OUR HOSTS: 

Corinne Foxx - @corinnefoxx

Natalie McMillan - @nataliemcm and @shopnataliemcmillan 

What we're drinking: Rose 'N' Blum Bubbly Moscato Rosé

MEET OUR GUEST: 

Dr. Ken Duckworth - @namicommunicate and nami.org 

ABOUT OUR GUEST: 

Dr. Ken Duckworth is the medical director for NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. He is board certified by the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology in child, adolescent, and adult psychiatry. He is also an assistant clinical professor at Harvard University Medical School, and has served as a board member on the American Association For Community Psychiatry. His latest project is authoring a new book called You Are Not Alone, which highlights first-person and family-lived experiences of mental health. 

TOPIC: 

As daylight dwindles and stress from the holidays starts to sink in, many people find themselves in patterns of depression. In this episode, we sit down with Dr. Ken Duckworth, the medical director for NAMI, to talk about the realities of depression and ways to be proactive about your mental health. 

In this episode, we discuss:

• What is depression from a psychiatric point of view
• The inspiration behind why Dr. Ken’s chose to become a clinical psychiatrist 
• Various treatments for combatting depression  
• Symptoms of depression that go unnoticed or unrecognized, especially in children and teens 
• Tips for dealing with Seasonal Affective Disorder
• Using Motivational Interviewing techniques to reach out to a loved one that seems depressed
• The importance of talking about your family mental health history 
• First steps to take for treating depression 

END OF THE SHOW: 

Corinne and Natalie introduce Hottie of the Week: Michael Phelps

WINE RATING:

Rose 'N' Blum Bubbly Moscato Rosé = Michael Phelps/ Michael Phelps

WRAP UP:

To wrap up the episode, Corinne and Natalie play the BFF Quiz, which is the one where they choose a number that corresponds to a random question about the other person. They reveal which board games they would be, how their relationship would’ve changed if they had met earlier, why they would be an asset on a desert island, and where they could do the most damage with one hour to spend $5,000. 

Mental Health America Screening Tool: https://screening.mhanational.org/screening-tools/

We have a brand new newsletter for our Am I community. You can sign up for the newsletter on our website: amidoingthisrightpod.com

You can email us for episode ideas or Random Advice: amidoingthisrightpod@gmail.com

Follow us on Instagram: @amidoingthisrightpod 

Don't forget to rate and review the podcast! It really helps us grow!

[00:00:04] Natalie McMillan: And I'm Natalie McMillan.

[00:00:15] Natalie McMillan: And each week we cover a new topic, and we drink a new bottle of vino.

Dr. Ken Duckworth, whom we love, we will love.

[00:00:48] Corinne Foxx: You're going to love him too. So we're going to be talking with him about the signs and symptoms of depression, how seasonal depression works, how to combat depression around the holidays and Dr. Ken's upcoming book, you are not alone.

[00:01:05] Corinne Foxx: with him. I am too, but not for us. We've got some housekeeping.

[00:01:25] Corinne Foxx: email, stay in the know with all things AMA,

They're a little

[00:01:36] Natalie McMillan: surprises. And we're not going to spam you guys. It's going to be one

[00:01:41] Natalie McMillan: It's very casual, but we would love it if you joined

[00:01:51] Natalie McMillan: newsletter, you're officially an AMA.

You're a real one. Okay. I think I should pour this little, this little bevy here. We also

[00:02:03] Natalie McMillan: champagne flutes. They're like little great Gatsby looking glasses. So this is the Rosenblum bubbly. Mascato rosé I can

It's very fragrant. I'm excited. Sorry. I was going to just sit before you. I want to take a sip. I like to sip and then like,

[00:02:27] Corinne Foxx: Um,

[00:02:29] Corinne Foxx: back or we're going to rate it at the end of the episode, but we're kind of like looking at each other's eyes, like, damn,

[00:02:46] Corinne Foxx: We'll circle back on this Rosa. At the end of episode, let's get into the topic that we're talking about, which is depression, not we're both advocates for mental health. I'm an ambassador for NAMI, which is the national Alliance on mental illness, which is where I was connected with Dr.

