In today’s episode, Mandy from Two Daisies takes us through her unique path from hairstylist to permanent makeup artist, and now, permanent jewelry specialist and trainer! Based in Washington, Mandy has spent her entire career in the beauty industry. Two years ago, she decided to add something extra to her offerings, that's when she stumbled upon the world of permanent jewelry!

With an established clientele that already trusted her, Mandy found the transition into permanent jewelry a natural fit. She started small, offering an initial 10 bracelets at half price in her studio to get comfortable. From there, things took off as she built a dedicated website and grew her customer base. We open up about pricing: whether to charge by the inch, by metal type, or through tiered options and how to approach price increases with confidence as you master your craft.

We also dive into the decision to pursue permanent jewelry training, weighing the benefits of paid courses and DIY approaches. Mandy has created her own training starting off with just a PDF turned full blown permanent jewelry training which she’s continually improving! If you’re considering adding permanent jewelry to your business, Mandy’s insights on learning, growing, and evolving will be invaluable.

And for those struggling with social media, Mandy’s advice on posting—talking to your followers like friends, sharing why you’re passionate about permanent jewelry, and making your content authentic—is a breath of fresh air.

Tune in for a fun, inspiring conversation about finding your niche, taking the plunge, and adding something special to your beauty business!

Jen Thyrion: Hey there, I'm Jen Therrien and I'm so glad you're here. I'm a former nine to fiver that dove into entrepreneurship eight years ago with zero business experience. I'm a wife, mama of two young girls, boutique owner, jewelry designer, and now the proud owner and coach leading GoldieLinks permanent jewelry.

I have a passion to empower fellow business space. This podcast is made to equip you with everything you need to succeed from actionable marketing steps to digging deep on your mindset. I know firsthand the heart, hard work, and let's be real. At times, a struggle that makes up this amazing journey. You want to know what has enabled me to shine the brightest coaching plus community here at Goldie links.

We share openly educate and lift each other up, expect to get links with fellow PJ owners that will do just that sprinkled with plenty of fun along the way. Competition is an old school thought and connection is the way get ready to feel inspired. Welcome to the Goldie links podcast.

Hey there. Did you know that we offer handmade permanent jewelry supplies? Go to GoldieLinkSupplies. com to view our beautiful chains, connectors, bangles, and more, including our non permanent stretchy bracelets that are available to you for wholesale. Everything is created by our tribe of mama makers.

What is a mama maker? Stay at home moms that create on their own time between raising their children, serving as a self care creative outlet and supporting their families. Your items come with signage on how these supplies are made, along with gemstone property info as each gemstone has a special meaning.

If you want to level up your business with handmade supplies, not made by a machine, but made by hand with love, then check it out at goldilynxsupplies. com. Now onto the show, we are chatting with Mandy from two daisies, permanent jewelry and permanent jewelry training. I first met Mandy at PJX and learned how she offers training.

I knew I wanted to find out more about her and her story. Mandy went from being a hairstylist to permanent makeup, and then adding permanent jewelry. We talk about permanent jewelry training. Do you really need it? Pricing, showing up on social and so much more. We could have chatted all day. Honestly, I hope you enjoy this.

Here's Mandy. Hey, Mandy, I'm so glad you're here with us today. Me too. It's finally happening. Yes. Tell us about you. Who are you? Where are you from?

Mandy Dormaier: All the good stuff. I'm Mandy Dormeier. I'm from Riverton, Washington. It's an hour ish from Seattle. I've lived here my whole entire life. I may or may not stay here for the rest of my life.

I just don't know. Right. I would like to. But I have been in the beauty industry for my whole adult life. I went to beauty school when I had my daughter when I was 22, and I went to beauty school when I was 24, and I was a hair stylist for 17 years. I started doing permanent makeup six years ago, and then two years into starting permanent makeup, I quit hair, which I never, ever thought I was going to do.

And then, and it didn't work out, which I'm thinking is probably a blessing. And then I discovered permanent jewelry and I just, I had a strong feeling it was going to be a thing and I was right and I dove in and I still do permanent makeup. So I do both. And. Yeah. I absolutely love it.

Jen Thyrion: That's amazing. So can you tell us why, like, why did you decide to stop hairstyling?

Was there a definite reason? Or it was

Mandy Dormaier: weird. So it was after we came back from COVID. So when I was doing hair, so like at that time I was booked out like six to eight months in advance. So I, and I had actually quit taking new clients. Probably will cope. So COVID was happened in like March. So I think that January before I had quit taking new clients.

So all my clients were regulars. Many of them who had been doing our hair for 15 years, you know, And when we came back after COVID, I chose to only go back to hair and hold off my permanent makeup clients for a little longer. Cause you know, people were like dying over their hair, not getting done. Um, I mean, we were all there.

And so I, for the first six weeks back after COVID, I only did hair. Then I, then I started taking my, my permanent makeup clients back on. But during that six weeks, I was like, I, I don't want to be here. Like, I, and I kept it to myself. I didn't know what was going on, but like, I always loved doing hair. It never felt like a job.

My most, my, I would have more stressful days on my days off than my day at work. Cause I just go there and do this awesome thing and make everybody happy and make money. I totally can relate. Yeah, so I started watching the clock and it would be like, I'd have two hours left in my day and I'm like, God, I can't believe I have to do two more hours and I didn't want to go to work and I was like, What is going on?

Like, I never, I've never felt like this before. Like I said, I kept it to myself for, for a while for probably at least a couple of months feeling like that. Cause I was waiting till I went back to doing bras also. Cause I thought, okay, if I feel this way, if I don't feel this way about doing permanent makeup, you know, so then I, so I waited till then and I didn't feel that way with permanent makeup.

I was still like, you know, perfectly happy going to work and I, you know, all that stuff. And I was like, oh geez, what's happening. So then I told my husband and my mom and my sister that I was feeling this way and I didn't, I wasn't sure what to do with this. And I'm like, I, I felt this obligation to my clients because, like I said, I'd been doing many of their hair for years and years, a decade, you know.

So I just said, okay, I have to do what I have to do and I'm going to quit doing hair and I can't believe it. And they were, my clients were so gracious, you know. They were totally understanding because they all knew that I also was doing permanent makeup. And so they're like, we're so happy for you, blah, blah, blah.

And so I quit doing hair and I'm so happy. I quit doing hair. Everybody's like, do you miss it? So

Jen Thyrion: I mean, that's such a cool story though, because I feel like, I feel like a lot of people struggle with going with their gut. And for some reason, for me, that's one thing I'm actually strong at. The thing is, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's.

Then I feel like we get inside of our heads or we've been doing things like you've been doing it for so long. So it's like, even if you had that feeling, someone would just keep going. Cause it's like, it's what you know, and it's kind of scary. Even though you were doing permanent makeup, you were so familiar with doing hair that that was so safe for you, you know, so to actually take that leap is like.

A little bit scary, right? I mean, was it true?

Mandy Dormaier: Yeah, it was scary, but honestly, I was a little more scared about letting people down than I was about anything else for, you know, and so that was a big relief when the majority I had like one or two clients that were like, Yeah, . Sorry.

Jen Thyrion: Like what did I do? Well, I'm, if you develop these relationships, I'm sure you felt, I mean, you were friends with these people, right?

Like that is really hard. Yeah.

Mandy Dormaier: Yes, totally. Um, and I thought like, oh my God, what would I have done if I didn't have permanent makeup to fall back on? Would I have had to just keep doing it and hating it, or would I just like completely change careers and start something totally new like that would've been.

Terrified. So I'm super grateful because I, I really don't know what I, what path I would have taken or what I would have chosen to do if I hadn't had that.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah. And I feel like sometimes we have like this, like, at least for me, I don't know. I think as women we do, cause like you said, like disappointing people and all the things, but it's like also just feeling like, um, you just want to stuff it down because you're like, again, I, here I am making people happy.

I've, I, I mean, I'm comfortable in this position. Like I should just keep going. Like why, you know what I mean? Why even do kind of thing. So that's really cool. How did you decide to do permanent makeup? Like what led you into that first? Well,

Mandy Dormaier: I made an appointment to get my eyebrows microbladed and then I was like, and it was a referral from someone I knew, you know?

And I was like, I should probably research. I've already had the appointment made. And then I was like, I should just research see what this is all about. And I went on Instagram and YouTube and I was seeing these videos. They were, it was videos of them like doing it on latex, right? Like the practice skin.

And I was completely enthralled with like the, the patterns and symmetry of it all. Cause I've, my whole life I've always been like really into Patterns and symmetry, you know, right? The OCD a little bit. Um, It's what helps make an artist be skilled, right? Like, you know, having this particular, you gotta have a certain eye for things.

