In this episode of The Skirts Up Show, hosts Samantha and Melissa discuss their journey and their mission to normalize failure while emphasizing the importance of finding positives in every situation.

As they prepare for the final episode of Season 3, they reflect on the progress of their podcast and the ebbs and flows of life together. They also celebrate being featured in 'Shout Out Atlanta!

The highlight of the episode is their conversation with Marni, also known as 'The Wing Girl,' who has been helping men understand women better for over two decades. Marni shares her approach to helping men become more authentic and attractive without manipulation. They discuss communication differences, the struggles men face in the dating world, and the importance of self-improvement.

Marni offers insights into common issues like being ghosted, the challenges of navigating modern dating dynamics, and the importance of clear communication and self-awareness in relationships.

The episode concludes with a teaser of Samantha's upcoming feature on Marni's podcast!!

• Check out all of Marni Kinrys amazing work!!
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Hey, you.

You're tuned in to the Skirts up show with Samantha and Melissa.

Join our mission to normalize failure, but still uncover the positives at every twist and turn.

Skirts up, but keep your panties on.

What's up, Skirts Up Squad?

It's Samantha and Melissa, and this is our second to last episode of season three.

Can you believe that?

No, it's pretty crazy, actually.

Every time I keep thinking, no, we're only in season two, and then I'm like, no, this is three.

It's.

When people ask how long we've had the podcast, I go, oh, man, it's been forever.

Like, I almost go, like, it's been on for three years, but then I'm like, oh, wait, no, it's only three seasons, but, like, only a year and a half.

Like, you're like, it just feels like three years with Melissa.

Dude, we've been through, like, a whole lifetime together.

It feels like.

I think so, too.

I feel like it's a lot.

I love it.

And, like, the best way, though.

Yes.

And exactly.

Yeah.

It's been really fun seeing each other, you know, go through the ebbs and flows of life.

You know, it's not fun in the moment, but, like, I mean, right?

Like, you've seen me at super, like, not amazing times and not my best, and you've seen me at pretty good times, and you've helped me through all of it.

Yeah.

And, I mean, Ada dying was probably one of my very lowest moments, and you were a poor witness to that.

Me, like, crying every recording going into it.

That's okay.

I get it.

I do.

I do.

But here we are, and that's how, you know we're saint.

That's right.

Oh, man.

Okay, so we have a really fun guest, but there's, like, a few things that we want to say.

First off, most of y' all have noticed and have probably read the article.

We have been featured and Shout Out Atlanta.

Yes.

Yeah.

So thank you, guys.

Yes.

It was so bizarre, like, to get a random email about, hey, let's learn about you and skirts up.

And there was, like, a mishap.

That actually is a fail right there.

Not really.

Or that could be.

Yeah, you could do that.

Yeah.

So we got this, like, email request of, like, hey, share about skirts up and.

And about you and how it got started.

And so what it sounded like to me was like, oh, here's some prompts.

Answer these prompts, like, via type, and then we'll let you know if we want to move forward with an interview.

So I answered their Props sent it over.

And then before I know it, I mean, like, a few weeks later, I didn't even get, like, a confirmation, like, of even that there was going to be a publish.

And all of a sudden I just find out, like, oh, my article has been published on Shout Out Atlanta.

Because I had someone, like, marketing me, trying to sell me, like, a plaque.

And I was like.

I was like, what?

They do that to my shop?

They'll, like, call and be like, you want a plaque for being Best of Gwinnett?

And it's like.

But nobody really, like.

I don't think that's how I found out we got published.

That's how you found out.

Okay.

God, that's hilarious.

Yeah.

I had no idea.

So I thought they.

I'm glad you found out.

I know other.

Yeah.

Then I literally had to go look up Shout Out Atlanta, looked up, skirts up.

And I was like, we were published, like, three weeks ago.

What in the world?

But anywho, yes, we were published and Shout out of Atlanta.

It was really cool.

But I do feel like it was a fail on my part to not really understand what I was filling out, because I just feel like it could have been so much bigger and so much better if we, like, could have done it together.

So I'm a little bummed about that.

Fun.

But next time.

And honestly, like, you shouted me out super well.

Like, I felt like even though I didn't have a part of, like, typing and saying things or answering any of the prompts, I still feel like I was.

I was part of the article with you because you.

I don't know, you made me feel like I was part of it, and so that was pretty cool.

Well, of course you're part of it.

And your.

Your quilting, like, community is really one of our, like, loudest supporters, so it's, like, really fun.

And it's like, it's.

You know, how.

How could you not even.

Like, if you were physically involved in that interview, like, there's no way that they wouldn't have been shouted out anyways.

So it's like.

I mean, they are a big part.

The.

A crafted cottage is, like, a huge part of our platform.

Thank you.

I love all of our people that support us.

Yeah, we're pretty lucky, aren't we?

Yeah.

So that's my fail.

It was not a bad one, though.

Wait, you can't delete or fail?

Why?

Can't do it yet.

Okay, I'll tell it for the next episode.

Okay, what's my fail this time?

The fail is that we talked about what we were talking about fails and neither of us did the fails that we talked about.

That's hilarious.

Yes.

Sam was going to share a different fail and I was share one too, but then she's.

No, you're right.

Sometimes things just roll the way they roll.

And Atlanta thing was pretty.

That's a good one.

We need to share that.

Yeah, it is really cool.

Honestly, it could be a fail on my part too, just for the fact that I don't like, go out and put our name out there as much as I should.

Like, I feel like you're really good.

About joining all of these platforms and saying, hey, skirts up is, I don't know, joining another Facebook group or another community and just kind of getting our name out there.

And so we get a lot of people who reach out to us through those, which is really awesome.

And I think that's probably how they found us, is you putting us out there somewhere?

I guess.

That's awesome.

Oh, yeah.

And that's actually how our guest today that we have found us, which is really crazy because she's got a large following of her own and she has created this business from the ground up of helping men understand and be what women want.

Yeah, it was really, really cool talking to her.

She was really fun and easy to talk to and she was.

I, I'm joking and.

Or not.

I was about to say, I joke that, but it's not like a joke.

I make all the time.

So it's not like I talk about you all the time, Marnie.

