I Don’t Wanna Rush, But I AM Anxious - Ashley and Joel Discuss Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01 - AC020 - The Articulate Coven: Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire & Immortal Universe After Show

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I Don’t Wanna Rush, But I AM Anxious - Ashley and Joel Discuss Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01 - AC020

Episode 20 • 13th November 2022 • The Articulate Coven: Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire & Immortal Universe After Show • The Articulate Coven, Ashley and Joel

I Don’t Wanna Rush, But I AM Anxious - Ashley and Joel Discuss Anne Rice’s Interview with the Vampire S01 - AC020

Joel: The Articulate Coveen is the original unofficial podcast and fan community for An Rice's interview with the Vampire and An Rice's Immortal Universe from AMC and AMC Plus. Welcome to the Articulate Cove and we are your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: I'm Joel Sharpton, and we are the Articulate Cove. Oh, Ashley. First and foremost, I wanna wish you a very happy anniversary. You

Ashley: Thank you.

Joel: Mister Ashley, Brett Eiler, celebrated seventeen years of blissful

Ashley: marriage. Is that right? Yes. Yes. It's true. It's true. All the bliss. Yeah. We're we're seventeen years in. So high fives and we had some really great champagne and we're gonna go to New Orleans in a couple of weeks. So booyah that's what I'm doing, Robert.

Joel: Congratulations. Congratulations.

Ashley: Thank you. Thank you fine, sir. I appreciate it.

Joel: We are back to discuss the first season of AMC's and Anne Rice's interview with a vampire. We've been watching it on an AMC plus but you've also been able to watch it on cable. And now, hopefully, it'll start We're all caught up. Out. Yeah. Everybody's all caught up. It's trickling out across the world. International markets are getting it, and and there's a lot of buzz, all of the basically, every outlet in the world got to interview all of the cast and the writers and everybody else this week. There's been a ton of press

Ashley: that's been out

Joel: about it. As it's clear AMC is pleased with the response, and and they've begun to pump money into the next phase of this thing. Says good things about season two. Right, Ashley? Yeah.

Ashley: We're looking forward to it. And I'm sure I'm not the only one that has completely run through all your free articles and hit all the paywalls. I hit varieties of paywall today, and I was so pissed. There was, like, three articles altogether. Oh, I should get us a subscription. We're

Joel: all gonna have to sign up for trials like we did

Ashley: for Right.

Joel: See, this this is gonna be the the TV series that causes all to to go into subscription overload because we're gonna add like a couple of things here and a couple of things there. First and foremost, before we get into our discussion of the season overall, we've got some great feedback from our Facebook group that I wanted to highlight as we kinda work through every episode individually. And then at the end of the episode, we're gonna get to some season two speculation and just overall series speculation. As we begin our preparation now for the Mayfair which is coming in January of twenty three. But before we get to that, we've got an announcement to make. Ashley, you and I are actually not done talking about interview with the vampire yet after this episode.

Ashley: No, we are not. We're gonna we're gonna do a little more talking about it.

Joel: So we I teased this actually. If you follow us on Twitter, I mentioned a a few weeks ago maybe perhaps something interesting fell into my inbox on Twitter, and it did it did indeed fall into my inbox. And here's what it is. We got asked if we would be interested to host a couple of discussion club discussions, discussion club chats, live streams, on the Dorian app. I think we even mentioned Dorian way back in the beginning of this show. AMC partnered with Dorian for an official fan fiction community and opportunity. You can actually go in and use elements that are created by the Dorian team every

Ashley: created such cool art.

Joel: Right. Such

Ashley: and there's there's two different

Joel: styles too. There's a very realistic style and then there's a more cartoonish style you can choose from if you prefer. But Either way, they've got these backgrounds and the character elements and character animations that go along with it. And then in in my per lens, I I've been calling this sort of like a web comic builder, you know, like, that's the way that I would think about this. I've always heard these. I've often had really cool ideas. Oh, that would make, like, an interesting, like, three three panel web comic or maybe even a longer story, an ongoing story. And I'm not an artist, so I've never even tried to do something like that. Jordan not gives you the opportunity to do that.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. It gives you it just it gives you the opportunity to, you know, no matter what your skill level is, to kind of dabble and play in this world that we are all getting to have so much fun in it again.

Joel: And they're also going to have those same connections with the Mayfair witch's storyline coming in just a few months. So again, this is gonna be an ongoing relationship with AMC, we think. Dorian reached out. They said, hey, we want to sort of highlight the discussion going on around the show and not just that, but actually they've got some connected fan fiction official storylines that are gonna continue in the off season. We're gonna have the creator of that storyline involved in our first discussion. These are coming up next week, next Monday night, the twenty first, and then November twenty eighth, Those are our

Joel: key discussion

Joel: clubs. There'll be two more following that, but the two we're hosting are gonna be the twenty first of November and the twenty eighth of November. The link and the information is in the show notes right now for this episode, so you can go there, but we'll also be posting that to our social, our Twitter and our Facebook over the next, you know, week or so to get you ready for that. And if for any reason you can't be part of the livestream on those Monday nights. We will have an audio recap for you that will be right here. I'll just caution you. It's not gonna be probably the same quality of audio that you're used to in our regular episodes because it is a livestream. We've

Ashley: been even

Joel: positive a hundred percent on now. We're capturing it currently. This is all kind of a trial and error

Ashley: in your New mystery for us. It's so much fun. Yeah.

Joel: Exactly. But we I will do my best to get that up for you. After the fact. So be aware, we'd love to have you join us though. And the cool thing about joining us on the live streams, Ashley, is that there'll be a chat function there. So you can literally join the conversation, give us feedback

Ashley: -- Yeah. -- and

Joel: be part of the conversation as we we do the the actual discussion.

Ashley: In real time, I think

Joel: it's gonna be right, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Our first topic on the twenty first is gonna be adaptations and fan fiction. Right. And and what our thoughts on both this adaptation from AMC of interview with the Vampire, but also the way that Anne Rice and her fandom have connected with fan fiction in the past. We're gonna talk about all of that. And then on the twenty eighth, we're gonna talk about toxic relationships. I don't know why that would be connected to this series, actually,

Ashley: nonetheless, No one But we'll do some real life figures. Nothing to to to knock that into my head. Yeah. Yeah. We're excited. We're you know, these are two topics where we have a lot of interest in as far as especially this, you know, this world, this realm goes. And so we're really, really excited. The people we've talked to from Dorian are fantastic and and really, really fun. So it's I'm we're excited to have kind of a little partnership with them.

Joel: That's again, it's gonna be the November twenty first and November twenty eighth at five PM eastern. That will be our livestream discussions on those evenings please come and join us. And

Ashley: we'll get info on the other episodes as well so that you have that too because they're all gonna be really fun and they're all well, I think one one might be about female characters and representation of female characters in this world and and in other worlds that we enjoy escaping into. So I think I think everyone is gonna have a really great time. If you haven't had a chance to check out the app, do it's a really fun, really cool, very user friendly even for for my gen x ass.

Joel: Yeah. No. I agree. I strongly agree. I was a little I was a little intimidated at first, but I think it's gonna be a lot of fun. And I wanna make sure that if you're available, you come and join us for that. Alright. Let's let's get into this thing, Ashley. Yeah. First and foremost, let's talk about as we've sat with it, read some of the coverage. Like you said, it's been in especially, variety. There were a ton of things.

Ashley: Oh, variety is what got me today.

Joel: I read a great article today. I think it was, like, TV insider. I linked that in the Facebook group too. There've been there's been so much good press, so much good word from Roland Jones and from the other writers as well as from Jacob and Sam especially at the top, but also Assad has done a lot of press in the last week. Now finally, he's been unleashed.

Ashley: Oh, yes.

Joel: What what are you thinking now? As we sort of sat with it, we begin to digest this part one of interview with the vampire. I

Ashley: really, really love the bar moncasting. I've really like going back through and re watching it. I'm all in on this. I'm ready for it. He he's gonna be a real pain in our assays, and I'm excited to see it. I I went back through and watched, and I was, like, really trying to pay attention to figure out if they had tricked us at any point. And I don't think they did even when Louie was feeding on him. He covers the marks so that Daniel can't see them disappear. I didn't catch that him holding it or and realizing obviously, not realizing why he was doing it at the time. So I didn't feel cheated by the reveal at all, and that was a big thing for me. If I could go back and felt robbed, but I felt like I'd been lied to, I wasn't gonna have fun with

Joel: it. Oh, I would strongly agree with that. And so far on my rewatch, I agree. I haven't been there there's nothing that I feel cheated by. I will say, I'm only up to episode three in in like my I finished the season. I know it all now. I'd watched all the episodes at least twice. Most of them I watched three times already before I begin this rewatch, but none of that was with the knowledge of the season finale.

