In this episode of the eCommerce Podcast, and the first in a new series focused on business founders, host Matt Edmundson interviews Ana Estrougo, founder of the Octopus Club, a secondhand marketplace for maternity, baby, and kids' items. They discuss Ana's journey from conceptualising the Octopus Club to its current success, her determination and bravery as a founder, and the challenges and triumphs she has faced along the way.

1. Determination and Bravery are Crucial for Entrepreneurs: Ana emphasizes the importance of determination and bravery in starting and running a business. Despite the challenges of being a new mother and an entrepreneur, her drive to create a solution for a common problem led her to successfully launch the Octopus Club. She highlights that being brave and taking steps, even if they are imperfect, is vital in the entrepreneurial journey.
2. Creating a Unique and Community-Focused Marketplace: The Octopus Club differentiates itself from larger competitors like eBay and Facebook Marketplace by offering personalised services, excellent customer support, and unique features such as Octodrops and a reseller scheme. Ana’s focus on community engagement and listening to user feedback has been pivotal in shaping the platform and providing value beyond just buying and selling items.
3. Balancing Personal Life and Business is Essential: Ana shares her struggles with balancing motherhood and running a startup, acknowledging periods of burnout and the need for better time management. She underscores the importance of being present in both roles and learning to prioritise tasks effectively. Her experience highlights the significance of self-care and seeking support to maintain a healthy balance between personal life and business responsibilities.

If you're looking to revolutionise your eCommerce strategy or simply want to stay ahead of industry trends, don't miss out on the invaluable insights shared by founders like Ana Estrougo. Subscribe to the eCommerce Podcast today and get ready to transform your business with actionable tips and strategies — take the first step towards eCommerce success now!

[EP] - Ana Estrougo | The Power of Determination in Entrepreneurship

Now, that's where I go and get an expert in their field, could be email marketing, it could be SEO, it could be a whole bunch of things, get them to come to the show and we just grill them senselessly about their topic and area of expertise, which is always good fun and I always learn something and it's always great, as you may or may not be aware, [00:01:00] we have introduced some new segments to the show, depends on how often you listen to us, but we have introduced New Pillars.

One of which is where we talk to eCommerce founders. Ah, yes. And we talk to them about their story, uh, really about what they've learned in eCommerce, what they are learning, stuff that they've figured out along the way. way. So today is one of those shows. We have a founder on the show today. We are chatting with Anna Estugo.

Either way, I'm expecting it's going to be really good. And if you were there, it was probably great to see you. Uh, if you haven't done so already, make sure you sign up to the newsletter, which you can get at ecommercepodcast. net. Why would you want to do that? Why would you want more stuff in your email inbox?

Well, we don't actually send you a whole great deal out. It's just one email a week. We send you all the notes. All the transcripts and all the stuff from the show, uh, that you can get on that as well as the email actually is getting developed slightly, but it's still only once a week. Still send that out to you.

Love that. At the Octopus Club, they help parents reduce waste and be pocket wise while still providing for their kids with quality. And Anna is proud to say that she hasn't bought anything new for herself in four years. Oh, we're going to get into this as Anna only buys second hand. Anna, welcome to the show.

It's great to have you. Thank you for joining me today. How are we doing?

Ana Estrougo: Thank you so much, Matt, for having me. I'm very excited to share my journey and to share the bumps and the highs and the lows of what is building a startup and being a founder.

So what's it, tell us a bit about your story. So you're a, you're a young mum, uh, you're a female founder, you've got an online business. Tell us what the Octopus Club is all about. And why you started it.

Ana Estrougo: So the Octopus Club is a second hand marketplace for parents to buy, sell, and donate maternity, baby, and kid stuff. I started it because I found a problem. I was inundated with barely used words. baby gear that had cost a fortune. It was beautiful. Um, my baby didn't like it or, you know, didn't get a chance to use it.

And letting things go of your baby that grew is part nostalgic as well. So you want to feel good about letting it go. Let's go. You know, it's a sentimental thing. It's not just buying and selling a pack of cards, you know, so, um, I thought there must be another, other parents like me in the situation. And my, I was with my baby, he was six months old, I was looking very confused and, and my partner came in and I said, uh, there should be a marketplace just for baby and kid stuff.

So that everyone puts their things there and you buy from there for the next stage. And it's just like a community of people sharing these things and in a way making money to buy the next thing that they need. And, uh, and he said, well, there isn't one yet. And I said, not in the UK. And he said, well, you're going to do it.

