In this episode we are joined by our distinguished guest, Daniella Kahane. As the co-founder and CEO of WIN Women, Daniella shares her journey from a successful career in filmmaking to her commitment to fostering women's voices in business.

Throughout the conversation, we explore the significance of collaboration and relationship-building among women, emphasizing the need to merge our personal and professional lives for mutual benefit.

Daniella elucidates her experiences and insights, particularly regarding the challenges women face in negotiation, and advocates for a shift in mindset that embraces negotiation as a tool for connection rather than confrontation.

This episode serves as a clarion call for women to recognize their intrinsic value and the necessity of advocating for their needs in various contexts, thereby paving the way for a more equitable future.

***Join Daniella and Coco at the WIN Summit on May 16th in NYC! ***

🎟️ Use my code COS25 for an exclusive 25% off your ticket! 

Spots are limited → www.winsummit.com/2025

Guest Spotlight:

Daniella Kahane is a Peabody Award-winning filmmaker and the Co-founder and CEO of WIN Summit (Women in Negotiation), an organization dedicated to empowering women through negotiation training and leadership development.

Before co-founding WIN, Daniella built a distinguished career as a filmmaker and content producer, with her work featured at prestigious festivals such as Sundance, Tribeca, Toronto, Telluride, and SXSW. 

Daniella is also an angel investor in female-founded brands and co-founder of ATOOF, a luxury artisanal Judaica company. She holds degrees from Barnard College and Columbia University's School of the Arts and has been recognized with the HBO Young Producer’s Award and as a runner-up for the Producers Guild of America Award.

Above all, she is proud to be the mother of three daughters, who she affectionately refers to as her most formidable negotiation partners.

Website: http://www.winsummit.com

Takeaways:

• Daniella discusses how pivotal life moments shaped her journey into film and women's empowerment through negotiation.
• The episode highlights the importance of blending personal and professional relationships to enhance networking opportunities for women.
• Listeners are encouraged to embrace their unique strengths in negotiation rather than conforming to traditional adversarial tactics.
• The hosts emphasize the significance of self-awareness in negotiation, urging women to prioritize their needs and aspirations.
• The conversation illustrates the value of experiential learning at the Wind Summit, where attendees will acquire practical skills for empowerment.

Chapters:

07:04 Defining Moments in Film and Leadership

19:36 The Power of Connection and Advocacy

32:51 Understanding Women's Unique Approach to Negotiation

48:17 Charting a New Course for Women in Leadership

Burning Questions Answered:

1.Why do most women feel uncomfortable negotiating—and how do we reframe that?

2.What makes negotiation a learnable, deeply human skill?

3.How can storytelling and emotional intelligence improve negotiation outcomes?

4.Why is defining your needs the first step to reclaiming agency?

5.What does it look like to raise daughters who know their worth?

Favorite Quotes:

“Negotiation starts with the self. You can’t steer yourself toward a destination if you don’t know what that destination is.” – Daniella Kahana

“Every negotiation is an opportunity to connect and problem-solve—not a battle to win.” – Daniella Kahana

“We’re building a new model of power—one where empathy and effectiveness go hand in hand.” – Coco Sellman

Closing Thoughts:

This episode is a masterclass in women’s leadership, negotiation, and the power of connection. Daniella reminds us that negotiation isn’t about conflict—it’s about clarity, compassion, and confidence. Whether you’re running a company, raising a family, or advocating for yourself, the skills to lead and negotiate effectively are within reach.

Guest Offers & Contact Information:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/daniellakahane/ 

Instagram:  https://www.instagram.com/daniellakahane/ ; https://www.instagram.com/winsummit/ ; https://www.instagram.com/atoof.co/ 

Websites: www.winsummit.com, www.winwoman.com, atoofcollective.com

 Negotiation Workbook - Six Powerful Scripts & Tips For Your Next Salary Negotiation: https://www.winsummit.com/six-scripts

Follow the #WisdomOfWomen show for more inspiring stories and insights from trailblazing women founders, investors, and experts in growth and prosperity.

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Amazon Prime: https://tinyurl.com/366syddj 

Apple Podcasts: https://tinyurl.com/bdhananz 

RSS Feed: https://feeds.captivate.fm/womengetfunded/ 

Coco Sellman, the host of #WisdomOfWomen, believes business is a force for good, especially with visionary women at the helm. With over 25 years of entrepreneurial experience, she has launched five companies and guided over 500 startups. As Founder & CEO of A Force for Good, Coco supports purpose-driven women founders in unlocking exponential growth and prosperity. Her recent venture, Allumé Home Care, reached eight-figure revenues and seven-figure profits in just four years before a successful exit in 2024. A venture investor and board director, Coco’s upcoming book, *A Force for Good*, reveals a roadmap for women to lead high-impact, high-growth companies.

Learn more about A Force for Good:

Website: https://aforceforgood.biz/ 

Are Your GROWING or PLATEAUING? https://aforceforgood.biz/quiz/

FFG Tool of the Week: https://aforceforgood.biz/weekly-tool/ 

The Book:  https://aforceforgood.biz/book/ 

Growth Accelerator: https://aforceforgood.biz/accelerator/ 

Welcome to the Wisdom of Women Show.

