Dr. Sofia Pertuz spent 25 years in higher education before realizing the skills she'd been using her entire career — coaching, training, building systems, facilitating hard conversations — were exactly what she should be doing on her own. In this episode, Sofia and I talk about the long road from resident assistant to associate VP and dean of students, the burnout she didn't have a name for, pivoting through the nonprofit world and Billie Jean King Enterprises, and what it finally took to bet on herself. Plus, she's revealing something publicly for the first time on this show.

We dig into why the things that come most naturally to us are often the last things we recognize as valuable — and what happens when you finally flip that switch.

About Dr. Sofia B. Pertuz:

Dr. Sofia B. Pertuz is a certified executive coach, consultant, and workplace culture strategist who partners with leaders and mission-driven organizations to strengthen culture, performance, and leadership capacity. As Founder of Mainstream Insight, she designs executive coaching engagements, leadership development programs, and team retreats grounded in values alignment and organizational growth. Sofia’s career spans senior leadership roles at Billie Jean King Enterprises, The Jed Foundation, and Hofstra University, where she advanced leadership pathways, workforce engagement, and organizational resilience. A bilingual facilitator and international speaker, Sofia leads transformative conversations on leadership, cultural identity, organizational change, and LGBTQ+ advocacy in both English and Spanish. She holds a PhD from Seton Hall University, serves on nonprofit boards, and is certified as an ICF Professional Certified Coach, Certified Diversity Executive®, and certified practitioner of Intercultural Development Inventory ®, Everything DiSC® and CliftonStrengths®.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/sofiabautistapertuz/

https://www.instagram.com/sofiabpertuzphd

Show Notes:

(00:00) Teaser + Intro

(05:00) What Sofia wanted to be growing up — and the secret audition her mom never knew about

(10:00) How a raffle ticket explains the curse of competence

(14:00) 25 years in higher ed — from RA at 22 to associate VP and dean of students

(17:00) The weight of life-and-death decisions on campus

(21:00) Getting recruited out of academia and discovering what freedom feels like

(24:00) The standup comedy class — and why trying something totally new matters

(27:00) From Jed Foundation to Billie Jean King Enterprises

(34:00) Seeing the DEI backlash coming — and pivoting early

(39:00) The moment she decided to bet on herself

(42:00) Quitting, grief, and why she wasn't ready to talk about it until now

(45:00) A first-time public announcement: Sofia wrote a book

(49:00) The change implementation model she keeps coming back to in coaching

(54:00) Earning your freedom with discipline

(56:00) Her mom, Avon, Tupperware — and why "hustle" isn't the right word

I call you my quitting doula.

2

Maricella Herrera: I love it

3

Sofia Pertuz: because it

was not an easy decision

4

Maricella Herrera: Have you

ever felt like the script you're

5

following doesn't quite fit anymore?

6

Then you're in the right place.

7

I'm Maricella Herrera and I started.

8

Shit I just quit my job after walking

away from a job I thought to find me?

9

Forget the highlight reels.

10

Here.

11

We talk about the messy middle, the

doubts, the detours, and the chaos

12

that come with rethinking who we are.

13

Because the truth is, it was

never just about quitting a job.

14

It was about questioning

everything I thought I knew.

15

Hi everyone.

16

Welcome to Should I just quit my job?

17

I'm Marela and I'm so happy you're here.

18

Thanks for taking some time this week to

listen to my conversation with someone.

19

I had been wanting to come on

the show for a really long time.

20

So today I'll meet Dr.

21

Sophia Perus.

22

She's someone I met at Elevate years ago.

23

She was at that point at

Billie Jean King Enterprises.

24

now is doing her own entrepreneurial

ventures as a coach, as a

25

consultant, and honestly as a culture

changer in many organizations.

26

She was already doing a lot of that

through her job, but also on the side

27

as a consultant and a coach, but.

28

The reason I wanted her to

come was a, I really like her.

29

I've liked Sophia since I met her.

30

I think she's someone that

I've learned a lot from.

31

We have had some great conversations

and she's incredibly smart.

32

She was in academia for years and in

nonprofits and she's had like this

33

very interesting experience and she's a

Latina, so we have that in common too.

34

I remember we used to

see each other a lot.

35

She would host the Elevate online

community spaces that were called holding

36

space for Latinas, and I would join

those and get to see her there, but.

37

When I left Elevate, we stayed in touch

and Sophia for some time was thinking

38

about what she was going to do next.

39

She knew she wanted to do something

with everything she was already

40

doing, like with her consulting.

41

She had created this group for Latinas.

42

She was doing so many things and wanted

to move down that entrepreneurial path.

43

There was something stopping her and.

44

I had many a conversations with her about

my own decision to quit my own journey.

45

I know she's, she's been one

of the biggest supporters of

46

this show, even last year.

47

I think one of the moments that made

me smile the most, the end of last

48

year was that Sophia sent me her

Spotify wrapped and my show was on it,

49

and it, it just really made my day.

50

So she's awesome and we connected more,

I think, through this process of her.

51

Figuring out what was next for her and

me having taken the leap and left my job.

52

I'm glad that I've helped people see

what the opportunity is on the other

53

side, even if it's scary, even if it's

confusing, even if sometimes it's hard.

54

Anyway, we talk about.

55

Her time in academia, the changes

that have happened in the diversity,

56

equity, and inclusion landscape.

57

We talk about her decision to

go the entrepreneurial route.

58

We talk also about our gifts and the

natural abilities that we all have and

59

sometimes don't see, because for us,

they're so natural and how we should

60

be leaning into those even why not?

61

Monetizing those 'cause I mean, what

is very easy and natural for me might

62

not be easy and natural for someone

else, and it might be a skill they need.

63

I hope you enjoyed this conversation.

64

I had a lot of fun talking to her, and

I would love to know what you think.

65

Send me an email, quit

my job pod@gmail.com

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and I'll see you next time.

67

Bye.

68

You have listened to this podcast,

so you know what I'm gonna ask you?

69

What did you wanna be

when you were growing up?

70

I've thought about this.

71

I wanted to be all kinds of things,

but I would say if I had to pick

72

the analytical answer after living

life for 52 plus years, I wanted

73

to be a teacher, an educator.

74

Sofia Pertuz: I've always wanted to.

75

Second in my children of five that grew

up together, I have a brother and sister

76

that are older than us from my father's

first marriage, but the five of us,

77

I was always the teacher setting up.

78

Like teaching sessions and

anything we were doing.

79

I was the one kind of like taking

the charge and leading my younger

80

siblings, which is funny 'cause

my older sister ended up actually

81

being a real teacher, like a school

teacher, high school teacher.

82

And I was a teacher,

like a faculty member.

83

But that wasn't my like

full time profession.

84

So you said that was

the analytical answer.

85

After looking back, what

was the emotional answer?

86

What would've been the thing

that you were like when.

87

I wanted to be an actress

because I thought it was so cool.

88

And I actually went to auditions.

89

My mom never knew When I was in

high school, I actually took the

90

train all the way to Queens and

went on some weird little audition

91

and I was always short and chubby.

92

So the lady was like, you can probably

do some stick and stand commercial

93

or some other cleaning products.

94

And after that I was so disappointed.

95

I was like, I don't wanna do that.

96

I dunno what else I wanna do, but

I also wanted to be an attorney.

97

I worked at a law firm while I was in high

school and college, and then I saw how

98

they were and very mean to each other.

99

Working late hours, always

there and I'm like, okay.

100

I didn't become a lawyer, but

I still did that later, working

101

late hours being on call 24 7 in

my different jobs in higher ed.

102

So I was like, oh yeah, you gave

up the big money over there so

103

you could be in in academia so

you can work late hours and yeah.

104

With mean people Maybe.

105

Hopefully not so many,

but let's be honest.

106

Most were nice.

107

Yeah.

108

Yeah.

109

Them were pretty nice, but

some of them weren't mean.

110

Yeah.

111

But yet teacher, you weren't

necessarily like a teacher.

112

Teacher, you were faculty.

113

You went to academia.

114

So like it does make sense.

115

That's why it was the analytical answer.

116

Looking back, I guess it was like if

I gave it the bigger pictures, like an

117

educator, I've always done some kind

of training or telling someone how to

118

do something and setting up systems

for people, learning different things.

119

So I guess that's what higher Ed does.

120

That's where I grew up in my

first 25 years of my career.

