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Transforming Conversations: Conflict, Leadership, and Growth with Anil Awasti
Episode 2919th October 2023 • Speak In Flow • Melinda Lee
00:00:00 00:31:09

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Welcome back to another episode of the Speak in Flow Podcast, where we explore the art of communication and personal growth. I'm your host, Melinda Lee. In today's episode, we have a remarkable guest who will enlighten us on the intricacies of conflict, leadership, and navigating difficult conversations. Please join me in welcoming Anil Awasti.

Meet Anil Awasti

Our guest today, Anil Awasti, is a Bay Area native with a wealth of experience in HR leadership within nonprofit organizations. Anil's journey into the world of HR and teaching graduate courses at Golden Gate University. His passion for teaching and how it contributes to his own ongoing education. Anil's dedication extends to his consulting and coaching practice, where he specializes in nonprofits. Get a glimpse into Anil's personal life, from his love for pool to his commitment to physical fitness and quality time with his girlfriend.

Conflict Resolution vs. Conflict Management

Anil shares valuable insights on the fundamental difference between conflict resolution and conflict management. Understanding the significance of these concepts in various aspects of life. Real-world examples that illustrate the transformative power of effective conflict management. Strategies and best practices for proactively addressing conflicts and fostering healthier relationships.

Navigating Difficult Conversations

Anil provides expert guidance on how to navigate difficult conversations, especially when dealing with employees. Practical tips for approaching these conversations with empathy, clarity, and assertiveness. The crucial role of trust-building and relationship maintenance during challenging discussions. A self-assessment: Are you an avoider of conflict? Anil offers actionable steps to overcome avoidance and embrace productive conversations.

Becoming a Better Leader

Dive into the world of leadership with Anil as he offers strategies for becoming a more effective and emotionally intelligent leader. Understanding and managing emotions effectively in leadership roles. Anil's wisdom on leading authentically, empathetically, and with resilience. The positive impact these leadership qualities can have on organizations and communities.

Conclusion:

A heartfelt thank you to our guest, Anil Awasti, for sharing his invaluable insights on conflict management, leadership, and navigating challenging conversations.

You can connect with Anil on his website, AwastiConsulting.com, and on LinkedIn at linkedin.com/in/aawasti.

About Melinda:

Melinda Lee is a Presentation Skills Expert, Speaking Coach and nationally renowned Motivational Speaker. She holds an M.A. in Organizational Psychology, is an Insights Practitioner, and is a Certified Professional in Talent Development as well as Certified in Conflict Resolution. For over a decade, Melinda has researched and studied the state of “flow” and used it as a proven technique to help corporate leaders and business owners amplify their voices, access flow, and present their mission in a more powerful way to achieve results.

She has been the TEDx Berkeley Speaker Coach and worked with hundreds of executives and teams from Facebook, Google, Microsoft, Caltrans, Bay Area Rapid Transit System, and more. Currently, she lives in San Francisco, California, and is breaking the ancestral lineage of silence.

Website: https://speakinflow.com/

Facebook: https://m.facebook.com/speakinflow

Instagram: https://instagram.com/speakinflow

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpowerall

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Transcripts

Melinda Lee:

Hi Anil, it's good to have you on the show.

Anil Awasti:

. Thank you for having me.

Melinda Lee:

Yes, I'm so glad you're here, especially because

Melinda Lee:

you help nonprofits and mission driven organisations. And so

Melinda Lee:

before we jump into the meat and potatoes about conflict

Melinda Lee:

resolution and conflict management, I'm curious, what

Melinda Lee:

are you excited about working with these organisations?

Anil Awasti:

Yes, thanks for asking. So I started off my

Anil Awasti:

career in nonprofits even before I got into HR. After I decided

Anil Awasti:

that I want to pursue a career in HR, I kind of fell into a

Anil Awasti:

nonprofit that applied to a number of organisations and

Anil Awasti:

nonprofits where I just started my HR career. And I really liked

Anil Awasti:

the idea of serving the community, and thinking of the

Anil Awasti:

community as our as our shareholders and our

Anil Awasti:

stakeholders. And that just really resonated with me. And

Anil Awasti:

long story short, 10 years later, I've just been working in

Anil Awasti:

nonprofits and HR leadership. I teach at a nonprofit and I

Anil Awasti:

consulted nonprofits. Although I do consult with some for

Anil Awasti:

profits, most of my work is bent around nonprofit, that our

Anil Awasti:

mission.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, no, I'm just so glad I love talking to people

