Ever felt life took an unexpected detour, leaving you questioning faith and purpose? Dive into Lori Ann's transformative journey that challenges the predictability of life and redefines the essence of unwavering belief.

Hello and welcome to What's the Story.

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And now, without further ado, Let's meet your host and our

very special guest for today.

Hi there, I'm Anna Kettle and I'm part of the Crowd Church team

and I'm one of the regular hosts here at What's the Story podcast.

I am today joined by Lori Ann Wood, who is an award winning writer, a heart failure

survivor, and our guest for today's show.

Now, after discovering a serious heart condition almost too late, Lori Ann.

Um, now writes to encourage others to embrace deep faith questions and embrace

the divine detours in their own lives.

Lori Ann's first book, Divine Detour, The Path You Never Choose Can Lead to the

Faith You've Always Wanted, was published earlier this year by Cross River Media

and is available on Amazon to buy now.

So Lori Ann, thank you so much for coming on our podcast today.

Welcome.

Thank you, Anna.

It's great to be here.

Oh, it's fabulous to have you.

First of all, can I just say before we go any further, that that is

such an awesome title for a book.

I really like it.

It's just so inspiring.

Thank you.

Well, I probably like, probably like all books, I think we went through several

iterations, but the, yeah, the, the subtitle changed a couple times, so I

like it too, but it didn't start out to be that, so it's nice to land there.

as a, as a fellow writer, I totally understand that.

Um, but yeah, it's a powerful title and I can't wait to dive into that

stuff more and hear more about, uh, that whole idea of divine detours and

all of that in a minute in your story.

But I guess we should start from the top.

Um, start at the beginning of your story, because not all of our listeners today

might be as familiar with it as we are.

So can you start by telling us just a little bit about yourself, where you

live, what you do, where your background is, and kind of also how you first

started out in this journey of faith?

So, I am in Bentonville, Arkansas, which is really in just the

middle of the United States.

And I didn't grow up in Arkansas, but I grew up in the middle of the United

States in, on a wheat farm in Kansas.

And I have really...

I've always known about God.

When I think about my faith journey, it really began earlier

than my earliest memory, probably.

I don't remember a time when I didn't believe in God.

I grew up in church, um, I, you know, knew about God as soon as

I knew about my family, really.

And I raised my children in the church and we were active in the

leadership at church and still are.

And we taught adult classes on mission trips for 10 summers.

And there was just a lot of buy in and a lot of commitment.

And that was the basis for where I was and then something happened, um, right at the

end of coincidentally those 10 summers on that mission trip that really rattled my

faith and made me step back for a minute and do some questioning and some digging.

Yeah, so tell us a little bit more about the challenges then, tell us

like what was it that rattled your faith, what's the challenge you've had

to overcome and kind of yeah, tell us a bit more about that, what was the

sort of next stage of your journey?

Yes.

Well, this was about, it's, it's coming up on eight years ago.

I had kids at home.

I was a, my background is that I am a tax accountant.

I taught

Mm hmm.

at the university level for many many years and we were getting ready

for Thanksgiving here and it's a week where my older kids that were

in college would be coming home and I was doing everything I thought I

should be doing to get ready for that.

I just, I wasn't feeling well.

I just kind of felt sluggish and I felt fatigued, but I wasn't like,

completely, you know, laying flat out on the floor or anything like that.

I just thought, you know, I'm not myself.

And so I went to the convenient care, which is just a place you

can go for quick results or quick resolution to a common problem.

I thought I had the flu or I thought maybe I had pneumonia.

So I was really in trouble.

And, uh, I did that a couple of times that week and I never got any better

and finally I went to my family doctor and he immediately listened to my heart

with a stethoscope and he said we're going to get a chest x ray and if we're

lucky It's pneumonia and I remember being extremely caught off guard by

that because I had never been in the hospital other than for childbirth and

I just didn't have any intersection with the medical system at all.