But I was gonna say in my mind, I was thinking, she's doing the Lord's work.

Right, Right.

These men are so, they need help.

Yeah, they do.

Oh, my God.

I wonder if we could set her up with your ex husband.

What?

Be like, hey, can you like non conspicuously reach out to her ex husband and be like, hey, I can help you.

And then like, oh, my goodness.

For his next endeavor, he doesn't need to be.

He.

We're all on our own journeys right now.

I have a feeling he also needs to do.

What I'm trying to do is just kind of find himself and me find myself.

Right?

Yeah.

I was going to say Jesus, but not Jesus.

That's what he does not need.

But you know, anyway.

Okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

But yeah, no, yeah, maybe one day.

We can kind of like get her to talk to one of the men in our lives.

That would be interesting.

I think that that would be fun all on its own.

I'm Putting that down on, like, a side note.

Yes.

Speaking of which, though, you guys are gonna love her when you meet her today.

The conversation is just really fun, and she's just really fun to talk to.

And I am actually going to be featured on her podcast in a couple of months, I think.

If I remember correctly, I don't have my calendar up.

We don't know when it's dropping, but I know that when it drops, you'll.

You'll go on our Facebook page.

Yeah.

So we might.

Maybe when it drops.

Ooh, this is behind the scenes, guys.

Maybe when it drops, we could even use it as one of our episodes.

We can go on vacation.

Well, I mean, when I.

When we record on her platform, we will be on break, so depending on when she plans on dropping it, it could be a random drop.

Who knows?

We might just share it on ours too.

Yeah.

So it'll be fun anyway.

So.

Yeah, have fun listening to Marnie.

Take it away.

Marnie in your sultry voice.

That's right.

You did like her voice.

I did.

It was.

So today we have Marnie, the wing girl with us today.

Thank you for joining us.

Thanks for having me.

Thank you.

I appreciate it.

Absolutely.

We're really excited.

So I think, how did you two connect?

So I want to say Sam came to me and said, hey, there's this really cool person that we need on our podcast.

Oh, that's cool.

On LinkedIn.

So.

So Avi, who works with me, has been.

Here's the Secret runs my LinkedIn, so I'm not really on there, but he's been reaching out to other amazing content creators or other people that he thinks are doing wonderful things, and he connected me with Sam.

Awesome.

Yeah.

I have no idea how she found us, but I was really excited that she did.

So tell us a little bit about, like, what you do, because the wing girl, obviously, we all know what a wing girl is.

Actually, I don't know.

I actually.

Do people actually know what that is because it's more like a wingman.

Well, I would imagine it's the same thing.

Am I crazy?

No, it's totally the same thing.

So I am a win girl to hundreds and hundreds of thousands of men around the world.

I've been doing this for 21 years.

But I help men learn to understand women so they can attract, date, get, be with, sleep with, do it all with full integrity and honesty and authenticity and just be unbelievable men who don't lose themselves or their masculinity to attract the women they want.

Okay, interesting.

What?

What I always think of when.

When we're talking about the wing girl method to our friends and stuff, and is, have you ever seen how I met your mother?

And it's always, yeah, have you met Ted?

It's like the wingman.

And then Robin ended up being the wing girl.

Like, it's the perfect example.

It's literally.

So originally, when I started this business, it was me and another wing girl would go out with a guy and we would pick up women for him.

So we were like the on your side win girls.

That would help attract women, to make you start conversations with tons of other women and leave if it was going really well.

And then after about a year, it shifted into teaching men how to do this themselves.

Because at the end of the day, I started thinking, you know what?

If men need a woman to do these things, they're not really being the kind of man that we want them to be like that.

That's the ultimate.

Oh, interesting.

Not sexist as it is.

That's.

That's not what women really want.

They want a guy who can do it on their own.

So I went to giving them in person advice and guidance and the leverage because they were there with other women to introduce them to other women, to giving them the guidance and advice on how to do it all on their own, while giving them access to what's going on inside of my head.

And I've interviewed nearly 9,000 women now.

So I'm.

I'm constantly giving the information that is in our heads, in our hearts, in our wants, our desires, our secrets that we hold close to us.

I'm revealing that information to men so that they can understand us better and then move forward in their own actions better with.

Without feeling they have to manipulate us on the other side.

Did I.

Did I hear you say that you interviewed 9,000 women on thoughts and that's what you bring to the men?

Okay.

Yeah.

Okay.

Just want to make sure I heard that correct.

I want to actually circle back to that.

I do have a question.

Like, I had two thoughts.

Like, one, someone, just as it's kind of like a devil's advocate thing, might hear this and be like, well, wait, are you okay?

No.

I have two thoughts I want to.

Start with, and I want to hear these because I Trust me, it's 21 years.

I've heard.

I've heard every single.

Okay, this is perfect.

Okay.

So the first thought I have is like, I am so glad that you're revealing all of, like, the thoughts and the desires that women have, because I think that 90% of the issues that we have boils down to communication.

And, yeah, why are we gatekeeping the things that we want?

Like, I really am a huge believer in just, hey, this is what I want.

I'm gonna say it out loud so that you can understand it.

So I really wanna say thank you for that.

The other thing that kind of went into my mind as you were talking was like, well, what a.

Somebody might hear all of that and say, are we just kind of like helping the men put a front on?

How are they being authentic if they're just, like, taking what they think you want to hear?

Oh, I hear you.

I totally hear you.

And that's what we work on with them as well.

And we talk so much about authenticity and really honing and owning who you are as a man.

So for every program that I have, whether it's a live coaching program or it's a digital program that I give to men, the whole first section is about discovering who you are as a man.

Because you have to figure out who you are, what you want, what you want, and it, in order to move forward with the rest of my program, to take in the information and guidance that I'm giving to you.

So they have to figure out who they are, how they want to express themselves.

Because just because I tell a man that women want X, Y and Z doesn't mean that that man also wants the same thing.

And he may not want certain women who want those things.

So I have.

I have him become really clear on who he is first and then provide him with the tools.

Just like any tools that you would use for any skill that you're trying to learn, which is how to communicate, how to flirt, how to approach, how to get over approach anxiety.

