Transcripts
Welcome to Animal Posse, the podcast dedicated to the
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:people and rescues making a
difference in the lives of animals.
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:Today's guest is Carmen Brothers
with Professional Pet Trackers,
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:and we are gonna discuss lost Pets.
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:Hi, Carmen.
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:How are you?
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:Carmen: I'm good, thank you.
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:Dixie: I am excited to speak
with you about Lost Pets.
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:That's a passion of mine.
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:Can you share your story behind the
founding of Professional Pet Trackers
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:and how you got started doing this?
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:Carmen: Sure.
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:So I was volunteering with a rescue.
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:I.
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:Back in, it's been so
long 20 10, 20 11 ish.
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:And they lost a dog.
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:And I got into the logistics of the
flyers and the, don't call your dog
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:and everything that goes into loss of
behavior and would a cover a lost dog?
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:And it just spiraled from there.
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:I became one of the two lost dog
coordinators for City Dogs Rescue
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:in Washington, DC and, obviously we
bought in a canine tracker and that
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:kind of thing, and it just grabbed me
and I just started going from there.
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:I guess probably in 20 15, 20
16 ish, I started running a
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:tracking dog volunteering with
a nonprofit out of Baltimore.
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:Then come 2017, I was approached by
National Geographic to do a show like
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:a docuseries on tracking lost pets.
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:And the caveat was that I would
have to quit my normal full-time
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:job with, the stability and all that
good stuff and benefits and whatnot.
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:Adults like to have and film
full-time for roughly a year and
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:kind of see where that took me.
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:So I, I did and I never went back.
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:Dixie: That's a very interesting story.
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:Carmen: It's a little different.
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:Dixie: It is.
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:Definitely.
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:When you were doing the Lost Pets with
the rescue, can you explain how that
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:was different between what you did
then and then what you're doing now?
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:Carmen: So what I did
then was essentially.
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:I guess almost delegate more, right?
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:Like I would come up with a flyer
and figure out where to post flyers
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:and have volunteers, figure out where
to send volunteers to post flyers.
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:Flyering is still probably the number one
way to get pets home because even with a
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:canine tracker, you still need sightings.
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:To go to the next phase,
which would be trapping.
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:And so I was, again, putting up, getting
flyers together, hanging 'em up to
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:volunteers and sending groups in different
places of DC to get flyers up to.
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:And then when we brought in a canine
tracker who I had, gone online and
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:found, she was able to narrow down
that search areas dramatically.
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:And guide us more on the lost
pet behavior side of things.
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:The whole lost pet circle and they tend
to stay near water and, again, they're
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:most active between desk and dawn.
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:Just some things that normally
people don't know unless
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:they've been through it before.
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:And so working with her and then having
several other lost dogs follow that while
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:I was still volunteering with City Dogs.
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:City Dogs Rescue in dc we would bring
her back in and put all those actions
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:into place and use all the different,
all the different systems we could.
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:To gather data per se, to figure out
where, Maddie or whomever had gone.
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:And then once we had a sighting or we had
a good area to put, a camera and a trap
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:at, we would go from there and do that.
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:And then essentially
live trap your lost pet.
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:So that way we.
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:Bring them to us on their terms, right?
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:If they're in a place that they
feel safe, I'd rather 'em stay there
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:in that place than have a bunch of
search parties or, even a tracking
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:dog come barely through that area
and unintentionally move your pet.
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:Dixie: What are some of the most
common misconceptions people
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:have about finding a lost pet?
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:Carmen: And again I get
where it comes from.
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:It's human instinct, right?
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:Your dog fluffy goes missing and you see
your dog fluffy running down the road.
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:What are you gonna do?
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:You're out, there goes my dog, I'm
gonna go chase my dog and call my dog
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:because at home, fluffy comes barely
into your lap when you're running
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:around or when you're calling him.
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:But once a pet's been out for a little
while, they go into what they call
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:flight mode, meaning they no longer
associate you with sight or sound.
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:It's all about scent.
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:Everything to them is predatory, right?
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:So what works at home is no longer
a thing because they need to be able
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:to get close enough to mom or dad
or whomever to be able to smell them
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:for that switch to flip back and
realize, wait a minute, that's mom.
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:That's my person, and approach you.
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:But while they're out on their
own, again, everything's predatory.
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:And if you think about it, what do
predators do when they're stalking prey?
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:They're standing upright.
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:They're making direct eye
contact and moving towards you.
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:So those are the three things that we
say you absolutely do not want to do.
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:You wanna get down on the ground you
want, don't wanna make direct eye contact,
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:and you need to let them approach you.
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:And it's a waiting game.
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:I've seen it take five minutes.
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:I've also seen it take about seven hours.
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:Dixie: Would that be the same
with cats as it is with dogs?
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:Carmen: Cats are a little different.
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:Cats are actually, cats
are a little harder.
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:While they don't actually go as far
they tend to not, you don't get the
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:sightings called in that you would
with the German Shepherd because
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:cats are gonna stay, close to a house
or under bushes and slink around.
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:And then a lot of times people will see
your cat and they even see the flyers.
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:They're gonna assume that it's an
outdoor cat or it's a feral cat
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:or community cat and what have
you, and not necessarily call you.
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:So getting the sightings for cats is just,
again, it's a whole process in itself.
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:And I find people, that call in sightings
for lost cats are actually, trying, right?
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:But ideally they take a picture
when they see the cat and text it
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:to the number on the flyer because.
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:No one knows their cat, like mom and
dad, like there's, a tuxedo cat out
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:in Richmond and how many tuxedo cats
do you think there are in Richmond?
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:And so people will be like, oh,
that's a black and white cat.
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:That must be, our missing cat.
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:And we have yet to get a picture.
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:But I can tell you the one area we're
focused on, there's probably about eight
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:tuxedo cats in that area that are not
the one and only we're looking for.
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:So without that picture or
without a sent dog to verify, it's
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:significantly harder to determine
if that's actually the missing pet.
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:Or is it just, the neighbor's cat
that's out and about during the day?
