Shownotes
I assert that golf technology can overwhelm players, and that well designed tech should recede into the background so players can focus. We discuss how excessive devices produce paralysis by analysis and impair performance on the course. I emphasize that less is more while playing, and that data and devices are more appropriate during practice and fitting. We explain that proper club fitting typically yields more benefit than simply buying the most expensive gear, because fit reduces mental load and improves consistency. I note that golf ball selection matters most inside of 120 yards, and that urethane tour balls will more often hold the green on good shots. We recommend testing short game feel with a few balls and seeking a professional fitting if the game is important to you.
Links referenced in this episode:
This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis:
OP3 - https://op3.dev/privacy
Transcripts
It's time for Grilling at the Green.
Speaker A:Join Jeff Tracy as he explores the golfing lifestyle and tries to keep it in the short grass.
Speaker A:For the hackers, new sweepers and turf spankers, here's Jeff.
Speaker B:Hey, everybody.
Speaker B:Welcome to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:It's great to be with you this week.
Speaker B:I hope you've been playing a lot of golf.
Speaker B:I have.
Speaker B:This portion is brought to you by by Birdie Ball, the folks that bring you practice devices and putting greens for your backyard or limited space.
Speaker B:Go to birdieball.com well, he's back.
Speaker B:It's been.
Speaker B:It's a little over a year.
Speaker B:I looked it up.
Speaker B:Since Gene Parente from Golf Labs has joined us, I. I've got a whole slew of new questions for him, and I promise not to get too far into the weeds, but Gene is always great on a show.
Speaker B:Welcome back, bud.
Speaker C:Thank you.
Speaker C:It's good to be here.
Speaker B:You've been busy.
Speaker C:Yeah, I'm always keeping busy.
Speaker C:I'm like one of those cattle dogs.
Speaker C:If you don't give me a task and something to do.
Speaker C:I dig holes in the backyard, so it's better if I'm out herding sheep, basically.
Speaker B:Oh, my goodness.
Speaker B:So I actually, I wanted to start on the tech side with you.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:A little bit.
Speaker B:And these are some thought like you.
Speaker B:I get these random thoughts, and sometimes they're very dangerous.
Speaker C:So only if they speak back to you.
Speaker C:I found.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker B:And those guys are limited on Thursdays and Saturdays, the ones that talk back to me.
Speaker B:But, you know, we get bombarded, Gene, and.
Speaker B:And you deal with all these things, but we get bombarded with the new driver, the new wedges, the new balls.
Speaker B:Everything's higher, farther, faster.
Speaker B:So a general question to start with for me.
Speaker B:Is it possible that tech in the golf world is kind of overwhelming the consumer with all the new innovations?
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:100%.
Speaker C:I'll tell you something interesting.
Speaker C:So I built my living on tech.
Speaker C:I built a robot that swings golf clubs.
Speaker C:I mean, it doesn't get more techy than that.
Speaker C:And I love technology and golf, and I love the innovation, and I love the potential.
Speaker C:I'll tell you a story.
Speaker C:I was going through my.
Speaker C:And I've got range finders, I've got launch monitors.
Speaker C:I've got all these devices.
Speaker C:I was going through my closet the other day, and there was a swag bag.
Speaker C:At the bottom of the swag bag was a watch that I totally missed, and it was from Bushnell, and it was a GPS related Watch.
Speaker C:I looked at it, I was like, do I need a subscription for this?
Speaker C:Because it seems like everything you need a subscription for these days.
Speaker C:So I turned the thing on.
Speaker C:No, you don't need a subscription.
Speaker C:It's just a GPS watch.
Speaker C:And I took it to the golf course, and all it tells you is center of green.
Speaker C:It doesn't tell you exact pin location, but it tells you center green.
Speaker C:I shot one of the best rounds of my life.
Speaker C:And the reason was I didn't think about anything.
Speaker C:It was like my caddy.
Speaker C:I was 145, I was uphill, and it told me 155.
Speaker C:And it was just a number and swinging to a number.
Speaker C:So when tech is done well, it is really a freeing experience when it's not done well, when you are bombarded to your point, when you're thinking angle versus your loft versus your face angle, it's paralysis through analysis.
Speaker C:So there's kind of two different roads I believe in.
Speaker C:When you're playing golf, you should have your mind clear.
Speaker C:You should literally just have a distance and be focused on that.
Speaker C:And a lot of the technology, if it's really good technology, should recede into the background.
Speaker C:Now it's a different story when you're practicing, when you're, you know, deciding on.