Ken, and then Nat. And I did an Instagram live with him for. The mental health coalition, uh, which is run through Kenneth Cole, but we're also both people who have suffered from depression and we know firsthand how debilitating it can be and how hard it can be to overcome. And so we think it's really important for everyone to understand what depression truly is and how you can spot the signs and symptoms if you or someone else.

And when you love is suffering from it and depression, isn't just, you know, feeling sad. Takes many forms. It manifests in a lot of different ways. And I think Dr. Kent has a lot of the, the, the clinical T yes.

Dr. Ken duck Duckworth. He serves as the medical director for nine. Like we said the national Alliance on mental illness. He is board certified by the American board of psychiatry and neurology in adult, child, and adolescent psychiatry. He is also an assistant clinical professor at Harvard university medical school and has served as a board member.

The American association of community psychiatrist, what

[00:04:20] Natalie McMillan: You throw Harvard, you drop the H-bomb.

[00:04:24] Natalie McMillan: expert. Really my spar. He really might be. And he's coming out with a book you're not alone that is described as an authoritative yet compassionate guide to managing mental health challenges.

Oh, I'm so excited. And I think that really describes Dr. Ken he's authoritative. Compassionate for sure. Jim, you're just, I'm excited for everybody to meet him.

Hello, Dr. Duckworth, should we call you Dr. Ken or Dr. Duckworth? Because

[00:05:03] Natalie McMillan: Okay. Cause we were saying we're like, you know, we just call him Dr. Ken by habit.

We actually spoke with you before Natalie and I did, uh, the one-to-one with the mental health coalition and you, and that was such a great conversation. So when we were thinking about this episode, we were like, we have to have Dr. Ken back to talk about no, we really, I mean, you were, so you were so great.

Spoken. And obviously you are beyond, beyond, uh, uh, certified to speak on this topic.

[00:05:41] Corinne Foxx: doing. Oh, well of course, but first, I mean, we read, we just read your bio and you are, uh, I believe is it double blurred certified or triple board certified

So I'm an adult psychiatrist and the child and adolescent psychiatrist. I probably got triple boarded because I was insecure and I wanted to make sure I got, I did forensic training as well, which kind of means integrating with the courts and the legal system, but I let that lapse

Because when we spoke on our Instagram live, you had previously mentioned, uh, your father and how he was such a big inspiration to you. Yeah,

It's fantastic. But back in the day, uh, nobody talked about this and my dad was a particularly charismatic, loving, and fun person who had very bad bipolar disorder. And I pieced it all together. He probably had an episode of mania about every two or three summers and was hospitalized many times. Would get very sick and then nobody would talk about it.

So he disappeared with state hospital for three months and we built like nothing ever happened. And then he came back and it had the same quality, like, why can't we talk about it? So my family's from Philadelphia. My dad had an episode lost his job. And, uh, the company said it was shift boy or beams, a Chefwear DeSales when they said, well, Duckworth, you screwed up one time, too many.

We need a man and to try to take it or leave it. So we moved to Michigan and that's why I'm into polite driving college football and public education because I grew up in Michigan. Right. And so, but what's interesting about that is. I even as a second grade kid was trying to figure out what is the thing that is so powerful that it could move a family 400 miles.

And you still couldn't talk about it when the answer was a mental health condition. That was the answer. But because I couldn't articulate it because we couldn't talk about. He kept getting sick. And, uh, I decided to go to medical school and there are no doctors in my family before me, two of my daughters are in medical school, which does make you wonder about their judgment, but I wanted to help him.

And I also wanted to understand, like, what is this phenomenon? And, uh, you know, I would say I was able to help him. And then over time, You know, the national Alliance on mental illness found me. That's my dog encouraging my connection to Tommy in the

[00:08:34] Dr. Ken Duckworth: She's in favor of NAMI. She always gives up a little crab every time I see the word NAMI. So it's the, uh, a very. To work for an organization. That's about openness sharing your story, sharing information. So my career has turned out to be quite beautiful in that, you know, I became a doctor to help my dad.