So those are the techniques that I'm teaching to guys with the insight of what's going on inside of women's minds so that they're not as intimidated, fearful, confused, frustrated.

So I really believe that bridging the gap in communication is what brings more confidence for other people.

I agree.

And the manipulation comes from.

And trust me, people can take what I teach and use it to be a complete douchebag with.

Right?

But the men that I work with, I don't seem to draw in those kinds of men.

It's also the way that I teach the materials.

I'm not teaching them to be pickup players who run routines on women.

I'm teaching them to be authentic men who are very clear on their own wants and desires and then know the skills, skills that they need to have just as normal human beings in order to attract women to them.

That's a big deal.

Because what we were talking about is.

Okay, so you.

If we give men what it is that most women want and think and all these things, yes, they're gonna just spitball things.

But it is really important for men and women to know who you are as an individual before you start trying to attract people.

Otherwise, you're not doing any good.

So one of the things that I've noticed a lot of is attachment problems.

And I know our listeners have heard me rant on this a whole bunch, but, like, if you have an anxious attachment styled man, it doesn't sound like it would be as successful to me in matching them through this program because they already are insecure with themselves.

But it sounds like I want to.

I want to hear that, though.

I want to hear, like, more about that.

Yeah.

So when you have.

From what we've noticed, like, when you have one part of the couple that has an anxious attachment style and the other has a healthy attachment style, then the anxious attachment person.

So what I'm hearing in my brain is the man that is coming to you is probably the ones that are not secure with themselves.

So, for example, I have a male in my life where he says, oh, I'm talking to this girl and it's going great, but then she won't talk to me for two days.

And then I'm like, okay, well, have you guys talked about what kind of relationship you're looking at?

He goes, yeah, she doesn't want anything serious.

And I'm like, and you're mad that she didn't respond in two days?

And he goes, well, yeah, she either likes me or she doesn't.

And I'm like, no, sir.

You have anxious attachment style.

Like, she told you she doesn't want anything serious, and you're thinking that your worth is based off of her not responding in two days when she doesn't owe that to you.

Like, simmer down.

That's interesting that you would.

You would label it as anxious attack from the style.

I think that's just that that's just like not opening up your ears and understanding what's in.

In front of you.

I'm not sure if that has anything to do it.

Maybe you'll probably have more information on the person.

Yes.

To know that's his style completely.

But I, I like, like, even something like that.

Right.

So, like, a lot of guys either, and women as well, we don't listen to what other people we are Saying to us, like, some guys, if some woman is dating a man, and he said, I'm really looking for something casual right now, right?

And in her mind, she's like, okay, casual.

I want something more with him.

But if I'm special enough and I deserve to have men be running all over me, then he's going to switch the way that he's thinking, how can I make that happen?

And I'm not saying every woman does this, but many, many women will hear the things that they want to hear.

Many men will hear the things that.

Things that they want to hear, or they won't hear anything, and they'll just fixate on the thing that they want and they want that person to give them attention.

24 7.

So for.

For that guy.

I love that you pointed that out to him.

To.

For him to just be clear on.

She said this, okay?

Because that makes him say, oh, okay, now I can take.

Hopefully now I can take a breath.

And I have to really work on what is in within me that's making me need that attention more often.

Or mishear what she was saying to me, thinking that she's possibly saying something else.

And I will say that most likely for men and for women, there's so many mixed messages that are being sent to them about, like, women are saying this, but they don't really mean that.

Men are saying this, but they don't really mean that.

There's underlying things underneath the words that they're saying.

Oh, can you clarify that?

Give us some examples.

Well, I would.

So even I was watching.

I was rewatching Sex in the City last night, and the episode came on with where Carrie was dating that guy Berger for anybody who knows the Sex and the City series.

And he meets Miranda for the first time, and she's talking about this guy who she went on a date with.

And he's like, okay, well, he gave me a kiss on the cheek and he told me that he follow up the next day.

And he couldn't come up to my apartment.

I invited him up, but, you know, he had a big meeting early the next morning.

And Berger says to her, he's just not that into you.

And she's like, what?

But, like, I thought that meant that he was trying to be cautious and wanting to be respectful of my time.

And maybe he has intimacy issues or maybe he has attachment issues or whatever.

The.

All of these excuses that we make in our head versus really hearing what's going on.

And he goes, no, he's.

He's just not that into You.

That's what's happening.

So there's a lot of, like, things that are our female friends reinforce or our male friends reinforce or other dating coaches reinforce, like, oh, she's saying this, but she's really meaning that, or she's doing this to you and she's manipulating you.

They're, they're.

They're not always true things, but it messes with our minds and confuses us where in this situation, this woman said, I'm not looking for something serious.

Right.

And that should be taken at face value.

But because so many people don't really express what their wants and needs are, it becomes extremely confusing for people to take people at their word.

So I think also a lot of.

Because I actually think this is a perfect example hearing someone say, I'm not.

I'm just wanting to casually date right now.

You.

I think one of you had said that a second ago as an example.

It's so easy for a woman to hear that.

And it's exactly like you said a second ago.

I think a lot of times maybe the miscommunication happens because you said you would talk about people hearing what they want to hear.

Sometimes the thing was said, the person said, I want a casual relationship right now.

And so a girl who wants to be with that person might hear the right now.

And that right now was really just kind of a said to kind of soften the blow.

And I'm not saying we need to be, but sometimes I'm thinking maybe we're just trying too hard to be nice and they're catching and holding on to that one piece.

I don't know.

It's not.

My responsibility is to be as clear and honest as possible.

And if people have questions, they can ask more questions.

I agree.

I, I don't.

If I'm withholding information and I'm.

I'm making somebody be a detective and they get confused and they're trying to dissect my actions, then I don't hold them at fault if they misunderstand what it is that I'm trying to express.

But if I'm being very clear, if I say I'm really looking for something casual right now, I don't.

There's nothing else that I can do as a man or a woman, if you want to participate afterwards, that's your responsibility.

To know that I'm at.

Doesn't mean it might not change.

It can change change.

Everything can change.

Right.

I think that's a big part.

Is that hoping that, like, oh, if I stick around long Enough.

No, but that's what I'm saying.