Speaker C:On equipment and things like.
Speaker C:And you need some knowledge and some data.
Speaker C:But on the golf course, I am a recent convert to less is more, basically.
Speaker B:Well, I would have to tell you, I agree with you, Gene, because I play in.
Speaker B:I live three blocks from the Oregon Golf association home course here.
Speaker B:Lovely course.
Speaker B:I love slipping over there late in the day if I can play nine if I get in 18.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:You know, it's just.
Speaker B:It's just great to be here.
Speaker B:Lovely.
Speaker B:Not an overly difficult course, but it does have its little features that will bite you like most courses when.
Speaker B:Similar story to you.
Speaker B:A couple weeks ago, I got over there and I was.
Speaker B:I was playing well above my skill level.
Speaker B:I don't know why, I don't know how, but I was just kind of using my own brain.
Speaker B:And I have a range finder and in the carts, they've got a little display up there.
Speaker B:It'll say, you know, 136 to the pin, 127 to the middle of the green, whatever.
Speaker B:And I just kind of ignored it.
Speaker B:And I used my brain because I played it so much.
Speaker B:And I would like, yeah, I'm sitting there about 130 today, and I put it in the middle of the green most times.
Speaker B:Not bragging.
Speaker B:I Just did.
Speaker B:And I one putted, I would say more than half the greens.
Speaker B:And, and it was because I shut everything out because I have, like I said, I have the rangefinder.
Speaker B:You have this thing here.
Speaker B:I've got a watch, like you said, a Garmin thing.
Speaker B:When I play with my buddies, one of them's got a thing that he puts in his pocket.
Speaker B:It looks like an old keychain thing, you know, on those zipper chains that comes out and he had that.
Speaker B:And she, and this little voice comes on and says, Gene, you've got 227 to the pin and it's on the left, you know, and all this stuff.
Speaker B:And then all my other guys, they're talking about slope and this and that and I'm like, just get it on the damn green and go from there, you know?
Speaker C:Yep, I, I agree.
Speaker C:And it's kind of like putting and everything that the golf is a very zen game when done correctly.
Speaker C:And that's that you freed your brain and everybody once you reach a certain skill level.
Speaker C:I, I've often said this and this is really fascinating, especially like I was talking about testing of golf balls.
Speaker C:Everybody has hit this.
Speaker C:If you get up to 15 handicap and below, everybody has hit the same 30 yard pitch shot that Scotty Scheffler said.
Speaker C:We just don't hit it with consistency and you know, repeatability.
Speaker C:But we've all hit that one shot that, that we've knocked it, you know, a foot or two from the pin.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker C:So we know we have that ability within us.
Speaker C:It's train our minds to allow us to swing freely and to swing fluidly to do that.
Speaker C:And technology is a balance, as I said.
Speaker C:Now some people are super teched out and that fuels them and that's fine.
Speaker C:But I think for most people it can become a distraction.
Speaker C:It's really interesting.
Speaker C:The best rounds I play as a golfer is when I'm playing with people.
Speaker C:I don't know, I'm by myself pretty much and I'm in my own thoughts and I'm just working on my game when I'm socializing and I've got a four sum of guys that I know and we're laughing and having a good time.
Speaker C:I'm generally not as on my game because I'm not as focused.
Speaker C:I'm not allowing my mind just to kind of recede in the background and let my body do what it wants to.
Speaker C:So it's the same thing with technology.
Speaker C:If you're focusing on technology like you're focusing on your buddies, you are going to more than likely become distracted.
Speaker C:And that's the ultimate obstacle towards your best potential for golf.
Speaker B:You, you were talking about that, that pitch shot that Scotty Scheffler hits and you and I hit on occasion, which is.
Speaker B:This is abstract, but what's your favorite club in the bag?
Speaker B:In, in Gene Parentes bag.
Speaker B:What is your favorite club?
Speaker C:My three hybrid.
Speaker C:And sound.
Speaker C:Yeah, for whatever reason, it's really interesting.
Speaker C:I went to a fitting at TPI up in Oceanside with Titleist and they tried to get me into a five or a seven wood in, in relation to it and I just simply could not hit it.
Speaker C:I.
Speaker C:This, this three hybrid just works for me.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's my 200 yard club.
Speaker C:I can hit it on long par threes.
Speaker C:I can hit it in on, on long par fours.
Speaker C:It's, it's just, it works and it's really fascinating.
Speaker C:There's nothing magical about it.