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:Dixie: I see that all the time.
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:I do run some lost pets groups,
and if it's a tabby cat, oh, that's
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:the tabby cat that's missing.
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:And it's no.
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:Clearly it's a totally
different tabby cat.
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:Carmen: Or sometimes we'll actually
get the picture and we're looking for
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:like a black cat and we get a picture
of a Persian, and I'm like, huh.
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:Thanks for calling.
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:However, and again, getting
sightings on cats is a struggle.
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:The struggle is real.
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:And so the fact that they're actually
taking the time to take the picture,
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:obviously I'm all about that.
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:Yay.
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:Thank you so much.
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:The fact it's the wrong cat and
it's the totally wrong color.
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:Yay.
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:Okay.
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:But at least you got the picture,
so you know, we're getting there.
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:It's a process.
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:Dixie: Absolutely.
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:In your experience, what are the
most crucial first steps a pet
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:owner should take immediately after
realizing their pet is missing?
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:Carmen: So if you're within
the first, hour or two, right?
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:Again, no chasing.
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:I would say the first hour two, sure.
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:Call your dog like you
normally would at home.
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:By no means am I saying get a megaphone
out there because I've seen people do
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:that and that's really never a good idea.
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:But ideally, you're gonna get something
with the owner scent out outside
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:to wherever you last saw your dog.
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:If you can get some kind of stinky
food, whether it be hamburgers,
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:bacon, throw something in some liquid
smoke and get it to the wood liner or
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:whatnot, that would be great as well.
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:And then start working on a flyer.
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:I'd say within the first 24 hours.
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:Ideally, you have roughly anywhere
from a hundred to 150 flyers
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:posted throughout the area.
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:And then make sure you're, updating your
social media, whether that be next door.
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:I find that the Neighbors by Ring app
is really useful, and a lot of people
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:don't think of that one because they're
like, oh, I don't have a ring product.
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:I can't post on there.
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:Actually, you don't need a ring
product to create a ring account.
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:You just put the address
in and you can upload it to
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:their, animal activity section.
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:And that way we're utilizing the
people in the neighborhood who
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:already have cameras out to let's
see what they get on their camera.
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:Your dog could be running up and down
the street at three in the morning,
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:but no one's there to see 'em.
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:But the ring cameras won't pick it up.
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:Dixie: Yeah, I didn't know that.
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:I thought you had to have
a subscription in order to
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:Carmen: A ring product.
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:Dixie: Yeah.
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:Carmen: No Ring product needed to
create the account and, download
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:the app and just put it out there.
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:Dixie: Yeah, that's some great advice.
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:As far as the scents, I always
hear different things about.
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:Items that you should be putting
outside because I've heard that
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:certain items that you put outside
could be attracting wildlife that
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:might not be necessarily so good.
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:So is that true?
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:Carmen: You're not gonna attract
anything from 22 miles away.
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:Anything that is going to show up on your
camera for the food, it's already there.
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:It's just we're probably not
paying such close attention to it.
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:So generally, again, the best way to
attract your dog home is number one,
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:the owner scent paired with, bacon or
so any, even if you don't have food,
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:just the liquid smoke in a spray bottle
and kinda spray the area down so it
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:smells like the barbecue is gonna help.
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:And I strongly recommend a camera
going on wherever you're trying
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:to get your dog to come back to.
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:Because if he comes back
at two in the morning.
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:You're not there to see it.
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:You know the food's gonna be
gone, but we're gonna have
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:no idea what ate the food.
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:Was it Freddie the Fox,
or was it, was it the dog?
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:So a camera is also a critical thing, and
these days they're not super expensive.
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:You can get a good cellular
trail camera on Amazon for $50.
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:Dixie: Would you suggest more
of a trail camera type thing
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:versus I guess one of the little
outdoor products that you can get?
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:Carmen: If you're at home,
either works because you're gonna
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:hopefully have access to wifi.
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:But if you're like, for instance today
I was tracking a cat at the Virginia
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:Arboretum, which there's no wifi, so
a trail camera that comes with its
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:own data plan is much more useful.
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:Sometimes People will
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:Put like flour down to try to
get paw prints and what have you,
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:Dixie: uhhuh.
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:Carmen: But I found that the flour, it
can be a quick go-to, but one little, wind
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:gust or too many foxes or or if you're
looking for a cat in particular, who's to
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:say how many cats you have in that area,
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:Dixie: Anything else that you could use
in addition to that or in place of that?
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:Carmen: In place of the flour?
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:You could try some sand.
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:Which compacts down a little, right?
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:Better so that the random gust of wind is
not gonna necessarily screw that all up.
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:But again, a picture is
worth a thousand words.
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:The cameras are really a kind of ideal,
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:The sand's really not even needed.
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:Because we're gonna get a picture.
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:Ideally, is it our cat?
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:You know the cat Rex we're looking for?
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:Or is it gonna be Ricky the raccoon?
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:We're gonna have a picture either way.
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:Dixie: As far as placing the camera,
should you be placing it out of the
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:door You think that they went out of?
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:Carmen: It depends on where you're at.
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:If you're in New York City or
something like that, it's gonna be
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:strategically, significantly harder.
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:To find a good place to put that camera.
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:But if you're, in Virginia, for
instance, about where I am, then if
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:your dog ran out the back door of the
front door and into the woods, I'd
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:place it more facing the wood line.
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:Dixie: Now, what about the average
time a it takes to find a lost pet?
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:Is there an average time?
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:Carmen: It
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:depends on the pet and the terrain and
the circumstances, oddly enough, cats
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:can take a little longer than dogs do.
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:Just again, because you're not
getting the sightings as quickly as
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:you would be for the tabby cat as
you would be for the German Shepherd.
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:It depends on if, do they go missing
from someplace other than home
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:or do they go missing from home?
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:Are they missing in a state
park or are they missing from,
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:the groomers type of thing.
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:I would say on average for a dog,
anywhere from one to four weeks.
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:And for a cat, for an indoor only
cat, I would say one to three weeks.
