This week, organizational psychologist Trisha speaks with Samkelo Blom, a thought leader and CEO of a boutique HR consultancy in South Africa. They discuss the concept of cultural intelligence (CQ) focusing on the metacognitive aspect of CQ strategy. Samkelo shares his experiences growing up in South Africa, his professional journey in human resources, and the cultural shifts he has encountered. They delve into the challenges of balancing cultural and corporate leadership responsibilities and the importance of understanding and adapting to different cultural perspectives. The episode highlights the significance of inclusive cultures, resilience, and the role of leadership and HR in transforming organizations. Samkelo also shares personal insights on parenting, particularly raising daughters, and his hopes for future generations working in more inclusive and supportive environments.

You can learn more about Samkelo and the work of his organisation here and connect with him on Linked In here.

I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:01:29] Trisha: And in our conversations on this podcast, we're focusing more on the metacognitive aspect, thinking about our thinking. It's called CQ strategy. Today I'm speaking with someone who has won awards in his profession, human resources, He is described as a thought leader and a catalyst for change and someone who has longed for change, not just for the organization he works with, but also for his people and his country.

[00:02:20] Samkelo: Uh, yeah.

[00:02:23] Samkelo: hello, everyone, and thank you very much, Trisha. I'm so glad that you also mentioned that I'm a vocal supporter of the Springboks for anyone who will listen to this podcast later. I'm looking forward to joining you and to talk about metacognition and to discuss further what it is. And also, how does it show up those culture shift and thought patterns, what we call CQ strategy.

[00:02:47] Trisha: Thank you. And thank you for not ribbing me too much about beating the All Blacks recently. So, you know, I appreciate your, you know, self control there. So let's start with our standard questions. Samkelo, what is a culture other than the culture that you grew up in that you have learnt to love and appreciate?

[00:03:07] Samkelo: culture that I grew up in, in the, in the Eastern Cape side of South Africa was very big on values, was very big on, on respect, was very big on connecting with other people. A culture that have grown up to love now, which also has similarities to that is a culture of inclusiveness. It's the culture of connecting with other people is the culture of understanding other backgrounds, not through my own lenses, but through their own lenses.

[00:04:08] Trisha: Are you finding some of those other countries are more inclusive, naturally?

[00:04:37] Samkelo: So my South African culture, very vociferous. My South African culture, you speak about things, you raise issues.

[00:04:55] Samkelo: So I'm, I'm learning to observe and appreciate cultures according to their own backgrounds. Good example is Senegal. When I went to Senegal, my South African lenses, We're looking for English. So even in the road signs driving from the airport, I was looking for English, yet they speak French and also not only the language, but also the way the French do things.

[00:05:35] Trisha: That's interesting and I've never experienced that one. I think it would make me not want to speak the language if I was being corrected all the time. Yeah. Can you tell me about a time, maybe in your travels or maybe even at home as you were growing up when you experienced the shift, so when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:06:10] Trisha: Mm,

[00:06:20] Samkelo: I'm now having to performance manage those people. I'm now having to have uncomfortable discussions with those people. Those people are older and mature, and they're married and I'm not yet married. Perhaps the toughest one was when I was asked that I need to retrench some of them in the team due to cost cutting and things like that.

[00:07:11] Samkelo: At the end, I was asked to retrench people, and now these were what you would call your blue collar workers. I flew for an hour, I flew about one hour, 30 minutes, arrived in the city, and I had the envelopes to give to the staff one on one meetings. My mother used to work as a blue collar worker in a factory, even to this day.

[00:08:17] Samkelo: So often I'm finding myself, one, to be aware, but also having to navigate. A word that I've now embraced, but not fully, because I'm still learning, is one of Brené Brown's famous words, of vulnerability. So now I'm learning now , to to verbalize to articulate. What I'm feeling about an issue, but as in my culture, as a man, I can keep it inside.

[00:08:43] Samkelo: Yeah.

[00:09:08] Trisha: How did, how did you do it really?