And now I'm the chief medical officer of the largest organization in the country, you know, that's for lived experience and family members. So it's pretty special. I feel very.

[00:09:08] Corinne Foxx: to you and way to take something that could have, I mean, mental health conditions affect so many families in different ways, but it's taking something that could have been this.

And I'm sure there were hard times, but this thing that held you back, or you had a lot of resentment towards with your father and you really took that and, and took that. Difficult experience and made such positive impacts from it. And I feel like you speak of your father so highly. And I mean, I think the conversations we've had about mental health in the past has been so negative and it doesn't have to be that, you know?

Yeah.

Other things there. But I think the core thing I learned is what it's like to love somebody, how to talk to somebody, how to try to, you know, help them enjoy their strengths and the gifts they have and not just focus on their vulnerabilities. So it's been an education for me. And I could tell you about the book project a little later, but they're all kind of grows out of this experience.

And the idea that listening to people who've lived with things is a whole nother way to think about learning. So for the book I interviewed 120 people who have lived experience or their families, they use their names and they share what they've learned, whatever it is. And, uh, whether it's faith or cognitive behavior therapy, specific medication becoming a peer specialist.

Finding a community, different things, help people. And so this book is an exploration of that. It's called you are not alone. And the idea that you should be able to see yourself in this book, I have people of different backgrounds, races, ethnicities. Gender identities, outcome. Some people are doctors, some people are disabled, some people are musicians and some people like me have no musical talent at all.

And the idea is, you know, you put all these people together. What you have is America. All of these conditions impact millions of people. And I thought the idea behind the book was to show. The first person lived experience, the family lived experience. And then because of NAMI stock and everybody likes NAMI.

I have all the best researchers in America answering common questions. Yes. You know, so, um, questions that I get asked, but I'm not the smartest guy in the room, but I do know the smartest people in the room and you know, the head of the national Institute of mental health, the woman who invented the wellness recovery action plan, right.

The person who invented motivational interviewing, how do you talk to a family? Some of the leading thinkers in medication development. So, uh, that's kind of the cool project behind the book and, uh, it's been a lot of

About a year from now.

[00:12:48] Corinne Foxx: you back on when it's, when it's coming out so that we can remind all our listeners it'll be about

If everything goes.

Is it a negative thought cycle? Is it a kind of a combination of both? What do you see it as.

So this is why some psychotherapies like cognitive behavior therapy, you know, I could think, you know, doing a terrible job on this podcast interview they ever had. I can't believe I'd let that board laps and now I'm publicly humiliated and then I'm not triple worth. You can take your automatic negative thoughts and create a lot of negative feelings.

Or you could say, isn't it wonderful to see the two of them again? All right, fine. So I let that board go. I'm not perfect, but I think, you know, we're all doing the best we can. So how you think about things? So it's both a thought pattern and it's thought to have something to do with circuitry. And chemical imbalances, but you see, I don't really use the term chemical imbalance.

I think it's too complicated for that. And I think it's honest to say we truly don't know the underlying cause I think that's the most honest statement, but we do know that some medications which impact the neurochemical junction inside your neurons can be effective. We also know that neurostimulation.

Like magnetic stimulation. That's a circuitry. I

[00:15:13] Dr. Ken Duckworth: transcranial magnetic stimulation is this circuitry idea.

And again, that's another way to conceptualize it. Could it be that there's circuits in the brain that are underperforming the way your electrical system might not be giving you? The best performance, right. And like, wait a minute. I think a couple of the circuits are down. So you get down in the basement, you know, flip the circuit switches, right?

Transcranial magnetic stimulation puts you essentially in the equivalent of a dental chair. And, uh, they then, you know, take, uh, a mesh. Outside your skull and they give you a repetitive magnetic stimulation. And they do this for about 30 to 35 times over several weeks. And it's FDA food and drug administration approved for treatment resistant, depression and treatment resistant obsessive compulsive disorder, which means that an independent body said, okay, the circuitry idea has game.