Ashley: Right? Right. Yes.

Joel: You're going back and looking for those inconsistencies. I think there are many questions remaining for things that happened in season one.

Ashley: Oh, for sure

Joel: that is proven to us or for certain a inconsistency or a or a plot hole, so to speak.

Ashley: Yeah. Yeah. They didn't leave any yeah. They didn't leave any threads. I mean, they'll have tons of, like, questions out there, but they they didn't leave any, like, they it's not a lie. And that just that pisses me off. It's why I don't like a fight club. Like, that's a anyway, we don't have to get into that. This is not a podcast about Fight Club, Ashley. But I just really appreciate that it that it held true through the storytelling. Also, how many fucking vampires work in that building? All through that dinner, I was starting to notice, like, but we see a panic and he doesn't have he doesn't wear gloves, he wear short sleeves. Everyone else that we see in in the house kind of has the long sleeve uniform with the mask, but they are all wearing those gloves. And I'm like, oh, are they hiding more vampire fingernails under there are monstile.

Joel: Or is it just to throw you off the fact that Rashid is wearing gloves the whole time and

Ashley: The whole time. Absolutely. Laugh does. Yeah. It's

Joel: it's hard to tell that but I think that's the sort of thing. Boy, there's so much there's so much to get to in season two. Knowing now, it is gonna be eight episodes. I wonder how in the world they're going to be judicious with their time and not make us feel like they're rushing this through, particularly if they end up doing what we've speculated a lot about, which is like combining parts of, like, the first half of the Vampire Listat with the last half of the interview with the Vampire and sort of telling both those stories at once. Man, I don't know. There's so much to get to. There's so much

Ashley: to get to. Exactly. Exactly. Especially as we go into what presumably and hopefully will be third and fourth seasons, which are gonna be tackling whatever comes next. You know, like, the way they may the way they might lay it out, there's definitely a few ways they could do it. And not rush the story line too much, but still keep it, you know, keep the keep the engine running if that makes sense. Wait.

Joel: I as busy as the press has been this week. Can you imagine how busy agents across Hollywood and London, and all of Europe have been as they try to get their clients in front of these creators for those elder vampire roles as

Ashley: we made into -- Gosh. --

Joel: two and three. I mean, how many women have put their names up for Gabriel in a costume.

Ashley: Right. Last

Joel: week.

Ashley: Just no just like yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Because that I feel like that's clearly the direction we're going to a gosh. I feel like that's we're gonna see that. We're gonna experience that. We're gonna see that in real time. That's gonna be a real time experience. I don't think at this point that's in the past. I think that's definitely what we're gonna roll into.

Joel: You know, I think fairly early on someone mentioned Lina Hetty as Gabrielle.

Ashley: Oh, yeah. I

Joel: I think you and I even talked about Aileen is probably too famous at this point to wanna do that TV. But I gotta tell you, based on the reception of this, if I was Rollins, I'd go and I'd I'd say, hey, look, you're gonna do one season. And then

Ashley: we're gonna have

Joel: you back on again for

Ashley: It's not gonna be, like, a slog for a while. You can come you'll come back after appearances,

Joel: you know, a season or two down the road. We won't have you on again for a whole season ever again. We're gonna pay you a boatload of money, and we'll raise your profile again. You'll be super popular relevant. Oh, and also we're gonna make you incredibly sexy and independent and, you know, you're this this this woman that even all the vampires are like, damn. That woman just does whatever she wants. Don't she? And then

Ashley: and then they have to be like, Anna's a little it's a little and busty. And she's like, what? Oh, yeah. Or, like, it's a little and busty. It's Like, what You get

Joel: to make out with Sam on a fairly regular basis this this first season. What do you think? Bless. Yeah. That they're french kiss. You know, they're very French.

Ashley: They're very French.

Joel: We

Joel: Anyway, I here's the thing that occurred to me. As I began this, like, actual rewatch, even more. And I haven't really begun to pick apart the Armand stuff. I will say I am with you I have I have a a hundred percent bought into the casting now. Oh. I mentioned this on the last episode, but the more that I think about it, the more that I want when I think about this Armand and this L'Estat fighting and fucking probably.

Joel: Yeah. Right? Gonna be And this lily this

Joel: arm this arm this armand finding his marius and fighting and fucking and yes yes friend I am for all of it. It

Joel: all it

Joel: alleviates the worst parts of the Myriad's Arman relationship. One would imagine. I mean -- Yeah. -- I I I don't the beginnings of that relationship still may be complicated, but the idea that that is inherently an incestuous relation not an incestuous of a pedophilic relationship

Ashley: -- Right. --

Joel: one would hope that this casting changes. Whatever hardships Arman faces as a boy, I think will all be before he ever meets Arman. Before he ever meets Marius, now, but he's the way that this is cast.

Ashley: It would that that would make sense. I am just I mean, he's he's fantastic. I think I buy it into his behavior more. You know, when we were talking about when we were going through each episode and talking about, oh, fuck. You know, could it be Myriad? Could it could it not I mean, could it could it be Yarmond? Could it not be Yarmond? And just so many things he does that seems out of out of Arman's kind of wheelhouse behavior wise, but feeling like he and he's like, fucking with people makes all of that make more sense to me.

Joel: Oh, a million percent. A million percent. Here here's the the one thing that I did really notice though. This whole series or this season at least, I should say. Is fundamentally about a misunderstanding between our two main characters, different points of view that they come from. Louie is doing his best to navigate multiple worlds code switching. We called this out early on. Right. L'Estat meanwhile believes that Louis is hiding himself in a, like, a self loathing way. First is a gay man, then is a vampire. Lastat sees this as a weakness, something fundamentally to overcome. It's not. It is part of the very way that Louis can and should and will continue to navigate the world that he

Ashley: has It's a survival technique.

Joel: Exactly. And Listat will probably never fully understand it, but

Ashley: because it doesn't have to.

Joel: Well, that's true too. It doesn't have to. Of their relationship. In the early nineteen hundreds. He lacks the empathy, the frame of reference, etcetera. He cannot understand Louise plight as a black man. No. And so that misunderstanding is at the center of all their misfortunes, I think. Louis and L'Estat are both broken men already. Their their relationship would have been you know, full of flaws, it would have been full of bad habits to spare. But it's that misunderstanding, I think, that means they can't figure it out and make it work. At least at this point in history. I am still aoustache shipper. I believe this is where this show goes.

Ashley: Hashtag forever. It will

Joel: end up indeed. I think the I think the two of them will will end up together even multiple times throughout the series. But here, it cannot work. It is inherently broken from the beginning because of that misunderstanding. One of them thinks it's about code switching. One of them thinks it's about self loading and and self denial. And that's it, man. That's it. And, you know, we've talked about, like, the idea of the Internet relationship where where you love a little harder than the other one in

Ashley: that question,

Joel: like, you know, question and, you know, like, boy, is it is today the day? Is tomorrow the

Ashley: day? Exactly. Pictures within the relationship. And yeah. That's within that. Man, that's a shit way to be sometimes, though.

Joel: Oh. I think though I think if Lrastat had understood with that that code switching idea that that I think you would have lost between worlds.

Ashley: Think he would get I think he would understand it. I think he would understand that knowing more. But I also think Louis does have, like, especially as far as, like, the moralities of of of his essence of who he is as a vampire. I mean, he still has that that underlying feeling of not belonging. And this is a really such a a really great way to kind of express because we've talked about how, you know, when when Anne was writing this book, Louis was her, you know, she was Louis, and and I think that to, you know, show kind of someone whose perspective isn't always seen, you know, a a grieving, you know, a grieving mother, a a black man, you know, it just is it kind of gives you a a chance to see something see something like this through a different perspective, a different lens that is still kind of relational in a way.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Alright. Let's dive into a little episode by episode

Ashley: break. Okay.

Joel: We both love this series. We're super excited about it. We both got some thoughts about season two. I realize

Ashley: how much I forgot about these first episodes because these last episodes have been so Epping crazy. I forgot how tough emotionally these first few episodes are. In spots and just, you know, I just forgot how much happens. And because the first two episodes aired together, I think that kind of made me blend them in my mind together a little bit more than I thought?

Joel: Yeah. I I can absolutely see that. I do think this show was shot. So, you know, we've been praising all season long. We've been praising and or over on Disney plus -- Oh. -- that show is specifically shot in, like, three episode arcs. Where where three episodes go together and tell one story, and then they often actually do time jumps in between those three episode arcs. This series was not shot in exactly that way. And yet because of the continuity of directors for, like, episode one and two, and then three and four were both shot by the same director that happened several times throughout the season. I think that is effectively what happened here. You had two episodes that were conceived and produced almost like its own mini movie. And I think that happened several times throughout the season.