We are dedicated to amplifying the voice and wisdom of women in business.

A new model of leadership is emerging and we are here to amplify the voices of women leading the way.

I am your host Coco Salman, five time founder, impact investor and creator of the Force for Good System.

Thank you for joining us today as we illuminate the path to unlocking opportunities and and prosperity for women led enterprises by amplifying the voice and wisdom of women.

So today we have a rock star in our midst.

I am so excited to introduce you to Daniela Kahana.

She is a Peabody Award winning filmmaker and the co founder and CEO of WIN Women.

That's W I n Women in Negotiation, an organization dedicated to empowering women through negotiation training and leadership development.

Before co founding win, Daniella built a distinguished career as a filmmaker and content producer with her work featured at prestigious festivals such as Sundance, Tribeca, Toronto, Telluride and South by Southwest.

Daniella is also an angel investor in a female founded in female founded brands and co founder of a luxury artisanal Judaica company.

She holds degrees from Barnard and Columbia and has been recognized with the HBO Young Producers Award and as a runner up for the Producer Skilled of America Award.

Amazing.

Above all, she is a proud mother of three daughters who she affectionately refers to as her most formidable negotiation partners.

I love it.

Welcome Daniela.

Thank you Coco.

It's an honor to be here with you.

Oh, it's so fun.

And so my first question always is, what is one book written by a woman that has significantly influenced your life?

I love that you start with this question because I was an English major in college and reading has been such a through line in my life, although I feel like I have very little time for it these days.

I would say, and this is, you know, I could pick a book from my childhood or my adolescence or.

But this one is.

This one is probably like Teenage formation years.

And that would be Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.

It is a book that has stayed with me since the time I read it as a teenager till today.

I just love it so much.

I think it's the honesty that she writes with, but not just the honesty, the wit and the humor that she brings to her biting critique of class and gender.

At her time she was so ahead of her time, but in a way that was endearing and not off putting.

I love it, obviously.

And it's also obviously one of the greatest romance stories of all time.

I love that you brought up Jane Austen and it's Such a.

It's.

It's great.

I haven't read Pride and Prejudice in a really long time and it makes me want to go back to it and enjoy it again, especially in these times I feel like is still applicable to get today and all that's happening.

Actually, it's also quite delightful.

And you know, you have this incredible.

Character who's so indelible, who is sort of outside of her time, who speaks her mind, who's so smart and strong willed, but yet also feminine and wants to find the ideals of love.

It's not like, let's throw the baby with the bathwater.

And then you have this beautiful relationship that is built on the foundation of the possibility of growth and evolution.

So there's so much about it that I love.

It's like that kind of book that I can go back to and read dozens of times and not get bored of it.

Yeah.

Remind you, you know, it's helpful.

It's a hopeful story and all right, well, I love that you shared Jane Austen.

So as we go on to our conversations, I just have to say how lovely it is to spend this time with you.

Daniella and I met at one of Carrie Kirkman's events from the Whisper group.

We went to an event one evening and got to put together flower arrangements together as a job.

It was so fun.

Right.

And I love how women connecting in these ways.

It helps that it's our golf club where we run these collections, which we.

Don'T have, Nephas, which we don't, you know, have space enough for in our lives.

Like, this is such a.

This is a hot topic for me because I find when I look at my spouse or his network or how they socialize, they are constantly fusing the business and the social.

There's just this natural kind of meshment that makes things so much more productive for them in terms of their personal and professional lives.

Whereas we as women have been conditioned to historically to compartmentalize our relationships.

We have our work friends and we have our childhood friends and we have our mommy friends and we don't fuse them.

And so it's like trying to make time for all these disparate relationships and circles, but they're not feeding each other and it doesn't do us any good.

So this is.

I didn't mean to go on a tangent here, but this is.

I love events like, you know, that event because it is about the fusion of fostering relationships and friendship and powering each other's professional lives, which I think we need to do.

More if we could take a page from the male playbook that way.

Totally.

And so we're going to talk more about the Wind Summit that you are launching and have been doing now for 10 years.

Yes.

Another way for us as women to find each other, connect and learn how to network together, enjoy each other.

Right.

What are.

We have to invent our golf clubs?

Exactly.

They're holding the space for us to do that.

I think it's so cool that we met that way and that.

And we're continuing to foster relationship that way together.

And so I wanted to.

I like to ask about.

On that note, I'm so excited that you're going to be speaking at Wind Summit and sharing your thought, leadership and your experience, how you've found your footing through so many different iterations and accomplished incredible things.

I'm really excited to have you on stage as well.

Thank you.

Thanks for the opportunity.

So I would.

We, you know, I.

I think life choices and our journeys are a reflection of who we are, who we become, what we.

What we're proud of, what we stand for.

So I like to ask the question, what are two or three defining moments in your life that you feel brought you to where you are?

Sometimes these moments are old opportunities you say yes to.

Sometimes there are times when we stand our ground and say no more.

Sometimes it's overcoming a heartbreaking loss and finding that silver lining or accomplishing something that still fills you with pride.

