For Ainka Jackson—founding Executive Director of the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth, and Reconciliation—restorative justice is an actionable way of life that attends to the many forms of violence in her community.

The Selma Center's mission honors the city's legacy as the birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement and writes a next chapter of racial healing, bridging divides, and building the beloved community.

In this episode, Ainka explains the six principles of nonviolence, and illuminates them through stories of healing and repair within her own community. She invites each of us to answer the call to be ministers of reconciliation, embodying nonviolence as a way of doing so.

Caitlin Morneau

Welcome to Encounters with Dignity, a podcast on restorative justice from Catholic Mobilizing Network. Here, we bear witness to the stories, learnings, and actionable wisdom of people putting restorative justice into practice.

I’m Caitlin Morneau, CMN’s Director of Restorative Justice, and your host.

This season we’re taking a close look at the U.S. criminal legal system through the eyes of those most impacted by it.

Together, we’ll unpack the connections between Catholic values and responses to crime that allow all those involved to understand the impact of the harm --- and do what is needed to make things right.

May it be so.

Today, I’m so pleased to introduce you to Ainka Jackson, who is the founding executive director of the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth, and Reconciliation in Alabama.

In our conversation, Ainka explains how their mission continues the legacy of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and his counterparts in bridging divides and building the beloved community.

For Ainka, restorative justice is an actionable way of life that attends to the many forms of violence in her community. Her heartfelt stories and keen analysis weave learnings from Selma’s past, with current realities, all in service of a better future.

I first met Ainka on a trip convened by CMN with National Catholic Ministry leaders from across the country to visit landmarks of racial violence and resilience in Selma and Montgomery. As she spoke to the group, I knew this was wisdom we wanted to share here on Encounters with Dignity, too.

Ainka is a former public defender, teacher and caseworker who now organizes the community to transform and heal racial and economic inequities. She is a certified trainer of Kingian Nonviolence Conflict Reconciliation and co-creator of the training “Beyond Divide and Conquer: Unite and Build Racial Equity”.

Ainka, thank you so much for joining us on Encounters with Dignity.

Ainka Jackson

I'm excited to be here.

Caitlin Morneau

Wonderful. Well, let's dive right in. You were born in Montgomery, Alabama and raised in Selma. I understand that you're a former public defender. Tell us about your journey. How did you come to lead the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth, and Reconciliation?

Ainka Jackson

So, I was a public defender, organizing around mass incarceration and the school to prison pipeline. And I read “The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Color Blindness.” And I was like, I'm going to be doing this forever until we get to the root causes like the cancer that is racism, economic inequality.

And so it really takes both because I can't wait for people to change their heart and mind because I'm suffering now. But I also… we have to think long-term and work on the hearts and minds as well.

Caitlin Morneau

Yeah, Thank you so much for sharing your journey of call and purpose. Tell us about the founding of the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth and Reconciliation. How did it come to be?

Ainka Jackson

And so our founders came together and said that we needed to address violence in its many forms, whether it be racial violence, physical violence, or economic violence. Often we don't think of poverty as a form of violence, but we believe that anything that dehumanizes others is violent. Dr. Bernard Lafayette, who is a leader in the national sit-ins, the Freedom Rides, the Selma movement, and who Dr. King appointed to lead up the Poor People's Campaign, in our very first board meeting, he said that there was unfinished business of the Civil Rights Movement. And so our charge is Selma 2.0, finishing the unfinished business of bridging divides and building the beloved community.

Dr. King's final words to Dr. Lafayette were on the day of Dr. King's assassination. That morning, he told Dr. Lafayette that the final battleground was to internationalize and institutionalize nonviolence. And our center is literally a burst, an outgrowth of that final conversation with Dr. King.