Speaker C:I think that I just have a supreme degree of confidence in the shaft and I don't get too quick with it.
Speaker C:And it's an amazingly consistent club.
Speaker B:Mine is, I play with cobra clubs and mine is an offset 3, which I can hit it most times just like what you're describing.
Speaker B:But my other, I think my favorite club in the bag and since I say this, we're going to go to break, is my gap wedge for some reason.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:For years and years and years I had this 50 degree Tom Watson.
Speaker B:I don't even know where I had it.
Speaker B:I probably bought it at a garage sale or something and use that for a long, long time.
Speaker B:And then it was getting pretty gnarly and I had a kid on the show and this was eight years ago or something and he was just starting a business here in Portland kind of out of a garage thing, and he was refinishing clubs and I, so I gave him that club to refinish.
Speaker B:Biggest mistake of my life.
Speaker B:Nothing against the kid, but whatever juju, if you will, that club had, when he refinished the head on that club, it was gone.
Speaker B:It's now, it's now relegated to the closet, you might say.
Speaker B:Like that.
Speaker C:That's really fascinating because there's definitely data that shows especially with wedges.
Speaker C:Wedges are like tread on a tire.
Speaker C:They do wear over time.
Speaker C:And so theoretically refinishing should get you that spin back that you were losing over time.
Speaker C:But hey, I get it.
Speaker C:There's, trust me, there's.
Speaker C:There's an alchemy part of golf that, that I used to discount and now I'm Like I, there's just some things that are not explained.
Speaker C:And you know, if I'm being totally honest, I think it's between the years more than likely, but.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker C:But, but that being said, it, it, I've just heard this too many times to dismiss it.
Speaker C:Something was working, something changed.
Speaker C:Something doesn't work anymore.
Speaker B:Yeah, so I got, a couple of years ago I got a, with some new Cobras.
Speaker B:I got, I got a 50 degree gap in there and I love that club.
Speaker B:I'd leave the rest of my clubs in the car and take that one in the house.
Speaker B:Anyway, Gene and I have to take a break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back in just a minute on grilling at the green.
Speaker B:I guess that's what we're doing.
Speaker B:Stay with us.
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Speaker D: ales of new Kias from January: Speaker E:Hey everybody, JT here.
Speaker E:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try birdie ball.
Speaker E:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual birdie balls, their packages, their putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of those and they work great.
Speaker E:Birdieball.com.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green it's fun show.
Speaker B:We've got Gene Parente with us from Golf Labs.
Speaker B:And, and if, if you don't know Gene's story, I'll give it to you in about 13 seconds here.
Speaker B:Back in the 90s, he built a robot and kind of took everything by storm.
Speaker B:And so when you are looking at clubs or reading reviews on golf balls or any of that kind of stuff, that stuff originated with this man right here, Gene, okay?
Speaker B:And he builds these robots.
Speaker B:Now some of the private companies have them.
Speaker B:He can tell you more about that if he wants to.
Speaker B:But he really set the golf world on its ear as far as data and information and it's been a, a huge influence on the golf industry.
Speaker B:That is that a good 15 second synopsis?
Speaker C:You were way too kind.
Speaker C:You should be my publicist.
Speaker B:Okay, well, it's true.
Speaker B:It's true.
Speaker B:So Gene, when you're, when you're testing stuff and you're looking at this, another kind of general question I wanted to ask you today.
Speaker B:Is it really worth the extra money in clubs and in balls and stuff to gain that other 10 yards and I'm talking about for 15 handicappers and above which I kind of fall right on that line these days, but I don't care.
Speaker B:But is it worth the, Is it worth 700 bucks to buy a Wazer Frammer driver to get that?
Speaker B:Because if you, if you look.
Speaker B:And again, we were talking about stuff between the ears, right?
Speaker B:If you look at where you play, how you play, maybe you're in a men's club, a ladies club, whatever.
Speaker B:Sometimes I wonder if we're just not all silly to spend that money sometimes.
Speaker C:Well, it's purely subjective.
Speaker C:That's, that's number one.
Speaker C:And, and, and when you say worth, is a $150 bottle of wine worth more than a 50 or a $25 or even a $5 bottle of wine?
Speaker C:So there's a matter of perception.
Speaker C:Number one, there's a matter of quality.
Speaker C:Usually the most expensive stuff will give you the quality, but kind of back to your point, the 10 yards.
Speaker C:Here's what I will say about.
Speaker C:We'll call it premier or elite equipment.
Speaker C:When, if you get fit for the right equipment that fits your game, when you hit a bad shot, it's on you.
