necessarily as many chargers.

Because I mean, the new Volkswagen ID7, not an instructor car, it is an absolute coach, it's huge.

But the new ID 7 can do, I believe it's about 580 kilometers on a charge, which is about 450 miles.

Yeah.

So this is comparable to the diesel version for most people that would be charging every couple of weeks, once every couple of weeks.

About 50% of the country can, as I do, charge at home.

So those people don't need necessarily to use the public charging, except for on special events, going away for Christmas or holiday.

So there is more than enough infrastructure out there now to support the needs of the network.

And the fifth myth is my example, the prime example, my theory, the prime example of myths, because that myth was there aren't enough charging stations.

And this myth is that charging stations are always empty.

How there can't be enough stations, but the ones that are always empty is completely opposite.

So it doesn't really make any sense.

I'm not going to make you answer that one.

But is there anything else ev wise you would like to talk about today?

I'm surprised you didn't bring up the myth about electric cars catching fire.

I was ready to handle that one quite handily.

You know what?

I don't think that it's actually one of my pet hates is that one because I don't think it needs addressing.

I think it's one of the things where even though if you talk about it and talk about in a sensible way, people aren't going to listen and I shouldn't say people, the people with the being a bonnet aren't going to listen.

They're just going to use it as excuse the phone, you know, stalk the flames.

But it's that, what was it, 25 to 30 people die every year in in car fires.

Not one of them has been in an EV.

There's something like 25 vehicle fires per hundred thousand vehicles.

For electric vehicles it's a lot higher for.

I mean look at the Ferrari 458 when that first came out, most of them caught fire.

I exaggerate slightly.

I don't want to get Terry sued by Ferrari.

But they did have a problem with the significant number relative to the number they produced.

Catching fire.

Trucks catch fire all the time.

Just look at the name.

You drive an internal combustion engine vehicle, you deliberately set fire to a part of your car to make it work.

I, I don't do you know, I do get it.

It's a media thing and look, I will just clarify it all.

Nick's opinions are not necessarily my own, but I know my opinions that not so not necessarily Nick's, but it's a media thing because when a car catches fire, if someone dies in it, it is not reported.

It just isn't.

But I guarantee you the first time someone dies in an EV car in a fire that's going to be reported everywhere and it'll be put across.

It's a fault of the ev.

The one thing.

And you might be able to expand on this more than me actually but the one thing that I am aware of that is a problem potentially more is putting the fire out.

Oh yes.

My understanding is that EVs are actually safer.

They're less likely to get caught on fire.

They're easier to get out of in that situation.

But putting the fire out is harder.

Yes.

The.

If you get the fire that gets to the battery, the thermal runaway that can happen there.

I mean I'm not an expert in fire.

But if the battery catches fire, that could be incredibly difficult to extinguish, which is why a lot of recovery firms are now, you know, the roll on, roll off skips that you see on the back of lorries all over the place.

They're basically buying them, filling them with water and dumping the car in that.

Right.

So, yeah, if your electric vehicle catches fire, they're going to write it off to put it out.

This is pure and simple.

But the statistical chances of your electric vehicle catching fire are so much lower than it is in pretty much any other type of vehicle.

And you're right about the media thing.

The problem is electric vehicles have a.

Have a label that can be attacked and this is not going to be universally well received.

It's the same as smart motorways.

Smart motorways have a label that can be attacked.

If you look at some of the collision data compared to normal motorways, they're actually safer in terms of the number of deaths per mile.

Okay, now, no number of deaths per mile is acceptable unless that number is very round, just.

Just a zero.

But they are safer in terms of the number of deaths or significant injuries per mile than standard motorways.

But they've got a label so they can be attacked.

And it's the same with EVs, and it's the same with anything that has a label.

I mean, we see it all the time.

You know, someone will post a picture on social media, car fire, and then someone else will comment and say, oh, I bet it's an ev.

And all of a sudden it becomes an ev, even if it isn't.

But aside from the, the bus in Scotland, the electric bus in Scotland that Harry caught fire, which was a diesel bus in Bolton.

There you go.

So aside from the one topic that I specifically didn't want to talk about today, is there anything else you'd like to cover?

I think we've given a relatively good covering, haven't we?

I'm glad we spoke today.

I did want to cover the technology on the reason.

There's more we can go into, obviously, but I don't want to keep you for too long, but do you want to take a moment just to tell people where they can find you if they want any more?

Nick Smith.

Goodness, yeah, you can find me on all social medias.

I am at Steelcity Drive or you can go to RPS dm.co.uk where pretty much everything I do is on their driving school.

Some of the podcasting that I do, which I need to get back into, and some of my websites, graphics and photography work on there as well.

So I'll put links for that in the show notes.

But I'm presuming the things people can get from you, your podcasting, your photography websites and if someone wants to learn how to fire point your things from a long distance, they can come to you as well.

They can indeed.

They need to come to Derbyshire for it, but I can help them out there.

Well, thank you for joining me today, Nick.

It's been been an eye opener for me.

I really enjoyed it.

Thank you for your time.

Thank you.

So a big thank you to Nick Smith for joining me today.

Really fascinating discussion.

I'm sure you'll agree there was a.

Lot of stuff that I'd looked up.

Beforehand and it's interesting that when you get someone on that knows the topic.

Well, doesn't matter how much research you.

Do, they can answer you.

And yeah, he was running ring charm.

In a good way at points.

But yeah, fascinating hearing the differences and.

You know, just finding out more about evs and, and you know, the some of the new myths that have come up, some of the old miss that are stayed, but also just some of the technology that's available in them and not just evs but all modern cars.

So yeah, again, big thank you to Mick and also thank you to my drive time for sponsoring Season nine.

My drive time is a cracking resource.

Definitely want to be checking them out.

Mydrivetime.co.uk super grateful that we're getting sponsors of caliber of my drive time to come along and support the season and I'm grateful for them for helping me out in this way.

So I would encourage you all to go and check them out and especially if you're a PDI because you get free access until you qualify.

Definitely worth checking out again.

Mydrivetime.co.uk but if you want to improve other aspects of being an instructor, then you want to improve things like coaching or building a better business or even getting some help with your mental health.

Sign up to Instructor Podcast Premium.

There's a whole host of content over there to help you become an Even more awesome ADI and you can find that at www.the instructorpodcast.com but for now, let's just keep raising standards.

The Instructor Podcast with Terry Cook, talking with leaders, innovators, experts in game changers about what drives them.