And you know, people come to me and they say, should I go and do transcranial magnetic stimulation. Suppose the most benign thing you could do a second. That's the least likely to have any complications, right. Medications, if you don't want to do psychotherapy, that may help with energy. Sleep. And, uh, the feeling of feeling like you're walking in molasses, the medicines might help with that, but they may not help with your thought patterns.

That's why the combinations of medicine and psychotherapy are typically useful. Most people who get the transcranial magnetic stimulation called R T M S are always already getting medications and psychotherapy. So, and then you have to figure out how to get your insurer to pay for. Typically, they require you to have gone through a few hoops to get that makes sense.

You can get it though. I mean, I know people who've gotten it paid for through their health plan, so you just kind of have to stay with it, which is one of the hardest things to say to a person with depression, because they do not have the motivation to stay with things

I'm curious about some of the symptoms you think of depression that go unnoticed or unrecognized because people start to normalize living that way.

So I think it's five of those eight seconds. For more than two weeks, that's kind of the clinical definition of depression. And I would also observe, you know, you talked to any student nurse, a student nurse at the health center in any high school or middle school kids with belly pain, kids who are presenting with recurrent headaches.

Like that's a whole communication and things that kids can't quite articulate their experience, but they're expressing distress. Another thing with teenagers in particular is anger, irritability, grumpiness. But like real anger, real irritability and real grumpiness. And this is something you also see sometimes in adults.

So not everybody looks quite the same. Some people can be very agitated. There's a famous, uh, legal. Which I learned about in my, when I was board certified of a man who was so agitated and depressed, uh, he literally wore out a set of shoes at a hospital, walking back and forth, you know, uh, up and down the hallway.

He was so agitated. Literally he wore through his shoes, like his feet were coming out. So it's like a classic expression of something you might not think. We usually think of being slowed down. Um, you know, the feeling of walking through sand or molasses. Right. That's a common thought. So I would say the physical expression of distress, stomach aches, headaches, very common in kids, adolescents, but some adults too.

And anger, irritability are things that, you know, may not be commonly associated with it in most people's minds.

[00:19:45] Corinne Foxx: people.

For sure.

[00:19:52] Corinne Foxx: I think that's important to know. And also. Like you were saying like that two week marker is really, you know, when you're sad, that's like emotion, a feeling and that comes and goes. And, but if it's like, okay, this is a persistent thing that I'm experiencing for weeks on end.

That's not going away. That's not tied to grief or anything

I felt like that I got over it, you know? So I think it's easy to generalize from the idea that while you have felt better from set. That might be a different experience, a major depressive episode. My dog seems to have a lot of thoughts about particular activity.

You know, it's always kind of seen as this joyous time when in reality, I think a lot of people, you know, there's families situations, there's financial situations that people can kind of get very down and potentially even depressed. So how would you suggest to somebody who might be feeling that way? How to kind of navigate it, I guess, beyond kind of keeping their own tabs.

Tomorrow yourself.

Actors don't forget that. Right? Like, you know, families are complicated for a lot of us, you know, interesting. Uh, you know, I lost both my siblings in the past 10 years, the saddest time and be as, for me as November, their birthday happens to be this week and my brother always hosted Thanksgiving. And you know, so it's, you know, this is kind of a season of loss for me.

And I know that I find ways to honor my brother and sister this time of year. And I do different little rituals about that involving college football or taking certain walks or listening to certain music that they loved. You know, and again, this is a way I soothe myself with this particular loss. Every person is different.

Every situation. Is different. I think the key is to figure out what's worked for you before, right? If talking to your uncle, Bob is not helpful because he has extremely strong political opinions. You know, you might just want to say hi to Bob and then cut the other direction. Right. And that's self-care

Yes,

[00:23:06] Natalie McMillan: that's very true about my uncle. But it's very true. I do have an uncle Bob, and you're not going to change your

You're good, but we're not that good. So I think a lot of. You know, knowing yourself, thinking about what's been effective for you staying off the New Jersey turnpike whenever possible, right? You guys are on the west coast, right? Have no idea what that means. So it's the five right? Try to stay off the , you know, be mindful of how you're trying to make your connections.