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:As long as they're missing from
home and haven't been displaced.
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:For instance, the cat I do
today at the Arboretum, they're
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:what, 45 minutes from home.
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:He's an indoor only cat who's
now been displaced totally out
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:of his elements into the wild.
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:And the thing with this cat is
that number one, there's gonna be
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:nobody there to see them, right?
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:Because it's the arboretum.
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:So the odds of somebody seeing a cat
during the day when they're walking
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:around or so to none, he's probably
gonna be most active at night.
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:So we do have a couple cameras
placed, but we're also gonna be
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:competing with anything that Stanley
is going to catch on his own.
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:We're just hoping that my mackerel and
sardines is way more attractive than, any
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:kind of birds or chipmunks or whatever
he may be finding to eat by himself.
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:Dixie: For the lost cats, and let's
say indoor only cats i'm in agreement
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:of course with the whole scent thing.
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:So I always tell people if it's an
indoor only cat, chances are that
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:cat is very close by just hiding
somewhere in a really safe hiding spot.
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:And I always tell people to just
crack open their front door.
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:And I find like a lot of the times
at when they do that, they'll either
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:start seeing the cat or the cat even
sometimes runs back in the house.
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:Carmen: And I do the same thing.
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:And I've had it work a lot actually,
even after a week or two, sometimes the
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:cat finds its way home and comes right
back into the window that it left from.
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:Dixie: Yeah.
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:And I found that out by accident actually.
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:Like I always heard the thing about
putting something on your porch,
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:say your shoes or dirty laundry
so that they could smell it.
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:When my cat got out we just happened to
open the front door and when we opened
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:the front door, like within like maybe
five minutes, he ran right back in.
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:Carmen: Oh, that's perfect.
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:Dixie: At that time, that's when I
realized, oh leaving the front door open.
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:I think that's actually like a thing,
because cat behavior is they go out there,
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:they find someplace to hide and they're
just hiding, looking around, waiting.
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:I know people always say, go out there,
shake the treat jars and stuff like that.
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:My experience with cats is
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:you just have to let 'em alone and let
'em come to you opening the door, and
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:a lot of the times they run back in.
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:Carmen: I agree.
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:And the thing with lost pets that
a lot of people don't understand
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:for say, and again, 'cause it
goes against, human nature, right?
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:Once you start searching actively for a
lost pet, like literally beating bushes
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:and stuff like that, or if everybody
goes tromping through the woods and
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:that kind of thing, you actually run the
risk of moving your pet and pushing your
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:pet out of that immediate area, right?
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:Because.
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:Again, they're somewhere that,
where they feel safe and whatnot.
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:As soon as you invade that space,
they are not taking the time to
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:realize, oh wait, that's mom.
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:They're just saying Uhoh.
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:Something's here.
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:Predator.
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:Predator, run.
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:And so they, they move.
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:And then once they associate that
area with fear, they're actually
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:less likely to return to that
area than they would have before.
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:Dixie: That makes a lot of sense.
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:It really does.
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:Carmen: And so a lot of times on the
trapping side of things, when you'll
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:see trappers like, please don't chase,
please don't chase, please don't chase.
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:And unfortunately, everybody
thinks that they can go get the
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:dog or the cat or whatnot, and
they wanna play the hero card.
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:And literally it's like pulling teeth,
trying to get people to stay away
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:and don't chase, just let the dog be.
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:But again, once you chase that dog.
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:All the trapping efforts
start from scratch again.
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:'cause now they've shifted areas, right?
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:So now we have to find the new area
and we have to, sometimes recondition
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:for the trapping portion of it.
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:And it just makes it so
much more challenging.
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:Dixie: You did mention that it is harder
to do cats because people will see a
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:cat outside and when they see the cat
outside, they automatically assume it's
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:an outside cat or an inside outside cat.
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:So it's not lost.
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:And I see that a lot as well.
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:So are there any tips you can give
people that if they see a cat,
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:which might indicate that cat is
actually a lost cat, that may be an
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:indoor only cat or a displaced cat?
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:Carmen: Hopefully
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:the goal would be for them to
see, oh look, lost cat flyer.
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:Oh, wait a minute, here's
a cat and lost cat flyer.
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:So it really drives that point home.
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:I would say that, if they see a cat take
a picture of the cat because if they
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:don't know that cat the flyers might go
up tomorrow or the following day, but
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:then they can say, oh, wait a minute.
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:I saw this cat here on,
Thursday type of thing.
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:Or if they are, rescue people and
what have you, they can obviously
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:go on Facebook and search kind
of their local lost pet pages.
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:I realize a lot of people these days are
somewhat self-absorbed, so that's asking
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:a lot, which is why I say, maybe just
take a picture and see if the flyers
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:pop up in a day or two, type of thing.
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:Dixie: Okay, great advice.
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:I,
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:Carmen: the flyers are just
a critical thing, right?
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:Because without the flyers even,
even in like the Northern Virginia
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:area for instance, you'll see an
off leash dog who's just, people
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:let them roam type of thing.
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:So it could really be the neighbor's dog,
but could it be a lost dog also maybe, and
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:you don't see the flyers or what have you.
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:And so it's, the flyers make
everybody in that community aware.
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:And the flyers are likely the
most tedious process of all.
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:And it's what I get the most pushback
on, is getting the flyers up to
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:the areas they need to be up at.
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:Having the, an effective flyer is also
super important sometimes, and some of,
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:these, social media platforms or whatever,
will, just design a flyer for you.
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:Okay, great.
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:I don't need to know what Fluffy eats
every night for dinner and what time he
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:eats and his favorite color and does he
do this and that, and blah, blah, blah.
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:All I need is Lost dog or lost cat.
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:Big picture.
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:Do not chase big phone number.
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:That's it.
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:I don't even want the name on there.
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:If somebody's walking around and they're
like out for their afternoon jog, right?
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:And you see all these flyers saying,
lost dog, fluffy, what's your
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:gut instinct telling you to do?
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:Oh wait, that's a dog fluffy.
