Painter, musician, and writer (among many other things) Ross Simonini likes to get at the truth by subtraction. In this episode, we talk about the zen koan of "the finger and the moon" and how it relates to knowing the unknown. He introduces me to fun concepts like apophatic theology (the idea that God can never be known or described). And he describes the hell that is being trapped inside yourself. This episode is part one of two because there's a lot to chew on here, and I want to let the conversation breathe a bit. Stay tuned for Part 2 later this week!

Get my full convo with Ross (even more than Parts 1 and 2 combined!), every installment of the debrief podcast This Is Your Aftershow, and shoutouts in future episodes at patreon.com/davemaher. By joining, you're helping me realize my dream of making this show my living.

For both a foundation and a deeper exploration of some of the ideas we talk about, check out Ross' essay, "The All," in The Believer.

Follow Ross on Instagram: @rosssimonini, visit his website rosssimonini.com, and if you're in New York City, go see his art show "The All" at Anonymous Gallery until February 19, 2022! 

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Transcript: This Is Your Afterlife on Podscribe

Music = Future: "Use Me" / Four Tet: "Two Thousand and Seventeen" / Johnnie Frierson: "Miracles"