121

And even when I left, I was

still doing some kind of

122

educational teaching of some sort.

123

And you still are.

124

Yeah.

125

Yeah.

126

We just call it training and

development, leadership development,

127

team development, coaching.

128

Maricella Herrera: That's one of

the things I realized when I started

129

teaching, when I started like

actually going to co like the college

130

and being a professor that like,

yes, this is what I'd like to do.

131

It's not surprising to me that I

like to teach and that I like what

132

I'm doing because I liked coaching.

133

Building my team up and trying to

explain things and I'd like planning

134

conferences, like all of this like

content part that I've always enjoyed,

135

except now it's very specific.

136

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah, so you've probably

been doing it your whole life.

137

But the thing that's different about

teaching, it's like finite, right?

138

You have a specific thing

you're trying to say, you're

139

teaching, you have a plan for it.

140

You have a end and a beginning,

a beginning and an end.

141

But when you're teaching in the workplace,

I would say it's like an ongoing,

142

sometimes you don't even know what

you need to teach until somebody like

143

doesn't do something or does it the way

that maybe they weren't supposed to.

144

I was at an event recently and.

145

It was like a raffle ticket thing, and

somebody's daughter was running it.

146

She's a high schooler, and she starts

handing everybody their tickets and

147

I say, wait, I have both tickets.

148

I can't win if one of

them is not in the basket.

149

And the mom was like, oh my goodness.

150

I, I told her to run the raffles

and I didn't realize that.

151

I had to explain to her, give the ticket

to one person and then keep the coupon

152

or whatever, so that when you call it.

153

One person has the actual winning ticket

and you have the ticket in the basket.

154

So it was like a moment of clarity.

155

I was like, oh, she didn't realize

she needed to explain that because

156

we've been running tickets,

raffle tickets like decades.

157

Me and her we're the same age.

158

Maricella Herrera: So it's funny, it's,

but it's very much what you're saying

159

about the workplace and I think even

now, I talk to people, to other people

160

who are trying to do their own thing.

161

They're stuck on stuff that maybe to

me is very natural and very, oh yeah, I

162

know how to do this, and then I'm stuck

on stuff That for them is very natural.

163

They know how to do it, but we never.

164

Realize that like we take it for

granted, just like the tickets, right?

165

Like you take it for granted

before actually thinking through

166

of, oh wait, these are things

that someone else might not know.

167

These are things that I

still need to explain.

168

These are things that I need to

be much more clear about just

169

because we take it for granted.

170

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

171

So once you know something, you, you could

unknow it later, but you forget things.

172

But for the most part, once you learn

how to do it, you forget what something

173

was like, how maybe what it felt like

your first day of school, your first

174

day at work, what it felt like to learn

where the bathroom is, what mm-hmm.

175

Where to sit, how to open

a file in the computer.

176

You just know how to do stuff.

177

So trying to explain and teach it to

somebody else is such a different moment

178

of clarity or realization, I would say.

179

Maricella Herrera: What

brought you to academia?

180

Sofia Pertuz: I went to

college and I would say I never

181

left for a couple decades.

182

So I was an ra, a resident assistant, and

I was a leader in my undergraduate time.

183

And I remember having these mentors

who really helped me out, taught

184

me how to interview for jobs,

taught me how to help other people.

185

And then as a resident assistant I

was doing that people would come to

186

me with all their issues, anything

they need help with, and there was

187

something I just loved about that.

188

So I remember asking my hall

director, how can I do what you do?

189

She is like, oh, you have to get

your master's degree and you have

190

to go and start as an entry level

residence hall director or assistant

191

hall director, a graduate assistant.

192

And then from there there's a path in

higher ed, specifically student affairs.

193

There's another path for faculty for sure.

194

But I was a, I did the path,

I did the grad assistantship,

195

got my master's degree.

196

I did the residence hall director, and I

think back on that, I'm like 22 years old.

197

I was running a building of

350 undergraduate students and

198

supervising eight Resident assistants

just like me, not that far from

199

my time as a resident assistant.

200

And I remember having these meetings

with the students just to talk to

201

'em about disciplinary issues where

if they were making poor decisions,

202

they weren't bad students, they were

students that made bad decisions.

203

So learning all that in my 22 years

old, and I remember that and thinking

204

there's all these safety issues I had to

keep in mind there were all these 24 7.

205

Things that would happen in college

where either it was an emergency or some

206

other thing came up in, in the physical

building, running a physical building.

207

Mm-hmm.

208

Working with maintenance, making

sure that it's clean, and I'm

209

like, wow, who does that at 22?

210

But that's how I got into academia.

211

That was my first official job

and usually in in residence life,

212

student life and student activities.

213

You take different paths.

214

You either stay in the residential

part of things or you shift over

215

to student conduct, you shift

over to student activities.

216

So somewhere along the whole 25 years, I

shifted to almost every aspect of student

217

affairs and eventually as you move up,

you have those areas reporting to you.

218

So my last role in higher ed, the

toughest job I'll ever love was associate

219

Vice president and dean of students.

220

I was on call 24 7.

221

And all the areas that reported

to me were all the things I

222

had done as in different roles.

223

So residence life, student recreation,

intramural sports, student activities,

224

student engagement, diversity, equity

and inclusion, fraternity, sorority life.

225

So all the ways that students get

involved and get excited about living and

226

working and getting involved on campuses.

227

So that's, that was my last job.

228

And then before I got recruited outta

academia, I never thought I would leave.

229

I thought I was gonna

be in higher ed forever.

230

You do all the path.

231

As at an assistant vice president,

associate vice president, the

232

next step is vice president.

233

And if you're lucky and you work hard and

you stay in it, maybe president, at least

234

my mother thought that she said, you're

not president, "tu no eres presidenta?",

235

not president.

236

I'm like, that's not how that works.

237

You gotta other things.

238

But I did the PhD.

239

They were like, how do you get,

how do you move up in the path?

240

You have to get a PhD in higher

education management, leadership

241

and policy or something like that.

242

And that's what I did too.

243

But I'm not in academia

technically anymore.

244

I'm adjacent I still teach

but I didn't follow the path

245

Maricella Herrera: It's

a lot of responsibility.

246

Like thinking of it when

you were 22 and all of that.

247

Like it's crazy, honestly.

248

Yeah.

249

Yeah.

250

But the idea of commitment of the

studies, the having tried every single

251

thing, the PhD, that because you are so

committed to this path because you're

252

so, like, this is what I'm looking at.

253

Or you know, to be president eventually

254

Sofia Pertuz: it's not too late.

255

Maybe someday it's too late.

256

Maricella Herrera: So you said

you got recruited outta it.

257

Is that.

258

Why you left?

259

Do you think you would've just

stayed and continue that path?

260

Sofia Pertuz: I think if I

did, I'm not sure if I would

261

be healthy and alive right now.

262

To be very honest with you.

263

It was a really tough job to have because

you're on call 24 7, and I remember having

264

to have really tough conversations with

the students with your direct reports.

265

I had to let go of people not doing

what they're supposed to do and

266

make some changes to reorganize

staffing, and that was hard.

267

I didn't realize how difficult

that was until I was in that

268

role with a lot of responsibility

and budgetary responsibility.

269

But there were aspects.

270

I absolutely loved the student engagement

part, the activities, but I think the

271

parts that were hard was realizing that

you had those hard decisions to make.

272

And I lost sleep at night sometimes

over some of those decisions.

273

Especially expelling students that

were doing things that they were

274

really not supposed to do or hurting

others, or just seeing some of the

275

life conditions, human condition of

hurting each other, but also not feeling

276

treated well myself in some moments.

277

I've been back to the campus.

278

Sometimes I won't name

it, but I feel some like.

279

Physical trauma sometimes

and mental trauma.

280

When I feel like, oh, that's when so and

so yelled at me 'cause they were thinking

281

that I did this thing or that thing.

282

And just feeling like, while I felt

like I was doing a great job and I

283

was navigating the campus environment

and, and in it, I was all in it.

284

There were just moments when as a Latina,

as a woman of color, I felt like I needed

285

to just work harder or really prove myself

or put myself out there in ways that

286

stretched me beyond just being on call.

287

Just the regular job itself is

hard for anyone who's ever done

288

a job like a dean of students.

289

But then on top of that, the layers

of handling some of the sticky

290

situations and racial tension,

things like that, that it was heavy.

291

It was heavy sometimes there

was a lot of emotional, a lot.

