In this episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction, Tammy Vincent sits down with trauma-informed therapist Scott Stolarick to explore the true complexity of trauma—and how it impacts both victims and those who cause harm.

With over 30 years of clinical experience, Scott brings a rare and powerful perspective, having worked on both sides of trauma in the correctional system and private practice. Together, Tammy and Scott unpack how trauma is not defined by the event itself, but by how it is experienced and processed—and how unresolved trauma can quietly shape behaviors, relationships, and patterns throughout life.

Scott shares a powerful analogy of trauma as a small crack in a windshield that spreads over time if left untreated, illustrating how trauma can expand into multiple areas of life if not addressed.

This conversation also dives into the role of shame, denial, and support systems in healing, and why being seen, heard, and validated is often the first step toward recovery. Most importantly, Scott emphasizes that trauma does not define you—it is only one piece of your story.

🔑 KEY TAKEAWAYS

• Trauma is defined by your experience—not the event itself

• Unresolved trauma expands and impacts multiple areas of life

• Healing requires safe spaces, validation, and willingness

• Shame and denial are major barriers to recovery

• Your past influences your present—but does not define your future

• True healing comes from integrating, not avoiding, your experiences

• You are more than what happened to you

⏱ CHAPTERS / TIMESTAMPS

00:00 Introduction to Scott Stolarick

01:15 How Scott got into trauma work

03:30 Understanding trauma from both sides

11:15 What trauma actually is

15:50 The “windshield crack” analogy

19:00 How trauma spreads if untreated

22:00 Shame, disclosure, and healing

25:00 Trauma, patterns, and perception

31:10 Final message: Your life is a mosaic

🔗 CONNECT WITH SCOTT STOLARICK

Website: http://www.mosaicpathwaycounseling.org

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scott-stolarick-lcpc-cctp-298734252/

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Good morning everybody and welcome back to another episode of Adult Child of Dysfunction.

Today we have with us Scott Stalarik, LCPCCCTP.

I love all those acronyms, but we'll let him explain all that.

He is the sole owner and practitioner at Mosaic Pathway counseling in Gurney, Illinois.

Scott has over 30 years of experience across numerous clinical populations including primary area of emphasis is his trauma work as Scott is level one and two, trained in EMDR and is a certified trauma informed practitioner.

Welcome Scott.

Thank you for having me.

Yes, I love it.

And I love the fact that.

Well, first of all, I love the fact that you talk about emdr because we will touch on that today.

Because I actually did an episode with someone yesterday and they made the comment at some point during the episode and said, oh yeah, those triggers, like they never go away, you have them forever.

And I was thinking, oh, ow, ow, ow.

I'll have to do a follow up to that one, you know what I mean?

Because you can.

And EMDR is what a lot of people use.

I know with PTSD and some of the, some of the more invasive traumas that kind of won't go away per se.

So tell us how you got into trauma work.

It's, it's interesting.

I started out my career in working in corrections in our local jail as a, an inmate counselor.

And shortly after that I got my first full time job in the profession working with the court systems, evaluating and treating sex offenders.

Did that for 26 years, probably a bit too long, and really started to learn about trauma from kind of a 360 degree perspective.

Both those who create trauma and cause trauma as well as those who are recipients of it and the impact of trauma on various individuals and how it can, how it can manifest in different ways.

So that was sort of my, my baptism into trauma work and complex presenting clinical issues, engaging difficult clientele and just learning to view the person for the whole picture, as hard as that may be sometimes.

And that was after 26 years of the forensic or court involved work.

I really wanted to have more exposure to people who actually wanted to come to therapy.

They were not court ordered to be there and, and they were willing to talk about, you know, trauma and just personal experiences and were interested in resolution or reduction of trauma.

Yeah, and that's very important because you can't help somebody that doesn't want to be helped.

It's the same thing when I work with, you know, people that are in addiction and you just can't, you know, talking them into, you want a better life, you want you just don't, you have to, they have to be at a point where the pain of what they're going through is worse than the pain of what they think it's going to be to try to heal.

And.

Yeah, and that's the same thing with trauma.

And I love that you kind of flip because at some point, I mean, a lot of people get into counseling and get into therapy and become therapists because they went through the trauma themselves.

So it's very easy for them to say, oh, I get why they did the things they do.

I mean, it's very, it's, I can do it, I can look and I can.

As someone who had two alcoholic parents and turned to drinking myself to numb all the pain, I totally get it.

Sure.

You know, but I love that because you have to have a much more compassionate and more empathetic and you have to be able to put yourself in their shoes.