Or if you have to come out of nowhere, what would be three of those moments that have powerfully shaped you and who you are today?

Such a great question.

I think I'm gonna have to use that in interviews.

Okay.

I think the first one would be my kind of fork in the road or decision to actually go into film, which happened sort of organically, but was very much unexpected.

Looking backwards, it makes a lot of sense.

Right.

I loved photography as a kid.

I loved having a camera in my hands.

I love being behind the camera and sort of seeing things through a frame.

I love putting on plays with my siblings.

I would direct them in plays all the time.

And I love stories.

So in the grander scheme of things, in terms of my upbringing, it made a lot of sense.

But I had no idea what I wanted to do professionally.

When I got to college, I didn't even know what I wanted to major in, to be honest.

That was part of the reason I wanted to go to a liberal arts college.

I ended up accidentally taking an intro film history theory class because it fit with my schedule.

My roommate said, oh, this was a really cool class.

And I was like, okay, I guess I'll take that.

It was not intentional.

I want to learn about film and the history and theory and I want to pursue it.

And I've never been really good with languages, to be honest.

I've taken Hebrew and Spanish for years and it just doesn't come naturally to me.

But I'm sitting there in that film intro history theory class and it was like learning a language that I intuitively already knew.

And it was so profound for me because I fell in love.

And I also just felt like, wow, I understand this cinematic language.

Like this makes sense to me.

It propelled me to take more classes and ultimately concentrate in film, get involved in film on campus, join the film club, start making films.

I ended up making a documentary as an undergrad that had a profound real life impact.

That was what led me to say, this is a really powerful medium.

I want to create films that have the ability to impact, empower and educate and do good in the world.

That led me to start my own production company when I graduated and pursue film in the first place.

So that was definitely a very important kind of pivotal moment.

Another one also with regards to film was I was living in New York and realizing that I didn't want to get pegged as only a dark filmmaker, which is, this is now, you know, almost 20 years ago.

It's.

The lanes were pretty separate and so I ended up moving to la and it was the brink of the writers strike and everybody was like, you are not going to get a job.

Don't go.

You have no job.

Like, wait this out.

This is a really bad time in the industry.

And I was determined.

I had a ticket and I said, nope, I have no security net, I don't have family in la.

I really.

I only had one friend in LA at the time.

I'm gonna sleep on her couch if I have to, but I'm going.

And I did.

And within two weeks, I had a life there.

I found a job which was in my mind a dream job.

Because I was working for a woman who was an Academy Award winning producer.

I figured she's gonna be my mentor and my fairy God boss into this industry and learning about the narrative side of things in the studio world.

I was so excited.

Unfortunately, the next pivotal moment was working for her.

I realized not all female bosses are ideal bosses.

And actually there could be a lot of toxicity with regards to that female leadership style, which is a lot to unpack there.

But it taught me what I don't want to be as a boss, as a leader.

And it also taught me how much needed to change about the industry, how toxic it was and how broken it was, especially for women.

That was my first experience.

I had interned at Miramax, but that was kind of rare for all.

This is my first experience steeped in that really masculine, toxic film world and realizing nobody's unscathed.

Just because she's a woman and she's a powerful woman doesn't mean that she's going to be that nurturing, kind, you know, mentor.

That was really pivotal because I ended up leaving after a year and change working for her, really having some ptsd, honestly, from it.

It was a really emotionally traumatic experience.

I had never been in an abusive relationship before, and this was that which unfortunately is all too common in the industry, but was very foreign to me.

That was a second pivotal moment because I think it planted the seeds for a lot of the work I'm doing in terms of healing that for women and the systems.

And.

And then the third one I want to share, and obviously there's so many.

And I can talk about the personal ones, too.

And the moment I met my husband, et cetera.

The third one, professionally, was actually related to Wind Summit.

I don't know if everybody knows this, but I came on as co founder two years into Wind Summit's operations.

I attended a very early Wind Summit, kind of just by fluke.

My co founder is a man and he is friends with my husband.

He invited me and I said, that sounds interesting.

I have a break in my day.

I'm gonna go.

I went, introduced myself to him, and he immediately puts me on the spot.

And he says, I know you're a filmmaker.

The woman that was supposed to interview the speakers today, unfortunately called in sick.

Would you be willing to do it?

And knowing nothing about this summit or the speakers, I said yes.

It was such an incredible day for me because it really was an aha moment.

It was like a light bulb going off where it clarified and crystallized all these things that I knew to be true in a fuzzy way in the back of my head, but connected dots in a way that was like, oh, this is why.

I actually feel much more comfortable doing these things, advocating for these things than many of my friends.

And this is why they carry this baggage around that I don't have.

And how important is it to try to help lighten the load that way?

Like, why are we having these.

Why are.

Why are we having these disparities around this skill?

It was an incredible light bulb for me.

In terms of understanding my own background and my own makeup psychologically, and then wanting to use that to support women as kind of serendipity life happened.

I walked out.

And so I sat, you know, and spoke to these incredible thought leaders, academicians and business leaders, about the power of negotiation in their life.

