"You also need a theory of change. If you haven't understood what the big thing is you're trying to achieve, and you haven't understood how you are going to achieve that thing, then you have no theory of change and you're not going to achieve it."

Bob Gordon told me that when he started out as Head of Sustainability with Nando’s in the UK he didn’t really have a theory of change. 

Bob’s now Director of Zero Carbon Forum, and has a very clear theory of change to support the hospitality sector to reduce, and then eliminate, their carbon footprin

In this interview Bob shares some of his story on that journey, and offers some really solid advice for sustainability directors and  managers who want to get results and make a real difference, even at a time when businesses are facing acute commercial pressures.

Read the full show notes with links to resources at http://realise.earth/118

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