292

Yeah, it was a lot.

293

Maricella Herrera: I was thinking you

were saying about hard decisions and in

294

my mind I kept thinking, well, anywhere

you go, as you grow and as you get more

295

senior, you have to make hard decisions

like that you can't get away from.

296

But then you started talking about

students and the human condition and

297

Ooh, that I can see how it would be.

298

Elizabeth: Even harder.

299

There's a different aspect, not just of

the making hard decisions for your team

300

or for the company or whatever it is.

301

It's making hard decisions for

all of this other people that

302

you're gonna be impacting.

303

Yeah, kids many of them.

304

Yeah.

305

Sofia Pertuz: If you

have a regular 9, to 5.

306

I would say in corporate.

307

Technically, unless you're, there's

something financial or something else

308

that you're in charge of or building or

something that you know does run 24 7,

309

you can go home and say, you know what?

310

It can wait till tomorrow.

311

No one's dying here.

312

When you live and work at a

campus that it's live 24 7, it's

313

possible someone lives and dies.

314

I don't mean to be dramatic in

this moment, but you're really

315

literally having some life and death.

316

Conversations in some

moments, and that's not easy.

317

That's hard.

318

Yeah.

319

Maricella Herrera: That is

a whole other ball game.

320

I remember talking to someone who

was a dean of students while I was

321

actually there and, and I talked to

her on the podcast after she left.

322

She had left, and for her it was like

the school was her whole identity,

323

like she had been so for so many years.

324

It was just this.

325

I'm understanding it to a deeper

level as you're talking about it,

326

because there's not just the fact

that you're embedded into it for and

327

are such a core part of it, but that.

328

You are dealing with

all of these things too.

329

Sofia Pertuz: Funny you should say that.

330

Around that time I got, I did get

recruited by a nonprofit for a role

331

in a nonprofit organization, and I

remember meeting them all and really.

332

Excited about what it was 'cause it was

still connected to higher education.

333

It was working with more

campuses around mental health

334

support and suicide prevention.

335

So to me it was a really important topic.

336

It was meaningful.

337

When I met the people, the

CEO and all the other folks, I

338

was like, these people get it.

339

They get it.

340

They're just really cool.

341

Amazing people still connected

and it was an opportunity to, one,

342

not be on call 24 7 2, work with.

343

A whole network and system

on how to support students.

344

Where if I'm just one person trying

to do it on one campus with the

345

system on campus, I'm just one part

of that, that one campus system.

346

But when you're working as a consultant,

it's almost like you're external to it.

347

You're making recommendations,

suggestions, and if they don't take

348

it, you go, okay, you know what?

349

We've given you the framework, the

system, when you are the one asking

350

to implement it, and you know it's the

right thing to do, and you have the

351

system that you're trying to influence.

352

You, you take it personally.

353

Yeah.

354

So the identity part becomes so much

more hurtful when you're like, I'm trying

355

to create something here, and you're

like, okay, I'm not the only one here.

356

There's a whole system of all of us.

357

That was when I actually changed my bio.

358

In my bio.

359

I was Sophia B.

360

Pertuz is the associate vice

president, Dean of students.

361

She was the associate director,

whatever, whatever my title was

362

the way I would start my bio.

363

That was the first time because

the title was so different.

364

The first part of my title when I

first got there was senior advisor,

365

which I was like, wow, I love that.

366

It's not connected to, you don't even

know what level in the organization is.

367

Right.

368

Until they, they changed my title later,

the Chief Diversity and Inclusion Officer,

369

and I changed my bio for the first time.

370

To Sophia B.

371

Pertuz is an educator, consultant.

372

I put other descriptors of me.

373

Then my title later, because I figured,

you know what, I think people won't

374

even understand what that title is.

375

So I was like, let me just name

the bigger picture of what I am,

376

a leader, an educator, et cetera.

377

Maricella Herrera: You did it

earlier than many of us do it because

378

for me it was also, it was a big,

I talk about it in the podcast.

379

It was a big moment of.

380

What am I?

381

What am I like?

382

What do I do?

383

Still to this moment?

384

Sometimes I'm like, what do I do?

385

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

386

How do I even introduce myself anymore?

387

I don't even know.

388

I'm so many different things.

389

Maricella Herrera: I like that

you did that on the early side.

390

Sofia Pertuz: It was empowering.

391

Maricella Herrera: Yeah, I'm sure.

392

I'm sure you were recruited

by the nonprofit that was

393

the Jed Foundation, right?

394

Sofia Pertuz: Yes.

395

Maricella Herrera: Yeah, but

still, you had such a long

396

tenure where you were that.

397

I'm wondering what made you want to

pursue that opportunity, besides the kind

398

of burnout that you're talking about.

399

Was there something about the idea, not

just of working with the systems, but like

400

nonprofit space or something else that

was calling you to do something different?

401

Sofia Pertuz: Well, definitely I

didn't label like burnout at the

402

time, but I realized that when I

got that recruitment, it was through

403

LinkedIn and I got the outreach and

I was like, huh, this is interesting.

404

I wasn't actively looking if I saw

interesting opportunities and I

405

thought my next role is gonna be a

vice president of student affairs and

406

when something opens up, I'll see.

407

But there was something about the idea of.

408

I didn't even know at the time what

freedom was gonna look like until I did

409

take the job and going back and forth

trying to figure out if it's the right

410

fit and, and I had to move and all that.

411

But once I started the position,

the hours were normal, like

412

just nine to five, right?

413

Let's say nine to five.

414

I think it was like eight 30 to four 30.

415

But let's say it's a 95, 9

to five job, and I'm like.

416

What do I do with myself after five?

417

I didn't, I was suddenly very open

and had time to take care of myself.

418

I started going to the gym and of

course, lemme mention this, I'm a

419

mom and at the time I had kids in

school and I was so used to having my

420

partner who was a stay at home dad.

421

Be the lead for taking care of them

and their most basic day-to-day needs

422

that I got so used to that life that

when I was in a normal job and I could

423

come back and contribute to being

part of my kids' lives in a normal

424

good way, I was like, wow, this is

what, like parenting is real for real.

425

Wow.

426

Amazing.

427

So I think that was

also a motivator for me.

428

I realized as my kids were getting

older, they're not getting any younger

429

and neither am I, and I wanna be

part of their lives, their day-to-day

430

lives, and they're leaving me soon.

431

Like right now, my daughter's living

in her best life with her first job.

432

She moved out.

433

My son's in college, so I'm

technically an empty nester right now.

434

And I'm like, thank God I had that moment

in time that I was able to really enjoy

435

them and go to their events and not be

like, oh, oh, I'm on call, or I have to go

436

to this campus event, so no, I can't come

to your thing, whatever they were having.

437

So now when I took that job,

it was suddenly life first.

438

Job because that was also the ethos of

the organization for a mental health org.

439

Of course, that was like, everyone

needs to take care of themselves.

440

Whatever you need to take

care of yourself is first.

441

You're first.

442

I never had that before in

my 25 years before that.

443

Maricella Herrera: It's crazy.

444

And I wanna note that you said, you

didn't call it burnout then, and

445

I would say, I don't think anyone

called working yourself to levels of.

446

way too much, butnout because

we didn't talk about burnout.

447

That's a relatively new,

relatively new concept.

448

It was what it was.

449

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

450

I'm an immigrant.

451

I'm Dominican.

452

I was born there, brought here when I

was a baby, and I don't think I could

453

have talked about being tired growing up.

454

That was not a thing.

455

If you were gonna sit down on the

couch and look like you're relaxing, my

456

mom would go find a broom real quick.

457

You need to, you need something to do.

458

Tu necesitas algo que hacer?

459

and hand us a broom.

460

Go clean something.

461

Go do something.

462

So right now I'm still struggling

with figuring out how to relax still.

463

Still, even with that shift in my career

at the time, I was still trying to

464

figure out how to have fun, add joy at

time for me, you see what I did, the

465

first thing I thought of being in my

kids' life, it wasn't like, oh, being

466

there for myself or doing stuff for me.

467

Maricella Herrera: Did you start

trying stuff that were more for you?

468

Sofia Pertuz: I did.

469

I did.

470

I have, okay.

471

So I have a bachelor's,

a master's, and a PhD.

472

Right.

473

So of course I'm gonna name all the

different things and I always keep going

474

in my education and get certification.