And it seems like after working with all these people and you going, there can't be, I mean, like, what was your thinking behind this?

Like that.

What started the 360?

Well, it, it, you know, back in the late late 80s, early 90s, it was, you know, coming, coming out of graduate school, you heard a lot of, hey, you look like a good candidate, but we really need someone with experience.

We really need someone with more experience in the profession and, and you know, like all new folks to the job market.

I was asking myself, well, how can I get this experience if nobody will give me a chance?

And so here in Lake County, Illinois in the early 90s was just when practitioners started to say, hey, we're noticing that most of these individuals who get convicted of sex crimes don't really do time, you know, in an incarcerated setting.

So what the heck do we do with them?

What do we, what do we do?

So a lot of training started here, but needless to say, not a lot of enthusiastic folks signing up to say, oh, please let me work with sex offenders, you know, so there weren't, there weren't a lot of willing candidates.

I thought.

The court ordered work was always working with systems I thought was very interesting.

It was always a fascination of mine.

So I interviewed and signed on the dotted line, so to speak.

And that's how I, you know, got my, my feet wet pretty quickly.

Learning about not only the system here as we have it structured, but how different cases are, are treated, different dynamics, different politics, and really having to work hard to engage people in the process, because these are individuals who did not want to be a part of this, most of them were in full denial of what they did.

Treating denial was very controversial.

Then, you know, I think there was a wave of thinking that said, well, if someone's in denial, they cannot be treated, will not be treated.

And then denial was sort of viewed sort of as a pre treatment phase for people.

So a lot of evolution in that work.

And as I went through it, I just, you know, would hear people's stories and learn a tremendous amount about their journey to whatever destination it was they, they were at.

So really triggered my interest in trauma work early.

And as I spent more and more years doing that work, I realized that I professionally and personally would probably feel more gratified working more, I guess, so to speak with the other side of this.

I think I waited too long.

But sometimes you just get stuck, you know, in a rut and feel like, well, this is my, you know, this is my specialty, my area of expertise.

I probably need to stay here.

There aren't enough people doing this work.

You know, all the things you, you kind of tell yourself to not move on.

And of course my own fears, you know, my lack of confidence to, to, to, to branch out and, and do other things.

But ultimately, I'm very glad that I did it.

Yeah.

And not only that, but, I mean, I want to give you kudos, first of all, for doing something that was probably very frustrating.

I can only imagine working with people that didn't want to be helped.

But I want to stick something in there too, for you.

And you have no idea how many people you probably helped that you don't know.

I mean, those people, a lot of those people I know, I mean, I know that fact of denial, and I know it's.

Again, I keep going back to addiction because that was kind of my specialty.

But you probably said a thousand things to those people and then they didn't come out and tell you that.

But they had to have gone home and self reflected or gone back to jail and self reflected, because sometimes, you know, I mean, you hear it and you don't want to hear it, but if you hear it enough, it starts to sink in with people.

So, I mean, in my mind, I'm thinking of all those people that didn't want to be helped, but how many people that I've had come to me and been like, hey, I heard something on your podcast.

I've probably heard this 50 times and for some reason it stuck today.

Yeah.

So I appreciate that and I certainly hope that was the case.

You know, you, you do have.

I don't want to say it was all negative.

You certainly do have success stories.

But, you know, it's.

There's no, there's no accurate way of gauging recidivism unless there's re.

Offense.

Right.

So it's hard to really, you know, track people in a longitudinal way unless they completely, you know, volunteer for it, which you don't see very frequently.

So you, you just hope it sticks.

You really do.

Right.

And you're still doing the work now, but now it's pretty much, I mean, that's one of the first things they're going to do is if, you know, you're some kind of sex offense, you're set up for a program, you're set up for treatment, you're set up.

And I guess that's the way.

Same way it was now.

But I feel like now it's.

They especially having someone like you, they send you to a place, or I hope they do, where people are coming at it and saying, let's start.

I mean, I see it on Law and Order.

I see, you know, where people literally, it's like the reverse psychology, you know, people are coming at it saying, it's, you're not your fault what you did.

It's because we know what your dad did to you.

And let's start there.

And that's the trauma.

That's the, the, you know, figuring out like, why, why did they do this?

And do they go.

I mean, I'm assuming it goes deeper into that now.

Now that we know that your childhood has so much to do with what happens when you become an adult.

It.

It does.

You know, you and I, and I, I certainly don't want to come close to sounding like at all like a sex offender apologist.

There's no way I would ever do that.

What I do want to say is you start to understand the full picture.

Now granted, there are some outlier cases where you really sit and scratch your head and say, I have no idea what really led this person down this path.