Melinda Lee:

meeting people that have a connection to their work. And,

Melinda Lee:

and just a connection to feel, hey, I'm putting in so many

Melinda Lee:

hours of my day, you might as well find something that you

Melinda Lee:

feel connected to you, you. And also the people around you.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah. So thank you for all your work on that. And the nonprofit

Melinda Lee:

space and helping the community really appreciate it. And so

Melinda Lee:

what and your specialty, even drilling down further, you have

Melinda Lee:

specialty around conflict management. And so I was

Melinda Lee:

curious, I heard I have a conflict resolution credential

Melinda Lee:

from Golden Gate University. And that's also where you're adjunct

Melinda Lee:

professor. And so it's interesting, because I wonder,

Melinda Lee:

what's the difference between conflict management and conflict

Melinda Lee:

resolution?

Anil Awasti:

Yeah, yeah, that's one of the first classes I

Anil Awasti:

started teaching university. And I still teach that this semester

Anil Awasti:

as well. So the way I see the distinction is that not every

Anil Awasti:

conflict is going to be resolved. With a win win

Anil Awasti:

resolution. I firmly believe most conflicts, like 80% of

Anil Awasti:

conflicts can be resolved with a win win, meaning both parties

Anil Awasti:

can actually have everything they want. Maybe not in the

Anil Awasti:

manner that they wanted, but they have to collect a genuine

Anil Awasti:

emotions, you still have their interest and their goals be met.

Anil Awasti:

Conflict Resolution, on the other hand, if I'm sorry,

Anil Awasti:

conflict management, on the other hand, I believe is for

Anil Awasti:

those like 20% or so conflicts that aren't going to result in a

Anil Awasti:

win win. Where you have to agree to disagree, but how you agree

Anil Awasti:

to disagree, I think is what matters. It matters in workplace

Anil Awasti:

relationships. And I think it matters in close personal

Anil Awasti:

relationships. So I think how you manage that disagreement is

Anil Awasti:

where conflict management shines. And that's why I use the

Anil Awasti:

use the term conflict management in my class more than I use

Anil Awasti:

conflict resolution.

Melinda Lee:

Oh, that's really interesting. So do the conflict

Melinda Lee:

management is that for specifically, once you've

Melinda Lee:

identified, we're not going to be able to resolve this. And

Melinda Lee:

then this is where the class filled in the gap for the 20%,

Melinda Lee:

or you kind of cover the whole gamut

Anil Awasti:

will occur the whole time. Okay, mostly, it's

Anil Awasti:

more easy for me to illustrate this. And those Yeah, those

Anil Awasti:

areas where all of our needs are not going to be met, as opposed

Anil Awasti:

to a compromise where we meet halfway, I give up something,

Anil Awasti:

you give up something and I get something and you get something,

Anil Awasti:

well, we might not be completely satisfied, but we have to move

Anil Awasti:

on. Because conflict just isn't over. When you have a

Anil Awasti:

resolution. You have to manage the aftermath, the emotions and

Anil Awasti:

all, all those things that, you know, come to the forefront, and

Anil Awasti:

can put our relationships in danger. If they're right. Right.

Anil Awasti:

Right. Right. Because like you said, you we are going to still

Anil Awasti:

continue to work with these people. This is conflict

Anil Awasti:

management, assuming that we are going to work with these people.

Anil Awasti:

And so how do we go through it? Tell me more about what you said

Anil Awasti:

about how we're getting to the the end or the the the not

Anil Awasti:

there's no resolution, but how in the process of managing the

Anil Awasti:

conflict. Tell me more about what that means. Yeah, it's to

Anil Awasti:

me what that means is my relationship with you. Yeah,

Anil Awasti:

more important to me than when right now? Yeah. Because

Anil Awasti:

sometimes you might get a win right now, but you'll do you'll

Anil Awasti:

incur a net loss over a period of time because you do more

Anil Awasti:

damage to the relationship than is necessary. So I think that's

Anil Awasti:

what it means to me. You know, if you back into it compromise,

Anil Awasti:

like I said, Well, you might not get everything. But maybe next,

Anil Awasti:

I suppose you're in conflict with your spouse or another

Anil Awasti:

loved one or close personal relationship. Maybe I got a

Anil Awasti:

little bit more out of the deal than you this time. And next

Anil Awasti:

time, I'm gonna manage this as maybe I'm gonna give it a bit

Anil Awasti:

more. One party isn't always getting the short end of the

Anil Awasti:

stick. So that's, that's the my opinion how you these number of

Anil Awasti:

acts that you do after conflict, to either destroy the

Anil Awasti:

relationship, or strengthen the relationship? Because

Anil Awasti:

relationships don't mean we're gonna be in agreement all the

Anil Awasti:

time. Right, right. This reminds me of this is this has nothing

Anil Awasti:

to do with conflict. But it actually just reminds me of my

Anil Awasti:

mom who had cancer. And when something like this happens, and

Anil Awasti:

you're about to go into conflict, you can do a couple of

Anil Awasti:

things, right. But she had cancer, she did everything that

Anil Awasti:

she needed to do to fight this cancer. For her in her

Anil Awasti:

perspective, there's a lot of ways to go about it. But she did

Anil Awasti:

her, her chemotherapy or radiation, she did the surgery.

Anil Awasti:

And there's some people that are going to fight the whole way, be

Anil Awasti:

upset the whole way and angry and yell at everybody around

Anil Awasti:

her. And there's something for her, she was just the kindest

Anil Awasti:

person, she was still just warm and, and so this is what we're

Anil Awasti:

talking about the process, right? When you're in a

Anil Awasti:

conflict, you can go about it a couple of ways. You can be angry

Anil Awasti:

and yell, or you can really try your best to to, to listen to

Anil Awasti:

have empathy, you're the outcome, like you said, it was

Anil Awasti:

no resolution, because she ended up passing away. But then when

Anil Awasti:

we reflect back about the whole process of what she had gone

Anil Awasti:

through, it was like, like, how she went about to do it was was

Anil Awasti:

what she wanted and what I remember. So like you said,

Anil Awasti:

like, if we're in a relationship with somebody, and we're having

Anil Awasti:

conflict, and you reflect back, even though there's no

Anil Awasti:

resolution, her first date for my mom, and there was no

Anil Awasti:

beneficial outcome for her that was not the outcome that she

Anil Awasti:

wanted. But I think yeah, but I think I think that her process

Anil Awasti:

of how she went about it, that's exactly what she wanted to do.

Anil Awasti:

I'm so sorry to hear. Yeah, I just for whatever reason, I'm

Anil Awasti:

sorry, you know, thinking about that. But I think that

Anil Awasti:

hopefully, that will help people see what, when you reflect that.

Anil Awasti:

And this moment, because you could do a lot of damage in

Anil Awasti:

those times. Yeah. Right. You know, we can either talk about

Anil Awasti:

this now or some other time, but emotions are internal facts.

Anil Awasti:

That's how I talk in my in my classes, and people often make

Anil Awasti:

these types of assertions. So you shouldn't get mad, you

Anil Awasti:

shouldn't feel that way. Well, they are. Right. Well, it just

Anil Awasti:

is what it is and to be acknowledged during conflict.

Anil Awasti:

Not acted out, but acknowledged. Yes, yeah. Part of it behind and

Anil Awasti:

in, which is, you know, very strong stimulus, in emotions are

Anil Awasti:

acknowledging them and trying to understand the emotions the

Anil Awasti:

others going through will help you get to a better resolution.

Anil Awasti:

And oh, right, I think both as well, right, I think both ends,

Anil Awasti:

right. As a person, if I'm angry, I have a I can decide

Anil Awasti:

whether I'm going to act out on it.

Melinda Lee:

Right. The Oh, and also the receiver. Like you

Melinda Lee:

said, sometimes people will say you shouldn't feel angry. But if

Melinda Lee:

you're the receiver of this anger, like you said,

Melinda Lee:

acknowledging that anger, but when both parties can do that,

Melinda Lee:

and just acknowledge it. And then decide whether you want to

Melinda Lee:

act on it. If you have a lot of anger than that, perhaps like if

Melinda Lee:

you're thinking about back about the process, maybe we don't want

Melinda Lee:

to act out on it and give yourself some time and space

Anil Awasti:

emotions are complicated, I mean, on the

Anil Awasti:

surface observable, but actually the emotion the person is

Anil Awasti:

feeling there might be men tend to do this a lot. They will

Anil Awasti:

mask, you know, fear with anger. Right? Not all men, but it's,

Anil Awasti:

you know, overwhelmingly men do this. So understanding what

Anil Awasti:

emotion someone is feeling and to navigate those is incredibly

Anil Awasti:

important in conflict. I did the whole lecture on that in my

Anil Awasti:

classes.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah. Can you share one tip or one? How to how to

Melinda Lee:

manage it. From your perspective?