Like I'm that person like in a public restroom that will straighten the picture on the wall. You know what I mean? Totally. So yes, I was completely drawn by like the patterns and symmetry. And I was like, I would, if I did this, I would be good at this. And then I was like, I wonder what it would take to do this.

So then I started looking into like, what do you have to do? Do you have to be like, what kind of classes and licensing and like all that stuff? And, and I just, I just went down that, that rabbit hole. And at first I was like, once I found out how much it was going to cost to get started and I was working in a salon at the time that wouldn't, I wouldn't have been able to do it there.

They didn't have treatment rooms or anything. It was just that we just had three salon chairs and two shampoo bowls. at a bathroom, and that's it. And I'm like, I have to have a different space, and then I'd be going to work at one place, and then at different days at a different place, and I, I don't know.

And, and then I sort of like gave up on it for a little bit. And then where I lived, we had this studio that we had built for our teenage daughters to, to live in, sort of. They were like 17 when we moved into this house, and we're like, they can stay there until they're, until they're gone. And we had just been using it as like a.

And then I was like, I could turn this into my studio and I wouldn't have to pay rent. And it's at my house. And then I went and dove right in and I took a course and, and went from there and I was doing it out of my, out of my home studio. I mean, I still technically this, this studio, it's a different location, but it is also in my home, but it's a completely, you know, separate thing.

I like, I don't really tell people it's in my house. I don't like advertise that because I don't want them to like. Think that I'm doing it in my dining room or something. You know what I mean? Like I do. Yeah. But yeah, no, I, I took, I took the class and, and then I, I made the decision at that time to cut my hair clients at half.

At the time I was doing hair four days a week. I'd been doing hair only four days a week for years. And so I was like, okay, I'm going to do two and two, two, two hair, two brows. Cause I started only doing brows. And so I did that and that was scary. So essentially cut my clientele in half, you know, so only the ones that, that really, really wanted to stay stayed.

And then I did that for two years like that, like that half and half thing.

Jen Thyrion: That's amazing. So where to, how do you feel like was your clients that you for permanent makeup was obviously you had this existing clientele for hair. So did you acquire a lot of your clients from your existing and was it kind of word of mouth?

Like how did that happen?

Mandy Dormaier: Yeah. I mean, I, it was a good handful. I mean, and over the years, like I even still, cause you know, like. Like I've been doing permanent makeup for six years, and there's still people who were hair clients of mine that a couple of weeks ago, someone came that I used to do their hair for probably 10 years.

I think it wasn't necessarily that I was getting a lot of my clients from my hair clientele, but it was that I was establishing my community as. somebody who was in the beauty industry, somebody that people knew about and trusted and had a really good reputation. So a lot of it was like, Oh, Mandy's doing permanent makeup now.

So by the time Facebook or, you know, social media marketing became a thing, I was already completely established. My clientele was. All word of mouth. I never, I not in the history of 17 years of doing hair. Not one time did I have to advertise for business and I just completely overlooked that side of things when starting my permanent makeup business.

And it's same with permanent jewelry. If you're starting a permanent jewelry business and people don't think of that side of things. And I was like, Oh my God, this is a lot of work that I never had to do. Like I completely took that for granted that I didn't have to do that because it is a lot of work.

It is a lot of work.

Jen Thyrion: Is your permanent jewelry and your permanent makeup in one Instagram actually by like social media or you have everything, even my,

Mandy Dormaier: my training, like I just saw one, okay. I made the choice to have it all on one. Okay. It's all me. You know what I mean? Like this is, this is all the whole of me, you know?

Jen Thyrion: Well, that's what I asked too, because honestly, like, I feel like a lot of people do want to separate when you get to that, but it's like, I do feel it's best to kind of combine. I mean, even from my own experience, because, you know, even if someone might not be as interested in the permanent jewelry and they're more looking at you for permanent makeup, it's still in the back of their minds.

Even if they don't want permanent jewelry, if someone else does, they'll be like, Oh my God, well, actually my permanent makeup gal does permanent jewelry. Like not a bad thing. And like, obviously as long as it's like, it's these pretty posts, it's not something totally off. Object, I guess you could say,

Mandy Dormaier: right?

Jen Thyrion: It's not

Mandy Dormaier: like you're going from there. All there's kind of all, they're all sort of related under the same umbrella, right? Yes,

Um, but. And I probably found my girl and at the time there wasn't many people I found in Denver actually. And I used to live in Vegas. So I knew I was going there for market and I literally started following and like stalking this girl because she would have all these before and afters. So like for that industry, for me, I'm like, God, that's so like, I don't want to say easy, but compared to permanent jewelry, I think people think like, what do I post?

But like for hair, there's a lot of before and afters. Right. So do you feel like you, did you start doing that then with social media or with

Mandy Dormaier: permanent makeup? Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Like, yeah, I started taking Like a million pictures before and afters. Yeah. And it's, it's all before and afters and videos too.

So you can do reels. I didn't start doing videos till maybe like a year in or whatever. I'm like, I gotta have, you gotta have video content too. And then an educational content. And this is what I tell permanent jewelry artists to do as well. Like, don't just. Don't have your whole feed be risks, right?

There's all sorts of educational things that you can, that you can show, you know what I mean? With what you do, like, and if you just Google FAQs, you know, about this, whatever industry it is or whatever it is that you're doing, and you can make a post. An educational post out of every single little question that someone might have about what

Jen Thyrion: you do.

Literally, there are really so many things. I think when you're inside of it, I always say this, but like when you're inside the jar, you can't see the label because when you're inside of it, it's, it's so hard to like see all the opportunity of like what you can post. People like, Oh, it's just chains. It's just like bracelets.

I mean, how many, like I said, how many stacks can I share? But really there's so many aspects of what you can post. Permanent jewelry and like literally just taking the littlest thing. I mean, you could, you talk about initial connectors and do a whole post about how people sharing stacks on like the letter and why they chose those letters or the different styles of letters.

I mean, there's literally so many little tiny facets of like, so do you feel like once you start sharing social media for permanent makeup, like, did that help your business at all? For

Mandy Dormaier: sure. And I was pretty good about it. I would go through phases where, you know, you're really good about posting, like maybe post a few posts a week for a few weeks.

And then all of a sudden I'm like, uh, I haven't made a post in six weeks. And then you panic. Oh my God, I'm going to not have any business. And then you're like, you're going to make a bunch of content. So yeah, I mean, social media is, is huge. And then I also did a referral program also for a long time. I don't do it anymore for permanent makeup, but I did a referral program where.

Each person, the person referring and the person referred each get a discount when they cut or whatever. I think that helped also. Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: Social media, man, it's like a love hate, right? I know. I know. And like, well, it's, I know it's hard. It's sometimes it's like, I think, I know it's like, we're going off on a subject here, but it's like, it's like, I think that the hate part comes from feeling like, like you said, the pressure.

Like sometimes there are weeks where I'm like, I don't want to post it all. I don't really want to show up in my stories. I'm just not in the mood. You know what I mean? But that's where it's trying in those moments, trying to find like, okay, in this moment, like how can I make social media fun? Like I remember talking to someone years ago and that just stuck with me.

We were, we were actually talking about, it was another business owner and she was like, and she's so good at social media. So I was asking her like just tips and what she does. And she's like, honestly, in the end, if social media isn't fun, then Just close it down now. Like there's no point, you know what I mean?

Like it has to be fun and you have to figure it out for yourself. Like what is fun about it and trying to find the joy in it? Because otherwise, yeah, it's going to, it's also, I feel like it's going to translate if you're not truly enjoying it, like it's going to, it's going to come through. Speaking of that, I feel like you do amazing on social.

Now that we say that, I mean, I'm always seeing you and like popping up and showing your face on videos, which obviously now that you, we can talk about this and go into permanent jewelry now, but it's like with your training, obviously that's so important because I feel like people are going to want to see your face and know who you are.

Let's talk, let's talk, talk about that. So when you started permanent jewelry, like right now, are you doing everything outside of your, like in your in studio is that where you're doing both your permanent makeup and your permanent jewelry? Correct. Yes. Okay. And then do you do like events too and everything I'm assuming

Mandy Dormaier: or

Jen Thyrion: no?

Mandy Dormaier: I mean, not like tons and tons. I intentionally try to not do more than like absolute tops for like four a month would be like a lot for me for events. Okay. Two would be great. My husband likes, likes to have me around. It's, you know, a good thing, right? You know, and he works Monday through Friday. So like, he doesn't want me gone on the weekends and I want to spend time with him too.

And in evenings and everything. So, um, that's part of why I choose to like limit how much I do, which works out really nicely because then I'm not out there like having to like hustle hard to like, Get to all the events and stuff. Cause I, I have people to just take, do one on one appointments

Jen Thyrion: in my studio.