This is a very odd situation.

But most of the time when you peel the onion and you start to get someone engaged in the process, you, you learn about their, their history.

And oftentimes it's tumultuous and there's abuse of different kinds back in that history.

And eventually to me, what I started to notice is our area really embraced the work and started to throw a lot of resources at it, which was good.

But what I was noticing is the people who were victimized were not getting treatment.

You know, the part of the restitution for the offenders was to pay for any therapy that the victims pursued.

But oftentimes they weren't made accountable to do that because there was either no treatment or the, the, the person did not inform the court that they were going and seeking reimbursement.

So it was just a whole.

In that system that still still exists today.

Right.

And I get, I guess then I'm looking at it kind of like, obviously if there's a sex offender, then there's a victim.

And I guess in the trauma informed lens, the sex offender could have started as a victim, which turned into is.

I guess that's what I'm looking at.

And I'm not condoning, believe me, I'm not condoning any of that or saying, you know, there's a, oh, this is a free pass because it just was.

But it seems like, I mean, I don't know, I don't know.

I didn't work with a bunch of sex offenders.

So I didn't say what made you do this?

Like, what the heck were you thinking?

You know, I didn't get to say those things, so I don't know those answers.

But again, I look at patterns in general.

I mean, we are creatures of habit.

We are creatures of patterns.

Absolutely.

And you're so right with that, that, you know, if we, if we think that our historical path doesn't inform our present, you know, we're missing something.

And you know, when you can disarm somebody and really get to, you know, where they, where they went off the track and often very early, you know, it's, it's, it's an opportunity for some very rich work.

Yeah.

You know, somebody who was, perhaps knew that they were, that they were gay at a very early age, but because of certain messages they were given, felt like they couldn't pursue that with another person of age, therefore had to sort of seek out younger people and in the, in the idea that it would be more easy to conceal, you know, so there, those were some distorted kind of, you know, webs that you would encounter.

And even after learning all that, they would be committed to not living an open lifestyle.

So an open, becoming, becoming out with, with who they were.

So very complex stuff.

But, you know, trauma, Trauma rich.

That's for sure.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I want to ask you about your Huffington Post, the article that you wrote about the complexity of trauma.

But before I do that, I want you to give me your simplest explanation of what do you think trauma is?

Like, what do you think trauma means in, in the mind, like to People.

When people say, oh, I suffered trauma, what does that mean to you?

Well, could mean first and foremost, absolutely anything.

One's interpretation of an experience is just that one's interpretation.

So I want to honor that and want to first come to a place where I work to understand through them what their life experience was that defined that as trauma for them.

But in general, if someone asks me, what is trauma, how would you explain it?

That article that you referenced is my.

One of my attempts to do that.

I'll say to someone, well, we all know the experience of driving on the road and having that pesky pebble kick up off the road and hit your windshield and cause a divot, you know, and you see that little divot in the window, you can't get it out.

It's there.

And I will say, okay, that's maybe the point of victimization.

That's the traumatic event.

And if that divot doesn't get sealed or treated or it tends to spider web out, you know, or at least in the old days with the old windows, it did.

Still does.

Still does.

So I kind of explain untreated trauma as that, that it kind of takes on different arteries and different angles of its own and becomes like a spider web with various connections and avenues, which then creates the complexity of it.

And most people, most people seem to resonate with that.

And that's a great way to explain it.

And it also kind of.

I mean, it's.

I love the analogy and I love the picturing of it because it just.

Now it's reaching out to every area.

Like even just picturing the windshield, you know, it was only affecting this one little spot, but now it's affecting everything.

It's affecting your view and stuff.

I know because people have always asked me, they're like, oh, you're trauma informed, so what does that mean to you?

And I'm like, listen, there's.

There's big T, little T, middle tree.

There's all these different kinds of traumas.

But ultimately, if your perception of what you happened in your experience changed the way you look at yourself or the world, yes, it was trauma.

It changed your truth in your mind at that moment.

And it gets buried.

And like you said, if you don't fix it, I mean, traumatic things happen all the time.

People get in car accidents, all this stuff happens.

You know, these schools, school shootings, if kids can come home and say, mom, that scared me, and mom can hug her and say, let's talk about it.

Totally different story than if a kid comes home and says, mom, someone got shot at school today and mom says suck it up.

Be glad it wasn't you.

Two totally different situations.

Great, great point.

And another thing that I do say, when people are wanting some education on trauma is a big part of recovery for someone is how they're responded to.

If they're take the risk and the, and, and the courage to disclose it.

Yeah.