Ashley: Howard Bauchner: Yeah, it gives it a good feeling of continuity. It just kind of helps it helps it flow a little bit. I like that the I feel like everything only looks better as the season goes on too. Like, the costumes only look better. The guy's hair only looks better. You know, the the settings look better, look a little more lived in, you know. And it is true that it's showing the passage of time, and it's probably you know, symbolically on purpose showing, you know, how these relationships are deepening and changing in a lot of ways and are and are hitting these these hard these hard spots and these difficult you know, time periods for them. It just really it really tells a great story that that scenic artistic design of the whole thing?

Joel: It's just top notch, absolutely from top to bottom. Oh oh, by the way, we didn't mention this. I'm I was supposed to there is an extra special episode from AMC. Even if you're not an AMC plus user, this aired on cable, I think, right after the finale episode aired. But in case you missed it, there's a link from YouTube. You can find it on our Facebook group You can find it on our Twitter as well or you can just search YouTube for it. It's called obsessed with the Vampire. It's a panel show,

Joel: an after show like the talking dead for instance on AMC in the past. This one is for the season as a whole. One imagines if the feedback for this is positive. That that might go episode to episode next year. I would love to see that I'd

Ashley: like to be released. I'd love to see that.

Joel: Yeah. Weekly after show release.

Joel: Even

Joel: if they do it AMC plus exclusive --

Ashley: Yeah. -- with that

Joel: extra content, I'd be

Ashley: When I was obsessed with Walking Dead, I loved I loved getting to watch talking dead after it.

Joel: Well, and the cool thing that they can do that a show like ours would never be able to do. And this is one of the values that it brings is they can bring in a handful of celebrities who are also fans and who

Ashley: have other things

Joel: to offer about the show. But it's so cool. You know, I think about Event Brown. Right? Event Brown was on so many people talking dead. And she's a great fan but she's also a celebrity. I would love

Ashley: to hear

Joel: what she has to say about this show, you know.

Ashley: So Absolutely. No. Yeah. Let's just

Joel: go check out definitely go check out obsessed with the vampire. I was I was telling Ashley before we started recording. It's a great panel, including a couple of, you know, quote unquote, vampires, celebrities like Elvira and Hardikian from what we do in the shadows. So go check it out. It's it's fantastic. Alright. Let's get into our feedback that I wanted to highlight. And then I think this is gonna, in many cases, spring a little extra conversation from us. Our Facebook group has just been tremendous. I will say, Ashley, it's so much fun to go and look. And it shows the progress of the show, I think, amongst mainstream listeners too. Our downloads for our episode about episode one, our discussion of episode one, I should say, to our discussion of episode seven. The like, the the immediate downloads that came they quadrupled from episode one to episode seven. I went back and look at the stats today.

Ashley: Five people listening to us and we loved every five of them.

Joel: Yeah. Well, there's a there's a lot more than that now. And the same thing happened in our comment thread too. You go back and you look at this spoiler thread for episode one, and there's like twelve fifteen comments. If you go and you look at the spoiler comment thread for episode six and seven, there are more than a hundred comments. And and that was just in the initial days. Now, what's actually happened is there's, like, three or four threads going about the season finale and the season overall. As people kind of spring off into these independent conversations that I'm hoping are gonna continue all throughout the off season and -- I

Ashley: love it. --

Joel: to May Fair Witches as well. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to go back to those threads and bring out some of the comments and highlight this great audience that we've got and and some of their excellent thought, so we didn't get to mention specifically in the show before.

Ashley: Absolutely. I'm so excited to include our crew. Alright.

Joel: So episode one, This one comes from Joshua James. He says when L'Estat gets lost in reverie, he seems truly old. He is kind of battered at this point and seems like he's not doing too well emotionally. The mention of Nikki without seeing his name just broke my heart. All the and rice references throughout the episode, like the Little Drink, etcetera, were perfect as well. Couple of things here. Absolutely agree. And this is something that, I think, especially as the season went on, you and I sort of started talking about less because this list that is so similar in so many ways to book presentations of list that. Yeah. We we missed the fact occasionally. We did mention it a few times, but this list dad has actually been a vampire for a full century longer than he was in the books before he made Louie into a vampire. So this list that has gone through some shit.

Ashley: Lonnie talks about how lonely how afraid of the loan we're gonna see is. And I do think that when he says that, that's genuine. That's that's genuinely what at this point he fears. He craves companionship. He needs companionship. He he needs Louis. He needs him at this point, you know, in his life. I think that was really really clear on my rewatch too. That's a really good catch. Those are the times that he when he's pensive and he's and he's more withdrawn. You do feel his age a lot more. You do feel a a calmer, more mature version of him, you know, offensive almost. You know, now

Joel: on on the flip side, there we did get some some recent feedback as, like, the overall season has wrapped up from a couple of folks in the group. I was thinking specifically about Rashad Bell He said he he at this point, he commented on this, like, three days ago. He hadn't seen the finale at this point. And overall, he was just saying that you know, this doesn't really feel like hand rise to me. Yeah. I I think this comment from and by the way, there's nothing wrong with that opinion. So you're absolutely you can feel however you wanna feel about this show. And all of you do, and

Ashley: especially the thing too We could see it. We understand what? Like, we can It hasn't been changed. Right? Yeah. It's

Joel: a

Ashley: lot.

Joel: That very thing we just talked about, you know, the book book list that has basically eleven years from creation to creating Louis. And so all of his trauma with with Nikki, and with Gabriel, and with Magnus, and then with Marius, all of those things happen. Bam, Bam, Bam, Bam, Bam, Bam, his fights with our mind. And then he he moves to Louisiana, and suddenly he falls in love with Louis. And this tumultuous relationship and then he spends this largest amount of time, sixty some odd years with Louis and Claudia in New Orleans, this show L'Estat, that is not the case. He's spent much more time as a vampire without Louis than he has with Louis and Claudia. Here. And so that's a big change. It's not just the race thing. It's not just the time frame. It's all of the -- That's changing the spin up from that.

Ashley: Sort of big experience. We like experiences things that happen, you know, and and there's something to be said in the in the in the novel about how those things happen in such rapid succession, how and and he is he does seem much more vulnerable. Also, it's you buy that Louie has that attitude that he was better than him, you know. And I think that's kind of an interesting, you know, that interesting way to show how the story is being reframed and the characters are being reframed because we're you know, it's it's the second chance at this interview. And even there's, you know, even along in a later episode and not to skip too far ahead, but you know, Daniel's comparing what he said then to what he's saying now and how different it is, you know. And I think that this, you know, this is kind of one of those one of the explanations as to far as to why the changes have been made if that makes any sort of sense at all. I've had too long to think about everything. Some rambling now, like a lunatic.

Joel: No. No. Not at all. But but to to sort of answer, Rashad, and I said some of this in the comments at the time. But my thought is answered or or his consideration there, is answered to me by Joshua when he talks about all these references from episode one, things like the Little Drink, things like the reference to only killing the evildoer. They don't they don't use that phrase because it's Louis that says it here not L'Estat as he does in the books. You know later, things like Louis correcting Daniel. It's not the flying gift. It's the cloud gift. Mhmm. You know? All of these things are very direct pulls from Anne. Then we go further than that. We think about the language that we reference so many times, all of the titles. Many of them actually settle out in the show. Those were pulled directly from Anne's language her you know, herself. Sections of dialogue in the in the opening episode, there are parts from the confession scene that come straight from the book. There are the big section there on the balcony and the final episode that we talked about last week that comes straight out of the

Ashley: board. Exactly. I didn't realize

Joel: that at the time, by the way, It's the melding of two things. It's Louis talking about New Orleans to our mind in interview with a vampire, and it's L'Estat talking about New Orleans when they're getting to the interview with the vampire section of the vampire list. So it's both of those sort of put together through the voice of L'Estat in that episode. But but they're I'm saying, they're using her language. They are. You listen to them in and when I say them, I mean, here are the show runners, but also the cast. You listen to them in their interviews and their press coverage. All of them revere Anne. Anne, while Christopher may disagree, you may disagree individually and may have disagreed if she was around. What they are attempting to do. They say it over and over again. What if Anne was writing this as a TV series for the first time in twenty twenty two? Right? That's what we're trying to do. Taking all of these stories and all of these ideas and and putting it as a television adaptation, which is its own thing, in twenty twenty two. What does that look like? We think it looks like this. And I think honestly, so far, they've done a damn fine job. We'll see how it lands. This is just

Ashley: be one

Joel: of the whole, you know, kit and caboodle. So And

Ashley: they've gotta hold everybody's interest when but, you know, they've gotta keep everybody on board. So I I mean, I I know that they are gonna take good care of the material, and I hope that they don't forget about, you know, the fans as they go along.