Well, yeah, I mean, that's the beauty of it is like, you can choose, you know, how you want to structure your business. I mean, that's the great part, you know, that's the beauty of being on tour. So, yeah. So tell me about how you added that in and like, again, I guess going into. Speaking of basically because you aren't doing as many events, I guess, like how are you acquiring those customers for permanent jewelry?

Mandy Dormaier: Well, so when I first started, I again had the same advantage as I had when I went from hair to hair to permanent makeup, um, where I already had a following and everything. So I just posted, you know, I'm adding permanent jewelry to, and this was two years ago. So like, you know, nobody knew what it was. Well, most people didn't know what it was.

So I announced I was adding it in. I announced that I needed models. To get some experience and have pictures for a portfolio and that I was taking the first five customers at half price, they were like, boom, boom, boom, like I was getting blown up, you know what I mean, me, me, me pick me, which is a marketing tactic to write like that I'm taking, you know, I'm accepting models at half price.

Not like I'm new and let me practice on you. You know what I mean? Totally different like mind thing right there. And so I took the five and then I had decided that I would announce that I was going to take five and half off, but that if I still feel like I needed more practice and by practice, I mean getting my timing down, shortening the how long it was taking me to do a piece.

Right. Cause I felt confident in my skill, like very quickly, like to weld and stuff. So I said to myself, I'll see how I feel after five. And if I feel like I want to do five more, I'll do five more. But I didn't announce that just people will still get messaging me. Do you still have any spots left? I'm like, yep, yep.

Um, and so I ended up doing 10 at half price and I had my prices set fairly high. So even at half price, I was like, I was like, Oh my God, I messaged my husband, Oh my God, I just made this much money in 45 minutes or whatever, you know? And so I ended up taking 10 and I probably had, and they all came to my studio and I probably had those 10 people all in within like three weeks period of time.

And then I just felt confident after that. And then I just started, you know, making, Posts and I, my first pop up, they reached out to me, which was a Galentine's, so I didn't even do my first pop up till February. So I, I took, I signed up for my course in October and they were new. It was taking a long time for them to get the stuff.

So I didn't get my kit for like three weeks after I signed up. So I consumed all of the digital content like five times over, you know. By the time I got my stuff, and so it was like, you know, not until sometime in November that I actually started doing it. I got invited to do this Galentine's event at a salon slash boutique.

It was so fun. And I made, I think it was a three hour event, and I made like over 800. And I was, I just couldn't even believe it. You know what I mean? Is that right? Um, yeah, I just market myself on Facebook and I have a Google business page, which I think is often overlooked by people who've never been a business owner before.

It's so important. Like people just think that just because you have a business, you're going to show up when people Google permanent jewelry in my area and you do not. So that's huge too. Cause I, I all, not always. Very often I ask my customers when they come in, how did you find out about me? They say they just Googled.

You have a website?

Jen Thyrion: I do, yeah. Okay, okay. Just curious, because yeah, same, like, I think other people overlook that, but also just having a website, because I think that, you know, in general, too, obviously helps like the search engine optimization and SEO, you know, finding. I think it takes a minute too, but like, I'm always surprised when people find me also because we also just, we automatically just go to social media.

Like I want to say in days we just think like social media, social media, but really it's like, I'm, I can't believe how many people find me and like message me on my website, you know, just for, I mean, when

Mandy Dormaier: I'm looking for a business in my area, I don't go to social media ever. I always Google. I always whatever, whatever near me.

Or in, you know, the name of my town always. And maybe, I mean, I'm 46 years old, so maybe, maybe that's an old people thing. I don't

Jen Thyrion: know. No, I don't think so. I think it's like, you know, there, yeah, there's different things. So every day, like it's harder, like say you were trying to find, I think sometimes I've heard some people finding an Instagram, but it's rare because it's easier to go to Google and type it's more work on Instagram, you know, they're just meant for different things a little bit, you know, so I'll

Mandy Dormaier: do social media list, secondary, right?

Like I'll Google, I'll find the business. Um, Google and then I'll be like, okay, I'm going to find their social now so I can see pictures or whatever it is I'm looking for.

Jen Thyrion: Yes. And that's why, I mean, no, it can be overwhelming as a business owner and hearing this, you're like, Oh God, I got to do this. And I have a website and Google, but it's like step by step because honestly, in the end.

Yeah. Those things are kind of all necessary. You know what I mean? For an illegit business, because to find you, but also like you said, for Instagram or a social, a lot of people will go there and they, they scan for like five seconds, you know, they can easily get a feel, you know, and if they see that you haven't posted in two months, or they see that like, you know, there's not much to show what this business is, or even have your face be shown, I'm so big on that.

It's like. You have to show your face here and there because you're doing permanent jewelry. It's like an in person thing. Like if I showed up and you're going to do my brows and I don't know what you look like, I'd be a little nervous, you know, like who am I dealing with? Right. So like just all those little things, you know, and I can see overwhelming, but in the end, it's like, it's just these little steps to like, you know, and just, yeah.

Cause in the end it's

Mandy Dormaier: easier than it, than it seems to like, I think social media is. Even harder. Like, so especially for permanent jewelry, you don't have to have like some super detailed website with multiple with a menu with all these pages. You can have just a very simple landing page with basic information and a gallery with pictures, you know, and about me and a picture of you and like super simple.

And then Google, Google business. And this is something too, that so many people like forget to do just Google how to do it. Right. How would you set up a Google business page or go on YouTube? How does that have a Google business page? Like so many people forget to Google how to do things. You know what I mean?

It's really easy to set up a Google business

Jen Thyrion: page. So helpful to I YouTube this, like the silliest things, like how to do something. Um, but yeah, we actually, in my, I have like a permanent jewelry membership. We actually just started. Doing like little SEO tips every week for that reason, because I think we are like taking for granted the fact that like, once you get so used to things, you forget that, like how it is just to be very like from beginning mindset.

Right? Like number one, how to even just create a Google profile. Like we did it, like literally we're taking the tiniest steps. It's like, it's easy to digest. Because honestly, this is like the thing, it's like if you look at the whole big picture of all the things you got to do, it's paralyzing. You know what I mean?

You're like, Oh God, I could never do that. But like you said, really in the end, if you just cut it down and it's, it's really in the end, pretty simple, but it just seems daunting when you see the whole big picture of all the things that you quote unquote should be doing, you know, right? Where did you get your training?

Did you have a training program or did you learn through LinkedIn? I went through LinkedIn. Okay. So my first question then after that is, what is your reaction to people that say when someone posts and they're like, Oh, what training? And someone's like, you don't need training. You just go watch YouTube videos.

Mandy Dormaier: What do you think about that? I mean, even before training was a thought, doing my own training was even a thought in my mind that would irritate me. Only because, and especially some people phrase it differently than other people. Some people are like, well, I, I didn't take a training. I did it this way.

And that worked for me. Right. Some people that are like trainings are ripoffs and you know what I mean? It's that kind of attitude that I see sometimes that I'm like, somebody got burned, I guess, I don't know. Cause unfortunately there are trainings. Who I think their, their main goal is just to make money and they're in it for the wrong reasons and it's not thorough and it's not great.

They just throw some crap together and call it good and people get, have that unfortunate experience. But yeah, I mean, when I see that, if I choose to comment, which oftentimes I do, those training and figuring it out on your own. Are 100 percent both viable options like you can figure it out on your own and you can take a training.

There's just different gives and takes, you know what I mean? And different pros and cons between those two options. And those, the both options are fine, whatever you want to do. And you have to, if you can, Have someone who's been doing this for a while, um, and talk to people who've done it both ways, and to see what is going to work best for you, what's going to work best for your budget, what's going to work best for your learning style, and your ability to be patient and spend your spare time evenings and weekends Googling and YouTubing and Pouring through the groups and all that stuff, like, some people have the time and the patience to do that, like, I'm not one of those people, that's why I chose to take a training, you know, like, I wanted something that was just wrapped up in a pretty bow, you give me money, I give you this.

And then you go, you learn and you then you go and you're ready to start. And once I got my stuff, like I literally, I got my stuff. Like I said, I'd already consumed the course materials five times over by the time my kit and everything came. I practiced opening, closing some jump rings. I practiced welding jump rings.

I did an anklet on myself, which is still on my ankle. Two years later, it was the first piece I ever did was an anklet on myself with my leg like this up on my table. And I. Then a 45 minutes with my leg like this. I thought I was going to die. I know, but don't you think

Jen Thyrion: that's so great because I'm sure you show people that all the time because people ask like, how long?

And like, I love having a piece on like, try and keep a piece on you that you've had on for the long haul. You know what I mean? Because then you can share, tell someone like, Hey, I've had this on for two years. This is what it looks like. You

Mandy Dormaier: know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I just don't like the memories too of like, I'd gotten a new chain and I was like, Oh, Two of those bracelets, and it was from a year ago.