Those are anxious attachment people that need extra help than just a.

You know, they, they need their inside work.

So, I mean, I really believe this.

I'll have to share some, like, extra information.

Well, I think everybody needs some inside work because there's something in them that does say, oh, you don't want me, or you don't want me right now there.

It does create anxiety within you.

I'm not enough right now.

I will be, but if I wasn't, nothing, you wouldn't want a casual relationship and you would want to.

So there is, there.

There's a whole bunch of stuff that, that goes on internally for people that we can't control.

It is interesting because I've been thinking about this a lot recently because on a lot of TV shows that I watch, this is coming up quite often.

So.

And actually with one of my friends yesterday, so we were having a conversation and she had been dating this guy for four months.

She is 45.

She's had her kids.

He's 43.

Has not.

Has had kids.

On their second date, she brought up.

She's like, I'm just going to be really blunt and say it.

I'm not, I'm not going to be a baby maker anymore.

It's not where I'm at.

It's not what I want.

And I, I just want to put that out there for you.

Because she's like, you're 43.

Like, you could be in your prime, and if that's what you want, you.

You do you.

I'm just know this.

Yeah.

And he said, like, if he took a lot of time to think about it and was like, no, it's not what I want.

And then four months later came back and said, you know what?

I am rethinking it.

It is, it is what I want.

And she was really mad at him.

And I was like, well, how.

How can you be mad at somebody for adjusting his thoughts and feelings once he gets into something?

It's not like I change my opinion on foods day to day.

Yeah, I think that's actually really commendable that he took the time to process and said, wait a minute.

Instead of just, how do I feel about this?

He did.

So he thought about it and said, I don't want to have children.

And I'm.

I am.

I enjoy you.

Right.

But he changed four months later, and she was so mad at him for changing, saying that he was leading her on.

And he, she.

He knew the entire time how she felt And I, I was like, I don't think that's really fair.

And I know that most women don't say that to their girlfriends.

They probably just say, yeah, you're right.

Like, fuck him.

He led you on.

Like, what a jerk for.

I don't think that that's fair to say he led you on because he's forthcoming and telling you.

My feelings are changing right now.

As we're getting deeper into this, I'm realizing, you know what?

Either maybe we don't have a strong enough connection with each other, or I'm looking for something more now.

And I do want to have children.

Something sparked it where I was at a friend's, you know, kid's birthday, and I was like, you know what?

I do want to have this one day.

I do really enjoy this woman.

But that's not going to be in our future.

So, like, it goes back to what we were talking about before.

Like, things can change.

And, yeah, and being honest when you know something is all that you can do.

It's the, it's how the other person wants to take it in.

They can label you as being a jerk and being.

And withholding information or lying to them or leading them on, but then that says more about them.

If that's how they look at that situation.

I think even more elementally that it leads back to what she had.

You had said, Marnie, about we need to know ourselves.

Because I don't think most of us do know ourselves.

And it might take four months to be like, wait a minute.

She really put this in my mind.

This is something I'm going to start thinking about more than I have in the past because.

But yeah, and I believe him that.

In that moment he was like, you know what?

I haven't been thinking about kids.

If I was going to have kids, I would have had kids by now.

But I really like you.

And right now, in this moment, I don't see the need for a child in my life.

But that can.

Even if you're in a relationship, if you're in a marriage, things alter something that you don't need when you're 20 years older, you don't need at 30 years old.

When you start a relationship, you can need it when you're 45.

I'm even having that in my own relationship.

I've been with my husband for 21 years, and I, I need to be stimulated in a certain way for my brain that I, I didn't.

I mean, I needed it back then, but it was very different.

I liked Going out, we were more social, and I.

And I need more mental stimulation at high levels right now.

And we're having a conflict because my husband is mentally drained.

So it's hard.

Give that to me.

And we're trying to figure out how to meet in the middle so that we're both getting what we want.

It's really hard.

I think that the words that things change and anything and everything can change is really important.

And that's probably one of the things that I would most wish that men understand because even when it comes to sexual preferences and stuff, like, just because we, like, this one thing, this one time, like, doesn't mean, like, oh, okay, like, we're down for that.

Like, it's my favorite.

Yeah.

Like, all the time.

Like, it doesn't mean that you weren't good at it.

Like, the next time around.

It just means things change.

Sometimes it's okay, and sometimes it's not okay.

And men have a hard time of like, well, it was okay the first three months ago.

I had a man say to me once, okay, I'm gonna get a little graphic.

So viewers, if you have kid or listeners, if you have kids in the car.

I did go down on somebody once, and I swallowed.

And the person said to me immediately after, oh, I just learned something about you.

And I was like, what?

And he's like, you like to swallow?

And I was like, I did.

I did.

You said that?

Yeah.

Yeah, exactly.

And no, no, no, not even that.

Like, it was just like.

Just because I did something doesn't mean, like, that's my preference.

Preference or my personality or my identity.

It's just a thing that happened in the moment.

And sometimes people put too much stake on.

But to be honest, without open communication, because there are certain times where I do like to swallow, and sometimes I don't.

Like, it's true.

My differences have changed too, to be honest.

It can change because of something that happens between the two of you, or it can just change because your palette has changed in some way.

Like, I.

It's so funny because I love blow jobs and I call it a lot and.

Right.

It didn't even mean anything to.

To me back then, but now I'm like, such a germaphobe.

I'm like, yes.

Realize what you're actually doing.

You're like, I don't know.

There's like a different.

The thing is, things can change.

You can't control how somebody else internalizes all you do it.

All you can do is talk about it so that you understand.

Hopefully that other person is honest with you.

And the truth is that sometimes it might be because something didn't taste very good or because I was mad at you that day, or I came out.

My nose and I said, we're not doing that again.

Exactly.

Yeah.

You're like, this didn't work out so well for me this time.

So it's like, never happening again.

I It's just things change, and it's hard to control somebody else's insecurity.

It's hard to control your own insecurity without words.

You don't really know what's happening.

And so, like, even with, with the guys that I work with, I constantly talk to them about communicating with women.

So, for example, if something happens in the bedroom, like, let's say for a lot of guys that I work with, experience tons of ED issues.

Right?