You know, if they're treated with care and with nourishment and attention, that really, that really sets the stage for healing.

If someone doesn't believe them and dismisses them, they go back underground and feel like maybe it was their fault or maybe it didn't happen or, you know, all the things that you hear about are, are true.

So I think having a support system that's conducive to disclosure is essential versus and even truthfully, even when you have that, there's no guarantee of disclosure.

That, that's how, that's how shame based, at least sexual abuse in particular tends to be.

It's a unique form of abuse that really carries with it guilt and shame, perhaps unlike other forms of victimization.

Yeah.

And that's also why I enjoy, I like having you on here on this adult childhood dysfunction because we talk a lot about addiction and they're same thing.

People when they're not in their right minds, do things that they would never do.

But there is, with addiction and blackouts, there is so much shame and so much guilt and so much stigma.

Yes.

You know, that people, it's hard, you know, it's hard, it's really hard to stand up there and say this is what I did or.

But you know, I like to just try to make the message that, you know, you can't go back, you can't take it back, you can't, you can't undo the past.

Right.

But you can heal, you can become a better person and you can make it right going forward.

Forward.

So.

But you have to want to.

Right, Right.

Absolutely, absolutely.

So, so that's the important thing.

And, and I think the word that I use is integrated.

You don't want to cut yourself off from the experience.

You want to integrate it.

You, you want to be able to say, hey, this is part of what happened.

I want to honor the fact that it was there and that it existed, but also want to give myself permission to effectively and adaptively leave it there in the past and move on versus sublimate it or treat it through the use of substances, chemicals or other forms of acting out behavior.

Yeah, yeah.

And never.

Yeah, exactly.

It's Never going to go away.

You have to, you have to acknowledge it, you have to come to terms with it.

But yes, you don't have to.

And it doesn't have to run the rest of your life either.

Like you, you can let go of that, of that part of it, as far as it being your pattern or being your habits.

So.

Well, I, I love that.

Yeah.

The, the whole concept of trauma in general is just so, like you said, it's just so complex and there's, there's no one instance.

You know, I always use the example.

I had a client who had this really un, unwavering belief that her mother just really didn't love her for no reason.

Like for, for apparently no reason.

Right.

So, because she's like, I had a great house, my parents always fed me, I was loved, I was told I was loved, blah, blah, blah.

And so we went back, like, went way back.

And she was 40 something at the time.

And she finally, we came up with a memory.

Six years old.

Her mom had gotten a new job and was three days late to pick her up from work or from school.

And she waited by the bus stop.

And her best friend at a sleepover in front of 15 other kids said, your mom must not love you.

She didn't come to pick you up on time.

For sure.

That dug in her.

And I, I use it as an example all the time because that had just as much of a, it had a 40 year lasting effect on her.

Same as my mom telling me every day she hated me.

Yes.

I mean, what you would think to me was this big T, like traumatic thing for a kid to her with one sentence, one day.

Yes.

Yeah.

And, and that speaks very much to the complexity of it.

You know, two people, I use an example of two people could be in a vehicle traveling down a, a road with just a light dusting of snow and the car spins out of control a little bit and the driver regains control and starts driving again.

One of the people in the car could be absolutely devastated by that.

The other person could say, that was fun, let's do it again, you know, so, you know, it's just very, very unique to the person who's the recipient of it.

Yes.

And that's why I preach all the time when things happen, look at them as, I mean, try to find the good in what happened.

Like, try to find, you know, your body doesn't know the difference between this physiological, you know, feeling of excitement or fear.

It's the same feeling.

So like you said, when you're on A roller coaster instead of holy crap, this is scary, this is exciting.

It's because your body's going to feel the same thing.

So it's how you.

And if you have to spin it.

And it takes a lot of practice because especially when you went through trauma, you are wired to look for negative and to look for scary.

You're wired that way.

That's true.

That's true.

Your network is, is set up a certain way to anticipate that.

Yes.

So what is.

Oh, go ahead.

Well, in the sad thing is there are people out there who are very attuned to looking for that.

Yeah.

And those, those people have ill intent a lot of time.

So.

Yep.

Yeah, no, I can see that.

And absolutely.

So what are your.

I mean, you work one on one with everybody.

Do you do groups or how do you work one on one?

But right now I do individual couples, some family work, but the group part is, is not part of my, my, my process.

Not for lack of trying.

It's just hard to get voluntary groups together.

So, so I'm not doing that at present.

I'm certainly open to it.

Okay, but your one on one is mostly trauma avenues, I guess you could say.

People that have been through trauma.

It largely is whether, whether it presents as such or not, it tends to be very rich with that.