Two of those, two of the bracelets I still have on. So yeah, after I did that inklet on myself, I was like, okay, I'm ready. And I think that night, I composed that post saying that I was taking models. And then that week I started taking them and I was like, boom, boom, boom, done. I think I felt ready to go because I was able to get all the information.

It probably would have been easier for me back then to figure it out on my own too, because there was less information. Like right now there's so much information, and the Facebook groups, there's so many of them, and there's so many different opinions and different stuff that people go in there and they feel so overwhelmed.

You know, they're like, I don't know who to talk to. I don't know who's saying things that are true and accurate. Then they get paralyzed by all of this information. So to be able to just have someone give you the right information is pretty valuable.

Jen Thyrion: So this is like mud. I have to say if someone's listening to this now and they're thinking about doing permanent jewelry, I mean, that's my opinion.

I saw a post recently and everyone, like you said, there were a few people that were like, that is just, and they, they have some strong opinions about it being a waste of time to get any training. Right. And then that also just like, like you said, it, it kind of fires me up because this is the thing. It's like, I didn't take a training.

Okay. I didn't, but having said that I had a business prior, I had, 15 plus years of jewelry experience. I've soldered. So this is a thing. Like if I went into a totally not knowing anything about business or anything, I would tell anyone to take a training. Having said that, are there some trainings out there that just like I pictured, like almost like somebody who wants to get in shape, right?

Could you look on YouTube and look in like. and find everything out on your own? Or could you get a coach and a personal trainer? What's better for you, right? Like what route do you want to go? Does it, does it speak to the seriousness of how much you want to get healthy? Does it speak to the easier things to consider?

Like, is it better to have someone, a coach where I can ask questions to, and I have to research on my own and spend my time and try to decipher the not truths and the truths of like what all that stuff, because that also is so wide, right? If you look up like diets and what to eat, like, I mean, How much stuff is out there?

Right? So it's like you need to decide what is right for you. Unlike the a, the type of training, not all one size fits all for training, just like anything else. And I know I, I even suggested you, like I remember in one of the threads, someone asking about training, because I think if I were to do it and erase all my history, and I was going to something totally green and never having a business.

Yeah. And I'm leaving my nine to five where I'm like, you know, I'm someone wholly new. I would find someone like you, I'd find someone who built it, who is going to give me one on one attention, who I can ask questions to because of the, one of the bigger companies, which nothing against them. I have heard that in the beginning they were very responsive and now it's like, they're so big that it's hard to get any answers out of them.

Right. So like, But again, if you don't think you need that one on one as much, then sure, that's still probably a fine company. You know what I mean? So you kind of research on what you need, right? Like what's your history? Do you know anything? Like we're talking about Google profile and stuff. I mean, do you know anything about that?

Or do you want to sit here and go on YouTube and research and, or would you rather have someone to hold your hand? Because in the end, that is invaluable after taking so many, I talk about this all the time, taking Coaching courses, masterminds, belonging to things. Could I have figured all this out on my own?

The reason why my business went in the direction it did when it was failing at one point was because I turned to coaches and I got one on one help or like group help because I could go on listening to podcasts and reading business books, but like to have that really like niche down help to you and exactly what you're doing is invaluable.

And having someone who knows the industry and someone who grew it like you did, right? Because some of these things, people did not do that. There's a training out there where they're like, they were never jewelers. They were never, you know what I mean? They just grew this business and they, they can't speak to what it's like.

So anyway, so that's my spiel about training because I, I really do get passionate about it. I think that like, The fact that we don't have a legit certification for permanent jewelry. I would never tell someone don't like get trained. Just go on YouTube. Like it's literally, it's kind of scary for industry is how I feel.

So I mean, someone who's never opened a jump ring and you're telling them just to go, I mean, that's to me, I'm like, that's a little crazy, you know, it's like me wanting to all of a sudden be a mechanic. And just going on YouTube and trying to learn how to fix a car. There's no freaking way, you know what I mean?

So, you know, and there are things like I know one person in particular, and I won't mention the training she went through because, but she was like, I convinced her to go to PJX. And she was like, Oh my God, Jen. I'm so glad I went because I learned so much. I realized I was doing so many things wrong. And she took a train.

So anyway, I just, I just want to say that because I feel like if you're serious about having this as a business, because also it speaks to your seriousness, I think behind the business. You know, you want to do it right and you want to do your research and like then a training might is probably right for you.

But if you want to just as like a night hustle you do on your friends or learn on youtube,

Mandy Dormaier: right? And i've come across those kind of people that are like debating on taking my course and they aren't serious You know, and not that everyone has to be right. They aren't serious about it They they're feeling unsure about whether or not they want to or will have the ability to have a like a full on business doing this or You know Yeah, maybe they just, they're just bored, like stay at home mom or meet someone who's retired or whatever, you know, and they end up, you know, choosing to not take the training and that's, that was probably best for them because I think that people have the ability to accurately make the right choices for themselves.

But then sometimes they don't, and they take it back from me.

Jen Thyrion: Exactly. And the one thing I'd love to say about it, because that's why it's so hard when you go on these groups or you're looking for advice, like it's helpful, but please take everything with like, even when you go to the, we talked about this in other podcast interview about like classes you take at PJX, right?

Sometimes it's like, you're not, it might not even apply to your business at that time, but just let it plant the seed and let it like, Soak in and see if that feels right to you just because it worked for someone else. Does it mean it's going to work for you? Right? Like we talked about different things in predatory.

It depends on the structure of your business. Some people are completely mobile. Some people are adding it to their business. Some people are just doing on the side. Some people have a brick and mortar. Like it's really, it's really like take people's advice. Sure. But let that sit with you and see if that fits for you.

Right? Like what are tensions with your business to go? Like the, it's not. One size fits all for everybody, but okay. So how did you get in training? How did you start training?

Mandy Dormaier: So I had this mom and daughter in to get jewelry and we had a great time and the daughter was just about to graduate aesthetic school.

And so I'm like, Oh my gosh, I did hair for 17 years. And you know, it's a similar industry. And I was talking to her about it like, Oh, are you going to work for somebody? Are you going to booth rent? You know, is there something that you're going to specialize in? Are you going to do waxing lashes? Or, you know, I was just talking to her all about it.

And I said, you know, anytime, if you want to ask me questions about the industry, anything, social media, like just whatever, feel free to reach out anytime. Um, and she's like, Oh my gosh, thank you so much. And then they went along their, their way. And then about two months later, the mom reached out to me and she was like, Hey, so my daughter and I, we had such a great experience with you and we felt like that you would be a really good teacher and we're wondering if you would, if you would be interested to train us to do product delivery because we thought we would do that as a business.

And I was like, Oh, well, I do know that I love to teach and I feel like I'm good at it. I have not thought about training anybody, but I think that I'm open to. thinking about that and how that would look and what it would entail and how much and all that stuff. And I said, yeah, let me, let me think about that and I'll get back to you.

And so I talked to, you know, the people in my life that I would talk to you about these cat things and decided to do it. And of course I. I can't, I can't do anything. Like I have to go full, like I have to go all the way with things. Cause again, I feel an obligation to people. Like I'm not going to like half ass, I don't half ass anything.

Okay. Like if I'm doing something, I'm doing it. So then I'm like, well, I mean, they're going to come in and I'm going to teach them, you know, in person to do this, but they have to walk away with something. Like I can't possibly expect them to remember all this stuff only inside their brains. And so then I made this like amazing, super detailed, like, 30 page or something pdf with like all the things like full stuff, you know, and um, so they came in we did the training they're with me I think for like four hours and then I provided them with pdf and I what did I do for welders and stuff I can't even remember because it didn't like I wasn't going to include any of that I think I just provided them with oh I know what I did and I provided them with links and everything, and they, I think they ordered some of their stuff before the training.

So that way, when they left and went home, they would already have the stuff and they could like, jump right in instead of having to wait. So, I did that, it was great, I had a great time. Um, they loved it. They said it was so amazing, blah, blah, blah, you know, and then I was like, maybe I could do this. And so then I put it out there and I had two more people come and they came together.

They didn't know each other, but they came together and trained them in my studio. And again, that went great. They're both still doing permanent jewelry. So they had reached out to me in April of 23 and came to me for the training in June of 23. And then it was maybe two months later that I did the training for the other two gals.

And then, I don't know I, I, I really don't even know what clicked in my brain or why, but why I decided to like, look into doing like a full blown online training. But I'm, I think part of it was that I was in the Facebook groups and I was already super involved in the community and sharing things with people cause I'm just compelled to share and help people.

Like I, I can't not, you know what I mean? If someone asks a question and I know the answer, I'm going to answer it for you. Cause I just, I like helping people. Some, I was already providing like education and support in the Facebook groups. And then I had this amazing, beautiful PDF, um, that I paid somebody to design by the way.