475

But one that I'm so proud

of and excited about is this

476

certificate I have on my wall.

477

I actually put it up, it's called

Standup University Graduate,

478

because I did a standup class

in, I'm thinking when was, oh.

479

I completed it the 15th

480

Wow.

481

So that was a year after I had been out

in the regular workplace, I would call it.

482

I wanted to figure out

what to do with myself.

483

I saw a sign in the library and I

was like, Hey, they have standup

484

classes it was really cool.

485

it was a comedy club in Belmore

where many famous people like

486

Kevin James, Ray Romano, Eddie

Murphy, have stood on that stage.

487

So there was something about

taking standup classes there and

488

it was like a regular course, like.

489

Eight weeks, three hours.

490

I was with a group of people.

491

We were helping each other create

materials, and then my graduation

492

class was on October 15th.

493

It's actually on YouTube right now.

494

Yeah.

495

You don't have to find that and

put the link in the show notes.

496

Yeah.

497

Yeah.

498

I was so proud of it because I never knew.

499

I think I'm funny, right?

500

Sometimes I thought I and my mom

used to always be like, "Tu crees

501

que tu eres comica" you think

you're funny because I was always

502

like that smart ass coming at her.

503

So I tried it and it was really fun.

504

It was different and the people

in the class were older than me,

505

younger than me, and it was just a

whole different group of people and

506

experienced that I had never done before.

507

Maricella Herrera: that I think is

the best way to get to know yourself,

508

like doing something so different.

509

That you might hate.

510

I tried improv.

511

I thought I was gonna be great at improv.

512

Turns out I'm not, and I hate it, but

I learned so much more about myself.

513

You learned that you And I did

my, yeah, and I did it in a moment

514

like that, in a moment where I was

like, what do I do with this time?

515

How long did you stay at the nonprofit?

516

Sofia Pertuz: Three years

517

Maricella Herrera: and you're

still working with them though?

518

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah, I still work

with them, which is really cool.

519

I feel like I always say to them

like, I never left because I got

520

a really amazing opportunity in

521

There was a racial reckoning after

George Floyd was murdered and there

522

were companies now that had not

focused on their diversity, equity,

523

and inclusion efforts, and were

thinking about what should we be doing?

524

What could we be doing?

525

And I had been doing that my

whole career also in higher ed.

526

The other cool thing about higher

ed, I'm gonna, I'm always gonna

527

give higher ed its flowers.

528

The experiences that you have along

the way and the things that you get

529

to do is such a big variety of things.

530

And one of them was

diversity and inclusion.

531

I realized when I joined this an

organization for professional women, that

532

not everyone does everything in their job.

533

That there are all these specialists and

people who do just very specific things.

534

So I learned quickly that.

535

I could be doing consulting or working

with people or sharing some of the

536

knowledge that I had along the way of

how to set up employee resource groups,

537

how to set up dialogue groups, how to set

up educational efforts and programming

538

within a company, within an organization.

539

I've been doing hit my whole life.

540

That's what we do in higher ed.

541

We train each other, we create

these curriculums, and I was doing

542

that for some of my colleagues,

not for pay or anything just yet.

543

But when I did that, a few people

saw me presenting on how to center

544

diversity inclusion in your workplace,

how to think about different

545

audiences, that kind of thing.

546

And this woman who saw me said,

Hey, we're thinking of building a,

547

the inclusion and DEI consultancy.

548

We're working on that with some of

the companies that we consult with.

549

Are you interested in

helping us or joining us?

550

And that was Billie Jean King Enterprises.

551

That was absolutely an amazing opportunity

and even my CEO at Jed was like, oh,

552

you have to take this opportunity.

553

That's amazing.

554

She is an icon.

555

Lana and Billy Jean are like.

556

Such pioneers not just in the field of

tennis, but even beyond with women's

557

sports and really centering the

idea that there should be equality.

558

When I got that opportunity,

I couldn't say no.

559

I did it.

560

So I did leave Jet in June, 2021

and worked with Billie Jean King

561

Enterprises for another three years.

562

So it was like.

563

Three years and then three years with

Billy Jean King Enterprises before I, now

564

we get to the, should I just quit my job

part of the podcast when I decided to do

565

my own thing and I left in August of 2024.

566

Maricella Herrera: I wanna comment on

something that you were saying 'cause.

567

You're talking about all these things

you did in higher ed, and this goes back

568

to the, like, it's natural for us that

you had to realize that you could, that

569

this is something you've been doing and

you could do it as a consultancy, that

570

you could do it in a different way.

571

Yes.

572

I've been dealing with that because

I've been trying to build out some like

573

consulting offering and I was talking

to someone I used to work with and she's

574

like, well, you did, you did all those

things, but I didn't, I wasn't consulting.

575

You did all those things, like it doesn't

matter, but it's very hard to break it

576

out from the, this is just what I do.

577

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah, yeah.

578

Maricella Herrera: These are these like

great skills and assets and things I could

579

do in whatever other setting, whether it's

consulting, whether it's something else,

580

like there's just a mind, a switch that

you need to, that you need to turn on.

581

Sofia Pertuz: It is a switch.

582

'cause same thing with coaching.

583

I'm a coach now and I had been mentoring

and coaching my whole career, and it

584

wasn't until I hired a coach myself

where I was like, oh, I'm gonna pay

585

someone to help me think through some

of these big decisions, some of the

586

transitions that I made along my career.

587

I always had a coach that helped me

that I didn't realize at the time,

588

like it was an investment and I was

willing to make that investment.

589

But I didn't realize, hey, I

could become one of those people.

590

So I did go through the training, got

certified to be a coach, and it was

591

one of those moments of, I remember I

invested, so why wouldn't we put money

592

into the world and circulate it around and

give each other different opportunities.

593

So it's okay to charge, but

you're right, it's a switch.

594

I had to get a coach to help me think

through it's okay for you to charge

595

for the things that you know, even

though they come naturally to you.

596

Mm-hmm.

597

They're valuable to someone else.

598

And if you do it with integrity, you set

it up in a systematic way that someone

599

can know and actually get a result.

600

A transformation like I coach

people who are in transition.

601

I've changed fields.

602

I went from higher ed.

603

I've taught in the classroom.

604

I did the nonprofit sports and

corporate and now entrepreneurship.

605

So I'm like, how many more

switches are we gonna make?

606

I don't know what's next, but I

want, so I want retirement to be the

607

next transition, but I'm not ready.

608

I'm not there yet.

609

But I think that idea of it's okay

for people to pay you for your

610

knowledge and for your experience,

I'm now very okay with it.

611

Yeah, more than Okay.

612

Maricella Herrera: When you

got certified, did you think.

613

You were gonna become a coach

full-time at some point in your

614

life, or was it just, I wanna do

this because I'm doing this anyway,

615

so lemme just get the certification.

616

Sofia Pertuz: You wanna hear a secret?

617

That's not gonna be secret.

618

The reason I got Mike's coaching

certification is because I am sometimes

619

not a great listener, or I thought I

wasn't, and I remember thinking to myself.

620

Learning how to coach someone

officially means really being good at

621

listening and asking good questions

and centering them in the conversation.

622

And as a middle child, I would

love to present and talk a lot.

623

I realized if I'm actually gonna

consult and help people be a

624

coach, I probably should learn

what that looks like and means.

625

'cause I remember having, like I

said, great coaches that I were

626

like, wow, you really listened to me.

627

You were so great.

628

So when I got the certification and

went to the courses to do that, it was

629

amazing, which I learned about myself

and how I learned, I actually can listen.

630

Listen very attentively.

631

'cause my mind works very fast,

which is problematic for some people.

632

Mm-hmm.

633

Because I'm, they're already talking and I

think I already know what they're saying.

634

So I knew that was a dangerous part

of the way that I sometimes operate.

635

'cause my brain works quick.

636

What coaching certification classes taught

me was let people finish their thought.

637

'cause there might be some hidden

gem in there that you don't know.

638

You are not in that person's brain.

639

So it was pretty cool to go through

that and really learn a few new

640

skills, like really how to listen.

641

Maricella Herrera: But then it was

for you, like it was for you as

642

a skill that you wanted to build.

643

Not necessarily thinking, this is what

I'm gonna do for the rest of my life.

644

I'm always fascinated with when, because

I know a lot of people who have gotten

645

the coaching certification and I'm

always curious of what led them to it.

646

Okay.

647

So you were at Billie

Jean King for three years.