All these connections are happening in my head and I'm like, wait.

I didn't ever think about the things I'd been doing as negotiation.

I really never thought about negotiation.

I never took a formal negotiation course.

But that's what I'm doing.

That's like, that's why I'm good at what I do.

And I walked out of the summit and one of my friends calls me and she's in a terrible mood.

I said, what's wrong?

She said, well, you know, I'm doing this independent consulting for this company.

We agreed to a rate and now a month into it, they are trying to cut the rate by.

And my friend is not the most assertive person.

I said, so what are you gonna do about it?

She said, what can I do about it?

I'm like, wait a second.

No, you're not.

And I put everything that I had been talking to these speakers about and really worked it through with her, strategized with her and gave her the pep talk she needed to go assert herself.

She came out of that retaining what she was owed.

I don't think she would have had that conversation had we not spoken and had I not kind of just come out of this immersive environment.

It was this beautiful domino effect of the power of these conversations, creating space for the awareness of this skills gap and how much it holds us back as women.

Fast forward a few weeks later, my co founder ended up asking me to come on board and push me for the job.

That's how I ended up coming on as co founder and ultimately CEO.

That was a pivotal moment because it was not something I said, oh, going to start this company and you know, or I'm going to apply for this job.

It was really life intersecting, you know, with fate and being able to seize opportunity when it comes into your life and it feels right.

Wow.

I love these moments you've shared.

Getting to listen to you talk about it, it makes me think about how great lives are built.

Right.

And.

And like, so you.

I love that you started out in college, not sure what you wanted, and randomly you ended up in this film class.

So much about finding out who we are is through exploration.

It's about curiosity I work with a lot of times I work with Mama Gina.

I don't know if you know Mama Gina, but she's Regina Thomasauer.

She talks about doing pleasure research.

We are so used to playing the three keys of the keyboard of the piano.

And sometimes we just have to go and take a film class or listen to like crack just to sample whatever we don't normally do.

And you never know what you might come across that brings you joy.

Well, it also literally changes your brain, right?

When we do the same things over and over, whether that's taking the same route home from work or walking the kids to school the same way, or eating the same foods or.

Right.

Thinking in the same patterns, we narrow our mind in a way that doesn't encourage ourselves to really think creatively or grow new synapses.

Right?

And so I think that's kind of what that's coming from on a brain chemical wave you launch where you decide.

You want to expand beyond documentaries and you move to LA at the worst possible time when everybody is not selling.

And I do think that these moments of following your gut and not playing just say all the time, these are marks, these are like cheetah spots, right, of leaders and women who live outrageously wonderful lives.

We're curious, we explore, we follow our guts, we do things evil when people tell us not to.

And then you have this moment where you intersected with something you really didn't want.

And I think that's also really important.

Like, we find along the way these negative experiences, toxicity, the relationship we don't want, and it helps us, right?

No.

I tolerated this for a year and this is it.

I've done everything I can do and I am getting the truck out of here.

And, you know, now I have that contrast.

What I like, what I don't know, I can do something about it and not a victim.

So, like, I love that.

Curiosity, exploration, following your gut, saying no to a toxic situation and making the world better because of it.

And then you come along and these opportunities just land this win.

Women landed in your lap in a sense, right?

I mean, not really.

I said yes and I said yes to speak to the speakers and I said yes to the herculean task of putting this together and fighting for this.

Because it has not been easy, right?

And when I came on board, it was a good proof of concept in terms of there was clearly a need for this, but there was no brand, really.

And so I built it from the ground up.

At that point, it has not been easy.

Covid was, you know, can we even survive this?

And Then now the pushback on women's initiatives and anything that falls into the DEIA world.

Right.

It's been really challenging.

But again, the thing that keeps me going is the mission.

It's the belief in this is important.

This is necessary for women.

And it's the positive feel of those moments of connection, growth and empowerment when we are able to find those rooms with each other and support one another.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more.

It's a gritty time for us all.

We have to.

We have to stay resolute and keep marching forward.

And it's.

I know you've shared with me it's been really hard to get sponsors and all the things because it's just fallen off the company.

The, you know, the mark of what's topgitter.

Right.

The point where companies are scared to support something that says payment or empowerment.

Empowerment in it.

Right.

Anything like that are like, no, no, no, we can't put the spotlight on that.

And so it's really been very challenging right now for company that.

To support women.

Well, I am so glad that you are staying resolute and being gritty and moving forward and doing it.

The Wind Summit is going to be so fun and so empowering.

And I know you're a storyteller and I also know that you like tangibility.

You like things to have real action.

So talk to us about that balance of storytelling, leadership, advocacy and that distilled action.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's a fusion.

Right.

Because without story, you are a robot.

Right.

You lose people in the linearity of the facts, but not necessarily sweeping them up into the emotion.

I think a lot about effective communication is how do you take somebody along for the journey.

Right.

How do you make somebody care or invested?

And for me, actually, when it comes to negotiation, I don't see it as an adversarial thing.

I credit my mother for this.

I grew up with a mother who is a psychologist.

She has a specialty in child psychology.

But she has an innate, innate gift, honestly, in terms of connecting with people.