And so we help to institutionalize and internationalize nonviolence in some beautiful ways, whether that's in the courts, in schools, in communities, in homes. Because despite what people think, key in nonviolence conflict reconciliation is not about something that you just do on a bridge. Nonviolence is a way of life for courageous people. And so that's whether my children are getting on my nerves, or my boss is overlooking me again, or there's a big systemic issue like poverty and racism.

Caitlin Morneau

Yeah. We're definitely going to kind of continue to go down several different avenues that you're already speaking to. Before that, I would be really curious to hear you describe, how do the principles of and practices of nonviolence, what do they help to do that the legal system cannot?

Ainka Jackson

How our legal system, our criminal legal system is set up, it very much so misses the mark. It is set up so one will win and one will lose, right? And nonviolence is very opposite from that. The fourth step of nonviolence is negotiation. And we specifically are looking for a win-win. And our criminal legal system and even our civil legal system isn't set up in that way. We don't even look for ways for healing, even for victims, for survivors. And so nonviolence and restorative justice are very unique in that we do seek for healing and a win-win for all.

Caitlin Morneau

Amen. You are the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth, and Reconciliation. How do you all kind of define or articulate those three facets of nonviolence, truth, and reconciliation on their own and also in relationship with one another?

Ainka Jackson

Absolutely. They are so interconnected. Dr. King said something of the nature that unarmed truth and love will have the final say. So often our truth is armed. Right? It's meant to harm. It's not meant to heal. It's not meant even for necessarily justice. Definitely not reconciliation. But if reconciliation is your goal, how you share the truth is so important.

The final step of nonviolence is reconciliation. And so if that's your goal, it drives everything else, right? And we define reconciliation as the mandatory closing step where you jointly celebrate and implement change, which means that I’m not going to jointly celebrate with you if it wasn't beneficial to me.

But I'm also not gonna jointly celebrate and implement with you if I haven't forgiven. And so I do believe that there is forgiveness that is required in reconciliation, but forgiveness is not exoneration. There's still accountability with reconciliation.

Truth is distinctly different than reconciliation. It is a part of the process, but it is not the end of the process. In reconciliation, it requires justice. And I know in many spaces that reconciliation has gotten a bad name, but it's important for us as people of faith that we hold on to Biblically what it says about reconciliation. And also in the world of nonviolence, what it means is that there has to be justice. And so we're called to be ministers of reconciliation.

Caitlin Morneau

Yes, second Corinthians chapter 5, it is one of my favorites too. You’ve learned and taught a great deal about what getting to this place of reconciliation looks like in really practical ways. And I know that you list the six steps of nonviolence. These are:

Information Gathering

Education

Personal Commitment

Negotiation

Direct Action

Reconciliation

And we’re not able to cover each one of these in detail, there are trainings for that of course, but beneath these steps are principles of nonviolence that you abide in. Would you walk us through those?

Ainka Jackson

You have to start with the principles. We say the principles are the wheel and the steps are the skill. So the steps are how you do the principles. Nonviolence is a way of life for courageous people. It’s not just something you do at a demonstration. Little do most people know that direct action is the one step that's totally unnecessary in nonviolence, right? You can actually have a campaign that you never do direct action. But it is necessary if you're trying to be nonviolent, that is a way of life.

That means that if on my job, when there's traffic, when there's a systemic issue, when there's an institutional issue, at home, that I'm trying to live a nonviolent life. It doesn't mean that there's an absence of fear. It means even in the presence of fear, I do what I'm called to do, that I'm courageous and brave. So that's what the first principle is all about, that it's a way of life and that it's for courageous people. It's hard.

Principle two is the beloved community, is the framework for the future. And our definition of this one is so important because people use beloved community all the time. And so we say that it's a nonviolent concept and an overall effort to achieve a reconciled world where relationships are raised to a height where justice prevails and people can attain their full human potential.

You can't get to justice without raising relationships to a level of height where relationships are prioritized. And so often in justice organizations, we will fight for justice externally, but do harm internally. You can't build the beloved community without being the beloved community.