648

Yep.

649

And it was a rough time

too, like worldwide.

650

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah, it was already

a lot going on in the world.

651

It was a little past COVID, so the world

was just opening up when I started.

652

It was just beginning to be

whatever normal means that people,

653

Maricella Herrera: did

we ever come to normal?

654

Sofia Pertuz: I dunno if

there's ever been normal.

655

I think we had an idea of what

normal was for the longest time.

656

But yeah, it was a tough time.

657

A lot was happening in the world, but

I think a lot of companies were really

658

trying to genuinely figure it out.

659

Were really trying to

say, what did we miss?

660

What can we be doing to help

employees not lose it all the time?

661

I think some employers actually

didn't realize how many people

662

were suffering in the workplace.

663

Maricella Herrera: I think about

this moment in time that we're living

664

in right now versus what we were

living in kind of at that point.

665

When it comes to DEI specifically,

like I think after the murder of George

666

Floyd, like there was so much push.

667

Some of it genuine, some of it not truly.

668

Sofia Pertuz: We realize

now how not genuine,

669

Maricella Herrera: right, exactly.

670

And so I think that's where I was

going with it's, it's sad but also

671

like we are seeing the masks drop

672

Sofia Pertuz: come off.

673

Yes.

674

Literally the masks all

came off in the last year.

675

Definitely.

676

For sure.

677

Maricella Herrera: Are you still

working in that, in the DEI space?

678

Sofia Pertuz: I was thinking as you

shared, the masks were coming off.

679

I have this weird thing that I

can almost see like trends coming.

680

This is gonna sound strange, even leaving

higher ed, I left at a time that right

681

after I left a lot was happening in

higher ed that I was like, wow, I'm

682

glad I didn't have to work full time in

higher ed during the pandemic would've

683

been so, I dunno if I'd be alive.

684

Like I said, I just don't know.

685

Not with the level of burnout I

was feeling at the time, but I

686

feel like I also saw it coming.

687

When the world decided, okay, we're

going to make sure we're going to support

688

black-owned businesses only, or center,

that when we said we're going to make

689

sure we have diversity and inclusion

programming, and that's what we're doing,

690

and a lot of focus happened, I think

there were some people that were resentful

691

and didn't wanna see it and never did.

692

And were forced into it in

ways that it happened so fast

693

that I think I saw it coming.

694

I could see the faces.

695

I could see having done roles where

that was a primary part of my job.

696

I saw the people in the back

with their arms crossed and

697

like, wait till I get in charge.

698

I'm not gonna let this happen.

699

'cause I think we forgot to make sure

everyone was included in the conversation.

700

And there were some

people that were quiet.

701

We didn't see that 'cause we were so turbo

focused on le what do we need to change?

702

What do we, what paint

do we need to put on it?

703

What do we need to do to put the lipstick

on the pig to make this thing look good?

704

And it's, if you didn't already

have values and if you didn't

705

already have a place where

people want to be there and work.

706

Because if you have to have a conversation

in a workplace and say, oh, how do

707

we recruit more people of color?

708

How do we recruit more diversity?

709

You don't have to work that hard

if you're already a good place.

710

Maricella Herrera:

That's a very good point.

711

Sofia Pertuz: So you shouldn't

have to work so hard.

712

You should just be a good place that

knows how to tell people what advancement

713

looks like, what opportunity looks

like, what engagement looks like.

714

Anyway, all that to say, I don't

even know where we got to this

715

place, but I saw it coming and I

remember changing my title actually.

716

I was, when I was working at Village and

King Enterprises, I was managing director

717

for diversity, equity, and inclusion.

718

When I first there and then

I was like, you know what?

719

I think we need to expand by title

a little just to make sure that

720

we can stay marketable and ready.

721

So I changed it to inclusion

and leadership development.

722

Oh, smart.

723

That's what we were doing.

724

Right.

725

I was doing development my whole career

also in, in addition to inclusion.

726

And I think sometimes people didn't,

the DEI term for some people was

727

too much for them to understand

and grasp, especially if you are

728

someone that is never been excluded.

729

Yeah.

730

And you've never been in a

place of marginalization.

731

You don't even know what it means.

732

'cause you're like, what does that mean?

733

Doesn't, don't you enter every

space and everybody smile at you.

734

And it's, no, that's not the

experience for everybody.

735

Unfortunately that's not,

so I was able to pivot.

736

I pivoted pretty quickly and even in

this last year, some of what I was

737

consulting on with some of the nonprofits

I worked with was looking at the

738

language and making updates to remove

any words that creates barriers to any

739

federal funding coming through or any

adjacent organization, schools and other

740

places that could lose their funding

because of some of the mandates that

741

were coming out in the last year or so.

742

So.

743

While some people completely went out

of business, I would say I pivoted

744

and I was able to really think

about, okay, let's meet the moment.

745

Let's meet.

746

I was always like that anyway

throughout my whole career.

747

Let's meet the moment.

748

What do we need to shift?

749

What do we need to change to do what

is right for right now and not sit

750

on what was happening 10 years ago?

751

We can't.

752

We gotta keep it moving.

753

Maricella Herrera: I know what

it's like to work with like kind

754

of icons and it's interesting.

755

Very

756

cool to see.

757

Very cool to have that energy.

758

Very cool.

759

To be doing something that you're

passionate about and having certain

760

platform, like helping you do it.

761

What made you quit?

762

What made you wanna actually

say, and I know you and I talked

763

about it before, like several

times, and you were not ready.

764

And I know that and I'm curious like what

made you be like, okay, I'm ready to.

765

Bet on this.

766

Sofia Pertuz: Bet on me, right?

767

That was it.

768

Yeah.

769

And yes, we did have many conversations

and I call you my quitting doula.

770

Maricella Herrera: I love it

771

Sofia Pertuz: because it was not an easy

decision when you're in a place of what

772

some people might perceive as privilege,

where you are exposed to things that

773

you normally would not have access to.

774

It's different.

775

I would say just coming back to

me, coming back to myself and

776

finding my voice again and knowing.

777

I have a long career myself

that I am really proud of.

778

I have experiences that I want to make

sure I own right for my own future.

779

My almost like future proofing myself

and making sure I found my voice again.

780

I, I can't explain it further than that.

781

Interesting.

782

And this could happen

in any workplace, right?

783

Right.

784

Like any workplace, you become

that workplace, you become

785

the identity of what that is.

786

And I, maybe it was I turned 50 around

that time, and there's something

787

about turning 50 where you go, who

am I separate from all the things.

788

I had already started that beginning of

that journey, right when I moved over to

789

leaving academia, after having been there,

after having been there for so long.

790

And then there was the second

moment of who do I wanna be in

791

this world and how can I do that?

792

While I can't do that,

if I'm not my own boss.

793

Maricella Herrera: There's

something about milestone birthdays.

794

I a hundred percent agree because

I always joke that me turning

795

40 and me quitting my job in the

same year are not a coincidence.

796

So tell me a little bit about what

you're doing, but I know that.

797

Part of it is stuff that you were already

doing, like you had your Latina group,

798

Sofia Pertuz: Latina Inside Academy

I created during the pandemic.

799

Also, I created a Latina inside Academy,

which was my way of creating a coaching

800

program around what are the things that

are barriers that we could overcome or

801

at least try to advance in the workplace.

802

And it was based on my dissertation.

803

I wrote my dissertation for my PhD on how

race, ethnicity, and gender impacted the

804

career trajectory of Latinas in mid-level.

805

I was like, I was stuck in mid-level.

806

So I did some me search and I said,

what is it that's holding us back from

807

being in senior level positions in high?

808

It was specific to higher ed, but

what I found was it's actually

809

more common with other fields too.

810

So I took the findings and

turned it into a course.

811

Maricella Herrera: I just had to

write the word me search down, because

812

Sofia Pertuz: me search, I needed to

figure out how to get outta mid-level.

813

And honestly, while writing that

dissertation was when I advanced, I

814

went from an assistant dean position

to an associate vice president

815

and dean of students position.

816

So I was my own like inspiration, yes.

817

But I also found a really

amazing coach that helped me

818

get ready for the interviews

and really helped me articulate.

819

How my experience was valid.

820

Good, solid.

821

And it was amazing.

822

Maricella Herrera: You can't, it's

very hard to see that from the inside.

823

Like it, yeah.

824

You need that help.

825

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

826

Maricella Herrera:

Quitting is a hard thing.