You know, you can enjoy yourself, keep an eye on your own.

[00:23:47] Dr. Ken Duckworth: yourself. Every be mindful. Of the kind of environments you're going into, you know, if you're in recovery from addiction, you know, these are just things you need to kind of plan ahead. You may be able to talk about them in advance, but for a lot of people, I think it is a hard time.

The days are also shorter here in Boston, in Boston, you guys are in California. You don't even know what short days are. No, it gets dark about four 30 now after daylight savings time. Yeah. What they shot already. And so, you know, for those of us who live north. Not a problem in Los Angeles. Not a problem in Miami.

I

[00:24:49] Dr. Ken Duckworth: So they now call it major depression with seasonal effective component.

[00:24:55] Dr. Ken Duckworth: Right. So this is a subtype of major depression and the idea, and this is something you should definitely be able to notice the patterns of like, you know, yourself, like some people know about mid-November. I start to melt and by February, If I haven't gone, you know, to a Caribbean island, you know, I'm really in trouble and they go for two weeks and they get as much sunlight as they can.

And, you know, for people who can afford that and can travel, that's a great thing to do because it's giving them more light. So in addition to the stresses that you described, you know, about family, And the holidays and the mythic family that none of us belong to. None of us belong to that family with the giant ball on top of the BM dummy.

Most people don't even know each other. Right. They met that day on a set. Like I just want to emphasize that light is important for humans. And so, you know, what I say to people is try to get out during the daytime. You're gonna walk your dog. You heard my barking dog go out there in the day, get the little bit of light that there is into your brain.

Um, it doesn't really work to watch more TV and turn on a few lights. If you need light, there's certain kinds of high powered light. That worked for seasonal affective disorder. So if someone has made that diagnosis, you can get your health insurance plan to pay for those lights. So they are a special kind of light.

So it's not like turning on two more lamps that doesn't help. You know, you kind of got to go deep into the brain structures. Light cues are noted and taken in. So for people who have seasonal affective disorder, these are lights that you put on your desk. They're pretty dang bright. I'm not going to kid and you put them on in the morning and you can be drinking your coffee and reading the paper or chilling or doing ever you don't, but you're getting the light into the, into your brain.

We also know this is effective because a few people have gotten mad. From lights. So just as a few people who get antidepressants become manic. So, you know, that's another reason to believe this isn't effective. This is not just placebo. You know, it's really great to have more light. Everybody likes more light.

Right. The idea is you get more light than a few people who are bipolar can actually be flipped into mania. So just be mindful of that seasonal affective disorder can happen in people with bipolar disorder. And I look back on my dad's experience. He got sick every. So it was highlight cues

[00:27:34] Dr. Ken Duckworth: I don't think he was ever in the hospital, the wintertime in my whole life.

That

[00:27:39] Dr. Ken Duckworth: fascinating. Right. So again, a lot of this is pattern recognition, like, okay, what's the pattern of this person's vulnerability. Is there a seasonal component or not? How does light work into it? I can't say, but I'm going to say, you know, most, June 21st, the longest day of the year, my dad was in a state hospital.

And, you know, if we looked at December 21st, the shortest day of the year, like that was never in the hospital was always around for Christmas and Thanksgiving. And he loved those holidays, like he was into it. So what does that tell me? Well, he had a seasonal component, but it was a different

It was the other way around

Everybody likes to go to the beach. We have this other thing that happens in the summertime from every other year or every third year. We talk about that. Oh yeah. That thing. Yeah, we couldn't do that. And so my, our inability to communicate, you know, was so bad. I had to become a psychiatrist to understand, but so for people like yo running podcasts, having these open discussions, you're helping a lot of people.