Matt Edmundson: uh, revelation from your partner, or was it actually an instruction? I'm kind of confused right now.

Ana Estrougo: I think now he regrets a bit that he's had it because.

Matt Edmundson: Now this thing has sucked the life out of you. He regrets it slightly.

Ana Estrougo: I'm so passionate and this is all I want to talk about with him and he's like, again, I'm not your business partner, but, um, you know, it's, it's, it took over in a great way because, um, I know we have inspired so many families to start buying secondhand.

We have so much to do, and I'm very excited about the future.

Matt Edmundson: No doubt. No doubt. And so, so the Octopus Club started, uh, did you say four years ago?

Ana Estrougo: Yes, our fourth birthday was last week.

Matt Edmundson: Well, happy birthday, happy fourth birthday. This is very good. So, um, I love, I love this how, you know, a lot of businesses, a lot of entrepreneurs, when they start something, a startup usually comes because they see a problem and they go, there has to be a solution.

I can't find a solution. Therefore I should, you know, this illogical step, which goes, well, if there's no solution, I should probably create said solution, uh, which makes absolutely no sense to most people, but to most entrepreneurs, it makes a lot, an awful lot of sense, doesn't it? Um, so you, You started this, uh, business four years ago, because you, you saw the, the need.

How on earth did you start and find the energy to start a business whilst being a young mum? That intrigues me.

Ana Estrougo: I'm very determined, Matt. So the, my baby was there, so I started thinking, he was six months, I started thinking about the idea, came up with the name, and the reason why the Octopus Club is called Octopus Club is because parents are always juggling. We have so many arms and things that we're moving around, trying to make things work.

And so my first idea was visualize it. How does it work? It needs to be easy for parents to navigate. Very user experience, like super simple. So that. Tired parents that aren't sleeping well can go and do their thing and not be, Oh, where's this? Where's that? So that was how it started very visually. I didn't do any market research.

I asked some friends what they thought and they said, yeah, we sometimes sell some stuff on Facebook marketplace or what's up. But, and I said, okay, it's needed. And I just went and did it. I know that if I had spent months or years. Researching and finding that, you know, like all that pre work that many people do.

It's like, no, let's put it out there and then we, we see what happens. Uh, so very community led from the beginning was really important. So yeah. So.

Matt Edmundson: Really powerful because I think, um, and again, this is just a really important point, especially if you're thinking of starting up. You don't need, as we like to say, all your ducks in a row, really. You, you sometimes, they used, they said to me when I was younger and it really stuck with me, it's easier to turn a car that's moving.

And I think it's a really good analogy that actually when you start business, when you start a business, sometimes just starting is, is the biggest power, isn't it? Really? You just. Get going, start the journey. I tend to find there are two types of people, using my car analogies, probably taking it slightly too far, but here we go.

We'll figure it out along the way. Right. And I think that the two approaches I see a lot in business, there's the people who want to have Everything, you know, thought through a whole bunch of information. Normally, if you're gonna go to the bank, they want you to have done that, that, you know, they want you to have a business plan.

Um, if you don't, if you're like me and maybe like Anna, then actually no. We're just gonna start and see where it takes us. Right. And, and, and adapt and move along the way. That seems to sound like your personality a little bit.

Ana Estrougo: Yeah, because I, you know, the striving for perfection, it would take so long to do something perfect. And I think we humans are also just, you know, going along and getting better and making mistakes and then doing it better next time. And it's like lapidating a diamond, you know, and it takes time and it's going to get there sometime.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. Yep.

Ana Estrougo: was baby sleeping, I was on the computer. Designing and like, just cause like, the drive was so big and still is four years on. It's just, I, I, I wanted to help more people, you know, it was a really strong, strong thing, uh, at the right time, even though the world was going crazy.

Is that something you've had since, if I was to ask your parents, you know, would your mum say, oh, you know, you were born? The most determined person on the planet, or is it something that you've had to develop in you over time?

And I just came here and was like, wow, look at this place. Look at the. Possibilities. Look at all these people dressing differently and being their true selves. I was just like, so inspired that I got my first job in a guitar shop. And then, you know, it was just like, so, so many possibilities and things I could be and, um, Just loving that challenge of, of getting out of your comfort zone, and doing something even though it feels so weird, and then getting better at it, and then changing, and then reinventing yourself.

And this is something I think I've been doing a lot of, and that I've been taking it into my everyday life. Business as well, for example, Instagram reels and videos and things like that. I remember in the beginning, I used to be so out of my comfort zone looking at the camera and talking to the camera and explaining stuff.