Joel: I yes. Absolutely. Well, I mean, like, you can't you gotta keep dancing with the one what Brung you.

Ashley: You know, like,

Joel: this fandom

Ashley: You know, our asses

Joel: are showing up. Yes. But I'm saying, we've we've all done a good job of showing up supporting, sharing this show with friends and family members and old and Rice heads and and mainstream fans like zombie fans and everybody else, you okay. Stick with us then. Don't don't leave us astray and and stop worrying about what the fans think and and stop worrying about making this a good adaptation just because you've had a little success now. Because I guarantee you, they'll they'll walk away from it just as quickly if you do stop caring about about Anne. And what what would Anne do so to speak? In the episode two let's move to episode two here for a minute. In that thread feedback, I called it I said, this is Araman's penthouse, not Louise. Now, I was never a Rashid Truthor. I never really got on board with a theory that Rishi was Armando, even honestly in the final moments of episode six when you see him in the seventies, I thought Well, let's wait for the other shoes to drop.

Ashley: Let's wait a minute to go here. Hundred percent

Joel: sure. But no. Yeah. I did know from the beginning, though, this was not Louie's penthouse. This is not Louie's style. The decorations are not Louie's style. As we just said, this was not Louie's style.

Ashley: No. Louis will squat in a little shack. As long as he's got some books and some light, he's fine. Give the guy some rats let him be. This is definitely not his digs. But I did love that that referring it to his referring to it as his coffin is their coffin have a better understanding of like, oh yeah, this is everybody's coffin.

Joel: Well, and also, like, in retrospect, it's one of those things that calls into question, what is the nature of their relationship right here? Was Right. Who's idea was this interview? In fact,

Ashley: who's -- Right. -- who's pulling

Joel: the resume. Yes. Yeah. Who's version of events are we hearing? Yeah. Roland, I will say very specifically, Roland Jones in a couple of the interviews that I read made some mention direct to no one is controlling anybody else. Right? And I okay. So I'll take him at face value there. Arman has not actually, like, mind wiped Louis and has not actually controlling him in that manner, but we know that our man's very nature is a manipulative one. We also don't know What information this Louis has? Does this Louis even know for a fact that L'Estat is alive in twenty twenty two.

Ashley: Well, was he

Joel: still under the impression? Or was he under the impression until those final moments at least? That he had actually killed Listot. Had he talked himself into that somehow?

Ashley: You know, I think too yeah. That's a that's a big question mark. I feel like he has to have seen him I feel like he has to have seen him when Claudia dies. Like that's sorry, spoiler alert. Shit. Or or well, no. That's

Joel: fine. Or or at least

Ashley: Yeah. Whatever the

Joel: resolution of season two is.

Ashley: Yeah. Like, actually,

Joel: we just had a interesting comment. Hang on. I'm trying to pull it up right here. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Here it was. Diana die. Just posted this earlier today. I have a question I've been going back and forth on the answer for since watching the finale. What do you think Louie's breakthrough was in the last scene? Did he realize under Daniel's pressing that he never intended to kill the stat? Is that the realization? Oh my god. I did let him off the hook right there from the very beginning, or did he realize that he didn't kill lestat. The first allows for the possibility that Louis and twenty two has seen list at somewhere between nineteen forty and twenty two, either in Paris and or later. So this is what you and I talked about last week, basically. Like, is is the idea when did he record the second version of come to me? Now, Diana says for a long time she had assumed that the first reading is true that Louis of twenty twenty two knows the stat survived he just assumed that he had really tried to kill him way back then. And that's mostly based on book events as well as the two moments from the show. Episode six, Louis says that Lastat later confessed to feeling shame about brutalizing him in nineteen thirty one. And then also the existence of the rerecorded come to me. But those two things don't have to have happened after nineteen forty. Lastat could have confessed to feeling ashamed during thirty seven to nineteen forty. Right? Like, he courted Louis for six years, and then they got back together for a while. So anytime in there, he could have done it after he was allowed to move back in. The rerecording could have been from that same period too. So good good catch there by Diana, And I think that all feeds into my question here even way back when. This ain't Louie's place.

Ashley: Right.

Joel: Who's is it? And what do they want with him? What's the arrangement here? You know, who's calling the shots? I I feel like I feel like Louie has a lot of answering to do in the next season. But so does our mind? So so do these show runners, and and I think we're gonna get a lot of those answers even as we barrel straight into the beginning of of season two. The other comment that I wanted to pull out from this episode two thread was from Aaron Conlon. She says, I don't care what Louie said. Singing off key is truly offensive. And if I had to use the dispatch and offender, I'd tag it, hashtag teamlessat. Hashtag teamlessat forever.

Ashley: I love that part. So much. We were laughing at we literally my my husband and I have said and laughed at that scene every single time. Because he was like and he said the same thing. Like, I get that. I I understand that. That's unacceptable. But, also, we're talking about that you know, the day that Louis gets turned, like, we're getting the very beginning of this, you know, episode and Lestat is so impatient to get to the adventure of it. But this such a fucking crazy day in Louie's life. He's at his brother's funeral. You know, he goes to church to try to make a mins, his boyfriend kills a priest and then punches another priest through the face and then he makes him go to a bar. That's a crazy fucking night in New Orleans.

Joel: But not just go to a bar go to a bar and don't immediately eat people even though everybody smells really good

Ashley: right now. You're starting. Yeah. Brad was Brad was just like, this was like a crazy night. Man, make some go to a bar after all that. Just

Joel: Oh, by the way, you can read people's thoughts. Did you know that now? You can read

Ashley: everybody else. Like,

Joel: Uh-uh. What a fucking thing, man. Yeah. It is that is an insane story line. And

Ashley: he really does let Louis just run out in the sign and burn the fuck out of himself. And that was crazy hilarious to me this time too. I was just like, that's kind of brack list out the brat kind of behavior to me, you know, like, oh, you gotta learn somehow, but he really got burned.

Joel: Oh my god. I forgot the milk memes too. He was covered in he covered in silver milk.

Ashley: Yeah. That's kind of

Joel: stuff I forgot. Well, again, there's so much stuff in the season, like

Ashley: I know it's crazy. That

Joel: answers some of our question. Right? Like, how are they gonna fit? Everything in episode into eight episodes. The same way they fit everything into seven episodes.

Ashley: This is mostly okay. How much trouble? Examples

Joel: to me. Yeah. Yeah. Couple of examples to me. I think episode four with Claudia a little rushed. We'll get to that in a minute. Maybe episode six as well, a little rushed. I could have used a little bit more. But if this season had been eight episodes, you imagine that would have solved that for us pretty quickly. So we're kind of saying back in the in the same boat. Yep. Episode three, this comes from and by the way, I forgive me ahead of time if I mispronounce anybody's name. I'm so sorry. Don't have pronunciations here. I just I'm just getting it written down. Elaine say, which Elaine is great. She comments all the time. Elaine says, just listened to your discussion on episode three, and I love you're in Ashley's enthusiasm for the show. Your mutual agreement on the discussion points is really cute. Everyone take a drink when Joel or Ashley replies to the other's comment with absolutely or I agree. Hundred percent. This is the origin by the way, we've we've talked about this on the show several times that you can take a drink because because Joel and Ashley agree. But we've I don't think we've ever actually mentioned the Lane for bringing it up. So this started in episode three. Elaine noticed it, mentioned it there in the comment section. Thank you, Elaine. We've gotten a big chuckle ourselves. I think she followed up in episode twelve. And

Ashley: that's not a problem. Number. Yeah. Yeah. And the finale

Joel: and said she had, like, she had, like, sixteen shots in episode seven.

Ashley: Sorry for

Joel: your help. Also in episode three, I know. Right. Everybody

Joel: go to the drip bar. Diana, Diana Die commented on on the episode three thread and said, oh, can I take a moment to call out the, it's not perfect? I'm not perfect moments for breaking my heart. Here again is a perfect this is me commenting. Here again is a perfect example of Louis and L'Estat fundamentally misunderstanding each other. Yes. Louis was not trying to put the fault on Lastad. Louis said it's not perfect. To is it was it Jacob --

Ashley: Yeah. -- Jonah?