So when he said that I'm starting to go through in my mind, you know,

I Cancer was always a concern.

But when he showed me the x ray from my heart, it was an extremely enlarged heart

and it was actually just functioning at 6% that day when I was in my doctor's

office, but I didn't know because I had no family history and I had no

risk factors for lifestyle indicators that I might have a heart problem.

And so, That was something that really shocked me, but even then

when I got that diagnosis and it was You know, the prognosis wasn't good.

I still felt like it was going to resolve itself and that I was going to get back

to my normal life because I had just always been such a healthy person and what

I didn't know was that the doctors were thinking I wouldn't leave the hospital.

I spent 14 days in intensive care that first trip And the doctors weren't

thinking I would leave the hospital, and then I did, and when I left I wore an

external defibrillator vest, it's called a life vest, and it just can deliver a

shock to your heart, like any kind of external defibrillator can do, and I wore

that around 24 hours a day, and I wore that for about 9 months, because they

kept thinking, you know, I'm not going to leave the hospital, And then they

said, okay, with the numbers that you have, you probably have about six months.

And then when I went past six months, they said, you know,

plan on no more than five years.

And that whole time, I'm thinking this is going to, you know, this is

going to be a temporary condition.

But I was flown to Cleveland Clinic, which is our top heart hospital.

And I became my doctor's most critical patient there for a year and a half.

And all that time, I just wasn't getting any better.

They were doing everything that they do for what my diagnosis was, which is

heart failure and short of a transplant, they were doing everything they could

and I just wasn't getting any better.

And so I started to question that idea that, oh, this is just going to

go away because it wasn't going away.

And I had people praying for me around the clock.

I had.

24 hour prayer chains that I still have those where those precious people were

waking up at night You know to pray for me and care packages and cards and

flowers and all the things I had that was and I had Wonderful medical care,

but nothing was happening And it started to get to be a long time, you know,

after about a year and a half, but if anything happened then I came down with

appendicitis about a year and a half after my heart failure diagnosis and no one

wanted to take my appendix out because my heart was so weak and doctors did an

echocardiogram, which is the test they do.

To determine how, how strong your heart is.

And they found that my heart was functioning at near normal.

well,

I was shocked, maybe more shocked then than I was when I first heard the

diagnosis because there it was at normal and that was a, that was a great day.

I remember feeling like I had my life back, that I had a second lease on

life and I thought I get the story, I understand what my story is, it's

this, you know, answered prayer and God's provision and divine healing.

This is a great story and I'm going to tell this story.

And then about three years ago, my heart function dropped and I

was in active heart failure again.

And that's kind of where I've been the last couple of, uh, I probably

the last six months to a year, I've had, I've taken two more dips down,

uh, as far as my heart function.

And so, you know, I'm learning to adapt to that.

It's, it's really a chronic progressive disease.

It, it, once you damage your heart muscle, there's really not anything

they can do other than support it.

They can't, the heart doesn't regenerate new tissue.

So I'm learning how to deal with that and manage the fact that it really

only goes in one direction, even though you can have some spikes up, like

I was having at that one point, um, it's really going in one direction.

And so.

So, the medical part of the story was interesting enough, but what really I

think is the story that maybe people can relate to that don't have anything

wrong with them health wise is that as I was going through this, my faith was

on a journey right along with my health.

And so that's really the big story about what was happening all those months.

sure, sure, that's, I mean that is like a really shocking diagnosis to be

confronted with, and you weren't that old really when it happened, you know,

you don't think of people kind of...

You know, at that kind of age, kind of having hearts that were like, you know,

that weak do you generally and yeah, to cut for it to kind of come out of

nowhere and you were living a normal healthy life before that is, yeah,

I can imagine how shocking that is.

And then.