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:And you start calling for the
dog, and that then scares the dog
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:and pushes the dog further away.
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:But if they don't know the name, what
action item do they have left to do?
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:Okay, great.
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:They'll take a picture and that
way they can text it to the number.
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:Dixie: That's some good advice.
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:'cause I do see flyers too, that you
actually have to stop and read 'em,
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:or it's it'll be so much wording
in a very tiny little photo of an
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:animal, and it's make that bigger.
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:Carmen: And at that point,
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:again, who's actually gonna stop to
necessarily, other than then pet people or
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:rescue people, your average person who's
coming home from work or just picking kids
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:up from school or whatever, they're not
stopping to take a picture of that flyer.
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:They don't even know is it, are they
advertising a yard sale where they're
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:gonna have, stuffed pets for sale?
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:Who knows?
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:So if it's not super clear.
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:By the time I get there, I redid the
flyer for them and then I'm so not
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:popular when I'm like, Hey, let's go
replace all of these type of thing.
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:I encourage people to get flyers
up to the entrance and exits of
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:churches because that's a different
demographic of people, right?
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:They're not on Facebook.
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:They're not on social media,
and if they are out driving,
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:they might not be stopping and
seeing what's on the stop sign.
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:They're just trying to get from
point A to B, but they go to church.
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:Dixie: Great advice.
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:When should people call in a
professional pet tracker like you?
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:Carmen: It probably depends, for instance,
when people call me, if they've had a lot
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:of the sightings and they don't know what
to do or where to turn or how to get,
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:fluffy home, I'm relatively well networked
to whereas I can get them in touch with
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:a qualified trapper for their area.
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:I just got back from Maine.
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:I was in New Hampshire, Vermont, and
then New York on my way home to Virginia.
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:So I was gone like, what?
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:Nine days?
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:I'm not.
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:In one location for long enough to
actually assist with the trapping.
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:I can, obviously, virtually consult
and whatnot like the cats for instance.
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:I can walk people how to
trap cats all day long.
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:But for the dogs, again, that's like
a five, $600 very large trap that you
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:need to acquire and get out, and it just
helps to have somebody who's physically
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:there, boots on the ground because.
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:A dog can say, Nope, I don't
wanna do the kennel trap.
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:I, and you have to switch
it to a Missy trap.
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:I had one dog out in King George,
Virginia for 500 and some odd days.
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:We tracked once we had that dog
on camera almost every other night
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:until we started switching up traps.
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:'cause she wouldn't go into box trap.
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:We tried a Missy Trap.
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:We would build up panel by panel.
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:She had nothing to do with that.
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:So we actually had to have
my friend Kevin drive up from
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:North Carolina with a drop net.
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:Meaning we had to clear utilities and
get the waterline cleared and all of
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:that good stuff and put that up and
then condition her to go under that.
414
:And it took a while.
415
:So again, it's, having a qualified
trapper in your area is a big plus,
416
:or sometimes somebody who at least,
you know, within an hour who can
417
:drive and help you with equipment.
418
:Even if I could, I drive
a Toyota Highlander.
419
:I had a four runner before I can
either bring tracking dogs or a trap.
420
:And I can pretty much guarantee the
majority of the time I'm called in
421
:and actually physically go somewhere.
422
:They're gonna want the
tracking dogs and not the trap.
423
:Dixie: The net that you were talking
about, does that just go up and then
424
:just fall directly on top of the dog?
425
:Is that how that works?
426
:Carmen: Yeah, it's like almost
a soccer field size net.
427
:Like a soccer, like a goal?
428
:Type of net.
429
:And it goes on top of these poles
and it's released by magnets.
430
:And it's, you have a live camera
from different angles on the dog.
431
:'cause you gotta be there quick.
432
:Because you don't want
the dog to hurt himself.
433
:But yes, that's essentially what it is.
434
:Now, some dogs won't enter, won't walk
through thresholds no matter how big.
435
:It's just a thing.
436
:So when the Missy Trap won't
work, you're left huh, okay.
437
:Now what?
438
:And so then we typically go to a drop net.
439
:Dixie: That's interesting.
440
:So can you tell us a little
bit about your tracking dogs?
441
:Carmen: Sure.
442
:So I'm gonna say I have 3.5.
443
:, The dog I started with magic.
444
:She's a yellow lab and she's
living her best life of
445
:retirement with my mom right now.
446
:She's probably 12 ish, I would say.
447
:And I'll still take around to
like local cat stuff or just, like
448
:a hide and seek type of thing.
449
:She still loves the game, but
she has problems getting in and
450
:outta the back of the truck.
451
:It's harder on her hips and whatnot.
452
:Then I have a German Shepherd
named Rose who is six.
453
:I have a, and this is what
kind of gets people every time.
454
:I have a rat terrier named Trix,
who is five, and she's phenomenal.
455
:She's my heart surface girl.
456
:She's, so she's 15 pounds.
457
:So she's little.
458
:She's good for the cats 'cause
she can get into places that,
459
:my shepherd and my labs cannot.
460
:And then my newest addition
is Finley and he will be two
461
:in July and he's a black lab.
462
:Dixie: How does that process work
with using the tracking dogs?
463
:Can you tell us how they go
out and actually find the pets?
464
:Carmen: So it's important to
remember that, again, I'm not
465
:necessarily walking up on your dog.
466
:And while it has happened, I'd
say I've had maybe, I don't
467
:know, 12 to 15 since I started.
468
:We call them walkup finds.
469
:And at 12 to 15 I've probably had
seven to eight like captures from
470
:being out on the track, if you will.
471
:We take a scent item, whether that be a
bed, a blanket, harness a sweater, I've
472
:used the dog's, toothbrush, whatever.
473
:And then we literally,
track your lost pet.
474
:So with that said, we're methodically
chasing essentially, right?
475
:So once my dogs start to give
me a proximity alert, depending
476
:on where we're at and what's
going on, I generally pull back.
477
:We were in Maine, where were we?
478
:It was Corinth, Maine, about a week ago.