Joel: Yeah. The Jonah. Jonah boyfriend. It's not perfect. My relationship with Seth with Lisette, it's not perfect. He is a lot. It's not perfect though. I think that Louis was taking some responsibility for how difficult the partnership is himself, but all the stat herd was I'm the problem. Funny enough, by the way, that was about two weeks, I think, before Taylor

Joel: Swift released her anti hero song, which I am convinced is her o to Lisai. Hey, it's me. I'm the problem. It's me. Yeah. But I mean, Lisai, that's what that is absolutely what List Not heard. I'm a lot. A hundred percent. He's not perfect. You know, he's a lot. He's not perfect.

Ashley: Yeah. I mean, you're just the way if you don't feel comfortable or confident in your relationship. And in that moment, he clearly followed his boyfriend out in the woods. Because he thought his boyfriend was gonna get it on with someone else. And that's exactly what happened, and he heard some things that hurt his feelings.

Joel: Like some creeper. Like

Ashley: some creeper in the bushes with his muddy boots.

Joel: I merge your hearts dancing.

Ashley: Oh, god. It's so dramatic. I love it. Like, that sometimes he just gets hold of that scenery and I just Oh, Thank you, Sam. You're so good. He's so great.

Joel: You're so funny, though. Somebody mentioned it on Twitter today. Why didn't Louis throw it back at Listat about Antoinette? I heard your heart dancing, and I didn't even comment because I but I thought Lastatin, do we both know better? Lastatin and Antoinette's hearts never danced? No. That was that was a functionary relationship for listings. Right. Might have cared for her. Like, he cares for lots of people. Like, you care for a dog. Like, you care for you know, the little kid down the street that that you, you know, watch their tee ball antics with a a plumb and and enjoyment. That's not somebody you love. That's not your life partner. Leshat worried he saw a connection there fundamentally that he couldn't reach with Louis. And that was never gonna be the the case between Leshat and Antoinette. Right. Why, honestly. I think the the thing in the finale where Leshat says my love and Louis answers and he goes, I wasn't talking to you as Antoinette walks into the room. I think it's so it's not even really that cruel. It's just catty.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: Because Louie knows that he's not that's not his love. L'Estat knows that. And I think Antoinette knows

Ashley: it. Whatever which is that Anyway, everyone's just using everybody else to they're just all fucking with each other at that point. Back at episode three, when when our when our our guy Louie gets real thirsty and kills that douche bag Alderman Fenwick. And L'Estat is just delighted with this move. He's like, yeah, you did it, gross, messy thing. Yay. And he says, like, and Chrissy got out of control and aided aided a person again. And he says, we should make this our anniversary.ostat says that to Louis. We should make this our anniversary. This night that you killed the the altercation and left his body in front of the cathedral. Hello, man. And

Joel: race riots race

Ashley: rights have

Joel: broken out in the blocks surrounding our home.

Ashley: And it's the same night they end up making Claudia. So super fun night for everybody. Happy anniversary.

Joel: Let's move into episode four there. Nicholas Danielson, by the way, who has been one of our our greatest commenters. Nicholas has always got you there. This

Ashley: is the very damn beginning when we were just reading our books.

Joel: Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Nicholas says I am convinced. Here it was episode four. I'm convinced that Rashid is Armand. A little bit of discussion there, but that I looked. That's the first time in any of our comment threads that anybody brought up the Rashida's Armand Theory. I know a lot of people in the fandom talked about it as the series went on, but Nicholas was there on it early on. Jen Francisco Bikowski says, I love that we got Claudia's PoV in this episode. Mhmm. We got to see that loving side of Lestat and Louis relationship that Louis doesn't really talk about. And we got some insight on how horrible it is to be stuck as a vampire teenager. The death scene with Charlie was so sad Yeah. A handful of things there. First of all, it's again, in the whole rush of the season, you almost forget you've got that Claudia PoV. Which we did not expect. It's not exactly there in the book and yet here in the show they gave it to us. We do eventually read her diaries in Queen of the damned, and they come up again in Merrick. And so this is an example of them bringing those extra parts of the series that we know exist. Bringing those forward a little bit and applying to the to it to

Ashley: this Such good use of it too. It's such such good use of these of these journals because they just gave you the little teasingest insight into this character that I think a lot of us were really felt connected to and interested in, and that she had such a short part in this grand story. So, you know, like Claudia's gone and done, you know, fairly quickly in our world. And and so to get a little bit more insight into her character, with such a wonderful thing when you hit those points in those books. And then to get it a little bit more of it in the show is just awesome.

Joel: Yeah. No. Absolutely. And and Jen makes a great point there in that in the presentation here, we specifically get some of the most tender moments from Louis in the entire season. Come in those flashbacks from Claudia's perspective. Right. Really interesting when you frame it again, as this is a story being told by Louis under the watchful eye of his quote unquote love of his life, Arman. I mean, again, it just makes you wonder, like, whose story is this exactly? Because when Claudia is telling it, it was sort of different. You were a little wavy, dovey. Whereas, the rest of the time, he's always so distant. I mean, we talk about the fact that he never actually says I love you too.

Ashley: Right. Closeest

Joel: he gets The closest he gets to Lestat's face is or on screen at least, is in the finale episode when he calls him my love as he's handed him the poison boy. You know, now from Claudia's perspective, it is a little bit softer. Also, two other people and somebody pointed this out. He and Claudia talk about it as love. Their relationship listed out in Louis' relationship as love, but Louis won't bring that to Lesat or at least we don't see him do it when it's from his perspective. So, yes, I love that episode where we got so much Claudia And again, it did make if you think about it, they could have done the Charlie storyline without her diaries. But it wouldn't have had the weight. Right?

Ashley: Right. We

Joel: wouldn't have watched her

Ashley: You too much love. Build and you have to watch the build to it because she is having so much fun at the beginning of that episode where she's like, well, I thought I was dead, but these devil saved me. So here we go. And and she's having so much fun while she's still a kid, you know? And then she just literally, emotionally outgrows herself. It's this in the saddest way where it's just I can't even like, I can't even wrap my head around the shittiness of my my future, you know, but she has has had so much fun at the beginning of the episode, and they are also happy. And it is like it is it makes it all the more heartbreaking when things the wheels come off the bus, when she says, you know, all the easy times stopped.

Joel: Yes. Yeah. I I I was rereading this comment from episode five, from Liz, Liz Sakele. The deception is what keeps things interesting. Everyone is playing a character. Yeah. Everyone wants to be the main character of their own story. And everyone's PoV shifts the narrative. Trust, no worry. Right. Wait. We we talked about I think

Ashley: There are no reliable narrators.

Joel: Yeah. I think I think episode five was the what did I I think the the name of that is unreliable narrator of the TV's

Ashley: episode. Right.

Joel: I mean, that may as well have been the the name of this show. But that comes I think we that is even more so reinforced through that Claudia PoV, which which made by the way the little hint that we might get La Stott's Pov with with the La Stott handwriting inserts into the diary. Right. Even though that turned out to just be a proppier. Suppose of

Ashley: Suppose of

Joel: That made that all the more realistic and tantalizing because we had gotten Claudia's POV when we didn't expect it. And so those things sort of built one on the other. But

Ashley: this Well, and my thing was, like, I don't I never caught a good a good look. If the date if there was a date in there, And if she used every page in her books, but L'Estat had her diary, one of her diaries at some point, I mean, unlikely

Joel: he could have at his side.

Ashley: Just add funds where you know, written

Joel: something else. The diary's left. Any of the diaries left in New Orleans, he would have had probably for decades --

Ashley: Yeah. --

Joel: theoretically if he wanted them anyway. So so, yeah, it's I I think we still may I'm I'm gonna keep my inquisitive eyebrow rays.

Ashley: Yes. But they know which they just weren't they couldn't fuck with us with that. They're like, oh, shit. Can't put that clear of an Easter egg.

Joel: Yana Deidre LaSeva says, I wanna know what the first three rules were because

Ashley: they're almost

Joel: at back in.

Ashley: Right.

Joel: I I think he may have recorded his own voice version right then and there knowing or counting on how Louis would destroy the Antoinette version. Louis, poor ass vampire bond excuse for being fitfully jealous is adorable. The Internet affair sorta seems to me like Lestat's version of Claudia's who am I supposed to love outburst? With this intruder literally in his lover's head, even when they're supposed to be their most intimate, and him, Louis, actually listening to her. It is not surprising that L'Estat would look for aberration he craves elsewhere and keeping a piece on the side that gives it to him consistently is in line with that. As is using pieces of her, her voice, her finger, to try and keep his real family together. Such a veritable mixture of monster and human. Oh. Bravo. Yeah. We really some really good stuff Now I will say, I think the recording has to happen at a different time because the the and we talked about this in the comment thread too. The quality of the recording is different. There's full orchestration on the second one where it's just, you know, like a band instrumentation on the first one. I think those are at different time periods, and I think that hinted to another story for Louis and Listat that will get somewhere down the road. But otherwise,

Ashley: I I

Joel: think Yana had some really, really interesting insights there and there's so much from this whole back and forth of, you know, I love you and but this is what I want And, okay, that's great that that's what you want, but that's not what I need. All of those circular push and pulls on the relationships in here the Louis Claudia relationship, the L'Estat Claudia relationship, the L'Estat Louis relationships. In the future, the Louis Armand relationships, the Armand Daniel or Louis Daniel relationships, especially.