It was so weird.

Matt Edmundson: Hmm.

Perfect. You just have to do it and then you watch it and then you have a kind of new feedback yourself. Oh, that wasn't great. And I try it again and you just keep going and keep evolving and, you know, be your own critic and, but, you know, just. Go and try it out.

Matt Edmundson: Love that. Love the words you used. Which really stood out to me in that whole thing was when you look back, you thought about how brave you were just putting it out there. And I think that's such a good way to look at it because so many times people look back at stuff that they've done and they cringe or they, they don't want to put stuff out there 'cause they dunno if it feels right.

And actually what I, you know, business more often than not, it's just about being brave, isn't it? It's about, you know, It's about making that decision, it's about putting yourself in an uncomfortable position, whether that's doing Instagram Reels for the first time, or a live, or a podcast, or a, you know, whatever it is.

Just being brave and taking the step and seeing where that takes you. Which I think is different to being foolish or foolhardy or being reckless. But be brave and I love you. I, I am loving the fact that was your go to word when you look back, uh, over your past catalogue. Um, uh, it's a sign of healthy, healthy self esteem, I would say, Anna.

Ana Estrougo: I'm glad, I'm glad.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, dear.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah. And that's powerful. That's powerful. So when it comes to, uh, if I, if I might just maybe one more question on this, Anna, you are. Okay. You have a young child still, you've been running the business for years. How do you balance being a mum, uh, and being an entrepreneur, you know, with the business? Do you ever experience, you know, what I've affectionately heard called mum guilt?

Um, do you, or do you feel like you've got a good balance? How do you manage family and work? I'm curious.

It was always taking over. And then when I did get funding, Pre revenue 150k crowdfunding when we hit one year I was able to get someone to help me with customer care and someone else to do a bit of social media but then the pressure of succeeding with the investment became loud now this is the and I just kept going I kept going kept going and didn't find time to Look out from outside and just kept executing, executing.

Um, and if you don't have a co founder, I didn't. Um, so it's really important to be able to talk to people because what these people told me, look, calm down, because if you break, there's no business. You need to keep going and you need to have that space. The third year, um, yeah. was still complicated, but then, uh, it's a roller coaster, isn't it, the startup?

So, you need to be able to look at the bright side and enjoy when it's really high, and when it's really low, you need to just keep resilient and keep going. But I detoured there, let's go back to the Mom Guild. Um, In the beginning, I didn't feel mom guilt because I was very focused and I was tunnel vision, let's make this thing huge and let's go and let's give it all I got.

So, uh, I don't have mom, didn't have mom guilt then, but then, then later I started having a bit of mom guilt for what I hadn't done in the beginning with my son. Uh, even though I was very present with him, I was always thinking about the business. So I was there physically, but my mind was somewhere else.

I'm not going to get it all done. So what are the things that are going to make things go, that are going to Click the switch that are going to make a difference. The rest, unfortunately, I'm not going to be able to reply to all the emails. I'm not going to be able to do all the content I want and all the changes I want.

Just like being able to filter and go with it. This is important. This can wait and Just keep going. You just have to keep going.

Matt Edmundson: That's really powerful. So if you, if I could ask, maybe looking back over the last four years, would you do it all the same way, or would you do it differently?

Matt Edmundson: Mm-Hmm. . Mm-Hmm.

Ana Estrougo: I would have, I would probably be in a higher state now, like in terms of like growth and because I wouldn't make the small mistakes I did in the, in the learning of the process.

Matt Edmundson: So, and this is, I think this is a true statement actually from anyone in business. It's kind of like, well, yes, of course I'd do it differently. Why would I not? But at the same time, I don't regret any of. The stuff that I've gone through, cause it's usually in those moments that you learn the most either about yourself or your business, or they have the, you know, they help move the needle in significant ways because they force you to think outside the box.

Ana Estrougo: Um, I think quickly learning how to, how to deal with issues and mistakes and having, um, instead of, because in the beginning when something happens that wasn't right, I would freak out and be like, Oh my God, what am I going to do? And like, you know, You know, lose control of it mentally of the situation instead of what I do now and [00:24:00] that I learned.

It's like, okay, it happened. What can we do? Can we do this and that? Would this be better? Is this quicker? Let's just sort it out and then we find a way to do it together. You know, more, um, for the future, you know, it's like, how do mistakes, um, hit you, how you let them hit you, um, and how you move forward and having that kind of way of dealing with problems that are, is more like creative.