[00:09:37] Samkelo: And now I'm being asked to retrench an adult. And more closely, Some, my mom almost having gone through that retrenchment. So, to answer the question first, it was not easy. I often have these internal discussions with myself when where I ask myself this question, what is happening now? What emotions is this triggering in me? How has the world changed? For me and what is it, that it's asking me to do now? I used to be an employee, now I run my own business. Often I have to ask myself, are you thinking in the way you, you were an employee, or are you thinking in the way that you are the CEO of your own consulting company? So in those moments, Trisha, when I have to wrestle with those, I ask myself, which parts are you thinking of?

[00:10:41] Trisha: Yeah. And holding the two together so that you maintain that authenticity that you, you always show up with. And I can see that process of it, you know, really is the metacognition you're thinking about it. You're, you're holding onto those values and, and almost weaving them together with, with, like you say, what the future is asking of you.

[00:11:27] Samkelo: I think for me, what stands out is that there's the company that I lead, which is a consulting company. And then also there's me, the human being. often have gone through these experiences. And now I'm being asked to go back and find solutions in those experiences. Often I'm the one who sat in a performance review meeting and I could sense the manager's biasness in that performance review.

[00:12:12] Samkelo: That's why sometimes when I say to people, the best way to explain what our company does is, We bring healing to organizations and often in doing that, Patricia, I have to play the mirror because I'm not going to be telling the HR director or the head of IT supply chain the solution, but I'm going to be playing the mirror and say, what did you think of this?

[00:12:52] Samkelo: And that for me is the whole part of metacognition. And sometimes, Trisha, those meetings can be tense and sometimes we can both walk away. But after a month or two months, they say, I thought about something that you said. Can we have coffee to discuss? That is their own aha moments. And that for me is always the richness that they have as we speak about diversity, equity, inclusion.

[00:13:26] Trisha: Yes. And with you sitting in front of them, it is a mirror, but it's also, setting a standard so that they can't sort of just slide out of the conversation. Um, yeah. Uh, as the human Resources professional. You're also you step in as a coach, which is very much the way you've just described and a consultant.

[00:14:03] Samkelo: Whenever I work with senior managers and executive supervisors and leaders, it's around conversations, it's around coaching, but that coaching requires a lot of listening. One of the things I've learned in the last ten years is, there's a clear distinction between hearing, And listening. What I've come to realize is when you are hearing while the person is talking, you are busy playing solutions in your mind.

[00:14:48] Samkelo: So when I listen, When I'm listening, I'm able to pick that. And then the other one we do, we also run training sessions. Those training sessions are never to convert. They are mostly about to plant the seed. They're more to say, tell me how this process works and then how would this look like if you were to do that?

[00:15:22] Samkelo: I find that when I have the conversations and the learning, even I myself as a, as a change agent, as a catalyst. From that experience, I'm learning. I'm busy now coaching a single mother in Johannesburg, and I really enjoy my, we only meet once a month. I enjoy my coaching session because I get to see the lens of my mother who raised me, who was a single mother. So in 2024, I'm coaching someone, but I get to see what was happening in 1972 when my mother was raising me. And also I get to see the fears and the voices of doubt as well. yeah.

[00:16:16] Trisha: So I imagine sometimes it must be very challenging. and probably, you know, there could be painful conversations to be had.

[00:16:46] Samkelo: But even those who've left, they still contribute to South Africa. They still, they still read the news about South Africa. They still have got family members. So yes, they might have left South Africa physically, but they're still intertwined with the success of the country. So one of our cultures is we, we, we tend to overcome.

[00:17:13] Samkelo: I was going to I knew it would as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, so, so we have that. And, and, and, and speaking about pain, my friend who was a clinical psychologist said something interesting in, in, in 2000.

[00:17:43] Samkelo: So, so we did a political, we had the Mandela coming out, we voted and that's great. But certain parts of our communities have not healed, and that is why especially our young people, you know, where there's no direction, some of them don't know what courses to do, they cannot find jobs as well. So there is also that element of pain, but also the certain areas, certain things that we still have not spoken and discussed.

[00:18:15] Samkelo: We could have done better as a country and that's not to blame anyone after all that we've been through. The 30 years being democratic free, we could have done better.