Ashley: Yeah. Don't shit where you eat my god. Yeah. I know. Sorry.

Joel: And then this one from Rachel Knott's. She says, all I'll say is, our mind.

Ashley: Oh, bless us all.

Joel: Adrian Harrison commented and said, I have to give props to Claudia though. I really disagree that Claudia is out of her realm regarding Lestat and that he is playing a game with her. I think she truly has played him. This was in episode six. The comment thread for episode six. She says, I think he's she's truly played him. I mean we know from the books that she tricks him outright.

Ashley: Right. The

Joel: only reason Lestat survives is because he has stronger powers than Claudia or Louis understood, not because he was smarter than her. If he had been younger or hadn't drank the ancient blood, he'd he'd have been toast. That's what's going to make the upcoming scene so delicious because L'Estat is really not gonna see this coming. And Adrian, you may have gotten a hint of what was coming in episode seven that the rest of us even overlooked even book fans. You know, Rowan had this sort of twisty turny narrative for the finale. We all thought the plan was X, and then Lestats into that plan. He knows that already has sussed it out. And so here's a second layer. What's so funny, Ashley, I noticed in some of the coverage that has come out in the past week. Sam apparently was convinced that the audience was gonna have smelled all of this out and know exactly where it was going. And he was impressed that it played out as well in the final version -- Oh. -- as it did.

Ashley: Oh, it's so great. Was

Joel: such a

Ashley: such a fun little a fun a fun twist to it. And it wasn't, you know, just up the stakes a little bit more. Not that it not that the situation needed it, but it did up the stakes a bit more.

Joel: Yes. Absolutely, it did. Jared Ratler, another frequent comment or some great thoughts from Jared throughout the season. He said about episode six. I loved this episode for Reed. Is such a weird inclusion. I was really hoping for Armand or Marius. I sincerely hope that Rashid is not and here's a slight spoiler for the Prince La STATUE trilogy. I sincerely hope that Rashid is not a REVLIMID. And that the great convergence has nothing to do with the realms of Atlantis storyline that Anne Rice included in the final books. I hated that story element. Listen, Jared is not alone. Very frankly, it's it's some ancient alien shit.

Ashley: I'm not being real. You read that and I'm excuse me. I'm gonna have to go get some more information. In this effort, I'm gonna go look up some boilers for that. I was like

Joel: So there are -- What? -- there are three books in the in that modern trilogy, and the final trilogy.

Ashley: Yes. All of them in my house too. I

Joel: The Prince La Stat. Prince La Stat in the realms of Atlantis, and then and then Blood Community is the final one. Prince La Stat establishes the modern day storyline and circumstances, basically, and how all the vampires get to there. Very cool, mostly action oriented, awesome. There are things though that bleed in from that into the second book, realms of Atlantis, where this entire storyline takes place that actually gives us an even more ancient origin for the vampires. It takes us back from, you know, four thousand BC with Amel and Akasha we go back even before that and learn, oh, there's more to this story. Where does a bell come from? Uh-huh. And then and honestly, blood communion is, again, the events of blood community and flow out of the events of realms of Atlantis and and Priscilla Stott, and yet the these storylines, that sort of, like, what is the origin of Amel and that what happened before, those sorts of things don't really matter, honestly, in the final book. So a lot of people that don't like the Prince of Staten trilogy as a whole still end up really enjoying blood community and because it it takes that modern story line and like all the vampires now living in, you know, this chateau of of LaSace in his ancestral home. And yet, they don't include some of the ancient aliens shit that people kinda think is hokey. So I would I would counsel you that if you listen, that is a little hokey. I'll grant you. That's true. But is it any more hokey than, like, a million other things that happened in this series along the way that we've already gone through and because they happened in the seventies or the nineties or or the early two thousands, we're all just fine with them. I mean, guys, we've already talked about period blood. We've already talked about Jesus and the devil and Satan and Lisad has gone and visited all of them.

Ashley: Body switching.

Joel: So ancient aliens -- Yeah. -- right on park. I it's not that far off is all I'm saying. That's all I'm also, I find it interesting for her to do the things that she does. In realms of Atlantis while also having done the things that she does in MIMNOC the devil, while also having a Jesus that is actually the son of God in your universe. Like, all of those things together is like, I mean, did you think that all through, Ian? How does that all how does that all work exactly? But never yeah. That we've got a lot of books and a lot of seasons before we get there. So don't worry about it. Don't worry

Ashley: about the aliens. Yeah. It's gonna be fine, kids.

Joel: Look, we're gonna be seven, eight seasons in before ancient aliens is a concern at all. And at that point, I mean, look at what The Walking Dead has done in the last few seasons. You can go a lot of crazy places once your ten seasons in. Alright?

Ashley: Let's just wait for it. Search party had the best twist of all time.

Joel: So Right. Do you oh, you're, like, the third person the last few weeks who has mentioned search party to me. I guess I gotta go look at it. Is that does that feature watch maybe from arrested development? Is that is that the lead on that?

Ashley: Oh, I don't know because this is where I'm I'm gonna get out as someone who has not watched the rest of development. Yeah. What Oh

Joel: my goodness.

Ashley: I know. I know. There we go. The homework I'll I'll fix it. I'll fix myself. I'm sorry. Yeah. No. Search's pretty super fun, highly recommended. It's It's but it has it has the best, like, wild ass twist like that where you're just like, whoa. Let's know where I thought we were going. So I look

Joel: forward

Ashley: to Bailey.

Joel: There's there you go. You got a lot to look forward to. Right. Episode seven, the comment thread there was full of good stuff. Fe, Hugh, says R e Rashid Rahman. Are we going to see Rahman using a blender in season two? He was definitely taking on beverage and refill duty early

Ashley: and season one. So it might

Joel: already be a habit of his. Ashley, I had never we've all a lot of the fandom was like, oh, Rashid's Armand, and the and the other half of the Phantom would immediately go, Armand would never

Ashley: block you with longer than this

Joel: houseboy. ARMON would straight up be fascinated with the bar set

Ashley: up. And he wants to talk

Joel: about Shigen Martinez.

Ashley: And he Homemade. Episode three lurked in the damn background. Making drinks.

Joel: I had not thought about it, but here thank you. She was they were on it. They totally knew the

Ashley: answers. Oh. Alright. And then

Joel: in the as a as a horror. Excuse me. In says, but, honey, can we talk about that bitch list that when he walked down those stairs and away from the gaggle of women, my god. Okay. She's In's talking about here in the finale. He's in full regalia as as king. And he's coming down the stairs. There's a gaggle of women. Looks like they're in their forties and fifties probably. And they say, oh, mister Duluth, the own court, We're so good to see you. We've heard that you had been sick, and he's like, do I have a history with any of you? Like, he's so catty to them. And they're like, oh, we're the opera club, but it has been a decade or so, and they're all just like fainting for him. He quickly turns around at the bottom of the stairs. He's like, which one of you did I take? Under the stairs during that terribly boring speech. And I loved the woman in the front. She was like, oh, it was me. That was my husband speaking. My late

Ashley: My late

Joel: husband. But they're absolutely right, Ian. Got it. I mean, the amount of bitch that was that serves not just in that episode, but throughout the season. I

Ashley: was thinking

Joel: It is it is pretty

Ashley: true. He inhabits that costume just Oh, man. Brilliantly. Like that that his Mardi Gras tire was out of this world. When they did that pull out shot of him overhead. That was gorgeous, you know, where he's like, all in his full regalia and It was on the float still. It was amazing. I was like, you know how to wear a wig, sir.

Joel: Oh, man, here's a thought that I had during our off week day here. Last week, we did talk about the fact that the Mardi Gras Ball was such a great idea and how it seems like a kind of a waste that we never got that in the books or that that Anne hadn't thought about it. And we speculated we were like, isn't there something about carnival with David and Listat? Maybe I got this glimpse this week. You know the tracking shot at the beginning? I think it's at the beginning of Spectre with Daniel Craig during I think it's the day of the dead, not Carnival, but he's like walking through the crowd, in the mask, and you do the whole thing, and then he gets up on the building, and he goes across the rooftops and all that stuff and then the building explodes finally. I was like, that we start a season off like tail of the body piece. That season starts with L'Estat hunting carnival in Rio de Janeiro. Like, that's the that's the

Ashley: It's very But I don't know if you're getting off of the plane. Going to have a friend for dinner. I guess.