And as we talk about in our racial equity training called “Beyond Divide and Conquer: Unite and Build,” we talk about racism and violence being systemic, meaning that it's personal, cultural, and institutional. So often we miss the personal. We miss the work that we need to do. You have to do the personal work. And then you have to do the hard work of being together. There's an African proverb that says, if you want to go fast, go alone. But if you want to go far, go together. And the reality is, is going far together is harder. It is. It takes longer, right? But it produces more.

I personally believe if God is a communal God, Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit, and we remain in God's image, clearly we are supposed to be in community. We just can't do it by ourselves.

I'll just quickly give an example of a white evangelical Trump supporter, which I am none of those, right? Who very frequently – religiously – came to our “Chat and Chews” at a private coffee shop where we could talk about tough issues. And if I would have thrown her away, disposed of her, which is what we do in white supremacy culture, right? And I don't mean that just white people. I mean, I struggle with white supremacy culture because I have lots of privilege, right?

If I would have thrown her away, neither of us would have grown in the ways we grew together, right? I wouldn't have been able to share with her. Her concern was always that we need fathers in the home. And I couldn't have shared with her the systemic barriers to fathers being in the home. So we can't get to the justice part of all the things that come with fathers not being in the home if we don't have a relationship to even talk about it, right?

Caitlin Morneau

Beautiful. Okay so we’ve heard so far:

Nonviolence is a way of life for courageous people

The beloved community is the framework for the future

Could you bring us through the remaining four? And, for our listeners, those are:

Attack the forces of evil not the persons doing evil

Accept suffering without retaliation for the sake of the cause to achieve the goal

Avoid internal violence of the spirit as well as external physical violence

The universe is on the side of justice

Ainka Jackson

Absolutely. Attack forces evil, not persons doing evil. Another way of seeing that is to attack the problem, not the person. Even if you don't believe in nonviolence as a way of life, it's strategy. If you're attacking me, I'm not going to give you what you want.

Accept suffering. It's important to remember on principle four, that it has four parts. Accept suffering without retaliation for the sake of the cause to achieve the goal.

We actually do this all the time. We sacrifice all the time. We have a faith that commands us to sacrifice, right? It says that if you carry your cross, which we are all commanded to do, you will have resurrection power, right? And that's what this principle says. If you carry your cross without retaliation, you will receive resurrection power and can do great and mighty things. And so we actually sacrifice all of the time, whether it's like staying up late in college so you can get a good degree and make money to provide for your family, right? But often we just forget the goal we wanted – a happy family, whole family – but we're always gone for our family working. So you can't lose sight of the goal.

Principle five, avoid internal violence of the spirit as well as external physical violence. Dr. King said, I won't kill my brother nor will I hate him. This is really, really important because often we don't recognize how unforgiveness is killing us, bitterness is killing us.

The other piece of this is that not getting rest and taking care of our bodies, not having a Sabbath, like not treating our bodies like the temple of the Holy Spirit, is harmful for our bodies. And because nonviolence is hard, in a weakened state, it is very difficult to do. Most times when I act out of character, it is because I'm exhausted. Because it is very hard to be our best selves when we're exhausted. And so it's important that we take care of ourselves.

And lastly, the universe is on the side of justice. It's so important and so beautiful. And also sometimes very hard. In the last few years, it seems like things are getting worse. And so it may not look like in my lifetime that it's on the side of justice.

But what I say is, one, this comes from Dr. King's quote, “the moral arc of the universe is long, but it bends towards justice.” So maybe I don't see it in my lifetime, but when I think about from the time my ancestors were ripped from Africa, when they went through the Middle Passage and endured enslavement, endured Jim Crow, right? I began to see the being, right?

The other thing, it’s not magic. God doesn't come down and say, pew, and it's bent. We are the body of Christ. We are the arms, the legs, the feet, the blood vessels. Like, we bend it. We are the arc benders. And so he uses us to bend it. And so I have hope. This is a principle of hope. I have hope because I'm out there helping to bend it every day.