And so what I know happens from the female perspective is that they're with guys who either can't get it up or can't keep an erection or they can't ejaculate, and they go straight to, it's me.

I'm not sexy anymore.

He' disgusted by me.

Like, you go to the insecure place.

And so what I'm teaching to guys is for them to talk about it afterwards and say, hey, listen, this happens for me from time to time.

It's kind of embarrassing.

I'm working on it.

But just know that this is nothing to do with you.

This is something going on with me.

Or if it is something to do with her, then I hope that they can have that conversation as well.

That, like, you know what, what happened in the bedroom, I was kind of angry about what you said to me before, and I just could not mentally get there.

So let's talk about what happened before so that we can have a better sex life afterwards.

And, and vice versa.

For women, I would love for them to be able to speak more openly about things that are uncomfortable.

I do it with my eyes closed.

Like, I, I, I, I'm, I'm not saying it as if I'm, I'm a perfect specimen who does this all the time.

I get very uncomfortable talking to my friends, my family and my husband about things that can possibly hurt them or, or hurt me.

Right.

Oh, my gosh.

There was something you just said that made me go, ooh.

Was it about following sperm?

Is that what it was?

Yeah.

Oh, spicy.

I actually, I think I know it in her mind.

Yeah, it was actually.

Well, not that particularly that we talked about, but it.

Do you see a lot of men in what you do come to you with that problem of ed and, like, they have no problems getting off on, like, by themselves with porn, but when they're with an actual female, like, it just isn't gonna work.

Like, have you had to come times.

But most.

Most men, because you're trying.

You're trying to say, is it psychological?

I think, like, a lot of.

So there are many men who do have that.

I. I haven't really asked that question, but I do know because people have written into me about it saying that they have that specific issue, like, on their own, they can do it.

But with women, it becomes a challenge.

I'm not a doctor, by the way, so just letting you know, I'm not.

I'm not a specialist for you.

But so.

But so many men, they really have, like, legit ED issues that start to creep up on them.

So the majority of men that I have, I have worked with only talk about the issues in the bedroom and then fearful of what to do in the bedroom when that happens.

They don't.

I've never heard them talk about, like, okay, aside from the guys that write me emails about it, say it to me.

But I can ask that question.

I would be interested question.

But I will say so.

I had Susan Bradden on my podcast recently, and she talked about ED in a way that I had never really heard about ED before.

Can you tell us who.

Who Susan Bratton is?

Bradden is.

She's an intimacy expert.

She's like one of the leading women, I would say, in the intimacy space.

Okay.

And she works with men and with women, but mostly people who are in relationships with each other just to have them have unbelievable sex with each other.

So she works on communication.

She works on toys, she works on moves.

She works on ED issues.

She works on, you know, vagina issues, whatever for everybody.

And who's in the bedroom.

But she came onto my podcast and.

And I used to think it was primarily a psychological head issue.

Okay.

And she was saying, for the majority of men, and I'm going to say this incorrectly, there's, like, something in your penis veins where they start to get clogged.

Oh.

And so she was talking about using penis pumps to work out.

And again, not a doctor, so please don't listen to this without doing research on this yourself.

But they were saying, like, it's one of the.

She was saying was one of the early signs of potential, like, cardiac issues and blocked artery issues.

Oh, interesting.

Like, even you're starting to have problems peeing, for example.

Like, I don't know if you.

You guys are younger, but I have this, like, my husband goes to the bathroom and takes him, like, 30 seconds till his pee comes out.

So those are, like, starting issues, where that area is starting to have some issues, and they can be red flags.

Having problems finishing in the bedroom.

I used to think it was because I have a big vagina now because I've had a baby in some.

You thought it was you.

Yeah, but.

So that's.

That's the whole.

That's the whole thing.

That's why communication is really helpful about these things.

And so anybody, if they are having ED issues, I would say, first, go to a doctor and see what's going on.

If there's nothing that's obviously there medically, then look at the psychological aspects about what else is.

Is like harming you in some way.

That's great tips.

Yeah.

And I actually was gonna.

You made me think of something.

Okay.

So I am currently going through a divorce, but I will say this one thing, that we have a lot of communication issues.

We had a lot, so I'm just putting that out there.

But one thing that he was really good about is when we had an issue like that in the bedroom, he would say, hey, let's take a break.

There's.

It's not you, it's me.

But he would just hold me and say, hey, let's talk.

And I just felt so validated, I guess, because he still cared about me.

He still wanted me there.

Yeah.

And I thought that was a really nice way to handle it.

And I haven't really seen other men.

Hadn't really done that before.

I hadn't experienced it myself anyway.

And so just coming from.

That's something that felt really good.

No, but it's really nice because it.

Because yeah, you.

You don't get to get your nervous system going into this other place.

Right.

Like, your fight or flight mode doesn't go into.

Into right here.

Whatever it is, you're not going down this path of potential negativity.

And as confident as you are, if you don't have all the information and you're too afraid to ask for the information, it can set.

It can send you to very negative spaces.

So I'm.

I'm glad that he.

He did that for you.

That's great.

Me too, actually.

What do you feel like men come to you?

What's the biggest complaint that men have when they come to you about women?

Yeah.

Like, what do we not know about them?

Ghosted.

They just disappear.

They don't understand why they can have a great date, and they.

The women don't want to see them again afterwards.

So, like, what happened?

We were laughing.

We were connecting, but she has that says there's no spark, and she doesn't want to see me again.

I go to my husband.

You did well, obviously was an unsuccessful ghost because you're married to him for four years.

Really?

It's so funny.

You're the second person that said that.

So my other.

Our other friend is getting married now, and she said with her fiance, she's like.

He kept reaching out to her, and he.

She just would not write back to him.

She just wasn't ready for it.

She's also a lesbian for a short period of time, so that's why she wasn't into it at that time.

Like, but she just, like, wouldn't write back to him, and she knew that he was interested in her.

And they'd see each other at work, and they would talk.

He would contact her, and she.

He would just.

She would just ignore all of his advances.

And then one day, she's like, okay, now I'm ready.

I'll open that door for you.

And then.

Yeah.

And he was still there for it.

Yeah.

And I was like, why'd you stick around?