Speaker C:It's not the equipment.
Speaker C:And all of us golfers, you were just talking about your gap wedge.
Speaker C:You hit a shot and you don't have faith in the equipment, and you're like, that didn't feel right.
Speaker C:I, I put a good swing on that and something wasn't right.
Speaker C:So there's no piece of equipment in the world that's going to cut 10 strokes off your handicap.
Speaker C:There's no equipment that's probably going to cut more than two strokes if you're horribly misfit or something like that.
Speaker C:But if you are fit to the best of your abilities, when you go play golf, it's kind of like we talked about, the technology.
Speaker C:It's one less thing to think about.
Speaker C:And so Is that worth $700?
Speaker C: Is that worth $: Speaker C:That's totally subjective up to the user.
Speaker C:If, if golf is your life, which, you know, let's face it, someone listening to this broadcast, probably it's big part.
Speaker C:Yeah, I mean, you know, they're, they're what I affectionately call the sickos, right?
Speaker C:You know, are tuning in to get all of this content.
Speaker C:It probably is worth it.
Speaker C:If it's someone who plays once a year and goes out with the boss for the, you know, annual tournament.
Speaker C:No, it's, it's not worth it.
Speaker C:So it's just a matter of.
Speaker C:And let's Face it, most golf equipment is bought by men.
Speaker C:I'm very excited to see the growth of women in the game, and that's been a post Covid phenomenon, and I'm very excited to see that.
Speaker C:But still, for the, for the top equipment and custom fitting, it's.
Speaker C:The majority of it is men.
Speaker C:And men of a certain age usually don't spend money on much except for things like golf equipment, cars, you know, cigars and wine.
Speaker C:And so it has a tendency of.
Speaker C:Golf has a tendency of kind of going from a sport to a hobby.
Speaker C:And it's.
Speaker C:It's collecting of golf equipment kind of transcends just the pure.
Speaker C:The pure performance aspects of golf equipment.
Speaker C:And it's like, hey, I just picked up that new Cameron Putter.
Speaker C:Oh, man, you got.
Speaker C:I just love the looks of this.
Speaker C:Now.
Speaker C:Did they need the Cameron Putter?
Speaker C:No, they don't need the Cameron Putter, but they wanted the Cameron Putter and now they have that as part of their hobby.
Speaker C:So sorry for the long winded explanation.
Speaker B:No, no, it's perfect.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker C:It's less than a kind of simple connection.
Speaker C:It's more.
Speaker C:What are your driving forces for this game and what is the importance of the game kind of in your overall life experience?
Speaker B:Sure.
Speaker B:No, I used to.
Speaker B:When we had the ranch and stuff, I did a lot of hunting and fishing, more hunting than fishing.
Speaker B:My brother was the fisherman.
Speaker B:He must.
Speaker B:That guy must have 300 fishing poles, I kid you not.
Speaker B:You know, and different shotguns for bird hunting and stuff.
Speaker B:A room full of them.
Speaker B:And if I looked at something and they said, well, that shotgun is eighteen hundred dollars, I'd go, okay, okay.
Speaker B:You know,.
Speaker C:And does it shoot any better or, you know, no, it's the.
Speaker B:Guy pulling the trigger with his hand on the stock and the aim.
Speaker B:You know, that's.
Speaker C:But it's Italian craftsmanship.
Speaker C:It's been, you know, it's like forged irons.
Speaker C:It's just.
Speaker C:There's a story.
Speaker C:As humans, we want to be told stories.
Speaker C:That's what I found.
Speaker C:And so kind of back to the tech thing.
Speaker C:If you are told a story and you believe that's marketing, basically.
Speaker C:But if you're told a story and you believe that story and that story enriches your life, then price has a tendency of not becoming irrelevant.
Speaker C:But it's very.
Speaker C:It's minimized because the story becomes important to your narrative and how you approach the sport, whatever hunting, whatever it is.
Speaker C:And so that's the.
Speaker C:That's the hook of golf equipment.
Speaker C:Golf equipment does matter.
Speaker C:And it does matter because golf is about the little things.
Speaker C:But how much it matters, that's ultimately a function of the importance that you put on it.
Speaker B:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:We're going to take another break.
Speaker B:We're going to be back with Gene Parente from Golf Labs and tell more stories.
Speaker B:I've got more tech questions, so you tech geeks out there.
Speaker B:Hang on.
Speaker B:We'll be back in about three minutes.