Anil Awasti:

First, the biggest tip I can share is recognise

Anil Awasti:

your own emotions. Are you in fact angry? Or you're afraid?

Anil Awasti:

For women? Are you actually thinking it's not a big deal and

Anil Awasti:

you're just avoiding? Or is it a really big deal and just masking

Anil Awasti:

that anxiety of having to deal with a conflict with just an

Anil Awasti:

avoidant behaviour so recognising emotions is a great

Anil Awasti:

place to start.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, most of us will avoid it because it's so

Melinda Lee:

uncomfortable.

Anil Awasti:

Yeah, it is

Melinda Lee:

It is uncomfortable, and what is the

Melinda Lee:

opportunity when we can? Go? And?

Anil Awasti:

Well, I mean, if you're talking about this in the

Anil Awasti:

context of managers and their roles and conflict management,

Anil Awasti:

right, I'm often times in my career managers come to me. And

Anil Awasti:

they're talking about a certain type of conflict that their

Anil Awasti:

employees are facing. And, you know, I talk through them, I can

Anil Awasti:

give you some coaching. And, you know, I'll ask questions about

Anil Awasti:

what the employee has done, because remember, we are talking

Anil Awasti:

about adults here. The employee done to resolve this, oh, the

Anil Awasti:

employee feels uncomfortable, or they feel uncomfortable coming

Anil Awasti:

to you directly. That's it. Okay. And as the manager, how

Anil Awasti:

have you addressed that, most of the time they address it by by

Anil Awasti:

taking over the responsibility. And that is a disservice, in my

Anil Awasti:

opinion to the employee and the organisation. Being

Anil Awasti:

uncomfortable is not a good enough reason to avoid

Anil Awasti:

something. That's how you learn. That's how you grow. And it's

Anil Awasti:

not a manager's job to provide a comfortable environment. A

Anil Awasti:

manager's job is to provide a safe environment.

Melinda Lee:

Got it, I love that. That's so true.

Anil Awasti:

So providing a safe environment means you'd have to

Anil Awasti:

encourage appropriate risk taking, right. One of the some

Anil Awasti:

of the biggest issues I see with managers, our managers avoid

Anil Awasti:

dealing with conflict managers, tend to be conflict avoidant.

Anil Awasti:

And one of the biggest complaints about managers is

Anil Awasti:

they do not handle conflict, they either open or just go

Anil Awasti:

away, or either pretend like it just doesn't exist. So they're

Anil Awasti:

avoided. Some other things that they do is they engage or they

Anil Awasti:

create a situation are avoidable conflict, actually flourishes.

Anil Awasti:

And people engage in conflict, easily avoided by having unclear

Anil Awasti:

expectations, unclear job descriptions, or setting up

Anil Awasti:

setting up situations where people are competing against

Anil Awasti:

each other for no reason. You should be eliminated. Right?

Anil Awasti:

Right. positions, incredibly healthy, right? It has to be

Anil Awasti:

deliberate. But when from an employee's perspective, they

Anil Awasti:

have unclear directions, they feel they're responsible for

Anil Awasti:

something or have jurisdiction over something. So to someone

Anil Awasti:

else, well, that's going to result in conflict. Coupled with

Anil Awasti:

a manager that is avoidant, it's just going to play off for a

Anil Awasti:

long period of time until it blows up. Wow. So the last thing

Anil Awasti:

managers, because what I illustrated the beginning is

Anil Awasti:

they feel the need to to go to the rescue of the person that's

Anil Awasti:

complaining. And while mediation is a powerful tool, it shouldn't

Anil Awasti:

be the first step. Not every, right for mediation. Managers

Anil Awasti:

roles I believe, are to teach to coach to facilitate, but

Anil Awasti:

facilitation comes later. That's the mediation piece, right? Uh,

Anil Awasti:

taking the time to think through what the per the complainant,

Anil Awasti:

that person has come to you with a conflict situation, what, you

Anil Awasti:

know, what is your role in this conflict? How have you

Anil Awasti:

contributed to it? What are your goals? How would you like to see

Anil Awasti:

it resolved? What can you say to this person? How can you

Anil Awasti:

approach them, spending the time and thinking through all of

Anil Awasti:

these is going to do more service for the employee and the

Anil Awasti:

organisation and the managers time in the future? Because they

Anil Awasti:

won't have to jump in every conflict. Right now.