Yeah, I love what you say about kind of like you sort of thought you were on a

certain sort of healing path with God and that was kind of part of the story

but it wasn't the whole thing and yeah so often it's true for all of us isn't

it that we can kind of think we know where God's taking us but actually we

don't really none of us know for sure and we can kind of Write or expect the

story to go the way we want it to go, but actually that often has nothing

to do with the way God's actually taking us and yeah, and I, I love that.

And so tell us a little bit more about kind of, yeah, what happened

next and how it, how it impacted your faith and your life and kind

of how you process some of that.

I started to, as I, as I was going through this and I kind of got to

the end of it and then I was back in heart failure, I was, you know, I was

keeping a journal just mostly for the medical side and then that turned into

a blog and I started just, when nothing medically was happening all those months,

I didn't have anything to blog about.

So I started to.

I a little bit transparent about the faith questions that I had.

And I started to realize that people were resonating with the fact that

their lives weren't going exactly like they had hoped or planned.

And they were on a detour, but it was a different detour,

but it was still a detour.

And they were having some of the same questions that I was having.

And, at first, I don't know if it's, you know, my training, or my

personality, or just where we are in society, but at first when I had these

questions, it felt like a weakness.

It felt like the value is in knowing the answers, and I'm at this, you know,

deep point in my faith where I've I've known about God my whole life, and

I've got some really basic questions.

And I was a little bit embarrassed and I was a little bit, you know, I felt like

it meant that I, I really wasn't ever a true believer, that I never got it.

And so, but what I learned in starting to explore these questions is that

questions are more like, uh, you know, Frederick Buechner says, it's

the ants in the pants of faith, is.

It's what questions and doubt is, but

Hmm.

you know, it's kind of like for me, it's kind of like having this grain

of sand in your shoe and you really can't, you can go on with that.

You can keep walking with that grain of sand in your shoe, but there's a

little bit of you that's always thinking about that grain of sand and you're

thinking, Hmm, I wish that wasn't there.

I wish I could do something about it.

And, and once you get it resolved, You can continue on and it doesn't mean you

won't get another grain of sand in your shoe on down the on down the path but

it's something that we need to address and so what I Had to really reframe I

guess in my life is that these questions that I had Were you know something that

instead of being a point of weakness?

They were actually a point of strength because I was saying I'm going to,

I'm going to ask God about these.

I'm going to get up every day and we're going to talk about them.

Because the only alternative I had was to take this fragile faith that I had built

and try to protect it and not question it.

And put it away and then when my life was back on the main road and everything

was going great, I'll get my faith back down and we'll use it again.

But what, I shouldn't have been doing that.

And once I decided, you know, God and I had too much history, I just

couldn't leave him on the shelf.

And when I said, I'm going to get you down and I'm going to wrestle with it, I'm

going to question and I'm going to dig in.

I was back in the game with God.

I was talking to him again.

Because when I put him on the shelf, that was really a silent period in

my life and in my faith life with God because I was like, I don't know what

you're doing and it doesn't make sense.

And I'm just gonna kind of turn away from it for a while.

And that was a hard time because I was really shutting him out, you

know, and I think anybody that's had teenagers or been a teenager knows that.

When you shut the parent out, when you slam that bedroom door and walk away.

That's the worst.

Just open that door and say what you have to say, but don't

just shut it and walk away.

And that's what I was doing.

I was being this angsty child that was shutting the door.

So I got it down and wrestled with it and I started having this conversation

with God and I started, He was top of mind when I would wake up in the morning

because I'd be like, oh, yeah we've, we still need to resolve this and I don't

know, the, the really cool thing that I learned and it was much later is that

I didn't so much want the answers or even need the answers, I just needed

permission to ask the questions and...

Permission to say, I don't get it.

And it doesn't make sense.

And can you still love me?

And can I still love you when this doesn't make any sense?

And so that's what I've been dealing with as I've gone through this and

through the ups and downs of my health.