But it worked out well because I think he just knew.

He just knew.

I mean, and then she did not know.

So I think it just became.

That being said, you ghosted him, but not for four years.

You reconnected after four years, right?

Did he keep trying to contact you through that?

Oh, no, no.

I ghosted him.

And then I tried contacting him one time after I ghosted him just to tell him happy birthday on one of his birthdays, and he did not respond to me.

And then, you know, after the four years, he had reached out to me to see if I could rent his house from him because he knew that me and my best friend were about to live together and needed a place to live.

And then we just didn't stop talking.

It was meant to be.

Time was right for it, obviously.

Yeah.

And that's the biggest takeaway.

And so I. I feel like probably for a lot of women, I don't.

You should probably think about this if you've ghosted someone.

But for me, I ghosted him.

And the real reasons behind it.

Like, yeah, I blamed him for, like, stupid stuff like, oh, he made this comment, or I saw this in his house, and it gave me the ick.

But really, when it comes down to it, it was that I was not an adult enough mindset.

To be like, hey, I saw this in your, you know, spare bedroom, and it really kind of threw me off.

Like, is that something that you're into?

You know, and, like, asking, like, why, you know, why was that?

You weren't invested enough.

That was the whole thing.

Like, that's.

That's what happens with people that you just enter, right?

You interact with them in two times, and if they do something, you're like, oh, that's who you are.

Right.

You're not invested enough.

You don't know enough about them.

So you're just like, not for me.

When I mean the.

I don't do this.

Trust me.

I'm not, like, I'm not trying to, again, say that I'm so wonderful.

I do not do this.

I. I write people off pretty easily if I don't like the things that they say, because if they say something, I'm like, this is what you say on a regular basis.

And that's not my cup of tea.

Maybe the better thing is, is to be more open and.

And asking questions.

Like, you just said, like, oh, what did you mean by that?

Or, you know, said that and that kind of, like, it's kind of rude for you.

Yeah, I'm glad that it went this.

That you're saying that, because that's kind of something we're really trying to do, like, with this podcast, is be like, hey, you know, is like, just to understand each other more.

Yeah, it's hard.

I mean, it is.

As you get older, you've got so much stuff going on.

It's really hard to just give grace to those people who you don't really.

Know or the benefit of the doubt.

And it's like, yeah, I know.

I wish I could do that.

I don't do that, but I wish that I could do that even.

Even with, like, the people that are in my life.

Like, there's certain people who are in my life at certain levels, and they will not get to that next level because they do something that's, like, kind of icky to me every once in a while.

But I've never said anything about it because it's.

For me, I'm like, it's too far past the point.

And, like, was the point Bay.

But then have a better friendship if I just said something.

Or we could lose our friendship if I said something else.

You don't know.

Yeah, I'd like to take that on as well and start opening my mouth a bit more.

You had just said the most.

The thing that men come to you the most with is being ghosted was something else that like, they're like, that's fixable, I guess.

I guess that's fixable on the inside for everything.

So the guys that I work with, they're being ghosted because they're not putting out signs of attraction.

They're not.

Okay, okay.

They're not flirting with women.

They're going and they're having a very nice connected evening with a woman where they're being very friendly, they laugh with each other, but there's nothing like sexy about them.

They're not flirting, they're not teasing, they're not bantering, they're not challenging women.

They're agreeable.

So the guys that, that I work with are a little bit more, I don't want to say fearful because they're not fearful.

They're just like, they're just not as confident putting themselves out there in a sexual manner to women.

They're not okay with men and they have desire for women and they have attraction for women.

So they typically cover it up.

Thank you for clarifying because in my mind I'm thinking, well, how are we going to fix that?

Like if a woman's ghosted you, she's ghosted you.

But yeah, but it sounds like you're saying, no, she ghosted you for something that happened that night.

A lack of interest of.

A complete lack of interest.

You didn't hit the right hot buttons.

So what I help men with most, most is helping them become attractive and understanding how to take those barriers that they're putting in front of them, lifting them up so that women can actually be attracted to them.

What besides communication?

Because to me communication is attractive.

What are like you went on a day where a guy was only communicating with you, you'd be like, ah, maybe.

I don't know, I, maybe I'm just like missing it so much.

Maybe, maybe right now you'd be like, that's so refreshing.

Absolutely.

Maybe right now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But you're right, there's probably like a happy medium, right?

There's a total happy medium and there has to be like, I would say 40, 60, balance.

40, 60.

On what age you are.

The, the percentages change.

But like I say, especially if you're coming out of a divorce, you would want 60% connected, honest, authentic conversation where a man knows how to have a two way conversation where he's sharing about him, you're sharing about you.

He's asking good questions, you're asking good questions, you're getting a little bit deeper with him.

But then the 40% is where he gives you little teases, he flirts, he around with you, he makes good eye contact, he touches you in some way, he gets close to you, his voice changes and goes down.

Talking about it right now is making me go, oh, yeah.

But you're gonna want that.

But the thing is, you're 20 years old.

You're gonna want.

You're gonna want a different percentage.

You're gonna want like 80 fun all the time, flirty, a little bit of realness.

Maybe not too much realness, because you don't even know how to handle the realness for yourself right now, let alone somebody offers realness, unless we're 15 years older and you're trying to impress them in some way.

So there's.

It shifts a bit, but I would say on average it's about 60, 40, with 60 being like, great communication.

And that's a skill set to learn as well.

Not just throwing questions at people, but actually sharing, expanding, asking questions, being curious about the other person and allowing them to do the same thing towards you and then mixing it in and with something flirty and fun and teasy and bantery and playful.

That's like an amazing mix for a first date, for a tenth date, whatever it is, for a marriage forever.

Like, you need that.

You continuously do.

I feel like you should be an erotic author.

Have you considered that?

Good God, no.

Really?

I do want to do the voices for the.

I tried to do that.

What was it called?

Not Babel.

I forget what it was called.

There was like these, there's like this erotic audio session.

Oh, literatica.

See that?

Yes, literatica.

And then I, I.

And then they, they asked me to do.

And then I.

But I had to submit all this, like, voice work.

Like, if you don't just want my voice, then I'm not going to do it.