479
:And it was actually with Finley
and I was partnering with a thermal
480
:drone operator up there, which has
a lot of benefits to it as well.
481
:Because we were tracking and I was just
telling the owner, Christie, I'm like,
482
:you'll notice we're moving faster.
483
:I was like, the sun's getting
stronger and stronger.
484
:And then, Rob came over the
radio and was like, Hey, I've got
485
:Mavis 300 feet in front of you.
486
:So again, that's amazing
information to have, right?
487
:So that way we were able to
know what we were walking
488
:into before we walked into it.
489
:So I had, I put Finley back up in the car.
490
:We coached Christie on calming signals.
491
:I gave her some rotisserie chicken
in a bag, a slip lead, and sent her,
492
:literally directed her while having
her on FaceTime and on the radio
493
:with the drone as to where Mavis was.
494
:She sat there probably, I
don't know, she probably 45
495
:minutes to an hour in the rain.
496
:Trying to use calming
signals and what have you.
497
:And Mavis moved, bolted right past her.
498
:Didn't even take a second to
give it a chance to smell.
499
:Wait a minute, that's mom.
500
:So as disheartening as that is to have her
run right past you, we, I mean there was
501
:a lot of important things that day, right?
502
:Like number one, Mavis mom got
eyes on Mavis for the first time.
503
:So there's a great big relief there.
504
:'cause essentially that's proof of life.
505
:And I can tell you all day long
we're getting sightings or whatever.
506
:But until you actually
put eyes on your dog.
507
:It's harder to, it's harder
for that relief to sit in.
508
:Secondly, now we know where we're
trapping and putting cameras up at.
509
:And so after that we called it
for the tracking because we're
510
:methodically chasing, right?
511
:And I don't wanna continue to
chase and scare her from the area.
512
:So let's go to the trapping.
513
:Let's get the cameras out in the
trap and see where we go with that.
514
:And we have, maybe this might be a
little bit of a more challenging.
515
:Trap, if you will.
516
:She seems to have no desire to go
in this box trap, no matter what
517
:food I put in it, whether it's ham,
beef, liver, tripe, barbecue, bacon,
518
:she wants nothing to do with it.
519
:So we're looking at probably having
to get a Missy trap up there for her.
520
:So is she still out on the run then?
521
:We get her on camera every night.
522
:She's still in the same location.
523
:She just has no desire
to go in this box trap.
524
:And it's one of the six
foot extra large ones.
525
:And so it's not a size thing.
526
:I think it's just the being
contained thing, right?
527
:So now we're gonna start
conditioning for a Missy.
528
:I'm gonna a trap and start
putting the kennel panels up and
529
:making sure, we'll probably do
it a little slower than typical.
530
:We'll probably start
with the three panels.
531
:And does she come back and eat still?
532
:Okay.
533
:Yes.
534
:Great.
535
:Let's do the next three.
536
:Okay.
537
:She's still there.
538
:Awesome.
539
:Let's finish it up and go from there.
540
:Dixie: I think there two
is a misconception with the
541
:tracking dogs, because I see.
542
:People sometimes commenting, oh,
I'm gonna get a tracking dog.
543
:And I think that they think that,
oh, they're gonna get a tracking dog.
544
:Carmen: I'm gonna walk
545
:up and hand you your pet.
546
:Dixie: That's what I was gonna say.
547
:There is a process to it.
548
:So you get the tracking dog
549
:Carmen: oh yes.
550
:Dixie: You get the tracking dog.
551
:You don't wanna chase the dog.
552
:So then at that point you have to trap it.
553
:Carmen: Correct.
554
:Now the drones are a relatively
new thing with lost pets, and it's
555
:an amazing, it's amazing, right?
556
:People have to understand that.
557
:Let's say you have a new
dog, new rescue dog, right?
558
:And you've had the dog two hours
putting a drone up in the air.
559
:While yes, you might get eyes
on the dog, which is amazing.
560
:Even like the calming signals will
likely not work at that point.
561
:'cause this dog does not know you.
562
:This dog came from, Texas and
you're in, you're in Massachusetts,
563
:right?
564
:There's nothing familiar.
565
:So even having, the drone say,
yes, here's the coordinates.
566
:I'm gonna walk you in,
and so forth and so on.
567
:Could it work?
568
:Okay, sure.
569
:Is it likely to work, eh.
570
:Maybe, if you've got a little bit of
background on the dog, was it an owner
571
:surrender or was it out on the streets
of Texas by himself for, two years?
572
:The dog who's been on the street
for two years is gonna be much less
573
:likely to trust anybody or anything.
574
:I.
575
:You're probably gonna wanna do
more trapping than like a common
576
:signals hand capture approach.
577
:And I don't think people realize that, if
a drone goes up, yes, it can be immediate
578
:gratification, which is remarkable.
579
:And that's what everybody wants.
580
:If the drone goes up and sees nothing
you're still left with nothing,
581
:You don't have a direction of travel.
582
:You have, nothing to go off of per se.
583
:And that doesn't necessarily mean your
dog's not in that area of the drone
584
:flew, but could your dog be under,
something or hidden somehow in a way
585
:that, that the thermal is not picking up?
586
:Possibly.
587
:But again, you're not gonna know
that the thermal drones offer that
588
:immediate gratification result, whereas
a tracking dog odds are you're gonna
589
:have to do a little bit of work.
590
:It's gonna be the flyers and the
feeding stations, and it's gonna
591
:be, there's, there needs to be
some effort put forth by the owner,
592
:It's not necessarily this quick
turnaround type, one done, here's Carmen
593
:great and I'm showing up with my leash
or my carrier and my whatever, and
594
:my harness, and let's go get my dog.
595
:And I've shown up and had people
think that no matter how many times
596
:you tell them or no many, how many
times you reiterated it in any kind
597
:of contract or anything, they still
have that stuck in their mind.
598
:I still try to break it down yes, could
that happen And that would be amazing.
599
:Is it likely not really.