But, um, you know, Really, if I were to put it in a nutshell, I'd say I

learned that the opposite of faith isn't doubt, it's not questioning, the

opposite of faith is indifference, just walking away and saying, I don't get it

and I'm not going to wrestle with it.

And so, that was a realization for me because at first it felt like

I was not being a good believer, a good Christian when I started asking.

sure.

And it, it's interesting, because I mean, like, sometimes asking questions

can seem like the worst thing, can't it?

Like, it can seem like, oh, I'm doubting of questions, my faith must

be immature, but actually, and there can be this kind of worry about opening

up that can of worms, almost, like.

What if I start asking these questions and they're too difficult and I don't

find the answers or, you know, it's, it undermines everything, but I think our

faith is so much more stretchy and bendy and pliable than we think it is, and

it's not easily breakable, and actually that, that kind of wrestling with it.

Truth is what God wants us to do.

Um, and wrestling with his word and yeah, and I love the fact that

you said that it was actually that process that drew you closer to him.

So it actually led to intimacy, not kind of.

Kind of often fear, we can feel about it pushing us away from God.

It actually drew you closer to him.

So interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I love what you said about it being pliable and, and bendy because I

think when I was, you know, I, I shied away from questions, even with my kids

when, when they would have a faith question, I'd be like, Ooh, I'm not

sure I have the right answer for that.

So I didn't entertain their questions like I should have.

And I think we can get into that position where it feels

like we have to cover for God.

Like, what if this doesn't turn out?

Like I, we want it to, and then what will they think of God?

And what will I think of God?

And so I was in this process, even with my own health about like, Ooh, when my

prayer warriors were just praying so hard and nothing was happening, I thought.

You know, I, I don't know how this is going to end and I don't know what

that's going to do to their faith and what that'll do to my faith.

And so, yeah, we don't have to cover for God, but it,

sometimes it feels like we do.

Yeah.

So true.

And I think we can feel like, like we have to get all the, we

have to get the answers to prayer.

We can be very resource orientated, can't we, about our faith.

And like, oh, if I pray, I need to get the answers to that prayer and, and

that answer has to be in the way that I expect it to be, and I ask for it.

Actually, sometimes the healing and the answers are less important

than the journey with God.

I think this is a recurring theme on What's the Story recently.

Lots of people have touched on this, but you know, sometimes that's more important

than getting the answers anyway, right?

Just that relationship with God and that intimacy.

So, so true.

And I, I always think about what my husband said something to me early on.

He said, you know, if we don't get the answer for your health situation the

way we want, All we're doing is trading what we can't keep for something we

can never lose and it made so much sense because I wanted that healing,

but you know, any healing, any physical healing is only going to be temporary.

And I think God has his sights on something so much

more permanent than that.

And he's, he's always been about seeking a relationship with us.

And he'll go to any lengths, you know, any cost to him, any cost

to us to have that relationship.

And I think that is what one of the, you know, one of the real bonuses

of having this long term health condition has shown me is that.

What I really needed and wanted was that relationship and not so much that

healing that I started out thinking that was what I really needed.

Yeah.

And I'm interested to hear as well, how have you seen God use this

challenge in your life since then?

Because you talk about that kind of faith journey that God's taken you

through, but also I know God's used this to sort of touch other people as

well through your writing, different things you've been involved in.

So can you tell us a little bit more about that?

Yes, so I mentioned that I have a background in accounting and tax and so I

had taught college classes for More than 20 years and done some other speaking in

that area and I found after I got heart failure that I can't I couldn't stand

up and lecture for hours at a time and so I, I wasn't sure what was next for

me and I had some other ideas of what I had hoped to do next but they didn't pan

out because part of it was because of my stamina and so those things, those closed

doors that I ran into ended up being this Other door opening where I was, I found

that I couldn't, I couldn't stand up, but I could sit down and type all day.

And I could be on zoom, you know, and not have to travel.

And all of these things were just.

Coming together at the same time, and that is when I realized that,

especially for me, I can get distracted by too many options.