Cause I don't do that kind of stuff. I gave them the information and then she made it pretty. I don't do computery stuff. Okay. And I had this stuff and I'm like, I'm already doing this. And then my, one of my best friends is a professional videographer. And I'm like, so you guys ever done anything like this?

And she's like, kinda. So I'm like, okay, well, I want to do this. And so I hired her and her hubby who are a team and we just went for it and, and did it, you know, I'm like, I'm going to do this. I already have half the stuff, you know? And I'm like, I feel this need to, to share. So yeah, I just did it. So in December of 23, right.

And so almost a year ago, we filmed it. And then, um, I'm actually going to reshoot it. Because in this last year, I've already learned so many things, right? And getting feedback from my students, because I have like 30, I don't know, like 35 or 36, I think, students now. So feedback I've gotten from them and more things that I've learned and I'm like, okay, it's already time to like reshoot the whole course again.

So they're going to come out again, um, I think in December to refute it. But it took a couple months for me to get the videos, right? Because they had to edit it and do all that stuff. So I think they got, they got the videos to me in. It was like late February or early March. And then we, I launched officially, it was like late March or early April of this year.

And it's been going great. That is so cool. I have nothing, but I have all five star reviews on my Google page for my, cause I have a separate Google business page just for my training. That's the only place really that I have. Well, I have a web, separate website and a separate Google business.

Jen Thyrion: It's going great.

And I love it. So how have you been also too with that? Like, are you just putting it out on social media? Are people finding you that way? Are people like through the groups, obviously, just knowing your face, like in your name or? Social media, for sure.

Mandy Dormaier: Social media. I think that probably everyone that's taking my course has, has found me either because they already knew me or social media or the Facebook groups.

And it's been so amazing to see. It just makes me feel good. It makes me so happy. There's been like, kind of like an exponential growth of people in the permanent jewelry community knowing who I am and what I do. And I already, plenty of people recognize my name before my course as somebody who was kind and knowledgeable and helpful.

And so those people, when they find out that I have a course, they automatically were like, Oh my gosh, Mandy's awesome. She helped me do this and that, you know what I mean? And she has a course, you know? So it's been an. Kind of an exponential growth of people sharing about me. I get tagged all the time.

Day, like daily, I feel like people are tagging me when people say, Hey, I'm thinking about starting this business and I don't know what to do, or should I take a course or start a kid or whatever it is, you know? So it feels really good because I've, I've, you know, I have and continue to put a lot of time and love and care into my course and into my students, right?

And so it's like, that's the reward is continuing to get, you know, the recognition by people saying the validation, you know, like, Oh, people, People like it, you know, cause we, I'm sure we all have that kind of like imposter syndrome thing, you know, where it's like, okay, I'm doing this like big thing. And you think about who your competitors are.

Right. Um, which I say competitors, because I'm like kind of same as you, where I'm like, there's plenty of room for everybody, you know, even with trainers, there's like plenty of room and, you know, going. You know, am I, is it good enough? Am I good enough? And so to have that validation that people are saying, she's amazing, you should take her course.

This is like, Oh, yay. It makes me

Jen Thyrion: feel so good. I know. And just like speaking to that, like no matter what, cause I feel like no matter what stage of business you are in, there's always going to be those days or ups and downs. Like there's days where it's like, I feel everything feels great. And then there's days where like, Oh, nothing's working.

I don't know. Like, yeah, totally. Totally. So, I don't know. So. It's definitely a journey and, but that's why it's cool to like, again, if I were to do a training, I would do it with someone like you, but this is why, like you said with competition in quotes, right? Someone is going to align with you or align with someone else.

Like that's why we all are attracted to a certain person and that's okay. It's not one size fits all. Like. They might, someone might be attracted to the bigger company training versus you and, you know, this individual and also to just you having the background you do of like hair and permanent makeup, there's someone who is a hairstylist that is like, Oh my God, she's perfect for me because she did hair and I'm doing hair and I want to add permanent jewelry that in itself is so valuable for somebody, you know, so.

I don't have that experience. So if I had a training, like someone might not come, you know, I'm more of like the handmade jewelry girl. So like, well, I have different things to offer than you do. So that's why I think like the whole thing, your vibe attracts your tribe kind of thing. Yes. Well, I will

Mandy Dormaier: literally tell, like, if people reach out to me, and ask me questions about my, about my training or whatever it is, I will literally tell them about other courses, like other training.

Cause not a lot that I would recommend, but there are a few that I know that are good. And I will say, this one is good for this one, this reason, this one is good for this reason, you know, this one, you know, you might get this out of it, but maybe not so much of this out of it, you know, and I will be a hundred percent honest.

And if they don't choose me, I don't care. You know, I want you to choose me. If you don't choose me, I'm not going to take it personally at all because you decided to choose what you thought was best for you. And I'm going to give you whatever information it is that I can give you to help you make your choice, whichever route that is that you're going to take.

Jen Thyrion: I love that. And then just show something about you too, because like, obviously you're not here to like badmouth anyone else and that shows like, you know, also to how that strengthens the industry in my, in my mind, you know, it's like, because again, it's not about, you know, yeah, we might have opinions about things that people are doing that we don't feel are in good taste.

Right. But it's like, in the end, it's not our place. To like, you know, to point that out, I guess it's just more or less just being like, Hey, you know, if this is right for you, then go here. And then I'm offering this and this is right for you, then go here. You know what I mean? Like giving the options. I'm not saying like, Oh, everyone else sucks.

Just take my training. But I love, I love that you said that you're updating your training. Cause I have to say this too. Cause when we go back to talking about social media and everything seems like, I think why it seems paralyzing too, is like, We all don't want to start or he gets scared to start because it's not perfect.

And we want everything to be perfect from the beginning. We want to know every single little thing, depending on who you are. Okay. Like my girl, Ashley, who you met at PJX, Ashley, right? She was my first Goldie girl when I franchised, right? So I, I trained her. And she always says, she's like, Oh my gosh, I would never get started if it wasn't for you, because I'm the type of person that feels like she's never ready.

She has to, I have to have everything, like all my ducks in a row, like everything is perfect. And I'm more of the person like just dives in, like having said that even with you coming out of training and like, obviously you train people was like, you definitely taught people, but here you are, like I'm redoing the training because I've learned so much.

Like, that's the thing. We're always learning and things are always evolving. So going into social media, for example, start, just start somewhere like. Start and you learn as you go. Like that is the best way you can learn. It's not about ingesting, like taking in all the information. Cause even for you with training, like, don't you feel like, yeah, you took an L a digital content, but you really didn't like, no, unless you did it.

You know? Yeah. Like you can't just, you were perfect at it just cause you watch some videos. Like it's just, yeah. So have some captain do it with your hands. Yeah. Like hands on go through the experience. And then you just, cause even for me. The trainings I've come out with since PJX about bangles and blowups.

Like I'm, I'm redoing that training. I'm adding on to that training too, because I've learned so. Yeah, totally. And here I was already doing that work. Like I, it's like, I've already been making that, those kinds of things for years. And I think through training though, and people having their, like, what has happened to them and getting their feedback, I'm like, Oh, okay.

They're dealing with that issue. How do I remedy that? Like, so it's been really interesting. Like I've learned so much just from. Training and, and getting feedback. Hey, busy entrepreneur. As you know, being a business owner, you have to wear all the hats. You're a social media manager, marketer, graphic designer, accountant, photographer, videographer, web designer, business coach, scheduler, and the list goes on.

I know how overwhelming it can be, and this is why I created the Golden Link Society. It's our monthly permanent jewelry membership. We have a weekly call to talk about all the things, but not only that, including monthly photography and video to use for your social media and marketing, Canva templates, monthly business expert, monthly training, support group, discount and first dibs on GoldieLink supplies and more.

My intention is to create a beautiful community of permanent jewelers that want to level up their businesses together by creating lasting friendships and having fun. This is what I wish existed when I started my business almost 10 years ago. you If you wanna know more, check it out@goldielinkssociety.com or at all the things permanent jewelry.com.

I hope to see you there when you people sign up for your training. So do they have like all the videos ready to digest kind of thing? Like they can go through it at their own pace? Mm-Hmm. And then,

Mandy Dormaier: yep. So like, as soon as you, you know, as soon as you enroll, you'll instantly get sent the link to, um, you know, you create a username and password and all that good stuff.

And, and it's like the feedback that I've gotten from my students too is that it's. It's super easy to navigate, um, really easy to digest. The modules are, you know, it's set up to where like if you are in the middle of a video and you, you have to stop and you go back and it starts you right, you know, right where you left off and all that stuff.

And they have, uh, my students have lifetime access. To the course, and then of course, when I update it, they'll get access to that they get unlimited access to me. I am all about handholding. You know, some people don't want to do that, but I'm fine with that. And I have some students that have barely asked me any questions.