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Speaker D: ales of new Kias from January: Speaker E:Hey, everybody, it's JT.
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Speaker B:More you won't regret.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:I'm jt.
Speaker B:We want to thank the folks Snell Golf Balls.
Speaker B:Dean Snell and Jason Alameda back there support all my tournaments with the North Valley Challenge that I've put together.
Speaker B:And they've been really super with that and supporting this show and I appreciate that very much.
Speaker B:So you can go to snellgolf.com and also Carsley Golf, home of the Rhymer 2.0 carsleygolf.com if you're getting somebody in your family or friends kind of have a little problem with positioning their, their feet and the alignment.
Speaker B:The rhymer can.
Speaker B:The Rimmer, I should say, excuse me, can help them out.
Speaker B:Hopefully.
Speaker B:We've got Gene Parente here, like I said.
Speaker B:Okay, another one of my really cerebral questions for you, Tana Golf Ball.
Speaker B:And I was just reading a bunch of golf ball reviews today and I was on my Golf Spy, actually, and I was reading that and it made me think, can a golf ball really make that much difference to a mid or high handicapper?
Speaker B:I mean, you've tested thousands of golf balls.
Speaker C:So within a category.
Speaker C:Not really within a category.
Speaker C:It's pretty minimal.
Speaker C:Here's the interesting thing, and once again, it's the importance of the game to your life.
Speaker C:And that's the reason I bring it up, is this.
Speaker C:There's kind of a misconception out there, especially in bugs mid and high handicappers.
Speaker C:I'm not good enough to play a urethane golf ball.
Speaker C:And like a Pro V1 is a urethane golf ball.
Speaker C:So let's just use Pro V1 as an example.
Speaker C:I'm not good enough to play Pro B1.
Speaker C:Well, that's not true.
Speaker C:The golf ball doesn't activate to a 5 handicap versus a 25 handicap.
Speaker C:It actually performs just as well with the 25 handicap as it does with a 5 handicap.
Speaker C:What it doesn't what the ball does.
Speaker C:And this is where you have to decide value.
Speaker C:When even a 25 handicap hits a good shot into a green, it will hold the green, whereas as a two piece golf ball more than likely will not and it will release.
Speaker C:So you will be penalized on that rare really good shot that you hit because you're hitting a lesser price golf ball.
Speaker C:So now is it worth it to spend $48 if you're a 25 handicap and you're just struggling and starting out?
Speaker C:Probably not.
Speaker C:But as you move up or if you find one in the bushes, go ahead and play with it and try it around the greens and you'll be surprised when you do hit that chip shot.
Speaker C:You can aim at the pin and it will stop.
Speaker C:And that's the main difference.
Speaker C:Most of the technology in tour grade golf balls is from 120 yards and in.
Speaker C:And that's just that.
Speaker C:It simply holds greens.
Speaker C:It has a better trajectory, a better descent angle and what the descent angle means, how steep it comes in, it comes in steeper.
Speaker C:So you can aim at a target and it drops at that target.
Speaker C:And so that's the, that's the real benefit of a golf ball.
Speaker C:When you get in say a Callaway Chrome Tour versus a Pro V1 versus a TP5, that comes down to nuance and a lot of player preference in that regard.
Speaker C:I would say you have to get into the single digits to start seeing those small differences.
Speaker C:But a mid or a high handicap player can benefit from a urethane golf ball.
Speaker C:Do they need that at that stage of the game?
Speaker C:It just is a matter of how important the game is to you.
Speaker B:So for folks listening to this show that are newbies or even old bees.
Speaker B:Word I made up.
Speaker B:Gene, you hear a lot about the, the dimple technology.
Speaker B:Some of the dimples are octagon, pentagon, some of them are round, some of them are deep, some of them are flatter like that.
Speaker B:And not to get too far off into the Weeds as far as.
Speaker B:Because every golf ball company that comes out with a new dimple design, if you will, which is not frequent, but they say it's, again, it'll.
Speaker B:It'll check up the best.
Speaker B:It'll spin the best.
Speaker B:Whatever they're telling you it designs to do.
Speaker B:And all the work that you've done at Golf Labs.
Speaker B:What's your view of the various dimple designs?
Speaker C:Well, they do make a difference, without a doubt.
Speaker C:And they affect the trajectory, they affect the peak height, they affect the descent angle.
Speaker C:You got to remember, the golf ball is the only piece of equipment that is used on every shot.
Speaker C:And so it has to have characteristics that maximize distance on a drive, maximize spin on a short shot, and maximize trajectory on a mid iron, 5, 6, 7.