You know, if there's too many open doors, there's too many, uh, you know, crayons

in the box, or too many opportunities out there, sometimes you just don't

do anything because you're paralyzed.

By all the possibilities and when when circumstances shut several doors for me

I was able to focus and I started writing this book the it started with the blog

that I talked about and the journaling that I talked about and it ended up being

a book that I had always hoped to write a book, but I never took the time to do

it in a safer, healthier life, and that was a door that opened up that really,

I wasn't expecting it to open up at that time, but it came at just the right

time for me, and I I'm just so thankful.

I can look back and be so thankful for doors that have closed, but sometimes it

takes a lot of time perspective to get to that, being thankful for closed doors.

Yeah, for sure.

And I know you wouldn't have chosen that path of like, ill health, um, but

it's, it's so cool to hear how you can see God's used it and how he's used

it to reset because of course of your life moving forwards from, from there.

So yeah, it's really inspiring to hear about and like, tell us a little

bit as well, where are you, where are you up to with it all today?

Because you're not like cured, are you?

You know, you alluded to this before, there isn't a cure for heart failure,

but, but how does life look now?

What are you up to, and where are things at now?

Yes, I have, one of the things, and I, You know, I think I mentioned

in the book that, um, the detour is the expected route now.

And there's a little bit of relief in that because I had been one who was

always, you know, planning what was going to be next and where I was going.

I had my GPS set and I was going to get there the easiest,

quickest, most efficient way.

And so that detour and knowing that it might not be what I want,

it might not be what I expect.

But.

God's using that, and I think he, he uses detours to deepen our faith.

Um, and so even though when we're on a detour, we feel like We're lost and

we feel like he's abandoned us on this road, but it's really just the opposite.

And so I have, uh, really leaned into, to writing.

I have, um, tried to help others who have been on a detour and

it, you know, I think I mentioned earlier that most of the people

who've, you know, reached out to me.

from my book or other things that I've written have said, I don't have anything

to do with heart failure or health, but I have experienced bankruptcy or loss of

a child or loss of a dream, a marriage.

And they feel like they're asking some basic faith questions.

And so I'm really trying to lean into being Vulnerable and letting

people know that asking questions and digging into your faith is

exactly what you should be doing.

I, you know, instead of saying, how did I get this old and I'm still asking these

questions, I think once you get that pool of life experiences, that's exactly

the time to be asking your questions.

And, and I think, you know, scripture shows us that that's okay.

that's really good, and it's, it's actually that you can see them as...

As strengths, not failures, um, you know, divine detours, as is likely that, divine

not accidental, and that even in the midst of it, even if it's things God didn't

intend for our lives, like I'm, I'm not saying God wills kind of ill health on

any of us, or that his plan is anything bad for us, but like, I'm so thankful,

certainly at this, I found this in my own life, that he uses those things.

Um, they're not wasted.

He uses them for divine good and he draws good things out of them and, um,

yeah, and sometimes those hard roads can actually be good, can't they?

Because they can, even though they're tough, they can lead you into good

places and, uh, and so yeah, I, I really love what you're sharing there.

Um, this is a really tough question.

This is always the one that guests say, oh no, that's hard.

But, um, what's, If you could distill this whole journey that you've been on, and I

know it's not finished yet, but up to this point in life and on your faith journey,

what's one thing you've learned up to now?

If you could just distill it down to like maybe one phrase or idea or one kind of

motto or something, what would that be?

Well, a couple of them come to mind, but probably, um, the main

You're allowed more than one.

okay, is, there's a couple that I'll mention.

One of them is, um, is in Hebrews 11, 13, and in that passage, it

lists a lot of faith heroes, like Abraham, and Noah, and Sarah, and.

It said they were living by faith when they died, but they

did not see the things promised.

And we like to think that our stories should make complete sense

in our lifetime, that we should see if God allows something to happen,

then before we die we should know why God allowed that to happen.