Caitlin Morneau

Thank you so much, Ainka. There's so much richness here. And I think what I appreciate you kind of framing the way that these overarching principles then set the frame for how you all are turning to and using the practices of restorative justice within the larger picture of this frame of nonviolence.

So, can you share with us maybe a few stories from the relationships that you're in in the community. Where do the practices of restorative justice come into play and particularly in your work of violence interruption and healing from violence that's happening in Selma?

Ainka Jackson

So, I think it happens on many levels because we're trying to do things systemically. There's a local judge who has gone through our gun violence and restorative justice training.

And so she takes principle three, attack the problem, not the person. So she is working with us so that every child that comes through her court can go through a restorative justice process, right? So that we can make sure that they are getting what they need, right?

Because ultimately restorative justice is about using something you have in common, like values, to make sure everybody has what they need, dealing with things on an institutional level like that, but also internally. Like at the Selma Center, we had one with staff and community members last week about a conflict. And if you don't prevent it, then things could get worse that block the work. And so having restorative justice circles so that people can share how they feel what happened in their view, which is often very different than what happens in other people's view, but creating a path forward.

But also because we work with those who are most likely to shoot and be shot in our violence intervention program, that means we work with victims and survivors, but also those who have caused harm. That could be a very tough situation to serve both populations. Usually people don't do both.

We do both because we know that there's a cycle of violence. If you don't have someone who is working with both sides, you can't break the cycle.

I don't know if you've ever had the opportunity, the blessing to meet Mama Callie, who was like a restorative justice story in action, even before she knew what restorative justice was, who was a community organizer at the center for many years but whose son was murdered. And she went to court and said, “I don't want two people to lose their sons, right?” And so that's the essence of restorative justice. It's like, how can we make people whole? And oftentimes people are not being whole by going to prison. Prison often does something much worse, so we have to find ways to make our communities whole.

Caitlin Morneau

Thank you for expanding on what that looks like at a very personal and communal level. By just showing up for families who need you at the moments that need you most.

I'd love to zoom back out for a moment and talk about how nonviolence and restorative justice take shape relative to your work to end and heal the violence of racism.

What are the vestiges of racial injustice that persist today in Selma and elsewhere in Alabama? And how do these principles and practices help to undo those false narratives and create space for transformation at those internal, systemic, and institutional levels?

Ainka Jackson

Caitlin Morneau

I think we'd be remiss not to also just invite you to shed light on how all of this work is the way that you internalize the invitation to this work and lead from that place. You spoke just last year with a delegation of U.S. bishops that Catholic Mobilizing Network brought down to Selma. And our team was remembering how powerful it was when you shared some personal stories about the way that you rely on restorative practices and encounters and personal interactions with people who disagree with you. Do you want to shed any more light on how restorative practices are part of the way that you walk your talk?

Ainka Jackson

Earlier this week, there were a group of white citizens in a small town that continuously like, at a city council meeting, complain about this particular city and I’ve received emails from them all the time and I sort of had picked them as far right wing just wanted to take over the city. After the city council meeting, I took the time to listen to them one on one and for them to listen to me. Now, they still may have an agenda to take over the city. But in that moment, it's like, Lord use me in this moment.

And the Lord did use me. They listened to me, which I was taken aback by because what was in my head is that they have their agenda. They're not going to listen to me. But they listened to me. And I listened to them. And so we have to take down these barriers that we have around people that may have some truth to them, but they're not the truth. They're not the whole truth.

I had even an incident last night within my family where there was a conflict and everybody saw it just how they experienced it and nobody wanted to see it from the other person. I was even told not to talk to the other person. But how do you get to healing if you don't talk to the other person? And I said, this person is in crisis. This is why they're acting this way. They're in crisis.