Melinda Lee:

How do they know how does the manager know

Melinda Lee:

whether they're avoiding or not,

Anil Awasti:

How does a manager know if they're avoiding or not?

Anil Awasti:

Yeah.

Melinda Lee:

Clear something?

Anil Awasti:

Well, I think, you know, I think working with a

Anil Awasti:

coach is good. asking, you know, asking your staff for feedback,

Anil Awasti:

how well do you write conflict?

Melinda Lee:

That's a good one. That's a good one. Yeah. Yeah.

Anil Awasti:

There's nothing remarkable about it asking for

Anil Awasti:

feedback. But it's also uncomfortable. And, and yeah, if

Anil Awasti:

you're coming from a collectivistic culture or saving

Anil Awasti:

face, right, is the norm, you're probably not going to want to

Anil Awasti:

ask those types of questions. And if you're an employee coming

Anil Awasti:

from collectivistic, cultures are probably not going to want

Anil Awasti:

to, to give direct feedback to your superior either. So you

Anil Awasti:

have to ask in different ways.

Melinda Lee:

Yeah, I mean, anonymous survey would be

Melinda Lee:

helpful to get some feedback. And because, yeah, I mean,

Melinda Lee:

especially if you want, right, right, if you want to understand

Melinda Lee:

where there's some blind spots or as a manager, right, what can

Melinda Lee:

I do? You can put it more holistically. Yeah, what what

Melinda Lee:

can I do to be a better manager?

Anil Awasti:

And then I think a good place to start for managers

Anil Awasti:

is learning assertiveness skills. Yeah. So if somebody

Anil Awasti:

comes to you with a conflict situation, quickly assess it and

Anil Awasti:

like, you know, I'm happy to help but I really want you to

Anil Awasti:

deal with I really wish you guys would deal with it first. And if

Anil Awasti:

you can't get me Do you see the responsibility back on the

Anil Awasti:

employee? Make yourself available if they need help,

Anil Awasti:

they want to talk. But don't just jump in there, like I might

Anil Awasti:

go into the rescue one of your employees, they're

Anil Awasti:

uncomfortable, they'll be fine.

Melinda Lee:

What are you finding is the one of the

Melinda Lee:

primary challenges you mentioned, they avoid it. And

Melinda Lee:

they're avoiding because they're not giving. They don't know how

Melinda Lee:

to give direct feedback, or?

Anil Awasti:

Well, there are a number of reasons. Not all of

Anil Awasti:

them apply to everybody. Some people are naturally conflict

Anil Awasti:

avoidant strategy that they've practised ever since childhood,

Anil Awasti:

so they have a lot of competency with that strategy. And our job

Anil Awasti:

is to kind of get them to develop some level of competency

Anil Awasti:

with other areas like collaboration, accommodation,

Anil Awasti:

compromise, even competition. That others, it's just

Anil Awasti:

uncomfortable. Another reason it's uncomfortable, so they're

Anil Awasti:

rather not got it.

Melinda Lee:

And that's probably where we want to lean into when

Melinda Lee:

we're finding discomfort with something that, like you said,

Melinda Lee:

it's not about avoiding the discomfort, but it's about hate.

Melinda Lee:

Because you you and your team, we're all feeling discomfort.

Melinda Lee:

But as a manager, you want to be the safety, but like provide

Melinda Lee:

safety to go and lean into the discomfort because that's where

Melinda Lee:

you're gonna grow. Yeah, those are the areas Yeah, yeah,

Anil Awasti:

I just ran a couple of workshops over the last four

Anil Awasti:

weeks or so for a couple of my clients conflict management. And

Anil Awasti:

I was asked, I want to do my trainings on performance

Anil Awasti:

management, and interview skills, things like that. I

Anil Awasti:

always ask if the manager has ever received such a training

Anil Awasti:

before, and almost always, no hands go up. And it's so

Anil Awasti:

interesting, even in 2023, we put people in leadership roles,

Anil Awasti:

and not give them the tool because they're really good at

Anil Awasti:

the job, they're really good at attacking a piece of their jobs.