And I think the scripture says that sometimes our story overlaps.

It's past our lifetime because we're, we're part of this bigger story

that God is writing and we have this little part of it, but sometimes

we don't see the finished end of our story arc while we're alive.

And we just have to know that God's going to finish the story for good.

And even if in our lifetime, and we don't see the things promised as some of those.

Faith heroes didn't that we have to trust that he will finish it.

And so that was a comfort to me because I would, you know, I want to be able,

we all wanna be able to look back and say, I know exactly why I had to go

through that, or why I was on that detour and, and maybe we're not gonna

know so, That was, that's one of them.

And then the other one is in John 13, 7, and it's where he,

Jesus is washed, getting ready to wash the feet of the disciples.

And Jesus says, you do not realize now what I'm doing,

but later you will understand.

And it sort of goes along with the scripture in Hebrews, but it's saying.

It's gonna look confusing to you.

You're not gonna understand it right now.

And I was of the ilk that I wanted to know why things were happening.

And I wanted it to make sense.

And I wanted to be able to reason through it.

Sometimes we, we just can't, and so our job as Christians is to trust that He's

gonna finish the story the best possible way, but also while we're living in

those confusing times that He's okay with us asking the questions because He

knows we're human and He knows that we have some questions and we have concerns

and He just wants to hear from us.

So, you know, those two scriptures together tell me that we're gonna be on

these detours because God has something for each one of us that's so much more

than this predictable life that we planned for ourselves and on that life that we're

gonna be living, it's gonna be hard.

We're not gonna see the whys all the time.

And while we're on there, it's okay to ask God and to talk

to Him about that confusion.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's interesting because they almost sound like

contradictions when you talk about them, but they're not, are they?

Because it's okay to ask questions and God, you know, the Bible

makes it very clear that God's comfortable with those questions.

That there's lots of people who...

Question our faith throughout the Bible, isn't it?

You see that all the way through scriptures and maybe that's just

the way some of us are wired to, to ask those questions and that

he's okay with that and testing our faith can help build it, right?

But at the same time, there's this kind of, I sort of feel like you

overlay that with the truth that we may not get the answers this side of

heaven and that has to be okay too.

And actually there's some overarching truths.

Um, Stories that will only make sense later.

And so it's like a both hand, isn't it?

It's like holding both those truths in tension, like

Mm.

it's okay to ask, but also you need to be okay with not understanding

it all as well and just say God is bigger than some of this.

And that's kind of a tough thing, isn't it?

When you've got those questions to get to that point of peace.

I mean, I'm interested, did it take you long to kind of shift

from one point of view to another or to hold the two in tension?

Yeah, it did because I think, um, you know, you mentioned that some, some

people may just be wired differently.

My mother, I was, you know, in the home where I was raised, there

was never a question in her mind that God was real and active and

making a difference in her life.

And then.

I married a man who, you know, has really the same spiritual DNA.

He, he knows that he knows that he knows.

And I just, I'm a little bit different.

I, I question, you know, and you mentioned several people in

scripture, like, you know, we have, we see Thomas and Peter and.

Sarah, and so many people asking questions and saying, wait a minute,

you know, this, give me a minute.

And God didn't love any of those people any less.

Then the people who believe so easily and so I took great comfort when I finally

figured out that it wasn't That I was a Weaker believer or it wasn't that I was

more of a baby Christian It was that I came to faith a little bit differently

than maybe some other people And so that was a really relief to me to be able to

see that and to grasp that because you're right You know, you have this questioning

because you're wired that way, but then you have this reality in the other

hand that says, I'm, you may not know.

And so there's this need to know, and then this faith component that somehow

you have to wrestle with God enough to be able to hold both of those together.

And I, I mean, I really relate to what you're saying there, because I

think, although my journey has been different to yours, I've had some

divine detours as well, which I've talked about on this podcast previously.