And so I would watch her as a kid and the way she operated in the world and the way she sought to connect with people wherever she was, whether that was checking into a hotel and, you know, trying to get an upgrade or, you know, talking to a teacher of mine or really any kind of interaction.

I saw her in something that was very innate in terms of this ability to advocate for her own needs and for the needs of others around her, but through connection, through human interaction and empathy and relatability I remember once we checked into the airport and it was too late to check our ass or something.

A lot of people, right, Airports are very the environments and a lot of people would be standing there and getting into this power struggle with the attendant about the fact that they could get on the plane with their back.

And my mother was able to sort of neutralize that and connect to them and like empathize with them about how hard of a day they were having.

They ended up doing her a favor and making it work.

And it was just like moments like that where I kind of realized every, every negotiation is really an opportunity to connect and solve, to find a win win.

I think that's the fusion of it all.

The story is the river that runs through it, right.

It's the thing that's carrying you.

But then the skills are the, the kind of tangible kind of aspects of it that allow you to tell a meaningful story in a way that is actually take you somewhere.

Right.

And when you, when you talk about, store.

For me, it's like there's, there's basic tenets of right, the story guidance in terms of the hero's journey or the stops along the way that make for a good story.

Like what actually captivates an audience.

And that's why I never really loved these.

I think you're in some films that, you know, you kind of go know my point of view, but don't get your, your frozen ticket.

Oh, am I back now?

You're, now you're good.

So.

So for me, that's what it's about.

It's having the confidence and the skills in terms of what is the right strategy, what work do I need to do in advance to understand the needs behind the position and then doing it in a way that is about connection, relatability, empathy.

It's great.

And though I love how you sort of said that you connect, you problem solve and you find the win win.

And the story is a river that runs through it.

It's really masterful, it's artful, it's scientific.

It's all of the things that you would write.

So it's learnable.

It's learnable and yet it's nuanced.

Right?

So right.

For instance, when we talk about self worth and women, let's say we have a performance review every year and women want to go in prepared but often feel uncomfortable about that process.

For starters, usually don't do the necessary work in advance to actually go in with their best footing.

Right.

In that example, if we do workshop in Terms of advocating for your worth or uncovering your value.

When we talk about the value statement of helping women parse why they deserve this promotion or raise or how they make it clear to their supervisor the actual tangible things they have accomplished for the organization company that year, as opposed to just listing those off, it helps to share it in a way that is a meaningful narrative.

When you talk about bringing it down to a concrete example, that's the perfect capsule because you're bringing somebody along for that journey.

This is what happened and this happened and I wasn't sure if I was going to be able to do this through X, Y and Z.

You, you're sharing it in a way that, oh, I'm feeling that for this person, not just hearing them.

Right.

Share the kind of top line.

Oh, and I did X, Y or Z.

It way more and memorable.

Well, and I'm thinking about it too for founders and how the same conversation takes place, whether it's a sales conversation or a conversation with a person that works on their team or somebody or an investor.

A potential investor.

Right.

Especially because women are often asked questions that put you on the defense, put you sort of, you know, needing to scoop your way out of defending yourself.

Right.

Absolutely right.

Yeah.

It's transferable.

Yes, very transferable.

What is it with women have historically nervous about negotiation?

We don't see negotiation as one of our strong skills.

I mean, think about that and what do you think the myths are?

I had no idea what the statistics out there were around this.

And honestly, there's not enough research.

So we've been conducting our own research for the past seven years around women in negotiation.

Anecdotally, from our interactions with women through the survey we've been doing, it's greater than.

And 95% of women do not like negotiating.

It's an astoundingly high percentage.

And I think that comes down to the history of negotiation.

Right.

The majority perspective on negotiation is, like I said earlier, it's adversarial, it is combative.

And when I start a workshop or if we're doing a brainstorming, I just say like, what's the first word that comes to your mind when you think of negotiation to remove women?

Typically it's negative and it has that kind of sparring connection.

And that comes from this traditional zero sum game, winner takes all approach.

But that is not the only model of effective negotiation.

Yes, there is certainly hardball negotiation tactics and there are bad actors out there and there are people that you will have to negotiate with who will employ things like that.

And you better know how to navigate that or diffuse it.

But it's not how you need to negotiate.

And it's certainly not everybody.

Many people prefer to approach it through a win win collaborative lens.

Not how do I take the most of this pie that I can, but how do we effectively break up this pie to create more pie?

That is, I think, the necessary shift in terms of mindset where as a woman you can negotiate successfully your way.

You can use the skills or the talents or the natural, you know, kind of abilities that you have.

Whether that's, you know, you're a really good listener or you have deep empathy, or you're a great problem solver.

Right.

Those underpinnings are critical for successful negotiation.

Use those to power your negotiation.

If you're not a manipulative person, don't try and be manipulative in negotiation.

Right.

If you're not like an adversarial kind of, I, I want to, you know, debate, whatever.

Don't try and do that.

Pull on your strengths to power your negotiation and do it your way.

I think that's one of the fundamental reasons why wind needs to exist, because oftentimes I'll hear from women.

You know, I took a negotiation course once.