But if I have to, like, audition, I don't want to do it, but I would love to.

Lazy.

Lazy lady.

We kind of brushed on, actually.

No, go ahead and ask.

What do you want me to ask?

What we wanted to clarify on.

Okay, so I have a question.

Thank you.

Are you best friends or are you sisters camping?

We're friends.

Okay, so.

Okay, I did have a question last time when we had talked, you had made a comment about, like, it's really hard being a man.

I want to make sure I don't.

Did you, did you mean like right now, in this time?

Did you mean just period?

Did you mean it's hard?

I mean, right now?

I think in, in general, I think it's hard.

It is hard.

It is hard to.

It's hard to be a man.

And I have.

I have two young boys, and I'm.

I'm watching this as well, and I'm trying to not have them go down that same bat path, but I'm fearful about how.

How, you know, society is going to.

To treat them later.

It's.

It's very.

I forget what we were talking about specifically, but it is.

It's challenging to be a man in the dating space, even for reasons alone.

Like what I said to you before about that double standard where the woman was like, he's a jerk right now because he led me on.

I'm like, he didn't lead you on.

He was being honest with you in the moment when he was being honest, and he was being honest later.

As soon as he felt and thought what he was thinking, anger beating him down for it rather than rewarding him for it.

He didn't let you go for two years and, you know, and have a baby or anything anyway, so there's a whole bunch of double standards for men that I think are unfair.

A lot of the things that we expect of men, we would never expect of women.

Even.

Even the things that men tell me that women say to them on dating apps or, like, even on dates.

Like, I've had so many men basically say that women said, oh, I can't talk to you.

You're too ugly.

Still, mentally, I watched this show on YouTube because it's just addicting.

It's so stupid.

Yeah.

It's called Pop the Balloon or Find Love.

Have you guys seen that?

No.

Okay.

So it's like a group of.

A line of men.

They're.

Or women, they.

They take turns.

Each episode, they're all holding a balloon.

They bring out.

So it's a line of men, they bring out.

One woman, she tells her name and, like, starts talking about herself, what she's interested in.

If they're.

If they.

She says something triggering or if they see something they don't like, they pop their balloon, and then they're not in the lineup anymore for her to be interested in talking to them or like, you.

Right.

And so we're trying to find a.

Match at the end, right?

One balloon left, and then hopefully it's a match.

So one of the things that happens.

Like, in almost every episode, the women.

When they're lined up and a man.

Man comes out, or vice versa, either way, it doesn't matter.

I'm seeing all these women pop because the man is too short.

You would, we would flip our lids if a man pot because the one was too fat.

Yeah, 100%.

You'd be like, you can't do that.

Well, why can you call this man short and belittle, like, sorry to say belittle him, but like belittle him.

But thank you, I agree with you.

And I just did a whole video on double standards as well, where it was saying like, you know, women can say, well, I, you know, I want to date a man who's successful, who's 6ft tall and women are like, yeah, that's who you want to date.

But if a guy were to say, I'd like to have a women with like double D breasts and who did, you know, who was very slim, they'd be like, how the hell can you say that?

That is so unfair for you to say that.

And I think it's, yeah, I just think it's really hard to be a man that every, that things that women say get a pass and things that men say do not get granted.

I don't think women should be getting a pass on that either.

I wish that we could be less shallow.

Okay.

But to be the other side of this this time, if you're with a partner and they say, oh yeah, my typical attraction is girls that are, you know, six foot tall, very slim, athletic and big breasted and they're married to you and you're five foot tall and you know, curvy and you know, maybe have a big, you know, don't have big boobs.

Like that's really offensive.

Yeah, why would they say that?

But why would you say that to.

Any partner, whether it's a man either.

Way or a woman?

Yeah, I agree with you.

That's very offensive.

Or if you're saying it like, typically, I do, I am, I do date women who, or that might, might I see, for me, my interest before this is the opposite was like short Jewish guys who were slightly balding and glasses.

Like that was my thing.

Like that's what I was attracted to.

My husband happens to be 6 foot 3, half black, like gorgeous.

And he was not on my radar before.

Right.

So I've said that to him before.

But I guess because, you know, he's getting the upside of it, or at least that's how you would perceive it.

It's okay for me to say, but I, I, I still just think you have to be honest.

With tact you can say, you know, typically I went for different types of women in the past, but I'm, I'm like, so glad that I changed my view towards.

And that's even, like, that's not even coming across well.

Actually, I have to practice because there is a different way to say that in finance.

A different way?

Yeah, I think I just, I have a. I have a hard time finding there, being, like, I just think that I've seen so many negative examples in men that, like, I just.

I don't know.

Because I get it.

I hear you.

But just every example there.

There are also ones on the other side towards men.

So, yes, they're, they're, they're wrong on both sides.

They're hurtful on both sides.

They're not needed on both sides.

So I, I totally agree with you.

But I mean, to your point, it is.

You do need to be truthful.

Like, you know, I, I don't.

I actually don't think it's wrong to, like, see someone and then, you know, politely be like, you know, just not for me.

I'm not really interested in it.

I don't think because of their visual appearance.

I'm not attracted to you, but there's no way to say it.

What, what she said.

I'm not attracted to you.

I'm just not attracted to you.

Like, you, you're.

You're not my type.

You're gorgeous, but it's not what, it's not what floats my boat.

Like, and obviously you say it with more tact than that, right at the core, it's.

I'm not attracted to.

You don't have to say, oh, you're only four foot five.

I'm like, whatever that, like, or whatever it is.

But what.

I have a problem with that.

Men have these thoughts and these desires and this, like, expectation that they want in a partner.

And so this one man, I remember this, he was married to this very short girl, like, very.

Not his type, that he makes very known.

They're married.

And then every time a girl who is his type walks into the restaurant, he's all, like, drooling and googly eyes, and I'm like, dude, you're married, like, and your wife, like, would not.

Well, that's disrespectful.

He has every right, right, to be attracted to whoever he wants and to be with his wife if it's the opposite to what he wants.

But he.

Should he be drooling and rudely staring at other women while he's with his wife?

No, but when he's out by himself, he can look at whatever he wants.

Does he go home with whatever he wants?