Um, but I, I resonate with that a lot around that kind of coming to

a place of peace with a not knowing and not having all the answers this

side of heaven, not having all days like, but why did you do that, God?

Why didn't you answer in this way?

And, um, Yeah, in some ways I think that comes through because you talked

about how these questions and that sort of searching and wrestling with God

actually brings you into greater intimacy.

And it is that, it strikes me just as we're talking there, that

it's actually that intimacy that allows you to find, know God more.

And it's only in knowing God more that you find that peace with, but

he's, I know he's good and I know he's for me and I know he loves me.

Mm

And so I'm okay with the questions.

So it's like this full circle thing, isn't it, almost?

And it's just kind of occurred to me now as we're talking that actually

that comes out of a place, that piece comes out of a place of intimacy, which

you only find by pressing into God in a deeper way in your questioning.

Yeah, that's really good.

I, I, I love that because, you know, I think in our human

relationships, we can see that the people that we're very closest to.

We can ask questions, but at the base, we trust that they

have our best interest at heart.

And so, by getting to that deeper place with God, we can release

that need to control the outcome.

And it's not something that happens overnight, and it's something that

you just have to work on, you know, throughout your life, but You're right,

getting to that place where you can just say, I'm okay with not knowing

exactly where this road is heading.

I'm okay with not knowing all the answers to this, why this is happening.

And that only comes by keeping that communication open.

mm Yeah.

So, good.

Well, I do, you know, I could talk about this with you all day long because I think

we, uh, yeah, we have a lot of similar views on this and, um, it's, it's just

fascinating to hear your story today.

Um, but we are kind of rapidly running out time, so, um, But before we go, I do

want you just to sort of share with us, you know, tell us where people can find

you, where they can find out more, if they're interested in our conversation

today, if they want to learn more about your book, like, tell us all the things,

where can they find you, social, website.

Where do we go?

Yes, so my book is called, you mentioned it earlier, Divine Detour,

The Path You'd Never Choose Can Lead to the Faith You've Always Wanted,

and that's available on Amazon.

I also have my website, which is loriannwood.

com, and there's a books page that has a book trailer and other information

about the book, and you can even read the first chapter free to see

if it's something that is for you.

I would also, um...

Hope that people would if if you're in a place where you feel like you're

having trouble communicating with God And you can't find the words and you're

in that silent period that I talked about that I was in initially in the

process I have a Something that might help, it was something I put together

in those early times, and it's called Five Prayers and Promises When You

Can't Talk to God, and people can download that free from my website.

It's at loriannwood.

com slash hope, and I would be thrilled to share that with

anybody that could find that to be useful where they are right now.

And I also, I would love to connect with anybody on Instagram or Facebook.

You can find me at Lori Ann Wood on either one of those two

platforms, or even now, Threads at Laurieann Wood, so, all the things.

new thread.

Yeah.

Um, that sounds wonderful and so many great resources there.

So I definitely want to sort of echo that and say, guys, if, if you're interested in

this conversation, if any of that sounds useful, please do look up Laurieanne

and um, I know those will be awesome.

Um, Laurieanne, thank you so much for joining us today.

Um, it's been so great to have you here and have this conversation.

Yes, Anna, thank you.

It's great to see you and talk to you.

We have a lot in common.

We should do this again.

Bye.

Yeah, we definitely should, on or offline.

Like, let's just do it.

We don't have to do a podcast every time, but yeah, it's been really fun chatting

and, um, and just to say as well to the listeners before we go that if you didn't

catch all of those contacts, we'll also put them in the show notes afterwards.

So, um, you can find all those links in our show notes for today on www.

crowd.

church.

So all the links for Lori Ann and how to connect with her will be there as well.

So thank you again for being here.

And thanks also to all of our listeners for being here today.

Take care and we will catch you again very soon.

Have a great week, everyone.

And just like that, we have reached the end of another fascinating conversation.

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