You know, pursue other dreams, so they don't have to do what I did.

I mean, You can't help somebody who doesn't want to help themselves. I'm sure that's but is there a way or a best practice for, you know, reaching out to a loved one that seems depressed. So

And he says, when you look at them and you say, you need help, they say, no, thank you. I don't need help. He describes this process where there's like a committee inside of all of our hearts and minds. And when you push on one side of the boat, they go the other way. Right. And you shouldn't drink so much coffee.

Oh yes. I'll drink all the coffee I want. Right. So you don't come right at it. So his first that's called the so-called righting reflex. You don't lean on one side of the committee because that gets the other side of the committee more active and steady kind of come alongside the person and try to listen to what they.

Are noticing isn't working. So now you're into the Venn diagrams. So you notice you're not sleeping well. And I noticed you're probably clinically depressed. Right. So what do I focus on telling you that you're depressed? No, I focus on sleeping to sleeping is something that you see that I see what might be helpful with you with sleeping.

Would you like to go for a walk with me in the afternoon? Sometimes that tires people out. I know you're taking sleeping pills. That's usually not a good long-term strategy. Could we talk to your primary care doctor together? Sleeping could be an indication of another vulnerable. Right, right. This kind of thing is where bill Miller, you know, who invented all field called motivational interviewing.

It's a brilliant field and there's tons of people trained in this whole, it's all local communication strategy, but it doesn't start with, I think you have X person says I don't have X. I'm going to drink all the coffee I want. Yes I can. Right. So the idea is, you know, What is the vulnerability that the person's expressing, that's the purple in the Venn diagram of what they see and what you see.

And then you try to grow that a little with them. It's the strength of your relationship, not the strength of your argument.

[00:31:59] Dr. Ken Duckworth: yes. That gets results. They know you love them.

And I think that's why it's important to have these conversations and to say like, Hey. You know, we all know people, or we personally suffer from these things and just be very open and honest about how it affects us and

And if you have a mental health vulnerability in your family, this is a tremendous event. 'cause you can say, Hey, by the way, just want to let you know a, B and C are in our family. Right. And, uh, if you ever have those, we can talk about that. Like, I know a little bit about that. I saw it, you know, my family didn't always deal with it the best way.

What I think is really important to be able to talk about it and problem solve together. And remember that Lino love is the key to the family. And communication's really important. The big advantage you can, you have a natural entree, just like, you know, family has heart disease, right? And so you just weave it into the family history.

People need to know their family history

[00:33:26] Dr. Ken Duckworth: much. And a lot of families have mental health. A lot of families have addiction. A lot of families have people who've died by suicide, which is a proxy either for mental health or addiction in most cases. And the ability to talk about that convenience to the child, all of this is one of the topics that's on the table.

Oh. It might not bring it up for four and a half years, but they will remember that this is something that can be talked about. Yes,

And so she was always, she was very open about it. And so all of these things were brought up to us, uh, growing up. And how

[00:34:12] Natalie McMillan: experience. You know, I've never had a problem talking about it because it was very normal. I mean, obviously suicide's not normalized, but the conversation around mental health and its real implications.

And my mom always also has said, you know, so I have type one diabetes and it's like, nobody would say you shouldn't be on. You know, you know what I mean? So some people need medications for their mental health and it's just as important, you know, you can lose your life if you're not on, on them. So I think it's important to just kind of talk about all of it.

You

[00:34:52] Corinne Foxx: that up? No, you, you did not. Um, no.

[00:35:07] Corinne Foxx: feels safe. Yeah. When I was experiencing anxiety I'm at 14, I went straight to my parents.

It was like, I'm not feeling well. I, you know, what can we do? And they didn't really have a lot of experience, but we tried a bunch of stuff and we went to therapists and then I don't know why I had that in me, but I was like, I really want to make sure that this doesn't hold me back in life. So I was doing work, but I have the workbooks in my old truck.