Speaker C:That's a really complicated thing.
Speaker C:Most people that are getting in the game or don't know much about the game think, well, it's white and it's got holes in it.
Speaker C:You know, I mean, it's like, what.
Speaker C:What is.
Speaker C:What are you talking about?
Speaker C:Why does that cost so much money?
Speaker C:Well, there's multi layers to it, and the cores activate based on different striking patterns, and as they activate, they spin differently.
Speaker C:It is a really complicated piece of the equipment that you use to play golf, and it really requires a development and design package.
Speaker C:You could design a dimple pattern, say, if you just used it for a driver, and it would maximize distance on a driver and be awful on a wedge.
Speaker C:So everything is pulling levers, and it's making sure that those dimples are designed to give the ultimate, ultimate distance, but yet the ultimate spin.
Speaker C:And that is a hard needle to thread.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker C:And the best companies do it very well.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And, you know, I. I tend to want to play a little softer ball just because of the conditions and stuff we have up here a lot.
Speaker B:So, you know, I.
Speaker B:That's just me.
Speaker C:And.
Speaker B:But you find your own.
Speaker B:And like you said, if you want to try out golf balls, first of all, I would recommend, and I'm not in a position to recommend much of anything to people, but don't judge your golf ball by the range.
Speaker B:Rocks that you get at the driving range.
Speaker B:Okay, that.
Speaker C:Not at all.
Speaker C:No, no, no.
Speaker C:Don't.
Speaker C:Don't judge your distances.
Speaker C:The only thing you should use, and trust me, I have tested.
Speaker C:I have tested range balls, and there's so many.
Speaker C:There's minimum flight, there's medium flight, there's all these different things, not to mention the wear patterns.
Speaker C:So 100% agree with you there.
Speaker C:Here's the hack.
Speaker C:Here's the hack.
Speaker C:Okay, this is what tour players do.
Speaker C:And you can do it too.
Speaker C:Tour players judge golf balls by 40 yards and in.
Speaker C:That's where they judge.
Speaker C:That's where they make their money.
Speaker C:And they go out and they practice.
Speaker C:You know what you can do as the average golfer when you're in it, when you're in a golf shop, buy a sleeve of something, It'll cost you $10 to $12.
Speaker C:And go out to the pitching range with those three golf balls and hit them into the 40 yards.
Speaker C:Go collect them again, hit them again, Try some different shots, try your 52, try your 56, try your 60 and see how the ball checks.
Speaker C:And if you have with that, then go out and play around with that.
Speaker C:But that is how golf pros and tour players test their golf balls.
Speaker C:And amateurs can do the exact same thing.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker B:Plus, if you really want to get free golf balls, get a job on a grounds crew at your local golf course.
Speaker B:And then when they're having you mow the rough or something, keep an eye out in the bushes.
Speaker B:I've got.
Speaker C:Oh, or, or just walk along the edges of high end golf courses with a wedge.
Speaker C:You can kick some balls.
Speaker C:Without a doubt.
Speaker B:I got a friend of mine, just moved here a couple years ago and I got him a job over here at the golf course.
Speaker B:He's been on that job since March of this year.
Speaker B:He's got a five gallon bucket full.
Speaker B:He's got another five gallon bucket half full, and he's got two coffee cans full of.
Speaker B:And why the hell he's collecting these, I don't know.
Speaker B:But he's got teaspoon because he works on the tee boxes every day too, cleaning them up.
Speaker B:But I said, well, we're gonna have to sit down and we'll go through those balls, the ones to keep, the ones to Chuck and all that.
Speaker B:But he does, he, he loves it.
Speaker B:He just thinks it's great.
Speaker B:Are there times, let's see if I got time to ask this question.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:During your testing, have you, on a golf ball or a club?
Speaker B:Doesn't matter.
Speaker B:Has there ever been a time that you were surprised?
Speaker B:Good way Gene, that you got a something to test and you, you just looked at it and you know, you've seen so many.
Speaker B:You go, I'm not sure about this one.
Speaker B:And you, you put it in the robot and it does its thing and you go, wow, that's pretty good.
Speaker C:Absolutely.
Speaker C:I've been proven wrong more times than I've been proven right.
Speaker C:And it's it's what I've learned is don't judge anything until you test it.
Speaker C:And that's the beauty of testing.
Speaker C:Most of the time, especially in my earlier career, I would get these inventors who would come out and go, oh, this thing's 35 yards longer than anything else.
