How do our surgical decisions affect our relationships?

Dina & Maggie discuss the importance of relationships in connection with the scars that breast cancer leaves behind. It is ok for you and your loved ones to have tough feelings about the surgeries that you have undergone. The important thing to do is have those hard conversations and take into consideration how these decisions could affect your loved ones by looking at it from their perspective. Relationships are essential for healing, but what is more essential is the one with yourself. Having a deep, loving relationship with yourself equips you for hard conversations with others.

Listen in for powerful, vulnerable shares of how to navigate life after surgery and how it affects your relationships.

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Dina Legland is a Certified Life and Wellness Coach who uses her personal and professional experience to support clients in remission to conquer fears to achieve a life filled with joy, freedom, and inner peace. As the founder of Wellness Warriors for Life, LLC, Registered Nurse & EMT for over 30 years, Dina spent her life caring for others.

As The Inner Warrior Coach and Cancer Survivor Dina says, “Cancer Saved My Life and My Fears Almost Killed Me!”

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Maggie Judge is an energetic, passionate explorer of healing; mind, body and spirit. Her career was focused on helping teams innovate and navigate business problems with tools and support. A Breast Cancer diagnosis empowered her to tap into that previous experience and create tools that she needed to help her navigate her unpredictable, challenging journey. She founded LoveME Healing as a way to share her tools with others. Maggie says "My cancer diagnosis was devastating, but the healing journey has been transformational."

Her mission is to help others in breast cancer by sharing her experience, insights, tools and community to heal.

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mastectomy bilateral are not implants or not. It's your decision. And today, I will share more about the choices I was faced with.

Hello, everyone, welcome back to heal inside and out. We are going to talk about all things, implants today. And, Deena, I know you have quite the even set of stories I will say as it relates to implants and surgeries and decisions and all of that. So can we kick this episode off with you just sharing a bit of your personal experience as it relates to implants?

Sure. My, my story, I'm going to give the short version of the story when I was diagnosed, and I went through the first round of chemo, then four months later it it was my surgery plan and I needed a mastectomy, I chose to do a bilateral mastectomy. And out of the surgery went was my surgeon said there was a breast surgeon and there was a reconstructive breast surgeon in the operating room at the same time. So the breast surgeon did the bilateral mastectomies. The reconstructive surgeon went in and did something called tissue expanders. And that was his protocol. Some women will go to surgery, have a mastectomy or bilateral mastectomy, and they automatically put the implants in. My surgeon did not do that. She does tissue expanders first, which gets the body ready to house so to speak the implants. So once the once the tissue expanders we're in, I had to go back every week to get them filled up. So my boobs were getting pumped up, like bicycle tires. That's the job that I made it to be bicycle tire, gotta go in from my tire pumping up is what I would call it.

And can I ask you like, did you decide in advance with the guidance of your surgeon as to how full they needed to be based on previous size or new size you wanted or what? Like what well,

actually, that's that's a little bit of a joke sometimes between the patient and the surgeon is what size you want to be, I wanted to be the size I was before, which I was in between a C cup and a D cup, which was about 600 milliliters CC's nursing terms. medical terms I should say. So every week, his nurses would fill them up and till they got to the amount that they needed to be. And that took quite a few weeks. And then those tissue expanders stay there for about three to four months because it's preparing the body to stretching so that the implants can go in much easier. And they will I'm going to be very honest. And this isn't really to have our audience be afraid of this because it is protocol. But they were hard. They were like two softballs. You know, the fluid because everything was was tight. And yeah, and they were very round looking. They literally look like somebody stuck softballs underneath my skin. So like I said that stayed there for three to four months. And then you go back in for another surgery. And they take out the fluid, they take out the tissue expanders and now they put in my implants. And my implants were textured implants. They have like a, like a fuzzy feel to them. And the reason I chose them I couldn't have had, you know, smooth implants or textured implants. And the way my body shape was the doctor said the textured implants would make you look more natural. And they did. Okay, and I was fine with them. And then that was good. And then I had a couple more little I wouldn't say little surgeries. I've I've had nipples Construction. Because I, at that point, the decisions that I was making, I made them with my husband, not even with my daughters, it was between me and my husband decisions that we made, that I wanted to look like me. And I know there's women out there that go completely flat, they don't want implants, there's people who make the decision, you got to put me on the, you got to take British breast tissue out, I'm not waking up without boobs, so they put the implants in right away. So there's multiple decisions we have to make here. And everybody has the choice to make the decision that is right for them. So when I have my nipple reconstruction done, they wanted to take skin and fat from my size. And this is another part, as our audience gets to know me a little bit in my humor. I was like, oh, no, no, you're not touching my thighs. I don't want any more scars. I said, Can't take it from my lower abdomen because I lost a lot of weight. So I had some sagging skin there. So my thought process was, hey, I get new boobs, they don't sag. And I get a tummy tuck all at the same time.