Bedroom of me, like in 14, like writing out my thought processes and like, you know, questioning my thoughts and are these real, and is this a real fear or not? And things like that at an early age in anyways, that's what has led me to NAMI. Obviously I grew up

Yeah,

[00:36:15] Dr. Ken Duckworth: Yeah. Well, if you're trying to ask the question, I happen to like these online screening tools. Okay. Now, if you have a primary care doctor or a nurse, do it with them, but some people can't get to a primary care doctor or a nurse, or they don't have access, or they don't have insurance. So go to mental health America, take a screening test and the screening tests are validated free.

Tens of thousands of people take them and you're like, oh, okay. My score is actually pretty high. I need to deal with this. So then the question is, can you get an evaluation? So therapists are super busy, but don't give up, right? If you have health insurance, call the number on the back of your card and say, Hey, I need help.

I'm paying you guys to give me. And they're like, oh yeah, that's right. It's supposed to help you. They will help you find a clinician. Don't take the first. No, and I know that's hard when you're depressed, you have to have some motivation for advocacy. The first thing is to, you know, find out where your, if you had a recurrence or a nuance that a screening test is a good way to do it.

If you have a primary care doctor, go talk to them, talk to them and say, you know, Right. I've been here before. I think I'm having a, B and C. So that's the first thing is to know the ballpark, find out if you've had a history of bipolar in your family that might make antidepressants a little more complicated.

Some people don't need medications, they can do it with psychotherapy and aerobic exercise, like a robotic exercise and psychotherapy is enough for some people. And I want to emphasize that, you know, this is not. You know, put, put, uh, pros of back into the water supply. The idea is you figure out what's good for you.

All interventions have side effects, figure out which ones is the best match for you. Don't be afraid to join a community of people. NAMI is a community of people. The depression and bipolar support Alliance is a community of people. One pathway to do this is to not feel alone. And you know, the NAMI book is called.

You are not alone. The idea is that millions of people are going through these. You are not profoundly abnormal out of the range of the bell curve. You're part of the human condition. These conditions are common impacting about one in five. And for some time in the pandemic, the stats look more like two in five.

[00:38:51] Natalie McMillan: thoughts. Yeah. And to the, you are not alone point. I think it also ties into the treatment plans because you're not alone in whichever one you. Find works for you. You know, if, if you think, oh, maybe I'm not doing enough or whatever, whatever works for you, somebody else is doing it.

And it's working for them also. Yeah. About half of

[00:39:32] Corinne Foxx: time.

Yeah. Well, Dr. Ken, we love you so much. We really appreciate your time. We're so looking forward to the bulk watch, we'll have you back up. Before the book comes out to talk more in depth

[00:39:46] Corinne Foxx: are a pleasure. Oh no, you're so, so great. And thank you. And I love working with you and NAMI and you guys are doing incredible work, so whatever I can do to help.

I hope you have a wonderful day.

[00:40:20] Dr. Ken Duckworth: barking dog.

I love him so much.

[00:40:49] Natalie McMillan: He's not intimidating about it. No, he's uh, he's uh, clearly a brilliant man.

Yes. And he's just very, very humble and very, very cutie pie, very

And we are going to link to a NAMI's website, which is nami.org. And then all of the other mental health resources that he mentioned. Some of them were like, uh, it was like mental health. Yeah. He'd take the quiz and everything. Have you checked out our show notes? You can find all the resources there, or if you

[00:41:33] Corinne Foxx: newsletter,

Just straight into your inbox.

[00:41:41] Natalie McMillan: that we, can you remind us what we're drinking? Yes. It's the Rosenblum bubbly. Mascato Rosa. I'm not mad at her. I am not mad at her at all either.

[00:41:56] Natalie McMillan: not. Yeah. So our Hottie this week is Michael Phelps because lesbian w an Olympian number one, but big mental health advocate.

[00:42:07] Natalie McMillan: Big mental health advocate. He's very open about having depression. And he actually has an HBO documentary called the weight of gold that highlights the mental health challenges faced by athletes during, and then especially after their careers.