Problem solving and getting it done and sorting it out and moving on and not feeling bad that it happened.

Matt Edmundson: Very good. Very good. Not feeling bad that it happened. I love that. A lot of wisdom here and I'm, I'm, I'm, it's, uh, it's fascinating listening to you talk. So what is, let's talk about eCommerce for a little minute, because obviously you've got this marketplace business, you're trying to grow it and run it as a business.

Ana Estrougo: Um, I think COVID was huge for what we started just, yeah, people were at

Matt Edmundson: Can't really

Ana Estrougo: lots of stuff.

Matt Edmundson: can't got a Facebook marketplace. I can learn how to do ads. I can't learn how to do pandemics, but no, I get what you're saying. Sorry, I'm being

Ana Estrougo: No, but, but, but let's see something else, but something else that you don't have control is like how the world is moving. And right now we know that re commerce, resale is growing 16 times faster than traditional retail, which

Matt Edmundson: Oh, wow. Mm mm-Hmm?

Ana Estrougo: uh, being, I, I, I think, uh, yeah, I think that was, it was the right place in the right time.

And last year, in 2023, uh, uh, 71 percent of consumers bought or sold something secondhand.

Matt Edmundson: mm

Ana Estrougo: that's huge. And 61 percent of these people Did it at least once a

Matt Edmundson: mm mm-Hmm.

Ana Estrougo: it's like it's the right time and that was a bit of luck

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Ana Estrougo: maybe a lot of luck, but I felt the need of that of it all So it was it wasn't like a guess it was just like I need this now.

I need to do it

Matt Edmundson: I think a look is a funny thing, isn't it? But um, and I would say I'd have a similar story in the sense I would say I was in the right place at the right time. But in that, it was the right place and it was the right time because I did the right thing. Uh, you know, and, and often that's missed out of the equation, isn't it?

How have you made yourself different in that environment? Yep.

Ana Estrougo: so much bigger than us. It's not even comparable. Everyone knows we are a little baby.

Okay, so personal shopping service. If you are a parent and you need help with finding the best secondhand stuff for your kid, we'll just send you a list of links to shop on Octopus Club. They don't do that. They're not personable. They are more. Buy and sell and there's no kind of, um, human touch to it and we do amazing customer support.

Items are amazing. Um, what else do we do? We have over 20 partner brands that offer services and products that are either sustainable or to do with parenting. These are discounts that we give to our active users. to use with our favorite brands. Um, what else? We have a reseller scheme, which is something that none of these, uh, big guys do.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic.

Ana Estrougo: the other thing is that the Octopus Club is Me, and I am on the face of the brand, and I'm a parent, just like the people that are using it. It's a brand with a face, and we, me and my team, who are, by the way, all female, we really care about what we're doing, and we are super mission led. We, we all want to make the future, if possible, a better place for our kids.

Because they're gonna be here longer than us, so we must do what is right for them.

And, um, it's a well known book now by, it's obviously a well known ancient story, but Malcolm Gladwell wrote a book called David and Goliath, which if you've not read it. You should read because it is right up your street. Um, talking about the underdog and how actually, uh, as the underdog, you've got more superpowers than you actually probably already know.

And, um, great book, great read, but we talk about it in the context of Digital Davids. We talk about, you know, how many of us run an eCom sites where our competition is Amazon, you know, for you it's eBay. And it's like, how do the smaller guys take on the big guys and win? How do we make our businesses successful?

And so obviously Vinted. eBay and Facebook aren't doing something and people like you are sort of starting to pop up and create these amazing places to do extraordinary things and I applaud you for that. I think that's really great and I think it's great that you're willing to take on the glice and go, no, we can do this so much better just by being me and by, you know, being personable and about thinking, you know, what actually people really want from these things.

I think that in itself is quite a remarkable achievement, you know. Yeah,

And so many people started using secondhand buy and selling as their norm because of vintage. And I think if they. Thought about eBay and Facebook Marketplace, like, oh, they are the best, the unachievable, we're never going to get there. They wouldn't have started and they went for it anyway. So I'm not afraid of, of the big guys.

And in a way, I think we're all working towards the greater good. Like we all want sustainability and secondhand buy and selling to be. Everyone's way of doing it, because then it's going to be better for the planet, and you know, we're all here, we're all using the planet, so let's just keep doing it for good, and that's what I think.

Right. And, and that intrigued me.