Speaker C:And I'd put it on the robot and it would go exactly the same distance.
Speaker C:And immediately it was, your robot's broken, it doesn't work.
Speaker C:So I used to get that a lot.
Speaker C:And I learned physics is physics.
Speaker C:If you deliver a clubhead, whether you're a robot or a human, at X speed, it, the ball has to leave and it has to do something.
Speaker C:And it's the same physics.
Speaker C:And so I developed confidence over the years that it was a biomechanical model that we could do that.
Speaker C:But I have seen, I have seen products over the years that I didn't think were going to perform very well and was just shocked when I looked at the data.
Speaker C:And it just, it always, it keeps me young.
Speaker C:One of the struggles that I have, and I think we all have as we age, as we think we've seen and done everything, and especially when you get, quote, unquote, become quote, unquote, an expert in the industry.
Speaker C:And what I've learned is to stay open minded.
Speaker C:And always, I'm just, I'm just about to start all 20, 27 products testing in about a month or so.
Speaker C:And every year I'm blown away, even though in the grand scheme of things it might be three to four yards.
Speaker C:But these engineers have spent sometimes two or three years on this technology, just on trying to get every last tenth of a mile per hour ball speed out of this phase.
Speaker C:And it's the amount of time that they have committed to this is always very, very impressive to me.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker B:We're going to take a break and Gene and I'll come back and wrap up the show in just a couple minutes.
Speaker B:You're listening to Grilling at the Green on terrestrial radio, all the podcast platforms and golf newsnet on iHeart.
Speaker B:And we're proud of all of them.
Speaker E:We'll be right back.
Speaker E:Hey, everybody, J.T.
Speaker D:Here.
Speaker E:If you need something to practice with in the inclement weather, try Birdie ball.
Speaker E:Go to birdieball.com check out the actual birdie balls, their packages, they're putting greens, which I happen to have a couple of those, and they work great.
Speaker E:Birdieball.com Bob.
Speaker B:Welcome back to Grilling at the Green.
Speaker B:We've got Gene Parente with us today from Golf Labs.
Speaker B:We want to thank all the sponsors for our show.
Speaker B:As always, we've had a very good summer with doing the live broadcast from the LPGA tournament up here.
Speaker B:Thank you all for watching that.
Speaker B:And we set some new numbers there.
Speaker B:And don't forget, you can follow us on, on, on Facebook and you can follow me on Facebook or I'll fringe you or however you want to do it.
Speaker B:I think I've got four Facebook pages.
Speaker B:You can do that on LinkedIn.
Speaker B:I've kind of gotten away from Twitter, though.
Speaker B:It's wonky as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker B:There's too much technology there for me and not all that's good.
Speaker B:Do that and then you can follow us, you know, on YouTube and all that.
Speaker B:So, so that's always good.
Speaker B:So we've got, like I said, Gene Parente with us today.
Speaker B:Do companies this, this is a trick question, Gene.
Speaker B:Do companies use the results of your testing to verify or justify.
Speaker C:Can we take this off?
Speaker C:So both.
Speaker C:I've often said for the verification process, usually the smaller companies will come to me and that's part of the research and development.
Speaker C:And I've often said my bad news delivery, bad news is just as important as delivering good news.
Speaker C:If something doesn't work, there's the opportunity to change it.
Speaker C:The worst experiences I have and I and these occur unfortunately more often than not for smaller companies is they will already have a product that they've developed and they are now marketing it and then they come to me for test results.
Speaker C:And in those cases when it doesn't work, that's a really awkward and uncomfortable conversation because they've already spent the time and money and, and have it in the marketplace.
Speaker C:Those results usually don't see the light of day and it causes a lot of sleepless nights.
Speaker C:As far as the justification, a lot of times that's bigger companies will come to me, they have tested the products already and they will give me the test matrix and say test under these conditions.
Speaker C:I will test under those conditions.
Speaker C:And one of the things that I do for my company is we never say product A is the best product we've ever tested and it's hands down better than product B.
Speaker C: degree launch,: Speaker C:And it's just data.
Speaker C:The reason is, Jeff, your swing is different than mine, is different than everyone's.
Speaker C:And in.
Speaker C:And because of that, what I might experience in the difference between product A and product B, you might Flip.
Speaker C:Because we have totally different launch conditions and one aids the one player profile versus the other.
Speaker C:But at the same time, and I wrestle with this all the time from a testing perspective, I have to start somewhere.
Speaker C:And so what I apply is the bell curve, you know, approach.