They're just, they're independent. They can do this. They figure it out on their own. You know, well, once they take the course and everything, they're, they're good to go. And then I have some students that message me all the time. And it's not even always about questions too. And I'm always like, if you have something that you want to share with me, like, You just, you know, you have your first pop up and you're nervous or you just did your first pop up and oh my God, I just made 1, 500, you know what I mean?

Like if you want to celebrate with me because you don't have anyone else to share it with, that's going to appreciate it the way that I can. Just message me. So I have, yeah, some people they're like, hi, it's me again. Like, it's fine. You're not annoying. I've got this one student who's fairly new. I think she signed up, I don't know, like maybe a month ago or something.

I see her. Asking questions in the groups, questions that she 100 percent could be asking me because I know the answer. So I see her in a group and then ask the question that I instantly message her and I'm like, girl. Right. You know, you can message me, right? Like, that's what I'm here for. And like, don't feel like you're burdening me.

Like you pay a lot of money for this course and to have me as your mentor. So use me as your mentor. Like I am here

Jen Thyrion: for you. You know what I mean? For sure. People don't want to be burdened by it. So what do you think, knowing that like you taught so many like 30 something students, like what do you think people struggle with the most when getting their business started?

Mandy Dormaier: I mean, I have had some students who struggle with that whole like concept of having to feel like they have to have everything ready to go on perfect before they start. Like, no. You don't. I mean, if you want to, whatever, that's fine. If you like, you feel the need to like, get everything perfect and ready.

Yeah.

Jen Thyrion: But you

Mandy Dormaier: really, you really don't have to. You're going to grow. And plus, like, if you get everything all set up and you have all your inventory, your displays and all this beautiful stuff ready to go, and then you actually start working with it and realize, oh, this display that I bought isn't going to work for me.

Now I need to buy another one. Like, maybe you should just work. For a little while and see the flow of things and all that stuff because maybe you'll waste money in the end by having to buy things twice because it wasn't as functional for you as you thought it was going to be, you know, but it's easy to get paralyzed and social media, it's a hard one, you know, and, and I think because I am good and very much enjoy and have no issues Like show your face practice was me, like do a video telling me a story that happened to you yesterday at the grocery store and then send it to me.

You know what I mean? Like practice being on camera because I'm telling you there's so much value in your customers. Seeing your, not just seeing your face, but seeing your personality.

Jen Thyrion: And this is my thing, I always remind people, and I have to remind myself sometimes too, I'm used to it now too, honestly, like I used to read you a story so many times, if I don't like the way I sound or something, I'm like, I don't care.

If I look like crap, I don't care. You have to get there. And I also too, I take myself out of the equation. It's not about me. It's about your customer. Okay. So this is like, this is the biggest thing that I try to like, you have to, because everyone's just so preoccupied with like, do I relisten to my podcast episodes?

No. Do I like to hear how I sound? No. Like no one does, but it's like, in the end I do this because I love to talk about this stuff. I love, like you said, helping people. Like, I mean, again, my past business, if I didn't have this stuff to listen to, it's invaluable to me. And like, I feel like. This would be invaluable to someone listening, right?

So that's why I do it. I don't do it because how the way I sound or the fact that I say like a million times, like I don't do it for that. If I did it for that, I wouldn't even, I would never make an episode. Okay. You just take yourself out of the equation. What are you wanting? How are you wanting to serve?

Like, what are, what are you wanting to say that you feel, whether it be informative, entertaining, it's like, I'll just share funny stuff with my girls or random stuff, you know, cause I'm just like, that's just who I am. Right. So it's like, Figuring out what makes you tick and like what you like to share. Do you like to cook share that?

I mean you might not think that but other people are going to relate to that, right? So it's like It's just really taking yourself out of it. What how are you wanting to serve? What are you wanting to tell people not about you

Mandy Dormaier: and it is totally a learned skill It takes 100 practice and you're gonna feel awkward But if you never do it, then you will never do it You have to rip the bandana and post a video that you're like Oh my God, that's so cringy.

And like, oh my, my, my hair was weird and I had a zit and oh my God, I said like a million times, just post, just post it because when you hit post and then you see people liking it and commenting on it and saying, oh my God, girl, that's amazing. Or that's funny. Or thank you so much for sharing this. And you're like, Oh, okay.

They're not going to notice all this stuff that I was critiquing, you know, and each time you post a video gets a little easier and a little easier. So the first time I ever started like posting videos on social media or like going live, which is even more nerve wracking because you can't redo it. It was because I started doing a direct sales company, a network marketing company.

And it's just like, you just do it. And then you have that relief of doing it and you get good feedback. And you just have to do it more and more. And then now, I mean, it's been almost 10 years now, I guess, since I've been doing this and it gets easier every time. And now I'm to the point where like when I do videos and if anybody follows me on social media, like when I do videos, it's like this, like I talk into my phone, like I am talking to my friend or a customer that's in my, in my studio.

Cause it's not any different. You literally are talking to your customer when

Jen Thyrion: you're doing a video. Really, I know it's almost like I just suggest you to like, think, think about it. Like you're just talking to your best friend, you know what I mean? And you know, I, I know it does take practice, but like you said, I also too, I think no matter what we do, if we wait longer, we also build it up in our head.

Like most of the things we worry about, whether it be like silly things like social media or something, you know, larger in life, usually in the end, the things we worry about are. Like don't come true, right? We're just sitting there worried about it. So it's like, and the more you do that, then you're more, you're building fear.

You're building anxiety. It's like, honestly, come on. Like it's, it's in the end, I remind myself, like, this is just social media. Okay. Like it's not the end of the world. Like I'm not trying to solve the world's problems. Like I'm sharing about jewelry. It's fine.

Mandy Dormaier: Yeah. Plus, you know, they, they say that, uh, I don't know if this is still the case.

I'm assuming it is. They say that your followers only see about 10 percent of your content. Totally. Yeah, so that means that if you have 200 followers, only 20 of them are actually going to see this video that you post. So it's not like it's going out to the whole entire world. It's not a big deal. Also, the old ones that are cringy, they're going to be at the bottom of your feed.

And like you said, people usually don't scroll more than two times. Yes. On your page. They're not going to the end. Maybe with permanent makeup, because that's like, you know, it's a face tattoo, right? So they might scroll longer. But for permanent jewelry, they're not, they're not scrolling to the end to find your stuff, your cringy stuff that you did two years ago or, or whatever, you know?

Um, so just do it, go for it, girl. It's just a

Jen Thyrion: mindset thing. I think like, I love to talk about perspective and just changing the perspective on things. Cause like, you know, everyone, it's doing something scary. Don't think of it as a scary thing. Think of it as an adventure. Okay. Like I'm going to go on an adventure today and post a story and just try to make it fun.

And I remember doing this. I always stuck with this, like this, um, you know, I took this kickboxing video all the time and the instructor would always say. Don't make it a big deal. And I was like, God, I freaking love that because honestly, not a big deal. Don't make it a big deal. Like it totally changes the way you look at it.

Right? Like, Hey, this is, this is really not a big deal. It's really not. We're making it a big deal. It's not a big deal. Like, just like I said, all those, all those perspective switches, like it's not about you, about them making an adventure.

Mandy Dormaier: Another thing too, that kind of goes into that. And this is something that.

That you'll come across if you're doing videos, because if you're doing a video, it's because you're trying to sell yourself and sell your jewelry. So you're going to have that same thing when people are in person with you too. You have to try to sell. A lot of people that they've never sold anything before and it makes them feel very uncomfortable.

I was not. It would be so interesting to see like. You know, 25 year old me next to 46 year old me, because they're definitely very different people, especially when it comes to my work and everything. Cause like I said, I started doing hair. I went to musical when I was 24 and my first job that I had, I was an employee.

I worked at this salon, you know, cause it was my first job. So you're, you know, you get hired by somebody or whatever. I remember then really trying to push. selling retail, selling, you know, shampoo and all that crap. It made me so uncomfortable. Like they had like the rep come in for the, for the company, whatever it was, and teach us a class.

And they were like, you want to take the product off the shelf and put it in your client's hand and have them read the label. And. Have them look at it and touch it, you know? And I was just like, Oh, this is so uncomfortable. Like I, I am not a salesperson in any way. This is, I feel really icky about it, you know?

And it wasn't until I finally found some retail products that I truly love that I was then like, Oh my God, you have to try this. It is a learned skill too. You know what I mean? But then it just becomes so easy if you love it. Exactly. It's

Jen Thyrion: second nature. With my

Mandy Dormaier: clients. It's like they're my girlfriend, right?

I'm like, girl. I am telling you, like, it is so amazing. You have to try this, you know, and that's how it is with, with jewelry too. And like, people are like, they're going to get one bracelet and then they're like, Oh, I really like this one too. Maybe you should get two. And I'm like, yeah, like, look, like I have three, look how cute, you know what I mean?