827

Like whatever it is, you're quitting.

828

I'm not like, we're talking about

a job, but quitting as a thing,

829

as a, as an action of leaving

something behind is so hard.

830

Both the making of the

decision, like you're talking

831

about coming back to yourself.

832

The doubts of is this the right thing?

833

Is this the right time?

834

And then the uncertainty after, even

if you have clear that this is what

835

you wanna do, like even if you have it

clear that, okay, I wanna go down my

836

coaching and consulting business and

continue to build that, there's still

837

uncertainty and there's still, I think

a process of, for me, it was grief.

838

I put that word in other people's

experience because everyone

839

has their own experience.

840

But for me it was grief

of finding out who I was.

841

I didn't have anything clear

that I was working towards.

842

But I'm curious about how

that timeframe was for you.

843

Like the finally saying, getting

away from the doubt, and then after.

844

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

845

It is a, it's like grief I have cried

at on the last day of every single job.

846

Whether I didn't like the job or not,

or I didn't, I had issues at the end.

847

I have loved every job I had.

848

It was like, I loved it until I did it.

849

Mm-hmm.

850

Something is a turning point, right.

851

At every job where you go, it's time

to move on for different reasons.

852

But I remember one job I was leaving.

853

Packing up and it was

like almost midnight.

854

I'm still packing up my office and

I'm crying with my boxes to the car.

855

I'm like, what is wrong with you?

856

If this is a good thing,

it's, it's a promotion.

857

Stop crying.

858

Why are you crying?

859

Because I'm like, I'm

gonna miss the students.

860

I'm gonna miss who I'm, but for this one,

it was different because it felt like.

861

I was already working on some leadership

development programming that I had already

862

just been ideating for a really long time.

863

Sitting on for a while.

864

I had the Latina Insight Academy

I had already been working on, and

865

from that branched out more of the

coaching and people were referring

866

people to me, not just Latinas.

867

So I had some men that I was coaching.

868

I had some women that were not Latina.

869

I was coaching.

870

It was a pretty cool moment of I've

got people looking for me for some

871

of these things that I have to offer.

872

So when I left, it was because I was ready

and I had some things lined up that I

873

said, if I don't leave now, I can't take

advantage of those offers I'm getting for

874

consulting opportunities, the leadership

development stuff that I was doing.

875

So it was just a good moment.

876

So when I did it, I wasn't afraid because

there were things, contracts, I was about

877

to sign that that were really exciting

and really cool, and then I was busy with

878

that, so I didn't have time to even mourn.

879

It's like when you don't

have time to mourn.

880

It wasn't until a few months

later when I was like, I.

881

Some of these wrapped up now What?

882

Maricella Herrera: There's always

a moment where it hits you.

883

Sofia Pertuz: Yes.

884

Yeah.

885

That's when I was like, Ooh, it was

so nice to have a steady paycheck.

886

Now I have to go chase that

paycheck because I'm my own

887

boss, so I have to figure it out.

888

So it's been ups and downs, and I have

to say I've been really lucky, but

889

I also feel that expression, luck is

when preparation meets opportunity.

890

Mm-hmm.

891

I've been prepared for a lot of things,

so I've been keeping my eye out.

892

I've been planting the seeds of

goodwill and doing things for a lot

893

of people for a long time and helping

people advance in their careers.

894

So some of them were the ones that

turned around and hired me for when

895

they heard I was out on my own.

896

I had some of my former coaching clients

who were like, Hey, I need this thing

897

for my company, or come do a disc

assessment with my team, or come do a

898

team development or retreat, or whatever.

899

So.

900

I've been very lucky and I've had a

lot of referrals, but one thing I've

901

realized even lately, even the last

month, I wanted to be on your show so

902

much sooner, but I wasn't ready to talk.

903

I know like, how do I go on and talk

about I should, I just quit my job

904

and then I'm gonna go get another job

because it, because I didn't make it or

905

I didn't do it, or something like that.

906

I finally felt ready to

talk about how it's hard.

907

It's not easy, but I also know luck and

referrals is not a business plan, so

908

I'm in the mode of creating something

that's more sustainable and systematic.

909

I wrote a book.

910

Maricella Herrera: Of course you did.

911

Sofia Pertuz: I, I'm sharing

this here first publicly.

912

I haven't, I've told a few.

913

Maricella Herrera: Oh, I get,

I get the, what's it called?

914

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah, the exclusive.

915

I,

916

Maricella Herrera: that's

what I, that's the word.

917

Sofia Pertuz: Yeah.

918

Yeah.

919

I wrote a book in the last year.

920

I joined this really amazing writing

program called Publish Your Purpose.

921

Jen T Grace, she's amazing.

922

And it was a writing group that you,

you submit your writings, they critique

923

and then give you some feedback.

924

And then I went to a writing retreat

last year in Dominican Republic.

925

That was all amazing.

926

Maricella Herrera: Oh,

that sounds really nice.

927

Sofia Pertuz: Inspirational.

928

Yeah, my sister went with me

and we're going again this year.

929

Santo Domingo, this time to the colonial

area to look at history of my family, but.

930

I was writing the book because there

was a certain pattern that kept

931

coming up in my coaching that I kept

doing, and I'm like, huh, I wonder

932

if I could figure out an acronym.

933

Because in higher ed, we love acronyms.

934

There are acronyms for everything.

935

I remember on campuses, I

was like, we should create a

936

glossary of all our acronyms.

937

When someone joins the campus, they

know what everything is because it was

938

RARD, rhd, all these different things.

939

And people would look at us like, what?

940

And I'm like, give them glossary.

941

So they can catch up really quickly.

942

So I came up with an acronym

for a whole way of thinking.

943

I won't share it yet 'cause I'm

still getting the book together, but

944

I can tell you what the method is.

945

It's first seeing where you are, your

current situation, just as always,

946

getting a good self-assessment, figuring

out what is most important to you.

947

What are your values and making

sure that whatever decisions

948

you're making are because of what

you're centering in your life.

949

Then that's the next part

is the creativity part.

950

What is possible?

951

What are all the things that you might

be able to do if you had no barriers

952

and nothing getting in your way?

953

Then there's the realistic part.

954

No, really what's the real strategy

and plan here with what you actually

955

have in front of you and what is

actually feasible in this moment.

956

And then the final part is do it.

957

Make it happen.

958

So this has a really cool acronym,

and when I'm ready to share it, maybe

959

I'll come on your show again, like

Hady Mendez got on your show twice,

960

so I wanna be like her when I grow up.

961

Maricella Herrera: Yes, absolutely.

962

Absolutely.

963

Sofia Pertuz: When I'm ready, I'll come

back and we can talk about my book.

964

Maricella Herrera: You said right now you

kept doing this in your coaching sessions.

965

Was it a certain situation that you

kept seeing people go through or was it

966

in all different types of situations?

967

Sofia Pertuz: Yes, I kept doing this to

figure out where people were in their

968

current, you know, before you can make any

decision of what change you need to make.

969

Usually people come to coaching

'cause they're like, I wanna find

970

a new job, or I'm in transition,

or I need to figure something out

971

in my life that needs to change.

972

So I call this a change

implementation model because.

973

What I kept seeing was that

moment of like, I don't even

974

know how to make this decision.

975

No, we need the change, but

how do I figure out what

976

change makes sense right now?

977

So the most important thing that, of

the whole model, aside from the action,

978

the two most important parts are

the values part and the action part.

979

So figuring out what is most important.

980

I have had people in tears where I go,

okay, let's talk about your values.

981

Like what is most important to you?

982

What are your non-negotiables?

983

What thing will you not give up?

984

What thing do you have to do

or keep in your life to feel

985

motivated, to feel excited?

986

Okay.

987

After we figure that out, and that

sometimes takes some time, we're

988

like, all right, now we can really

think about all the possibilities

989

and figure out what you could do.

990

But you would need an assessment back.

991

What are you good at?

992

You can't be like, oh, I'm

gonna become a coach tomorrow.

993

Okay, yes you can, but are

there some skill sets you need?

994

Are there contexts you need?

995

Are there some things you need to

put in place to figure out when

996

to do that or how to do that?

997

And I'm just making that up.

998

Maricella Herrera: To put another

example, like you can't just

999

say, okay, I'm gonna go be a.

00:49:34,304 --> 00:49:35,974

Number one, pop star.