Speaker C:And basically you've got a mid, mid or a medium point in the bell curve and it's usually about 95 miles an hour.
Speaker C: launch and it's usually about: Speaker C:That's kind of the player hits the ball a little low, spins it a little too much and is swinging at 95 miles an hour.
Speaker C:That's what I usually set up for, for the majority of my testing.
Speaker C:And then if I'm asked, the beauty of the robot is I can set up for anything else, but we ultimately just document.
Speaker C:That's what we do.
Speaker C:And it's up to the manufacturer to take those results and justify those kind of to, to your point.
Speaker B:Well, where you, what you described there with 95 and 25 and those is, that's kind of the, the, the average golfer, isn't it?
Speaker C:That's the meat of the market, without a doubt.
Speaker C:But here's, here's the thing and this is the, this is the challenge of golf, right?
Speaker C:Let's say you're on one side of that average and I'm on the other.
Speaker C:It's like me giving you my suit and saying, hey, go ahead and put this on and you're going to look great.
Speaker C:And you go, wait a minute, the arms don't fit.
Speaker C:You know, nothing fits.
Speaker C:Golf is a personalized game.
Speaker C:Even if you're slightly off of that mean average, you could need a little bit less loft, a little bit more loft, a little bit less spin, a little bit more.
Speaker C:So it really, the one thing that I will say once again, and it's all just how serious you are about the game and how seriously you take it.
Speaker C:But if you do take the game seriously and your money.
Speaker C:So we, we have a podcast at Golf Digest called Club Lab.
Speaker C:And basically what we do is all we talk about is equipment.
Speaker C:And you want to talk about sickos.
Speaker C:And they're my people and I love them, but you know, they listen every week, you know, what are the latest in equipment trends?
Speaker C:And we go through data and everything like that.
Speaker C:But I really hammer home if you take it seriously.
Speaker C:Get fit, get fit, get fit for your equipment because you are personal in your swing and that personality can be reflected in golf equipment and optimized for that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I, I played Golf a long time before I actually got to fit.
Speaker B:And I'm not talking about getting rid of my stomach, I'm talking about getting fit for clubs, you know, and made a difference, you know, I mean, it didn't take me from a 30 to a 2, but it made a big difference.
Speaker B:And also, you know, when you're out there and just to digress a little bit, and then we'll wrap this up when you are fit for your clubs and you get the clubs that are fit for you and, and I will tell you, there may be more than one brand that can fit into that, that category for you.
Speaker B:You know, there's, there's all kinds of, what do I want to say?
Speaker B:Differential pieces that, that can do this, but once you do that, you kind of take that club out of the bag, so to speak.
Speaker B:Gene, in my view, that prior to that, you could never quite get it right.
Speaker B:You know what I'm saying?
Speaker C:Yep, yep.
Speaker C:Hundred percent.
Speaker C:It's that club you struggle with and you go.
Speaker C:Or it's, it's little things like I hit my 7 iron 140 yards, but I hit my 8 iron 120 yards.
Speaker C:And I, and I really well, it's just your clubs are, are they have the incorrect lofts, you don't have the proper gapping.
Speaker C:And so to you it's an inconvenience.
Speaker C:But what it means is you've got to either lay off your 7 iron or step on your 8 iron to hit that number.
Speaker C:And that's just once again, one more check, mental check that that causes a little bit more error, that causes the ball to go offline or you to have a bad swing, etc, whereas when you're properly gapped, and that's what a lot of iron fitting is to your wed and to your hybrids and your fairways, then it's a distance, you know, your club and, and you swing and hit that club.
Speaker B:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Gene Parente from Golf Labs.
Speaker B:Gene's gonna stick around for after hours more abuse, but and tell everybody where they can find you and find information about what you do.
Speaker C:So the website is golflabs.com and if anybody is interested in equipment, we have a weekly podcast that drops on Wednesday for Golf Digest, and that's called Club Lab Lab on any of the podcast platforms.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker B:Well, Gene, thank you folks.
Speaker B:We'll be back next week.
Speaker B:I can almost guarantee it.
Speaker B:Unless there's some terrible thing out of, you know, biblical proportion that keeps us all from this.
Speaker B:We'll be back.
Speaker B:Until then, go out, play some golf.
Speaker B:Have some fun.
Speaker B:And most of all, be kind.
Speaker B:Take care, everybody.
Speaker A:Grilling at the Green is produced by JTSD Productions, llc in association with Salem Media Group.
Speaker A:All rights reserve.