No, but he can look at whatever he wants.

He's attracted to what he's attracted to.

Same thing for women.

There's many things that I'm attracted to.

Right.

That are not my husband.

Yeah.

Do I have to tell him every single time that somebody walks by who is my type?

No.

That's hurtful and disrespectful.

I would.

So I. I think that's very disrespectful.

Yeah.

I would say for me, that, to me is just like, it's a very disrespectful, not nice person.

What I do have a hard time with.

And sometimes.

And maybe this is where you're saying it's hard being a man, but I also think it makes it hard being a woman too, is just the societal implications.

Like, you know, you have, like, porn and you have of.

And I'm not against porn if it's.

Well, actually, I have a lot of different feelings about that.

That's a whole nother episode.

If it's used healthily.

Yeah.

And also it's hard to.

Yes.

And it's consensual.

I feel like I have the same torn views on.

Yeah.

But I guess what I was kind of thinking is, like, you have porn, you have just like, regular freaking Hollywood, like, movies.

Like, there's all these older men being cast with younger women, Things like that, that kind of say, hey, this is the standard because this is what makes money.

And it kind of reinforces some negative thinking, both men and women.

And I think that it really can kind of up just an.

Just a normal.

You and me trying to have a relationship.

What do you kind of, like, talk to men about?

Like, to kind of get around those kind of, like, stereotypes and things.

Well, give me.

Give me more context for that.

I see.

How's the stereotype harming them?

I think what I'm hearing from you is that, like, when movies portray like, and Pretty Woman, like an older.

Older male dating a really young female.

In a lot of.

That doesn't.

Yeah, in a lot.

What doesn't.

It doesn't bother me to see older men with younger women.

It doesn't bother me to see older women with younger men.

But you rarely see that depicted on tv.

And I guess I'm just kind of saying I feel like some of this kind of reinforces, like, this thinking of men and women.

Like, women.

I have to be a certain body type for the men to want me or an age or I've aged out and you're just feeling old and ugly.

Or the men thinking, like, okay, yeah, I'm just, I, I want to date a young, hot thing.

I see that a lot.

You don't.

I, I mean, I do, but I again, I sort of think that's on you.

If that's how you're letting it.

Yes.

Tell us more.

So I would say even, even with guys, like guys who sign up and work with me who are like, yeah, I'd like to.

Here are the women that I like to date, like 35, and this is a 65 year old man.

And we'll, we'll look at him and say like, if you were a 35 year old, really hot woman who was in demand right now, would you sleep with you as you are right now?

As you look, you're disheveled in front of me.

You have two teeth that are missing.

You haven't been out of your house in three months.

You don't have a good paying job.

Would you sleep with you right now?

Oh, no.

Okay, well, let's either build you up or be more real.

Like be more realistic.

Okay.

If you're a boy, you're gonna attract a 4.

If you're a 10, you're actually, it.

Goes with women too.

He can be a 10.

Any woman can be a 10 too.

Like, it's, it's a little bit different for, for women because it is more about like visually what the woman looks like for men.

But men can up their game.

Like there are, there are things, there's nothing wrong with everybody wanting something.

You're right.

Right.

And if, if that's how it impacts you, then kind of like what Sam was saying in the beginning, like, you have to sort of look towards yourself as to why that's affecting you so much and why you take that as truth.

Because you saw it on television.

Just as a closing question, can you really quickly give us the story of the best case client that you've had and the outcome?

I've had every amazing client, honestly.

We have, we have, we use Slack for our business and we have a success stories page.

And every day we'll paste an email in there or a picture of somebody with their new fiance or their new baby or their new girlfriend or their, you know, just like a little story saying how I started this program with you and seven weeks later I'm now dating a whole bunch of women who are absolutely amazing and thank you, like.

So, to be honest, I don't have a favorite case right now.

My favorite case of all time is this guy named Sharif.

But I Won't even go into that, because that's a long story.

But.

But overall, I love every man who, who signs up for any program of mine, because I say this on every one of my coaching calls, like to ask for advice, to put an effort to make changes, to own the fact that there's things that need to be worked on and to do it all while getting advice from the opposite sex, which is uncomfortable, embarrassing.

It can be so many things.

It just takes such a strong person to do that.

So I think every one of the people that work with me are just absolutely amazing.

So all.

All of them are wonderful.

No, actually hearing you say that, that makes sense.

It even makes me think that.

And I know you gotta go that.

I think my question a second ago was not.

It was misinformed.

In my mind, I was thinking, okay, so she has men coming that just help me get a date.

But that's not what they're coming to you for.

They're coming to you to help improve themselves is what I'm believing.

They think they're coming to me for getting a date.

Okay, and then.

And then we improve them.

Ah, I like that.

And we could almost do that.

That's going on for everybody.

Right.

Like, oh, everybody else has got a problem, but I just can't seem to get.

Get this.

Okay, well, let's, like, look at a mirror and see what's going on.

What am I missing?

Yeah.

What are you saying?

And then what can we work on?

Or what can we do for ourselves?

Like, it's.

At the end of the day, the only thing that you have control over is you.

Yeah.

I love it.

Thank you.

And I love that you called me and said, hey, that's a you problem.

Yes.

Because you're right.

We need to look at ourselves.

So I. Yeah.

And.

But listen, there's a ton of things that are out there in the media, right.

That you're being programmed to see things a certain way.

I. I understand that.

But at the core, it kind of.

At least me, I always.

I always know that there's something different or there's something that I want to be seeing instead.

And you gotta stick with that feeling rather than giving into the fact that that's the right thing that I'm saying I'm seeing.

Yeah, I know it's hard to do that when you're younger, but.

But, yeah, that's how I think you have to look at things.

It's like, I. I'm gonna do what's right for me.

So let's go look for more examples that are more in my wheelhouse.

I love that.

Yeah.

Well, thank you so much for joining us.

I am excited to join you on your podcast, Women Advice.

We have a good topic to talk about.

Yes.

We're gonna talk about trauma, dating women with trauma.

So I'm very excited.

I'm so sorry to race off.

Nope.

Thank you.

You're good.

Nope.

All right, thank you so much, Marnie.

Bye.

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Sam.