Anil Awasti:

But we forget that the leadership skills need to be

Anil Awasti:

developed. And it's okay to put a high performer in those roles,

Anil Awasti:

but you have to give them the tools as well. And sometimes the

Anil Awasti:

field that managers believe that now they're their manager, they

Anil Awasti:

have those skills, right? And they end up going to mediation,

Anil Awasti:

I think is going to do more harm than good. Because having, you

Anil Awasti:

know spent time practising or learning some theory or just,

Anil Awasti:

you know, the only thing to do is go on without preparation,

Anil Awasti:

remediation meeting, you know, I spent an hour or two hours

Anil Awasti:

prepping for the mediation meeting. So it takes time,

Anil Awasti:

right, you can do back to back, you can have back to back

Anil Awasti:

meeting scheduled and you just walk into mediation without any

Anil Awasti:

prep, that's gonna do a lot of harm. Right, right.

Melinda Lee:

I agree. And mediation is almost like the

Melinda Lee:

last step. If you can have these skill sets in the skill

Melinda Lee:

beforehand, before mediation, then you're actually going to

Melinda Lee:

avoid that mediation altogether. The goal?

Anil Awasti:

Absolutely. You want a mediation? Right, right.

Anil Awasti:

Sometimes you need external help, and that's okay. Right.

Anil Awasti:

Right. And like you said, I mean, because I think the

Anil Awasti:

managers, yeah, they they know all of the technical aspects of

Anil Awasti:

it. But this is all I don't think there's an end. Yes, you

Anil Awasti:

may know, some conflict management skills.

Melinda Lee:

But why why Kap it? Like, there's always more to

Melinda Lee:

learn as when I'm thinking, they might think I have some basic, I

Melinda Lee:

got this, I'm good. And then well, you know, what they don't

Melinda Lee:

realise is that I think that there's more to learn. There's

Melinda Lee:

always Yeah, skills that we can evolve and get better at, like

Melinda Lee:

these types of things.

Anil Awasti:

Yeah, people are listening. And they can think

Anil Awasti:

back to a conflict, a mediated leader, right? Even if they

Anil Awasti:

weren't a leader, and then mediate of the conflict. Maybe

Anil Awasti:

it went, Well, maybe it didn't go well. But in their minds, if

Anil Awasti:

you guys want to do like a post mortem and see what actually,

Anil Awasti:

you did that worked well, and things you did that did not

Anil Awasti:

work. Well. What what do you do differently? Yeah, I think

Anil Awasti:

recent conflict, that's a good tool as well. So at least you're

Anil Awasti:

continually improving, you know, by having a meeting with

Anil Awasti:

yourself, right?

Melinda Lee:

Can you share a example of a client that you

Melinda Lee:

work with like it was a before the the client was working with

Melinda Lee:

you before having these skills and then what happened after you

Melinda Lee:

started working, or finish working with the client?

Anil Awasti:

I'm sure. There's a client of mine in San Francisco

Anil Awasti:

they're having. They're having challenges with an employee. And

Anil Awasti:

they're not sure how to approach that employee because the

Anil Awasti:

employee is confrontational. And her home country had worked in

Anil Awasti:

HR, so they're a bit afraid of her as well. And they, they

Anil Awasti:

don't know what they can say or they did not know what they can

Anil Awasti:

say. You know how to deal with this. But the colleagues were

Anil Awasti:

complaining as well of this this employee. Okay, about 70 80% of

Anil Awasti:

the colleagues complained. There's a complaint in that

Anil Awasti:

department about that one person, the one person just

Anil Awasti:

doesn't see itin meetings, even all the way up to the executive

Anil Awasti:

director, she commit to making changes. But then she'd refute

Anil Awasti:

everything that's being said. One on the who's saying what

Anil Awasti:

things like that. So, it was decided that coaching is not

Anil Awasti:

going anywhere, we need to put this employee, we need to up the

Anil Awasti:

ante put her on a performance improvement plan. So I worked

Anil Awasti:

with the direct supervisor and the supervisors manager as well.

Anil Awasti:

So the head of the department on how to conduct this meeting, and

Anil Awasti:

they had a lot of anxiety around. Key sessions all over

Anil Awasti:

zoom in the executive director and the deputy director were

Anil Awasti:

there as well. And so through the through these two sessions,

Anil Awasti:

it wasn't anything remarkable to be very honest, that I did or I

Anil Awasti:

taught them, it was just by facilitating a dialogue, we were

Anil Awasti:

able to take the time to plan for that meeting. I think that

Anil Awasti:

was my only contribution. Quite frankly, I didn't have the

Anil Awasti:

answers like things like, what do you what are your goals from

Anil Awasti:

this meeting? That's manager asking the supervisor, what do

Anil Awasti:

you think? Are the employees goals? What are your interests?