And when there's resolution in it, the, the rest of the stuff tends to take care of itself.

Right.

Absolutely.

Now, another personal question, because this is kind of off the topic, but being that you sit there and you listen to people's trauma and we are all energy, we, we absorb energy, we have to deflect energy, all that.

What do you do for fun?

Well, I enjoy family time, you know, time with my wife.

I have two adult daughters.

I cherish time with them.

My two little doggies.

I have two miniature dachshunds that I adore.

I am a comic book Marvel, specifically junkie.

Although I dabble in D.C. i will say I, I, I'm a collector.

I like to collect different things.

Sports memorabilia, you know, old beer, Americana beer memorabilia, mirrors, signs, things of that nature.

So I try to get caught up in that.

Spending time with close friends, those are the things I do.

I want to get back like we all do, I'm sure to, to more regular exercise.

But for some reason that always misses the cutoff mark.

I don't know.

Not on the to do list.

Yeah, it's not as fun.

No.

I finally gave up.

I got a shaker plate, like shakes your body.

And I got a rebound.

A rebounder a trampoline.

And I'm like, okay, I can go out three times a day and bounce 100 times.

Yes, that's.

That's my.

That I would.

I would definitely do that.

Yes.

I sit by the pool and I watch the birds.

I have a big lake behind me, so sometimes it has an alligator, sometimes it has little storks.

Walk or, you know, whatever it is walking by.

So, yep, I bounce.

Yeah.

So.

Well, that's good to know, because it's good to know.

I. I literally just had a client say to me yesterday, and.

And I was like, are you kidding me?

She goes, I don't want to tell you this story because I don't want you to lay at bed and lay in bed at night and think about it.

And I was like, don't worry.

I'm good.

Don't worry.

I was just.

I just thought that was the cute.

It was the cutest thing.

And I said, don't worry.

I said, the love doesn't stop here.

I said, but the horror stories do.

Like, they stop in this room right here.

That's great.

That's a great way to put it.

We have to.

We have to.

We have to protect ourselves.

You do.

I mean, and.

And it was just so cute that she was.

But again, coming from a trauma background, somebody so worried about what other people were thinking.

I was like, how about we just take care of you and I'll worry about Tammy.

Right?

It just.

It was just so cute.

So I was just thought, well, it's like, I'll ask what you do, because, you know, you have to have fun.

Everybody has to have fun.

If you're out there listening, find the things that light you up.

Look for the good in everything.

I mean, that's.

That's about.

That's what we can do.

Do this.

Do the best we can do.

Right, Right.

Right.

So.

So people want to work with you, Scott.

Where do they find you?

Well, you could best find out about me on my.

Through my website, which is www.mosaicpathwaycounseling.org.

And you can learn about me, my business, my likes and interests, what I do.

You can learn a lot through the website.

Okay.

And I see.

Do you.

I'll put your LinkedIn link, too, if people want to reach out to you.

I know you gave me your LinkedIn link.

Do you want that in there or,.

You know, if I had that committed to memory, I would put that on.

No, I have it.

No, I have it.

I'm going to put everything.

Yeah, no, I will.

Sure.

Yes, that's fine.

For sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

No, I give everybody.

I put everything in the show notes so that people don't have to stop and write if they're driving or list doing laundry or whatever it is.

Everything will be in your show notes so that you can.

People can reach out and reach out to Scott.

I mean, he's.

He's.

He's seen both sides of it.

He's.

He's worked with the victims.

He's worked with the perpetrators or.

And at the end of the day, nobody's perfect.

So he has that compassion and that empathy to be able to help.

So I love that.

To empower, not help.

I like to say empower instead of help.

So.

So if you could give that.

Well, first of all, thank you so much for coming on.

Thank you for having me.

You're very welcome.

And if you could give the listeners one last message from you, what would it be?

Well, I made the choice to name my practice mosaic pathway counseling for a reason.

If negative, hurtful, traumatic things have happened to you, if you've experienced those in your life, those things don't define you.

They are a part of your process, a part of your mosaic.

Don't stand close to the mosaic and look at it from 1 inch or 2 inches away.

Step back and see the whole picture, because there's a lot more to you and that lot more that.

That.

That larger piece has so many positives and so many strengths, and that's what we need to connect to.

Perfectly said.

Perfectly said.

Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Yes.

And for everybody else out there listening, you heard it.

Stand way back.

Look at your big picture.

Know that you are absolutely beautiful just the way you are right here, right now.

Perfection is a myth.

But if I had to say, looking at you right now, you are absolutely perfect.

So thank you, and we will see you back next week.