I'm laughing because you're laughing. And I love that. Yeah, you can find humor in it. Right. So in a big hard decision.

I do. And that's truly got me through my, my breast cancer journey and till this day. So two years later, I'm faced with another decision about implants. And I was devastated at this. I got a letter, along with a phone call from my doctor that said, my implants were recalled. So then I started more jokes about you know, recall on your car, the recall on an appliance, you know, and I'm like, that's how I, I dealt with it. And, you know, my husband and my family and friends were like, Stop joking around about this. It's not funny. And I was like, Well, this is how I need to get through this.

Well, and I love that because that, like you, you do what you have to do to navigate those feelings, right? But if you don't mind, if I could go back when you got the letter. And you're looking at this news of what's in my body has now been recalled how, like, how did that feel?

Once again, I felt like it was like getting that phone call all over again. Because the implants could cause another type of cancer called lymphoma. And the answer from a lot of medical teams, my doctor was very supportive. He's like, you know, I wanted his true opinion. And I do this to a lot of doctors. And if you're listening to this, and you haven't heard me speak in these conversations, I am a nurse. So is doctors. Hey, I'm a nurse. So if this was your mother, this was your sister, this was your wife? What would you want for them? And that most doctors are taken aback by that. And then then they really truly think about it and answer you. So my doctor was so kind, so considerate. You know, he said the decision is mine because the issue is that they found a study that anywhere from seven to 10 years after these implants were are in, that's when they're noticing the diagnosis of lymphoma. Now I've had them I had them in for two years. And I said, No, I'm not going to wait seven years to see if I have lymphoma and have to go through a whole nother you know, plan of treatment here. So after a long conversation with my husband, Mike, my daughters and my daughter is like there is no decision, you're getting them removed. You're changing them. So then I had to go back in and get smooth implants, which was during COVID. So that's a whole nother way of dealing with things.

And I assume it's the same surgery because you're getting implants in but on top of that you're getting what you had in there removed. That's

right. And you just I just thought of something as you had said that Maggie when you are faced with a decision vision. And you have to say what's best for me. And then the fear of an of the unknown. So I was walking into this surgery without my husband being there because it's August 2020. And COVID protocol is he drops you off at the front door, he picks you up when you're dead. And the doctor said, I don't know if you're going to have any kinds of drains. I don't know what I'm going to find when I go in there. I don't know what the scar tissue is going to be like. I don't know if you know, he didn't know anything except that he was taking out the old implants and putting in new and permanent implants. And surgeon, same surgeon, I personally adore this plastic reconstructive surgeon is he is the cancer center that I go to, which is Memorial Sloan Kettering. He is their top reconstructive breast surgeon, and he only works with women that have had breast cancer. That's wonderful. You know, so coming out of that surgery, I didn't have any drains. You know, I was thankful for that. But here we are, again, you know, my life hit a brick wall again. And you know, you got to go through certain exercises because you know, it's chest surgery. And everything was going great till today where I'm faced with one more surgery, because which I didn't know either was that the way they sew implants. Not that they saw the implants in place, but they saw the skin and the tissue underneath in place. And there's kind of like a pocket on each side. Well, that pocket ripped open. And I actually felt it rip. Was it MIT,

or just like,

it wasn't or it wasn't right. It wasn't painful for me. But it was creepy because you heard like a rip. And then mica Sud because my implant wanted to move into my armpit. Okay, so they do kind of fit, they kind of put themselves in this little pocket. So they're not nice, full breasts, like I had, and I was joking around about that I got new perky boobs. Now they're sagging to the side a little bit, so to speak.