00:49:36,499 --> 00:49:37,799

You have to like, no,

00:49:38,179 --> 00:49:38,999

Sofia Pertuz: you know, sing.

00:49:39,494 --> 00:49:40,514

You need any lessons.

00:49:40,514 --> 00:49:42,554

Do you have any connections

in the music industry?

00:49:42,554 --> 00:49:43,724

Are you gonna record it yourself?

00:49:43,844 --> 00:49:43,994

No.

00:49:43,994 --> 00:49:44,474

Yeah, you're right.

00:49:44,474 --> 00:49:47,239

I had someone who said, I wanna be

a CEO of a nonprofit organization.

00:49:48,344 --> 00:49:48,764

Okay.

00:49:48,824 --> 00:49:49,214

Okay.

00:49:49,214 --> 00:49:54,134

What skill sets do you have that

would make an organization a board,

00:49:54,134 --> 00:49:55,484

believe that you could do that?

00:49:55,604 --> 00:49:59,714

And I did have someone become a CEO of

a nonprofit as as part of our coaching,

00:50:00,224 --> 00:50:04,064

but they had such a solid background,

they just needed to articulate that

00:50:04,064 --> 00:50:07,514

to a board and to, and they needed

to realize who their audience was

00:50:08,174 --> 00:50:09,734

and who they needed to convince.

00:50:09,734 --> 00:50:10,454

So when.

00:50:10,889 --> 00:50:15,329

You get to the part of what's realistic

and what is actually possible, that's

00:50:15,329 --> 00:50:16,979

when by then you've already done the work.

00:50:17,309 --> 00:50:18,329

What's most important?

00:50:18,599 --> 00:50:20,129

What are my skillset?

00:50:20,369 --> 00:50:22,169

What resources do I have available to me?

00:50:22,559 --> 00:50:24,629

What can I seek out if I'm not ready yet?

00:50:25,019 --> 00:50:28,259

And then when you have all that, you

can say, okay, take the next step

00:50:30,464 --> 00:50:32,039

and you can revisit this over and over.

00:50:32,219 --> 00:50:33,689

That's the cool part I like about it.

00:50:34,709 --> 00:50:35,609

Maricella Herrera: It's hard though.

00:50:35,609 --> 00:50:39,839

The non-negotiables is very hard and

obviously the action plan is very hard.

00:50:39,839 --> 00:50:42,689

Like I think you can get really stuck.

00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:43,949

I can get really stuck.

00:50:43,949 --> 00:50:46,889

I should not talk for other

people, but I can get really

00:50:46,889 --> 00:50:49,139

stuck with the action part Yes.

00:50:49,229 --> 00:50:49,589

Of it.

00:50:49,799 --> 00:50:53,579

Because it's also about breaking it like

you're saying, into what you need to do.

00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:57,309

What is it that you need to do

to get to where you wanna go?

00:50:58,004 --> 00:51:01,574

Sofia Pertuz: Yes, and I'll share one of

my, I have a really amazing colleague.

00:51:01,574 --> 00:51:02,414

I'm gonna call her out.

00:51:02,414 --> 00:51:05,594

Her name's Jillian Atkinson

and I rely on her a lot.

00:51:05,594 --> 00:51:08,744

We do a lot of mutual coaching and we

help each other think through stuff.

00:51:08,744 --> 00:51:11,324

And we were brainstorming

about, okay, how, what is the

00:51:11,324 --> 00:51:13,274

next thing that you need to do?

00:51:13,484 --> 00:51:15,794

We always ask each other,

what's the next step?

00:51:15,884 --> 00:51:16,814

What's the next thing?

00:51:17,474 --> 00:51:18,704

And it's, it could be manageable.

00:51:19,004 --> 00:51:21,134

One thing I wanna do is finish.

00:51:21,809 --> 00:51:22,949

The editing of my book.

00:51:22,949 --> 00:51:25,499

I have a developmental editor who's

given me all this feedback and I

00:51:25,499 --> 00:51:28,949

have to finish incorporating it,

and I'm shuffling my feet on it.

00:51:29,459 --> 00:51:31,559

Her question to me was like,

let's look at your calendar.

00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:35,489

What do you need to remove that's

unnecessary on your calendar,

00:51:35,489 --> 00:51:36,659

because what you need is time.

00:51:37,619 --> 00:51:40,769

And I realized I had signed up for

this conference on Wednesday, and I was

00:51:40,769 --> 00:51:42,839

like, do you really need to be there?

00:51:42,989 --> 00:51:43,379

No.

00:51:43,589 --> 00:51:45,479

So I went ahead and just deleted it.

00:51:45,509 --> 00:51:47,549

I suddenly found myself a hopeful day.

00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:48,029

I'm like.

00:51:48,419 --> 00:51:50,969

I can't wait to finish editing this thing.

00:51:51,059 --> 00:51:55,409

I was so excited, but it took her

pointing that out to me, and that's

00:51:55,409 --> 00:51:59,339

why it's so important for someone to

be like your companion, your quitting

00:51:59,339 --> 00:52:02,969

doula, your person that, yeah.

00:52:02,969 --> 00:52:03,149

Yeah.

00:52:03,149 --> 00:52:05,729

You should put that on your

LinkedIn title at the top.

00:52:06,509 --> 00:52:08,159

Maricella Herrera: I was like

seeing these parallels when you

00:52:08,269 --> 00:52:15,959

left academia to go to Jed and found

this like extra time in your life.

00:52:16,019 --> 00:52:20,699

You were saying you had a really hard

time kind of putting you first or doing

00:52:20,699 --> 00:52:27,734

something for you, and I'm curious if

when you quit this last job, Billie Jean

00:52:27,734 --> 00:52:33,269

King to go on your own, did you make

any time for you that was not just to go

00:52:33,359 --> 00:52:37,184

and pursue what you were, the consulting

and the coaching that you were gonna do?

00:52:37,904 --> 00:52:39,404

Sofia Pertuz: That's a good question.

00:52:39,494 --> 00:52:40,454

No, I did not.

00:52:41,144 --> 00:52:45,404

As a matter of fact, I went turbo

into working on all these different

00:52:45,464 --> 00:52:50,594

proposals, figuring out how to get

some feelers out for marketing stuff.

00:52:50,594 --> 00:52:53,774

Not a lot of it, but I started posting

a little more on LinkedIn 'cause I

00:52:53,774 --> 00:52:57,704

knew visibility was important and I was

getting up at four or five in the morning.

00:52:57,704 --> 00:53:00,314

I still do that 'cause I have some

different projects I'm working

00:53:00,314 --> 00:53:02,774

on, so I'm still working on it.

00:53:03,434 --> 00:53:06,044

I start, I have to do external

stuff to motivate myself.

00:53:06,044 --> 00:53:08,954

So I joined the gym and I joined

the challenge recently that you

00:53:08,954 --> 00:53:11,684

have to go three times a week or

you lose this money that you put in.

00:53:12,434 --> 00:53:14,774

And I've been motivated

because I don't wanna do,

00:53:15,344 --> 00:53:16,724

Maricella Herrera: this is

why I paid for a trainer.

00:53:16,754 --> 00:53:17,744

Sofia Pertuz: So it's like a cycle.

00:53:17,894 --> 00:53:18,194

Yeah.

00:53:18,194 --> 00:53:22,034

I did have more time to do some

things for myself and spend more

00:53:22,034 --> 00:53:23,684

time with my family and travel.

00:53:23,684 --> 00:53:27,674

And I, I love the fact that I can look

at my calendar and go, oh, I'm gonna go

00:53:27,674 --> 00:53:29,384

to my son's family weekend next weekend.

00:53:29,384 --> 00:53:30,494

I just blocked the schedule.

00:53:30,899 --> 00:53:31,409

That's it.

00:53:31,589 --> 00:53:32,699

I don't have to take days off.

00:53:33,419 --> 00:53:35,339

It's my time that I'm taking off.

00:53:35,459 --> 00:53:38,159

And then I have other things that if

I wanna go to a conference or not,

00:53:38,159 --> 00:53:40,409

if I wanna go to something, I have

to fit in the budget and all that.

00:53:40,409 --> 00:53:42,689

But yes, I have actually, okay.

00:53:43,049 --> 00:53:45,629

Made time for some of the, yeah, I'm

always like doom and gloom first, but

00:53:45,839 --> 00:53:50,429

I have, I actually have put stuff on my

schedule that had I been in a full-time

00:53:50,429 --> 00:53:51,959

job, I would've had to think twice.