That's a tough profession to have if you're, if you're, I mean, and he's Michael Phelps who has like longevity, but a lot of athletes, it's like you have prime, very short. Very short window. So Mr. Michael fell, Mr. Michael, Mr. Michael Phelps, what are we rating this? Rosé probably

[00:42:41] Corinne Foxx: it's very this,

I love it too. Is it Michael out of my, they get to Michael

[00:43:05] Natalie McMillan: we did. I like this one, she bubbly.

She's sweet. I'm like, do I pour myself another goal? I, again, linked

[00:43:15] Natalie McMillan: delicious.

[00:43:33] Natalie McMillan: a number. And it's a random question about the other person. Oh, okay. Yeah. I'm going

[00:43:41] Natalie McMillan: We've done it. Maybe two or three times. It's not one of our like super regulars, but I also, I'm just going to say that it's that good? It is that good. We, we never really do that. I don't think we've ever done. I don't think we've ever done it. This is really a star. Okay. So you're going to pick a number between one and four.

[00:44:08] Natalie McMillan: 10, 10. This one's tough too, because yup. You've you've already done that one. How

[00:44:17] Natalie McMillan: done this

[00:44:19] Natalie McMillan: I'm going to do 2020. All right. Fingers crossed. Oh, this is interesting. What's the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

Oh, I can't say this on the podcast. Really?

[00:44:40] Natalie McMillan: there's like a few

want

Okay. Okay. This is a fun one. If I were a board game, which would I

[00:45:07] Natalie McMillan: now, but accounts. Oh, no, that's not what I'm going

And I was like, I only know monopoly in life and I thought no nuts,

[00:45:23] Corinne Foxx: board's kind of chaotic.

[00:45:31] Corinne Foxx: Yes. You're also

I love sweet things, which is probably why I love them so much. Moscato. I'm just gonna take this. Okay.

[00:45:46] Natalie McMillan: Amazing. Wow. You both spot. Wow. I'm very impressed. That was a 10 out of 10. Okay. So you choose one

[00:45:55] Natalie McMillan: one through 40, 40. I'm just going to do 40.

It says if we met earlier, what would our relationship have been like

then

[00:46:14] Corinne Foxx: And I'm not sure really. I can answer this, but I'm not going

[00:46:26] Corinne Foxx: Like let's just go back. Let's circle back on the snakes thing.

Yeah, it would just be. A different dynamic.

[00:46:52] Natalie McMillan: Yes, I agree. Should we do one more or we want to wrap it up. Let's do one more. Okay. Pick a number 2323. If we were stuck on a desert island, why would I be an asset?

We would never argue. I feel like I just feel like you'd be an asset because we could just, we could like cast away, you know, build a little thing, but again, though arguments would be really good about it. The time who's going to build the raft today and then I'll do it tomorrow. So just feel like. Color line.

And if we had to die together would

[00:47:51] Corinne Foxx: 8, 38, 38. If I have one hour to spend $5,000, where would I

Hm. Let's see one hour, it's a tricky one. I don't even know it's a tricky one because it's like, Hmm, because you don't really like a lot, like big lofty. It's not like there's one thing you like a lot of little, like you would drop some coin at a nice coffee shop. You would go to Mikey's carwash, which I would like go around town.

You'd like go around doing things, but I guess just. This has nothing to do with your personality, because your personality is much more of a like little league little things that you curate. Yeah. But you did say you want this big Mac. Oh, I do monitor

[00:48:45] Natalie McMillan: I would actually get that probably.

And so that might be five grand in an hour. Oh, for sure. So I

[00:48:53] Natalie McMillan: agree. Oh, you know what? It actually make me anxious. I would hope that never happens to me. Yeah. These would not be good for her, but I will say if, if you could just go ball out in any store, I'm going to say it's paper source.

Oh my God. I lose my shit and paper. She could probably drop five grand and paper source. You should, you should get a franchise. Yeah. But up down

Go to our website. Am I doing this right? Dot com to join and we'll be back next week with another episode. Love you. Bye. Love you guys. .