It was led by a male instructor and I totally didn't resonate with what he was saying.

I read this book on negotiation and I felt like, wow, it's amazing that he can employ those, you know, strategies and do them so smoothly and effectively to consumerly.

But that's not my style.

Right.

I think helping women understand that there is not a one size fits all in this, but just the ability to kind of shift their headspace of, oh, I can actually grow my negotiation skills.

And that's obviously adopting a growth mindset around it, which is so important.

And also the awareness that it's not just a once in a blue moon thing that they need to do, you know, take out of the closet and dust off once a year around performance or salary or maybe a little more often if they're in a sales role, but actually that they are doing this every day throughout their day with their spouse or significant other or their children or their dry cleaners or, you know, their, their friends.

Seeing all those interactions through the lens of negotiation enables somebody to feel, feel more confident when they get into the high stakes negotiation conversations to be able to understand, okay, how do I navigate this?

What are my needs in this?

What are this person's needs in this?

How do we come up with a kind of merry middle so to speak.

How do we find a good solution out of this?

And so, yeah, that is definitely Win's mission to reframe and rebrand negotiation for women.

I love it, what you're saying.

It resonates with me because I feel like women have always been powerful, but we've always done it from the backseat.

So we've had to employ very different strengths in getting our needs met.

And so, like, the man's way of this is how we're going to do it.

And I'm driving the car.

We've had to do it another way.

And that's how it's been acceptable for society, and that's how it's been groomed into us to be acceptable.

Now we're being asked to do these different things that frankly, when we do it that way, we don't feel right about it and the world doesn't like it.

Right.

We're not even.

We're the bitch.

Right.

We're.

So we have to find this other way that's authentic and then move into the other stretches of what we can take on in terms of power.

Right.

And direct power.

Yep.

Is a really like.

It's like the outer layer of an onion.

And what is women's worth and what is women's.

Exactly.

And that's the other reason why it needs to be taught through a gendered lens, I think, because men can't come into that conversation and tell women all the things that they should be doing.

That just feels when it cuts directly to your self worth.

Like, you need to have somebody who understands that and understands the baggage that we carry around this wonderful.

Unpack for us a couple of tips, a couple of ideas that we can take home and our listeners can use on your wisdom and negotiation.

Oh, boy.

How do I pick?

I mean, number one is don't fear the no.

I think so many times it holds us back in terms of our ability to even ask.

Maybe even before that, we need to get clear on what our needs are.

I should start with that because we always say negotiation starts with the self.

It's looking in the mirror in any given situation.

We're so used to as women, we're conditioned to show up for the other.

We're conditioned to say, what does everybody else need in this situation?

Is my kid okay?

Is my husband okay?

Is my friend okay?

And that obviously is a beautiful trait.

And also it often prevents us from being able to give ourselves the oxygen we need to thrive.

And oftentimes it's like too little too late.

Right.

And then you Lose it.

And you're like, wait, why am I blowing up and losing my shit with my daughter?

Or why am I all of a sudden feeling like I'm falling apart and having a meltdown?

And so it's actually kind of pausing along the way before we boil over, right?

Because of this expenditure or need to show up for everybody else and say, what do I need in this situation?

And that obviously is true for any negotiation.

You're walking into the ones that you're kind of hyper aware of and the ones that you're not, because you can't steer yourself towards a destination if you don't know what that destination is.

So that's number one.

And like you said, we're deeply intuitive.

So when we actually give ourselves the space to think about what our needs are, we often know when we're willing to listen.

In terms of the next thing I would say it's do the work, do the research, do the homework that you need to understand what your leverage is, what your options are in this situation, what your fallback is, right?

We call it a batna.

It's like the best alternative to the negotiation happening.

Think about this through the lens of my kids being my best negotiation partners.

This is not just within the context of professional negotiation, right?

This is like you could be talking to your kids.

I had this situation this morning with my daughter.

She didn't want to practice her instrument.

She plays the violin.

She's supposed to practice five days a week, and she didn't want to practice.

So I could just say, whatever, I don't want to fight with you, Sienna, fine, you don't need to practice.

Or I could say, you have to practice, and if you don't practice, you're gonna lose privilege.

I don't think either of those are great models, right?

Because one, I'm either putting on her something that she's gonna end up resenting, or the other, I'm kind of just making it easy for her and saying, okay, you don't actually have to hold yourself accountable to this, and you don't really need to grow your skills around this and all this money that we're investing in this.

So there's a situation, right, that is a negotiation right there in this instance, I thought about, what are my options here?

What is the best alternative to this negotiation?

And I said, you know what?

I'm going to put this on her.

And I said, sienna, you have taken this on yourself.

You have chosen to play this instrument and invested all this time, and you know that you're Supposed to practice a certain number of times a week.

You really don't want to practice right now.

I tried to understand that, like, why don't you want to practice?

And we kind of explored that.

She felt validated.

She felt understood in that situation that I wasn't just saying, oh, you have to do this once.

She felt validated by me for, you know, she's off from school, she wants this to be a week of vacation.

She doesn't want to have to do this thing.