Anil Awasti:

What do you think are her interest? I know your position,

Anil Awasti:

what are her positions? you know, answering assertively

Anil Awasti:

politely and assertively, especially if the employee keeps

Anil Awasti:

probing, you know, asking questions that they can't

Anil Awasti:

answer. The meeting went well, the bottles meetings went well,

Anil Awasti:

and then the subsequent meeting with the employee went while I

Anil Awasti:

was not there, that was my job. But all that to say, all we did

Anil Awasti:

is we spent some time preparing, The reason that thing is so

Anil Awasti:

powerful is because it you can calculate, you know how to

Anil Awasti:

negotiate what goals are your non negotiables? And which goals

Anil Awasti:

can you negotiate upon still be very happy. If you don't go

Anil Awasti:

through those calculations, right, you might negotiate away

Anil Awasti:

the wrong things. Or you might not know you could have given

Melinda Lee:

Correct. That's huge. That's huge. Right? Yeah.

Melinda Lee:

something up and preserve the relationship, and there wouldn't

Melinda Lee:

And knowing the things that we want to negotiate that are

Melinda Lee:

negotiable, non negotiables. And that way, you're not in the

Melinda Lee:

be a difference to you. Correct?

Melinda Lee:

conversation and just standing, you know, with blank stare?

Melinda Lee:

Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. Anil, and so what, when, you

Melinda Lee:

know, we have people out there, they're listening, they might be

Melinda Lee:

thinking about their employee having these difficult

Melinda Lee:

conversations with employees are crucial, and what, how can they

Melinda Lee:

reach you? Or how can they Yeah, what can you do to help them?

Anil Awasti:

Thank you, so they can visit my website, it's been

Anil Awasti:

an incredibly I believe, you'll have some information as well.

Anil Awasti:

But velocity consulting, is my last name, AWASTI

Anil Awasti:

consulting.com. You can shoot me a message there. And also shoot

Anil Awasti:

me a message as Anil Awasthi consulting.com, feel free to

Anil Awasti:

connect with me on LinkedIn, we're putting out some good

Anil Awasti:

content, hopefully, on a weekly basis around HR, and you know,

Anil Awasti:

the evolution of HR AI, all of these things a lot to do with

Anil Awasti:

culture. So I'm happy to connect to a lot of, you know, not just

Anil Awasti:

HR, but I do some operational consulting as well. Awesome. I

Anil Awasti:

love working with people. So, you know, I work with not just

Anil Awasti:

leaders, but emerging leaders and boards of directors as well.

Anil Awasti:

So if you if you'd like to just have an exploratory call, I'm

Anil Awasti:

happy to do that as well.

Melinda Lee:

you. Anil, and what are your last, like, Key Tips

Melinda Lee:

for leaders that are out there that are struggling with having

Melinda Lee:

these types of conversations effectively?

Anil Awasti:

Yep, well, the one tip I'll share is that be kind

Anil Awasti:

to yourself. It's conflict management, effective conflict

Anil Awasti:

management is not for the faint of heart, is it is challenging.

Anil Awasti:

It takes a lot of cognitive energy, takes time to prepare,

Anil Awasti:

takes time to go through the meetings, you have to sit in

Anil Awasti:

difficult, uncomfortable situations, and they will always

Anil Awasti:

be uncomfortable. Doesn't matter how long you've been, there will

Anil Awasti:

always be uncomfortable. And then you also have to spend time

Anil Awasti:

and energy and cognitive capacity to manage the

Anil Awasti:

aftermath. So be kind to yourself, know that you have a

Anil Awasti:

lot of expertise in whatever your default style is, it might

Anil Awasti:

be avoided, it might be competition, practice that your

Anil Awasti:

whole life. And others so I really apologise when you make a

Anil Awasti:

mistake. I know right? Very long way in my classes. Opponents

Anil Awasti:

have an apology, but it's we're running out of time here but

Anil Awasti:

apologise even need BNF speed your ego at the door, you'll be fine.

Melinda Lee:

It's huge. It's huge. Awesome. Thank you. And

Melinda Lee:

Neil, thank you so much for your time, your expertise, really

Melinda Lee:

appreciate it. Reach out to Emil all of his information will be

Melinda Lee:

in the comments and the notes.

Anil Awasti:

Take care. Thank you.

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