Like, look how cute that is. And I'm like, you deserve it. Because they do deserve it. You know what I mean? And that's not like I'm convincing them, I'm just, I'm just encouraging them to do what's best

Jen Thyrion: for them. You know what I mean? Like, well, yeah, it's almost like think of a sales too. Like when you tell, like you said, your friends, like about this amazing restaurant or a book they should read.

Do you feel like you're selling them? No. You're just telling them about something you love. You're like, Oh my God, these, yeah. Or someone's like, where'd you get that shirt? Like, Oh, you're not. Yeah. So, like you said, I mean, even when it comes to hair products, like obviously when we weren't like super passionate about it, but at the same time, like if I feel like also you felt like maybe it was like you were being put on the spot when really it's like, you're just trying to share, because honestly, when I go get my hair done, like I want someone to show me products.

Like if he didn't, I would be like, dang, like what do I use? I don't know. I'm not into hair. Like tell me what I need. Right. So in that sense, like. Thanks. People even to, I don't know if you feel this way, but even when it comes to jewelry, people always want, like, customers kind of want to be led and told what to do, like, really, you know, like, because people are like, Oh my God, is it okay if I mix metals?

I'm like, um, yeah, like, are you kidding? Like, this is perfect to mix metals because they're not super huge. They're small. Like, then you can like, then they get nervous about mixing the metal of their wedding ring and like, you know, and. I'm always like, you know what? People don't see the metal in your ring.

They see the diamonds. Like, it doesn't matter. You know, you want permission. Just like you said, we're asking you like, Oh my God, should I get another? Like, yeah, they need to be reminded. You deserve this because you do. Like, and it's something you have on all the time. Like you, you got to do all these things.

We obviously love it. And that's why we have it. If you really didn't love it, you'd be like, well, you know, it wouldn't feel as natural, right?

Mandy Dormaier: Like, no, exactly. So when you love something, it makes it a lot easier to sell. And when you're selling, you're just. telling someone how awesome this is. You know, it's easy, but you, I mean, if you're doing, if you are doing permanent jewelry, I'm assuming that you love it.

You think it's awesome. That's why you chose to do it. So all you have to do is just tell people how you feel and what your opinion is. And I think we all have different reasons why we love permanent jewelry too. Like I love permanent jewelry because one, I never wore jewelry before. Rarely, because I'm always running late and it's the last thing that I would do after I got ready.

So, you know, I'm not doing it because I don't have time to do it. So I would wear jewelry. Like if I went to a wedding or like, if I was going on vacation and I'm like, Oh, I'm going on vacation. So I should bring some jewelry. So I love that I always have jewelry on and I never have to think about it. I'm always accessorized and it truly makes me feel beautiful.

It makes me feel prettier. It makes me feel feminine. Even when I don't have any clothes on, I'm like, I feel fancy. I feel pretty, you know, and then I can't do a class with my fingernails. Like I have long, I have like long acrylic nails and I cannot do a clasp. And that's definitely not a bracelet because that's super awkward because you have to use one hand.

There was no way I could put a bracelet on with a clasp. I could do a necklace with the clasp, but it starts to like make me sweat and have anxiety because I can't, I can't get it. You know what I mean? So the fact that it's just, on. I don't have to fuss with it. I don't have to worry about doing a class.

It's just so convenient for me, you know? And then, you know, like my necklace, I have every other birthstone. I have six birthstones and every other one is mine and my husband's all the way around, you know? So it's like the special meaning thing too. And I think we all will have different reasons. So if you share your personal reason why you love permanent jewelry with your customers, they're going to relate to it.

And maybe some of them won't, but

Jen Thyrion: some of them will. For sure. And I think that people, again, it just, that's ideas for social media and all the things is like talking about the reasons why people get permanent jewelry. And there really is so many. And I was even just surprised by that. Like I knew that it would be meaningful.

And that was one of the things that attracted me about permanent jewelry, because I always made jewelry before. And I loved like custom stamped and like, I always loved gemstones and meaning behind gemstones. And so I was like, this is so perfect, you know, but I was amazed at how many people come in for these Very important things, you know, whether it be more memorializing someone or like a goal they hit or like just so many different reasons, which is kind of cool.

So, yeah, I agree. Like, I think passion is, I mean, if I were to write a list of like things you need in order to be successful, passion is one of them, right? Because obviously, like you said, that's why a lot of people I think try like going back to like how you were in direct marketing or I don't know if you still are, but like MLMs is like, there's nothing wrong with them.

I think there's people like go into it thinking it's going to be easy. And if you're really not passionate about the product, it's not going to go anywhere. Yeah. Like with anything, right? Like, it's not going to go far if you don't love it. So, oh my gosh, well, it's been so great chatting with you today.

What do you see for your future, like in permanent jewelry? Where do you see the next year or so going?

Mandy Dormaier: I mean, just continuing to build my existing business, you know, continuing to build my course, continuing to build my permanent jewelry business. I would love to do permanent makeup less. You know, and more permanent jewelry.

It's permanent. Makeup is my neck is jacked up.

Jen Thyrion: Oh yeah. I can see that. It's hard on my body. I was like, God, that's like really like tedious and hard on her. Like, yeah, it's hard

Mandy Dormaier: on my neck and even like my hands, but I would love to do less of that and more of this. So, I mean, that's really my goal. My main goal is continuing building My course and just seeing where I can take it, you know, I mean, I don't like some of the really big ones, you know, I don't part of me, like, I see, okay, I'm just going to say linked, right, like on the link to it.

3000 students. Like that's, that's a lot of income. I truly enjoy giving that one on one time to my students. And like, how can you do that if you have that many students?

Jen Thyrion: This is kind of off subject, but just came to my mind real quick. Because you did hair and you do permanent makeup, how do you feel, and permanent jewelry, how do you feel like the profit margin is between all those three?

Like, do you know? Blows it out

Mandy Dormaier: of the water, you know? I mean, I mean, then your per hour income is so high, right? And of course it's going to, it's going to depend on what your prices are and how long it takes you. But I think, you know, once we get experienced, most people take some about the same amount of time to do jewelry, but that's literally still to this day.

One of my favorite things to do is text my husband and tell him how much money I just made per hour, you know, especially when it's a group, right? Like I'll get like three ladies in. And they all get anywhere from one to three pieces and, you know, most of them get a connector or two, and they're here for, I don't know, like, anywhere from 45 minutes to, you know, hour and 15, hour and a half, depending on what they get and how much time we chat and everything, and then they leave, and I do the math, couldn't figure out my per hour rate I just made, and I'm like, I'm like, Babe, I just made 370 an hour or something, you know what I mean?

And it's mind boggling. But of course you're not doing most people, even if it's your full time job and you have a brick and mortar and it, and you know, most people aren't working like four, they're not doing permanent jewelry, 40 hours. But that's part of the beauty of it is you can make the kind of income of a 40 hour work week by working 15 hours a week or

Jen Thyrion: something.

Right. And that's what it comes to. Like, again, we could go on, this could be like a two hour episode, you know, what it comes to, like, actually we could talk about your mullets, but like, when I think things like that, when you say that, yes, but also to like, when you get to a point where you, you feel capped out, like you said, like, you, you know, that you can only work so many hours or do so many events, depending on the structure of your business, doing permanent jewelry.

Right. So where, how do you want to scale? Do you want to hire someone for you? Do you want to, you know, do you want a brick and mortar and, you know, or do you want to offer other jewelry? Like where it's like a grab and go kind of situation. Just like we talk about these earmullets, you don't know, like it just studs.

Right. And then you can have these remnants of chain. You can use like leftover chain and just create a chain on like basically a jump ring and hang it from the back. Of which is why it's called a candlelit because you have a party in the back. And those can be made ahead of time and you have them on display and that way you're making more money essentially by not actually putting time into it really because you already made it kind of thing, right?

So these are like just things to consider, you know, when it comes to, yeah, do you want to end up like carrying more jewelry or hand making some jewelry and off? It's just like things as you get going, the scale, but not, because yeah, that's the thing when it's service based, you only have so much time.

Like in a day, so, and so much time that you're able to do permanent jewelry. Yeah. Do you know, do you know your numbers like permanent makeup versus permanent jewelry that you brought in last year? Or do you not know that

I had a full year. And I, I can't remember off the top of my head what it was. Um, I mean, I still made more doing permanent makeup because I just do more permanent makeup than I, than permanent jewelry, but it was, it was a decent amount. I think I figured out the average of how many hours. I think, I think it was like, I only worked an average of like three and a half hours a week doing permanent jewelry.

I think I made like 26, 000 working three and a half hours a week. So if you have, you know, different goals, right? Because I do something else. It's not my full time. And like I said, I'm not trying to work every single weekend and all that stuff. But if you're trying to do that, and even if you only work, try to work eight hours a week, right?