00:53:51,959 --> 00:53:54,719

'cause I'm like, do I wanna

take a day off of that where

00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:56,069

my time is very different now?

00:53:56,579 --> 00:53:57,239

It's more like.

00:53:57,659 --> 00:54:00,899

Do I wanna wake up early today so

that I can do that thing tomorrow?

00:54:01,289 --> 00:54:01,589

Yeah.

00:54:01,709 --> 00:54:04,169

Because it's me flexing my

own schedule, figuring it out.

00:54:04,839 --> 00:54:09,339

Maricella Herrera: I think there's

this myth of you're gonna become an

00:54:09,339 --> 00:54:12,369

entrepreneur and you're gonna have

all this freedom, and Yes, but no.

00:54:12,879 --> 00:54:13,179

Right.

00:54:13,329 --> 00:54:17,229

You have, like you said, the flexibility

of your time to maybe arrange it

00:54:17,229 --> 00:54:21,939

in a different way, but no, many

times you just go down and work.

00:54:22,629 --> 00:54:23,949

You either work harder or.

00:54:25,059 --> 00:54:30,879

In my case, get stuck and then just feel

really guilty for not working harder

00:54:31,809 --> 00:54:32,439

Sofia Pertuz: such a cycle.

00:54:32,439 --> 00:54:35,679

But I say you have to, in a way, you're

earning your freedom, but you have to earn

00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:38,499

it with discipline to be an entrepreneur.

00:54:38,829 --> 00:54:39,489

Maricella Herrera: that's a good one.

00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:42,159

Okay, last question.

00:54:42,219 --> 00:54:46,389

If you could go back when you were really

burnt out without knowing what burnout

00:54:46,389 --> 00:54:48,639

was, what would you tell yourself?

00:54:49,674 --> 00:54:52,854

Sofia Pertuz: I would say there's

a light at the end of this tunnel

00:54:52,854 --> 00:54:57,444

and wait till you see how cool it's

gonna be in a few years when you are.

00:54:58,149 --> 00:55:01,959

Able to do so many really amazing

things and everything that you

00:55:01,959 --> 00:55:06,699

learned from undergraduate, from your

childhood, from being a camp counselor,

00:55:07,479 --> 00:55:09,909

all of it is gonna pay off later.

00:55:09,909 --> 00:55:11,199

So don't despair.

00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:15,219

Don't get caught up in what's so hard

right now because those things that are

00:55:15,219 --> 00:55:19,269

hard right now, they're the most amazing

stories I get to tell Now during my

00:55:19,269 --> 00:55:23,499

training sessions and when I'm talking

with people and when I'm coaching, I

00:55:23,499 --> 00:55:25,084

can actually say I have been there.

00:55:26,094 --> 00:55:26,784

I get it.

00:55:26,844 --> 00:55:28,434

Let's figure out how to get you out.

00:55:28,434 --> 00:55:28,914

I'm out.

00:55:29,154 --> 00:55:30,024

Let's get you out.

00:55:30,414 --> 00:55:33,624

Because I'm true, even though I might say

I'm busy and yes, I have a lot going on.

00:55:34,344 --> 00:55:35,154

I'm not burnt out.

00:55:36,174 --> 00:55:37,644

Maricella Herrera: That is a big thing.

00:55:37,884 --> 00:55:41,154

Getting outta that cycle

is just so different.

00:55:41,934 --> 00:55:42,654

Sofia Pertuz: It really is.

00:55:42,714 --> 00:55:45,114

And I'm not saying I have mostly ups.

00:55:45,174 --> 00:55:46,044

That's not possible.

00:55:46,344 --> 00:55:47,184

I have my downs.

00:55:47,184 --> 00:55:47,904

I have my days.

00:55:47,904 --> 00:55:48,624

Maricella Herrera: Everyone does though.

00:55:48,624 --> 00:55:48,684

Sofia Pertuz: Ugh.

00:55:50,274 --> 00:55:51,174

Maricella Herrera: Everyone does.

00:55:51,174 --> 00:55:53,124

and whoever says they don't is lying.

00:55:53,334 --> 00:55:54,264

Let's be honest.

00:55:54,264 --> 00:55:55,044

It's a human.

00:55:55,194 --> 00:55:55,974

It's human nature.

00:55:57,144 --> 00:55:59,874

I was laughing internally

as you said, camp counselor.

00:55:59,874 --> 00:56:04,644

'cause it's like camp

counselor, ra, trainer, coach.

00:56:04,794 --> 00:56:05,334

You're a teacher.

00:56:06,054 --> 00:56:06,324

Sofia Pertuz: Yep.

00:56:06,504 --> 00:56:06,894

Teacher.

00:56:06,984 --> 00:56:10,914

Maricella Herrera: Anything else I

missed that you might wanna talk about?

00:56:11,709 --> 00:56:15,099

Sofia Pertuz: I didn't talk too

much about my family and like where,

00:56:15,129 --> 00:56:17,919

when I remember like where I might

have found my motivation and I

00:56:17,919 --> 00:56:20,289

00:56:20,289 --> 00:56:24,099

So during the transition I was going

through was a moment where I was

00:56:24,099 --> 00:56:27,909

just really appreciating everything I

learned from her and her resilience.

00:56:27,999 --> 00:56:32,019

And I used to call myself a

first generation entrepreneur

00:56:32,109 --> 00:56:33,369

and I'm like, that is such a lie.

00:56:33,459 --> 00:56:38,829

My father was a cab driver, so he was his

own boss and my mom used to sell Avon.

00:56:39,044 --> 00:56:42,194

Tupperware clothes, bras, everything.

00:56:42,194 --> 00:56:45,614

Like she was such a, and I used

to say hustler, and it wasn't a

00:56:45,614 --> 00:56:47,294

hustle like she was an entrepreneur.

00:56:47,624 --> 00:56:53,609

So if we use the word hustler or the word

hustle, it takes the legitimacy out of it.

00:56:53,609 --> 00:56:56,129

Because she used to keep books,

she used to keep records.

00:56:56,219 --> 00:56:57,899

All these people in the

neighborhood owed her money.

00:56:57,959 --> 00:57:01,259

So it was so cool that she was like

keeping track like a real business.

00:57:01,259 --> 00:57:02,579

And she was an entrepreneur.

00:57:02,879 --> 00:57:03,689

I wanna say that.

00:57:04,109 --> 00:57:05,999

Like I always had it in me.

00:57:06,269 --> 00:57:08,309

It's not anything that

came out of nowhere.

00:57:08,429 --> 00:57:14,339

This is what I was taught from my own

mother who was her own like badass.

00:57:14,489 --> 00:57:17,489

So I wanted to just make sure I

honor her in this conversation.

00:57:17,579 --> 00:57:20,639

Maricella Herrera: I love that because

you talked about your mom a couple times

00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:23,249

mentioning how she would push you, right?

00:57:23,309 --> 00:57:26,879

If you're bored, here's a

broom, or are you president now?

00:57:27,089 --> 00:57:27,269

Yes.

00:57:28,599 --> 00:57:32,499

That color that you just shared

of her being an entrepreneur and

00:57:32,559 --> 00:57:36,759

your dad being an entrepreneur and

like that background gives so much

00:57:36,759 --> 00:57:39,969

more meaning to that push in a way.

00:57:40,149 --> 00:57:44,519

Yeah, and I like the idea of

not using the word hustle.

00:57:44,699 --> 00:57:45,899

I think that it's right.

00:57:45,899 --> 00:57:47,699

I never thought about it, but it's true.

00:57:47,699 --> 00:57:52,454

It does take out the legitimacy of a lot

of this work, which is it's work, right.

00:57:55,529 --> 00:57:56,039

Sofia Pertuz: Absolutely.

00:57:56,039 --> 00:57:57,119

So thank you for having me.

00:57:57,119 --> 00:58:01,319

So I really appreciate it and I'm glad I

felt like I was finally ready to be here.

00:58:01,494 --> 00:58:01,884

Thank you.

00:58:01,984 --> 00:58:02,564

Maricella Herrera: I'm so happy.

00:58:03,014 --> 00:58:03,404

Thank you.

00:58:08,195 --> 00:58:09,215

That's it for today.

00:58:09,305 --> 00:58:10,385

Thanks for listening.

00:58:10,685 --> 00:58:14,915

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