And I assume that that impacted when you were like laying on either side in your sleep, or just like leaning over on the couch or you

it was asked if you are 100% Correct. I was playing on the floor with my dog. So I was laying on my side. So I went to the right side, and I heard it happen. And then two days later, I don't know why two days later, but exactly two days later, I was playing around with the dog again. But I didn't do anything except the rollover. You know, and then the other side happened. And I am faced right now with finding somebody who will do what we call a revision surgery. And I want our listeners listeners to know that not every doctor out there will do a revision. Alright, I happen to move. I went from New York to Florida. And the few of the surgeons that I've been seeing, once said, I'm not even gonna look at you. I don't do revisions. I don't do somebody else's work. Second, second surgeon was like, wow, he did a good job. But I'm not going to do it because it wasn't my work. So I don't do revisions either.

So Dana is a revision revising a different surgeons work period

like that. Yes, people interchange that word. But certain doctors will say I will not do a revision because it wasn't my work to begin with. Because that's what it is. It's a surgical revision. You know, and right now I have a call out to my surgeon back up in New York. So I'm waiting to have that appointment with him. And now I'm faced with the decision of do I fix the pocket to where we place the implants or do I go flat. So this whole process of implants from April of 2017. Till today, I am still faced with making decisions about implants.

From that April date to today, how many total surgeries?

This one would make my fifth surgery.

And you've always said to this is obviously a very personal thing. It's different for everybody, but also that key point that we all have a choice. Right? Yeah, my question for you is, if you look back, experiencing what you've experienced, learning what you have learned, knowing what you know, once you make a different decision,

I'm going to say yes. And, you know, iron sights 2020. If I should have done this, could I've done that? What if I did that? It's that game. But what I know today, and excuse me, if I get a little emotional. What I know today is I would have went flat. Wow. Because it's, I put my body under trauma every time I have another surgery. Right? And I'm on the Anesti anesthesia, there's scar tissue, there's, you know, preparation for it, you know, it's just like, when you know, then you play that mind game of alright, I'm already up to my almost my fifth surgery, one's going to be the next one, when you know. And the issue is, is some people get their implants. And I want our listeners to know that some people get implants and they never have a problem with them. Never ever, ever have a problem with them. They can be in for 20 years or so. But it seems like with me and what my body's doing, it seems like it's every two years, year and a half to two years or so something else is is happening that I have to make another decision first another surgery.

Well in that that said, I always love your wisdom. And coming out of an experience like this, you you get a lot of wisdom and experience and learnings right? But you're also a coach in this and yes, my question to you is what what would you share with our listeners? And do you share with your clients that are facing this decision?

There's a lot of different things that I share, not only for myself, but with my clients and even people in general. Don't be afraid to make the decision for you. You don't make this decision for what my husband might say what my partner might say, what my kids think I should do. Alright, it's very personal with very vulnerable so what I what I want to share is people need to have this feeling they need to have these emotions they need to get them out and how I got a lot of these emotions out along with some of my clients who was journaling meditation I'm an Exercise person so going for a walk or being out in nature is what helped me on my thoughts down and sit with it for a while before making a decision speaking to other people whether it's younger women older women you know it doesn't matter but somebody who has gone through this they might not have gone through exactly the same but they know the journey they know the breast cancer journey so surrounding yourself with someone or some or a group that has gone through this can help as well. The bottom line is and you're probably gonna hear Maggie and I say this all the time is that the choice is ours. Not even doctors that that this can give you all the professional guidance they can but that decision is yours and yours alone.

I love that because how have you how you talked about you know talking with your spouse your partner your significant other your family but talking and and with your medical team, right? Yeah, surrounding yourself with community that has hands on experience and going inside to really explore what is it that I want and need to

do? Exactly.

So do you know what comes to mind here is that we have, there are so many other questions that I want to ask you about this because, you know, relationship and identity, like personal identity and feminine, you know, feeling feminine. And there's there's so much here, which I know we'll cover in future episodes. But I want to tell you, thank you, because I haven't got emotional when you got emotional. And I think that I'm sitting here feeling like for our listeners may or may not know this yet, but part of my story is that I I was blessed to only need a lumpectomy. I wasn't faced with the implant decision. And so I was just feeling blessed that I didn't have to go through that decision. But as we know, and we will talk about our ongoing healing, you never know. Exactly. If I was faced with that decision. Now. I feel so much more informed. And I've been through breast cancer I was so like, this has been so informative for me.

Oh, wow. That's That's what as we go through these episodes, you and I together, that is the key here is being informed. This is healing for me as well. You know, people say, oh, you know, you're in remission. You're fine, you're good. No, I'm always healing, because there's always something that might be going on. You know, and the truth of the matter is, is that it's nice to get these feelings out. That alone, and our audience isn't alone and you're not alone. We are here for each other.