Normally we work at eight hours a day. If you work eight hours a week. So if you take my number, so rounded up to four hours, right? If I made, if I made 26, 000 working four hours a week, so double it. So you could work eight hours a week and make 50 Gs. Yeah. Working eight hours a week.

Jen Thyrion: Right.

Mandy Dormaier: Right. You know what I mean?

It's kind of like, it's kind of crazy. Yeah. Uh, it's very profitable.

Jen Thyrion: What do your prices look like? Do you have tiers? I do have tiers.

Mandy Dormaier: I have three tiers. I started with three. I've changed my prices like four times in two years and I think that that's fine.

Jen Thyrion: Yes, it is fine. I started with

Mandy Dormaier: three, went down to two.

Well, I started with, Cause that's what linked really, really promoted. Um, I don't know how much they, they pushed for that in their training now, but they really pushed for that two years ago. So I started per inch. I really didn't like it. Like it felt really icky to me. It felt like I was pulling the wool over my client's eyes in a way, you know?

Cause after, after too many times of going to check out and then being completely shocked at the amount, I was like, I don't, I don't like this. This doesn't feel good. And so I changed to, um, tiered and I had three at that time. Then I changed to two because I wanted to kind of simplify. And then I went back to three.

And so I'm at three now. So my bracelets are 70, 95, and 120. So I'm a little, I'm a little on the, on the higher end and probably only, like, I don't go and like look at reports and like figure all this out. You know, it's my brain doesn't work that way. I don't do math. I don't do numbers. But if I had to just guess.

The amount of people that get my highest tier, my 120 bracelets is probably only like maybe 15 or 20 percent of my clients are choosing from that, that tier. But that's fine, you know, because my, my middle tier is still 95. I have more people choose my 70 tier than the middle, than the highest, you know, and then I'm trying to look at my, my, my prices over there.

Inklits 90, 120, 150. Necklaces. It's 120, 155, 190 for bracelets, and then my connectors are either 15 or 25. And I base my pricing off of what I paid for them. And this is something that I say all the time in the groups, and I feel like I don't see very many people also saying the same, my same opinions on this.

Because so many people separate their pricing by metal type, but that doesn't make any sense to me at all because you could have a gold filled chain that you paid 6 for per foot and a sterling silver that you paid 22 per foot for. So why would you charge less for the sterling silver chain that you paid 22 a foot for?

It doesn't make any sense. Yeah, so many people, they do it that way.

Jen Thyrion: Yeah, I feel like pricing for me too. I've never had any, all like, if you're knowledgeable enough about metals, you might know like, Hey, sterling silver is a lot less than gold, but I mean, the same style of chain, I have them both in the same tier, like, you know what I mean?

I'm not separating my sterling with the gold. I think that in the end, that's what plays into the profit margin. And it's all, it's all about perceived value too. So for me, I just. Yeah. I, I, like you said, I same, I don't separate them though. I just like have like my tears, but I don't have them like sterling silver price gold.

So I

Mandy Dormaier: think one of the things that's so great about that is that if my customer comes in and they look at my prices and they're like, okay, I can only afford to get the 70 bracelet. They can still choose gold filled sterling silver, rose gold filled. They have all the choices in there. I even, I do like hold the whole perceived value thing.

I have some chains In my tier two that price wise would more land in my tier one, but they're more popular. They just like look fancier. So I put them in there and they do just fine in there,

Jen Thyrion: you know? Yeah. And when a lot of people ask about opinions about pricing and what you said about like changing your pricing, yeah, you can change it.

It's not like when you make it, you then, because also too, as you get more experience and you feel you're worth more money, then you, you know, that's also a thing, right? It's like, You feel like you're up in your inventory and you have a lot to offer and you know, you're more skilled. Like that also plays into your price.

You know, if you feel like you're offering a better experience and obviously I've increased my prices. Like I remember when I first started and there was another permanent jeweler in this area and we got a, we had a phone conversation, a friendly one, nothing crazy. She's like, she was like, yeah, your prices are too low.

And I was like, really? And I'm like, I let it go for a minute. And then I increased it pretty fast because I realized they are low. So you want to like stick to industry standard. I want to say that because we're like, Oh, well, I don't get it. You're paying only 6. And then I'm only charging 30. It's like, sure.

You're marking it up times, whatever in your head, but that's not, you have to stick to someone at industry standard and then start there and like, just go with what feels good, you know? Cause like even your pricing, that's the thing you got to think about profit. Because of the thing you could charge cheaper and work more and make the same profit as someone who's charging more like you and not working as much.

Okay, so these again, it's not one size fits all. It's like also dependent area and like all the things how you feel you're what you're offering. experience. So like, so there's a lot of things that go into play with pricing. Yeah. That's great to know. I love, I love your pricing.

Mandy Dormaier: I always say to don't price low out of fear.

And if you start, I always say, start on that higher, the highest amount that you feel comfortable with because you can always lower your risk. But when you raise them, I mean, honestly, I don't think a lot of people are going to like, unless it's like a massive raise, like, I don't think a lot of people are going to throw a fit or anything, and they might, if they're a return client, they might not even remember.

And also if they're a return client, the beauty is that this is your business, you can do whatever you want. So if someone came in and you put a bracelet on them and you were charging 60. And they come back six months later and you're charging 70 and they say, Oh, it was only 60 last time. You can go, Oh yeah, I raised them, but I'll totally charge you 60 this time.

But just know if you come back for a third, it's going to be 70. And they're like, Oh my gosh, so much. And then they're happy because you can

Jen Thyrion: do that. No, that's great to know. Okay. So we can keep talking forever, but where can we find you? Where can we, you know, stalk you on Instagram or

Mandy Dormaier: my Instagram is at two daisies kitsap.

So the word two daisies and kitsap is the name of my county. K I T S A P. And I've had so many people even tell me that they took a training that they weren't happy with and that they learned more from my Instagram videos than in their training. I post a lot of valuable tips for permanent jewelry artists.

On my instagram and then I have a website. I have my Client facing website and then I have my training website My client facing website has permanent makeup and permanent jewelry and that's two daisies brow bar Dot com and then I have um two daisies permanent jewelry training website Dot code is my training site, but I mean, if you just Google two, two daisies, permanent jewelry, it'll come up.

Yeah, that's where, and I'm on Facebook too. You know, you can search me personally. I, I post some of my, some of my like work stuff, business stuff on my personal feed, but my Facebook is two daisies, brow bar, and infinity jewelry. That's my official name. Well, where did true daisies come

Jen Thyrion: from? I meant to ask you that

Mandy Dormaier: when I said my first microblading course, my daughter took it at the same time.

So I was 40, she was 18 and she was going to, we were going to do it together and she never followed through. She was 18. So when coming up with the name, like I knew that I wanted the word daisy or daisies. It's my birth flower. It's like always been a thing. I mean, I've got like my Daisy tattoos, so I knew I wanted Daisy or Daisies and I'm like bad at coming up with names for things.

So I was just keeping my ears and eyes open for things that just, you know, lit something and I was watching the news and they were doing a piece on a salon and it had a number in it. It was like, you know, salon 47 or whatever. And I was like, Oh, I could do a number. And I thought 22 daisies because 22 is my birthday.

And when I played sports, that was my sports number and all that stuff. And I was like, 22 daisies. And I'm like, no, that's like a mouthful. That's too, that's too many daisies. And then I just thought two daisies. And when you look up a synonym of daisy is beautiful girl. And I was like, two daisies, that's, that could, that's me and my daughter, you know?

And then now that she, like I said, she didn't follow through. So I think of the two daisies as me and my client.

Jen Thyrion: Oh, I love it. I love that. Yeah, that's easy to remember for me. I love business names that are, especially because you don't have the word linked or anything in there. And although mine is Goldie Links, I'm like, but if I were to tell anyone, it's just a business name from here on out, I'd be like, no, stick, stick to something somewhat simple.

And that's some, some like just memorable, like not a word. It's, it's not to say, or you don't know how it's spelled or, you know what I mean? Like just something that you're just, we're inundated with so much information now. It's hard to remember. When it's kind of complicated, right? Sure. Sure. Anyway, I love it.

So, okay. Thanks for chatting with us today. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Yes. Okay. We'll talk soon. I'm sure. Okay. Thank you. Bye. Bye. Well, how do you feel? I hope you found value in today's episode and you walk away feeling inspired. I would love to hear from you. Let's link up. You can find me on Instagram at GoldieLinksSociety.

You can find out more about our permanent jewelry membership at GoldieLinksSociety. com. Our handmade permanent jewelry supplies of connectors, chain, and more at GoldieLinksSupplies. com. Okay, I will see you next time. Have a golden day.