[00:18:46] Samkelo: Our biggest challenges are around leadership

[00:19:15] Samkelo: Yeah,

[00:19:38] Samkelo: Mm-Hmm. there. There was a time when HR used to be only about compliance,

[00:20:01] Samkelo: So HR, we don't go to HR only just to discipline people. Also, HR is also reviewing and writing policies where people can feel they are part of the organization as well, and there's really an HR camaraderie in South Africa, but also that is linked to global as well. We've got international speakers that come and speak in our conferences.

[00:20:42] Samkelo: And I can bring that knowledge back to South Africa. I can bring that best practice to South Africa because I either work for Shell or I work for Unilever or I worked for Anglo Gold Ashanti, and I can bring that here as well. So to answer your question, HR are no longer a compliance HR. They're now a transformational human resources.

[00:21:13] Samkelo: One is doing second year at university, and then the other one is 14 years old. And she's now at, she's now like, yeah, she's still a teenager behaving like an adult now.

[00:21:24] Samkelo: Yeah, yeah.

[00:21:32] Samkelo: First of all, I feel like an Obama because I'm raising two girls.

[00:22:31] Samkelo: And the more you connect and understand what happens in the screen, you see the insights and the lessons from their world in a screen as well. So wishing those fathers more learning and more understanding and also more connection as well. And also to appreciate that when things go wrong in that relationship, when people close the door of their room and they put a sticker that says no entry, We just understand that it's part of their own growth and you know, and so sometimes when we have to, when have to speak about rooms that are never cleaned, there's paper, clothes are lying everywhere, that we have to understand, okay, this person is still growing and we as fathers, we still have to insist the rule and the discipline because when they go to university, when they become, uh, better adults globally, we would've put the right foundation in

[00:23:11] Trisha: Yeah. That's wonderful. And it is like another culture, isn't it? That age, the generation, it's stepping, to understand them where they're at, which is exactly what you said. Yeah. So that, that inclusiveness is in the family as well. Yeah. Samkelo, I'm wondering how, you know, you, you were doing a lot of work, you, are, speaking in various environments.

[00:23:53] Trisha: Cause you do travel across the continent as well. So how can people, how is it best for people to contact you?

[00:24:27] Samkelo: We, we prefer that people really come to us when there's a real need, and we always offer one hour of engagement at no cost. So it's okay to ask questions at no fee. So they say hey, how do you do diversity? How do you do equity inclusion and belonging? And I like what you just mentioned. Now, we have, we have a global view of diversity.

[00:25:03] Samkelo: Or sometimes, one colleague was sharing last week in a podcast I attended, in a webinar I went to, she was saying, I'm based in London. I have a colleague who's based in South Africa, I'm sorry, who's working with me alongside from South Africa, who's in London with me. He was saying many people don't understand it, but because I understand South Africans, I understand how she's coming out as well.

[00:25:31] Trisha: Fantastic and I'll put both those links in the show notes so people can follow up with you and connect with you, even if they just want to stay in touch. So to our closing questions, Samkelo, what advice would you give someone who's going to follow in your footsteps and be a change maker as, as you have been?

[00:26:17] Samkelo: So anyone who wants to embark on this journey. Approach it with an attitude, with a style of seeking to first understand before we can be understood. And also accept the fact that some of the things that we want to achieve will take time. I find that resilience and wisdom Plays a major role in what I am doing, because sometimes it's in those conflict.

[00:27:03] Samkelo: Brené Brown again, I referenced as she says, We must ramble with vulnerability.

[00:27:25] Samkelo: I hope that all our children across the globe will work in better organizations than me and you worked at, where they can be accepted for who they are. I hope that single mothers will receive much more support in the place of work. I hope that the universe and the planet, because of my actions and your actions, and anyone listening here, will be better than where we find ourselves right now.

[00:28:08] Trisha: Thank you, Samkelo.

[00:28:10] Trisha: That is, that is wonderful and I really appreciate it. And listeners, I hope that you have enjoyed listening into this as much as I've enjoyed speaking with Samkelo. So please make sure that you've pushed that follow button and that you can be ready and waiting for the next episode of The Shift.