Ana Estrougo: Yeah, so, um, when I spoke to some people in the beginning, I really wanted to put the donate button there, because I thought, awesome stuff, I just want them to go, because, you know, just use it, enjoy. And some people that are a bit, some things that are a bit higher value, I want to get some money from it. then, um, I heard, oh no, don't do it, your site is going to become a donate website and you're not going to be able to monetize and then you're not going to have a business. And I said, you know what, I'm going to put it there. If it starts becoming more than the buy and sell, I'll revise. It's just like what I said in the beginning, it's like, try things out and learn and see what happens.

And so you need to, people are really Pocket wise, I'm conscious about, you know, their financial, what to do with the money. So, they make a bit of money and they spend a bit of money. It's almost like having an octal wallet. So, you make money and you spend. And then, some people donate. And I still donate some things.

It's worth almost 300 pounds, new, they put it for free. People, our members are very connected to me, they can reach me easily, and they said Anna, there's something wrong, someone is giving away an LV, and I said wow, and I looked at her listings, so I asked our customer care superstar, Rebecca, to say can you get in touch, just to make sure they know what they're doing, and they said oh yes, we are donating, we want to donate all our things, so She was able to donate everything, almost everything to the same person and she had the chat with them on the website and they had a conversation and it was like, yeah, take it.

So, I mean, this is the power of our community as well. It's not just for profit. There's really nice people there that Also want to make this very generous gift of giving.

Ha

Ana Estrougo: Well, I want everything to go faster. Faster, faster, faster, faster, faster! Oh my God, just faster! Anyway, um, there's two things that can really help us over the edge in a good way. One of them is our B2B2C partnerships, where is where we do the overstock and the open box returns. So getting more partners to join.

It's a super success. I'm finding it really hard to. Get brands that are not used to this possibility of selling the returns through a marketplace and instead they prefer to keep it there for the foreseeable to say, okay, let's try it out. Even though in the US and in Canada, there's two brands in each country that are already doing it very successfully and that's all they do is returns and open and overstock. So just getting people here in the UK, brands and retailers here to. Say, okay, let's do it. Let's try it out. Then they're going to recoup revenue and recoup space and just be much more sustainable. So that's one thing. The other thing is investment and getting investors that really understand what we're doing, that [00:38:00] can see that the retail, the resale is growing much faster, that this is the future, that it's already happening.

It's not just the future. It's the present already and that's what we're doing. To see how there's been this huge behavioral shift, uh, from people that want to have a more pocket wise and a more sustainable way of shopping. Uh, to get them to say, okay, let's go. Because we are small, comparing to the big guys, uh, and we need to grow our user base, because marketplaces are all about volume. Well, we need people to say, okay, let's go. Yes, let's do it. Like, and it's hard because they want to see revenue and they want to see, um, and we take a small take rates, but we take a much bigger take rate on the B2B2C and we have five new revenue streams that we're ready to launch, but we need investments to develop these things.

Matt Edmundson: How did you, you mentioned earlier on that you secured 150, 000 in funding, uh, round one funding. Um, how did you do that?

Ana Estrougo: I just like the other stuff. I just went for it. I just said, okay, let's do this. Um, so how did it happen? It was pre revenue. So we were not making any money. We were actually spending money to run the business because we had Uh, Stripe fees and developers doing some stuff on the website. Uh, but yeah, I think the problem is so obvious, you know, that parents are full of stuff that they don't need anymore.

And 80%, 80 percent of toys globally. End up in landfill incinerators at the ocean. The problem is huge. You have stuff in your house that you don't need anymore. You need stuff for the new stage and like it's like it's the problem. So I think that was one of the reasons why we, we got investment and our product looks good.

I'm a graphic designer. I did a nice job.

Matt Edmundson: I love that. Check it out. The Octopus

It's like one or the other way it will fit a family's needs. So that's how we did it. I think.

Matt Edmundson: So, um, going faster obviously is important. Uh, and getting funding is obviously important. What's one thing that you're actively trying to learn in eCommerce at the moment? What's the skill that you're maybe trying to develop? If there is one, if there isn't, then that's fine. I'm just curious to know if you're actively trying to develop any kind of knowledge or skill in eCommerce right now.

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Ana Estrougo: Uh, so that is really tough because it's probably slowing sales because if you get an email newsletter that has stuff for parenting, but also for 10 year old kids, it's a bit like, Oh, you might get one or two things that are interesting for that customer. So that's one thing that we would love to develop soon so that we can do much more relevant content to our, to our members.

Matt Edmundson: And what do you, what email platform do you use?