Joel: I'm gonna have a friend for dinner exactly. Alright. So Insed so so Insed yellow sat serving bitch. Rachel Knott says -- I knew it. I knew it. She's talking here about

Ashley: Armand

Joel: says also, also, Armand has absolutely mind fucked Louis and Daniel. Daniel has started unraveling his careful Daniel has started unraveling this with his careful or excuse me, Daniel has started unraveling the careful manipulation that Arman has laid on. This is so so good. Louis looked like he was being helplessly held at gunpoint in the at the end in those final moments. I've heard several people say that. It looks like you've got a, like, a blank faced Louie, as he says, meet Armand the love of my life. Rachel says, I am living Also, also, Arman doesn't have red hair. That's okay. He does have the botticelli curls and that beautiful face That is enough for me.

Ashley: Chiseled. Yes. Stowe. Stowe out.

Joel: There is

Ashley: Stowe.

Joel: I saw two Botticelli paintings directly like cropped in to show the main figure of of the the highlighted male and Sod's face put up against it. And, folks, it is it's about a jelly paste. Like, I don't know what to tell you. I understand everyone

Ashley: being nervous about about how our mom was going to be handled because someone had a really great comment in our group about about the the the miscasting the last time, and it was excellent. But, yeah, I think after seeing it being so so miscast, I mean, Antonio Bandaris was just a nugget of deliciousness in the nineties, and we needed him in every movie, but that was really off. And so I completely understand why people especially people that are fans of that character were a little nervous about how the casting of our mom was gonna go. But damn, they hit it out the park, just like everything else.

Joel: Right.

Ashley: What is it's not a whole thirty year old man in a lace front wig. That was I think that comment. I can't remember who said that in our group, but you are damn right.

Joel: So this is the last comment that I pulled out that I wanted to highlight. And I love this one. It's it's Thorough. He is part of a much larger piece from Nicholas Daniels, and I didn't take the whole thing. I wanted to take you very ending here because I thought it would be a good kind of summation as we head into our speculation about season two quickly. Daniel says or excuse me, Nicholas says in sum, The show does not, in any way, glorify Lestats and Louis relationship. Louis tries to. The abuse we see is what Daniel hears between the lines. What is obvious to anyone who watches them is a pattern. It is a story about love, but also a story about abuse, toxicity. More than anything, it's a story about oppression and the deception of memory. The way we try to define ourselves through narrative. God damn, I have toured this show. Fucked up as it might be, I felt like I've been reintroduced to a couple of childhood friends gotten to know them as adults and formed a whole new, more genuine relationship to them. Of course, most of my friends aren't blood sucking murder lovers, but I hope you get my point. Also, Arman's tolerance of the sun, I find absolutely ridiculous, and I think it's a stupid choice and they should not have done it. Lame. Boy. Okay. Listen. There are there are all sorts of reviewers of this show. There are all sorts of there are several podcasts you can listen to. There are a ton of people who are writing about it. There are people who do live streams about it. YouTube, your viewers, etcetera. I think that that is a good example of the take that Ashley and I are going to continue likely to bring to this. Listen, we're gonna watch it and we're probably gonna talk about it even if it really turns into trash.

Ashley: Oh, yeah.

Joel: I think what we've seen so far tells us it's never gonna turn into trash. It might not be what you and I want or would have done all in our own. And we're gonna talk about those times when it falls short, but we are also going to appreciate it for exactly what it is and what they're trying to offer us. And and Nicholas does it there. He talks about the things that annoys him simple things like like Arman's okay. Arman can walk in the sun. What does that mean exactly for some of the plot points that we're expecting as we move forward.

Ashley: Right. In

Joel: Lestat, can can can grown up fancy super powered Lestat, not get a suntan like he doesn't tell of the body. I think that kinda sucks. I like the idea that the old ones can get can get a suntan.

Ashley: Take care of themselves.

Joel: I mean, it's like the way that he describes it at the end of Till of the body thief. It's not much worse than us getting a tattoo today.

Ashley: Right? Like,

Joel: I'm going in there and it's gonna hurt for forty five minutes or an hour while I get my tattoo, or maybe you get a back done and it hurts for several sessions. But then you'll get to enjoy that tattoo the rest of your life. Okay? I can live a whole human life with a decent shade of of skin coloring

Ashley: instead of translucent white that I've tried

Joel: it too. Right. Right. All I gotta do is spend a day in the sun. Anyway, I I I wonder how they're gonna play that

Ashley: out. Yeah. Well, especially considering, you know, people setting themselves on fire eventually in the sun. Yes. You know what I mean? It's literally Yes. It was

Joel: very specific people.

Ashley: It's a very specific people. Yeah, exactly. So it it is it's very it's gonna be very interesting to see how they justify things, you know, I think that's something I do a lot in improv is justification. So I'm gonna be really excited to see how the yes and their way through and around some of the obstacles they have built for themselves.

Joel: I I I just I loved it. I'm with Nicholas. Goddamn. I love this shit. I've just adored it so much. It is

Ashley: By the way, if it hurts tid to trash, I'm gonna hate watch it so hard. So I don't think my things. The accent will be less for it than what it is. I'm just gonna really hate it. So, like, I am prepared to go the full distance with this. Even if it goes, shit heals up.

Joel: I've I've seen every X Men movie.

Ashley: I know it's not like

Joel: I'm I'm here. Right?

Ashley: I've eaten every bit of Lucasfilm content that has been given to me. Repeatedly.

Joel: I mean, you and I've watched, you know, the damned, probably

Ashley: Oh, my god. Four, five Four times, you know, probably should. Yeah. Exactly. Definitely

Joel: more than more times than you

Ashley: should. Okay, man. Let's

Joel: get to our season two. Let's get to our season two speculation here. And then just a reminder, We will be back with some discussion next week, two live streams, the twenty first to the twenty eighth, on the Dorian app. Check out the link and the show notes to to get that. And join us for those. We're gonna talk about adaptation on the twenty first. We're gonna talk about toxicity on the twenty eighth. Season two speculation, Ashley, What are you big thoughts? Where are we going?

Ashley: Well, we're going to Paris. I think we have to be going to Paris. And I think that because we've gotten we got those teases. About, you know, the the way the soldiers tasted and things like that. I think that, like, that's kind of like a checkoffs gun type situation. You just maybe and maybe we don't. Maybe we maybe we I don't know hell. But I think we're going to Europe. Obviously, I think we're going to Paris. I think we're gonna meet our wand in that time period fairly quickly. And I think things will probably end with the big I don't know

Joel: I don't

Ashley: know where they're gonna end it. Depends on how they go into season three fingers crossed. You

Joel: know, something that occurred to me in this last week is something that L'Estat says, I think, in episode six, at the end of episode six. He tells Claudia luckily for our family when I want to, I can hear vampire's thoughts from a very great distance. How far can Armand hear vampiric thoughts? Can does this Armand seek them out in Eastern Europe before they ever get to Paris. Oh. Is this Armando the reason they go to Paris? I

Ashley: don't know.

Joel: Does he encounter them there and bring them to Paris and stuff? I

Ashley: don't know. You know, there's that

Joel: just occurred to me that it's a possibility.

Ashley: That would see and I get how you would go there because you hate him so much. But, like, I think part of the deal with with Armand and and the way things turn out with Claudia and Louis and our mind and L'Estat. I think that L'Estat has to be their has to be the one that drives that

Joel: I

Ashley: think that that's really because there has to be a real reason that's that's horrible enough for Louis to truly break with him for a a good amount of time. You know what I mean? Like, he already gets the shit beat out of him and he's almost killed, but he does, you know, begrudgingly accept him back eventually, and they do decide to kill him, but he is just throws him into into a coffin he can get in and out of, into into a dump. So to me, it's like there has to be something to drive a wedge between them to get us to the point where our Louis would ever refer to Armand as the love of his life.

Joel: I I do think the two of them are likely to see each other in season two, even in the flashback storyline, the the --

Ashley: Yeah. -- two I I I agree. I think

Joel: But I wonder if that won't be until the basically, the resolution of the thing. I wonder if we won't get even if we don't actually get the the vampire Lestat, the storyline where, you know, we see his mortal life compressed into season two as well, even if that's pushed off for the future. I don't think they're gonna sit Sam on the sidelines. First of all, Sam's a huge fan base --

Ashley: Yeah. -- that

Joel: they're gonna wanna serve, but also I mean, Sam's a great actor and that character is fantastic. You can't have anyone sitting out there for a whole season or or, you know, let's say, five episodes or

Ashley: Of your eight.