Once I was able to validate that for her, then I said, I really think it's important for you to practice.

What would a good compromise be?

And at first she said, well, I'm just not gonna practice today, but then next week I'll practice without any complaints.

And I said, well, that's an interesting solution, but that's not really compromise, right?

Because what does mommy want here and what do you want?

So that she thought about that and she's like, yeah, okay, well, what if I.

What if I practice for shorter time?

I said, okay, you know, I think I could get behind that.

And so that's what she did.

I said, see, Sienna, I'm really glad we were able to find a compromise.

And she goes, mommy, that's why you do what you do in negotiation.

It was such a cute moment because I'm giving her the tools at a young age to think about how to approach these situations in life.

It was a proud mommy moment for me because we were able to get to a endpoint where she felt good about it and I felt good about it.

A win win, essentially.

Right, but that takes the work, right?

It takes actual thoughtfulness instead of the knee jerk reaction, which I think is so often the mode we're in, whether that's professionally in these conversations or personally with our families.

So this is something that holds people back all the time.

It's the fear of rejection, which is normal.

We're built to protect ourselves from that rejection.

I face rejection all the time.

And part of that is exposing yourself to it because it becomes a lot less scary.

And part that is seeing it through the lens of, just because somebody says no doesn't mean it's a dead end.

Right.

So what can we learn from this?

No.

Oftentimes it's actually very helpful.

Rather than let that silence the conversation full stop.

Okay, I'm going to walk away.

My head, you know, hands in my face, say, well, why?

Can I ask why?

I really appreciate that clarity.

Maybe I can understand what's behind that.

Understanding why gives you the Opportunity to either find another route in or to say, okay, well, this might not have been the best partner anyway or this might not have been the best opportunity and to then go off to the next one.

So either way, it's really empowering.

And I think when you reframe that no for yourself, it becomes a lot less scary.

Oh, I think that's great.

There's so much to take away here.

I love this idea that you used with your daughter because it's usable in literally any context.

Right.

It's simple.

We're facing these situations with others, with our families, with our spouses, with our friends, with our co workers, with our customers.

It's happening all the time.

I do believe that the patriarchal world is one where it's black and white and it's fourth.

So it's you either have to do it or I give you permission not to do it.

Exactly right.

It's one of these two things.

There's this beautiful place that we as a society are in now, albeit very complicated, where we're not just listening to what people tell us to do anymore.

When we go to work, we have choices.

We don't have to work for the toxic boss.

We can go somewhere else.

We have to be mindful of that middle and women, we are good in that spot.

From the fact that we've been sitting in the backseat for hundreds of years.

This is our place and not just roll over to one of these other things.

And yes or no, I'm not.

I am either going to be a doormat or I'm going to give you permission because I'm the one in power.

I find that to be so great.

Do the homework.

Don't expect to come to a circumstance and just not has thought through.

You need to come with some ideas, good solutions that are good for everybody.

One of my questions for you today was about because I know your girls are super important to you.

And I like the idea of seeing more women do what you're talking about.

Knowing what you want, knowing what you need.

Right.

Like I'm going through a thing right now.

I'm trying to figure out what kind of music I like because my house is always filled with my husband's music and my kids music.

Such a great metaphor.

I need to know what I like for music.

And when we do, we're happier and we're not irritated when more Eric Clapton is being played for one more Taylor Swift song.

So how do you as a mom and your vision for the world and the work you're doing, how does this all come together, and why is it so important for you as a mother?

Oh, my God.

I feel like it's the best, most relevant playground.

My kids are the most important things to me in the world, and they're representative of the future for women and for society.

So I think that as a parent.

And again, I talked about my mom earlier, but I'll talk about her again.

She always says the gifts that were given are the ones that are easiest to give.

Right.

And so it's very hard to give a gift that you're not given.

If you want your children to be X, Y, or Z, you have to be able to give them that gift in yourself.

Parents all the time are like, why is my kid cursing in their classroom?

Or why is my child fighting with their hands?

And what are they seeing in the home?

Right.

If you want to empower your child to feel like they can make mistakes and own up to their mistakes and.

And not lie about the fact that they were making mistakes or pretend that they're not or have to walk this perfectionistic line, well, then you better get good at owning up to your mistakes with your children.

That is fundamentally, for me, one of the things that I try and embody as a parent.

It's like, no, it's not always easy in that role.

It's very.

It's very hard to be vulnerable with your children.

As a parent, you feel like you're supposed to have all the answers.

You're supposed to present them with this facade, and they shouldn't see you falling apart and feeling like you're not kind of cool and collected as a parent.

But that's not life, and that's certainly not going to help them go through hardship in their own lives and navigate that.

And so this kind of like, greasing the road or this ability to let them see how hard it is as a working mother or to dehumanize that for them, I think, is really important.

That's the modeling aspect of it that I really embrace both the good, the bad and the ugly.

Right.

I want them to see me in Wind Summit leading the room, and they're so proud of the energy and the impact.

I also want them to see me falling apart and crying because I'm overwhelmed and feeling sick.

And, you know, this pregnancy is hard and.