Ana Estrougo: We use MailChimp.

Ana Estrougo: So we use ShareTribe, which is a marketplace, uh, platform for marketplaces and they are really incredible. You can put a marketplace up in a few days as a test and, uh, it's very handy for starting up. And that's another thing that really helped us to launch quickly because we, uh, You could play around, do some stuff, and I got some developers in to make it look exactly how I wanted, because that was really important.

But if you just want to try and, you know, you're not so focused on how it looks like, you know, you can just launch in three days or something. Like, it's really handy, really good for marketplaces.

Ana Estrougo: I used to be very obsessed about detail, uh, because I worked at really good studios in London and it was like, you need to be perfect, okay, perfect, otherwise you cannot go. But with a startup and then when I started this journey of the Octopus Club, I had to be a bit more flexible because like we said, if you're just trying to be perfect all the time, it doesn't get out.

And yeah, it looks a bit similar. I would never be able to be like this when I was working in studios that are very well respected. But, you know, you know what I think? If people are really perfect and everything is too perfect, you're not approachable, you're not real, you're not human. People don't want that anymore.

People want to feel, they want to feel connected. And that means being a bit imperfect, honest, raw, and just being there, you know,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I totally agree. I think actually, in some respects, it's some of the best content, you know, so you, you put a post out and you go, oh, it's the wrong typeface. Actually, to then follow that up with some stories going, you know what guys, I set out a post with the wrong typeface, you wouldn't have noticed, but I have a graphic design background and I saw it and I started to twitch.

They're these sort of happy accidents that you can really build off of. Um, but yeah, I, it, uh, intriguing. So what does the future look like, Anna? What's the plan? What's the dream? You want investment. You want things to go faster. Fast forward five years. Where is the Octopus Club?

Ana Estrougo: Oh, wow. Oh, in five years we'll be in other countries already,

Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

Matt Edmundson: Fantastic. Well, we look forward to seeing where it's going to be in five years time. Anna, before we go, we do do this thing where I ask guests on the show for a question for me. Now I'm, this is the question for Matt section where you're going to ask me a question, but I'm not going to answer it now. No, no, no.

Uh, I'm going to answer it on my social media, talking about social media. So Anna's going to ask me a question. If you want to dear listener, hear the answer to said question, you're gonna have to follow me on social media. Uh, so. Anna, go, what is your question?

Matt Edmundson: Yeah, no, we won't.

Ana Estrougo: Where do you see eCommerce in the next five years?

Matt Edmundson: Where do I see eCommerce going in the next five years? Okay, that's a very good question. I will answer that of course on social media. If you want to know my answer, uh, come check it out. Just follow me, Matt Edmundson. On the usual channels on Instagram or LinkedIn. Uh, and I will post in fact, on Twitter as well.

I should probably stop posting the answer on Twitter actually. Uh, but yes, you can find out the answers there. Anna, listen, uh, it's been great talking to you. Genuinely love the conversation. If people want to find out more about you, if they want to reach out, connect with you, maybe they want to help with what's going on.

Ana Estrougo: On Instagram, you can go to at the Octopus Club. On LinkedIn, it's Anna Rachel Estrugo, and you'll put that down somewhere, right?

Matt Edmundson: It'll be in the show

Ana Estrougo: Anna with one N. Yeah. Um, where else? The website, go check it out, send us a message through there, buy and sell, theoctopusclub. com.

Matt Edmundson: www. theoctopusclub. com. Do check that out. And as Anna said, we will of course link to all her information in the show notes, which if you're subscribed to the newsletter will be coming to your inbox. If you're not subscribed to the newsletter, they won't be. So subscribe to the newsletter and you'll get them either way.

Ana Estrougo: Thank you so much, Matt, and yes, to the future of eCommerce.

Matt Edmundson: Absolutely. Uh, what a great conversation. Huge thanks again to Anna for joining me today. Also be sure to follow the eCommerce Podcast, wherever you get your podcasts from, because of course we have more great conversations lined up and I don't want you to miss any of them. And in case no one has told you yet today, Let me be the first.

You are awesome. Yes, you are. Created awesome. It's just a burden you have to bear. Anna's got to bear it. I've got to bear it. You've got to bear it as well. Now, the eCommerce Podcast is produced by Podjunction. You can find our entire archive of episodes on your favorite podcast app. The team that makes this show possible is Sadaf Beynon and Tanya Hutzlack, amazing people.

Have a fantastic week wherever you are in the world. I'll see you next time. Bye for now.