Even though they were asking something that many would have seen unreasonable to us, I put that aside because I knew that the person was in crisis. And so often we center ourselves, but when we center ourselves instead of centering God, I'm not even saying centering the other person. It's like, God, what are you calling me to do in this moment? So it's like, Holy Spirit, what am I supposed to do in this moment? Use me, right? And it makes a difference. And so the attitude the person had yesterday, the calls and texts, dramatically shifted because the person, I just texted, “I know you're going through a lot. What can I do to help?” And the person just wanted to be heard and helped. It's like we have to stop centering ourselves.

I do well with people. I'm very calm. I'm very OK with people making mistakes. But when they make a mistake that's very obvious and they don't own up to it, is when I struggle. And so I said, I need you to give me some tips, Pastor, before we have a meeting. So that I don't forget that I'm the director of a nonviolence center and a Christian.

And so, when we know we're going into situations, we also have to prepare. We have to pray and we have to prepare. We have to say, you know what, this person may not respond or react how I expect them to or how I want them to. And what do I need to do? I have to be centered enough. I need to have spent my time with the Lord and I need to follow the steps and principles of nonviolence that I hold tight to. I need to remember that this person is probably going through stuff, too, and not centering me and what I think is right. Right? I need to listen to that person. So much damage is caused because we don't listen to each other. And I can be guilty of that, too. And so we all have to remember to take the plank out of our eye so that we can see more clearly the speck in the other person's eye.

Caitlin Morneau

Amen. Amen. Okay. So in our last few minutes, how do you desire for the work that you're leading in Selma to be a model for healing and truth and nonviolence and reconciliation for the rest of the country?

Ainka Jackson

We believe that Selma can be a model of the beloved community so that when people come to Selma, they're not just coming for our history, they're coming for our healing. And so as we come up on the 60th anniversary of Bloody Sunday, the Selma to Montgomery March and the Voting Rights Act, it is my hope that people don't just see Selma as a symbol, but as a city and get to know our our beauty and our pain as we seek to become a beloved community.

Caitlin Morneau

Amen. Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Ainka, for joining us on Encounters with Dignity where we and our listeners can learn from you and from Selma and bring it back to our cities and communities and be agents and builders of that beloved community. Thank you so much for being with us.

Ainka Jackson

Glad to be here.

Caitlin Morneau

I’m so struck by Ainka’s candor in sharing about the real challenges of restorative justice and nonviolence as a “way of life for courageous people.” The proclivity toward violence is so ingrained in all of us that it takes work to undo. But it’s not without hope.

In Ainka, I can hear her commitment to the inner spiritual work that propels her public facing leadership and day to day interactions. What’s more, I’m so grateful for these actionable ways of arriving at places of reconciliation “where we can jointly celebrate and implement change”, where forgiveness and accountability can walk hand in hand.

I don’t know about you, but that’s where I want to be.

To learn more about the Selma Center for Nonviolence, Truth, and Reconciliation, their work and trainings, visit https://www.selmacenterfornonviolence.org/

If you’re interested in attending Catholic Mobilizing Network’s upcoming National Catholic Ministry Leaders Experience to Montgomery & Selma, visit catholicsmobilizing.org/addressing-racism.

I hope you enjoyed this episode of Encounters With Dignity. Be sure to subscribe to our show

from your favorite podcast platform, or by visiting catholicsmobilizing.org/encounters.

To stay connected with Catholic Mobilizing Network and our mission to end the death penalty

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Join us next month, when we’ll talk with Fr. Larry Dowling, a recently retired Catholic priest in Chicago, Illinois. He attests to the ways that restorative practices are lived out in his parish on a daily basis.

Let us close in prayer.

Good and gracious God, thank you for this opportunity to come together, to be in relationship across time and distance. May this conversation remind us that every person has dignity because we are made in Your image and likeness - cherished and beloved. May we participate with one another in the redemption that you made possible by your suffering, death, and resurrection. And may we bear witness to your healing, restorative, transformative work in the world. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, your son. Amen.