600
:Again, your dog's gonna sense me and
my dog coming into whatever little
601
:bubble of safety they've created for
themselves way before we get eyes on 'em.
602
:Dixie: With a thermal drone , do you
have to worry about picking up other
603
:animals that might not be yours?
604
:Carmen: Of course, yes.
605
:But ideally, at least the drone
operators I've worked with can
606
:tell me, oh, is that a coyote?
607
:Yes.
608
:Is it a rabbit?
609
:Yes, it does.
610
:A squirrel also.
611
:Yes.
612
:We managed to get several porcupines
in a tree while we were in Maine.
613
:So they can tell us if it's,
our target animal or not.
614
:And with it.
615
:That also helps me and my dogs because
I don't really wanna walk into the
616
:coyote den, if there's a coyote 300
feet to my right, I'd like to know
617
:that before I walk a lot type of thing.
618
:Dixie: So something else that I see
a lot of is people wanting to use the
619
:thermal drones in like urban areas.
620
:Do people use them or is that gonna
be like almost pointless because
621
:you're gonna pick up so many
other dogs or so many other cats.
622
:Carmen: A thermal drone for a cat for
starters is likely not the best bet
623
:anyways because your cat's probably hiding
underneath a porch or a shed or something
624
:along those lines to whereas a thermals
likely not going to pick it up anyways.
625
:Could it maybe, but that's a hail Mary.
626
:As far as the open areas go.
627
:A lot of the more populated areas.
628
:For instance, a lot of the areas right
around DC or Chicago and a hundred
629
:percent New York City are no fly zones.
630
:So you're not gonna be able to get
a thermal drone up there anyways.
631
:Any kinda military base and what
have you, it's gonna be no fly zones
632
:and you can apply for the exemption
to get a drone up, but that's gonna
633
:also take you three to four days.
634
:And there's no guarantee.
635
:And so again, it's, the immediate
gratification sounds amazing.
636
:When you hear it, and I also would
like to be like, sure, whatever.
637
:Not a problem.
638
:Come on.
639
:1:00 AM whatever time you
need to be here, let's do it.
640
:But people just need to take a
second and realize, okay, so if
641
:I don't see my dog now, what?
642
:Whereas at least if you're pairing
the tracking dog in the drone,
643
:the tracking dog's still gonna
give you that direction of travel.
644
:You're still gonna have an action
plan on which way the dog went
645
:and where the dog will likely go
next based on lost pet behavior.
646
:Ideally, and at least the way I work
things, is that once I get an area,
647
:I actually go outside of that area
and create a perimeter of what I call
648
:negatives or locations with no scent.
649
:Just doubling down on the fact I
didn't miss a turn, and making sure
650
:that the area I have is accurate.
651
:Because again, at the end of the
day, your dog can miss a turn.
652
:, But all of my negatives I tell people
are also probable positives, meaning
653
:likely they passive travel, so your
animal's gonna continue to move.
654
:Just 'cause he's not here right now does
not mean he won't be here in two days.
655
:And so it helps them understand
the process of where your dog's
656
:gonna go next type of thing.
657
:Dixie: For people who aren't
using the tracking dogs and
658
:aren't using the thermal drones
659
:Carmen: FLYER FLYER FLYER
660
:Dixie: But as far
661
:as distance because I will
see something where, people
662
:are like, oh, my dog was lost.
663
:In this general area, but dogs can just
keep running to get into another area.
664
:The cats can hitch a ride or cats
can get picked up and get dumped.
665
:As far as travel goes, I guess
for a dog, for an animal that's
666
:just gonna be running, how far
can a dog travel in one day?
667
:Carmen: So typically a dog will
go three to five miles a day.
668
:Ideally that's a circle or a triangle.
669
:There's some kind of pattern and or
shape to where they're going with
670
:that said, if they get on power
lines, train tracks, creek beds, that
671
:kind of thing, that can push them
significantly further out, like almost
672
:in a straight line, significantly faster.
673
:I generally tell people if they have
the flyers up for that three to five
674
:mile radius, let's, you know it's been
48 hours with no sightings or anything,
675
:let's go another three miles out.
676
:Then if you wait another, 48 hours still
nothing, let's go another three miles
677
:out because any of those things, it's
like a little doggy highway, right?
678
:They can hop on those power lines
and no one's gonna see them and they
679
:can go straight for quite some time.
680
:Maybe popping off here and there, or
neighborhoods for like trash night
681
:or something exciting like that.
682
:But I had, I've had dogs
go 44 miles in 13 days.
683
:On power lines.
684
:I had now, given this wasn't
power lines, but I did have an
685
:Alaskan sled dog that had just
retired, go 27 miles in four days.
686
:But again, that's kinda what
that dog was bred to do, right?
687
:There was no denying that
it was gonna be a runner.
688
:It just, again, knowing your dog's
personality and the breed especially
689
:also helps, obviously the Alaskan sled
dogs are bred to, to run in significant
690
:distances significantly quickly.
691
:I find your huskies and your
shepherds can also be runners.
692
:The whippets and greyhounds also runners.
693
:I find that boxers tend to stay
closer and or circle back at some
694
:point in time, more so than some
of the other breeds, oddly enough.
695
:The smaller dogs, people like to discount
them thinking they're not gonna go
696
:super far, but they're the spunky ones
that have that, have that energy and
697
:they'll up and go in a heartbeat too.
698
:Dixie: Yeah, and I know people also
tend to lose hope like after a week
699
:or so and they tend to give up.
700
:I always tell people one of the things
that you shouldn't do is give up hope.
701
:I know by me there was a situation
where somebody's cat got out
702
:their carrier broke as they were
bringing them into a vet clinic.
703
:And it happened to be the vet clinic was
caddy corner to the back of my business.
704
:So I put a trap out just hoping
that I might catch the cat.
705
:I caught the cat, it took me three
months, but I did catch the cat.
706
:Carmen: And that's not abnormal.
707
:I am actually working on a case
where that exact same thing happened.
708
:And the Pennsylvania, New York
border, and it's been, I think
709
:we're going on six weeks now.