And know that that's okay and that's part of life because I think it helps them work through their emotions and feel like there's not just the good ones and the bad ones.

They're all normal and they do.

And so it's so sweet, like when I'm having a tough day or when I'm feeling really snappy with them and I realize that after and I apologize.

They're like, it's okay.

When you're feeling really sick, it's hard to be present.

They get it.

I'm so proud of them in that sense.

I think that will help them internalize that for themselves, their children and the people around them and the people they end up leading in their workplaces.

And it just, it breeds kind of society that we want to live in.

One of empathy and collaboration.

The opposite of the scarcity mindset.

Right.

The idea that we can all do better together, I love that.

So that is what the Wynn Summit is all about.

Tell us where and when and how we can all sign up.

Oh, okay.

So we are selling tickets.

Winsummit.com is the website.

We are just a month away.

So very exciting.

We have an amazing lineup of speakers.

The thing about the WIN Summit that makes us unique is it's not just a day of frontal learning.

It's not just a day of saying, look at these amazing speakers on the stage and how exciting their lives are and how amazing their lives are.

It's really skills building day for attendees.

So it's experiential.

It's also a really fun day.

It's the holistic approach to the experience.

So when you come, it's not just about the learning and the networking, which is amazing, but it's also about having a really fun time doing it.

And we've infused these incredible wellness opportunities and moments and activations into the day.

From a really amazing breath work session that we're doing in partnership with the ranch to a movement session around connecting with your primal self to, you know, anything.

Like we've done zeal back massages and we have this incredible beauty bar tethers to a professional headshot booth so you can take care of that.

We just want women to feel really pampered and like their bucket is being filled through this day as their skills are being sharpened.

That is the Wynn summit negotiation, leadership and integrative well being.

May 16th in New York City at the beautiful Apella.

We are thrilled to have them as a venue to be doing it there this year.

It's a really special day.

I really hope that everybody who's listening comes and gets to see how incredible it is.

And I know, Daniela, that you, the filmmaker, the storyteller, create the whole space and the whole experience.

It's meant to land in a woman's whole being, body, mind and soul and be transformative.

You are very intentional about this.

Exactly.

Every detail is very specifically thought through.

Like you said, I don't believe in this kind of compartmental realization of, oh, okay, I'm going to put on my work hat right now and go to work and then come home and try and find some moments of self care, which is probably a long shot, and then put on my mommy.

I think that we are one being.

And when we're able to bring that fusion to an experience, like I said, in terms of the well being and the connections and the authentic connections and the learning, it just is so much more empowering and meaningful.

And that's the kind of day that this is for women.

And, you know, I think about how strapped we are right now in terms of our bandwidth, in terms of our time, in terms of our priorities.

So with that in mind, it's like, how do we create the most value driven, impactful and bucket filling day?

It's a retreat for us and at the same time we're going to walk away with real skills that will help us take our power and our choices and our desires into the world.

Exactly.

And in a time where companies have pulled back on their support overtly and, and sort of, you know, implicitly for women, it's more important than ever to find these spaces for ourselves.

Totally.

And it is a sort of a global, at least, it's certainly a national negotiation right now.

And so we need to know what our needs are.

We need to do our homework.

Yeah, exactly.

It's hard.

You mentioned this idea of agency.

It's very hard to feel like you have agency in this climate right now as a woman.

And I think a lot of people and companies are feeling that sense of uncertainty and wobbliness around what's going to happen.

The economy, these values that we thought were near and dear to the company I worked for, which sort of all overnight are gone.

Poof.

Where does that leave me?

It's just that same sense of instability that is really untethering and really hard for people when they're, you know, in that to feel like they're not the victims of it.

And that's another reason why Summit is so important.

It fits beautifully with the theme of Chart a New Course, which was somewhat kind of, you know, prescient because I landed on this theme way before a lot of what's happened.

But this idea that no, we can find agency and we can do what was hand within our own worlds to feel that sense of empowerment and not rely on somebody else handing it to.

Us, which is what we all need to find our way through this time.

I invite everybody to join me and come to the Wind Summit and be@windsummit.com is where you can check it out.

I also want to make sure everybody knows that Daniella also has a negotiation workbook that has six powerful scripts and tips for your next salary negotiation.

And you can also find that@winSummit.com six- dash scripts and I'll put it in the comment section below so you'll be able to get it there.

And you know.

So Daniela works with people on creative storytelling, producing, brand building and of course worse negotiation training.

Absolutely.

And I know that as a speaker you've gotten a special discount code for Win Summit.

I'm happy to share that with this audience.

Yes, please.

I don't remember what it is offhand.

I'll put it into space below.

But that's a nice discount off of the Summit tickets.

That's right.

And we are promoting it.

We are promoting it right now.

Daniela.

I'm all over my socials with it so I'm very excited to be able to be there and be a part of it and get to get to experience the whole experience the whole day myself.

I'm feeling very blessed.

Thank you Daniela for being with us today.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom with our community.

Thank you for the important and beautiful work you are doing and facilitating this and inviting me on here today.

It's been a pleasure.

Well, it's really great to be with this community of women founders and trailblazers to our listeners.

Thank you for being here.

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