Joel: Without bringing him in.

Ashley: Yeah. That would really suck. I

Joel: do think

Ashley: it's really likely that we get that kind of cross cross view where we'll get some from from the perspective of Lestats, some from the perspective of Louis and Armand and this kind of shit heap of a world we're in now.

Joel: But I think it's entirely entirely possible that our man could be interacting with each of them while the other isn't even aware that they're present for a lot of the Paris story. Like, I think that could go several episodes even where Leshat is interacting with our wand and maybe the rest of the coven. And Louie is interacting with our wand and the rest of the coven, but they are kept in the dark Well,

Ashley: that's that's how it happens. Isn't it? In the I mean, is that that's how it happens in the box. Yeah. Yeah. But that's I don't I I

Joel: think in the book, they're I think in the book, they're never even actually confronted with each other because Armand tells both of them afterwards, Armand tells L'Estat that Louis has been killed as well as Claudia and are Montels Louis that L'Estat is dead. And both of them leave Paris believing that to be the case. Louis doesn't understand that L'Estat lived until, like, the nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties when he when he finds him in New

Ashley: Orleans. Yeah. You know,

Joel: in like that decrepit state.

Ashley: Yeah.

Joel: So I mean, that's that's the scene that you get in in The end of In the movie, they they do it with the the helicopter comes down. And, you know, like, shines into the God, that's a great scene.

Ashley: That is This really has a lot of

Joel: good scenes. But that is that is one of the best ones I think. Anyway, I think that we'll get that level of interaction. Maybe there's interaction for them at the trial, and then I think we get one scene afterwards that sort of hints at where Listat goes after all of this is resolved. I'm assuming that Listat's been sleeping for a while. Maybe even up until the present day, but I think that's where that starts --

Ashley: Yes. --

Joel: their final interactions of season two. My question though is, my primary question honestly going into season two is how many book events have already happened by twenty twenty two. Right. Has Akash's story happened? Has Rockstar list out already happened, etcetera? Has to tell that the body thief happened. I'm fairly certain that has I don't see it. Queen of the damned is the one that I'm really questioning.

Ashley: I don't think it has because they keep talking about, like, this this being I feel like this is gonna be the event maybe that

Joel: I

Ashley: don't know. Maybe this is the event that wakes her up. This book being published and and it's this whole noise of all of that instead of Listat as a, you know, a rock star. And that might be a way they circumvent that whole potential messiness because they they do talk about so much about, like, you know, this is basically suicide by book, you know, suicide by vampire is what is happening if he publishes this and and that it's going to they're gonna come here and they're gonna crawl up the walls, you know. And that just sounds like a real like, this is gonna be one of those earth shaking, earth shattering kind of moments in time.

Joel: Man, I hadn't thought about it before, but, actually, just as you were saying it just then, and maybe, again, this is just my Armand hate How much of that is Arman blowing smoke up Louis' book? Oh, could totally be. Could kill you if you write this book? Yeah. The only one that could protect you The only place you're safe is if you stay here in the

Ashley: Absolutely. You know? That's our guy. Sure.

Joel: Interesting. So my my primary question though going into season two, other than that, is are we gonna get the Vampire Lestat as part of season two, that mortal life of of Lestat? Or are we gonna have to wait still longer to actually meet Nikki, to actually meet Gabrielle, is that is that still a season three project? My hope is that we get it sooner rather than later just because I'm jealous of it. I want to see those things. I wanna have it in my head

Ashley: space. Yeah.

Joel: On the flip side though, I am trepidation that you've got enough run time in an eight episode season to do those things

Ashley: properly. In

Joel: particular, the relationships with Nikki and Gabrielle to do those properly and also tell all of the story that we have in Europe between Claudia and Louis and Armand. I don't know. It's a lot of stuff to get to. We've got seasons to come. You know, I and and then, of course, I'm still on board saying, I think we need a list that titled series at some point. So

Ashley: Oh, yeah.

Joel: You know, do you save that stuff? Do you keep it back and make those folks all series regulars on on Listat series when you spin it off three or four down the road?

Ashley: Yeah. I mean, there's so many different directions I can go. I don't want them to I don't want them to underserve one story to tell another story more quickly than they should if that makes sense. I got something where a lot of, like, Game of Thrones kind of went went wrong for a lot of fans that were reading those books. Like Jesus. You know, there's a lot of material you could work through here without rushing ahead to the books that haven't been written yet, dude. You know? So I think that I I don't want them to rush in the wrong way, but I am anxious to get to the, you know, to get to the next stories. It's we're gonna get greedy. Hopefully, they churn out the content and we get to stay greedy.

Joel: I that's that's thank you for my show title. I appreciate that. I don't wanna rush. But I am. That's that's it.

Ashley: Biography.

Joel: Folks. That's the way we feel about it. That's the way we feel about it, man. Alright. I I tell you how we feel about it. We love we love the show. We love what AMC is doing. I love the Amcor universe. Some new some new teasers out this week. For Mayfair, which is, by the way, looks really good. A few little hints at some things that I hadn't seen in earlier trailers, but maybe giving me a little bit more of a glimpse I feel like on where that story's headed. I'm excited to talk about that book with you

Ashley: soon. Yeah.

Joel: And, of course, get to the series in January. So

Ashley: Well And

Joel: folks, read up on

Ashley: I was gonna say, read up. And and if you haven't really dabbled in the Mayfair which is yet, and and you don't really you look at that book and you're like, I don't know. Just, you know, jump into the show. I think it's gonna be I mean, if if if interviews of vampires any indication, it's gonna be amazing. And it's gonna be well done. It's gonna be well cast gonna be well produced, and it's gonna be an absolute awesome ride for all of us. So I think that even if it's not your cup of tea yet, give it a little nibble and see what you think. Or or honestly, if the if the book is

Joel: daunting to you, you know, listen to our episode about

Ashley: it. Oh, yeah. I've

Joel: a month or two. Whenever we get that out, listen to our episode, and then here's the thing. While we may spoil certain specific events or connections from characters, from the book world for you. First and foremost, we haven't seen the TV series yet either and won't when we discuss the book. So just as with the interview of the vampire, our book knowledge can be informative to the potential paths for the series, but it is not you know, a direct one to one correlation. And so we're always still surprised as

Ashley: well. I'm

Joel: sure that'll be the case for the Mayfair which is

Ashley: Our month's never been making people cocktails in the background. Mhmm. What's not his move?

Joel: No. No. That's absolutely true. I will say this, the Mayfair, which is like the Vampire Chronicles, are full of very complicated

Ashley: care case,

Joel: very challenging and sometimes taboo storylines. And yet, they're also full of very human relationships. Human villains and human heroes who fail and try again and are always interesting and compelling in the ways they run up against each other.

Ashley: Absolutely. And are and that are rich and interesting characters that you'll and and that you'll also some of them you'll see in in bits of the vampire chronicles going forward as well. So it's gonna be really interesting, and I think there's lots of opportunity as we've discussed a little bit for crossovers. So I'm looking forward to that sort of experience. A little bit of maybe a little Easter eggs we get in in from one season to another in between our in between our worlds.

Joel: Me too. Me too. Exciting day is to be a fan, absolutely. Ashley, thank you so much for spending time with me this

Ashley: evening. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Watching

Joel: all of this stuff and talking about it. Thank you to all of you who have been listening. You've given us this great feedback. Thanks especially to everybody who we got to highlight and mention in this episode. If if we didn't mention your feedback, trust me that doesn't mean we didn't love you. There was just really literally a mess.

Ashley: Oh my god.

Joel: Fun of it. To go through today and in the last couple of days to pull those highlights. So I I tried to get a little smattering of everybody and give an example of some of the great conversations that you can't have. I absolutely again, I understand if you don't wanna be on Facebook. But if you're on Facebook, Come join the group. You're gonna have a good time there. I promise you links in the show notes. Until the next time we talk to you, make sure and get the Dorian app and join us for our live streams on the twenty first and the twenty eighth, five o'clock PM East Coast Time. Until then, we've been your hosts.

Ashley: Ashley Wright Eiler.

Joel: Module sharpener, and this is the articulate cover. Thanks for listening to the Articulate Coveen. You can join our community on Facebook by following the links in the show notes or searching for articulate coven on Facebook. You can subscribe to the show in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or at articulatecoven dot com. And share us with your Am Rice loving friends.

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