710
:We had one sighting, which was accurate.
711
:We are not, for some reason, people
just don't take the pictures that we
712
:ask them to take, but that's okay.
713
:I was up there, I think.
714
:The week three to track and we got a good
track and I stopped back through there on
715
:my way home from Maine and tracked again.
716
:And the cat hasn't gone further.
717
:The cat just went across the street and
essentially is doing the same distance
718
:just on the other side of the road.
719
:Now we have new cameras in
place and that kind of thing.
720
:But again, we hit, the one side we have
had was back at the vet point of loss.
721
:But people get frustrated, like you
said, and tend to give up too soon
722
:because it's been a week, it's been
two weeks and we've got nothing.
723
:And especially with cats, I would
not discount that for anything.
724
:I would leave those cameras out there for
21 to 28 days 'cause they do circle back.
725
:It can just take them a little longer.
726
:Dixie: And like you said, a camera's
gonna be the only way that you're
727
:gonna get the definitive proof too.
728
:Another subject I'd like to touch on
a little bit that I've seen lately is
729
:scams where people will tell people
730
:Carmen: yes,
731
:Dixie: that they've found their
pet and they'll say, Hey, text me.
732
:And it can involve all kinds of different
things actually, but can you explain some
733
:of the scams you might be familiar with?
734
:Carmen: Sure.
735
:It's a whole bunch of them because
people just get super creative.
736
:I think it started off
with text me a Google Code.
737
:That was like three years ago,
four years I guess, when the
738
:scams really started kicking in.
739
:I haven't seen so many of those recently.
740
:Now it's more first of all you have
people impersonating legitimate
741
:organizations, whether it be pet trackers
or drone operators or what have you.
742
:It's sad.
743
:Everyone tags these fake pages
on Facebook and you get these
744
:desperate pet owners who don't.
745
:Do the homework , they're saying
they're a hundred percent guarantee
746
:and blah, blah, blah, blah.
747
:And first of all, that should
be the first big red flag.
748
:If I say I'm a hundred percent
guaranteeing that I'm gonna find your
749
:pet and hand 'em to you at the end
of the day, there, there's no way.
750
:We're dealing with a living thing
that has its own personality, right?
751
:That's like me trying to say,
a hundred percent I'm gonna be
752
:able to do this with this person.
753
:No questions asked, whatever.
754
:There's just no way to predict that.
755
:I've had people.
756
:recently get spoof called, so
when somebody calls their phone,
757
:because again, you've got flyers
up, you're on social media.
758
:People already know the area your pet's
lost in and they have your phone number so
759
:they can just Google, let's say, I don't
know, like Palm Beach, Florida, right?
760
:What's the emergency vet
closest to Palm Beach, Florida?
761
:They'll call you and your
caller ID is going to show up
762
:with, Palm Beach Emergency Vet.
763
:So really you have no reason to think
it's not Palm Beach Emergency Vet, right?
764
:'cause that's what's coming
up on your caller id.
765
:And they're gonna call you at like
midnight 1:00 AM or whenever and say,
766
:Hey, you know your dog was hit by a car.
767
:I need your credit card number for $3,000.
768
:We're going into surgery right
now, or your dog's gonna die.
769
:So number one, they're taking advantage
of you at when you're most vulnerable.
770
:What's missing?
771
:Two, they're getting you when
your guards down likely late at
772
:night or early in the morning.
773
:So you maybe you were
sleeping, that kind of thing.
774
:So you're not necessarily
thinking straight 3.
775
:They're calling from an organization
or business or vet or whatever
776
:that you are familiar with.
777
:That is close to you,
and it's very probable.
778
:Your dog could have been hit by a
car and taken that you don't know.
779
:And so , they're playing on all
those different emotions and they're
780
:taking all those things and factored
into the scam, and people will give
781
:them $5,000 that way, and they get
to the vet and, oh, wait a minute.
782
:Nope, you don't have fluffy here huh.
783
:I find that no vet, no animal control,
nobody like that is necessarily gonna ask
784
:you for money like that over the phone.
785
:They're gonna say, Hey,
fluffy was hit by a car.
786
:We need you here.
787
:Like right now.
788
:No.
789
:And if you are unsure, the best
thing you can do is hang up.
790
:Google the organization and call
them back because if they were
791
:spoof calling you, you're actually
gonna get the correct organization
792
:when you call that number back.
793
:People actually somewhat recently,
and it was a group in Florida
794
:that , got scammed on there and they
had literally cloned my website.
795
:So when you clicked on it had all the
same colors, all the same pictures, except
796
:they've added on like a drone service.
797
:And they added on a bunch of like
cash app this or Venmo this and all
798
:these different like payment, methods.
799
:They changed the phone number, but they
weren't super duper thorough with it.
800
:If you click on the link to
the National Geographic thing,
801
:you still get the real me.
802
:And at the bottom of some of the pages,
they didn't take out the correct number.
803
:So ideally someone catches
that, but again, it looks
804
:just like my normal website.
805
:Like they did a remarkably good job
and they just, copy and paste it.
806
:some different pictures in there.
807
:I've had people say that they work for
professional pet checkers on Facebook
808
:and try to scan people that way.
809
:I had somebody call me from
Norman, Oklahoma asking me
810
:why Dave hadn't arrived yet.
811
:And I'm like okay,
who's Dave for starters?
812
:And apparently someone had
said they were calling for my
813
:organization, their name was Dave.
814
:They were coming out until they
found their dog to Oklahoma.
815
:And I think it was a total of $300.
816
:And I was gonna show up
with my 31 tracking dogs.
817
:Dixie: Oh wow.
818
:Carmen: Several things there.
819
:Number one, I'm based outta Virginia
and so if I'm coming to Norman,
820
:Oklahoma for $300, then wow.
821
:That's.
822
:Remarkably kind of me and
two, what am I tracking?
823
:'cause I apparently, I have
a tractor trailer of dogs.
824
:So if I'm not putting up dog
poop or trainee or, like feeding,
825
:like that's a lot of dogs.
826
:It's unfortunate that they've
gotten so good at this, but
827
:just you gotta do your homework.
828
:Whether that be asking for a variety
of different references or, FaceTiming
829
:with the person if you Google me, you're
gonna come up with Carmen Brothers
830
:and you're gonna see a picture of me.
831
:You're gonna be able to see, again, the
National Geographic Show is a big one.
832
:I can send you links to that
and I promised you I don't
833
:have a scammer in nat geo.
834
:So that way you can again verify you're
talking to the real person, right?
835
:It's just people are so quick to click,
pay whatever these days . Just, again,
836
:I can just say, do your homework and
if you think it's a scam or you think
837
:it's too good to be true, it likely is.
838
:Dixie: They're very creative.
839
:Carmen: Just my website alone I don't even
know how to report that or shut that down.
840
:Because anybody can buy a domain name
and put anything they want on it.
841
:What do I do with that at that point?
842
:So at this point, I just literally
switched up my entire website.
843
:So at least it looks different.
844
:Again, there's only so much
prevention and, trying to.
845
:Make things separate yourself
per se, that you can do.
846
:Dixie: Yeah.
847
:And I know like on the pages that
I admin for, we will see constantly
848
:comments, oh, contact such and such pet
trackers, we're gonna get your pet home.
849
:Carmen: Yeah.
850
:All the things and these
different ones, and it's just.
851
:It's disgusting.
852
:But it makes it harder for
people to get legitimate help.
853
:Dixie: It does, right?
854
:Absolutely.
855
:' Carmen: cause I'll get sent something
I saw this, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
856
:And so I'll, I've got like a jpeg with,
lost Cat tips, lost dog tips, and then, my
857
:number at the bottom of it, or I send 'em
directly to my Facebook page or whatever.
858
:But.
859
:If you're seeing scam, scammer legitimate,
scammer, scammer, it's, who knows, right?
860
:It's almost impossible to know who
you can trust and who you can't.
861
:Dixie: Yeah it's scary because, it is
when people are the most vulnerable,
862
:and they just wanna get their pets home
863
:Carmen: right?
864
:Dixie: What are some preventative measures
pet owners can take to reduce the risk of
865
:their pet getting lost in the first place?
866
:Carmen: I can't emphasize the
microchipping enough, especially for cats.
867
:The Tabby cats tend to look the same.
868
:And if your cat's out for four to six
weeks, again the coat could be different
869
:'cause their diet's been different.
870
:It's just, a microchip is something that a
lot of people like, oh, I've got an indoor
871
:cat, he's never gonna go out anywhere.
872
:I don't need to do that.
873
:Yeah maybe, yeah, please do.
874
:Just in case.
875
:'cause you never know and
just be smart about it, right?
876
:If your dog doesn't have great recall,
or even if your dog does have great
877
:recall, a leash is a very cheap buy.
878
:You can get 'em on Amazon super cheap, use
them, put identification on the collars
879
:just, hey, it's out there all the time.
880
:If you don't have a fence,
keep your dog on a line.
881
:If you know your dog is gonna chase
the deer, then maybe don't have
882
:an invisible fence, but have a
rear fence and that kind of thing.
883
:Just prevent, if it's a holiday you're
planning on having people over, so maybe,
884
:put your dogs in the bedroom or something.
885
:That way they're not stressed and
there's no risk of people leaving
886
:doors open and that kind of stuff.
887
:I would say for the pet
sitters in particular.
888
:There's a couple different platforms
out there, some better than the others.
889
:However, it's great to have a personal
relationship with your pet sitter, right?
890
:Don't just let you know Joe Schmo from
that you booked online and I've never met
891
:come walk Fluffy because we don't know.
892
:Fluffy doesn't know that person.
893
:And you don't want the pet sitter who's
gonna go, chase your pet for five blocks
894
:if the leaf does drop type of thing.
895
:And if nothing else, attempt to
have a good scent item for all
896
:the pets in your house to make
people like my lives much easier.
897
:If you have nine cats and three
of 'em are indoor outdoor, and the
898
:others are indoor only, and they
all share the same everything.
899
:If I come out there and one's gone
missing, or two gone missing, one came
900
:back, and so forth and so on, there is
no way for me to say, okay, I'm a hundred
901
:percent sure I'm tracking the correct
cat if the scent items contaminated.
902
:Dixie: Before we end this call, is there
anything else that you would like to add?
903
:Carmen: Just it can happen to anybody,
and again, a lot of it has to do
904
:with not the fact that it happened.
905
:I find , people think they're getting
judged for losing their dog or losing
906
:their cat, and no one's judging.
907
:It's more or less what you do
to get your cat or dog home.
908
:Dixie: Absolutely.
909
:And it can happen to anyone.
910
:I know there are some people that
are careless and they do definitely
911
:have those situations, but it could
be, you think your door is shut and
912
:your door accidentally pops open,
913
:Carmen: right?
914
:Or the, the landscaper didn't
lock the gate or whatever.
915
:It's my biggest pet peeve is
seeing on like the Facebook pages.
916
:My escape artist is at it again.
917
:Okay, there's that.
918
:Get a GPS collar, right?
919
:The GPS collar is likely way cheaper
than I am or a thermal drone is.
920
:Take that precaution if you know
the Fluffy likes to run, do what
921
:you can do, not make him run or
keep track of where he is at.
922
:Dixie: You said you had some
resources for some tips.
923
:Where can people find those?
924
:Carmen: So you can go to my website,
which is professional pet trackers.com.
925
:And there are resources,
the page resources.
926
:Dixie: Great.
927
:Thank you so much for taking
the time to speak with me today.
928
:Carmen: Of course.
929
:Thank you.
930
:Dixie: All right.
931
:Bye
932
:And that's all the time we
have for today's episode.
933
:If you are in animal rescue, or if
you know someone that has a story that
934
:should be told, please contact us.
935
:We would love to have
you or them on the show
936
:. Thanks for listening, and please
join us next week as we continue to
937
:explore the world of animal rescue.
